I have been seeing a wonderful man for nearly 2 years. He is 35; I'm much older. I love him very much and (as much as anyone can know another's heart and mind) truly believe the feeling is mutual. I have seen many signs that point to adult ADHD and these have accumulated to the point where I feel I need to bring up the topic of ADHD with him and ask whether he thinks this may be the cause of some of our relationship issues and his life challenges generally. Examples: Failing to follow through -- hardly ever calls when he says he will, couldn't get the paperwork together for a project I tried to help him with several times, broken promises (for example, he offered to sell me an unneeded family car and fix it up for me; after 3 months of delays -- needed more fixes, 2 lost titles, etc. etc. etc. -- I found another car on my own but several months later he has not paid me back a cent of the money I gave him), shows up unannounced saying he lost another cellphone with my number in it (3 times), lies on impulse (maybe to tell me what he thinks I want to hear?), forgets simple facts like whether I have a cat (he met the 2 I did have but they died last year), pops in for short visits but never seems to have the time or inclination for a real date, always working hard but always broke, seems totally clueless to my feelings most of the time, says he feels he has let me down but doesn't change ... The good stuff: deep sexual and emotional intimacy despite all of the above, faithful, spiritually in tune with me, great sense of humor, very bright guy who's fun to talk with about nonpersonal things, talented and successful in his field.
After yet another no-show, with no explanation, for a date a couple of weeks ago, I decided it was time to bring up communication issues next time I saw him. About the broken date, I asked what happened and he said he was on call for work. I asked if he remembered we had plans and if he got my "How's your day looking? Please let me know" check-in voicemail that morning. He said yes to both. I asked why he couldn't have taken a few seconds to text or call to let me know he had to cancel. He said when he's on call "everything else goes into another compartment." He seems to have really heard me (although he was on a mission to find something and checking his phone most of the time). He repeated that he feels he has let me down and knows it must always seem like he just comes to me when he needs something. I asked if I have ever let him down and he said no, I'm always there for him. He repeated my concerns back to me: feeling demeaned by lack of common courtesy when he needs to cancel, wanting real communication instead of 1-word answers to questions about how things are going with him, wanting him to really make time for me instead of squeezing me in between appointments, etc. He told me he loves me deeply but there's always so much going on.
Since we had the talk last week, he has texted me once "just to check on you" and that was sweet. But if this relationship is to continue without frustrating both of us, I really believe I need to mention the possibility of adult ADHD and perhaps share a self-assessment with him so he can decide if this is where many of his life challenges are coming from. Can anyone suggest a loving, nonconfrontational way to do this? I don't want to present it as something that's wrong with him, just that maybe he has different brain chemistry that leads him to organize thoughts and process information differently than most people. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
Meerkat, you might be right,
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Meerkat, you might be right, he might have ADHD. Or you might be wrong, his persistent behaviors that trouble you may be due to something else. In any event, bringing up that you think he has ADHD, if there hasnt been professional assessment possibly will get the two of you into the uncomfortable situation of you sounding like you're labeling him with a label that may have things attached to it, in his mind, that you didnt intend, to which he would be reacting. Labeling people is usually a very fraught business. What if he does have it? All he'd need to do to shut the conversation down is say, no, I dont.
How about trying a period of time in which you tell him exactly what you want him to do, incident by incident, and when he does or doesnt do it, tell him outcome, as you see it, describing outcome in something other than your feelings. Especially the good outcomes. Delphine has written recently about appreciative feed back.
And in the meantime, do what you're doing, keep learning about ADHD, because if not now, later, yes you will need to get dependable, consistent understanding of your partner's persistent limitations and capabilities. Just as he will yours.
I think Melissa Orlov has posted fairly recently about denial over in her blog area.
I'd get the money that you gave him for the car back. It would depend on what you and he agreed was your financial role in those repairs he did, but if your money had no agreed on role in those, he rightfully should give it back. It will be awkward perhaps to tell him that he needs to return it, but between adults, i believe that monetary transactions need to be transparent and up to the behavior standards of monetary transactions with strangers, or it can sour a relationship. Unfortunately, money is symbolic...
Thanks for the helpful advice
Submitted by meerkat on
Thank you, NowOrNever! I continue to give this a lot of thought and am doing more reading (4 books and many online articles and assessments so far). I agree there needs to be a period of communicating incident by incident before bringing up ADHD and have decided to take the wait-and-see approach for another month or so. And I may see a therapist knowledgeable about this condition on my own, to discuss the impact of my love's behaviors on me, before bringing up ADHD to him. But I truly feel we will have to have this conversation at some point. When we do, I plan to begin by mentioning its positive aspects first, and some of the well-known, ultra-successful people like Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Stephen Hawking, whose brains are wired in this way (especially people in sports since he's an athlete). I also plan to give him a self-assessment (Dr. Daniel Amen's seems most thorough, other recommendations welcome) and ask him if he'd be willing to fill it out in private when he has time. If he's willing, I will ask him to let me know if he thinks ADHD might explain some of our issues and his personal life challenges. And tell him if he rules out ADHD, I won't mention it again. If he's not willing to even consider the possibility, I will ask him what we can do together to make our relationship easier for us both.
As for appreciative feedback, I give him this consistently. For example, later in the day after our conversation about the things that frustrate me, I texted him thanks for the talk and said I think we understand each other better because of it. The next day I called to see how he was doing and thanked him for being a great listener. I know he has a difficult life and I do my best to be supportive. A few months into our relationship, he said I'd be his friend for life and thanked me for taking such good care of him. But both partners need to take care of each other, and my needs must be met if it's not to turn into a parent-child dynamic that wouldn't be good for either of us.
About the money -- he acknowledges that he owes me (it's a fairly large sum given my budget) and says he will pay me back but he has made no actual plan to do this. He says every time he gets paid the money goes to back bills. I have offered to help him sell the car to get my money out of it but he says he can't because he doesn't have the title yet. He's lost two titles so far. Next time I see him, I plan to ask what we can work out to get me paid back and see what happens.
Bottom line, with all the love in the world, I can't go on forever if it's a no-win situation for me.
Meerkat
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I agree with your bottom line. You sound like you're proceeding judiciously.
Perhaps a therapist, dedicated to you, who is more than superficially knowledgeable about ADHD can be your coach during the period in which you talk things through with your partner. For very good past life reasons and perhaps for the person's lack of theory of mind of other people, if that's going on, I gather that some people with ADHD are pretty fast-reaction defensive, if they think they're being negatively criticized. As we all can be, but this kind of reaction does come up in the literature. Hence someone professionally knowledgeable might help with how to open the conversation, what to say... just an idea.
Oh, money. Well, I'm coming at remarks about your situation from having lived through my 20s through 50s, and over those years having lived through a situation like you've got about it that was a lulu. My very strong feeling, but it needn't be yours, you'll have your own views, of course, is that any 35 year old man who goes to work, does work for what he's paid, makes a salary and who before the relationship had to deal with bills, costs, and decisions to spend, has the wherewithal in his personality to pay back what he owes. Since he has the life skills and understanding to pay you back, he's choosing not to pay you back. So I'm not much liking, on your behalf, the excuses that he's making. They are trivial ones, and by the way, where did the money you gave him go? Did he spend it already?
I've had a couple people in my life use money as oh, I don't know, something that they thought people should give them, or didn't have to be responsible about, counting on my generosity and patience....and the money was only vaguely offered to be returned but never returned It likely isn't your situation, but that money and the appeal for more money was a tether to me that I didn't volunteer.... I got out of one situation by just writing off the so call loan and clearly shutting off supply of future money.
I think money can be deeply symbolic of other dynamics. It wouldn't be great, if you're asking him to show up and fulfill promises he makes or finish things he starts with you, in other parts of your relation, for him to be simultaneously acting out not fulfilling his adult responsibility of returning money. That would be mixed signals about follow-through. You're wise and will know what's best to do, that's what comes across to me.
For me, your partner's handling of it would be a big flag alerting to consider other things in relation, too. There's an old saying, that you can tell a lot about a person, despite what they say about themselves by how they handle
1) waiters and waitresses...if they act like jerks with them, they'll eventually show similar comportment in other relations
2) spouses and GFs/BFs... ditto
3) children...ditto
and 4) money....ditto
Very best. Let us know how it's going. I like your screen name.
Now
Therapy and money
Submitted by meerkat on
Hey, NowOrNever, thanks again for your wisdom. I like your screen name too -- and it really "speaks to my condition" with my partner! (I'm meerkat because of my love for those critters and also because others have commented on my meerkat-like stance when especially alert.) I've also been through the life stages you speak of; I'm in my 60s now. I have a nearby therapist in mind, one who is older and probably wiser than I, and who is knowledgeable about ADHD. I do plan to ask her about how to approach the conversation with my love, along with tips on getting my own mind straight and deciding under what conditions this relationship can/can't continue for the sake of my own mental wellness. I'm training for a new work-from-home job next week and then will need to focus a lot on starting the job, so I think I'll be consulting the therapist about a month from now. That timeframe will also allow me to see where things are going generally relationship-wise.
About the money, next time I see my love I'm going to tell him we need to work out a definite plan for getting me paid back. The money was spent on fixing up the car for me. I have told him I can't afford to be paying for two cars and only driving one. He knows I've been vastly underemployed and hurting for money for months now. I plan to tell him that since he loves me and I matter to him, payback has to be one of his priorities. I also feel the need to say that despite all the life challenges everyone faces, we humans generally allot time, money and such to the people and situations that are important to us, so I expect him to set a firm, reasonable schedule for payback and to honor it. Since this is just like a failure-to-deliver issue with any contractor not otherwise involved in one's life, I can charge it off as a bad debt for tax purposes (but I sure as heck won't tell him this). I went through massive money issues with my ex-husband of long ago -- he had 20 jobs in 6 years while my career was rising so I paid for 98% of everything and that eventually led to the loss of respect and self-respect that ended the marriage. So I definitely don't wish to go down that road again!
Like your list at the end -- so true!