Greetings,
My fiance and i have been dating 3 months (did i say i'm impulsive?), but truly i've found a woman after my heart and im happy to find her, to seek out, and to donate my heart to her every day. we've spent a tremendous amount of time together and we're planning that next step. but truthfully, i've lived a life of self-fulfilling prophesy in that i never felt worthy of love, and i was fearful and anxious about my ability to keep a relationship, and then, consequentially, previous relationships have suffered bc of it. so i have been deliberately alone for a very long time. and consequentially, i'm not very skilled at relationships. sounds like oroboros.
but, i know where i stand with this woman and that is clear. since my thoughts are so foggy so often, i thrive on clarity. and so, we're pushing the envelope. and i've said yes to everything.what a blessing.
but now that we are seeing the effects of my adhd, we're looking for strategies to stay on the front end of this. i take straterra (but maybe there's a better medicine - it makes me so sleepy), i keep an active calendar in use (she has 2 active children), i exercise often (and probably i should find some vitamins to keep up with that), i work at an active job (and it can wear me out and be highly stressful as a general manager of a restaurant - did i say active? 70 hours /week active), i keep a notepad and try to remember the little things that let her know she's important and loved (but i forget the conversation we had 10 seconds ago).
so, stress, fatigue,inexperience, and my own inadequacies or anxieties - these things kind of impact my ability to manage the adhd and i'm looking for suggestions on how to start off on the right foot and stay there.
your help is greatly appreciated.
very respectfully
Why are you already engaged?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
When did you get engaged?
What are some of the effects of your ADHD on the relationship?
on topic
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
"when and why" feel like a different conversation, but to answer the question regarding the effects of my adhd: i'd say that in the beginning it became quickly apparent that i needed to be on medication. "just like anyone with diabetes" is the analogy i've used frequently. but truthfully, i spent significant time in the military where, if you understand how the military works then it is a great structure for those with adhd. but if you don't understand how it functions, then it can be a very very poor choice for someone with adhd. it really depends a lot on the individual's maturity and their ability to evaluate their environment. i succeeded in extremely stressful environments working with my team. that said, i didn't have to face my adhd head on.
but this, relationship, that is, is very different. being so enamored with my now fiance, i'm facing my adhd for the first time in decades. i don't have a notepad in front of when i communicate with her as i would have when i spoke with my superiors or issue orders. Communication has been the biggest issue. i can stare her straight in the face and not hear a word she said. with other people i've learned to kind of nod and make facial expressions out of habit to conceal that i have no idea whats being discussed. and i can't do that wth her.
without the medication i'll make 20 plans a day that put me in 20 different places all at once. so i let her make the plans and i just put them in my calendar. she's learned that if i have an idea to do something, let's wait until we talk about it 3 or 4 times before we consider it a legitimate interest. she learned that from the adhd and marriage book that led to this website, but let's be honest here - there's some subject material in the book anf on the website that feel out of place, scary, and even not appropriate. what's with all the anger? does it come with adhd? or is that supposed to the effect of not addressing it early on, years of frustration built up? or perhaps it comes from being treated so differently al of life for being adhd - weird.
at the end of the day, the two command skills necessary for success are planning and communicating. within a certain structure i do both very well. but i'm adapting to my new environment and i need advice from those who have the experience to offer it - because i can't treat my wife like the army.
Hi nointroductionn
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm and ADHD man who has been married previously for many years ( 20 total between two wives...the first I right off as a draw...too young, too dumb and too naive and ignorant on both sides) When I met my wife now....I had years of therapy behind me, I had been long established on my meds and they were dialed in perfectly and from the first day I began talking to her....I brought up my ADHD and fully admitted to her the problems I had run into in the past. (my side not blaming or making my past failures about the people I was with. Having said all of this up front with my wife....as soon as we started living together.....things changed rather rapidly and many but not all of my past problems came right back and bit me on the ass. In many ways....this did not change or make much difference even when I naively believed that it would. Not so much. And to make this point.....it was only because I started out with this huge head start to begin with is why we have made it through some really touchy moments together and called it quits on several occasions to find that we re-thought this over and both decided we could make the changes we needed to together BUT, BUT, BUT.....
To say.....if I had not been the one to take charge of this in ways that my wife simply could not do...we never would have made it.
I firmly believe that the type of person who we line up with has everything to do with how well a person with ADHD will do in a relationship with another person however....there is reason for this and you have already pointed to one big red flag already...
i succeeded in extremely stressful environments working with my team. that said, i didn't have to face my adhd head on. Me too...but I did face my ADHD head on like I said. The problem here is that you can handle extremely stressful environments and work as a team under those conditions.....don't assume that others will have this ability. In this sense.....we're use to it and having ADHD and it does give you this ability. The person who is with us and their ability to manage this is a lot more important than your ability......moving on here
but this, relationship, that is, is very different. being so enamored with my now fiance, i'm facing my adhd for the first time in decades. i don't have a notepad in front of when i communicate with her as i would have when i spoke with my superiors or issue orders. Communication has been the biggest issue. i can stare her straight in the face and not hear a word she said. with other people i've learned to kind of nod and make facial expressions out of habit to conceal that i have no idea whats being discussed. and i can't do that wth her. For now you can....your in the hyperfocus stage of your relationship and this is easy to do for you right now.....wait a year or 2 and I think you will find yourself doing the same thing you did before.....nodding, making facial expressions that say you are hearing and understanding just to conceal the fact that in these moments....you really aren't fully there.
Don't fool yourself and be naive in thinking that whatever you have done for your entire life is not what will happen again with your fiance two years or more down the road. This aspect is part of having ADHD and it is something that you really need to have a handle on and understand that this is where the connection is made.....lost or broken over time. Getting back to where you are now will not be so easy when that happens. This is where the complaints, anger and resentment begin because the effect this has on the other side from being with us and too the point again....if your F is Okay with this now and even senses it from time to time....she is unlikely to be Okay with this when the initial hyperfocus that you are in goes away and you find yourself behind the 8 ball with no where to go unless you're willing to put a whole lot of effort forth to compensate for this aspect of being with us on your end. I'm saying....it won't be this easy after a while and that will never end on your part or the equation. It's not your feelings surrounding this aspect (whether you can handle it or not like you said under extreme circumstances).....it's how she's going to feel about when you reach that point with and it will inevitably happen to a certain degree....in other words.....be ready and have your eye wide open and expect this to happen on some level whether you realize this or not.
I will put this to you another way.....as my therapist explained it to me. Almost in joking about this one time in context to something else we were discussing he told me that I would make the perfect human litmus test for him to use to help him diagnosed people with anxiety related disorders. All he would have to do is put me in a room with someone for a day or two and sit behind a glass window and observe how these patients would respond to me after a while. LOL I have a good relationship with him and this was taken as it was said....being somewhat factitious but yet.....this was his way of saying that we have that effect on some people more than others especially for those who have their own issues with anxiety and stress. In the case with my wife....this is closer to the truth than I would hoped that was true and I came to this realization myself the hard way despite how well we started out together.
You wanted some advise and I will give you some straight up here with no reservation. You are making a mistake and setting yourself up for real trouble in getting engaged and married only after 3 months together. I think you have less than a 50/50 chance of failure if you do not slow down and think this through more carefully.
Having said that and to answer a couple of your questions. Most the of people who are here on this forum are dealing with issues outside of just ADHD. The anger you were wondering about is more related to that than just ADHD itself. While it is not uncommon......not everyone with ADHD is like this including me. I do not (or did not) struggle with anger issues in my past history and still don't fit that category myself. I did however begin to snap under the pressure of dealing with my wife and her inablity to deal with many of the more commonly associated symptoms involving house maintenance, forgetfulness, and inconsistency.
Let's face it dude....we're a pain in the ass at times and you will only find out how much a problem this is for your fiance when you reach that point with her. Don't kid yourself or be naive in your thinking that things will not change and you will still not be faced with the same problems you have always run into in the past.
Having said all these things and now saying a few more positive things for you to think about. I know several men (freinds) who have ADHD and have been happily married (whatever that is....lets say without any more problems than anyone else I see). This is HUGEL due to the fact that these men picked women who are almost saintly in their ability to cope, adjust and deal with these men who are no less bigger pains in the ass as I am now. These are in a sense....exceptional women in their ability to do this and still be fine with things as they are. I think it takes a really special person to be "just fine" with us and not be a problem but as I know these ladies personally......they have a gift at being like water sliding off a ducks back and are not affected greatly by other people and in life in general. I think some folks are just born with this ability to see the bright side in all things all the time with little effort on their part in their ability to do so.
More so than myself and anyone else I have ever met.....they just don't let this stuff affect them and still see all the good sides to their husbands despite the inequities that are involved. If you have met one of these types of women who I think are more rare on average....then it is even more important that you slow down and make sure you do everything you can to make sure of this ahead of time and ease her in to being with you and not throwing her in the deep end of the pool and yell "swim!'...if you understand what I am saying.
You asked? I think there are some real things to consider in this and also to consider when you are reading some the stories with other couples who have a partner with ADHD.
PS....Pointing out you are impulsive and doing what you are doing is a good thing. It's good to be aware of this.....but being aware is not the same as doing something about it which is exactly what you are admitting to by doing this very thing. Think about it????
J
expectations
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
Sounds Good So Far
Submitted by kellyj on
I can see now it's a little different than just meeting 3 months ago. That's different. And yes.....her OCD is going to be problematic for you for sure....as it is for my wife. My wife is not officially diagnosed as OCD but in the common usage....it fits her pretty well. She is a perfectionist in many ways that is tied to her anxiety.....not a good combo for ADHD to say the least. I liked what you said about not being normal....neither am I....we have ADHD! lol It's a good place to keep reminding yourself of that every time you start feeling likes more her instead of you. Her anxiety related issues will definitely make you feel this way but in reality....the two of you will just be feeding into each other anxiety at the same time....no one at fault and no one to blame....just two competing issues that push each others buttons.
Here's what I think you should do and start practicing ahead of time since you will need to keep on doing it and getting better at it as time goes on. In this sense....this should be your life long goes anyway.
Don't be defensive! This is a difficult thing to do even when you feel like you are in the right. It doesn't matter....right or wrong....don't be defensive. Allow her to be angry or irritable and don't fight back. The reason for this is exactly what I said.....it will be hard for you not to feel self righteous and feel like its more her and her issues than it is yours. Even when this pisses you off and you feel it coming on....try and stop this and let that slide. By doing this....you become the duck and her water will slide off your back instead of the other way around. In fact....if you make it your goal to become just like the women I was describing married to my friends who can let a whole lot of water under the bridge and still not be affected by it...you will be way ahead of the game. This may not feel fair or even to you since you may not have been naturally born that way like I was saying....but working on this and becoming more that way anyway will serve you well in an on going basis. Remember your not normal. lol
On the same token.....you don't want to be a punching bag and set yourself up that way either. If nagging works to control you and you never fight back or say anything.....you're also teaching the other person that this is Okay too when it's not. Start establishing boundaries slowly right now with her since thing are going well and you are in love. This is the perfect opportunity to start talking about things that you struggle with. You have the chance right now to open up that kind of communication with her and establish that you are open to listen but will have a say in it for yourself too. The best way to do that is be honest and up front about things and don't be afraid of telling her things like this in fear of tarnishing your halo. It will happen anyway all on it's own so it's better to admit things now when things are good than trying to do it later when communication is more difficult. Your not trying to talk her out of seeing you the way she does....you are getting her to see that you are not perfect and for her to expect some of these from you in advance but only to help her understand why it is and how hard some things will be for you to do. What you are doing is elimating as many chances for miscommunication, misunderstandings and all the assumption that people make when they themselves do not understand how to interpret the things that we do. This is not making excuses or saying that you will not work on these things or improve as you go....it's just being realistic and making sure she see's you as you are and not how she is seeing you through somewhat rose colored glasses right now. Perhaps?
And really the only way to do this is for you to do your homework ahead of time and understand these things yourself. Knowing and doing are two different things but you need to know before you can do in order to explain or teach her what she needs to know and what she is seeing. By doing this....you are being fully accountable and taking full responsibility on your end. Even if she isn't doing this for herself and her issues....this will protect you from being accused of things that you are not doing and covering yourself for if and when that time comes. It's not a ....I told you so kind of thing. It more that you have already talked about it and it won't be a big surprise. At that point at least.....if the communication lines have already been open and you aren't defensive.....this will set the example that you both can live by since you established this right from the beginning.
In all things that have to do with ADHD....it's about looking ahead and planning. The expectation is that you WILL do these things and trying to head them off before they happen. Assuming anything otherwise will only cost you both and be a much bigger problem to face. Think about like a chess game with yourself and you are your own opponent...not everyone else:)
J
greatly appreciated
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
Add...Being Patient Too...Maybe At the Top of the List
Submitted by kellyj on
Before I forget a couple things that my T has emphasized with me repeatedly over the years. Going along with not being defensive as a means to practice this. Don't make anything you do contingent on what she does (no tit for tat ) and being patient.
I discovered that being patient is a vital skill with my wife when it comes to my ADHD symptoms. My wifes's issues drive her impatience....whether this a conscious or subconscious process or not....she can be short with impatience because of this when things don't go her way. For someone who is anxious or fearful anyway.......anxiety will drive a person to be a little Neurotic anyway. OCD like behaviors as irrational or meaningless seeming on your end are not so meaningless for the person who is experiencing the anxiety that drives them. Whether my wife does this with intention or not.....things that either make this worse or better are seen as good or bad for her. The overall result of this is her tolerance or patience level is low to certain things. This makes her irritable when these things aren't happening and my ADHD symptoms become the perfect target for the cause or source of her anxiety and her own irritability. Of course.....this part has nothing to do with me. No one makes another person irritable.....it's her anxiety that is the cause for this but in the moment.....she doesn't or can't see it.
At this point......she is beginning to make these connections now slowly over time but her self own righteousness in regard to this was one of the biggest obstacles that had to be addressed first before she was willing to look past this and take a closer look.
This is a process and it takes time. What my wife lacks is patience and what I needed to find more of was the very thing she lacked in herself. Funny how that works?
On our side of things.....these are the kinds of things that we have to do anyway and especially with your F since she is only human and knows very little about something that you have had a lifetime of experience with. In the moment.....when you get short and impatient (or mad or angry because of it).....this is the very thing that you should not do and be more patient instead.
Remember....you're the one who's not normal not her. Even if she's a little OCD and has her own issues......don't go there.....it's not Tit for Tat. That's a bad road to start going down and will only cause you trouble:)
So in the moment like you are asking about.....when you are impulsive you are not listening well. If you are thinking two steps ahead of her and already know the answer for example.......or are interrupting, interjecting,hurried or rushed speech, going off topic and or changing the subject, adding your own two bits in, fidgeting, looking out the window, doing other things like toe tapping, pencil tapping, looking at a magazine cover or just simply needing to stop her because you cannot wait to say something or your side first or worse....stopping her from finishing and blurting out your own thoughts before she can get to the point? Any or all of these kinds of impulsive somewhat invisible (to us on our end) acts can be looked at as being impatient and not listening or not really caring about what the other person is saying even if you really are.
That's how these things come across to other people and they all go right back to being impulsive like you have already mentioned and you know about yourself. If this is the case.....you probably do half a dozen or more of these things (walking out the room while she is talking.....another big one that we do). It's not any one of these things by themselves that are an issue......it's when you do all of these things all of the time and you don't even realize that you are doing them is where the problems start. After a while.....you would feel the same way too.....like the other person isn't interested in what you have to say and you don't care or give a shit.
As far as communication and connection is concerned.....listening and being patient will solve all of these problems if you just focus on just that much. KISS....keep it simple stupid. lol I do this with myself all the time....no offense:)
PS.....I don't think having a note pad and jotting down things like you did in the military can necessarily be seen as not listening or being impatient.....actually just the opposite. If that worked for you then.....as impersonal and interview feeling as a person might see this.....if it works and she can get use to it and see it for what it is ie: I have ADHD and I need to do things like this so I can listen better and not forget things. This might help in all areas and be killing two birds with one stone. Again ie: focusing on what she is saying, taking notes and not talking or thinking about the next thing to say, doing something physical so not to become fidgety and anxious looking etc etc......all the above. Just a thought.......if it works.....go with what you know and work off your strengths?
J
Red Flag!
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Hysterical, I don't know why
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
Needs
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Well said. But I know from
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
She's probably a helper/giver
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Also 'let her handle it
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Listening vs Hearing H37
Submitted by kellyj on
Before I forget to ask....how are you doing?:) I think you summed this up pretty well....to the point you are making and what he is asking about in connecting and communicating and what I said about listening. Thinking I need to take this to the obvious next step. Listening is good and makes the other person feel heard....but are you hearing them? Are you relating and and you on the same page? Listening is good but what you need to have or form a connection is to be heard. There's a difference and it is not all so subtle either. That's the make or break point I think people with ADHD seem to miss.....myself included.
Ironically....my wife just came in just now and handed me an article in "Discover July/Aug 2015 edition"(magazine...science for the curious...we have a subscription or else I would paste and copy it here for you) The title reads.... Irrational Arguing; How to Stop Shouting: 6 Strategies for Conversing With Someone Who Has Irrational Ideas How about that for kizmet? lol....too funny!
And yes....she did this to show me something that I do in an effort to help me see the very thing I am talking about.....things I do that cause us not to connect very well. She admits doing some other things that this article is saying only to say that the dialog is now open and we are sharing and talking about these things now. In part.....because of what I am already saying and have discovered for myself. What a person really wants is to be heard and understood not just that you are paying attention to them and listening. There is an assumption that goes along with this that something will become of this conversation....either and action or some further understanding on your part perhaps? Right? If that doesn't happen.....then you feel like you have not been heard even IF the other person is listening and paying attention. If that is the case....you don't have any connection. Bingo!
What you said Classically lots of non adhd wives find themselves giving too much. You asked what was the best strategy and I say focus on what she needs, thank her for her help and ask her what she needs and give it to her. The gap for us is that we don't always see or understand why that is. Your example is a good one. She see's he needs clarity and she gives it to him. That's one right there and he didn't need to ask. This is part of the problem right there.....if you give something without the other person asking in this way....the assumption is that they will do this for you? It's called modeling I think? That's all well and fine if the other person gets it and understands this is what is happening. You clearly got it but I think for us many times....we don't. I think this is a strength women have over men in general I think too just too point this out. Men are not very good at listening in this way and women seem to do this more intuitively?
Not to lose the point here or get off track.....if you are really listening and paying attention and trying to hear what is being said..........and understanding all at the same time....it means you get it and now you can move on forward from there. A connection was formed when you do this. "I hear you" means just that....not, "I heard you" in context to being annoyed or lectured at and responding saying you are listening and to please stop. There is no connection and no understanding in this kind of listening.
I wish I could download this article because it is too long to copy and type in but here are the strategies themselves that explain this in more detail in the article. It's good one if you can still find it online or store.
Here is how this article starts....I think this is interesting 1. Be a good listener and make a connection. As much as we would like to think other wise, most huan judgments are not based on reason, but on emotion says Ditto the UC Irvine psychologist. Aim to forge a personal connection that makes the other person inclined to see you as "one of us." Farther down it says ..."Don't be such a scientist. Do not lecture...nobody wants to hear that". He says..."Instead of throwing out a bunch of facts...ask questions."
I think this is a huge part of what you are saying H37.....ask and then you will know but first you have to listen and be on the same page like this article suggests. If you person is speaking in terms of facts figures and logic and the other one is speaking from emotion and doesn't realize it....you are not on the same page and all thins will be confusing and irrational at that point no matter how hard you are trying to listen. I see the mistake and problem already in this scenario from experience and I have already brought this up before as a problem between my wife and I.
I will try and use logic with her and she speaks to me from emotion and insists that she's not. The words she uses are not ones of emotions but she is definitely speaking from emotion not logic because nothing she says makes any logical sense to me at the time! lol Her arguments are irrational and illogical and she confuses the two and bounces back and forth between them all at the same time within the same conversation. I clearly see she is doing this and she cannot.
I on the other hand will lecture and give facts and figures and no emotion involved. My wife cannot relate to me at all when I do this and as this article suggests....no wants to hear......except for ME!!! lol I like to share information like this and like it when other people are telling me things they have learned and can teach me new stuff. When I meet people who are like this.....I don't mind that they lecture me in fact.....I gravitate to it and in kind,.....I give them back the same thing they gave to me and this works great as long as the other person is getting the same thing back that they want themselves.....logic, reason and facts.
I can work from emotion two but I tend not to confuse them or mix them well.....either one or the other? When someone starts mixing reason and logic with emotion is where I start to lose them and I also lose the connection I have with them. On my end....I need them to pick one.....emotion or logic? That's what I need and I assume that the other person will get this in the context of what I am saying and how I am saying it. If people can't do this with me....I don't feel like I have been heard very well. That's on my end. The wrong assumption that I conclude from this is that people don't understand me and they need more information to make a decision which I will gladly do in my own lecturing fashion. ....no problem!! lol
With my wife, for example... I discovered she has a seeming inability to separate her logic from her emotions and no matter how I would try to get her to see my logical point of view....it would only frustrate her and make her feel unheard and disrespected at the same time but......I could always appeal to her emotions and this was the common ground for us to begin to connect with and "forge that connection first".... before I introduced logic into it. If I can start this way with her and keep hearing her emotions along with the points she is trying to make....it has served to get to the information I really need in order to understand her and ....to get it.
I think people with ADHD from the sound of it struggle with this concept as much as folks without seem to not understand why. I can't tell you exactly only that I now get it and see this happening with me. I still get confused easily when someone is bringing emotion into a logical debate or discussion and it is not easy for me to flip back and forth within the content of a single conversation well.....but I can if I pay attention and listen to which one is actually being said that I am much better at doing this from my past with a little practice. With my wife however.....if these things start getting so confused and mixed up in a single conversation too badly....I can always default to emotion and just try to appeal to her that way. Emotion is the language that will always work with her. Logic.........eh???? Still working on that with no emotion involved. lol
H37.....at the end of this article....the last strategy it offered #6 ( in like of what you said about facebook and you BF) "Engage in person....not in writing. It's not a secret people behave poorly online. When you are having a discussion in the abstract, it's easy to set people off without being conscious of it. Once emotions are working, responses get hot rather than cold without the social cues and body language that tells you what another persons emotions are and it's more difficult to spiral on in endless rants when you are face to face with another person." In other words......facebook does not requite a lot of interpretation and inter personal skills. There's also not downside to being an asshole and completely and socially inept because there in no real connection like you are face to face with another person. It is why I don't do facebook or things of that nature....or text or talk on the phone much....almost hardly never ( excuse my grammer lol). This forum is pretty much the only one I have made an exception to as a rule but I am learning things specific to being better at connecting to wife in real time face to face. That how that works. lol
J
Thanks for asking
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Yep So So True H37
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm sorry you are struggling....I wish I could give you some advise....oops. lol This is my problem....I'm a fixer. I want to help by fixing the problem and find a solution first before anything else.....I'm also very aware of this and still, I have to watch myself all the time to make sure I don't do this....and still do even then. This is my struggle not anyone else. If I do it and get called on it....it's just showing where to look the next time.
And my wife is a rescuer....this is what she does. A fixer and a rescuer are not going to relate well if they can't find some common ground to begin with. My T has brought me to this place repeatedly in his office and won't let me slide an inch. This has been really helpful in getting me started....I can pretty much take it from here and yet.....he's brutal and relentless with me still. Not one goes by without him pointing it out. That's Okay....I'm good with and know what he's doing.
And no....my emotions are intertwined just like anyone else.....I tend to default to more logic instead as a rule if I am trying to figure things out and understand what I hearing. The problem with this is exactly what you said.....sometimes you just need to be heard and I think women tend to do this with each other in this way more than men. I say this because I don't run into this issue with other men the same as I do with women or my wife. She confirms this and I have watched and listened to her with her friends and how they communicate with each other (also confirmed here on this forum)....in a way to connect and share their feelings and emotions in this way to ease and temper difficult emotions and problems they are having.
And you are absolutely right....if I went to my male friends and started doing this with them....not only would they look at me funny but would quickly move away from this kind of sharing as fast as they possibly could. What I know about myself and being a guy......this doesn't not help me and ease difficult emotions and feelings it only makes me feel worse. That's why we avoid it....not because we can't or don't know how (not very well more likely just from not doing it much) but too the point.....it doesn't feel good! lol And it certainly doesn't fix the problem. Fixing the problem will make it go away and not happen again.....talking about solutions to fix the problem (as men tend to do)....makes you feel like you are getting closer to resolution....anything out side of that only brings back closer to being inside the problem and not feeling good again! From at least my male perspective and what I know of other men.....this does seem to be a more typical pattern. I can sit in the other room and listen to wife pour over her feelings about some problem she is having at work or with someone with one of her friends for an hour straight and never hear anything close to a solution or resolution to the problem during this entire conversation. That's a big clue for me right there.
And yes....giving unsolicited advise is asking for trouble....the problem I run into with my wife for example.....is looking for answers and listening to her that way and not understanding what she wants is the same thing she does with her friends on the phone....for me just to listen and to get her feelings out there not an answer to how to fix it and for me to listen to her and relate with her feelings. When she's done.....I've got nothing to offer because I've been listening and thinking in the same way I always by default.....finding answers.....identifying the problem.....getting ro resolution. Specifically....that's what I mean when I say my wife and I run into these kinds of communication problems. This can be construed as giving unsolicited advise because it's the only way I can respond when I make this kind of mistake....but I hate unsolicited advise as much as anyone else.....possibly more?
Case in point.....a co-worker that I worked with would do this all the time. He was a helper as you mentioned and it drove me nuts! Without asking for help or advise....he was always there putting his nose and foot into it. No matter how many times people would tell him not to do this....he couldn't stop and it had the same effect on me as it did everyone....it makes you angry after a while.
In the same vane.....I won't offer if it's not asked with my friends and they do the same with me...no problem. If they ask...they get my critical mind and my thoughts on fixing the problem and finding a solution. This is what they and want...and this is what I want in the same context.
With my wife however.....this gets more confusing??? She will relaying her day and her feelings and I am with her every step of the way....listening to her feelings and following along with my own. When it's appropriate....I will offer her my feelings in return....this will go along fine until she does something that she does as a habit in speaking.....she will pause during this exchange and look up with her hand on her chin and say " I wonder what that means?" or " I don't understand?" or "I wonder....XXXXXXX??????"....and then she will continue to talk about her feelings. As soon as she does this.....the question has now been asked. At the end of the exchange....I start out by trying to answer her "wonderings". That's only logical right? Wrong! It was rhetorical...she didn't want an answer or was wondering anything....but she speaks like this all the time and has no idea she keeps posing question after question in her language because she "thinks out loud" while she is speaking at the same time. Trying to bounce back and forth between her ..."thinking out loud wondering, pondering, questioning????".....and trying to sort that out and follow her emotions and not get waylayed by all these questions that she in NOT asking gets me tied in knots sometimes and it is very difficult to know which is which by the end of this conversation. I've actually tried to listen to her with these conversations with other women and or...her family to hear what they actually say in response? The answer.....nothing. This seems to be something that they know not to respond to and just respond with more or their feelings.
This is in the essence of what I am saying and I do think that a lot of this does come from the difference between men and women and how they relate to one another in this way. I do think my wife has a very bad habit of speaking out loud her mind "thoughts and questions"....at the same time she is relating her feelings which is difficult to follow for me....but this does not seem to be an issue with other women she talks to from the sound of it?"
From the male point of view (as it is with my friends for example)......don't give unsolicited advise but don't ask a question unless you want an answer. This habit of speaking rhetorically is usually very obvious and done in way that says it is. I don't understand this way of speaking really and that is a big part of my problem with my wife. These verbal pondering are questions aren't they? I told her this and brought her to see what I was talking about. I told her I can't tell half the time what she wants because everything sound like a question to me? lol
Within her sharing of her feelings....I hear.....not understanding, pondering, wondering and flat out questions which none of which it seems she wants an answer too??? What she wants is exactly what you said...to be heard and to share her feelings and thoughts. It's these thoughts that get me sooooooo confused because they come out of her mouth in question form!! lol
So no.....my thoughts and emotions are always present and they do get intertwined as well. But what I don't do almost to a fault....is speak rhetorically and if you hear anything that even resembles a questions, wondering, pondering or otherwise fall from my lips.....I expect and want an answer or you won't hear me speak it...almost never!! lol
What I have learned from this expereince however....is too this point. My wife wants me to listen to her feelings and she doesn't want me to try and fix them. It really is that simple:)
J
Abstraction
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
This Is A Quandry I Have No Answer For?
Submitted by kellyj on
I was born seeing in 3 dimensions. A lot of artist say the same thing so I know that this is true. Either you see this way or you don't. If you don't...you can learn to develop it but you will never truly be able to see this way. To develop this ability....you can use tools and measurements and aids to use to get there but....it you see this way already.....you can do it without as I can. If I draw a picture....it has feeling and it's alive. I can manipulate it anyway I want and change the feeling and the emotions that come from it when you look at it. Same as when I do photography and see the picture that will come out before it is developed from looking through the lens. I know what it will look like in abstract form before I ever see it because I see this way anyway. I can visualize exactly what my art will look like before I do it and the feeling that I put into it happens in the moment. The same as when I play my guitar. I'm not technically not very good because I mostly learned to play by ear. But when I play...it has warmth and feeling. There is soul and emotion in it and that too is hard to come by when you can't do this naturally. My band mate who was much, much better and more diverse than I was sounded stiff and mechanical. It just didn't have any feeling behind it and you could tell. So did people who heard us play and would come to later me and say so making these very comments to me. How did I get this ability? Who knows? But it is the ability to see and feel in abstraction. In a tactile and visual sense....I have trouble not seeing things in abstractions and I suffer seeing things in concrete forms like this, But....when it comes to communicating and hearing words that people say to me....I do have a tendency to hear things literally and take them at face value.
But are we talking about feelings or emotions now? Here we go as I do. Feelings are not emotions.....which is which here? lol
J
Ok I get it
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Best wishes.
Submitted by Bou (not verified) on
<p>Very best wishes to you and your fiancee. Very best</p>
<p>I'm very moved that you are scrutinizing yourself with full intention of your doing things, changing your habits, to do better than in the past, with your new love. Kudos. you sound like a great guy!
On only one topic, since by your account, your fiancee herself, when you asked her what could be better, identified that she felt like she was doing the lions share of work, please please listen to Hysterical on this matter It simply wont do to rationalize your fiancee away by saying that she has no idea what effort you put in to accomplish what you do. your fiance identified to you that her workload has gone up and it is heavy on her shoulders. No matter how hard your own labors are, that's not what your fiancee said her need was! If you dont learn more about what problem with workload on her shoulders, not yours, your fiancee identified to you, that's going to be something that will affect your relation
I was AGHAST at what came onto my back, once I began sharing a roof with someone with ADHD. I'm not lazy, I'm from a hardworking culture, I've held a job since I was 16, sometimes I've worked 2, I dont hire out house or yardwork, and was staggered by what cohabitation with someone with adhd, who thank you is disciplined himself, did to me. No particulars, just trust me to be telling you the truth and that I'm able to assess my own workload. To his credit and to ours, my partner and I have talked straight about this, have done some decisionmaking about lightening my load and are carrying it out. I understand that there are things he cant do, and I dont ask him to do those. he understands that he has to take action to care for me, or the relation will founder on my exhaustion, and he is, within his own capabilities and needs.
Dont rationalize away what your fiancee told you. Find out what will bring her workload down, do NOT presume you know what that is, hear her. after all, the problem she identified to you is about work sh's presently doing, not work you're presently doing. Find out more of what in fact she has added to her workload, then take more than flash in th pan action action to help her reduce that load. This uneven workload is a very frequent stressor on spouses of people with ADHD. notice the screen names "Overwhelmed" "i'm Exhausted" on this site. Look up "c u r self". he's a husband, not a wife. please ask him about what's on his back due to his ADHD wife's limitations. If you can modify what your fiancee KNOWS to be an extra burden of work on her, not on you. you'll reduce the chance that she burns out because of the extr work after marriage. you'll also increase the chance that your wonderful love life with your fiancee remains alive
Good points
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
I Was Coming Back Here To Express My Feelings...
Submitted by kellyj on
after my last comment responding about thoughts and feelings intertwined. I read this last comment of yours and it does fit in to the very source in some respect to my own feelings and why they exist.
My feelings as I described....when thinking about unanswered questions and the need to "fix" the problems or questions that hear within my wife's speech for example? And why does talking about them make me feel worse not better ie: does not relieve stress but only makes it worse which is what you just mentioned?
This is an easy one for me to answer and I am also very aware of this now from a lifetime of experience. The need for resolution and to find answers is less from and inherent need to do so or ADHD....this is a programmed response that comes from my own personal experience that matches what you are saying going all the way back to my childhood. When I hear a problem or distress coming from someone in the form of uncertainty and expressing concerns, emotions and feelings in this way means.....
something bad is about to happen.
These are my true feelings and why it doesn't feel good to talk about it. I understand why this and yet this still happens anyway. These feelings are the ones that get in the way of my ability to follow someone who is sharing their thoughts and feelings in this way with me especially when I perceive or pick up and unanswered question within the wording.
Without thinking about this or without knowing my own intention in offering the same thing back as I do.....I'm trying to take that worry away from the other person (or my wife in this case) as if this was the same one that she would be feeling if she were me.......as if something bad is about to happen and the worry that goes along with it.
Just so you know....that's at least why this is for me.
j
take it slow
Submitted by nointroductionn... on
it will still be here
Submitted by Hysterical37 (not verified) on
Stepping Back and Taking A Closer Look
Submitted by kellyj on
Hi nointroduction,
I went back to your posts to get a better picture again.....as someone with ADHD, I understand the overwhelming part in relationship to the thread, too much information and coming at you too fast. I think I can help narrow this down for you from all the things that you and everyone else has said from a different approach and give you my own opinion based on some key points that you have made and are having concerns about along with a couple of my own.
so, stress, fatigue,inexperience, and my own inadequacies or anxieties - these things kind of impact my ability to manage the adhd and i'm looking for suggestions on how to start off on the right foot and stay there.
Stress ,Fatique, Insecurities and Anxieties
The obvious....70hrs on your feet in restaurant work.( thinking 6 X 12hr days? ). That's a lot of work and very little time to rest and recover. What little time that is left....you have to divide yourself up between daily life chores and your relationship. What little you have to use here becomes much more important to use that time wisely. The energy you have to give will be dependent on your own capacity but if you are running on the edge and pushing yourself to the very limits with no margin for error or unforeseen things that will come up and you can't account for ahead of time. Your job and this pace is stressful in itself... but, on some level....it is also stimulating which feeds this need having ADHD.
What I see is here is a trade off here between these things: time, energy level/capacity , stimulation and stress, anxiety and fatigue. This is the contributing factor for your self fulfilling prophecy right here. The need for stimulation is your ADHD. The by product of it is filling up time and biting off more than you can chew. The side effects are fatigue and stress and the internal pressure (insecurity and fear) that this creates in you ie: anxiety.
Since you said you have not been in many relationships and have been operating without one (the inexperience as you say).......add into this scenario into your lifestyle change and all additions to this already full schedule.
The key words here are time and space and they are already full. The is little or no time or space here since it is already allocated before by your original choice when you were single. This is definitely an ADHD thing we do....for sure without question or hesitation....this is one that I struggle and have struggled with all my life. I think you need to step back and re-examine this one more closely because of it.
This is critical ADHD error in thinking here is that you will be able to do everything you want to do in too little time, not enough available energy (personal energy and capacity), discounting or not predicting your own limitations (anxiety, stress and fatique)....and not factoring in the diminishing returns or inverse dynamic curve of your performance level and decrease output in your ability over time.
The cause ADHD and the need for stimulation = impulsivity hyper or high levels of output > fatigue < stress and anxiety = lower success rates = fear and insecurities ie: not worthy of love and the self full filling prophecies. You are your own worse enemy here. You've created a situation all your life in things you've done that keep playing this scenario over and over repeatedly with the same results with limited success. This only perpetuates and reconfirms your failure rate and your own insecurities which also feeds the feelings of not being worthy of love from the problems that this creates for other people or people you are with who have to deal with the fall out from this. Eventually.....they will reject you for it since you have little time, space, energy and attention for them. It makes everyone else feel like they are put on the back burner in your life and eventually....they get tired of it since they are willing and wanting to give more (and do) than you put into them and your relationships with them because of this across the board on all levels. This is what makes you look selfish or self absorbed even if by nature you are not..... and are a very caring person with only good intentions and a fully working conscience in respect to other people.
Read it and weep......this is what I do and have done most of my life and this is what I see you doing too. I know this one like the back of my hand so I can say this with a great deal of confidence in predicting one of your major sources for many of your personal conflicts. The inexperience as you're calling it....is not having a successful experience in managing this and being in a successful relationship because of this.
You have a lifetime of experience with this one already....being a loving person, falling in love and treating another person the way you would like to be treated takes no special talent or experience in knowing how to do that....I'm sure by this time in your life (hopefully)....you already know about everything you need to know?
When it comes to your F feeling like things aren't even and she does more than you.....look no further.
When it comes to your F (now or in the future) feeling alone and neglected......look no further.
When it comes to the anger and resentment that you read in this forum........look no further.
When it comes to not being able to do everything (and meet all of your responsibilities to yourself and everyone else) and then not having enough left to give to your relationship......look no further.
This is why you fail and this is why this experience makes you insecure and makes you feel anxious about the future. Your inexperience and trepidation comes from this experience and you have all the information you could possibly need to know within it
The less obvious Straterra (medication) I tried Sraterra before i went on Adderall. I found the side effects were horrible for me and it made me tired, moody and changed my personality in ways that I found intolerable. For me it did nothing but make everything worse including my ability to manage my emotions. It changed my internal workings in my head in a way that I found disturbing and unnatural and I went off it after a trial period because it. To say it weirded me out was an understatement. But again.....this was me. Have you considered this? I think you need to go and check all the side effects again and see if any of the things you have noticed about yourself have changed since you started taking it. Here is the list of known side effects...
anxiety, irritability
hostility, aggressiveness
impulsive behavior
panic attacks
trouble sleeping, insomnia
mania
suicidal thoughts
Other possible side effects of Strattera include:
nausea, stomach upset, vomiting
decreased appetite
dizziness
mood swings
fatigue
dry mouth
constipation
If you have not tried another medication like Adderall (stimulants) I high recommend you at least consider it. The difference for me across the board in all areas was like night and day.......bad vs good only. To the point.....Strattera had "0" benefit for me and only made everything worse. From what I gather.....the only concerns or fears about Adderall or stimulants are not that they have not been proven and tested over many years to work.....the fear is about abuse and for children taking them for the rest of their life. In your case......you have many years less to worry about in this case and your are old enough with enough experience and past the age to have this as being a major concern ( or at least as much )
As far as all the different opinions and points of view that people have offered you here already (including my own)....I would use that and refer to these individual points and examples to help you define these finer points and details as you go (as you run into them to pay attention to)....this will help you get clarity over time even if you don't see these things now. Examples are always good if you know what you are looking for. If you are too overwhelmed with too much too fast....that's because you haven't processed this already and these are things to consider before you notice many of these things yourself to have come to any conclusions yet.
What I just pointed out to you is the Elephant in the room. If you cannot see it after my description then you need to go back and look at it again until you can....as many times as needed until you do. This is where many of the spouses who come here to this forum are..... and are with someone who refuses or cannot see this elephant as being the major contributing source for most of the resulting behaviors and problems both emotionally and logistically speaking either and are in denial of this seemingly simple and easy to understand problem in the first place.
Take what you need for now and don't get hung up on the rest. If you stay on course and keep trying to learn and improve.....you will come to these things in your won time as you go a little bit at a time. In other words......you will know it when you get there but you can't rush or make this happen any faster than that up to a point.
The bottom line and what you are looking to find is to change something here....specifically. One way to look at this is to make this other human being the most important priority in your life. If that is what you are inexperienced in doing.....take out a piece of paper and write down all the life goals and priorities and look at where you put your F. If she is not at the top of the list then you should go back over it and re-evaluate this and see what is more important?
The rest of these things as I mentioned as just low hanging fruit and you can pick those one at a time and work your way up the tree.
I hope this helps you sort this out:)