I cannot tell you how often I have had a non-ADHD partner contact me and say something such as “I have a partner with ADHD who is also a narcissist.” Sometimes, a therapist (who usually doesn’t know much about ADHD, once I probe) has suggested this, as well. Though your partner seems self-absorbed, it is likely not narcissism, and with the right approach it usually CAN be addressed within your relationship.
Why It’s Probably Not Narcissism
An article in the June, 2016 issue of The Atlantic gave one of the best descriptions of narcissism I’ve seen: “Highly narcissistic people are always trying to draw attention to themselves. Repeated and inordinate self-reference is a distinguishing feature of their personality…people with strong narcissistic needs want to love themselves, and they desperately want others to love them too – or at least admire them, see them as brilliant and powerful and beautiful, even just see them, period. The fundamental life goal is to promote the greatness of self, for all to see.” And, yes, the article was about Donald Trump…with good reason. He is a textbook narcissist.
While some people with ADHD may also be narcissists, for the most part this description does not fit. In fact, many with ADHD have low self-esteem and do not grandstand for attention. They may be defensive, forget to do things they promise, talk about themselves or (and this is particularly common) be living somewhere inside their head…but they are not usually classically narcissistic.
What Is It, Then? My Partner Seems to Pay Attention Mostly to Himself
It is fair to say that many with ADHD are “self-oriented.” By this, I don’t mean selfish – though it might come across this way when combined with a struggling relationship and poor management of ADHD symptoms. What I mean is that they are often somewhere inside their heads…often quite contentedly. They can be completely engaged in something such as work on a computer, thinking through an exciting problem, or with doing a flurry of seemingly unrelated things. Or they might be distracted by the many thoughts running through their head. Or spending a lot of time trying to get their brain to do what they want it to do (such as be more organized, etc.) None of these have much to do with their partner.
Sometimes this internal focus is a good thing. When my daughter was younger, for example, she could play very contentedly for hours and hours by herself – absorbed in a world she created with toys and in her head. My non-ADHD son, on the other hand, doesn’t have such skill at being contentedly on his own.
There is a lot going on in the head of a person who has ADHD. Even if you have the distractible version of ADHD, that brain is very, very fast – with thoughts darting here and there, often with little order or hierarchy. One past seminar participant described it as a “popcorn brain.” A friend once called it “the Library of Congress with no card catalogue.” Both make the point – in order to use that type of brain it takes a lot of energy and effort. That energy is directed inward – to where the energetic thoughts are happening and need to be corralled.
Living Well with ADHD
Couples who live successfully with ADHD learn that this self-orientation is okay – it’s part of taming an ADHD brain. But that time spent inside oneself does need to be offset by enough of what I call “attend time” if the other partner is to feel well-loved. Attend time is the time the two of you schedule to spend together that specifically communicates your love to each other. That might be a date for two, a morning walk and talk, bike riding together and chatting, sex, talking about your dreams, nurturing a garden together…there are many ways to be together where you end up feeling closer.
Even if your partner is inwardly focused much of the time (as is my husband), if you have enough meaningful time scheduled to pay attention to each other and communicate your appreciation and love for each other, you will still probably have a loving, fulfilling relationship.
But if the ADHD partner does not have the ADHD symptoms well managed, is often ‘escaping’ from the demands of the non-ADHD partner or resistant/defiant, and the non-ADHD partner feels lonely and abandoned, then you have the combination that starts getting the non-ADHD partner resentfully describing the ADHD partner as ‘narcissistic.’ Unmanaged ADHD symptoms, plus ADHD self-orientation, is a bad combination.
What to Do
As with many things about ADHD, it’s helpful to understand what’s going on. Depersonalizing the ‘self-orientation’ of an ADHD partner often provides a path for the other partner to be more empathetic. That empathy, in turn, can lead to working together to vastly improve your situation.
The bottom line is this – this is an explanation, but not an excuse. For a relationship to be successful, both partners must understand they are loved…having a brain that is noisy and fast doesn’t give the ADHD partner permission to be so self-oriented that he or she ignores their partner. Rather, it means ADHD adults and their partners must be particularly vigilant about creating attend time. Here are some simple approaches that can make a big difference:
- As a couple, create a way to let the ADHD partner know you are feeling ‘left out’ or that you would like more attention that doesn’t feel like a criticism. "I'm feeling a bit lonely" is better than "you're not paying enough attention to me"
- Schedule blocks of ‘attend time’ – DON’T leave this to chance or wait for it to just happen – it won’t. Make sure you have at least one block of several hours at least once a week
- Improve your self-intimacy skills. It’s particularly helpful when ADHD partners learn to better express what is going on in their head, helping their partners feel less left out (for more on this, see my course on Recovering Intimacy)
- Make sure ADHD treatment is optimized – see my online treatment guide for information on this
Remember, being self-oriented in order to tame the ADHD brain is not the same thing as being narcissistic. Once you understand the difference, the two of you can change the hurtful dynamic you've had in the past and reinforce your love for each other. If your relationship has other significant problems that interfere with feeling loved (and it may!) please don't despair! Consider taking my live couple's course that I give by phone three times a year. In it you will get to ask me all of your questions about your own relationship, learn a TON of information about how to effectively improve your relationship, find out the latest on treating ADHD, and more. It's a great resource that has helped many, many couples.
Click here for more about the symptoms and incidence of narcissism and ADHD.
ADDENDUM
Ned Hallowell and I teamed together to give a talk about ADHD an relationships in Seattle in March of 2018. At that talk he said "A simple definition of narcissism is this - a narcissist is a person who is incapable of love."
- MelissaOrlov's blog
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Comments
Thank you
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
I have been wondering this my self. In fact, I came to narcissism conclusion before I came to the ADD conclusion. Thank you for differentiating. I agree, my husband is not narcissistic, self oriented is an EXCELLENT way to describe him. He occupies a lot of space physically, mentally, emotionally, conversationally, etc. Before I figured out he had ADD, it used to drive me crazy when he would call me, talk 5 minutes about himself and then hang up before even asking my where I was, what I was doing and how my day was. I am getting better at getting him to listen to me about my day, not by getting angry but just catching him before he hangs up. He does care about me, he just forgets. I can't tell you how thankful I am I have found this website. It has been very helpful.
Getting him to ask about you
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Thanks for this comment - I find that my husband also is not that great at saying "how are your?" or "what are you doing right now that interests you?" or "what was your day like?" In fact, he almost never asks these questions. On the other hand, now that I have stopped feeling that he 'must' ask these questions, and stopped resenting that he didn't show his interest in me in that way, I've discovered that he is quite happy to talk with me about my interests - I just have to bring them up. As you say, his lack of asking is not the same thing as a lack of interest. As I think about it - he doesn't ask ANYONE about themselves - just sort of not his thing. Yet he's quite engaged with a lot of things.
And, there are a whole lot of other ways that he shows his interest in me, that aren't about asking me questions. He just finished planning a fabulous vacation for the two of us - and put in a huge amount of effort to bring it off...texts me that he misses me when he is out of town, etc.
It is really helpful to be able to make this distinction between narcissistic or self-centered (in the negative way) and self-oriented as a way of dealing with ADHD.
Lucky You!
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
I don't know if my husband misses me when he is out of town. He is off in hyper focus ADD land and he has no idea that I exist. Sometime he doesn't miss me when I am out of town, even if it is hard for him to come home to an empty house, where he has to face his demons in the stillness. He does love me when we are present with each other. And those moments are beautiful. The thought of them fills me with joy. And in the last five months I have been learning not to look for them when they don't exist, but to cherish them while they are there.
Another thing I noticed on this website (besides the fact that I have found a lot of people who are going through the same thing I am) is the use of the word "cherish". I don't think that word had ever been in my vocabulary before three years ago. I would never had "being cherished" as a goal. I have seen other ladies use it on this site. I know abandonment is a huge theme for non ADD spouses. I wonder if "cherished" is an ADD flag. We should do an exploratory study! (I am laughing).
Feeling Cherished
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I felt cherished in my relationship while we were dating (way back when) and recently. But in between, no. I think cherished is a word that is used here as a goal because it really does say 'focused, loving attention.' If you get to that place with your ADHD partner, chances are good that you have got a system in place that allows for enough 'attend time' combined with an ability to empathize with the ADHD partner's tendency towards 'inward focus.'
Finding Answers
Submitted by Neckbone on
Narcissistic husband
Submitted by Ifeelstupid on
This was helpful for me, as it describes and identifies personality characteristics I see in my husband and probably haven't been very objective about. There's a whole big iceberg beneath the surface behavior...So I'm glad to have vocabulary to describe what I experience. I nonetheless think he's narcissistic, but not emotionally bankrupt. Sigh.
Making a judgment call on being a narcissist
Submitted by Jiff on
Hello!
I am new to blogging and this site seeking support with an ADD husband who is not identifying with his ADD. He was diagnosed about 4-5 years ago, although in looking back, he’s had this a lifetime. It’s been difficult. I am new to this site and have identified with many of the posts. Running across the following post (attached) absolutely amazed and appalled me today. It was from September 2016. I find great distaste to accusing Donald Trump or ANYONE as a narcissist. This is a judgment call that should not be put in a blog as such. Whether you like Donald Trump or not, politic views and perceptions need to stay out of supporting the ADD/ADHD world. I struggle now with reading onward.
This is an excerpt from the 2016 post………..
Donald Trump is a Narcissist. Your Partner with ADHD Probably is Not
Why It’s Probably Not Narcissism
An article in the June, 2016 issue of The Atlantic gave one of the best descriptions of narcissism I’ve seen: “Highly narcissistic people are always trying to draw attention to themselves……………
……… And, yes, the article was about Donald Trump…with good reason. He is a textbook narcissist."
Hi Jiff...
Submitted by c ur self on
You will find many opinion's unrelated to add/adhd here...But, for the most part it is a way for people to open up about their own lives, to an audience that understands....(who lives it...)...But because it's an open forum you can't stop people from making accusations and judgments.... If you can ignore the unrelated banter, you can find some pearls of great price here....
c
Narcissism
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Hi, Jiff -
I am not saying whether or not you should support Donald Trump. Only that there is a definition of narcissism and he fits the definition. That's fact, not opinion.
I wrote the blog post because I specialize in ADHD and too many partners and others accuse those with ADHD of being narcissistic when, in reality, they don't actually fit the definition. As a high-profile narcissist, Trump provides a good example for comparison. That's it.
To provide all of the background you may wish, I don't love Trump and his policies. But this is a blog and forum dedicated to helping those impacted by ADHD - either because they have it themselves or because they love someone who has it. My expertise is both broad and deep and my politics (and YOUR politics) have nothing to do with what is written here. I hope you will continue to stay and learn as it will likely benefit you and your partner. But, of course, it is totally your choice whether or not to engage here.
Narcissim
Submitted by Lisa007 on
Like Jiff, I'm new to this site and am bothered to see Donald Trump so emphatically described as a narcissist. An addendum to this article describes a narcissist as someone who is incapable of loving others. Donald Trump loves his wife, children and this country. The factual evidence is irrefutable. His policies are working well too. Just a month ago peace between North and South Korea was unimaginable.
In today's political climate and in the preelection period in which this article was written, it's not plausible to think that a political undertone did not exist. And indeed you do confirm that you don't love President Trump and his policies. So, if "our" politics aren't relevant here, please remove the unsupported accusation made against "our" president.
Not Just a Judgement Call
Submitted by phatmama on
I am so glad you have been enjoying the forum and I hope you don't leave because you don't like one thing that was posted. I would like to draw a distinction between "accusing" and "diagnosing". If Billy Bob the welder with a high school diploma and no knowledge whatsoever of mental health diagnostic criterion calls Donald Trump a narcissist, that might be considered an "accusation" in loose terms. When a seasoned clinician with years of mental health experience describes someone a narcissist, this is more like a diagnostic observation than a mere accusation. Like, if my mom who can't balance her checkbook, tells me that my financial status is in crisis and I need to fix it asap, that doesn't carry much weight. However, if my accountant with two decades of experience told me the same thing, I would sit up and take notice, believe me. I am also a licensed therapist, and I can tell you that she is spot-on. Melissa knows her stuff and she is not just trying to stir the pot. Besides, the post wasn't really about Donald Trump anyway, but about ADHD and how it can look like, but ISN'T narcissism, which is information that can be marriage-saving and absolutely should be shared on this forum. Please stay with us for more of the good stuff this forum has to offer!
Jiff...
Submitted by c ur self on
Just to clarify; my original comment had nothing to do w/ the lead article on adhd by Melissa....(As a matter of fact I didn't even scroll up there) She is excellent at reading the posters comments concerning behavior patterns and giving professional feed back, she is very experienced, and is very successful....(Helps a lot of people).
My post was just setting an expectation for you, of what you might experience on this open forum...You get what you get w/ people.....But you will get much more truth and the knowledge of real life sharing here than any place I've experienced when it comes to the effects of add/adhd on a mind....
c
Amen, Melissa
Submitted by phatmama on
Melissa, your post was spot-on. Thank you for clarifying. You are very eloquent in describing the internalized state that most ADD'ers exist in much of the time. Attending to others requires first noticing them, am I right? I can tell you right now that my DH wouldn't notice if I disappeared for a week if he were in the garage with something to work on and his toolbelt around his waist. Even if I desperately needed something, he would be highly unlikely to break the "trance" of hyperfocus to do so. Is he a narcissist, a jerk, a spoiled child? No! He is a human being with executive function disability who does not notice what others notice, attend as others attend, perceive time as others perceive time, or require human interaction as others require human interaction. I have found that in the last three weeks, as I have decided to change my approach, from shrieking, scolding, chastising, accusing, and expecting him to mind-read, that things are going really well. He is happy to hang out with me and is actually excited to meet my needs IF HE KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME WHAT THEY ARE. When I try to come at him in the middle of his stuff and demand that he stop and do what I want (especially when I had failed to be clear in advance that his involvement was going to be required), it is going to end very, very badly (see my post "wrecked" for the example of the perfect storm of his ADHD and my desire to get him home on my schedule come Hell or high water). In the last three weeks, we have had date nights that he has loved and even asked for more. We have been polite and respectful most of the time (we won't talk about the meltdown when I wanted to take a spontaneous trip out of town which triggered his transitional issues). My marriage is not perfect and my partner is not perfect, but I think that realizing this is a disability and not a character flaw is a HUGE step toward building a loving partnership. I am not saying there are not narcissist spouses with ADHD, but ADHD itself is a whole other animal, even though the self-absorption may make it seem that way. I have also lived the truth that if you continue treating your ADHD spouse as though he has it out for you, is wrecking your life on purpose, is a total loser, and is someone you talk AT instead of WITH then you will both be miserable. I have never seen anyone go into retreat mode faster than an ADD'er who feels disrespected and degraded. And once they are in retreat mode (or "off the leash", as my DH and I call it), all bets are off. There is a strategy for dealing with communication effectively and Melissa has a great handle on how to do that if reconciliation and deepening commitment and love are what you actually want.
Amen phatmama
Submitted by jennalemone on
There, this is how a grownup functions and processes. This makes very much sense to me when childish emotions are conquered. Thank you phatmama, I needed to hear this today.
New to site
Submitted by Gordon W Smith III on
New to the site. Wife w severe adhd, 2 small children, marriage & family in shambles.
I must say that I came to this site desperate for help and hope. I am profoundly disappointed to find politics and disparaging remarks about the current president. I am left to honestly wonder about the professionalism and serious nature of your content. If you don't understand that, then I have definitely and unfortunately for my family come to the wrong place. I mean, seriously, if you don't already get that my world is so torn apart that petty political bs is off my radar at the moment, than you actually don't understand what you claim to. Trump, Obama, Hillary or Bozo...I couldn't care less at this point. Sheesh!!! And shame!!
He wasn't the President when
Submitted by SweetandSour on
He wasn't the President when she wrote this. And I've read hundreds and hundreds of posts on here. This is the ONLY one that refers to politics and it doesn't even, really - it refers to Donald Trump the reality show star. People are generally very kind and supportive of one another on this forum. Don't try to stir up trouble.