I’m a 62 year old man with ADHD, married for 29 years. My wife and I have 2 children, ages 29 and 28. Although my wife and I knew I had ADHD all along, we never realized the extent that ADHD negatively impacted our marriage. Taking “The ADHD Effect on Marriage” last year helped turn our marriage around. I’ve optimized my meds and have developed systems to improve my reliability and productivity. My wife finally understood the destructiveness of her unrelenting criticism and aggressive anger, which frequently escalated to rage and abusive behavior. We’ve both successfully eliminated most of the negative behaviors that had contributed to an unhappy marriage. Our marriage has greatly improved. Thank you Melissa.
Before taking the course, I regularly experienced verbal, emotional and psychological abuse in my marriage. And on one occasion, my wife hit me. The abuse was never reciprocal.
Due to the positive changes we’ve both made and instituting healthy boundaries, I know my wife’s abusive behavior will not reoccur. Yet, I still bear the scars. Sometimes, I relive the specific incidents of abuse. My confidence and sense of self-worth took a beating. I have a diminished capacity to experience fun and joy. In response to maternal gatekeeping, harsh criticism and abuse, I physically and emotionally withdrew from the family. I was not the father I should have been to my children. Witnessing their mother’s behavior, my children concluded long ago I was not worthy of their respect.
My wife and I have never discussed the abuse. It’s never been acknowledged nor apologized for. I’ve not disclosed the abuse to anyone outside of therapy. I’m no longer willing to bear my experience in silence. I’m ready to face the darkness, start healing myself and hopefully remove a huge barrier in our relationship.
Melissa, I’d appreciate suggestions on how to raise this issue with my wife.
Thank you in advance.
ADHD from birth, healing
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Your story resonated with me, and I'm so sorry about the abuse. It IS hard to re-program your mind after so many years of hurtful things being said and done to you. I know what you're talking about, because I'm going through a similar thing.
My husband and I are both 61, and he was diagnosed in 2008 (ADHD), which was good to finally know. But, our situation is a little different to where he was the critical one, and didn't show affection, or love, but was overly critical and had severe unchecked ADHD, impulsive bevahior, and osur life was non stop chaotic and frustrating. I didn't nag or criticize him like a lot of non ADHD spouses do. (Our marriage was the reverse) plus, he always wanted something else, something new and shiny, and I was last on his priority list. He also had a long term affair, and other things. It crushed me, and I became someone I didn't even recognize anymore. I hated "myself" for so many reasons, but mostly for choosing this marriage and not seeing "something" ahead of time, and for the rejection and shame I felt for all the betrayal of trust and love.
Its hard for me to believe that he wants "better" now, even though he is doing MUCH better. Its so hard to trust again, after being SO beaten down, and feeling like I had zero worth as a woman. It would help if he could verbalize his positive intentions more, but this is an area he finds difficult to do.
I too am finding it very hard to sincerely enjoy the things I used to, and just be "happy". I keep waiting for the next shoe to drop, and the bottom fall out once again. Maybe that's a normal response after 30+ years of life being so unstable. I too was bombarded with constant negativity, impulsivity, and non acceptance, also with an increasing lack of a sex life till it became non existent.
My husband does still have a hard time OPENLY talking and facing the difficulties in our relationship. He's more the kind of person who thinks " It will just go away", when it doesn't. Hard to deal with that.
Healing
Submitted by ADHD From Birth on
Dedelight4, thank you for your support. You've endured a lot of heartache and pain. You mention your husband is doing MUCH better. Getting diagnosed and changing for the better shows that he didn't think "it will just go away" this time. I encourage you to:
I hope this give you some optimism for the future.
Don’t.
Submitted by smd1409 on
Imagine an employer and a job seeker. The job seeker has committed terrible acts in the past, yet has not only made up for it legally but has also taken a lot of steps to ensure that it does not happen again. Is it fair for the employer to deny him a chance to work despite the multiple pieces of evidence that proves the person has made up for their past mistakes?
What happens if this employer decides not to hire the person because they don’t think it is enough? Well, the next employer at the job the person attempts to apply for will probably act the same way, and the next, and the next. What happens at the end? This person who has not been given a second chance will likely now believe that they do not deserve a second chance. And the person will revert back to their old style and once again commit terrible acts.
Put into your context, emotions are contagious. If you cannot let go of your past emotions, despite the evidence that shows your past emotions will be unlikely to resurface through her actions, then that is your problem. She no longer does these wrongs and the very fact that she has chosen and applied everything or a great many methods she has learnt means that she acknowledges the mistakes of her past (there is no reason to alter your ways if you think there is no flaw to it). She might not want to accept it out loud, but then again, NOBODY likes to acknowledge their mistakes out loud, especially serious ones. If you bring up your past emotions, she, in an attempt to put into context what you are saying, will bring up her own emotions of you and how she felt towards you in the past and how she acted in the past may just resurface itself. And although you are ready to face your past demons, she may not be, or she may already have and you are actually about to convince her that she has not by bringing it up.
I’m not saying to you to suck up your emotions and continue as if nothing has happened. That will also have negative consequences. However I would suggest that you express these problems to someone else you can trust like a therapist to help you through your emotions. Your confidence can be rebuilt through successes, even small ones. Turn everything into a success and list all the things you did good today, even if it was just a cup of coffee you made and how good it tasted. Even if it tasted bad, the fact that you tried is enough. Note if you made an improvement on the taste at a future date. Your children, though may have lost their respect for you, can regain a respect for you once again if you give them reason to, however that may be. Show them that you can lead them forward and show them how to live their lives positively and that you will not tolerate any rudeness. Discussing your emotions with your wife will neither give you back your confidence nor regain the respect from your children.
However you choose to deal with your emotions, I would strongly suggest that it is not done by discussing it with her and that there are multiple ways to face your emotions without expressing these directly to your wife. If you look at my previous posts, you will see that a large number of them always encourage communication and discussion with the spouse, but it is not beneficial in this case. This is one of those exceptions because communication should always be positive. I’m sure after having taken Melissa’s course, you will have learnt that for example, rather than telling your other you never do X, reframe your words so that you say something like I would love you so much more if you did X, or that you would really appreciate it if your spouse would take the time to do X and that it would help me help you etc. and to choose your battles wisely. In this case, your wife has already done X and Y and is trying to go for Z, so there is nothing ‘positive’ to be gained from doing this, other than verbal proof she was in the wrong. Nobody likes being told to admit that they were wrong in an argument, and that’ll just lead to frustration so even that is not a positive.
Healing from Abuse in Marriage
Submitted by ADHD From Birth on
Smd1409, thank you for responding. I appreciate the considerable time and thought you put into crafting your reply. Upon further reflection, I realize discussing my experience is something I must do, both for myself and my marriage.
For myself – I have borne my experience in silence for over 20 years. My feelings about my experience are ever present, not in the past. Throughout my marriage, I didn’t share my thoughts and feelings with my wife, for fear sharing would trigger another outburst of verbal abuse. Continuing to be silent, never acknowledging my experience would show I was still afraid to reveal myself, that I lacked inner strength. Never acknowledging my experience is tantamount to saying my experience is not legitimate. Rather than feeling empowered, I would feel revictimized.
For my marriage – the abuse is the 800 lb gorilla in the room that we’ve tried to ignore or brush off as being ancient history. In reality, it’s a wedge between us. Not acknowledging my experience promotes neither intimacy nor healing. Silence ensures never coming to terms with the abuse, never further our understanding of it and never putting it behind us. The ghost will always be present.
I’ll approach the conversation focusing on my experience and its effect on my personality, position in the family and overall wellbeing. Very little if anything about her or her actions. I will own and take responsibility for my contribution to the negative dynamic that existed in our marriage. With an open heart, I’ll invite her to join me on a healing journey.
BTW, my therapist is strongly encouraging me to proceed.
Best wishes to you and to your wife
Submitted by Chevron on
You've both, according to your account, worked earnestly and vigorously to change the ways that you interact. You report great success on both your parts. This is very heartening.
Since you report that your wife has already done what makes an apology sincere, changed her ways of treating you that you experienced as abuse, her actions have already been discussed between you, or described well enough that she has recognised the need to stop doing what has impacted you as abusive. People dont decide to change their habits out of thin air, but because they newly look at things, compare their behavior to better, and decide to do better and make it stick.
Youve told us two more things, that you have decided, and your therapist supports, you bringing up your wife's behavior that you say has changed, to discuss her past abusivness that you say that she is no longer doing to you.
I've wondered what further you want out of her, if as you say she's no longer doing things that had harmful impact on you? It cant be to make her recognise her past harmfulness, since she's already done that or she wouldnt have changed her ways. Is it then to condemn her to her face? To get even? I'm sure you and your therapist will have clarified your goal, since your goal will determine how you approach the conversation, and what your own conduct will be in the conversation
Since you already were on your way to ths conversation with your wife about her behavior before she changed her ways, I wonder what the benefit to you has been in describing her failings to us. I hope there has been some benefit to you and to your wife in your online description of her past abuse that you say she's no longer doing.
Healing from Abuse in Marriage
Submitted by ADHD From Birth on
Chevron, thank you for commenting. It's not about discussing her past actions or condemning her past behavior. It's about my experience and how my experience has affected me. I want to be heard and for my experience to be acknowledged.
I think I understand
Submitted by Chevron on
I've often wished my husband with ADHD would give me a sign, with his face or words, that he was noticing what I was going through, or would show a sign that he recognized that what he did was hard on me.
I wish you well as you seek the same from your non ADHD wife.
I'm still impressed that your wife,as you've said, has already given you a sign of recognition of what you've been through that for me would be the only one really that I could trust long term, which is change of habit, to stop behavior that harmed me. But I do recognize and value the power of spoken recognition. Best wishes to you both. On your part, it will be good for you to speak up, if you haven't spoken up before. These things arent easy.
Healing from Abuse in Marriage
Submitted by ADHD From Birth on
Thank you. Regardless of what your husband does or doesn't say or do, draw and enforce your boundaries.
I’m confused
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
How is it that your wife was able to heal and move on, yet you are still wounded and dwelling in the past. Did you offer your wife some kind of healing that she wasn’t able to offer you? I feel like we’re not getting the whole story.
I see your response now. You never brought up your wife’s anger and lashing out. And your wife has never acknowledged her anger or apologized to you? I can see how you’re experiencing pain. I hope you can find a way to heal.
Know how you feel
Submitted by ADHD_Highway_to... on
All I can add is that I know how you feel, with teh exception of the couples treatment that you went through. Sometimes I feel like it was ALL my fault, with my DW verbally confirming it. I'd vascillate between being overly defensive and overly self flagellating apologetic - neither of which seems productive.
SHe's quick to point out my every fault, but never seems to acknowledge her part in the matter, either. . . . I'm the one with the ADHD so naturally everything bad in the relationship is my fault. Since I'm the forgetful one, my recollection of events are invalid, since I'm teh ADHDer, I'm the one who needs counseling, not her.
It didn't used to be this way . . . . . earlier in the year I blogged about how positive our relationship seemed to be heading due to BOTH of us getting help - now it seems to be slipping back to where we were this time last year.
Know how you feel
Submitted by ADHD From Birth on
I can relate. It's vitally important to draw and enforce boundaries of behaviors you will or won't tolerate. It's critical to reclaiming your personal power and self-respect.
A Small Miracle... And Second Chances
Submitted by kellyj on
Something happened on my birthday which was 10 days ago down... and I'm still recovering from the shock and processing this through. This is outside of anything that I had ever imagined or expected in fact, I never would have expected it. So much has changed in such a short amount of time..... that my Outlook and perceptions have changed dramatically however... this tiny personal miracle took some 27 years to materialize... on a deep deep spiritual level once again, it has me considering the powers of the universe. This has to do with my own personal Journey but it is relevant to everything that's been mentioned or said here. In this thread and it is the culmination it feels feels like to me..... and an answer to a long-forgotten prayer. It's almost feels like someone has been watching and waiting until I was ready to receive it. The timing and the coincidence seems almost Supernatural. It's surreal feeling.... but very very real. It's taken me 3 or 4 days of riding waves of emotions... but this time the emotions are you overwhelmingly positive and it has served to teach me and resolve and heal many wounds from the past.
There are no expiration dates for apologies..... I know this now without question if I didn't know it before. There are small Magic Bullets.. or tiny miracles that leave a profound impact if you are ready to receive them. It is like somebody has been watching and just waiting until I was ready but not before.... I had to go through my own test of Fire and then come out the other side before I was ready. Let me try to explain if I can in as brief a response here as I can.... I also just got confirmation of something else that has long since been forgotten but also true as well.... not everyone has a short attention span, OR minds long-winded... in-depth , and analytical discussions or is annoyed by all ADHD symptoms. This is something that I've noticed but now I have a deeper understanding of wh I think both ADHD at Birth... And Highway_To.... could benefit from listening to this story. It's a happy story in my case..... and the residual effect is simply humility and thankfulness..... staying true to what you believe is true.... without hearing it from the other person when our minds fill in the blanks to what we don't know. Without an open mind, and without the Forgiveness that comes with it.... it will lead you to believe things that simply aren't true.... I'm happy now to share this story because it is one that brings me joy to tell. I'm not projecting anything into the future right now at this time... I know better than that I'm taking this one day at a time and letting it sit for a while before I make any statements Beyond the present moment. I'm taking my birthday gift and basking in it for a while.... this story needs some background and some filling in the blanks so excuse me if this gets a little long but it is what it is.... I have to return to my past now in order to do this properly. Something that has always been there has just Been back to life and with that now after hours of conversation... my memories are much more accurate and redefined now ... As I've just relived that time with a completely different perspective . "It was the best of times ... And the worst of times ....." tears of joy .
When you get a chance to hear it I think it will make sense....
J
Ghost of Christmas Past Paid Me a Visit
Submitted by kellyj on
I just turned 60 which I guess is a milestone if you like even numbers.... but this story takes place in my twenties... turning back the hands of time.
I remember this time in my life extremely well.... it was a time of discovery but I'm thinking back where the vast majority of my regrets come from. I did not know... but I was about to get my first taste of the effects of my ADHD....
At age 25, I was attempting and working very hard at establishing and running a business. I had in essence... Sewed my Wild Oats and got that out of my system and was not interested in doing that anymore. I had dated a number of women off and on with no commitment whatsoever... No intention on getting married... And no reason to do so. I had other things on my mind and I didn't have time for much else... my father had just passed away, I was working 6 days a week and sometimes 12 hours a day... I have little time for anything else. My biggest concerns and worries had to do with what I now know a stage that I was going through... and beginning to make some disquieting discoveries for example...." GE I thought some of this would be much easier... Why am I having so much difficulty with this at this ripe old age that I am? This is somewhat embarrassing... People are beginning to notice." Of course with that came a great deal of stress and anxiety and the first appearance of my OCD tendencies which were a direct response to my internal dialogue and what was happening. All of this now in hindsight was me discovering the challenges that ADHD presented to me.
And during this time I had a girlfriend who was beginning to talk about marriage...."Uh Oh..... I think I have a problem?" I absolutely knew right then and there that this was not someone I was interested in marrying. It wasn't long after that that I had a close encounter....
It was after work and I was out partying with a couple friends and in a a bar that we used to frequent... in fact the one friend who was one of my best ones, was giving me the inside scoop after talking to his girlfriend who knew my girlfriend. He was the one who told me "Uh... you know X is talking about marriage to my girlfriend.... you better be aware of this because I think you might have a problem with it." Knowing me since I was 6 and knowing how I felt it was absolutely right.... and right then suddenly I noticed another friend from my past in school that I hadn't seen for a while. I immediately went over to say hello and what he was with two other people. One of them I also knew but the other was a woman... it was dark and kind of loud and noisy so I didn't really notice her all that much. She on the other hand notice to me and came over and introduced herself seeing how I knew the two guys she was with. Apparently they had met at another bar in town and she was getting a ride with them as I recall ... Her ride took off someplace else and she was just out partying and having a good time . It was the 80s .. this into perspective .... at least where I lived .... they were only so many places like this you could go and it was almost a circuit ... club hopping from place to place meant only so many choices . In some respects it was a much safer time so this was not unusual .
So, my friends and their New found one, Were supposed to meet another woman in this bar which was why they were there.... but now here I am talking to this woman I've never seen before who apparently seemed rather interested in me. It was only for 5 or 10 minutes before my friends needed to leave... Apparently they had gone to the wrong bar, and the woman they were supposed to meet was at a different one.. our Brief Encounter was over, I only remember her face and anything from the neck up, other than that I had no idea what she look like since I simply didn't see anything else than that.... but I did on impulse do it do something that was kind of unlike me which I had I forgotten about ...but apparently what I did.... was to reach into my pocket and pulled out my business card, it wasn't to drum up business... I was just compelled to do so in the moment and then forgot about it just as fast..... I didn't give that a second thought, until I got a call 2 Days Later... that was the beginning of my journey and the meeting with my first wife. I guess I made an impact which goes hand in hand.... right into this story.
Fast forward now... to the end of our marriage. We were married for only a few years... but we were together for several more before that time. It was most definitely the best of times and the worst of times.... which ended with her having an affair and wanting a divorce and then reappearing again adore months later. At the time however, she was on her own Journey and she needed to learn some things 4 + about herself. My trust had become so shaken... I simply could not trust her at that time... and she was unable to articulate what her true feelings were... exactly the same as I. I was totally ambivalent an unable to see my way too forgiving her... actually I forgave her rather quickly but I could not trust her... That was the bottom line. I simply could not take that chance and become vulnerable again... and she apparently was looking for something... but I was still the first person she thought of and a port in the storm... she came back in and then went back out of my life off and on for a few months... but by that time I had met someone new... and that someone became my second wife. The last time I saw my first wife... she had come to say goodbye.... but hoping that I wouldn't... I simply said " I can't trust you"... and that much I knew for sure. It's all I knew at the time... the hurt from her betrayal had not been resolved yet... and neither one of us had had a chance to learn what we needed to learn and how to do that at the time.
In light of the many discussions about affairs and betrayal in relationship to ADHD... in my case it was the non-adhd partner not the ADHD partner... but I fully understand now why that is. You cannot know something before you know it ...and until you do the lesson hasn't been learned yet. That was 27 years ago... and the last time I ever saw her. I need to take a break for a moment I'll come back with the part 2.... tears of joy again... I'll be back to finish.
J
Part 2... Secrets of the Universe.... again
Submitted by kellyj on
Okay I'm back after collecting my thoughts and feelings.... so 27 years ago that's where I left off.
I'm sure I've said this before but I'll put it into this context... Going to therapy and learning at least 1 little secret of the universe... I made the Monumental discovery that whatever I could see in myself... I suddenly could see it and everybody else. That's a pretty nifty trick... And I've come to find it works every time without fail. The more you see and the more you understand about you... The more you understand and see and everybody else. And when you really see just how chaotic and irrational that people really are.... you realize the difference between one person to the next is not all that much in a lot of ways. On a fundamental level ADHD or not... People do operate normally, in some pretty predictable ways. Having said that... Each person's Journey and experiences is individual and solely their own. We are all different in that respect... No two people can have the same experience... that is the single thing that that's one person apart from another... Their path or road or Journey Through Time and all the experience that go with it are yours and yours alone no one can share in that much that is an impossibility. So while the experiences are individual, the effects those experiences have on you are the things that leave the lasting impact... not as much as the experience itself. Some things you only need to do once to know exactly how it will be the next time. I don't need to go skiing... To know pretty much what that will be like. From one day to the next when it comes to skiing... They're all pretty fun and they are basically all the same. it's a repetitive thing and there's only so much variation from one day to the next with a few exceptions it's hard to tell them apart.LOL. but they're consistently good so you'll just keep doing it again but you know what to expect... I don't have very many bad day memories when I think about skiing.... back to the pizza analogy... Even lousy Pizza is still pretty good especially when you're hungry, but there's a lot worse things I could think of.... Watermelon, to name just one.LOL
So to speed this up anti this in... I was looking at my messenger from Facebook... and a message caught my eye... the reason for that was it had my last name??? A second take and it was Rebecca... and the first thing I thought of was... why does she still have my last name? Even more puzzling when I came to discover... That are passed separately have married one another very closely. In fact... I was married for 12 years before becoming divorced to my second wife... And as I learned she was married 13 years after meeting her second husband which also ended in divorce. I've lived alone for the past 8 years... Minus the time I was with D... which leaves about 4 years where I was completely by myself still living alone where I am now. RAT. ( her initials... inside joke )... has lived alone for the past five..... The Coincidence is uncanny as well as the timing which still has me reeling? I had long long long ago come to the realization that I would never see or hear from her again... So why now... Why at this time? That's a good question so I asked it?
I can make this simple and her timing was impeccable.... as she came to me in fear of what she was afraid would happen...( which didn't... The first clue to the riddle here ) she's told me she's lived a lifetime of regrets and has never been able to resolve them. As she told me " I'm getting old... And I now know what I didn't before"... but went on to say that she was afraid of what she would find even though she thought of doing this many many times before. She was married and so was I and she had a completely different life and was on a different path than I was... but now has found herself and exactly the same place at exactly the same time and has lived with her by herself for the past 5 years after her divorce. The reason for her divorce by her accounts... Was very similar to what her experience was with me but now with a different person and in some respects worse... since a decision needed to be made... And her ex-husband made it. He was still tied to his family and could not break free of their bonds. My deepest regrets of all of anyone that I've ever been with before has to do with my family, the dysfunction, and the codependents... I simply did not have the tools or even the first idea of what to do about it or how to handle it... So I did nothing. That was the Betrayal on my part.... along with the ADHD effect... Her loneliness... Her feeling like an outcast and not accepted that is... Not fitting in... Expecting to be a different person... And then having to walk in and play some scripted role that she had not the faintest idea what to do about it. It was the same codependent dance that I had to put on my tap shoes... Every time I got together with my family. I hated it as much as she did... But as she reminded me I used to say..." Don't Rock the Boat".... but I could not even begin to tell her why? What I didn't know then at the moment but did it completely differently in my second marriage... that boat needed to be rocked... And those tables needed to be turned... Big time! There were several several large elephants in the room... And the rules were never look at them or bring them up. I didn't need that much more time to figure it out.... but it was my divorce that smack me upside the head and got me up to speed in a hurry. My only failure was not knowing what to do or how to do it.... not that I didn't know that something was horribly wrong I simply was not equipped did deal or cope with a situation I had no answers for... All at a time at the same time... I was dealing on a different level. Like I said... My first Adventure with these new found peculiarities in my own behavior ie: anxiety, depression, OCD and acting very neurotic. That was a handful all by itself let alone trying to figure my family out and what I was doing wrong? It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong per say... But something needed to be done and I simply was not doing it. Not that I was doing it poorly... I did nothing at all. Zero..... it doesn't get any worse than that and for RAT.... she responded in the way she did. Her self-esteem was in the toilet as well as mine.
My deepest regrets as I said... Had to do with RAT.... I made all my worst mistakes with her... but never got a chance to correct them or make good on them. What I learned later.... and not repeating some of those from what I learned... the benefits of that went to somebody else not her... But she was the one who taught me. Of anyone that I've ever been with... she and I were communicating on the same level and she was telling me straight up..."you're Fucking Up dude..." and I listened but I didn't trust he was saying. I didn't believe her or want to believe her... but that was also not my fault. Everything that she was telling me at the time was true but I couldn't see it. All I know is I was doing what I was supposed to do but I was serving a different master and still answering to someone else. There is no should or supposed to.... if you are speaking the wrong language foreign country no one is going to understand you. Until you understand their experiences and... They come to understand why they behave the way they do.... you lose the connection between the two of you if you cannot resolve that. If there are trust issues they need to be resolved before anything else... that means forgiveness, making yourself vulnerable and taking a chance with no guarantees.
What I've come to know in the last week or so... hats filled in many many holes the story that were left open till now. What I've come to understand... is what I believed was not true at all. And in the same way the answer now... was that independently and on her own, RAT has come to the same conclusions. With humility and a sense of dread and fear... she said " I couldn't stand it any longer... I simply had to contact you. I Fucked Up... but we never got a second chance." In that much... I'd come to that conclusion long ago myself. With her above all of the people... I married her for life, I chose her to do so. We both... didn't know how. We were both innocent victims of something outside of ourselves. That and our personal experiences leading up to that time and it was the first go for either one of us... Neither one of us knew what we were doing. The trust has been broken and in our case it never was repaired... but I forgave her long long ago... and had put her finally to rest in a good place that I had prepared for her. As I told her just 2 days ago.... I have resolved all my feelings or misgivings towards her and completely forgiven her for anything and everything completely... And then she had her place and that's where she's been the entire time.
When you firmly believe that you will never see someone ever again... You never would expect them to contact you 27 years later out of the blue. RAT moved to Hawaii and lives there by herself... but actually reminded me, I was the one who first took her there and introduced her to so many things. The nicest thing I think anyone's ever said to me... was her saying " you've been my role model... For what a good person really is ... It's why I never changed my name, even after I was married to somebody else."
There is a lesson to be learned here about trust and about assuming. You cannot know what another person is thinking or feeling... unless you take the chance of a little rejection and actually say what those are? And you can't say what those are unless you know what those are or yourself not anyone else. I think that's enough for now but it speaks to this very thing.
J
Part 2... Secrets of the Universe.... again
Submitted by kellyj on
Okay I'm back after collecting my thoughts and feelings.... so 27 years ago that's where I left off.
I'm sure I've said this before but I'll put it into this context... Going to therapy and learning at least 1 little secret of the universe... I made the Monumental discovery that whatever I could see in myself... I suddenly could see it and everybody else. That's a pretty nifty trick... And I've come to find it works every time without fail. The more you see and the more you understand about you... The more you understand and see and everybody else. And when you really see just how chaotic and irrational that people really are.... you realize the difference between one person to the next is not all that much in a lot of ways. On a fundamental level ADHD or not... People do operate normally, in some pretty predictable ways. Having said that... Each person's Journey and experiences is individual and solely their own. We are all different in that respect... No two people can have the same experience... that is the single thing that that's one person apart from another... Their path or road or Journey Through Time and all the experience that go with it are yours and yours alone no one can share in that much that is an impossibility. So while the experiences are individual, the effects those experiences have on you are the things that leave the lasting impact... not as much as the experience itself. Some things you only need to do once to know exactly how it will be the next time. I don't need to go skiing... To know pretty much what that will be like. From one day to the next when it comes to skiing... They're all pretty fun and they are basically all the same. it's a repetitive thing and there's only so much variation from one day to the next with a few exceptions it's hard to tell them apart.LOL. but they're consistently good so you'll just keep doing it again but you know what to expect... I don't have very many bad day memories when I think about skiing.... back to the pizza analogy... Even lousy Pizza is still pretty good especially when you're hungry, but there's a lot worse things I could think of.... Watermelon, to name just one.LOL
So to speed this up anti this in... I was looking at my messenger from Facebook... and a message caught my eye... the reason for that was it had my last name??? A second take and it was Rebecca... and the first thing I thought of was... why does she still have my last name? Even more puzzling when I came to discover... That are passed separately have married one another very closely. In fact... I was married for 12 years before becoming divorced to my second wife... And as I learned she was married 13 years after meeting her second husband which also ended in divorce. I've lived alone for the past 8 years... Minus the time I was with D... which leaves about 4 years where I was completely by myself still living alone where I am now. RAT. ( her initials... inside joke )... has lived alone for the past five..... The Coincidence is uncanny as well as the timing which still has me reeling? I had long long long ago come to the realization that I would never see or hear from her again... So why now... Why at this time? That's a good question so I asked it?
I can make this simple and her timing was impeccable.... as she came to me in fear of what she was afraid would happen...( which didn't... The first clue to the riddle here ) she's told me she's lived a lifetime of regrets and has never been able to resolve them. As she told me " I'm getting old... And I now know what I didn't before"... but went on to say that she was afraid of what she would find even though she thought of doing this many many times before. She was married and so was I and she had a completely different life and was on a different path than I was... but now has found herself and exactly the same place at exactly the same time and has lived with her by herself for the past 5 years after her divorce. The reason for her divorce by her accounts... Was very similar to what her experience was with me but now with a different person and in some respects worse... since a decision needed to be made... And her ex-husband made it. He was still tied to his family and could not break free of their bonds. My deepest regrets of all of anyone that I've ever been with before has to do with my family, the dysfunction, and the codependents... I simply did not have the tools or even the first idea of what to do about it or how to handle it... So I did nothing. That was the Betrayal on my part.... along with the ADHD effect... Her loneliness... Her feeling like an outcast and not accepted that is... Not fitting in... Expecting to be a different person... And then having to walk in and play some scripted role that she had not the faintest idea what to do about it. It was the same codependent dance that I had to put on my tap shoes... Every time I got together with my family. I hated it as much as she did... But as she reminded me I used to say..." Don't Rock the Boat".... but I could not even begin to tell her why? What I didn't know then at the moment but did it completely differently in my second marriage... that boat needed to be rocked... And those tables needed to be turned... Big time! There were several several large elephants in the room... And the rules were never look at them or bring them up. I didn't need that much more time to figure it out.... but it was my divorce that smack me upside the head and got me up to speed in a hurry. My only failure was not knowing what to do or how to do it.... not that I didn't know that something was horribly wrong I simply was not equipped did deal or cope with a situation I had no answers for... All at a time at the same time... I was dealing on a different level. Like I said... My first Adventure with these new found peculiarities in my own behavior ie: anxiety, depression, OCD and acting very neurotic. That was a handful all by itself let alone trying to figure my family out and what I was doing wrong? It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong per say... But something needed to be done and I simply was not doing it. Not that I was doing it poorly... I did nothing at all. Zero..... it doesn't get any worse than that and for RAT.... she responded in the way she did. Her self-esteem was in the toilet as well as mine.
My deepest regrets as I said... Had to do with RAT.... I made all my worst mistakes with her... but never got a chance to correct them or make good on them. What I learned later.... and not repeating some of those from what I learned... the benefits of that went to somebody else not her... But she was the one who taught me. Of anyone that I've ever been with... she and I were communicating on the same level and she was telling me straight up..."you're Fucking Up dude..." and I listened but I didn't trust he was saying. I didn't believe her or want to believe her... but that was also not my fault. Everything that she was telling me at the time was true but I couldn't see it. All I know is I was doing what I was supposed to do but I was serving a different master and still answering to someone else. There is no should or supposed to.... if you are speaking the wrong language foreign country no one is going to understand you. Until you understand their experiences and... They come to understand why they behave the way they do.... you lose the connection between the two of you if you cannot resolve that. If there are trust issues they need to be resolved before anything else... that means forgiveness, making yourself vulnerable and taking a chance with no guarantees.
What I've come to know in the last week or so... hats filled in many many holes the story that were left open till now. What I've come to understand... is what I believed was not true at all. And in the same way the answer now... was that independently and on her own, RAT has come to the same conclusions. With humility and a sense of dread and fear... she said " I couldn't stand it any longer... I simply had to contact you. I Fucked Up... but we never got a second chance." In that much... I'd come to that conclusion long ago myself. With her above all of the people... I married her for life, I chose her to do so. We both... didn't know how. We were both innocent victims of something outside of ourselves. That and our personal experiences leading up to that time and it was the first go for either one of us... Neither one of us knew what we were doing. The trust has been broken and in our case it never was repaired... but I forgave her long long ago... and had put her finally to rest in a good place that I had prepared for her. As I told her just 2 days ago.... I have resolved all my feelings or misgivings towards her and completely forgiven her for anything and everything completely... And then she had her place and that's where she's been the entire time.
When you firmly believe that you will never see someone ever again... You never would expect them to contact you 27 years later out of the blue. RAT moved to Hawaii and lives there by herself... but actually reminded me, I was the one who first took her there and introduced her to so many things. The nicest thing I think anyone's ever said to me... was her saying " you've been my role model... For what a good person really is ... It's why I never changed my name, even after I was married to somebody else."
There is a lesson to be learned here about trust and about assuming. You cannot know what another person is thinking or feeling... unless you take the chance of a little rejection and actually say what those are? And you can't say what those are unless you know what those are or yourself not anyone else. I think that's enough for now but it speaks to this very thing.
J
Part 2... Secrets of the Universe.... again
Submitted by kellyj on
Okay I'm back after collecting my thoughts and feelings.... so 27 years ago that's where I left off.
I'm sure I've said this before but I'll put it into this context... Going to therapy and learning at least 1 little secret of the universe... I made the Monumental discovery that whatever I could see in myself... I suddenly could see it and everybody else. That's a pretty nifty trick... And I've come to find it works every time without fail. The more you see and the more you understand about you... The more you understand and see and everybody else. And when you really see just how chaotic and irrational that people really are.... you realize the difference between one person to the next is not all that much in a lot of ways. On a fundamental level ADHD or not... People do operate normally, in some pretty predictable ways. Having said that... Each person's Journey and experiences is individual and solely their own. We are all different in that respect... No two people can have the same experience... that is the single thing that that's one person apart from another... Their path or road or Journey Through Time and all the experience that go with it are yours and yours alone no one can share in that much that is an impossibility. So while the experiences are individual, the effects those experiences have on you are the things that leave the lasting impact... not as much as the experience itself. Some things you only need to do once to know exactly how it will be the next time. I don't need to go skiing... To know pretty much what that will be like. From one day to the next when it comes to skiing... They're all pretty fun and they are basically all the same. it's a repetitive thing and there's only so much variation from one day to the next with a few exceptions it's hard to tell them apart.LOL. but they're consistently good so you'll just keep doing it again but you know what to expect... I don't have very many bad day memories when I think about skiing.... back to the pizza analogy... Even lousy Pizza is still pretty good especially when you're hungry, but there's a lot worse things I could think of.... Watermelon, to name just one.LOL
So to speed this up anti this in... I was looking at my messenger from Facebook... and a message caught my eye... the reason for that was it had my last name??? A second take and it was Rebecca... and the first thing I thought of was... why does she still have my last name? Even more puzzling when I came to discover... That are passed separately have married one another very closely. In fact... I was married for 12 years before becoming divorced to my second wife... And as I learned she was married 13 years after meeting her second husband which also ended in divorce. I've lived alone for the past 8 years... Minus the time I was with D... which leaves about 4 years where I was completely by myself still living alone where I am now. RAT. ( her initials... inside joke )... has lived alone for the past five..... The Coincidence is uncanny as well as the timing which still has me reeling? I had long long long ago come to the realization that I would never see or hear from her again... So why now... Why at this time? That's a good question so I asked it?
I can make this simple and her timing was impeccable.... as she came to me in fear of what she was afraid would happen...( which didn't... The first clue to the riddle here ) she's told me she's lived a lifetime of regrets and has never been able to resolve them. As she told me " I'm getting old... And I now know what I didn't before"... but went on to say that she was afraid of what she would find even though she thought of doing this many many times before. She was married and so was I and she had a completely different life and was on a different path than I was... but now has found herself and exactly the same place at exactly the same time and has lived with her by herself for the past 5 years after her divorce. The reason for her divorce by her accounts... Was very similar to what her experience was with me but now with a different person and in some respects worse... since a decision needed to be made... And her ex-husband made it. He was still tied to his family and could not break free of their bonds. My deepest regrets of all of anyone that I've ever been with before has to do with my family, the dysfunction, and the codependents... I simply did not have the tools or even the first idea of what to do about it or how to handle it... So I did nothing. That was the Betrayal on my part.... along with the ADHD effect... Her loneliness... Her feeling like an outcast and not accepted that is... Not fitting in... Expecting to be a different person... And then having to walk in and play some scripted role that she had not the faintest idea what to do about it. It was the same codependent dance that I had to put on my tap shoes... Every time I got together with my family. I hated it as much as she did... But as she reminded me I used to say..." Don't Rock the Boat".... but I could not even begin to tell her why? What I didn't know then at the moment but did it completely differently in my second marriage... that boat needed to be rocked... And those tables needed to be turned... Big time! There were several several large elephants in the room... And the rules were never look at them or bring them up. I didn't need that much more time to figure it out.... but it was my divorce that smack me upside the head and got me up to speed in a hurry. My only failure was not knowing what to do or how to do it.... not that I didn't know that something was horribly wrong I simply was not equipped did deal or cope with a situation I had no answers for... All at a time at the same time... I was dealing on a different level. Like I said... My first Adventure with these new found peculiarities in my own behavior ie: anxiety, depression, OCD and acting very neurotic. That was a handful all by itself let alone trying to figure my family out and what I was doing wrong? It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong per say... But something needed to be done and I simply was not doing it. Not that I was doing it poorly... I did nothing at all. Zero..... it doesn't get any worse than that and for RAT.... she responded in the way she did. Her self-esteem was in the toilet as well as mine.
My deepest regrets as I said... Had to do with RAT.... I made all my worst mistakes with her... but never got a chance to correct them or make good on them. What I learned later.... and not repeating some of those from what I learned... the benefits of that went to somebody else not her... But she was the one who taught me. Of anyone that I've ever been with... she and I were communicating on the same level and she was telling me straight up..."you're Fucking Up dude..." and I listened but I didn't trust he was saying. I didn't believe her or want to believe her... but that was also not my fault. Everything that she was telling me at the time was true but I couldn't see it. All I know is I was doing what I was supposed to do but I was serving a different master and still answering to someone else. There is no should or supposed to.... if you are speaking the wrong language foreign country no one is going to understand you. Until you understand their experiences and... They come to understand why they behave the way they do.... you lose the connection between the two of you if you cannot resolve that. If there are trust issues they need to be resolved before anything else... that means forgiveness, making yourself vulnerable and taking a chance with no guarantees.
What I've come to know in the last week or so... hats filled in many many holes the story that were left open till now. What I've come to understand... is what I believed was not true at all. And in the same way the answer now... was that independently and on her own, RAT has come to the same conclusions. With humility and a sense of dread and fear... she said " I couldn't stand it any longer... I simply had to contact you. I Fucked Up... but we never got a second chance." In that much... I'd come to that conclusion long ago myself. With her above all of the people... I married her for life, I chose her to do so. We both... didn't know how. We were both innocent victims of something outside of ourselves. That and our personal experiences leading up to that time and it was the first go for either one of us... Neither one of us knew what we were doing. The trust has been broken and in our case it never was repaired... but I forgave her long long ago... and had put her finally to rest in a good place that I had prepared for her. As I told her just 2 days ago.... I have resolved all my feelings or misgivings towards her and completely forgiven her for anything and everything completely... And then she had her place and that's where she's been the entire time.
When you firmly believe that you will never see someone ever again... You never would expect them to contact you 27 years later out of the blue. RAT moved to Hawaii and lives there by herself... but actually reminded me, I was the one who first took her there and introduced her to so many things. The nicest thing I think anyone's ever said to me... was her saying " you've been my role model... For what a good person really is ... It's why I never changed my name, even after I was married to somebody else."
There is a lesson to be learned here about trust and about assuming. You cannot know what another person is thinking or feeling... unless you take the chance of a little rejection and actually say what those are? And you can't say what those are unless you know what those are or yourself not anyone else. I think that's enough for now but it speaks to this very thing.
J
Part 2... Secrets of the Universe.... again
Submitted by kellyj on
Okay I'm back after collecting my thoughts and feelings.... so 27 years ago that's where I left off.
I'm sure I've said this before but I'll put it into this context... Going to therapy and learning at least 1 little secret of the universe... I made the Monumental discovery that whatever I could see in myself... I suddenly could see it and everybody else. That's a pretty nifty trick... And I've come to find it works every time without fail. The more you see and the more you understand about you... The more you understand and see and everybody else. And when you really see just how chaotic and irrational that people really are.... you realize the difference between one person to the next is not all that much in a lot of ways. On a fundamental level ADHD or not... People do operate normally, in some pretty predictable ways. Having said that... Each person's Journey and experiences is individual and solely their own. We are all different in that respect... No two people can have the same experience... that is the single thing that that's one person apart from another... Their path or road or Journey Through Time and all the experience that go with it are yours and yours alone no one can share in that much that is an impossibility. So while the experiences are individual, the effects those experiences have on you are the things that leave the lasting impact... not as much as the experience itself. Some things you only need to do once to know exactly how it will be the next time. I don't need to go skiing... To know pretty much what that will be like. From one day to the next when it comes to skiing... They're all pretty fun and they are basically all the same. it's a repetitive thing and there's only so much variation from one day to the next with a few exceptions it's hard to tell them apart.LOL. but they're consistently good so you'll just keep doing it again but you know what to expect... I don't have very many bad day memories when I think about skiing.... back to the pizza analogy... Even lousy Pizza is still pretty good especially when you're hungry, but there's a lot worse things I could think of.... Watermelon, to name just one.LOL
So to speed this up and get right to it.... I was looking at my messenger from Facebook... and a message caught my eye... the reason for that was it had my last name??? A second take and it was Rebecca... and the first thing I thought of was... why does she still have my last name? Even more puzzling when I came to discover... That our paths separately have , have mirrored one another very closely. In fact... I was married for 12 years before becoming divorced to my second wife... And as I learned she was married 13 years after meeting her second husband which also ended in divorce. I've lived alone for the past 8 years... Minus the time I was with D... which leaves about 4 years where I was completely by myself still living alone where I am now. RAT. ( her initials... inside joke )... has lived alone for the past five..... The Coincidence is uncanny as well as the timing which still has me reeling? I had long long long ago come to the realization that I would never see or hear from her again... So why now... Why at this time? That's a good question so I asked it?
I can make this simple and her timing was impeccable.... as she came to me in fear of what she was afraid would happen...( which didn't... The first clue to the riddle here ) she's told me she's lived a lifetime of regrets and has never been able to resolve them. As she told me " I'm getting old... And I now know what I didn't before"... but went on to say that she was afraid of what she would find even though she thought of doing this many many times before. She was married and so was I and she had a completely different life and was on a different path than I was... but now has found herself and exactly the same place at exactly the same time and has lived with her by herself for the past 5 years after her divorce. The reason for her divorce by her accounts... Was very similar to what her experience was with me but now with a different person and in some respects worse... since a decision needed to be made... And her ex-husband made it. He was still tied to his family and could not break free of their bonds. My deepest regrets of all of anyone that I've ever been with before has to do with my family, the dysfunction, and the codependents... I simply did not have the tools or even the first idea of what to do about it or how to handle it... So I did nothing. That was the Betrayal on my part.... along with the ADHD effect... Her loneliness... Her feeling like an outcast and not accepted that is... Not fitting in... Expecting to be a different person... And then having to walk in and play some scripted role that she had not the faintest idea what to do about it. It was the same codependent dance that I had to put on my tap shoes... Every time I got together with my family. I hated it as much as she did... But as she reminded me I used to say..." Don't Rock the Boat".... but I could not even begin to tell her why? What I didn't know then at the moment but did it completely differently in my second marriage... that boat needed to be rocked... And those tables needed to be turned... Big time! There were several several large elephants in the room... And the rules were never look at them or bring them up. I didn't need that much more time to figure it out.... but it was my divorce that smack me upside the head and got me up to speed in a hurry. My only failure was not knowing what to do or how to do it.... not that I didn't know that something was horribly wrong I simply was not equipped did deal or cope with a situation I had no answers for... All at a time at the same time... I was dealing on a different level. Like I said... My first Adventure with these new found peculiarities in my own behavior ie: anxiety, depression, OCD and acting very neurotic. That was a handful all by itself let alone trying to figure my family out and what I was doing wrong? It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong per say... But something needed to be done and I simply was not doing it. Not that I was doing it poorly... I did nothing at all. Zero..... it doesn't get any worse than that and for RAT.... she responded in the way she did. Her self-esteem was in the toilet as well as mine.
My deepest regrets as I said... Had to do with RAT.... I made all my worst mistakes with her... but never got a chance to correct them or make good on them. What I learned later.... and not repeating some of those from what I learned... the benefits of that went to somebody else not her... But she was the one who taught me. Of anyone that I've ever been with... she and I were communicating on the same level and she was telling me straight up..."you're Fucking Up dude..." and I listened but I didn't trust he was saying. I didn't believe her or want to believe her... but that was also not my fault. Everything that she was telling me at the time was true but I couldn't see it. All I know is I was doing what I was supposed to do but I was serving a different master and still answering to someone else. There is no should or supposed to.... if you are speaking the wrong language foreign country no one is going to understand you. Until you understand their experiences and... They come to understand why they behave the way they do.... you lose the connection between the two of you if you cannot resolve that. If there are trust issues they need to be resolved before anything else... that means forgiveness, making yourself vulnerable and taking a chance with no guarantees.
What I've come to know in the last week or so... hats filled in many many holes the story that were left open till now. What I've come to understand... is what I believed was not true at all. And in the same way the answer now... was that independently and on her own, RAT has come to the same conclusions. With humility and a sense of dread and fear... she said " I couldn't stand it any longer... I simply had to contact you. I Fucked Up... but we never got a second chance." In that much... I'd come to that conclusion long ago myself. With her above all of the people... I married her for life, I chose her to do so. We both... didn't know how. We were both innocent victims of something outside of ourselves. That and our personal experiences leading up to that time and it was the first go for either one of us... Neither one of us knew what we were doing. The trust has been broken and in our case it never was repaired... but I forgave her long long ago... and had put her finally to rest in a good place that I had prepared for her. As I told her just 2 days ago.... I have resolved all my feelings or misgivings towards her and completely forgiven her for anything and everything completely... And then she had her place and that's where she's been the entire time.
When you firmly believe that you will never see someone ever again... You never would expect them to contact you 27 years later out of the blue. RAT moved to Hawaii and lives there by herself... but actually reminded me, I was the one who first took her there and introduced her to so many things. The nicest thing I think anyone's ever said to me... was her saying " you've been my role model... For what a good person really is ... It's why I never changed my name, even after I was married to somebody else."
There is a lesson to be learned here about trust and about assuming. You cannot know what another person is thinking or feeling... unless you take the chance of a little rejection and actually say what those are? And you can't say what those are unless you know what those are or yourself not anyone else. I think that's enough for now but it speaks to this very thing.
J