This was a question I was trying to find out when we were planning to enter marriage counseling but H sabotaged that so now we are no longer going. I did manage to ask before we ended therapy, how do I tell if he is in an ADD moment, selfish bad behavior due to poor upbringing, pain due to past spinal chord injury 25 years ago? So many issues which am I dealing with. The psychiatrist he WAS seeing said it is not my job he needs to express what the problem is. I told him given the fact communication is non existent with him I don't see that happening but ok.
So this happened last night and I dunno I just think this is a selfish moment. An all about me, which seems to be his personality actually the longer I have known him (almost 8 years, 5 of these married with going on 3 kids).
---So last night I am rolled into this chair trying to be comfortable and rest and aching and feeling like crap at 9.5 months pregnant (still working full time and managing kids), while my 2 toddlers play on tablet and Adhd H announces that because I stopped massaging his toe and stretching it for him (as if we had some physical therapy session going on for years?) it has disabled him. I used to roll it around on occasion for him when he came back from a long construction week or hunting etc... and it was all crippled up but stopped over time because caring for kids, myself, house, EVERYTHING and honestly his personality last 3 years has just repulsed me.
Of course his toe problem (he has severe bunions) is not the fact that 2 doctors now (that I dragged him too b/c he won't go himself) have told him genetically he has bad feet. I mean his mother wears braces on her feet in order to walk straight and he has same feet! It's me not "attending to him". I thought to myself this dude is a trip!
I just said well I bought you some toe stretchers and massager's a few months ago and you don't even use them so I at least get points for that. I wanted to say go #$%^ yourself you selfish bastard, I am on kid 3 in 5 years at not a young age and have gotten very little empathy and support from you let alone a single massage! I also wanted to say if it were not for me your double hernia would not be fixed and you would not even know you have genetically bad feet and hips, you would still think it all was a result of your spinal chord injury! I mean the things he has problems with can be fixed. I provide him health insurance through my work. I tell him go get it fixed. Go to therapy we will figure out how to pay for it. Go exercise, sit in hot tub regularly and stretch whatever you need to not be in pain. But he never does it. Seems selfish to me to just bitch and blame someone who has done nothing but support you.
And he wonders why I am ready for divorce after I have this kid, get healthy and get back to work. Which is a whole other story b/c even though I have told him this plan he seems to act like I have never said a word and we are just golden. Need to get off this crazy train!
I can relate to this!!
Submitted by rainbow on
My boyfriend has back problems from the military (he got out in 2005). So far he hasn’t been awarded any disability; he filed for it once (about three years ago), they denied him, and he never appealed (most vets will tell you they had to appeal at least once). He has a purple heart – so he has healthcare for life – but he does not utilize it.
For a while he was seeing a chiropractor, paid for by the VA. But the VA had to “authorize” the appointments and would only do twelve at a time (or something along those lines). The authorization for the appointments kept lapsing, so there would be long stretches of time where he wasn’t being seen at all. He refused to pay for any of it out-of-pocket, no matter how miserable he was (even though financially, we could have swung it).
Instead, he wanted me to rub his back all the time (still does, actually – he has now stopped going to the chiropractor altogether, swears it never helped anyway).
My thing is...I’m worried about my hands!!! He wants me to rub him really rough and hard in a targeted area. Eventually my hands/fingers get exhausted. At that point he basically begs me to keep going, saying that “it’s almost there” or “I almost had it” or whatever. I’m concerned about getting carpal tunnel or somehow otherwise hurting myself.
He knows it physically hurts me and that I’m worried about it. Like I said, his reaction is usually something like…”I’m almost adjusted! One more time, please!" It seems like he views it as one of MY responsibilities to keep his back feeling good. He also asks at the most inconvenient times - the urgency of his problem trumps whatever else I'm doing. "I can't relax because it won't stop hurting!", he says. He bugs me about it until I cater to him.
Sometimes he says he will rub me in return to try and tempt me into it. He doesn't rub me as well or for as long, but try telling him that (he argues it isn't true). I've actually considered setting a timer, but that would only solve half the problem.
The craziest part about it is he complains about his back issues daily. I mean constantly, folks. Yet when he goes to the VA for his yearly checkup he acts like a freaking spring chicken, all friendly, saying “yep, I’m doing great today!” Unfortunately, that was his attitude the day he went in to get evaluated for his disability, too.
I also want to add - I certainly do believe in doing favors for your partner. For example, if I woke up with a stiff neck that was really bothering me, I feel it would be acceptable to urgently request a short rub from my partner in order to try to get a bit of quick relief. But I would still take some Ibuprophen and try myself to lightly stretch it out throughout the course of the day. If my stiff neck became a chronic, everyday problem, I would address why that was. I would ask myself, "do I need a new pillow?", something along those lines.
Well wishes to you and your family. Hope your baby is born healthy and SOON!!!
Advice from an old hand
Submitted by jennalemone on
I was you guys 40 years ago. ahhhh... H always wanted me to do some sort of work that was his to do but would somehow manipulate me into to doing it. I am embarrassed to say that he would always call me into the bathroom and "have me" wash his back for him....things like that. I, just like you wanted to make H feel loved and cared for and it was no biggy to me that I could help in the way that he would appreciate most just because he asked. Now, I realize that I helped let him be a baby dictator. I was doing things I sometimes thought strange "for" him. That IS love but does not work with someone who abuses the situation. Then there is no love coming to you. Just you being at his beck and call to "pleasure" him in a way that is uncomfortable to you.
So I am guessing you are looking for concrete ways to respond...like I would have wanted to know long agao. Looking back, H would have been better off with a spouse who gave him some lip, some sass, some back and forth swiping and sparring.....someone who would consistently set him in his place and been strong. Some guys like that. If he is pushing your buttons, he is either playing with you looking for some play back OR he is just a jerk.
Unless you want to be resentful and have daily pity parties like I have done, here are some responses. I have to say that they just "aren't who I am" and that is why I did not use these ideas myself. But since you are young and want to stay in your relationship and have sanity, you will have some fightin' to do....do it.
When H wants you to rub his back? say, "I am not going to rub your damn back! GET YOURSELF TO THE DOCTOR and ask him to give you an Rx for Physical Therapy by someone who can do much better than me and will be paid for by the insurance. " Then don't EVER rub his back again. Don't feel like you are being mean to him. He is being mean to you to expect you to do this. He is enjoying the back rubs AND the ego boost of having a minion doing his bidding.
My granddaughter is good at being the baby dictator. And I frequently fall into her traps...she is so unabashedly manipulative and demanding. When I get the point that she is taking control over me, I have to be very stern with her...VERY STERN (unlike me). After she throws her fit and "punishes" me by saying manipulative things and stonewalling me....after she knows she can't get away with it, she is very lovey dovey and respects me more.
Some people don't know how to really love. It is all game playing and "personality" and RESPECT is the closest thing to love they know. Find out who your partner is in this area of having the ability to care about you or playing games of respect and ego.
Giving a firm “no” is much
Submitted by rainbow on
Giving a firm “no” is much easier said than done. This specific issue is not the biggest fish we have to fry; the truth is, I need to do the “no” thing in a bunch of different facets of our relationship. So far I haven’t figured out how to do that successfully.
I believe I am more outspoken than your “typical” woman. Sass? Check. Putting him in his place? Check. Swiping and sparring, check.
Regarding the backrubs, I have always made it known that it isn’t something I enjoy or feel that I should be doing for him. I DO NOT sugar-coat it. He knows he is (by my definition) inconveniencing me. It does not faze him. Instead, it prompts him to list things (he feels) he does in return for me (sort of trying to prove why I “owe” him), or things that he’ll do in return to make it worth my while (I should probably be playing into this one more, lol!).
This is where, for me, the question of “is it ADD or self-centeredness” comes into play. It’s an important question, I think, because the distinction helps me decide what I’m willing to tolerate and forgive versus not.
In my relationship, it’s the same process for the back-rub issue as for anything – boyfriend says he will do something and then does not follow through. He also has a blown-up notion of what he contributes in the relationship, and a poor memory for things that already happened.
Because of all this, trying to talk anything through with him is a mind-screw. My judgment is constantly called into question. His reality is not the same as my reality. His definition of what constitutes a “good” or “successful” relationship is based on a completely different set of criteria than mine. We can talk all day, but we aren’t really “communicating.”
The back-rub thing is a great example. The night I saw jennalemone’s response to my post, I decided to have a talk with him about how I feel his back problems are getting progressively worse and that he cannot keep counting on me for “relief.” My intent was not to do the firm “no” thing…I was just feeling frustrated and wanted to experiment with what I could do with the situation. I wanted to make 100% sure my feelings were known.
I forget my exact words but I was trying to direct the conversation to possible future options that don’t require me to take the brunt of his “care.” My tone at that point wasn’t angry, it was concerned. I swear you guys, SWEAR, that I was trying to make the focus of the conversation about HIS future and not about ME specifically.
Still, his initial response was, “I didn’t ask you to rub my back yesterday…”
Unfortunately I lost my cool here. It was true, but hardly a reflection of our normal routine, I told him. He quickly got all sullen and said he would “try not to ask me to rub him so much” (basically the “poor me” regime).
As per usual, it was a dead-end conversation. In fact, it was like we weren’t even having the same conversation (this happens A LOT).
My experience proves jennalemone’s point – he isn’t going to come to an understanding with me about it. I have to just “cut him off,” and that kills me. As stupid as it sounds, I don’t think he’s doing it because he’s a total jerk; I think he’s doing it because he doesn’t understand/see how A leads to B (and there we go with the “is it ADHD” question again).
Sorry to say, I have worked on his back a few times since. He has been somewhat less demanding about when and how I do it, so I guess what I had to say was at least a little bit meaningful to him (for the time being).
Ultimately I’m still with him in spite of all his crazy antics because I DON’T believe he is “just” self-centered. It’s so much more complicated than that.
I didn't ask you to rub my back yesterday.
Submitted by jennalemone on
This is EXACTLY what my H would say. Everything you describe is EXACTLY like my H. If there is an issue, instead of being introspective and discussing, he would put the onus on me and turn things around in the communication to a place where I am incredulous and speechless with the topic turned around into "poor him", shining a light on his stellar performance for NOT doing something once. It is truly crazy making when you try to have an intimate sharing conversation.
On the subject of saying "no", I did not allow myself to say "no" to my H. When you are in an oppressive situation, NOT saying "no" makes a person a victim. I pitied myself, the victim of his heartless ways.
Oppression is something that crushes your spirit. Love is something that lifts your heart up. It is sad to say that with some people you must fight so that your spirit does not get crushed. Fighting doesn't mean arguing. Fighting for your own spirit means that you will not permit someone's words or actions or inaction make you feel crushed. Your guy does not "feel" you. He has slipped into a comfortable habit of making you feel bad so you do what he wants. Just because he responds negatively or obliquely to your attempts at conversation and solutions, doesn't mean you need to change how you feel or what you expect of him. After he says, "I didn't ask you to rub my back yesterday" does not close the conversation or the issue you have. Do NOT give this man another back rub or you will be doing things for him you are uncomfortable with forever. And when you want to stop, he will be angry because you stopped, not appreciate what you did.
Responses for "I didn't ask you to rub my back yesterday":
You: "How did your back feel yesterday? Did it hurt terribly? What are you going to do about your back? No, back rubs do not get rid of back pain long term....just a little better for a short while. You have had this for a long while. You need some long term help with your back. Oh, your not going to do that? OK." Then don't give him another back rub. When he asks, ignore him. Don't fight about it. Yes, I know, this is not how love is supposed to work. But acceptance is better than victimhood.
Yes. This.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
I just want to second this. This happened in my relationship as well. Every single time my ex and I had a problem he would get me to give in. Of course, I loved him and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, so I would. It was a pattern that was established early on.
He started off in a positive manner by using affection or by talking big about our future together or by selling me a pity ploy until he could convince me that he would take care of whatever the issue was (which he then never followed through on). At the time I thought I was compromising and that he would keep his word. But he didn't. So when the positive manipulation began to stop working he would then turn to negative manipulation until he could wear me down with arguing/yelling or blame or stonewalling/silent treatment until I caved.
When I finally put my foot down and stuck to my guns about what I needed in the relatioship he became completely hostile and refused to cooperate at all. Instead he accused me of not doing anything to help us and complained that I was only setting boundaries to help myself and not him or us. That statement was utter nonsense. I had spent 5 years trying to help him and us and he refused every single offer or attempt I made.
When I pointed that out, he said to me "Well, I'm talking about now. You're not doing anything to help us now." It was unbelievable. There was absolutely no accountability on his end and he could not or would not acknowledge the efforts I had previously made or even admit how badly he was behaving at the time. He just did not want to accept responsibility for his own situation (his financial problems, inability to start his divorce, etc) or for the subsequent instability and other issues that it had created in our relationship.
And when he couldn't get me to do what he wanted one more time... he left.
Never again.
Yes, this too.
Submitted by jennalemone on
I could have written this too. Very similar difficulty trying to communicate with a spouse and the spouse not aware or not willing to play as a team.
Just reading over this thread
Submitted by c ur self on
Just reading over this thread,, it seems we are all in somewhat of the same boat in many ways....The way I see it...When one partner has this needy type (selfish) victim mind going...And the other has this desire to share in everything, looking for a loving healthy relationship...Person number 2 is going to experience a lot of frustration....
It seems that our very life styles is pure poison when it come to them being responsible adults....They learn right off how to use us....A loving, working partner hates to say no, and that is what they are counting on...
When we suffer enough, we learn to walk away w/ a simple no....Never allow yourself to be badgered for not enabling them...That's abuse.....
C
Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
Submitted by ccarpenter on
I read and re read through all of these forums and I can painfully relate to just about every one of them. I have posted to find solace in my situation, as my ADHD partner walked out when things became too tough. I am going through a hell of a time internalizing everything I could have done differently and everything I could have been better about. I was the one with the sass, and standing my ground and it worked for a while, until the discussion about treatment and counseling became all too real. I am going through the loss of an estranged father whom was never in my life, and it has created a sense of abandonment, and mistrust. When I needed my partner the most, was when he distanced himself and ran away ultimately leading to my worst fears becoming a reality in my relationship. I was leaning and grasping for support, while he was removing himself. He once said, "I cannot feel empathy the way you do." I truly do not understand this.
So my main question is, how do you get past this with your ADHD partner? Is it all gloom and doom, or is there really a light at the end of the tunnel? How do you learn how to effectively communicate? Me as the non adder has invested my whole heart. I was always willing to go the extra mile and work to make things right. As cliche as it is, I believed that all the love we had for one another would power through the toughest of times. I just don't know what to do. I am currently in therapy learning to cope with this sense of abandonment and mistrust. It's a new year, and this is all doesn't feel real and I have so many unanswered questions.