Are you offended by being a Husband or Wife?
We are all different on this forum, but, in the same breathe I can say we all have many similarities.
What is your concept of marriage?
What or Who do you pattern you life after as a husband or wife?
Who for you is the authority on what a marriage is suppose to look like?
Does the meanings of any of these words offend you, as they pertain to you as an individual?...Work, Helper, Leader, Accountability, Responsibility, Sex, Submission, Openness, Repentance, Apologies, Forgiveness, Love, Cleanliness, Dirty, Messy, Hunger, Thirst....
Do you fight against or make excuses for things you know in your heart that you should seek to become or take on as a husband or wife?
From my own experience's in life, the things I hate, dislike or fight against, I never get good at.....Do you truly desire to be a Good Husband or Wife?
Honesty w/ one's self and a shared understanding of our belief system w/ our spouse is vital if communication is going to be possible. Without this understanding going into a discussion, I've found that arguments can and do quickly surface. And, they usually stay unresolved, because they are open ended...The reason there open ended is, more times than not we are making a case for two different realities....We have little to no concept or understanding of our mates perspective about the subject....
It's vital to find out if you or you spouse hates being a husband or wife....This maybe the simple answer to many of our problems....
Are you offended by the requirements of your wedding Vows?? Do you want to live Single, but, just use your spouse for selfish purposes?
I sure don't have all my own answers here; some of my realities are to painful to puke up....But, truth will set us free!
C
C. Yes, that is what I am
Submitted by jennalemone on
C. Yes, that is what I am after for me also. The truth will set you free. Trying to get at my truths here. What you are saying in the above is an element in my marriage. We "had" to get married. From the start, H acted like a single guy who "visited" me and our sons when it was convenient to him. Since he does not talk about anything other than jokes and sarcasm, I don't know what his feelings and thoughts were or are but there is always something secretive and hidden about who he is and what he feels. He is not entirely open with me and has not put effort or work into partnering or communicating. I do believe that being married is a burden to him. And now in later years, being married to him has been the most difficult and disappointing thing of my life. I wanted to MAKE our marriage work and work at it. He wanted to have fun and enjoyed the benefits that having me provided for him. I have been not much more to him than a shill (look how I am a responsible family man, not a loser) and a tool (she will pick up the pieces and I don't care if I drop them). And it seems he uses me to get revenge on his loss of freedom.
The realities were, for me too, too painful to puke up for most of the marriage. I wanted to have hope. I was willing to give all the things you list to the marriage and family. H has lived emotionally independently of the marriage. It is so clear now that he didn't want to be married. I am facing and admitting the truths I didn't want to accept.
Thanks for going to this painful place and writing this. My children have not seen a pattern/model of a loving marriage.
Concept of Marriage
Submitted by jennalemone on
What is your concept of marriage? 2 people in partnership working toward healthy, happy family filled with faith in God/Life and in each other. Working and communicating toward finding pride and contentment in the home. Marriage is enjoying the work and the company of family members who are aware and wanting to work along side for the well-being and safety of family.
What or Who do you pattern your life after as a husband or wife? I think I know what you are looking for here ... Jesus and the church and lots of words about a husband "putting away" his wife. I have read and read these passages and find no solution to an unbelieving husband who does not love his wife.....other than the wife, by her actions, bringing husband to faitih....Didn't work....or I didn't know how to do that. I think I might review that whole issue again to see what it says to me now. For me, right now, I don't have a model/pattern. I am winging it and not doing a very good job. I feel somewhat duped by some of the things my old church demanded of me as a woman and am a little leery of looking to the Bible for answers for a woman in marriage. Struggling with that.
Who for you is the authority on what a marriage is suppose to look like? C, do you care to give your answers to this? Again, I used my religion as the authority and it seems to have stripped me of any balance within the relationship between H and me with a bad outcome. I tried to be "the virtuous woman" and read that over and over again while in my loneliest times. I honored H when I was young. That honor was taken as "permission" by him to act selfishly and for him to have contempt for my "not fighting back". The Bible authority says I must never divorce. The Bible says that a man can divorce his wife only for adultary. I was the only one who was using the Bible as a guide for "how to be" in marriage.
Jenna....
Submitted by c ur self on
I will make an effort to answer the questions soon...(Bed Time)....I just love all that you 4 had to say. How much you care and desire a healthy loving marriage just came flowing out... You guys faithfulness under not so great of circumstances really inspires and encourages me!
Love you all...Nite!
C
These are some great
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
These are some great questions - here is my take on them:
What is your concept of marriage? Two people, who are committed to each other, who rely on each other, and support each other to create a happy, fulfilled life - helping each other reach their individual goals as well as joint goals. I see it as a partnership - each brining some similar and very different interests and skill sets to make a complete, whole picture. Two people who can manage the ups and downs with out chickening out on each other, and being secure in that the person you are committed to is NOT your enemy or competition. I believe that while its not "all the time" - that marriage means you strive to make your partner happy, just because. Not for any thing back, but because you love them. My favorite moments of my life with H are the times I was able to make him truly happy. His smile was worth all the effort and struggle I had to go through to make that happen.
What or Who do you pattern your life after as a husband or wife? I guess you can say my model is partially based in the dedication and respect I see in many relationships from books such as the Lord of the Rings - the relationship between Sam and Frodo. They could trust each other completely, and even when there was conflict, they had the courage to step out of their comfort zone to resolve it - for the sake of their bond and friendship. My other model would probably be my grandparents - who stuck together through thick and thin. They had their own issues, but they loved each other MORE than they feared the problems. They went through allot, and they stuck together through to the end. My grandfather told me that sometimes he might not like my grandmother, and sometimes she might not like him - but they knew - EVEN WHEN TIMES WERE HARD, and EVEN WHEN IT SEEMS HOPELESS that deep down they had love for each other.
Who for you is the authority on what a marriage is suppose to look like? I have no "authority" that I look to to define marriage I guess. I am not a religious person, though I do have a sort of spirituality. I think that to me - Truth and Honor and "REAL" love (not "in love feelings" and infatuation) are the authorities in all things for me. Is it TRUE? If not, find out the truth and accept it and always work to tell it. Is it HONORABLE? Then do it, but if it isn't - don't - dont break your promises and vows. Does it show true love to your spouse (and sometimes this isn't a sweet happy thing, but a hard - HONEST thing)? Then do it - if not - don't. To me, you have to have all three to have a successful marriage. So while there are no rules other than being truthful and having honor and using the litmus test of real love - no structure otherwise defined, I believe holding to those 3 principles by both parties can guarantee an overall happy, fulfilling, beautiful marriage.
Praticing those things show the utmost respect for your spouse. And event through times can be tough - love is tough. Love is not easy. Marriage is not easy. Its hard, its painful - but it can be the most rewarding experience of someone's life. To spend your life with someone, grow with them, evolve with them. That "in love feeling" is just the seed, its just the beginning. When you go through struggles in life, and you stand fast - and hold on to eachtother, the reward is indescribable. I saw it in my grandparents. I see it in many people around me. Its what i want for myself.
I understand completely Jenna
Submitted by c ur self on
The fear of vulnerability puts up those walls and the denial that produces his (life is a joke) persona is just fear, we may never get our answers.
Blessings to you my dear friend!
C
Yeah, I am not afraid or
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Yeah, I am not afraid or offended by any part of being in a marriage or being a wife. I think the words you used to describe a marriage role certainly apply to me. To H? Not so much. I absolutely want to be a good wife. I want to be that support and that person that my husband reaches out to. But I am not. And not because of any action or inaction on my part.
I am offended however by lies, lack of follow through, and "uncommittedness" after making promises. I am disappointed in the lack of concern or care from my H about the most basic things. Maybe I should not have had any expectations of him - but i dont think marriage is a matter of zero expectations. It is a joint effort, a promise to be stead fast in the commitment, a promise to be *there* and forsaking all others (ALL others, even stupid video games). I think I have a right to have some expectations from someone who demands nothing less than perfection from me. He will say it isnt true - but the moment I slack on my happy demenor, or the moment I am unhappy about something (like his lying to my face) - he tail spins into "I am broken, I dont nkow if I want to be married, I a not in love with you anymore". Well - ok then - dont get bent out of shape when I take you at your word.
I believe my husband is indeed offended by the requirements of his own wedding vows. I do not believe he feels like he should hold them up when he doesnt "feel" like it. He doesnt have a concept of what a "vow" is. He has made them to so many people, and they put their faith in him, and then they get burned. Like with his fighting, I dont believe that anyone takes him seriously anymore. One guy had given him one more chance for him to take him seriously (because *I* asked him to) - and he wasted it. He will have every excuse in the book.
Truth really will set us free. Finally accepting the truth about him has set me free in so many ways. Sure - its painful, and sure I wish it wasnt the case. But it *IS* what it is. And the only one who can change that is him - and I - like his fighting friends - no longer think he has what it takes to make that change. He is too weak on the inside, and refuses to do what it takes to get stronger. I do not believe he even has a desire to be a better self, nevermind be a better husband or better father.
I'm Not Afraid.....I'm Frightened
Submitted by kellyj on
To put it bluntly. But that's all about me. My wife does not offend me or make me doubt myself or why I'm with her...at all. I have long since let go of what "I think a marriage should be". Long ago. Long before I met my wife.
Nothing she does makes me question myself or my motives. What she does do at times....is shock the Hell out of me....as in an electric "shock". Shock and awe to be more specific....with no explanation to why this is????
But then she shuts down and won't account for her actions.....ie: the "Shock and Awe" and then the "stopping" or "shutting me down" behavior that comes with hostility.....anger.....and accusations that are thrown at me that none of are true? Like....WTF?
Why are you hostile?
Why are you angry?
Why did you just go from 0 to 100 in front of my eyes and are acting like someone who is being mugged at gun point and about to be gang raped by thugs in a dark alley or something?????
What the Hell? I know what I did....and know about my symptoms....I know what they are....I know why I do them.....I know pretty much anything there is to know about me and what I do and I don't make excuses or lie about it. Sure I feel some shame about these things....but that just goes with the territory. I'm the one with my own version of hyperactive-impulsiveness and I know exactly....why I do what and the reasons for it. I'm over any embarrassment to the point of just...over reacting emotionally and then coming up with the first thing in my head as a reason to explain myself?
I have ....Impulsive....Hyperactive (as in...outwardly expressing myself in overt actions manifested in the moment).....type ADHD. I know the score...and I'm keeping track of it. That's pretty much all I need to know about myself and I don't get.....defensive about it....in a general way....all the time......where ever I go. To the point....I don't do that with my wife either. So what the Hell?
My wifes behavior and this "Shock and Awe" over reaction is and has been....very very concerning to me.
She cannot tell me why?
She cannot explain her actions to me?
She gets WAY overly defensive if I even mention it?
Comes back to me....as if, in a form of being personally attacked with panic like fear? Overwhelming reactive fear of something....like I'm one of those gang rapists who's about to attack her?
Over what? My ADHD symptoms? That's what it looks like....in fact....I know it is. I know it...because I'm so aware of myself and my own behaviors that I can pretty much tell her (or know myself) exactly what I just did and connect it to someone else and why they react to me. And this doesn't hurt my feelings, make me feel ashamed of myself.....makes me defensive....and makes me feel like I have to lie about it....which I don't. Because of what I just said. I have no need to anything more....than to just respond to my wife as clearly and as openly as I possibly be the tell her exactly what I'm seeing myself doing in knowing all of this and exactly why?
So why then....the problem and this "Shock and Awe" tactics with me...and running away and shutting down and not being able to identify or tell me what the problem is....so I won;'t do what ever....again. For her benefit and mine as well ....so we can stop running into these problems in the future?
What so hard about that? (you might ask?)
But these "Shock and Awe" moments and her shutting down with hostility thrown at me....scares the living day lights out of me sometimes? I'm not afraid of her.....I'm afraid of these moments? They're scary and they frighten me.
Those are my honest feelings about my wife and the questions I have that she won't tell me or answer for me in any logical way that I can understand? What the Hell?
**I'll be making a post about what I Finally....discovered once my wife told me what this has been all about....in her own words....not mine this time. For the first time ever....my feelings have been verified and vindicated and connected to something real....in a logical way.
J
The things she reports back to me as to what....she sees me doing.....are wrong (in the moment...like I said....I am very aware of what I do....am always open to constructive criticism....don't take these things personally...and don't care if it's mentioned or brought up?)
That is.....until today....just as of this morning.
This is the sad story J of Non's and Adhd's....
Submitted by c ur self on
Your comfortable and open about the manifestation's....She is going to hell every time it happens....Here reactions are completely an over reaction in your mind, and she is justifying them....
Unless she can humble herself, and see herself, and apologize for her anger and overreaction then she will continue in denial and say it was warranted....And you must do the same in my view, when you know (or she tells you) that your impulsivity cause her discomfort or pain....
Just my view
C
You're Right About That ..C
Submitted by kellyj on
I've never really thought or beleived her when she says my ADHD symptoms are hurting her. I've tried with limited success...to connect....why that is but it doesn't get very far.
What is this denial all about anyway? I think my comment to you about Tattle Taling explains this and why she can't see her own behavior as bad since something else is over riding her mind in an attempt to still get what she feels she needs or deserves from me.....that of course she's not getting.
And not to forget my part. Since I do get distracted of focused in singular ways on things I'm doing or what I want or need to do.....the effect that has on her is going to make her feel like she's not getting enough attention.
But how many times have I said here on the forum in one way or another....it's not what she wants as the problem....and giving it to her is not the problem or my issue either in terms of me not wanting to...
It's how she's going about it or the method she using....that's the REAL source of our conflicts. That's the problem....not really my ADHD or that I get too focused on other things including what I NEED to do. Need as in....make a living...and live a life that I want too without excluding her entirely in it. I do a pretty good job of that anyway so that;s not the problem as I see it and really never put too much credence into that while keeping in mind my ADHD tendencies to get singularly focused myself.
Putting in another way......immediate self-gratification and goofing off or spending disproportionate amounts of time or money pursuing only things I want solely for my benefit is not a personal problem or issue I have. I've always had a pretty clear understanding of that so no matter what she says to the contrary....I'm not buying it and I really never have, to be honest. I made some changes to correct a few things and that did nothing to change her misbehavior.
J
J
Submitted by c ur self on
What is this denial all about anyway?
It's about the fruit of wearing a fleshly robe...Pride, Ego, Entitlement....It's c ur self's blind attempts to save his life, by his own efforts!....Because my fleshly mind is crying out you deserve better.
But then I realize I'm fighting against the very person that is there to give me Freedom!... Abundant life (the good life) only comes from one place but my flesh has to be taken down to experience it....
I Truly Believe.......C
Submitted by kellyj on
That the run down about why a Tattle Tale does what they do....is at the heart of this for everyone. We blind ourselves by what we want....so much....we can't see what's right in front our eyes sometimes.
We are all guilty here....no one is to blame but ourselves at the end of the day.
J
J
Submitted by c ur self on
We blind ourselves by what we want....
Amen!
C
The Allegory of Jesus.....C
Submitted by kellyj on
C...you brought to mind something that I shared with you (my thoughts on becoming a martyr ) when I first came to this forum and I still feel the same way.
The allegory of the story of Jesus....was not to teach us to serve at our own expense or to get something in return for following his example.
This is where I've said I believe the story has been misconstrued or has been misinterpreted by many who feel they've that this is what he was trying to show us by his actions. I think.....the point.....is missing here which made me think about this again.
The point I feel.....was not to copy his behavior and become a martyr and a victim. The point was to show us the way to deal with our own lives and other people.
As I see it..;.and as it was told and presented to me....that what was most important about the allegory of Jesus was him rising from the dead and becoming immortal or one with God. That's part of it....but it's missing the most important aspect of what he did....before that. Before that....he was showing that to sacrifice with no strings attached and with forgiveness.....is the way to deal with things ourselves.
If you are sacrificing yourself....at your own or others expense....then your goal is to get something in return. Wrong!!! You get in return....what you put in and earn. There is no entitlement or victim / martyr status involved. If that's the goal.....then you're missing the point. If you are using that to serve yourself and what you want...or for some pay off for your own selve serving needs.....then it's not clean. There's strings attached and those strings are what causes the damage to ourselves and other people.
What Jenna's new minister was saying to her about following the story but misconstruing that it should make you miserable or not enhance your life in some way....you're applying the allegory of Jesus in the wrong way. It's not about what happened after he died.....it's what he did before and leading up to the moment of his death.
I personally don't believe everything that the story tells about after he died because it cannot be scientifically proven and there are some holes in there that I just can't justify to cause me enough to just believe it as true without questioning it further.
But that doesn't mean I can't believe everything else he said and his actions and the way he went about it leading up to the moment of his death....and right there without knowing any more than that....is something I can sink my teeth into. I can't worry about what happens to me after I die.....who knows really? I can worry about what I do while I'm still alive though....and since I'm not dead yet....(and neither is the horse I rode in on ) I can apply the allegory in that way and put my focus on the things I have some control over myself and still enjoy the time I'm here without making myself miserable. I think that's reasonable without going to far over board? (worrying about what will happen to me after I die? I don't worry over things I have no control over so why would I start now? Anyone who tells you that you have to buy now or the offer will expire is as see it.....using pressure sales on me....coming from someone who's going to profit on me buying what ever they're selling ) What more can be done....while we're still here anyway.....why worry about things that aren't going to happen until you die??
I've got better ways to use the time I've got...than to try and prevent something that I'm not sure is even going to happen anyway? That makes no sense to me what so ever and is betraying what I truly believe.
And any time you are betraying what you believe in service of someone else....or sacrificing yourself to get something in return.....it's not clean...and there's strings attached. That's a bad deal any way you slice it as far as I'm concerned. How did we end up this way in the first place I might add?
My attitude remains the same here....."I'll let you know when that horse is dead"...and it isn't dead yet as far as I'm concerned...speaking for myself that is. For what it's worth.
J
J - as always, I appreciate
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
J - as always, I appreciate your self introspection, and I can see you truly trying to figure things out, but I do think sometimes you put quite a bit more focus on the faults of your wife, and too little aknowledgement of your ADHD impact. You say you never really thought or believed her that your ADHD symptoms/tendencies are hurting her - and I PROMISE you they are.
In fact, and please take this for what you will, as a friend pointing out to you that maybe you need to back off worrying about your wife, let her manage her own issues, and you just do the best you can to be loving and generous to her. I am not saying be a doormat - but you sound a LOT like my husband - in denial about the control he has over himself, and the denial that his behavior is an issue or a "big deal". He thinks the issues are mine, my need to control (I dont want it, never have), my sensitivity to things that he doesnt "mean" (rolling his eyes, annoyed with me when i ask him to follow through on something or if he is planning on doing something - what ever that something is), thinks I should react only to his words and not his actions - because he "said" something should dictate my reaction - not WHAT he did. I see you many times justifying your own thoughts and combative reactions to her - by reading into every little thing she does. My husband does this to me too - and it makes me really crazy. He assumes I mean something when I dont, and then acts on those assumptions - causing a negative, combative situation when there was NONE to be had. And then he blames me. And I am left in the dark wondering what the hell just happened.
J - you are a good person, but i think that you are too often times shifting the blame and finding fault in your wife, who I am sure has her own issues, but frmo what you have posted, almost all of it seems to be from you deriving and assuming things on her part (now - this is JUST my perspective based on a few posts, I am not there with you and nor do i have your wife's perspective). I know we are all here because we are in crisis, and most of our posts tend to be negative about spouses, I just want to be a friend and help you because if you could put all that amazing brain power and focus you have onto your self, I doubt there is anything in the world that could stop you from anything you wanted to do.
However, you can be your own worst enemy in building up conflict that isnt real with your wife, or assuming she means something and trying to deeply analyze her, when you already are wired differently and prone to false conclusions. Be careful there, you can hurt yourself and your marriage by doing that. And your wife is already telling you, you are hurting her with this.
Thanks Stacey
Submitted by kellyj on
I do appreciate the feedback and I will take note of it as you said it. This is a tough situation for me. I've tried to ignore those feelings that say I'm not doing anything to hurt you or and my wife is causing all of this on her own....but I do know, without even stopping long to think about it,....that I am having an effect on her even if she isn't expressing it well to me. Part of that tough situation...comes from her inability to say things to me...that come without her own judgments and personal criticizmst thrown in that just confound this for me? What you said about coming here and just putting my side to things as in seeing only her side coming at me and how that effects me is really just the part that I'm saying here but not saying of feeling about my wife...however, as I hear you and see and read myself....there is something to be said there as well. I hear what you are saying....and at the same time....possibly not doing it as much as you see here or even really think about this towards my wife when we're together.....
Until the dynamic starts up again. That's when I fall down and these things begin to emerge. I'm as guilty as anyone for failing to see this while it's happening...and letting the dynamic take me over instead of me being able to separate myself from it. I could say this differently by simply saying I'm becoming a victim to the pulls of the dynamic not my wife and that would be more accurate,. What comes out of me however when that happens...is exactly as you said and I do struggle there for sure.
Honestly....what I'm most frustrated over is her denial at times and sometimes....I just give into it. That where my blaming and criticizing really come into play. It's maddening sometimes and I do fall into that trap repeatedly because there really is not end to it and it keeps sneaking up behind me and biting me on the butt. LOL
I should know better right? lol It's taken me a while...but I'm beginning to become more at ease with this...at least knowing what I can expect.
I don't want to discount what you said to me at all since I do know it's true. What I also know is true is we are both doing it to each other and that part I have a pretty good understanding of. The frustration is that my wife is not seeing this and only thinks it's me. If I can honestly say anything or blame her for her part of what gets me frustrated and lose my patients....is simply that fact and nothing else and this is where I start to lose my objectivity and join her by doing the same thing.....even knowing better.
If you want to put into physical terms....the force I'm feeling is being "pushed away"....the feeling "pulled back" Everytime I get comfortable and let my guard down and start feeling close to her...she pushed me away and this hurts no doubt. So then I start to ignore her and heal from that hurt....and then she starts "pulling me back" in....showing me it might be safe again to risk being hurt again. After a while....I get comfortable and feel safe enough to get close to her again and let my guard down along with my feelings opening up...and wham....she pushes me away again...and my feelings are hurt one more time. After too many of those...you stop feeling close anymore and keep your feelings safe from being hurt again. Push...pull....push.....pull. Every time...each time around....my feelings get hurt.....I heal.....I take a chance....and then hurt again (bite me right on the ass)
But as I hear you say this....I know my part in this as well. Stepping back from my wife's maladaptive strategy to get my attention....she might not do that if she had enough to begin with? That part is all mine and I have to take that into consideration.
It's taken me this long to figure one part of this out that I have to accept with my wife however...any time she feels too close (even when I'm doing my part and putting in everything I should) she going to push me away any way....even under ideal conditions and I'm not feeding into it with my part only....to the best of my ability...some of that is just from having ADHD and my abilities are not going to be the same as others she's been with before who were without it.
It's taken me this to figure out at the very least on her behalf....that I'm going to get that no matter what I do or how hard I try...and I'm going to have to take those "pushes" with stride and not let that affect me or have my feelings hurt. Actually....there is no way not to have your feelings hurt being pushed away like she does...so I have to toughen up and not be so sensitive or not be with her at all. That's my choice but I think I can view it a little differently now. Knowing this is who I am with and accept it...for what it is....I don't have to be hurt by it....even if it's her who's doing the pushing and pulling.
Do I have to like it? NO!!!!! And that's the core of our boundary issues since setting boundaries is like pulling teeth sometimes. lol Painful....to say the least!!! lol
Thanks for the feedback too.....when you are getting pushed and pulled back and forth like this....it easy to lose where you are and also lose perspective. I might not like it....but I don't have to go back and forth with her right?
I do have control of that much.....I'm getting better at roller coaster operator all the time even though I didn't sign up to be one. What other choice do I have. ( aside from the obvious ) Knowing where up and down was on the control....is what I had to learn first to get a handle on it:)
FYI: Without thinking about this before....I think I just needed to find the handle to the control that's all (as roller coaster operator that is LOL )
Thanks again. I will take things in stride and not lose sight of the goal which I definitely do when I stop seeing both sides at the same time. It is what I do after all and I am aware of it even if I don;'t always see it lol
J
Here are some ideas that
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Here are some ideas that might help in your situation. I know for ME they would be very helpful. I am giving you some things here that I am doing myself, and that would help me immensely if my H had been doing for me.
Things *I* work hard to do as a NON ADHD partner:
Those things I am doing for my own personal benefit. They are VERY hard to do.
If my ADHD husband would have done the following - it would have been VERY VERY VERY helpful to me.
What it boils down to is - take care of your OWN stuff. You have clear issues being combative, and misplacing blame. Same as my husband. Dont worry about her issues - she has to deal with them herself. All you can do is become a better you, and being a better you - you will respond better to her, and that will in turn help HER change how she sees you and responds to you. If she is ANYTHING like me and some of the other spouses on this forum - I would bet you money that as much as she loves you, she is SICK TO DEATH of the chaos, the blame, the confusion and the neglect caused by ADHD. So she probably will be hypersensitive to things that you think should be no big deal. Well - let her be, and respond with gentleness and kindness and realize that you probably had a big part to play in that sensitivity developing. It might seem counter intuitive- but from the sounds of it - this is what she really needs. And I think its what you really need too. At least from my perspective.
When you can take care of your stuff, and your wife can take care of hers - you guys will be successfull. Right now - I am in the situation where my husband is not taking charge of his own, so all my focus is on myself. I worry about my tasks, my actions, my inactions, my issues, my future and I do not concern myself with his. It sucks, but it is what it is. If my husband could step up and really DEAL with things - we probably would have a chance. But I will not ask him to, will not demand him to - its his story to write. he makes his own choices.. I will not stop him or beg him to not leave. I will simply keep doing what I am doing which is building myself up, taking care of my own health, and making a good, fulfilled life with out him.
Applying the Story to the Actions
Submitted by kellyj on
I read your ideas and they are all good ones. I can see myself in both parts (both sides of the tracks you laid out). That was good for me to see. Since I haven't done this before in comparison....I think it's time to show my side in a critical way (for myself that is). In how I see this....it is how I see it now not so much back then so keep that in mind. In my own language...you'll see how I got here and what I contribute to the relationship with my wife.
Anxious-preoccupied. In as few a words as possible. Being smothered or suffocated by too much of what my mother wanted which was to be Super Mom from a sense of servitude and duty but without her own feelings involved. It couldn't have worked this way if she had no feelings or Love and her actions said Love since.....what she wanted most of all...is to be Super Mom. If it was something else....this wouldn't have worked out that way. What she taught (both actions and words) was that your feelings are not as important as mine or anyone else's. Your feelings....don't count...but they will when you get to be my age and then your feelings will count but....they are never more important than serving others feelings so even then....your feelings will never be more important than your duty to serve others and right now....my feelings are that you need to put your feelings aside for me since what is most important...is my job and duty in being Super Mom. That's what's most important to me.
My father on the other hand....had no feelings what so ever. Feelings are for little girls and sissies. What I was taught....was...."have no feelings what so ever" or else you're just a little baby since only little sissy girls and babies have feelings. Par for the course somewhat due to the times....but his actions said the same thing. There were no feelings there either including Love. Mutual respect was earned....only if......you have no feelings...and ....you do everything I want without question....or else. (or else was bad too....learned the hard way )
Well Okay then. This is how the world operates. Which means....if you have feelings at all...you better take them somewhere else since....on one hand....they're not as important to duty and serving others including my(moms) feelings........or........if you show any feelings what so ever.....your gonna pay. Hard!!!
But as I said....Love came through from my mom by her actions......nothing came through from my dad as in "0" through his actions including....punishment for having any feelings or showing them. At least with my mom....if I had feelings...they were acknowledged and if necessary....attended to but not unless there was a need that over rode her prime directive which was.....my feelings are not as important as others including yours based on need only. If the need arose...she was always there for me but there was some stiff competition since I was the last one in the brood and those that came before me had top billing and that never changes of course until those before you are no longer there anymore.
By that time (age 12 )...I was pretty disgusted by the whole damn thing and wanted nothing from either one of them since....I had found plenty of other places by that time where my feelings counted or I could express them openly and not have this hierarchy system where I was always last in line....which meant.....I was always anxious and nervous about either showing my feelings....or being able to find another source where they mattered equally the same as everyone else in the room which was never the case in my own home.
Better....not to be the sissy baby and become stoic and not show any at all. That was always a safe bet which was pretty well accepted by my male friends anyway. What I wasn't getting...was while this not showing or expressing feelings was the accepted practice for other boys....those other fathers who were teaching this norm were also showing the Love that was missing at my house on my fathers end so they were getting it from their fathers as I was the same when I was with my friends in the company of their own fathers too.
The problem with that is.....they weren't my fathers and as soon as I went home....the Love that was there....I had to leave behind. So the anxious search began...to find that somewhere...where that would stay for good and not have to leave it behind anymore or be second, third or fourth in line and got what was left over which sometimes....was an empty plate full of crumbs.
So taking that with me.....this became what I brought into my relationships which put an expectation on my partners that is completely unreasonable. There were demands placed on partners..... while not necessarily spoken directly....that they somehow fulfill this expectation I have automatically....without actually saying it to them which or course if I were to say that openly ( or realize what I was doing )....my partners would have told me to go jump in a lake. Which eventually....they did.
Why isn't this working....I'm serving your feelings and what you want first....and putting my feelings second to yours....plus, I'm not showing mine or expressing what I want out my duty to serve .....and I'm keeping them hidden like I'm suppose to do (since that would be a girly sissy man and I'm not that either? )
I'm doing everything right here and what I'm suppose to do....'What's wrong here? Why is this not working? Why aren't my partners just falling in line here and doing their part as they're suppose to do out that same duty in return? My partners failed and they failed me as well since I did everything right and copied exactly what I saw in the actions of my parents...and what I was taught by spoken word (and deed)
And you wonder why I failed in my past relationships along with the effect that my ADHD had on them without understanding this as I do now?
In the past....this just made me angry and resentful and left me with my feelings hurt and that's what I carried around with me all the time and obsessed over since where was I going to find what I needed since this was clearly not the right person and I needed to find someone else who would just fall in line like they're suppose to do? Of course....without me having to say anything or express those pesky feelings (which is not what I'm suppose to do??) except the part where I was angry and resentful which were pretty much all the time.
What's wrong with YOU!!!!!
As it was in my past.
J
I wanted to flesh out this
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I wanted to flesh out this statement a little more.
"Be honest with what he was actually doing and what he felt. This is a very hard one, and I understand that. But his constant answer of "I dont know" was not acceptable to me. "
Any time I ask my husband, why, or how, or what - the answer is always "I dont know". Why did you lie about that - you didnt have to, I dont care that you are smoking - I just dont want you to lie about it. "I dont know". What is it you are feeling right now about *this* - "I dont know". What do you love about me - "I dont know". What do you want for a goal this year - "I dont know". Why did you say you did a, b, c when you didnt - "I dont know". How does this movie make you feel about blah blah blah - "I dont know".
Even to the therapist - the answer was always "I dont know" - with the excuse of "I freeze when put on the spot". So both I and the Therapist would say ok - no problem, can you think for a while and tell me the answer to blah blahblah - "Sure"... later - "I dont know". Our therapist finally told him that he basically needed to shit or get off the pot. She point blank said she could not help him if he didnt start taking the steps she was asking of him. He didnt do the homework 99% of the time (I think he did ONE time - and not all the way - but it was a celebration!). he didnt read a single book - even though he requested them, and would only skim a page or two of any chapter I specifically asked him to read. he never searched online to get help- never looked things up etc. I think he might have looked up for counselers or support groups - like for 5 minutes, and never took it further.
Always - the answer is "I dont know". He is very disconnected from his own emotions and his own soul really. Makes me sad.
This also sets me up to fail every time. How can I respond to "I dont know" ? I will always get it wrong. He gives me nothing to work with. Your spouse cannot HOPE to give you what you need if all you ever tell them is I DON'T KNOW. We are not mind readers. I have had to tell him that so many times. He has had whole conversations with me in his head, but when I am really asking something its "I dont know"....
I know this is common - seems to be very prevalent here in everyone's stories. Stonewalling, disconnection. I know much of this is from my husbands CSA. Nothing I can do - or WILL do until the answer is something other than "I DONT KNOW".
However, I say that, so clearly I am still working on detatching.... its still very hard. I think of the "if only's" and thats my own personal downfall. I set myself on fire like a monk.
Just a Thought.. Stacey
Submitted by kellyj on
What I really haven't done here so much....is let the hammer down on myself and spell out my half as I thought about what you were saying. I really haven't balanced what I've said here as well as I do this in reality.
I'm pretty good at putting the hammer down on myself and I have no problem doing that either. I'll come and let the hammer down on part too...to help put this into perspective for you too.
Good call. I'll give that some thought and come back here and put my thoughts into it :)
J
Stacey, same here, wanted to
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Stacey, same here, wanted to be a good wife, with a God fearing husband, being equal partners in love and life. I wanted my husband to be "head of the house", which I know in today's world is a phrase that could get you the death penalty from many.
But, it doesn't mean the husband dominates the wife, and I think most of you here know what I mean with this. For almost 25 years of our marriage we didn't know he had ADHD. I didn't become the "typical nagging" non adhd wife I've read about so many times here on this forum, and become my husband's mother. But, THAT didnt make any difference in OUR interactions. Sometimes I wish I WOULD have become that, and maybe things would have turned out different. We STILL didnt communicate, things STILL went terribly wrong.
The main things for us, I think, is his denial of how the ADHD affects him and us, our miscommunication with each other, and his TOTAL unwillingness to TALK and be open about himself to me or ANYONE, including therapists.
I too, have a problem with never knowing exactly where I stood with him. The apathy, the defensiveness, and lies......especially lies of OMISSION. The secrecy he has about his life isn't compatible with a close intimate relationship. Every time I asked him about being intimate, he thought I meant sex, no matter HOW many times I tried to explain about being close to a person, and the differences in the word "intimacies".
There are SO many issues I KNOW he needs to work through as far as his mother and family goes, which he wont even BEGIN to touch. "Thats in the past, it doesnt matter now", he always says. But, the past keeps repeating itself, so the PAST isnt OVER yet. And any further relationship he has, will STILL have all these same problems no matter WHAT woman he is with. THATS what he needs to know, but it will once again repeat since he wont look at it. FEAR, and all the irrational fears his mother ingrained in his mind are STILL THERE. Its kept him from having ANY kind of close, loving, give and take, mature relationship with a woman.
Humor and joking is fun and is important in having fun, but there are many more avenues to relationship building, and he just wouldn't go there no matter what. It was like shortly after we were married, something in the back of my brain kept saying," There's something wrong here, but I just can't put my finger in it". Like a nagging feeling deep in the pit of your stomach that just KNOWS something isn't right, but you keep trying to rationalize it away. It never went away. I tore myself apart trying to make sense out of so many non sensical things, and it made me crazy.
Stacey, I don't think my husband has what it takes either, to turn things around for himself. It's easier to blame, ignore and just "move on" with his life rather than look inside himself and admit that there were major issues in his family that hurt him, his siblings and the people they all married, as well as all their children.
I don't want a divorce and THIS....but I can't go on with the denial of the ADHD effect on our lives. I want good for him, and hope he does well.
There are days I feel bad because it feels like I gave up. But, I did. I can't fight irrationality ANY MORE. And, my IQ, has nothing to do with it. (which is also something he believes he is superior with). Crazy making.
There isnt anything wrong
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
There isnt anything wrong with a "traditional" role based marriage! If both partners are loving and happy - its amazing! I have a friend who is a stay at home wife, and she is COMPLETELY submissive to him - not in a groveling way, but she really treats him as head of the household. And he cherishes her and they are among some of the most happy people I know. Their relationship is a stark contrast - yet has run in parellel to mine and my Hs. I think if it suits both parties - it can be a wonderful beautiful thing (as can be non traditional marriages).
Sadly for both you and I - we were not dealt a good hand. Both of us have had to deal with our share of excuses, apathy and flat out refusal and for sure in my case - all with a smile and demanding I do *my* part - or he would leave.
I hate what happened to you - and I am so glad you are finding your way out. I know for both of us- a long hard road is ahead of us, but the GOOD thing about this - and the best thing we have going for ourselves.. IS ourselves. Dede - you are one smart lady, and you are brave and strong enough to call a spade a spade and NOT take it anymore. I feel better just knowing you are out there, showing me that you can make it through the pain and heartbreak.
I know that one day - when you are finally out of the mudpit your husband created to trap you - you will be at peace, happy and who knows - maybe you will be with someone who can be your match. But one thing I know for sure- YOU will make it, regardless. You are finding your own strength and pushing through this crap, this forest of excuses, of betrayals, of your husband's "poor little me I have had struggles" BS. TO HELL WITH HIM and to HELL with anyone who wants to give you grief.
One day - if you are up for it - you can have the marriage you want, NOW you have a chance at it. NOW that can really happen. I am sorry for the hurt and pain you will go through because of your H. I truly am. I am right there with you. But just hold on to that thought of now you have a real future. It might not feel it at the moment, but one day very soon you will breath in and your world is going to suddenly burst with possibility. YOU my friend have slayed the dragon, and while you are tired, and beat down because of the fight - YOU are the one who wins. Because you get the greatest prize of all - a whole you. <3
Yes
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Great Post vabeachgal
Submitted by c ur self on
No sense in being up set about reality....Lack of intimacy created when we lack the ability or are just unwilling to be emotionally open. I think It spawns from our fears from the past, and from the lack of proper examples and teaching...So you end up w/ completely different views on life, and different priorities.....
You said it so well, marriage for some isn't about being connected in real ways....
Hope you have a blessed day!
C
My effort to answer my own questions....
Submitted by c ur self on
Am I offended by being a husband?....No, I'm not offended by being a husband...I think it's the greatest gift in the finite world...It teaches us about true life.....
My concept about marriage? Can be found in Genesis....Leave Father and Mother, cleave unto my Wife and us two become one flesh.....
Do I have a pattern to go by as a husband...Yes, the gospel, Love my wife, as I love my self, live with her in an understanding manner....And many many more calls on my life to be accountable to has a husband and all that in tells....
The Authority on marriage for me is someone whom never married a women....The Christ...I believe any relationship built on anything other than him, will always be doomed from the start...
In the past I've been offended by some of the words I listed, but, I'm working on facing it, and practicing it, in order to overcome it......They are or have been...Submission, Apologies, Dirty, Messy, Hunger, and Thirst....
My comment about sharing realities is something that I feel strongly about....When words aren't able to be heard, due to defensiveness and unconcern it makes this very tough. So I'm learning that patients is a greater gift than knowledge when it comes to my spouse...
My wife makes statements that lets me know she was much more comfortable without the obligations of being a wife...So I do think she is offended (based on her living of life) by the call on her life to be a wife...
I am not offended by my wedding Vows....Except that last line where the minister had us say we would give 100% regardless of what our spouse was giving. (That takes a power beyond human form, this human anyway!).....I do not want to be Single...I do not trust myself that much, And I also love the beauty of what God created when he took Eve from Adam and presented the perfect help meat back to him...Two being One is the greatest mystery in the finite world in my humble opinion....Do I want to use my wife for selfish reasons?....No....All I want is what the Father wants for us....And his word makes that perfectly clear for those who hunger and thirst for truth....
I'm sure I was easy on myself here, but, then self love and self awareness is a human's largest obstacle.....
C
Confession from my heart......
Submitted by Zapp10 on
There is "something"I know about truth, sincerity, kindness, gentleness, contentment, warmth, diligence....the list goes on. I am not ALL of these ALL the time. I do not strive for excellence....I lean toward giving the BEST of me I have within me.
I am "grieving" I will never hear the 3 little words said by my spouse....FROM his heart to MINE. I am grieving that he does not "see" me. Whether he doesn't/ can't understand...in my heart.....I will not "hear"....that I was loved....that he is so glad I chose him. That he loves just "being" with me. Through our years....when I have expressed these very sentiments to him....he was "awkward" in his reception and would jokingly deflect. I stopped ...I felt stupid. I am not a sappy woman. I did for my H because I loved.
I am not going to question myself anymore on....do I really know what it is to love a spouse?.......Yes..I do. .........Do I know what it is to be loved by a spouse?..........No, I don't.
What I know?........this is not a marriage.......AND....this is not a pity party for me.....this is me, in this moment, facing truth.......and I know what happens when that is done........
My H loves me in a way that suits him.....it has nothing to do with me.