I finally had my ADHD diagnosed about two years ago. I come from an ADHD family, but was never diagnosed. Like many on here, I always suspected I had it. Since then, I've tried different medications, individual counseling, and my wife and I have done couples counseling. The counseling helps, and I have felt at times, as a result, more clarity than ever before. While communication has improved, it remains to be our biggest issue. Everything seems to be connected to communication.
Lately, my biggest issue has been defensiveness. My wife is very direct, and would very much like to point out something when it initially bothers her, and then move on (after a few somber moments). My wife is a traveling business consultant. I see her only Thursday night through Monday morning each week. In many ways, its a good setup, because we both have very busy work schedules and work long hours. Our weekends are dedicated to time with each other. However, its felt recently like she's constantly pointing out things that she wishes I wouldn't have done, or done differently. My reaction is almost always a defense. This infuriates her and the battle ensues. Eventually, when I calm down after feeling attacked, I often have to ask her to describe how the situation went down or what was specifically said. Not until then do I realize my initial defensiveness.
How do I shed this feeling of being attacked?
Is it okay to ask her to simply not point out things that upset her so often? With her, it seems like every emotion is extreme. And, she's so intimately connected to how she feels, I don't think I can keep up. I rarely even acknowledge how I feel, unless I'm upset. And its just that... bland... just "upset."
In the end, I really do want to be less defensive. We've both agreed to work hard to pause more often before saying something. For her, that means pausing before pointing something out. For me, that's giving myself a moment to process her comment before making a potentially defensive remark.
Is there something else we should consider here? We both want our communication to be better. The constant arguing has to stop. And I need to stop feeling that its her that chooses to fight all the time simply because its her that gets upset about something I've done.
One last thing, my wife understands that I have ADHD, and I think she's come to terms with some of my challenges. But, she hasn't done any research or reading on the topic herself. Is there something I should suggest she read? If so, how should I go about asking her to read it?
I'd love to hear your feedback.
Carl, I've noticed that my
Submitted by tazangel36 on
Carl, I've noticed that my husband responds initially with aggressive defensiveness, then when he's calmed down we can have a rational discussion. Maybe I'm doing what your wife does, constantly pointing out faults I see in him; I hope I'm not, I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that.
I would honestly suggest that you steer your wife here, if for no other reason than to begin to understand that she's not alone, that many couples struggle with these issues, and that there are ways to overcome. While I don't like reading, or responding to, the many posts that are purely negative, I have gotten some great ideas from Melissa and other posters that I have implemented in our home with great success. And I've come to have much more insight into how my husband sees the world; I've started to see what behaviors are a result of the ADHD and which are his personality; there's so much from this website that has given me hope, strength, and compassion for my husband. I've started to see just how hard things have always been for him, things that I take for granted. It's also helped me to better understand my son, who we highly suspect has ADHD.
As for your defensiveness, I'm wondering if that's a product of being on the receiving end of negative criticism for most of your life, like most sufferers of ADHD? That it's a knee-jerk reaction now? Maybe you could ask your wife to try one of the following, which I've found works for us: #1 - phrase the "criticism" in the form of a non-confrontational question, or non-personal, or observation, and #2 - ask her to allow you a few moments of reflection before you answer, you close your eyes and take a DEEP breath while you think over her question, and that might allow you to answer calmly instead of defensively.
Hope any of that works, it has for us.
Carl
Submitted by ebb and flow on
I don't think you'll ever shed the feeling of being attacked because we all feel that way, to different degrees, when someone comes to us with something we've done wrong.
I think the key to not 'reacting' is to learn the pause... This takes training and as a non-ADD partner I am still working on this one myself.
The next step, I would suggest, is trusting that your partner loves you and is only pointing this out because she's trying to find a solution, not because she thinks you are inherently bad. And even if she does feel, in that moment, that you are "bad" it's only because she's angry/upset and it will pass.
Trusting that a person can feel mad/sad about a specific thing you've done or haven't done, but still love you all the same is an important piece to this. I think the defensiveness comes because you believe somewhere that if someone is mad/sad with you it means they don't love you and they are attacking your entire being, not just a small behavior.
I guess what I'm trying to say is you'll always feel that defensiveness arise but how you react outwardly depends upon where you honestly think the person "accusing you" is REALLY coming from. If you trust they are coming from a place of love you can let your defenses come down because they're really not thinking you're inherently bad... they're just trying to solve the issue of the moment.
responding to non-ADHD complaints
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I need to respectfully disagree with you here. While it is a great idea to "learn the pause" (as you put it - great phrase!) it is also the responsibility of the non-ADHD partner to get enough perspective on their mutual goals to learn to not critique everything. If your goal is to "be perfect" then it is conceivable (though I think unlikely) that providing a running critique of all the problems and issues that arise as they arise might help (though I doubt it...mostly I think it would make someone defensive as it does here.) If your goal is to be a happy couple then a far better approach (in my opinion) is to make sure that each partner takes responsibility for their own issues, measures the success of the approaches they take, and moves on a constant path of improvement.
Often what this means is that criticism around "how" someone does something needs to disappear completely (the point is to get it done, no matter how it's done) and that criticism around "when" something is done can be diminished if both people sit down together to plan out what will happen and when. Personal attack types of criticism should never happen, and the "reaching into the sphere of the ADHD spouse" to take responsibility for his/her actions is very undesirable, too. While it may be uncomfortable to give responsibility for handling ADHd to a spouse who hasn't yet mastered doing so, it is the only place where that responsibility lies. (The responsibility of the non-ADHD partner is to figure out how to respond to the ADHD partner's actions and take control of their own actions.)
When I say something like that I get back "but then how do I get my needs met?" from a non-ADHD partner which is a legitimate question. The answer is "together," not singly. The bigger picture is that criticism doesn't work as well as encouragement and defensiveness doesn't work as well as openness and separating symptoms from the person. Creating solutions together is always better than dictating them.
I do agree with you completely that it's important to assume that your partner loves you, but that is often very difficult to do when things have been bad for a while because what you are experiencing in a lot of hurt and pain, which doesn't feel like love. Perhaps it's easier to assume that you both want to do better...then figure out the ways that each of you will do so and measure progress.
confused, please clarify
Submitted by hockeymom11 on
"criticism around "when" something is done can be diminished if both people sit down together to plan out what will happen and when."
Melissa, I totally agree with this and this is why I tried to come up with an in-home "contract" (maybe not the best title). Maybe it was too lengthy etc, but my main goal was to have my ADD spouse have some clarity as to WHEN I would like him to do something and WHAT DAY it would be done. I had one sentence in there about a daily chore, a weekly chore and a monthly chore of his choice and a night when he would spend time with the kids. There were obviously other items (money, time away from home, video game time etc that may have been too much too soon), but I got SO MUCH negative feed back about what a bad idea this "contract" was and how insulting it was to ADDr's (well, most of the negative feedback came from one voice). I felt terrible for even posting it. It was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings or expect too much from an ADHD spouse. I simply thought (from what I've read) that:
If I make a list with clearly defined tasks for us to complete it would help him.
The "contract" (for lack of better word) had plenty of "rules" for me to follow and it was not one sided. I told him I would support him, his hobbies, help with counseling etc. It was NOT a "you do as I'm saying or I'll kick your butt" list (or I certainly was NOT trying to make it that).
Is this a horrible idea? am I demoralizing individuals with ADHD or making the problems to be "child like"? I just don't know how to get my point across to my husband that there are certain household and family responsibilities that he needs to take part in.
I don't expect perfection and I expect that I will not always respond appropriately, but where does one start???
Personally, I thought your
Submitted by Scarlet on
Personally, I thought your contract sounded perfectly reasonable. Not only reasonable, but it sounded like you were bending over backward to give him only a very small portion of the chores and take on the lion's share yourself. All you were asking for was him to be accountable for a very small number of tasks and not to get angry at you if he required reminders.
However, reasonable to a "normal thinker" and reasonable to an ADD sufferer are two different things. Yes your contract was reasonable...but no, I don't think that most ADD sufferers would be able to follow such a contract successfully. At least, definitely not my husband, and from what I've been reading on these forums, it sounds like most of the other ADD spouses would fail at such a contract as well.
I've found that having rules set in stone NEVER works in my household. Having specific times/dates for chores to get done NEVER works. What does tend to work a little better is to ask nicely for something to get done in a certain time range, and followup with a reminder or two if needed (almost ALWAYS needed, unfortunately). There's no way on Earth my husband will remember that he needs to clean the litterbox or vacuum on Tuesday evening. But he has a better chance of remembering that he needs to clean the litterbox sometime between Monday and Wednesday, and he gets less "pissy" about doing it if he is given the choice of when to do it rather than me forcing him to do it Tuesday evening.
It's so frustrating for a normal thinker to have to deal with this over EVERY SINGLE LITTLE CHORE. It's exhausting and almost easier to just do the chores yourself. Before I understood that my spouse suffered from an illness, I got SO angry about this. Now, I still get tired and frustrated, but not quite so angry any more.
contract
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Your contract is just a formalization of trying to regain control over your household and your life - something that many clearly struggle with. In general, I think the idea of a contract (formal or informal) is a good one. And I think the process of creating one, even if you never end up showing it to your partner, is helpful in understanding what is really important to you and what is less important. And, remember, I'm the one who suggested the book that you got the idea from in the first place. So I support the idea of a contract. Furthermore, it's a technique that is used by counselors with some frequency, so others like the idea, too.
My suggestion is to create the contract together, is all, and to understand that a contract in a situation in which ADHD symptoms are not yet fully under control should be considered "a set of goals." In other words, I think the process should run something like this:
The problem with a contract that is dictated, no matter how hard you try to take your partner's concerns into consideration, is that it's too one-sided. He hasn't bought into what's on it, rather it's your ideas of what is reasonable. This means he'll be less invested in doing the work necessary to make the habit changes necessary to get these things done. This is an ongoing process - the first month some of the contract might get done, while other parts might not. If he's bought into the goals because he created them, his response to the incomplete nature of the first month's work might be "hmmm....didn't reach that goal...what can we do differently?" If he feels that the goals were dictated in the first place, then his response might be "well, I did some things, but I'm not getting credit for them - just getting dinged for what's undone...and I don't really care about this anyway..."
I hope this helps clarify my thoughts. As I've tried to make clear, I do support the idea of a "contract" (though I would label it something else that makes it seem more living and breathing and changing) and think you are moving in the right direction.
As for the response that you received from one person, remember that she is only one person. Please don't let the response of one person keep you from using these forums or feeling good about what you post. The conversations that go on here are important - and, yes, sometimes difficult - but have helped literally thousands and thousands of people think differently about their relationships. Your idea is an important contribution to the ongoing conversations and will give many some new ideas to contemplate.
melissa
Submitted by ebb and flow on
I agree that the non-ADD partner should learn to not critique, although it seems to be a pattern most of us tend to fall into. Also, I did mention that it is impossible to not generate defensiveness in response to criticism. That it is something we all experience--ADD or not.
I was only trying to give a suggested solution to the question 'how to not become defensive'.
I absolutely agree Carl's partner should be educating herself about ADD and working on her issues in the relationship, as well. OTH, what I've been learning on here is that we cannot control how others treat us but we can control how we respond to them.
I think Carl is trying to take control of his own issue, which is the issue of becoming defensive, and I think its great!
I WISH my ADD partner had a little bit of perspective about just how bad his defensiveness gets. And most of the time its over perceived criticism... where there was no intention on my part to criticize at all! Even just sharing a sad feeling with him sometimes gets interpreted as a criticism that he cannot make me happy, when in reality all I needed was a hug. :/
My message was intended to help, I hope it didn't do more harm than good.
:)
We live near a NASCAR track.
Submitted by SherriW13 on
We live near a NASCAR track. My husband is on charge of the IT department for the city. When the race is in, he's working 12+ hours everyday. My daughter's volleyball tournament just happened to fall on the same day as the race recently. I have a son who is autistic (and has some other problems, including seizures) and since my husband was having to work this meant spending all day at the local college gym with my son. Nothing undoable, mind you, just usually something we do together. I was saying something like "oh man, I can't believe her tournament is this weekend..when you have to work..that sucks..it's gonna be a long day." Even after all these years together, I NEVER dreamed he would take it personally..but he immediately took it as criticism and got defensive "well I'm sorry I have to work...there is nothing I can do." I spent 5 minutes convincing him that the thought had NEVER EVEN crossed my mind that it was his fault or my expression of "woe is me" had NOTHING to do with him..just me venting a little about a crappy situation. I totally get the "perceived criticism" issue...happens to me all.the.time! It's really sad when you know in your heart that it had absolutely NOTHING to do with what they are thinking, and you wonder to yourself "does he really think I'm so mean that I would just so backhandedly criticize him in such a way?" Sad...but I've learned to just reassure him until he is OK. There were situations in the past when I would get angry at his defensiveness...glad I was able to stop that. That's one good thing about knowing you're dealing with ADD.
The Beaten Dog
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Deleted by Melissa Orlov - fraudulent post.
Yeah thats us
Submitted by CrazyDave on
Deleted by Melissa Orlov. This was a fraudulent post.
Carl
Submitted by SherriW13 on
I hope I am able to put this into words in a way that isn't confusing...I'm confused just trying to think of how to say it...
You getting defensive in response to something your wife says is YOU choosing a bad behavior because you FEEL she is choosing a bad behavior. She criticizes you (or so you feel) so you respond by getting defensive. This isn't an issue that is ADD related, we all get defensive sometimes when we feel criticized. However, in my situation (my husband is ADD, I am not) MANY times things I say are taken as criticism when they were not intended to be so. Even if she is being critical, you have to break the cycle by stopping the immediate defensive reaction.
"Honey, I really wish you would have swept the floor last night like you promised"
"I know that I promised to, I simply forgot, I will go do that right now...so it won't be an issue for us"
Eventually, hopefully, she will see (if she IS being overly critical) that you're trying and that you're not going to 'go there' with her so it will give her a more positive attitude too. If she is being overly critical, that is no excuse for you to react with anger and defensiveness. If I were to be able to say something to her it would be "just because he didn't sweep the floor, that gives you no excuse to be ugly to him..or critical. There is a right way and a wrong way...a disrespectful way and a respectful way..to handle things" Point is, you both have to stop reacting to negativity with negativity...or the fighting will never stop. Even if her approach is terrible, and maybe 50% of the problem, that still doesn't excuse your unhealthy reaction. You have every right to point out to her "it is really hurtful when you come at me with that approach..why can't we try XXX" if you think it will help...but since you cannot control her, you have to control yourself. It is sometimes AMAZING at how much changes when you just change yourself.
I want to also add that I'm very encouraged by your desire to make things different for your marriage. I have a huge amount of respect for you to know that you have areas that need improvement, admit your faults, and are trying to make changes. Best of luck to you!!
so right SherriW
Submitted by hockeymom11 on
the NASCAR comment made me think "that's me". A week ago I had to run a hockey tournament/fund raiser for disabled kids. It was known to my ADD husband well in advance, but a few days before the tourny, he was called in to work that weekend. I told him, there is NO way I can opt out of this thing with hundreds of people relying on me. I tried to find alternate childcare and asked him if he could explain the situation at work (we DO Have kids and sometimes Dads need to stay home too). He got SOOOOOOO mad at me, told me I wasn't being helpful in the situation (he had actually sent me a nasty text message with the mad-about hockey thing) and I replied that I didn't want to discuss aka FIGHT about this right now. I DID spend the rest of my day at work looking into childcare (he doesn't believe me) and when I got home that evening he SCREAMED at me "I am NEVER changing my schedule for you EVER AGAIN!".
a few days ago I had a fever of 102 and was schlepping trying to get my son to hockey practice. I wasn't grumbling or venting or even complaining I had to take him and I didn't feel well at all (actually thought the cool air would help the fever :). My poor son starts crying and says "I don't want Mommy to take me, she's sick". My husband in the same room never asked if he could take him. I got the courage up and did ask my husband and he said "yes, why didn't you just ask me?". I said to him that he stated he would never change his schedule for me again and I didn't want to make him angry. I didn't really give him time to respond b/c I went off to bed.
I'm so utterly confused. Does he not remember saying that, am I supposed to oblige by what he yells at me or ignore his wishes? Does it ever begin to make sense? He takes every word as the start of a fight, I could have told him he was the best dressed man in the world, and he would take it the wrong way. I know no one can answer these questions I have, just venting. Glad someone else knows how I feel, because I'm beginning to not know how I even feel anymore.