Like most people on this site, I have been to hell and back with my ADHD spouse. After much discussion, I believe that he is finally beginning to understand how his ADHD is affecting me. I am hopeful that I have finally reached him (fingers crossed). I basically let him know that unless something changed immediately that i was ready to leave the marriage. He is now trying to learn techniques to make him more empathetic. He is writing things down so that he doesn't forget. He's trying to hold himself accountable for delivering on his promises. He has stopped demanding "over-the-top" sex. He's communicating better with me. He's been doing chores around the house. He seems to really be pushing himself to be a better person. He has been consistent with this for a couple of weeks. It's hard to say at this point whether or not these changes will take root, but I'm hoping... My problem is that he's still not working. We are really struggling financially. I work on commission and have had to push myself harder to try and make more money so that we can survive. I can't keep operating like this. I'm already exhausted. My stress level is at it's max. My next move is to down-size our lives. But more than anything, I need help from him financially. If we had two incomes it would make a big difference. Here's my story http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/hyper-sexuality-adhd-spouse. January will make 3 years that he's been looking for work. Would it be reasonable to give him a deadline to find work or move out? I've done everything that I know to help him find work, but is that really my responsibility? How should I approach this? On the one hand, I'm happy that he's trying (I hope that it's sustained), but I need him to get a job and help us! I invite your thoughts on this matter.
Unemployed ADHD Spouse
Submitted by Laurie1213 on 12/09/2009.
Getting ADD Spouse to work
Submitted by Sueann on
My husband pulled this stuff with me. I eventually figured out he was depressed and made him get treatment for that (or I'd walk). When he still kept losing jobs, his therapist and I, at about the same time, figured out he has ADD as well. We spent 6 months trying to get him treatment for that, but the local mental health agency doesn't treat adult ADD and neither of my 2 jobs offered insurance. Eventually, I said I'd pay for his meds if he would work. But the first med was a disaster and he lost another job and spent 5 months without even applying for a job. Finally, our marriage counselor got through to him that it was not fair for me to work 2 jobs and do all the housework without seeing an effort from him. He went and applied at Wal-Mart, expecting not to get hired, so he could say "See, even Wal-Mart won't hire me" but they did, and then he got a job he had applied for nearly a year previously. Now he's happily employed and we have insurance to pay for his meds.
Admittedly, the job market was better 2 years ago when this happeded, and most people who say "We'll keep your application on file" really don't. But I think the key for my husband was getting through to him that I would walk if he didn't at least try. It may take a good therapist, as it did with my husband.
He says he's been trying
Submitted by Laurie1213 on
Thanks Sueann. He says that he's been trying, that he's submitted applications all over. I'm at work all day. I don't have time to babysit him. I've tried to help him with his resume and his interviewing skills. He says that he doesn't like being home all day. But should it have taken him 3 yrs to find a job? I'm like you. I have my full time job and a second small business that brings in a little extra income each month to cover a couple utility bills. How do I hold him accountable? Should I have him make me a list of the places he's applied? I don't want to do that because it puts me in the role of being his mother. He keeps telling me that he's trying. But he hasn't even had any interviews.
It's amazing how resourceful we are
Submitted by nrparents on
I notice we spouses seem to be hardworking and willing to take on more, both outside and inside the home! My husband has been unemployed since July and is "working" in a telesales position for a small, startup group travel organization. He receives no salary and has had not one sale, yet he gets angry when I suggest he look for a part-time job that actually earns something. I have always been the stable rock, earning steadily more at a government job. I am now starting an additional part-time job. My husband suggested we buy my son a $90 gift for Xmas, and I replied by asking him if he plans to get a part-time job. He said "no" and I said then a $90 gift is not in our budget. As long as our husbands know we will pick up the bills, they just relax.
shoot for a target
Submitted by arwen on
I've seen plenty of people who "just relax" if they know their spouse will pick up the bills, both with and without ADD. Although I'm a person who basically likes and needs to work, not everybody is the same. I have a cousin whose mission in life is to sit on her porch and eat bon-bons -- she found a guy who is willing to pay for everything and she just relaxes. They have no children, she has no responsibilities. Yet nobody seems to think this is strange.
It seems to me that the real problem is when there is a disconnect between the two partners' expectations regarding what each should contribute. In my cousin's case, neither she nor her husband expect her to do anything, and they both expect him to earn all the money -- no disconnect. In your case, your husband and you are quite clearly not on the same page. This can happen in any marriage situation, ADD or not.
Where ADD gets into the picture, it seems to me, is that it makes it much easier for the ADD partner to be distracted by whatever captures their attention and to not think about the need for, or what would constitute, an equitable division of responsibilities. If this condition persists for an extended period of time, they tend to come to consider it the norm -- so, I've found it's usually desirable to "nip it in the bud" as much as possible -- when it looks like my husband and I seem to have a significant disconnect in expectations, I make sure we discuss and negotiate some kind of compromise with specific expectations, goals and timeframes that we can agree on, and what does and doesn't constitute acceptable grounds for any possible renegotiation.
When my husband and I were in a similar situation (he was having trouble finishing his college degree, which in turn was keeping him from full-time wage-earning), I sat down with him as soon as I realized he was not making the progress we'd expected, and asked him what *he* thought was a reasonable period of time in which he should be expected to complete the degree -- did he need one term? two? a full year? After discussion of his remaining requirements and the course schedule, and the problems he'd been having, we set a mutually agreed upon deadline of a year, which he felt very confident was a conservative goal. But because I knew that he was not very good at such estimates, I made sure he really analyzed it carefully, in detail, before accepting the agreement. I also made it clear that this was a critical agreement, a dealbreaker. No more lollygagging -- I was going to hold his feet to the fire. He did meet the deadline -- by the skin of his teeth, but met.
In my marriage, everything has to be explicit. I have to tell him exactly how I feel, and why. I have to pry out of him exactly how he feels, and why. Because our brains work differently, we can't assume that what each *thinks* ought to be obvious to the other, really *is* so clear. It would be so nice if my husband could recognize what he ought to do on his own, but over 40 years of behaving differently before he was treated for his ADD makes that pretty impossible for him to do now. He wants to do what's right, he just can't figure out for himself what that is, so we have to talk about it and spell it out.
I find this kind of approach tends to inject a greater degree of reality into my husband's thinking and behavior. If you haven't tried something along these lines, it may help your spouse put things in a more useful context. I speak from experience when I say that your taking on more than you already were with your fulltime job is likely to have serious impacts on you -- I understand why you feel it's a necessity right now, but your husband needs to understand that it is only viable as a very termporary expedient, and that in fairness and care of you, he needs to up his contribution asap.
deadline for getting job?
Submitted by arwen on
Laurie, you asked whether you should give your husband a deadline about getting a job -- that's not an easy question to address. Obviously a deadline can be either positive or negative -- it can give a target to shoot for, but it can also create a lot of stress.
My son has ADD (non-hyperactive, like my husband), and his biggest problem in school was always with longterm projects. Unless an assignment was due in only one or two days, he'd feel like he had oodles of time and no need to rush. Then, of course, a day or two before the project was due, he'd be dashing around like his hair was on fire trying to get it done. He couldn't seem to deal with the idea of setting intermediate goals at all. I had to sit down with him and get him to analyze the project by asking questions, so we could develop a strategy for getting it done that included intermediate goals and deadlines. Some projects of course broke down into a straightforward sequence of steps that could be divided up neatly across the project time allotment. Other projects were different in nature -- sometimes we'd determine which were the easy parts, and set a real early deadline for that, and work our way from step to step along the way. One time we actually put together a PERT chart to outline the intermediate steps. Once he had examples of how to tackle project planning, and how to measure his progress, he was able to do it better by himself.
I guess I sort of see your husband's job search as a project that needs to be planned, implemented and monitored. You mentioned that you have helped him with his resume and interviewing skills -- that's wonderful. But does your husband have any kind of network of contacts that he is maintaining? Does he utilize any resources for finding the kinds of businesses that might be interested in his skills and check them regularly? Does he have any access to job opening databases online and get notices from them? Does he send out a minimum number of resumes to previously uncontacted employers each week? These are all components to a job search that could be addressed in a similar way as steps to a project, and you and your husband could set deadlines and/or weekly goals for them (I know, I'm unemployed myself at the moment and was fortunate enough to get some outplacement support to help me with my job search -- the outplacement firm covered this kind of approach). That might produce more results and less stress than setting a general, longterm date for getting a job. And they may seem less daunting, because they are more concrete and smaller in scope. The more you can break a big task down into simpler pieces, and tackle them one at a time, the easier it tends to be to grapple with it. The progress may initially be somewhat slower than you might ordinarily expect or want, but once the plan is in place and following through on it becomes a routine, results are more likely to come than without a plan.
If you and your husband need help putting such a plan together, some communities have networking groups that you can join that can provide some tips and outlines. Or your state's unemployment services may be able to provide information that would help plan these intermediate steps.
You ask if you should make your husband prepare a list of the places he's applied. Based on the outplacement guidance I was given, he should already *have* such a list that he can show you. If he doesn't, he needs to start keeping track of this somehow. I don't see anything wrong in you sitting down with him for 15 or 20 minutes once a week and your asking him to share with you what he's done on his job search. Perhaps it would help to think of yourself as his project manager overseeing a project, instead of his mom. This is a reasonable role for you to temporarily take, since clearly he isn't managing this well himself and it is having an adverse affect on your family. A weekly review also gives you an opportunity to present possibilities he may not have considered on his own. For example, you might notice that all the companies on his list are large corporations, and suggest he try some mid-size businesses next time rather than more large ones. If he joins a local networking group, you can ask him to share whatever he learns at his meetings (which will sometimes be nothing, but sometimes may be really worthwhile). Again, over time, he should need less and less "supervision" as he becomes comfortable in executing these steps. If he's unable to demonstrate any progress with these intermediate steps (which should at least lead to some interviews), then you may want to consider applying some other additional pressure or motivation.
I went through a difficult time the last time my husband job-hunted before he was diagnosed with ADD. (For him, interviewing is the big bogeyman.) I was in the middle of a difficult pregnancy, and working fulltime, and because I didn't understand his problems, I was not very sympathetic, I'm afraid. My pregnancy created a very real deadline, and as he continued jobless while I got bigger and rounder, my yelling and screaming and threats about leaving him really escalated. It worked, and he ended up in a really great job, but there were a lot of long-lasting negative impacts as well -- I really don't recommend it except as a last resort!!
It sounds tiring...
Submitted by Laurie1213 on
Thanks Arwen. These are some great tips. But I have to admit, from where I stand, it all sounds tiring. I'm already exhausted. I said that I wasn't going to focus on him anymore. I neglected myself for far too long. Although I believe that the steps that you mentioned would be helpful, the idea of having to go through that with him sounds like more work for me. I will try to look at the bigger picture and say that it will be something that I can help him with that will benefit the entire family.
He has signed up for several temp agencies. He mostly posts his resume on Monster.com along with tons of other people. I told him that his resume was getting lost. We have come across several local job openings and I've suggested that maybe he should walk in and introduce himself. This way, they can put a face with a name. Part of his problem is that he has a criminal record from 22 years ago (he was 18, he's 40 now) that follows him around. On paper he might not look like the best candidate, but in person he can make a much better impression. Another problem is that he doesn't have a long history of work experience in any particular area. He has worked jobs but never really staying in any particular field. He has been trying to go to school, but he's taking 1-2 classes per semester. it would take years for him to finish (he just started this year). Right now he's struggling with it because, In my opinion, he hasn't been able to manage his time properly.
I told him that he needed to at least get a part-time job. He can either go to school at night and work during the day or vice versa. I will sit down with him and we can outline some steps that he needs to take. I feel like I would have to take the lead and do some research to see what type of support our local unemployment office offers. Ugh!!! I don't mean to be negative, but it really sounds like more work for me. I've asked him on several occasions to go to the unemployment office to see what programs they had available to help him find employment. He's never followed up on it. I feel like now I have to really stay on him to do it.
(Deep Breath...Exhale...) Ok. I'll talk to him, tell him my expectations of him, explain to him how important it is to our family that he gets (and keeps) a job. I will let him know that I expect that he will follow all of the steps that he and I outline to achieve that goal. I will let him know that his not following our agreed upon steps is a deal breaker for me.
Claiming disability - consequences?
Submitted by mj123 on
I am reading all of the above comments wondering about our situation - my husband is on corrective action with his company - on track to get fired if he doesn't get caught up. They know that he was recently diagnosed with ADD. He tried taking ritalin while starting on the corrective action plan (for two weeks made great progress) then he switched to a time release ritalin and everything took a nosedive. He became unfocused and angry - he switched back to the regular ritalin, upped the dosage but by then, was so worked up about being behind again - he is in serious depression and at this point is having trouble overcoming the tidal wave of work sitting on his desk. His bosses and the HR rep have suggested short term disability. Our psychiatrist has said that such a step will have long-lasting consequences - as in, he may be uninsurable in the future. The STD form will become "public record" as far as the insurance companies are concerned - even if it is not approved - the form is still in his record. The HR rep suggested that while this information is supposed to be confidential - it can "get out" and follow him to other potential job opportunities. Our psychiatrist says that the best way to deal with his situation is not to file for disability and to go into the office on the ritalin and anti-depression medicine and slog through the pile and deal with it. If he can get it stabilized then he can start looking for a new job, either within or outside of the company. My husband wants a break and is tempted by the notion of paid disability leave - but both myself and the psychiatrist are concerned that this will lead to further depression - not healing. Our situation seems to be full of no easy choices - any suggestions or has anybody else been in this situation prior to the job loss and what did you do or wish you had done differently?
it is tiring; part-time job could be a key
Submitted by arwen on
Laurie, you are right that it is tiring! Believe me, I really sympathize with you. I spent 15 years being tired, the last five running on empty almost all the time. You're absolutely right that it's not good for you. But unfortunately, if there's an easier way to dig your family out of the hole you're in while keeping it intact, I'm afraid I don't know what it is -- I certainly didn't find it, and I'm afraid I haven't seen an alternative in any other ADD family situations like yours that I've been able to observe.
But I really meant it when I suggested that you should only need to spend about 20 minutes a week supervising your husband's job search progress. With my husband, just the very fact that I am regularly monitoring a project tends to produce better results -- he *knows* he's going to have to report, he *knows* he's going to have to demonstrate progress, he *knows* I'm going to be dissatisfied if there is none, and he *knows* he's not going to like the consequences. So the process tends to focus his attention on it more and that makes it more likely something will actually get done. We don't have to discuss the whole project each time -- we focus on just whatever step or level he's at now and where he's supposed to be headed next. The only part that takes any significant time is putting together the initial steps/plan -- that may take a few hours, and that part definitely is more work for me, as you have recognized -- but after that, the rest is maintenance. Obviously, I don't know if your husband will respond in the same way, but I'm not sure you have a lot to lose in trying it.
A part-time job may be a really worthwhile solution for your husband. My son has struggled with full-time college, as well as full-time jobs. But now he is going to school part-time and working part-time, and the combination seems to be working out really well for him. There's less pressure in each portion of his life than if he was doing them full-time, and he has more variety. The studies are a relief from his job, and his job is a relief from his studies.
Good luck -- my prayers are with you!!
OMG my husband too is out of
Submitted by hope09 on
OMG my husband too is out of work. I run my own business on top of another career. He refuses to get a job and gets angry at me when I mention it! We aren't in therapy right now. Is that the best way to get him to realize he needs to work?
I worked 18 hours last friday and he went out until 7am in the morning! Where is the partnership...the help!? I feel for you and its good to have support on here. Unfortunately I can't offer good advice bc I'm going thru the same thing!
My hubby is out of work, too, but...
Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on
That's been due to other health problems. We had to move to a different state (Arizona) to get him physically able to work. He's actually got a pretty strong desire to work. That macho thing about providing for his family.
Like you, I'm exhausted. I have chronic fatigue and I'm working part-time myself, plus working on a blog that I'm trying to grow so that perhaps one day I can draw a meager income from that. So I understand about being perenially exhausted and feeling like the next thing will be the absolute last straw.
My reaction would be that a deadline is a bad idea. He'll feel backed into a corner and could act out as a result. I think there are other ways to be firm and consistent about the work thing without an actual deadline. One big one would be to find your state's version of the Department of Vocational Rehabilitation. This place works with people who have disabilities -- ADD counts -- and helps them figure out work they can do, creates a plan to reach the goals they set, etc.
One of the biggest things about ADD, I'm finding, is that it creates a very specific set of skills. They excel in plenty of atmospheres, but not a lot of detailed work. Sales and fast-paced jobs, though, feel like heaven. So you might want to have him really figure out what he wants to do -- and be sure it's realistic that he could last in that job -- and make him only apply for those. So many ADDers have low self-esteem from years of being told they act/think wrong, that more rejection is going to kill any real initiative they have. The more he applies, the more rejection he sees. And if he has a spotty job history (changing jobs a lot/getting fired) then work is just another way he can fail himself and you. So you may need to address fears he has about not being to hold down a job after so long. I think the idea of starting with part-time work is a good one. He can ease himself back in to some routine.
I'm glad that your husband has snapped into reality a bit. It's easy to get too comfortable in certain situations. I often have to call my husband out on being able to go and play with his friends, while I'm working my contract work or writing my blog or reading & commenting on other blogs to get more traffic to my site... Then he reminds me that one of the main reasons he's out and about is because he physically can't be still. He's antsy and uncomfortable. That brought me up short a little bit.
Also, if your husband has trouble with writing things down, consider getting a phone with alarms you can set or whatever. And if you want him to do things, I would suggest making very explicit lists and talking to him about where to start. That's a huge problem for my husband. He'll happily do what I ask, but he often sees so many things at once, he feels overwhelmed so just doesn't do anything. It can still be really frustrating -- you do all this work and then you still have to hold his hand to get him to help you -- but you'll see a lot more results if you find out what the biggest impediments are to his helping out around the house/finding a job.
I'm so sorry that things have gotten this bad. It's always so hard to look back and wonder why you put up with such an untenable situation for so long. (The answer -- because I love him and we have a life together -- always seems a little frail when you're exhausted and feeling completely used up.) I think a big thing is just that even non-ADD men don't always bother to put themselves in their wives' shoes. If they don't want to do something, they don't. (Unless you specifically ask/prod them about it.) So they assume that if we do all this work, it must be something we are okay with. It sounds ridiculous out loud, but I guess it makes sense in their head.
I'm glad your husband has mellowed a bit on the sex thing. I think guys have a hard time understanding how much our feelings permeate sex. So if we feel resentful toward him, we don't want to be intimate. But then the less sex we have, the more tangled up in resentment and anger it becomes. Sometimes, it can be an excellent release of emotions and hormones and can put some of the resentment in perspective. There are times I basically say, Oh what the hell. Afterward, things don't seem like such a big deal and I'm less angry in general. That said, though, I've also lived with a guy who used to basically guilt me into sex all the time. While I was supporting him and doing most of the housework. So I understand on another level how "what the hell" sex can be absolutely not an option.