I realize I got myself in this current position by assuming responsibility for everything my spouse left undone.
So, now in this grown-up world of no parenting my husband, what do I do? Literally, what are the steps. I cook on my agreed upon day. My spouse forgets his day. I cook on my agreed upon day. My spouse forgets his day. Right now, I cook if I want. Otherwise, it is every man for himself. You find it, you can eat it.
That just seems so wrong. And feels very lopsided for me. He doesn't care. I do. Now what steps do I take for this situation. And what about the grocery shopping?
I guess some may think this is humorous. It really sorta is, no doubt about it. Grown people bickering over chores. The good news we no longer talk about it. No arguing. No snide comments. But, this just ain't right. I just need some lead on how to adjust it all.
Liz
Deleted post
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Deleted post
Here's my suggestion: you
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Here's my suggestion: you cook on your day, for yourself, if you feel like it. On his day, you do the same (cook for yourself, if you feel like it). Buy groceries for yourself; if he uses them, tell him they're yours, and he should buy his own or buy for the both of you. By the way, I understand that this is not an ideal solution. In fact, it has many negatives. But you can't make your husband care and you can't force him to do things he doesn't want to do. So the choices are to do something different than what you're doing or to become more accepting of what he's doing. Becoming more accepting might or might not be easier than changing what you're doing.
Unfortunately, I accepted my way to where I currently sit
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
I have accepted things the way they are. So I want to change them, bit by bit - meaning what I do. I want to do it different. Things are really dysfunctional - in my opinion. And I gotta say I really dislike that word. It has become a catch phrase too widely used. But it is really odd here.
What is said usually contradicts what is actually happening, It is not fun here, nor peaceful. It is just pretend, don't talk, don't discuss, just eat breathe and sleep as if nothing is out of the ordinary. Mom goes up to bed, Dad falls asleep on the livingroom floor, or goes out to sleep in the RV.. That is just not OK. It is weird. It is not discussed. It is not acknowledged. My spouse will say our bed hurts his back. Come on. NO ONE believes that is the only reason he sleeps on the floor.
I was thinking about if I was just newly married, and we worked out a cooking schedule, and my new husband just ignored it. What would be the steps to correcting the situation? What are the natural consequences for not holding up your end of a bargain?
You are correct, I cannot make him care. Nor see what he does not want to see. But I can try to figure out how to stop my own crazy behavior that is making the whole crazy merry-go-round go around!
"What are the natural
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
"What are the natural consequences for not holding up your end of a bargain?"
I think the natural consequence is that you no longer cook for him.
I agree!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
If you "take turns" cooking, but he doesn't do "his turn", then every time he doesn't cook, then the next meal you cook only for yourself....don't leave any leftovers.
What is said usually contradicts what is actually happening
Submitted by Standing on
It's not peaceful and it's not fun to watch someone reinvent reality before your eyes.
I was going to post about my method for handling meals, but this feels like it's not about cooking at all.
Do you want your husband to stop sleeping on the floor or out in the rv?
The sysmptoms
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
"this feels like it's not about cooking at all".
Standing,
You are correct. it is a symptom of the problem. It is about sharing the responsibilities. Taking responsibilities for actions. Saying what you mean and meaning what you say. Cooking. Cleaning. Chores. Outings. Spending. All of it.
Do you want your husband to stop sleeping on the floor or out in the rv?
Again, it is a symptom of the problem. He could sleep out in the backyard if it made him happy. It is the big pink elephant in the room. (LOL, he is 6' 4" tall and weights about 280#) "Woe is me. I am unhappy. I am gloomy. I will just crunch up here in the corner, and put my head on a lawn chair cushion."
I HAVE great empathy for his pain. I FEEL so bad he is hurting so much. After quite a while of living with this behavior - I FEEL like it is time for him to put on his big boy pants, and face up to life. Can't make him, I get that. I can step over him when he is sleeping on the floor. It is just such an obvious cry for help/attention. I am powerless to help him. He doesn't ask. Doesn't say what it is is HE WANTS. It is left to others to guess, and then we are wrong and whoa be to us. It is not like I walked into this with open eyes. It slowly evolved - and now if I am the only one who can make my own life a quality place, then that is what I must do. I AM NOT his all in all. I AM NOT the answer to his happiness. HE IS NOT my all in all. HE IS NOT the answer to my happiness.
Right now, I get that. Right now, he is in pain. And hurting. And I am equally fed up with how our life is - and also I know I am only able to do my part.
SO. In my desire to love him, AND love honor and take care of my own spirit and life - I am unsure what to do. To every thing there is a season ~ a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up.
I feels so much like I need to be somewhere else. And let him wake up and see his own life as it is.
Does that make sense?
Liz
Please keep in mind
Submitted by Standing on
... I am not so emotionally bright. Seriously. And I don't follow well when so much is tangled up together. I'm one of those people whom nobody ever asked, "how do you feel about that?" and so my range is quite limited.
When I read you, I feel all sorts of things and I want to ask questions. That trait drives my husband (and sometimes my grown kids) batty, so I will certainly understand if you read me and think - good grief, she so totally does not get it! It won't be the last time I am clueless, no doubt :)
So this is it - - - I asked you if you want your husband to stop sleeping apart from you. It's a yes or no question when I ask it and it's perfectly okay if you don't want to respond, but honestly - that is all I was asking. The reason I ask if that - it was at the point where I had to answer that question for myself that life began to become much more simple. Stuff gets fixed one bit at a time. All of the philosophical arguments in the world cannot address what's at the core of relationship issues, in my opinion.
I like sleeping separate
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Standing.
My spouse snores quite terribly, he twitches in his sleep, plus his hands clench when he is sleeping - that hurts if they are holding any parts of my body.
Liz
Oh, that I do understand, from regular bouts of it,
Submitted by Standing on
but I've never had to deal with it on a continuous basis. Generally when he has a cold, the snoring becomes an issue I cannot ignore... The twitching is ongoing, but guess I've adjusted to it; No clenching, but flinging of limbs and general all-over-body-flopping are nightly occurrences. But none of these have been nearly such a concern within my own thought processes since I've worked toward making peace with some of his other Ways Of Being. Only very recently, I have come to the conclusion that I do want my husband to sleep by my side. No one was more surprised at this development than I.
Does sound like your husband may have a more serious case of the sleep-time issues (considering one thing at a time). Nonetheless, some of them can be worked around, maybe? Nasal strips come to mind. I've tried them myself, when faced with sinusitis' they help! I imagine you saying, "but he won't try" or "but he won't remember" and I think, those are 2 separate issues. I do not expect my husband to remember much. I do expect him to try - if and when I have expressed a desire that I know is mutually beneficial and if I keep this separate from all other issues. So that brings me back to my previous question (and I sincerely apologize if I am trying your patience here) - Do you Want your husband to sleep in the bed with you?
(I also enjoy the freedom and peace and quiet of sleeping alone. However, I have learned that I am alot more flexible than I thought I had left in me to accept his squiggliness since I faced within myself that I wanted him to WANT to sleep by my side, despite the fact that I fully realize he has no clue why that may be problematic for me. If I really have lost my marbles, as so often feared, again, please do forgive me.)
Do you Want your husband to sleep in the bed with you?
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Standing,
At this point in time - I do not. 2 reasons -
1. I am so tired the day after I have constantly having my sleep broken by snoring and twitching.
2. Since I am perturbed at him, and just need my space - for now.
Liz
Liz
I can appreciate that!
Submitted by Standing on
Been feeling extra tired myself lately, but I've had the luxury of adjusting my schedule accordingly and sleeping in a bit more often.
As far as being perturbed - for me, that become a state of mind and I did not like the way it was defining me.
As I read back over all that you've written here on this thread, I still hear you asking "What can I do differently?"
The answer closest to hand from my own life is - ask him why he chose to sleep elsewhere? The connectedness I experienced through his response was worth some sleepiness and that was definitely something I did differently. Just a thought.
A & A
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Standing,
I did ask him a couple weeks ago. He told me he was tired of getting pounded.
Wish I could understand it. I have nudged him to roll over - thus he would quit snoring for bit. Or I have pulled away from his clenches. I have not ever, never - pounded him. Now, if he had said it bothers him that we have no intimate life - that there would be the out and out truth. Never really know where he stands on anything.
Liz
That just sounds like projection on his part!
Submitted by Standing on
Going way out on a limb here and I apologize if this is too much... this is how I turn things inside out within my own thoughts, when I sense that my husband is putting an a "brave" (albeit obnoxious) front.
Sounds to me like he can't tell you the words you need to hear about intimacy, because they're not in his repertoire. But what if he's feeling it and has given up on being able to ask for what he needs? I take this outlook because my own emotional "stunting" prevented me for a long while from being aware enough to ask for comfort or to know how to receive it.
Feeling needs that you cannot even name or define can make a person feel pummelled. I know that I did. Without the tools to know what to do with it all, I've seen how some folks use projection - such as his taking your quite valid issue (he is effectively pummelling you, but turns that around) and make it their own. They don't know what's wrong, only that they're desperate to flee from further injury.
And maybe I'm all wet, because even if he could form words like, "when you don't show me love, I feel totally separate from you", he would still have all of the same issues, and it would likely come out sounding like somehow it was all your fault. And no matter what, he's still going to snore and forget and all the rest. And if you said to him, "I miss you", he may smirk and blurt out, "Who's your daddy now?" .... (yes, I have heard those words)... because, in so many ways, he is 14 going on 50. But still... it's something different, and humbling, and vulnerable, and slightly nuts, so I did it. And something shifted. And it had nothing to do with chores or cooking.
This will be something for me to think about - - to some degree
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Sounds to me like he can't tell you the words you need to hear about intimacy, because they're not in his repertoire. But what if he's feeling it and has given up on being able to ask for what he needs?
Sigh. The Impasse. The horrible impasse. He literally has been know to scream at the top of his lungs - out in our yard where all the neighbors could hear - that I am punishing him by with-holding sex. He has used some rude and crude words in a counseling session about how "She won;t even give me . . . . . . ."
I look at the road my relationship has taken. The ups, the downs, the rough spots, and the good spots.
Without any malice nor contempt in my heart - I have, at this specific time, no romantic feelings towards him. I love that he is the father of our children. I respect his right to make his own choices. I have shared that with him, at a time when it was not yelling nor screaming, but sitting down and discussing with all calmness, where our relationship is and where do we want it to be. I have told him that I feel we have tried everything we can, going to every type of counselor we can, and we are not closer, but farther apart. I told him I really thought it would be in our best interest to separate. So we can each have time, peace of mind, and do some soul searching. He cried and said he did not want to end our marriage.
Then recently, he stated in a counseling session that he had wanted to leave me a long time ago. Yet another thing I just do not know where I stand - in his eyes. When it was just him and I talking, he did not to separate. When we were in a counseling session, he used his words as an angry stab at me.
I think I have basically been waiting for us "to agree" that it is time to stop the madness.
And, yes, I did all those "what if" exercises: Picture another woman in your kitchen? How would that make you feel? Picture another woman in his arms. How does that make you feel? Picture another woman sleeping next to him in your bed. How does that make you feel?
I know my own needs. The need to be needed. The need to be acknowledged. The need to be honored. The need to be respected. The need to have my feelings accepted. The need to hear "I'm sorry." The need to hear, "I cannot do that for you right now, but let's figure out how we get it done." The need to hear "Where do you want to live, and let's figure out together where we both can be happy."
Yes, I fully admit that I tried everything I did to help our marriage. I wanted to meet his needs, in anticipation that he would want to understand or meet my needs. THAT is a marriage. THAT is a partnership. THAT is a relationship. As each year passed, and each thing failed, it broke a way a little piece of my heart.
So, one other thing we did was a multi page questionaire about our marriage. The end result was "Devitalized and Disconnected"
He was "satisfied with how finances are being handled", and "I had concerns". He was "satisfied with how we handle household roles and responsibilities" and I "had concerns."
Two of the biggest areas in which I still struggle. Unfair division of responsibility.
Oh, well, maybe I am one of those people who really needs a big rick to fall o her head, LOL!!!
I fully believe I will not walk out on my marriage. I fully believe we started it, we agreed to marry, and if it has become time, we need to agree end it.
And here comes the big but - something has gotta give already. I may need to re-look at my own standards.
Oh well, I got off on another one of my emotional spilling sprees!! So, I'll end it right there.
Liz
I hear you
Submitted by Standing on
In my very own words
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Standing,
I love the discussions I can have here, the rereading of my words and other's words, the hearing how someone else perceives my words, the questions I did not think about. As a matter of fact, this morning I am reading here and I read my very own words:
He was "satisfied with how finances are being handled", and "I had concerns". He was "satisfied with how we handle household roles and responsibilities" and I "had concerns."
I see a bit clearer today why he thinks the issues are mine, and not his. It is all - except for the intimacy - working for him. It APPEARS his motivation is to yell loud enough and long enough to get me to hear "how it is." Why? Because it always had worked that way.
As far as my own life goes, I have to listen to my own heart. It tells me how I have been living and doing things has kept my spouse happy, but it COSTED me much more than I had to give. I am at a deficit - in my marriage relationship.
I do not know to express in the correct way that "the ball is in his court" "he has to pick up the slack" "I need to feel something coming back" - without it sounding like "he is wrong and I am right." This is the stumbling block I get to in any counseling we attend. He really does have some problems/issues he needs to address before we can attempt to learn new ways to handle conflict in our marriage.
Here is an emotional word picture to explain what I am feeling: "You have invited me to come over to swim in your pool. I would LIKE to swim with you, but first you need to clear out the leaves, frogs and green scum. Then you need to make sure there is enough clear clean water to make the event enjoyable. And, no, right now I do not want to help you clean the pool."
I do not want to spin it to the place where "Liz must take responsibility for helping." Right now this is a serious situation where I care deeply for my spouse as a person, but I need so much more to be with him as his spouse.
Not selfish. Not blaming everything on my spouse. Just ready to pull my fair share, while he pulls his fair share. And that "fair share" needs to be agreed upon by both of us - not dictated by his anger.
Liz
Me, too, Liz
Submitted by Standing on
Some things just continue to be clear as mud
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Standing,
Today my spouse asked me why I cannot support him in his feeling taken advantage of by my brother. My brother asks my spouse for something, my spouse cannot say no, so thus I should be upset with my brother, or maybe tell my brother not to ask my spouse for something?
That is not how it works.
Yes, I support my spouse being kind and helpful. I agree that it is not always easy to say "no." I have tried 1,000 ways over the past 30+ years to explain/show/express how his saying 'yes' to everyone, causes him to be angry at me - as the result of my not agreeing with his anger at the person who asked my spouse for something.
Then my spouse spins off into pulling our past into everything. I am NOT who I was 25 years ago. I am smarter, more mature, and much wiser.
Gosh, this is so painful to watch. Wish I could help him. Do not know how to convey I do not share his opinion, and maybe if he just said "no" things would get better?
I agree full heartedly he does not have to like my brother. But as for helping find a "consequence" for my brother, I am not a willing participant.
Couldn't the consequence be hearing "Gosh I really wish I had the time, but my plate is full and you will have to find someone else this time."
All I can do is my own stuff. So I guess the question I would pose to anyone reading this is "How do I approach a response when my spouse wants to "share with me" his annoyance at this specific situation? His goal was to have me agree, and support him by agreeing. He actually wants to lecture me, to change my mind, to show how I was not being kind and support to him.
Liz
Shared Annoyance
Submitted by Standing on
Liz,
My new/improved internal response is to hold up my ginormous pair of imaginary scissors high in the air and snip that cord which used to bind me to his anger/frustration/general moodiness.
As for what I would say? Not sure. I have often been called upon to agree with him on something that he's thoroughly twisted in his mind to the point that it no longer resembles the actual occurrence. Once, I said when asked my opinion, "You don't want to know my opinion." (Nope, didn't help.)
Another time, I responded, "I understand that that is the way You view the situation." (Nope. No go there, either.)
Now? I think I'd settle for saying, "I'm sorry you're upset. Is there anything I can get you?" and call it good.
Sorry, that's all I've got.
On edit: Actually, there is more, Liz. When my husband lectures me about not having "his back", it is quite clear that he already knows i disagree with him. The point of the entire exercise seems to be more about picking a fight (to excite his brain?) Test this out sometime! Agree with him! Watch his face... Bet you a donut he will be shocked. I tried it today. He was so surprised he simply walked away.My spouse doesn't even cook!
Submitted by copingSAH on
My spouse doesn't even cook! He's only capable of "melts" (basically cheese over everything that comes out of a can or pre-cooked) for himself and a really botched attempt at scrambled eggs for the family (very overworked and curdled!). I have made the family meals from scratch for the past 20 years. I've always liked to cook. I just never knew how inexperienced he was in the kitchen until after we were married. He lived with his mother until he was in his mid-30s... so I'm just an extension of his late mother.
If your dh forgets to cook, then on his dime he has to pick up dinner or take you out to eat. However in our family, he will just blurt out a negatory, "you eat, I don't need to eat, I'm not hungry!" so we end up having a lopsided time going out. The other approach is not get upset, leave him to make himself tuna melts if he wants.
On the days you cook, cook a big batch of beef stew or whatever your favorite meal is, and freeze single serving sizes for the week at least. When he forgets, you can nuke a serving for yourself. If he wants to have a serving from the freezer too, then he needs to work with you on the days you batch cook. Then at least you'll be working together on a batch or two on a weekend.
I always felt my own ADD spouse never put much thought or interest into eating... that's why he never bothered to learn to cook. Just ate junk food or cereal or granola in yogurt. He happily eats that 24/7. Very much like a student in a dorm room.
How strong are we?
Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on
We tried the separate shopping, separate cooking because like you, the sharing of chores was unbalanced. It didn't bother him.He could remain in his own little bubble without having to even pretend to consider anyone else. I was hoping that he would 'get' how not normal this behaviour is. Did it work? No. Because I was hoping that he would see this. And he didn't. So the flame of love dimmed a little lower. I felt a little more sad and hurt and conned. And totally confused.
It's so hard because we hold on to the thinnest threads to convince ourselves that we can get the spouse to see/hear/understand. We tie ourselves in knots finding the right words, the right tone of voice, the right time to say stuff. All the conversations we have in our heads! And they are dashed the moment they come out of our mouths because the spouse just isn't in the present and doesn't see why he should be. C Ur Self talked about commonality on another thread and that really struck a chord with me. It seems to me that with ADHD spouses there isn't that ability to sit down and talk things through in a calm and reasoned way, with the conversation following a linear fashion, ending up with both sides feeling heard and validated. The conversation is misheard, if they've tuned in at all, misconstrued, diverted, twisted. Could it be that the cooking and grocery shopping situation (and the sleeping arrangements) are an expression of this lack of commonality? Is the core issue about not being heard?
We are so strong to have endured all this and still keep trying. Only you will know when/if you have had enough. We're here. And we're listening. Take care of yourself I'm So Exhausted.
A spade is a spade
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
TTMB,
Did it work? No.
The frustration I experienced in the cooking days realm was I would not have any supper ready when I got home from classes, or from what ever else I was doing. On days I was scheduled to cook, if I did not, my spouse slammed cupboards doors and grumbled about working so hard and not having anything to eat. I learned to just let that slip in one ear and out the other. There is no reasoning with him. He has not yet chosen to want to understand.
Because I was hoping that he would see this. And he didn't. So the flame of love dimmed a little lower. I felt a little more sad and hurt and conned. And totally confused.
I was waiting for HIM to see what I should have seen. I was hoping/dreaming/expecting something from he that he did not have to give. He has not yet chosen to want to understand.
It seems to me that with ADHD spouses there isn't that ability to sit down and talk things through in a calm and reasoned way, with the conversation following a linear fashion, ending up with both sides feeling heard and validated. The conversation is misheard, if they've tuned in at all, misconstrued, diverted, twisted.
I cannot paint all ADHD spouses with the wide brush of assigning "there isn't that ability" to them all - I know it does indeed apply to my spouse.
I have been getting much better at taking care of myself. I have had enough. I am just taking my time in determining my next steps. I will make wise decisions, and not do anything out of spite not anger.
What we have no longer works for me. It seems to work for him. Maybe not. That is for him to say. He has not yet chosen to want to understand.
Liz
I think you've got something here...I know you do:)
Submitted by c ur self on
(I have been getting much better at taking care of myself. I have had enough. I am just taking my time in determining my next steps. I will make wise decisions, and not do anything out of spite not anger.)
Yeah!...This is how it started for me...I couldn't get their alone, but, I'm getting there...It has not only created peace for me, but, it is starting to change our whole relationship for the better...When I stopped letting her lifestyle so overwhelm me and dictate my focus and sadly even my emotional state much of the time...When my focus got back on me caring for myself and living my own life...I became a happier person, more self-aware....And more accepting of her realities...Life is too short to be angry , with them or without them...Mine is an adult...And I'm going to keep stepping away and letting her be;)
ADHD and cooking....I have a passion for computer scien
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I have found that some ADHD people just refuse to cook. They hate the time and steps that it takes to cook.
My H and his mom rarely ever cook (both ADHD). They hate the time and steps and clean up. They would rather just grab something ready-made or nearly ready-made. I
I think that they can't stand the time that cooking and food prep take away from what they WANT to be doing.
Cook for yourself and let him fend for himself.
When we got married, H told me, "if you cook, then I'll do dishes"....what a laugh. He never did clean a dish.
Now that he's retired, he will eventually do dishes....maybe once every 4 days. We eat out a lot so there aren't 4 days of dishes in the sink, but there are often 2 days of dishes in the sink.