Lastnight my ADHD husband tried to pick a fight with me in the store. He was tired from working long hours and was clearly a grumpy child in need of a nap. He's also as violent as a 5yr old, mind you. He'll punch walls, swear enough to make a sailor blush, swing his arms wildly, and give people death stares when HE hits THEM. Not to mention try to pick fights. He started to pick one with ME last night, by claiming that I was looking at the space between his eyes? He looked like he was about to raise his fist and sock me one. How on earth he came to that assumption I have no idea (I wasn't even looking there?), and I have no idea why even looking at the space between someone's eyes is a bad thing? I'd been trying to calm him down for the span of 15 minutes, but when he finally knocked the item I was holding out of my hand and onto the floor, I had had it. I picked it up, put it back, then promptly left the store and walked home, leaving him in the dust. I seem to remember he shouted at me that it was MY fault, and not his - one of his catch phrases. So we returned separately, I ate my dinner silently, then I then spent the night in the spare bedroom and haven't talked to him since.
I've posted elsewhere before... my husband is nearly 29 and still goes about his daily life with untreated ADHD. (and like everyone else here, it drives me nuts)
I've had to forgo so many things because of him. I gave up on having a wedding ceremony, a honeymoon, and sometimes I just can't even leave the house with him. And we've only been married for nearly a year! I can't believe how quickly everything flipflopped from the day he romanced me. Not to mention how much of my life has honestly turned to shit since he came into it. I've read up on ADHD to try to understand him, and I really try hard. I think he honestly loves to punch and fight. I have tried to avert his energy in good ways, I have tried to keep thinking and talking positively... but he lies and makes accusations, all just to try to provoke me! I hate to blame the music, but he does listen to Heavy Metal / Death Metal / Black Metal on a regular basis. He's also been telling me lately that he wants to go to a concert just so he can punch and kick people in the mosh pit.
In this past year he has also been bugging me to start a family and have kids. But he has ZERO respect for me lately, and he can't even take care of himself. I don't want to be a mother to him and children at the same time. His violent behavior is unacceptable for parenting to begin with. I've also said that I will NOT stop my birth control until he actually see's a doctor about his ADHD. I believe the last time he went for a diagnosis was in elementary school.
I guess I am hoping this mini rant will give me the sanity to deal with him when he wakes up today.
more than ADHD
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Please dear, this is much more than ADHD. This is abuse, physical, verbal, mental and emotional. AdHD does not make people physically violent. A red flag went up when he said that him getting angry and knocking the box out of your hand was YOUR fault. That is one of the typical excuses abusers use to justify their anger.
Don't buy into his Scare tactics, but please start reading about abusers. Dr. PHIL HAS A GREAT websiite that dedcribes the differences between abuse and non abuse.
I'm very concerned for you. Hugs and prayers,
Dede
sigh
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
I'm afraid of it being abuse, that is for sure. While he doesnt really hit me, the emotional and verbal are enough. I've read up that adhd boys often resort to violence since they dont know how to control their anger. Since he is Japanese, the society allows him to be a child until 30. I'm not exactly sure what I should do. Setup a counseling session?
Get out now
Submitted by tfarmer on
Before it becomes more complicated. He is superimposing his insecurity, weakness, and mental illness on you. It will get much worse before it gets better. You can read many posts here about how many loving people have put up with, what are essentially sub human, almost animal like behavior for many years. Leave now.
These folks live in great cathedrals of bullshit they create for themselves where they are king ( or queen ) to make themselves feel normal. Once you enter you become their subject, not a partner. You will spend many hours challenging this and trying to get him to admit that. Very few ever do.
Run.
Its not possible to get
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
Its not possible to get better, at all?
please do not add children into this mix
Submitted by dedelight4 on
You are wise to stay on birth control until your husband gets help. A child will only make this situation more tense than it is. You cant fix your husband. He needs professional help. But his level of violence is scary, and unstable. Protect yourself. I agree with the other girl who posted. Get out and get some help if you can. Im sorry you are in this. I know you love him, but take care of yourself
Uugs
DEde
I couldn't agree more. That's
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
I couldn't agree more. That's why I am sticking to my guns on this. I'm 34 and actually not opposed to living a child free life. My two cats supply me with enough love, and my husband acts the part of a child well enough.
Only when he throws a childlike temper tantrum is when he is actually dangerous, and this is why I can't take him out in public. I'm amazed that he somehow manages to do his job (teacher) with minimal hassle. Altho I suspect he saves up the frustrations for me when he gets home.
It's kind of sad that everyone's advice is to run... As much as I want to run, I don't think its the right thing to do. I realize this means a very torturous and bumpy road from here to eternity...
Don't Sell Yourself Short M
Submitted by kellyj on
What you said here is telling.....I've had to forgo so many things because of him. I gave up on having a wedding ceremony, a honeymoon, and sometimes I just can't even leave the house with him. And we've only been married for nearly a year! I can't believe how quickly everything flipflopped from the day he romanced me.......As much as I want to run, I don't think its the right thing to do. I realize this means a very torturous and bumpy road from here to eternity......
I agree with the other things that have been said here. T farmer is right.....a very unhealthy dynamic is already being established here and it fits the pattern of abuse.....you are already rationalizing and making concessions for his behavior and using you own moral compass to support betraying yourself and what you feel you deserve. I think you deserve better than this and making excuses for him and resigning yourself to a life of living in a state of deprivation (self imposed) is not at all healthy for you and it will only get worse if this is what it's like now at the beginning of your relationship? In this case.....I think you should be focusing on yourself and what you want for yourself instead of settling for this kind of abusive behavior and then putting your foot down or else.....leave.
I also think there is more than just ADHD involved here and this is not something you will be able to manage by yourself. He needs help and your not the one who is going to help him.....it won't work. Just my two bits.
J
Fear an Intimidation
Submitted by kellyj on
These two go hand in hand. One used to insight the other in this case. I mentioned getting past fear in order to make good decisions and know what you really want for yourself in another thread and how fear clouds your thinking. If this is the dynamic your in and your H has learned to use this method to control other people or get his needs met (as it sounds)....the half on your side of the equation is fear itself. Get rid of the fear and he will have no control over you what so ever.
I ran across this just the other day and I thought it was so poignant....I would include it here to add to what I just said....
In 1816 Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to John Adams that discussed the topic of unfounded apprehensions.
"You ask, if I would agree to live my seventy or rather seventy-three years over again? To which I say, yea. I think with you, that it is a good world on the whole; that it has been framed on a principle of benevolence, and more pleasure than pain dealt out to us.
There are, indeed, (who might say nay) gloomy and hypochondriac minds, inhabitants of diseased bodies, disgusted with the present, and despairing of the future; always counting that the worst will happen, because it may happen. To these I say, how much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened! My temperament is sanguine. I steer my bark with Hope in the head, leaving Fear astern."
I think the founding fathers ROCK! :)
J
He is telling you what he's going to do to you
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
If he is 29, he's morally and legally responsible. Period. Do you know what the moral age of accountability is, in Christian tradition? Seven years old. That's the age that for centuries it has been understood that a child's mind and body are developed enough to have conscience and the ability to self control and do right in relation with other people. Other traditions world wide put it on a sliding time scale but definitely by puberty, 11-13. Developmental psychology backs this up, that a child at an early age and through puberty goes through growth in moral life. The world and science cant be wrong on this. There's too much thought and observation about this for all those people to be wrong, that no, a 29 year old man is a pre-conscience toddler, he's not yet of an age to control himself around others. And there are writers in the ancient world that put moral responsibility for one's own behavior even earlier, at the age that babies and toddlers show jealousy or deliberately hurt each other or break something.
You and your husband are in the first year of your marriage. He is showing and telling you that he will treat you this way and worse. Every brand new relation has an ingoing period in which both are laying down habits and experimenting with what works for each, showing more sides than were active in courtship. You, too, are showing him what you are going to do, for the duration, with him. He's teaching you, with his abuse, that you have a role to play in his world, and it is to be abused. He's teaching you to take whatever he does to you. And YOU are teaching him that you will accept abuse when you accept his abuse. After a year, every act of abuse he does against you will be a pop quiz, to test whether you'll permanently be his target and tolerate him or not,
what right thing to do, stay in the marriage? Marriage is not the question here. it's not NORMAL for him to be doing this as a husband. That is not good marriage. Tolerance of abuse is not part of the marriage package.
If a two year old toddler, right in the middle of her or his NORMAL period of acting out as the kid finds his or her own social identity as part of her biological maturation curve can learn to keep her fists to herself and not hit her little brother, and can learn, not to scream in a grocery store if something is frustrating, and get those lessons learned by the age of three, your husband has had 25 more years of life, has a fully developed mind, has been around people, and can too. And he knows it. ADHD is not the problem. Emotional lability does not excuse him. Abusing other people is NOT ADHD. It is Not A build in part of marriage.
You're married, and had and have hopes for being married to him. But that does not mean you have to be physically with him or in the room for his abusing.
if you dont put boundaries on his behavior by removing yourself from his harm, beginning now, and not being weak and backslide into tolerating his mental, verbal and/or physical harm, you're in for worse as time goes on, and his abuse of you will break your spirit
This must be shocking to you. You know other parts of him or you wouldnt have married him.
I strongly recommend that you get yourself, quick, to some offline information and support, and check out everything you've been advised in this thread. Dont believe us, believe trained domestic abuse people.
He's grooming you to take his tantrums. And he's showing you what he intends to keep doing. Please go contact your local domestic abuse group, call their hotline, get support now. If you dont demonstrate to him that you have boundaries about his abuse and that his abusive behavior leads to losses that matter to him, he'll never be motivated to change. He wont magically grow up at the age of 30. Or 40. Dont use magical thinking about that
Stay married. Marriage is not the issue that you brought us. Tackle the issue. At this point dont make it I have to tolerat this because I'm married. No, you dont. Get knowlegeable support and remove yourself from harm. Now. Dont wait And dont cover up his behavior when you get asked about it by the domestic abuse counselors. Tell them what he's been doing.
please, before things get worse.
I'm With You NON
Submitted by kellyj on
Tolerance of abuse is not part of the marriage package. Yes....acceptance does not include abuse. Being able to see it when you are part of it is the hard part. Getting rid of the fear is what makes you able to see it as it's happening. See it for what it is....separate from everything else.
If a two year old toddler, right in the middle of her or his NORMAL period of acting out as the kid finds his or her own social identity as part of her biological maturation curve can learn to keep her fists to herself and not hit her little brother, and can learn, not to scream in a grocery store if something is frustrating, and get those lessons learned by the age of three, your husband has had 25 more years of life, has a fully developed mind, has been around people, and can too. And he knows it.
I hate to say it (because I think this gets thrown out too often here on this forum and incorrectly used to explain many other things...) but this is the definition of Narcissism right here if I'm not mistaken. Someone who operates on a fundamental ( primitive level emotionally like a two year old) is a Narcissist from my understanding of it and on a certain level....they know it but just don't care. That's the scary part. A two year old is a Narcissist by any definition you can use to describe it....but it's normal at that age to be one.....it's not normal to stay that way and most people move past that well before they are an adult as you are saying. Most but not everyone.
I also wanted to add about M's H being a teacher. In that world....he is given Carte Blanche authority and control and can use that to control his students.....I think that's why it works for him. Once he comes home....he does not have that control any more and has to resort to other methods to gain it back. I would imagine....intimidation in other forms as a teacher are also employed in his job as a teacher in the form of reward and punishment which is accepted practice in that arena. Not so much outside of this one realm however. Control "Freaks" gravitate to places and jobs of authority where they have free reign to do what they do. I agree.....he is testing the water and moving M into the position he wants her to be in and manipulating her by intimidation to get her right where he wants her. Whether this is completely conscious or not....the end result is the same for you being on the other side of it and it's abuse.....no two ways about it.
By walking into this voluntarily....you are signing up for a co-dependent relationship because this is where it will end up and where this is heading I think. Back to get ridding the fear that holds you there and keeps perpetuating it.
J
Well that escalated quickly..
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
Well that escalated quickly....
I hate to say it, but a good part of the problem is the fact that he is Japanese and we are living in Japan. The Japanese people DONT deal with mental health AT ALL. It is typically ignored - you never tell people you have ANY issues. That being said, as a child, his ADHD was not dealt with or held in check by his parents, but his behavior was allowed and his anger had free reign. This is a boy that was never taught how to control his emotions or deal with others, because Japanese people don't have rules for that for any child outside of normal circumstances. That in itself can seem to bring out "abusive" tendencies in him, but really it's just that his ADHD is so completely unchecked from birth that it's ingrained in him. (Nearly all of the adhd meds that are available in the USA are actually illegal here.) Oh and of course there is the Narcissism.
It really was simply a temper tantrum, not an episode of abuse. He couldn't possibly think that far ahead as to actually think that this was a method of controlling me. When he is tired and cranky, he acts like a 5yr old, and that is what I was saying in my original post. He hasn't learned how to act like a proper adult yet - and not a single soul has helped him along the way. His Japanese mother ran away from responsibility. His family still pretends his is perfectly normal. (Despite his younger sister once getting drunk and crying on my shoulder because her big brother used to beat her up) Hell, I'm older than him and he is attracted to older women because he CAN'T control any woman, he wants to be coddled like a child still. He WANTS me to baby him. And I'm not the mothering type, I often tell him to stand on his own two feet. But at the same time I took it upon myself to learn a little bit more about ADHD and have slowly been helping him with what simple things I can - such as turning on the lights in the morning to help him wake up (and avoid invoking his childlike anger), or steering him towards healthier food choices that agree with an ADHD diet.
I'm not afraid, there is no fear happening. Were we at home I would have dealt with the situation differently, but because we were in public I refused to drag in any innocent bystanders. I didn't have the time to be patient. My approach worked in itself because he walked home and shut down for the rest of the evening. He slept until 2PM the next day, but he's too embarrassed to admit he was in the wrong. (His method of apology was to buy pizza and leave some on the counter for me) Japanese men don't bow down to their wives - that is not the culture here. I'm lucky enough he recognizes that his wife isn't Japanese and doesn't hold me to the exact same customs.
So this is why I feel like running would be even more detrimental - I'm the first person he met that actually accepted the fact that he has an "issue" (again, taboo to talk about in Japan). Without me he would undoubtedly spiral down. He won't go for help on his own, I have to hold his hand the whole way. His mind is honestly still a child - and if I understand things correctly, adhders learn at a slow rate, so its not impossible that he still has a teenage-like mind.
It Sounds Like You Have The Situation Well In Hand...
Submitted by kellyj on
and from the sound it, the cultural norms are also working against you but to say.....those cultural norms are different than mental diagnosis in general....I hear what you are saying. I've actually been to Japan and have seen some of what you are talking about myself plus...one of my close friends is a pilot and Japan is on his regular schedule. He's told me of some of these things himself so I understand that things are done and seen differently over there and that's part of what you are experiencing.
Having said that.....your description of his family and how things are seen is just another form of denial looking at it in the big picture. That's probably more of the issue you are dealing with than say Narcissism as the main problem. Like you said....untreated undiagnosed ADHD and being in denial looks very much like Narcissism all by itself until you get a handle on it and can see it for yourself. This does sound more optimistic from what you are saying. As my therapist had said to me in the past when I was talking about this with him....it has the "flavor of Narcissism" but is not Narcissism in that the mechanism and the source of the problem is not the same....only some but not all of the symptoms seem the same which is what you see.
I also wanted to point out that folks with ADHD can be a little behind in maturity level but that is a relative thing meaning....behind but still evolving none the less....not arrested completely like Narcissism. When I was 29....I was a little behind myself but eventually....caught up with the help of some therapy. That's where it seems....you've got some obstacles in your way with the cultural denial going on and not talking about things of this nature.
Just so you know......this situation presented itself in my own family and the result were similar. No one talks about the elephant in the room and nothing happens to make anything change when that's the case. It's possible....that if this can change between the two of you....he will change as well but it will take some time and change will be slow I'm speculating? You might be able to wield the fact that he knows you're from a different cultural back ground to your advantage and get him to listen to you but.....I think you're still going to be doing a lot of hand holding along the way and this is probably something that you will need to accept.....or not?
J
Culture is against me alright!
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
It sounds like you definitely have had experiences in Japan so you do catch what I am going through. At some point in his childhood he did have a diagnosis, because he told me he was ADHD about a month into our relationship. At the time I didn't quite understand what it was - I just assumed it was the noisy kid in the classroom. I can't tell which one of his parents also has it, but I suspect both of his parents have issues as well. He announced he wanted to live a drug-free life, and I didn't want to argue with it at the time. I was honored that he had opened up to me about his personal issue, because that doesn't happen unless you are seriously considering a lifetime with the person.
I've suggested therapy multiple times, and he doesn't deny that he needs to go. Sometimes he makes excuses that its not fair that only he has to go - so I guess that is the denial speaking - and sometimes he says he will go when he finds the right doc, but then goes back to his superfocus on the computer and ignores me for the rest of the evening. Then gets upset with me when I bring it up again.
I'm trying not to pull my hair out - I'm actually a very patient person to begin with. But he honestly does push my buttons and I'm really wondering if he EVER will go to a doctor. I shouldn't have to be the one to book an appointment, right?
Meiohsetsung,
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Meiohsetsung,
You're his wife. You love him and are willing to help.
But you can't be his savior or, unfortunately, fill in all the parenting gaps and care for him and teach him as his parents, by natural relation with him, had the responsibility to do.
Please keep doing what you did in the store, remove yourself as the punching bag of his acting out, when he's lost it.
Thanks for telling us he was unmedicated, and was let run wild by his parents. It fills out the picture of why he would do such a tantrum in a store, which is a public place.
On the Japanese thing of not talking about mental or emotional problems, or showing them in public, yes there's still an honor culture there. One's identity is partly coming from how other people see and evaluate you. Men are supposed to be self controlled in public. You've mentioned that you hesitate to go out with him sometimes. So there have been more incidents out in public whatever they were.
He demonstrated in front of other Japanese people that he, a Japanese man, had lost control of himself. So he did himself a double whammy of embarrassing himself. Whether the proper label is tantrum or abuse, your husband recognizes that he did do something directly to you, or that silent pizza wouldn't have shown up, a food offering, silently wanting to give something to make up for something.
On top of that, he also undercut hmself publicly as a Japanese male, by doing what Japanese tell themselves is not good for men to do (I'm going on your account of Japanese culture now): show that he has some kind of mental or emotional weakness that would lead him to lose control of himself in public. So he has shamed himself, in that store, in a public honor culture that expects men not to do these things.
...do give him help, that doesn't abandon your own well being, but I hope you don't slide down the slippery slope of co dependently believing that you're the solution to all of his long accumulation of lacks and woes. So sorry to hear his parents abandoned him like that.
Yes, I still love him or I
Submitted by meiohsetsuna on
Yes, I still love him or I wouldn't have bothered hanging around and getting married in the first place. I most definitely am NOT his savior, and I would be kidding myself to think I am. I see myself as the only one trying to push him in the right direction, and I see a path of heartbreak and frustration ahead. I keep debating with myself everyday if I should just follow the yellow brick road, or tap my heels together and chant that there is no place like home. I imagine the spouse of anyone going through a mental disorder, emotional issues, or any such thing deemed "not normal" is going to have to take a lot of bad days with the good. I myself suffer from depressions, so I'm not a perfect spouse either.
Were we at home, I would have put him in "time out". That's the only thing I could have done. I've learned that when he is angry he will pick up the most random thing (such as "why are you looking at me!?!?") and run with it. His words hurt and he hardly ever remembers what he said. Today he finally apologized without even knowing (or remembering) what he had done. But was still defensive about the whole ordeal.
You definitely have the honor culture bit right- but the problem is that he himself DGAF. This is why he has no friends and was never able to hold a relationship longer than 2 months... I'm actually the one who is afraid of the embarrassment. I stick out like a sore thumb (since I am not Japanese), and even worse so when he is with me. I've had to apologize to store staff before for his outbursts... because that is the culture here. So I rather just NOT go with him to the store, it saves me from hassles.
It's also gotten slightly better once I got two cats to dote on... The outbursts are less...
But I'm still miles away from him actually going in to a therapist. SIGH.
fight picking
Submitted by ladylamb on
does this ever sound like my husband!! when my husband starts fights i walk away or do not respond. i catch him looking out of the corner of his eye to see if i'm paying attention-if im not paying attention-he stops.