Submitted by purplesquirrel on 01/01/2018.
Hi, my partner was diagnosed with ADHD and was on medication and seeking help before I met him. He changed jobs during our relationship and chose to come off the meds as he was no longer covered with private health insurance.
We now have terrible rows. He goes from 0-100 in the space of a few seconds. Then he is like a dog with a bone. He won’t stop ranting. It’s awful. He’s not very good at empathising either or reflecting.
The reason I’m still here is because he is incredibly lovely. He has changed so much over our time together in a good way.
I hit crisis point over Christmas. I am ready to leave. He is going to arrange Cbt as soon as he can and look at going back on the meds.
Will these measures help his anger? Or are we doomed?
Being in a hard place myself
Submitted by FranticZen on
Being in a hard place myself (I’m the ADHD one), I can only say that him not taking action before it’s almost too late is typical ADHD behaviour and should not be taken as an indication of his willingness to change.
On the plus side: Once an ADHD person realizes the consequences and impact of his symptoms on a loved one, he is extremely dedicated to make the changes necessary.
On the minus side: We ADHD-ers can focus extremely hard on things that are important to us ... but we forget to do so when things start to settle down. We need a “priority-booster” every now and then, and it can be hard to find a recipe that works.
One idea could be for him to set a reminder every month or so, saying: “Remember how things were between you and your wife during Christmas ‘17? Don’t let that happen again!”
Hope things work out for you.
/Thomas
In Response
Submitted by ccarpenter on
Thomas, thank you for your comment. When you stated, "We ADHD-ers can focus extremely hard on things that are important to us ... but we forget to do so when things start to settle down. We need a “priority-booster” every now and then, and it can be hard to find a recipe that works."
Does this mean when something is no longer considered important, then the focus is not there for it to be a priority or does it just get lost because something else caught their attention and now they are distracted? I am going through a terrible time with a separation from my ADHD partner. I have been trying my best to understand ADHD better. We got trapped in a parent/child dynamic and he stonewalled me when times got tough with the arguing and not being able to effectively communicate. I wanted to work through all of it. I suggested therapy/coaching/couples counseling. 9 months ago he was ok with it, 5 weeks ago he said "I don't think it is going to change anything," and just left, no communication, no nothing. He was diagnosed over 10 years ago and has not been on any type of treatment. I wanted to do what it takes to get through all of this, to understand ADHD, to work through it as a couple. After only a few weeks I found out that he was on a dating site and my world came crashing. We were together for over 3 years. Right now, I am trying to focus on bettering me and my health, as this has taken a serious toll on my anxiety. If there is any feedback you could provide from an ADHD man's perspective, anything would be greatly appreciated.
Hi there ...
Submitted by FranticZen on
Hi there ...
I can, of course, only speak for myself:
Even though focus is not on currently on a subject, it does not mean that the subject is not important to me, I know what matters to me, but lack the sense of urgency/prioritization in my personal life.
ADHD’ers are often “thrillseekers” - we look for new things to dive into and for things that give us instant feedback, like computer games, extreme sports or even drugs.
In your case, the parent/child role probably triggered a need to get some kind of positive feedback. “Likes” and conversations with women that found him interesting has probably given him the feeling of appreciation and desire that he was craving as the result of the parent/child dynamic.
I’m not saying that this is your fault, it’s 100% his choice to make an irresponsible move like that, but I can recognize the mechanism that drives him.
Not going on medication is/was a huge mistake - I would even call it irresponsible as he already had the diagnose. I know there may be drawbacks, but the benefits outweigh these by far. I am also positive that he will repeat the same pattern again in the future unless he takes action and gets some kind of professional help
I am sorry that you both have had to go through this - unfortunately, we ADHD’ers have some dark sides (some of which can be vastly improved with proper care) ... but we are also brilliant, funny and wonderfully weird :)
I am currently listening to “The ADHD effect on marriage” by Melissa Orlov and, while only a few chapters in, I find it very informative/enlightening and I think you will appreciate it as well.
I wish you a speedy recovery - it’s great that you are trying to find out what went wrong, but don’t forget to do something nice for yourself as well.
Thank You
Submitted by ccarpenter on
Thank you for your detailed response. I am all too familiar with the constant "thrill seeking" personality and quite honestly it is what attracts me to him along with all the weird and funny quarks he has. It has made me love him for who he is. This is what makes it so challenging and painful. So what do I do? How do I get him to want to communicate? Is this even possible? I am aware it takes two people, and am afraid I am going it alone right now.
He was previously on adderal 10 years ago and didn't like the way it made him feel. He hasn't been on anything or done anything since. He was responsive to treatment but lacked the follow through to do anything about it. I felt like it was not a priority.
All in all, I feel like all of this is up to his own discretion.
Hi again ...
Submitted by FranticZen on
Hi again ...
If most ADHD'ers are like me, "serious" conversations are difficult to have.
I tend to:
So how does the "perfect difficult discussion" look from my perspective?
If your husband is anything like me, this might work.
I guess one of the reasons for me to want to help you and your husband is that I am currently moving out from me and my GF's shared house to live on my own after 10+ years. She found my symptoms too difficult to live with and I feel that part of the problem is that she does not understand (or believe) how hard it is to fight against the ADHD-nature.
I really don't want to see anybody else make the same mistakes that I did. I wish you could show this to your husband ... the fact that he and I share this diagnosis - and soon history, if he does nothing - may convince him that you are not his enemy.
It's funny, actually. I think my girlfriend would be dumbfounded if she saw me pouring out constructive advice like this - but I guess it is much easier for me to give advice to others than to take my own medicine.
/Thomas
This is the exact same
Submitted by ccarpenter on
Everything you talk about is the exact same. Anywhere from the defensiveness, to zoning out, to hooking onto one specific word or series of words. You are writing about him.
He has a number of times, not made eye contact or be on his phone while we were trying to talk about things. This started to erode at the communication, especially when he went into immediate defensive mode. I felt less and less like a priority and began to lash out because of feeling hurt and feeling unheard, and ultimately not trusting him. We had talked about seeking therapy. He had talked about going on medication, and doing therapy but he never put it into action. This is what put me in a downward spiral of fear and anxiety, not knowing what to do. On top of all this, I was and still am dealing with the loss of an estranged parent. My father was never in my life, but he has recently passed within the last couple of months, and It took a serious emotional toll on me throughout the holidays.
Here are some of the things I have done since we have been separated:
He hasn't spoken to me at all in person or by phone in over 5 weeks. There have been the occasional text messages, but it hasn't been anything constructive. It has been more so cold and distant and alluding to the fact that I need to leave him alone. During this time is when I found he was on a dating site. A lot of people will tell me that I am a fool for wanting him back after all of this. But you can't change the deep amount of love you have for someone and the willingness to give it your all to make something work because it is worth it, and you see what it could be if it were possible.
I never got closure from any of this. He just became extremely emotional and angry and took his things to stay with his parents. He said things need to change, but they can't when we don't talk. I am at a loss on how to communicate. Especially when I am getting absolutely nothing from him. There is no communication.
I have confided in friends, family, my therapist, and even emailed Melissa Orlov about this, and the one factor is: "you cannot force or change this. He has to be willing to do that himself." This to me is like taking a knife to an open wound, because he isn't. I realize I cannot change him, yet I hold onto the possibility that if only there is something I could say or do that would make him turn around and see the efforts and lengths I am willing to go. I feel like I have lost part of myself and my dignity trying to turn this around when I am getting nothing in return.
I am sorry to hear that you are now going to live on your own after being together for 10 years. I can tell you that I was your girlfriend at one point- frustrated, angry, and not understanding of ADHD. Now, more than ever I have a better understanding, and I want to give it my best shot. It's hard doing that though, when I am not getting anything back. If you were him right now in this situation, and your girlfriend wanted to do everything possible to understand, and work at all the highs and lows, and tough times together, what would you do? Is it possible to change your mind after you seemingly made it up?
Thank you for all of your insight.
Kind Regards.
Hi CC
Submitted by FranticZen on
Hi CC
Sorry for the delay ... busy at work + preparing to move.
I agree that you can not force him. Nothing good will come of that - you may even risk driving him further away.
I find his behaviour a bit odd but I can think of three reasons for this:
You seem like a very dedicated spouse and your eagerness to understand your husband (and ADHD) is unique and admirable.
If it does not work out for you and your husband, you will still have learned a lot about ADHD - and given that the charming side of ADHD seems to appeal to you, this can be of great help for you in the future ;-)
Hugs
Thomas
This is kind of rare FZ, but it is much appreciated...
Submitted by c ur self on
After almost 10 years w/ my add wife....It would have been helpful if she and I could have had discussions about both of our realities w/ out the anxiety and arguments robbing us....LOL....You are so dead on (why wouldn't you be, you live it) with your description of how your mind (fast mind) works, and how it makes you feel to have this open dialog about your adhd, and your life style....
I've found out if we both can just humble ourselves and not allow pride to take over....Then we can communicate constructively in short time allotments...But, I have to recognize when I've lost her, and have enough discipline to walk away...This has been extremely difficult for me, and too many details just enhances her frustrations and then "There she blows!!!"....It's not funny, but, to endure it, you better be able to walk away and make light of it...Setting a timer isn't a terribly bad idea, my wife loves that concept when I want to talk about a serious subject:).....
Taking another person's behaviors to seriously can cause us to over focus on the problem, then we end up losing our selves.....I need to accept her reality and just move on w/ my own life....Love usually finds a way....
Thanks again....Your posts are understood and appreciated by most of us I would presume...Adhders and Nons.....
C
Thanks, Frantic Zen
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I wanted to just say thank you for your thoughtful suggestions about what would help smooth out difficult conversations for you. Very helpful!
For Purple Squirrel - blinding anger
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Hi -
Your partner's rages may well be physiological in origin. One of the core characteristics of ADHD is 'emotional lability' - that is emotionally responding more quickly and more extremely than one might expect, even to everyday, common stimulus. What makes me think of this as likely to be physiological is the change you note once your partner went off the meds. And your comment about what a great guy he is most of the time.
My own marital story had some similar themes, and it turns out that in my husband's case, medications made the difference between our being able to stay together and find happiness and not. He takes Wellbutrin, which makes his impulsive anger go away. Literally. This is not the case for everyone, but it's worth exploring. CBT can also help, as can mindfulness training, particularly as someone looks to create a 'pause' between input and output (rage). But do explore the medication angle. For many, anti-depressants work for this. For some, stimulants work (as they calm the mind.) Watch, no matter what medication is tried, for emotional side effects. Some stimulants, for example, have a side effect (for some people - not all) of creating greater irritability - obviously not what you seek!
In answer to your question, does this mean your relationship is doomed? No. Often, it can be managed. If he isn't able to find a way to manage the anger, then the lack of stability that this causes for you may well mean that you can't stay together. So, hopefully he will be able to be as successful in his efforts as my husband was in his.
As a separate note - I'm putting together a course on managing anger in your relationship and will be offering it for the first time some time in March. Keep an eye out as it sounds as if it could be very helpful for you.
Thank you for your response.
Submitted by purplesquirrel on
Thank you for your response. I am sure that you are correct about his physiological response to anger. I can see him bubbling up very quickly and his main purpose when he shouts at me is to stop me from being upset (which of course had the opposite effect). He is very lovely otherwise. I trained just before we met as a primary teacher and this might sound crazy but I’m sure this has made a difference. I’m very firm with my boundaries. He listens when I talk and has become a lot more caring. I have made a time out card ( and laminated it!) that clearly states the time out rules. He is incredibly sporty and wants to try meditation.
He is currently on an NHS waiting list to go back on the medication. Unfortunately, it’s taking a very long time.
Remember to make a "Time Out"
Submitted by FranticZen on
Remember to make a "Time Out"-card for him as well. I find myself becoming quite frustrated if I have to stop what I am doing to answer some trivial question. Just raising my "timeout card" instead of having to get involved in a conversation keeps me from getting annoyed and going from 0-60.
Anger management
Submitted by Goldilox73 on
Melissa, yes please keep us posted about managing anger in relationships! I would be very interested as well. Every time I read your posts, I feel like you are the only person on Earth who gets what it’s like living with someone who has erratic outbursts (often incongruent with the actual situation). He keeps saying “I’m never allowed to be angry!” And I keep saying, “No, it’s the way you express that anger that I’m not ok with.” So frustrating that after so many years, he just doesn’t hear me. Can ADHD coaching help with this??? He’s not keen on therapy. I feel like splitting all the time. Going to individual therapy myself just doesn’t seem to reduce my own anger, sadness, and hopelessness about him getting his primary symptoms under control.
tHerapy and anger
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Sadly, therapy for you isn't likely to change how he speaks with you, and while you can try to find the positives in the situation, no matter what you do it still is awful when someone is screaming at you. Or talking down to you, or... I don't know where you live, but I'm going to be giving an anger workshop in DC and Seattle in March - info is here. The anger course will be given live first (as a test) and then turned into a self-stiudy course. Watch the website - I will post it this weekend and space will be limited.