I get told often that I am too demanding about making plans. I want plans made and he wants to wing it....
.I get told that either I haven't given him enough time to think about whatever I want to talk about or that he feels trapped because he's going to lose and not get his way. Or any number of things
Last night I sat down and told him that it would be nice if we could talk about our plans for the next two years. We are getting to the time in our lives where retirement is on the horizon.
I said that it would be nice to have this conversation in May. He could choose the time and date of our chat and frame it however he wanted. Or he could choose not to talk about it at all, it was his choice. I don't know how I could have left it any more open than that. I intend not to mention it again so he can't accuse me of nagging. So tell me how I could have framed this better and what pitfalls havel I left open to myself? (I know the pitfall of him saying "he forgot" is there)
It just always feels like for any conversation, he is trying to wiggle out of ...... what? I don't even know.
The denial gene is great in him and his family. So I'm constantly fighting uphill with that. Also, for YEARS his go to place is that he is making improvement because he is eating better and getting more exercise. This generally isn't true except for those 3 months he had to focus or have heart surgery, but he has gone back to his old habits. I rarely see any effort except for him trying to excercise more and eat better.
Seriously, I don't know how to even have a conversation with him anymore. I quit talking to him at all after he told me how lousy my family is with figuring out money problems and such and his family is so much better (the opposite is true) Except for answering questions, Ive not spoken to him for a month. He finally asked me what was wrong and I told him my feelings were hurt. He snorted and walked away. I think he has enjoyed having no conversation because he has no responsibility either. He comes home, makes his dinner and watches TV. On the weekends he works in the yard a little bit....something he likes to do This is his life.
Anyway..... how could I have better asked the question about having a conversation about planning our lives for the next 2 years
Thanks
Hi barneyarff....
Submitted by c ur self on
If you request a conversation from a spouse who likes to ignore the need to plan or discuss important issues....You might not of wanted to put in that last tid bit....(or not talk about it at all, his choice)....If you feel it's needed bad enough to request it...I personally would of made him ignore my request vs giving him an out to not take part in the discussion....Just my thought.....
LOL...My wife calls me the planner...She likes to tell me she's is spontaneous!
So what does that mean exactly? Well it means this....First of all, most all people can be spontaneous at times...But real spontaneity isn't something that causes conflict between the person with the spontaneous thought or idea, and the person or group they are with.....
Beware of a person who cloaks Control & Manipulation with the term spontaneity....If any one claims to have a spontaneous idea or thought, that would create an immediate diversion from an agreed upon plan, activity, route etc...That is fine, that's a spontaneous thought....But, BIG BUT ;)....If the person or group who is with this person who is putting forth their spontaneous thought, says, no thank you to what ever the person is seeking to sell, and the person selling it at that point shows negative emotion or seeks to force it, pout or not play anymore.....That wasn't Spontaneity, that was just a selfish minded person seeking to control or manipulate others....(Have their way at any cost)....
I've probably mentioned the
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I've probably mentioned the following incident on this forum before, but it seems so appropriate again.
I used to see a therapist occasionally (she's now retired). She is extremely perceptive and brilliant. I could count on one hand the times she was wrong about something. One of those times was the following: she suggested that I ask my then-husband what he wanted in life, i.e., what his goals were. This was a perfectly reasonable suggestion generally, but she did not realize the depths of my ex's resistance to thinking about the future. As she was saying this, I thought, but didn't say to her right then, that my husband would find it nearly impossible to have this conversation with me. But I decided to try it anyway. I was right. I could see him tensing up when I asked him. It caused him so much stress to even contemplate the question. He really hates thinking about the future; it frightens him to do so.
My husband is the same. I
Submitted by Libby on
My husband is the same. I have never thought it was frightening for him to think about the future. I always thought he just wants to keep all his options open. Doesn't want to be tied down by a plan.
So my husband asked if we
Submitted by barneyarff on
So my husband asked if we could talk Thursday night. I agreed. I asked him what time. His reply? WHY do I have to do EVERYTHING??!!! In his most whiny voice. It's going to be a train wreck an it will be my fault because that's how it goes and I can't figure out a way to not get cornered into being the bitch. I"m going to try to just say "I'm interested in knowing your plans for the next 2 years. That's all" No doubt he will whine and blame and try to make me tell him my plans first ("WHY do I have to go first??!!??) so he can copy and then blame me if it doesn't work or if he is unhappy. I hate my life. I hate it.
.
And I'm going to be verbally beat up tomorrow.
What would happen if you
Submitted by Libby on
What would happen if you suggested he write you a note with his thoughts on future plans? Would that be less threatening?
And the being cornered into
Submitted by Libby on
And the being cornered into being an bitch is an awful way to live. Been there done that.
Hi barneyarff...You can't talk about a plan u don't have....
Submitted by c ur self on
The dynamic you are describing is somewhat familiar (by the way, I hope it went well) The attitude that wants to control is there for a reason...And when a person deflects there is also a reason for this...(that on the edge defensive posturing will always be there with an individual looking just to make sure they blame you, and exonerate themselves above all else...About the only time they are calm and let that guard down is if you are puking up things that you recognize about yourself, that you are going to work to change....They will readily pile on and help you out with that....But they will have an emergency, or get bored w/ the talk, or need a time out....Just anything to stop the conversation when you are waiting for them to address there behaviors....
I've come to realize for me to ask her to talk about what she is in denial of, or what she doesn't have in the first place, is very foolish on my part....All we have to do is watch them... Watch what they are making priorities, their thinking patterns, which expose themselves as behaviors...It's human nature....
I've posted recently how most of us would just love for our spouses to be able to calmly look us in the eyes and address us in a mature way about their feelings....And the many other things like what you are saying here...Thoughts about the future, maybe finances, Jobs. etc...etc...But, mine is completely incapable of that, for the most part that is....
How do I know?? Ten years, and many many failed attempts....10 years of.,..You go first....10 years of her repeating what I say...10 years of on the edge defensiveness, just looking for anything to distract from having a mature conversation about the true reality of our marriage dynamic or any other thing that is reveling....It's like her butt is on fire when the mood needs to turn serious (commitments, accountability)....
So what can she talk about in a relaxed manner??....Her wants;) going to see the grand canyon....Going to Alaska....Going hiking....Traveling to visit adult children or her sisters....Her recorded TV programs....What can she talk about that is just one step up in emotion from that....Her co-workers that ain't cutting it....Something she wants to point out to me that she has done well....And if she happens to attempt to do a little cleaning, she will most always want to tell me things I don't do as well as her;)....Competitive to the core....(She strokes her own self esteem that way)....
So what does that tell me about real life conversation attempts??....Especially those where we need to identify our own misgivings and work to make corrections (take ownership)?? I'm asking you??
Doesn't it tell me to attempt it knowing it is impossible; makes me the biggest fool?? LOL....Yep...Some of you might be saying things like, well you will never have a real marriage if you can't communicate sensitive things ( real life stuff)....So what!... LOL....You can't get blood out of a turnip....Also who is in denial when we keep asking for what isn't there??
What happens to c ur self after those failed attempts....anxiety!....I hate my life periods.....Not any more I hope...LOL...I've got a great life in everyway, one to be so thankful for, whether she is able to receive God's intended blessing of being my wife or not....It's up to her, not me....And the more I live with this peace, the more she comes along side me...baby steps of engagement & vulnerability....
I've worked real hard to understand my Wife and the mind she lives in....I accepted it....Just getting to this place in my own mind is such a blessing...If we Set expectations on someone who's mind could never function on the level of organization it would take to fulfill our expectation...It is usually hurtful to both parties...But can be a life sentence for the one's of us who spend our whole life waiting for something that doesn't exist....
Getting better means acceptance of reality when it comes to the limits of a mind....Getting better when it comes to foolish thinking means seeking understanding & wisdom....Getting better when it comes to Sin, means a repentant heart...(to turn from).....
c
Wait......what???
Submitted by phatmama on
Plan? What plan? I'm supposed to have a life plan for TWO YEARS FROM NOW? Oh no, I'm in deep s**t now!!!! I have no idea what on earth she wants from me. HEEEEEEEEELP!!!!
Barneyarff, I think you need to make the plan and just do what you want. He might be vastly relieved to be able to just forget about this, since planning is a huge stressor for ADD'ers anyway. It isn't easy, but on the up side, you get to be the boss. Just factor him out as much as possible and pour yourself a bubble bath and grab a big silky bar of Toblerone and revel in letting this go. If he has a huge objection AND can collaborate in an adult manner about an alternative to your idea, then by all means, enjoy the moment and have that conversation. Otherwise--see above......
I agree, this is the best way to approach planning
Submitted by jennalemone on
I agree, phatmama, after years of trying to be a diplomatic leader/enhancer...expecting who agree to be part of any group to contribute and share in plans and work and applause, I have come to realize that this group of 2 cannot be a democracy butI don't have a model on how to be loving, yet the monarch. What you describe IS the only way to live with someone who does not cooperate. I guess there are prisons where people go who do not cooperate with expected democratic rules. Maybe what I could call it is a "half-way" house. His privaleges are revoked unless he can agree to some plans/rules. Some people are more comfortable in a prison than they are if they are expected to be free to plan and find the motivation to work and contribute and be part of society. For me, I am trying to find a way to ACCEPT a relationship that has my mind in chaos by my own expectations that we should be a democracy - a marriage with a 2-way governing/planning committee. I cannot count on any agreement. He has said many times that his "way" is to "fly by the seat of his pants"....works for someone single but not for someone who expects the benefits of a wife and family.
If I had a nickel for every
Submitted by Libby on
If I had a nickel for every ime I have heard the words "well things change". My husband rarely sticks with any plan we have agreed on. This is especially difficult because we are not just marriage partners but business partners too. He would never get away with treating any other business partner the way he treats me. I am also trying to find a way to accept the chaos.
Planning
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
My husband and I agreed a few years ago that we would semi retire after both of our kids graduate from high school. We “planned” to spend time together in a city that we both love with a view of the mountains. Now we’re two years away from that goal and every time I bring it up he clams up and refuses to respond. I’ve accepted that he’ll never quit working and he’ll never spend a significant amount of time with me in the mountains. I, however, haven’t changed the plans for myself. I still plan to make a beeline for mountains as soon as our second child leaves for college. I’ve just accepted that I’ll be alone.
It makes me sad, though. Aren’t couples supposed to look forward to retirement together? Aren’t we supposed to talk about the places we’ll go and the things we’ll do together? It’s so unnatural for me to envision my retirement alone. I think that’s when our relationship will slowly fade away.
My DH is not capable of in
Submitted by dvance on
My DH is not capable of in depth, lengthy conversations either. I have posted other places that I have no idea WHEN to have these conversations: mornings? Heck no--we're trying to get out the door to work (no one has big convos at 6am--I know that). At the end of the day? Nope--too tired. On the weekend? Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good weekend?? The answer I get for most questions about anything of substance is I don't know or I haven't thought about it. At the advice of our former marriage counselor, I used to give him several days notice-like on a Wednesday I would say on Saturday can we discuss X. And then on Saturday he would say he hadn't had a chance to think about it or he had forgotten. I do think it's about control and denial, both, and the complete avoidance of anything serious and adult. I don't have a solution. It's a bizarre thing to live with. My DH also only gives me pieces of information to answer questions--it usually takes me about 5 questions to get the whole story or all of the information I wanted from one question. It's crazy making. I wish I had more to offer except sympathy. Generally I make decisions on my own. I realize there are some things that have to get discussed between a husband and wife-finances, where to live, retirement issues, health stuff--some things there are just no way around. In those cases, it's just painful and we generally come off poorly. We are the ones that have to insist on adult behavior, adult decisions, and most of the time we are the ones making the final call on those things. I wish I had more hopeful things to say. One hopeful thing is that we find inner resources and strength we didn't know we had. Hell, the ability to put one foot in front of the other most days takes strength. We do that every day even when we feel lonely and defeated and ignored and invisible.