Everybody, I really, really need some help to make an important decision here. Please help me decide what to do because I'm at my wits' end.
I need to decide whether my husband is dangerous or not, so I can make the right decision about whether or not to let him be deported.
Some of you know from other posts that I've been with an ADDer for 10 years and married for 5. He came to the US from the Middle East almost 17 years ago when he was 21 to attend school but wound up dropping out and living here illegally. I noticed the red flags of his emotional volatility and anger problems early on and we were on-again-off-again for a few years as he "tried" (not really) to change, before I came to realize he probably had ADHD/depression/anxiety that he couldn't treat (given our financial situation and lack of medical insurance) unless we married to adjust his legal status. We had exhausted all other options so we took that chance in 2005, and ever since the government has been suspicious of our marriage and trying to deport him. We won our case in August 2007 (or so I thought) but just yesterday we got a letter from immigration that they want us to come in for an interview to see if our marriage is legitimate before issuing him his permanent (non-revokable) green card.
I already filed for divorce in January because I couldn't take it anymore and we haven't been really living together since February 2008 (shortly after he got his temporary green card). I've dealt with all the emotional/mental/verbal abuse, the lies, the infidelity, the sex/porn/pot addictions and he still goes back and forth over whether or not he actually has ADHD and needs to treat it. He isn't taking any concrete steps toward changing anything.
I'm trying to decide whether I should let him get deported. I can't tell anymore whether he's a good person or not. When he gets angry, he often gets manipulative and hurtful at best, abusive and threatening at worst. He will chase the cat, knock over furniture, yell like a banshee, swear, threaten to leave, talk about how he wants to die, he's twice threatened to kill himself (holding a knife to his stomach while doing so). He blames me, blames his parents, blames the Middle East and the education/culture he was exposed to there, blames Americans and the culture here. At least six times a year in the midst of a major meltdown he will get really creepy and start talking about committing terrorist acts, like blowing up buildings in the US or going to join Hamas and blow up Jews in Israel. He never says anything that makes it sound like he has a specific plan in mind but it scares the crap out of me when he talks like that.
After his meltdowns, he cries, apologizes, sometimes he says he doesn't know why he talks like that and is just blowing off steam, he doesn't really hate Jews or Americans and loves this country or else why would he stay here, he's met nice Jews in his time and there are plenty of messed up Arabs and Muslims too...
But over the ten years I've known him, here are the undeniable facts:
1) He often hates himself and can reach points of despair to where he doesn't see the point of living anymore (but he's never made an actual suicide attempt - the last time he threatened it, I told him to go ahead and do it and walked out the door, and he was so shocked that I'd called his bluff that he snapped out of his rage immediately).
2) He's having a major identity crisis and can hate the world (or various groups of people, in turn).
3) He is very impulsive and has a history of making terrible decisions without considering the long-term consequences (burning a lot of bridges).
4) He used to get into physical fights but I don't believe this has happened for about 10 years.
5) He has broken the law repeatedly and in the past he's had an utter disregard for the law (he's shoplifted, done and sold marijuana (still smokes it now but has claimed he'd like to quit without ever doing so successfully), gotten loads of parking/speeding tickets that he has never paid or come to court for, got himself arrested once for talking back to a cop) - but since getting his green card he has become very critical of people who break the law and claims he wants to live a good life.
6) That hasn't kept him from continuing to lie to me, or date multiple women at the same time, or try to con me into giving him money when he already has money of his own.
7) He still has a strong sense of entitlement and is very emotionally immature, and puts his needs above everybody else's at all costs (i.e. lying and concealing his sources of income, how he spends his time, the women he's seeing behind my back, the porn he watches)
8) He continues to get fired from every job he ever gets, never follows through on getting enrolled in classes to get the education he's been saying he wants for 10 years, and seems in all likelihood bound to keep on living on the edge of poverty/homelessness and will probably live off State assistance if he doesn't face his problems and get help.
9) I'm not sure just how deep his immorality goes - at times I think he just used and manipulated me to get a green card. Before we decided to marry, we promised each other that we would treat it as a trial period, like an engagement, to see if we could solve our problems - and we would divorce if it didn't work and he could go back to living his illegal lifestyle. He promised that he would go to counseling to solve his problems and improve our relationship, get on medication to treat his problems, and contribute equally to the financial/chore responsibilities of the household. But in the first six months of our marriage he was not forthcoming in counseling sessions and stormed out of several, never got on medication or even was willing to consistently admit he had a problem, never sought to educate himself to get better, and sat around playing video games/looking at porn while I spent all day going to grad school full time and working full time to support both of us financially for over two years when the government never issued him a temporary work permit. The least he could have done was be house-husband for me, but instead I'd come home late, exhausted, and have to make dinner, clean the house, run errands... But the icing on the cake is the fact that I discovered he'd been cheating on me for three years prior to marriage, and one week after we were married, he contacted that girlfriend (who had gotten fed up 6 months earlier and cut contact with him) and made up lies about how he'd gone to counseling to get better and was leaving for Egypt but wanted to say goodbye - so on the basis of this lie, he persuaded her to get together continually to have sex (she even took days off of work!!) for the first three weeks of our marriage. I only discovered this after he was arrested and put in an immigration detention center, and rather than let him get deported at that time, I told myself it was in the past and he still hadn't had a chance to get medicated etc so I didn't want to be spiteful and ruin his entire future just because our relationship was in serious trouble. Since that time, he has repeatedly hung over my head the fact that I'm his sponsor and that entitles him to get money from me now - of course if I'd just let him be deported, I'd be off the hook, but I wanted to give him this chance despite it all... and far from being grateful, he acts like he's going to exercise his legal right to drain me dry even though currently I have no income and he apparently does but has been keeping it a secret from me.
10) So, in short, he swings back and forth between a good guy and a total jacka$$. I used to tell him "the only thing consistently true about you is your inconsistency."
Just to make it fair, I have to tell you what he's like when he's not melting down - he's romantic, funny, affectionate, a great cook, a passionate environmentalist, wants to be a good Muslim but lacks the self-discipline, is very sociable and fun-loving and everybody thinks he's great because he's intensely charismatic, persuasive and charming (not to mention handsome). It seemed like we shared the same values (particularly in personal development) and approached life with the same joie de vivre, curiosity and naivete that contributed to the connection between us (but now I see how huge a gap there is between the values he professes and the way he lives, based on elaborate lies, B.S.-ing and deception).
So yesterday the immigration officers send the letter, wanting to know if the marriage is legit. Yes, it was legit for me, and I entered it in good faith but I can't say the same for a man who'd make up lies to persuade the ex-girlfriend he'd been cheating on me with for three years to get together and have a three-week carnal extravaganza a week after our marriage. Of course I'm pissed off at him and so happy I'm divorcing him. I don't trust that he will keep the promises he makes in his "good moments" when he says he won't ask me to pay anything as his sponsor because he acknowledges that he already owes me money for what I spent supporting him (per our pre-marriage verbal agreement). He was able to survive and support himself for 7 years prior to meeting me when he was living illegally and now he has a green card so there's no rational reason to justify him getting money from me as his sponsor but I'm afraid he will try anyway out of spite, which is what he's threatened to do when angry (as well as declaring his refusal to reimburse me for any of the student loans I've taken out to support him). The judge may be the one to decide all this in the end... if Immigration even lets him stay here.
I know he has a serious problem and I believed he could get himself treated here and turn his life around but he goes back and forth on whether he's even willing to admit he has a problem now. I'm afraid he will live in poverty or off State assistance at best. But at worst, I'm really concerned that one day he will become so despondent and hopeless that he will act on his suicide threats, and possibly take other people down with him. Maybe he really will blow something up! But I would hate to have him sent home and lose the opportunity for treatment and a better future (There's no future for him in his home country, other than possibly joining some militant group over there! Same problem!) just on the basis of empty threats said in an ADHD rage!
Please weigh in everyone. I'm really at a loss. I have wanted to believe in his better nature but I don't want to be blind to facts either. What are your experiences with threats ever actually being acted upon, translating into real violence? Are people with ADHD generally just going to stay in the verbally explosive stage without crossing into physical violence? What about suicide threats and attempts? Can anyone help me figure out how dangerous he actually is - to himself or others - whether in terms of violence or his threat to bilk me financially??
So tired, so tired, so tired of it all. I don't want this weight of someone else's future on my shoulders anymore.
deportation
Submitted by Steph on
I only made it about a 1/4 of the way through your post, but what I need to ask you is this: Why would you want to help this guy? Seriously, take it as a gift and be done with him. He sounds like he has more serious problems than just ADD.
are some consequences of ADHD too severe and unjust?
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
If ADHD is the reason for his problems, he's been suffering the consequences of the untreated disorder all his life and he's just blowing off steam when he's angry like many of the ADHD-ers those of us on this board know, then it seems wrong to let him be deported and lose every possibility of having a good quality of life. I think he's a guy trying to deal (poorly) with extreme circumstances while having less than the optimal resources available to him. I don't believe in punishing him for his condition or his difficult circumstances, but I will distance myself from him if he's not ready to commit to seeking appropriate help.
This is about this guy's entire future, and I don't want to misjudge him, which is why I'm asking people for their experiences with violence and ADHD - to get information that will help me make the right choice.
The truth?
Submitted by ccompton on
There is a reason for the term - illegal immigrant. It is illegal.
ADHD is why he became illegal
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
He came to the US legally on a scholarship, so he's not an illegal immigrant. He dropped out of school when he missed a detail in the scholarship contract and failed to register per the rules as a result (very ADHD isn't it?)
Lots of people with green cards or citizenship went through periods when they were out of legal status so the situation is not that simple.
All of us here know and understand about ADHD so I had hoped for a little more understanding from this community, as well as some relevant advice about anger translating to violence but I still haven't seen that yet. I'd love to hear more about people's experiences with what's said in bursts of ADHD anger ever translating to action, including suicide threats becoming attempts and so on.
And yes I am cutting him loose - we're divorcing - that's not up for debate, just whether he should be free to stay in the US to pursue treatment and a better life or whether he should be deported.
I am sorry. I wasn't trying
Submitted by ccompton on
I am sorry. I wasn't trying to be insensitive. Do you think that your husband will seek out help if he stays in this country? He has already had 10 years to do so and hasn't. I do believe that you married him with the right intentions, but I don't think he did from what you say. You certainly cannot blame ADHD for ALL of those behaviors, some of them are just because he is an insensitive jerk. My husband can be that way too at time. His anger has escalated into violence (punched a windshield in once, really stupid reason).
And I do understand the green card status stuff. My niece's boyfriend is from Africa. They didn't get married because they weren't ready. His student visa ran out and now he is back in Africa.
Unsure he will ever seek treatment
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
Your question is exactly what I've been asking myself for years. I don't see him as having really had the opportunity to get treated - for eight of those 10 years he didn't have a green card so he wasn't able to hold a regular job with health insurance and paying out of pocket for counseling and meds would have cost too much for either of us. There were times when he would start to read one of the ADHD books or resources I brought to his attention but then his mind would wander and he'd only get a chapter or two in before abandoning it, so self-educating hasn't happened.
I"ve seen a lot of people on this board talk about ADDers who start and then abandon treatment too, so even if he started he might not stick with it...
In my heart I don't believe he will get treatment right now. Maybe after the divorce is final and he hits rock bottom, he will experience that wakeup call.
I would be happy to let him deal with that on his own, so long as he doesn't have any legal recourse to force me to enable him (i.e. give him financial support for the next five years through the sponsorship agreement) and if I could be sure he wouldn't flip out and try to get revenge in some way.
Fortunately, I'll be leaving the state soon and won't leave him a forwarding address! Too bad my name is uncommon. I worry he might try to find me by googling me or something.
Cut him lose while you can
Submitted by ariel on
My situation is somewhat similar though not so extreme. Me and my STBXH are both foreigners, grad students. Due to his disorder my husband did not graduate, dropped out of school and out of status. I could file for dependent visa for him. But I was so fed up that I did not. We are separated for couple of months now and he is back to his homecountry. I HAVE NEVER FELT BETTER in the last five years I have known him. I do not regret our separation and I will NEVER go back to him. Be good to yourself, let him go. Give yourself a chance for a normal life and happiness.
Making the best decision for him
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
Thanks for your perspective Ariel. Part of my concern is the country he's from - over there, they don't know about ADHD and he won't have any way to get it treated, not to mention no jobs or possibility to complete the education he says he wants to pursue. He'll just be considered crazy and it will continue to wreck his self-esteem and possibly push him to suicide. With your ex, did he have any prospects to return home to? Did that have an influence on your decision at all, knowing what was waiting for him when he got home?
Well, the country my husband
Submitted by ariel on
Well, the country my husband is from does not recognize ADHD much and I doubt that he will get the treatment. But, honestly, I am at the point when I do not care.
You need to think about yourself too, not only about him. There is a thing I wonder about, given all the crazy things he did. Do you feel safe? Are you sure he will not stalk you or do some harm? Are you sure he will leave you alone after divorce? I feel much safer now when my husband is at another continent. Plus, he may be right about you having to support him financially. Especially after he gets an unconditional green card (though I don't know the laws). I would seriously think about it before sponsoring him for a green card and may be even consult with a lawyer.
I probably sound harsh but I think you need to put yourself first and do what is best for you.
I don't really feel safe
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
Thanks Ariel. I don't really feel safe, because his angry outbursts, unpredictability and profound dishonesty have wrecked the trust between us, but that doesn't mean he's going to get violent - which is why I'm posting this question. He's vindictive and holds grudges for a long time but he's very passive-aggressive rather than aggressive (physically at least - he's very verbally aggressive!).
I am worried about stalking because he has always tried to reach out to me, often in inappropriate ways, and doesn't respect boundaries. He's never tried to stalk me before but he's done things like try to find out where I'm living by calling the number of the house he suspects I'm at to see if I'll pick up when he knows I don't want to talk to him.
In my opinion, the fact that
Submitted by Jeannie on
In my opinion, the fact that you are concerned for your safety throws up a red flag. I don't think anyone can predict whether someone will cross that line and actually harm someone. But when someone is experiencing extreme emotional states whether that is extreme agitation or extreme depression, especially if they are talking about homicide or suicide, then the risk of violence goes up substantially and you should take it seriously.
My ADHD husband was passive aggressive and verbally aggressive. He exhibited physical aggression early in our relationship but fought hard to keep that under control. He also had evidence of other mental disorders including porn/sex addiction, alcohol addiction, and sociopathic behaviors. (Read the Sociopath Next Door.) Perhaps your husband goes beyond ADHD, too. I found substantial evidence that my husband probably was planning on committing violence (homicide/suicide) in a very passive way. I also feared that he would kill me in my sleep. My fear was brought on by his extemely unstable behavior very similar to what you describe your husband's and his access to means to do me great harm. I did get out of the house safely, and he has done no physical harm that I am aware of to anyone. He does, however, continue to be very unstable and exhibit shocking and insensitive behaviors towards people. This behavior shows great hostility and anger with no empathy towards other human beings. I am still fearful of him and make sure that I am protected where I am now. I know others who know him and are also fearful of him.
If you're divorcing, can your marriage still be considered legit
Submitted by Aspen on
in the eyes of the law? That might be a consideration for you to decide what you are willing to do. If they are asking if the marriage was originally legit, you can of course say that it was originally on your part, but I doubt you could make a good argument for it being so on his part considering his rampant immorality and lies from the get go. If they are asking if you have a legitimate marriage NOW then it seems like the answer is an obvious no.
I applaud you wanting him to have a good quality of life and better treatment than is offered in his country for ADHD. I have a relative who moved here from India with his family because India (at the time) did not have the facilities that his very very ADHD and learning disabled son needed. However, they did come and remain here legally. I know legality/illegality is a hot button issue for a lot of people & I don't want to get into all that, but I can say I don't relish the idea of using my money to pay for the needs of this man who appears to me to be rejecting every opportunity that he has been offered regardless of where he is living.
As far as explosive anger, I do think there is a difference between ADD and ADHD, but my husband, who does not show the signs of hyperactivity, demonstrates very little anger (though he has a tendency to simmer about things) and has never had any type of explosion the likes of which you describe in his life. As far as I'm aware neither has his severely ADHD and learning disabled cousin who moved here to get help. The anger is not ADHD...that could cause him to feel lots of frustration and to find his impulses difficult to control...but it is not a get out of jail free card. He is still responsible to his actions and decisions especially if he is aware that a disorder could be at work. He needs to own his anger and the consequences of it before he can ever hope to control it.
He also didn't lose his student visa "because of ADHD". The situation was certainly compounded by ADHD, but every year millions of ADHD people manage to read their contracts and fulfill the requirements of their visas and scholarships. I understand that you feel for this man and are afraid that his life will be worse if he is sent back to his country. The questions I'd have you ask yourself is how much better is his life here? Cause I have a hard time imagining worse. And also whether it is even your call or not. Laws are set up for a reason and he is either complying or not complying with the laws of the country he lives within. You are cutting him out of your life regardless....surely you can't blame anyone else for not wanting this man who appears to be a completely non contributing member of society to mooch off them either.
There is certainly the possiblity that deportation will be the straw that broke the camels back and he will sink into depression and get worse, but there is also the possibility that being deported could be the wake up call he's been needed to get his life in order. With the internet and books available everywhere, he will not be completely cut off from help if he ever decides he wants it. There is even online and phone coaching options if he ever determines he wants to do something about his problems. He sounds like he is all excuses to me and like he has used you for years. I am sorry you are going through this at all :(
ENDING TO THE STORY
Submitted by Almost Over Now on
It's been nearly a year since I started posting on this board looking for the advice that would help me feel right about the decision to divorce.
Since I realize there has been confusion for some about how much is ADD and how much is just "abusive jerk" or possibly, in my case, cultural issues (based on prejudices about men from the Middle East), I wanted to let you all know how the story has ended.
He and I got divorced, but only after his green card was approved. I concluded (after much very difficult reflection) that he WAS "bluffing" and it was a combined consequence of emotional illness (most likely from ADHD fallout) and the impulsive ADD behavior itself: bad ADD behavior taken to the extreme. He was extremely emotional about the divorce and impulsively saying what was on his mind, but that didn't mean he was actually dangerous.
And fortunately, my judgment was correct.
He became very cooperative once he saw I meant to go through with the divorce. He was very, very angry before, but I think with the divorce it really finally hit home how destructive that anger and his other behaviors had been. Anger plus ADD is a very unfortunate mix, and no doubt makes the ADDer just as unhappy inside as it does the people around them who bear the brunt of it.
In the run-up to the divorce, he made major changes to win me back. He quit the marijuana, he even quit cigarettes cold turkey, he started exercising, praying daily, taking care of himself. He got his permanent green card and has become a major advocate against illegal immigration and drugs (!) and embraces American values and the prospect of citizenship. He got a job and is learning how to let things roll off his back so he doesn't lose this one. He is trying very hard to be self-disciplined and emotionally mature and has done nothing but treat me with respect. But because he'd made superficial changes in the past only to revert to bad behavior afterward, because he still hasn't treated the ADD, and because the whole experience has been so hard on me and I need to take care of me now, I still decided to finalize our divorce in June.
For a time after the divorce, we cautiously maintained a friendship, but then he lied to me about something important in his past (admittedly because he was afraid of my reaction and losing my friendship), demonstrating how even with external changes, the self-esteem and character changes take more time. (He profoundly regretted lying to me afterward.)
He has decided on his own to pursue treatment for ADHD. He also accepts that he needs a lot of counseling to deal with his emotional issues and is eager to get started. He can't afford these treatments on his own so he sought out a clinic that is doing ADHD studies and offering meds and counseling for free and he will start with the next cohort in December. He still says he loves me and wants to win me back. I encouraged him to consider dating someone else, because both of us deserve a fresh start and a love story tainted by all this grief. I still love him but I'm happy we divorced and I'm enjoying refocusing on myself now. Since I'm not the type who needs to impose black and white on a grey world, if the ADD treatment happens and sufficient time has passed to prove it's working, maybe we will find a way to work through the fallout of the earlier years, strengthen our relationship skills, and build something out of our love again. I'm not holding on to that hope, though, and right now I'm very happy just focusing on my own life.
He's a good person and deserves this opportunity for a better life. I'm glad he'll have it now, and that potentially if he puts in the hard work to overcome his ADHD behaviors, I can still have this person in my life who has meant so much to me. ADHD is a very difficult condition to have to live with - for both people - and I'm glad even if our marriage ended that we are both coming out of it better people.
Thanks for posting that
Submitted by Sueann on
We often wonder what happened to people who post on this site. People post here when they are in crisis, and when the crisis is over (one way or the other) they stop and we never know if it's because they fixed their problem and are now blissfully happy, or because the non-ADHD partner finally gave up.
I'm sorry your story didn't have a more conventionally happy ending. Sometimes they don't. But thanks for telling us he's at least thinking about getting help.