How Do I Make a Request Without it Sounding Like a Criticism?

negotiating or nitpicking?

Submitted by arwen on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 04:13

Hoping4more, I haven't read a lot of your other posts, but I assume that your spouse has ADHD and you do not, from the nature of this post.

I too, am a non-ADHD spouse -- married to an ADHD man. For many many years I could not understand why my husband could not manage to do "simple" things that would make my life easier. It wasn't until I started to understand the brain physiology of ADHD that I began to see that what seemed like "simple" things and "small" favors to me were actually not small or simple at all for him, because of the way ADHD affects memory.

Think of memory as a can, and when we need to store something in memory, a disc goes into the can. When you or I start to feel that the "can" is getting full, we start writing things down, or take some other action to make sure that the memories are not lost. Maybe we take some of the "discs" out because they really aren't needed anymore. We are able to *manage* our memory.

This is very much more difficult for people with ADHD because the neurotransmitter abnormalities in the brain make it difficult for them to store, organize and retrieve memories. They may not be aware that the "can" is getting full. They may have trouble removing only certain memories without losing others. In my husband's case, there is also a limit to his memory. In the winter, when he is also suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder, his "can" only holds about four "discs". In summer, it's maybe more like ten. And although I joke about it, it's quite true that his memory "can" has no bottom -- so if his "can" is full, and he adds another "disc", whatever's at the bottom falls out and disappears into La-La Land.

Now, what this translates to in practical terms in my marriage is that I have to be very discriminating about what ten things (or four, in winter) that I want to ask him to be able to remember. I am sure as shooting not going to waste one of those "discs" on asking him to remember to turn his clothes inside out when it only takes me 5 minutes to deal with it a couple of times a week. I don't know about you, but I have bigger fish to fry. I much more need him to remember to lock the door to the house when he leaves, or to keep the garage door closed so we don't get mice and raccoons and snakes taking up residence in the garage as we used to when he didn't remember.

Beyond these considerations, I have to say personally that I can't really see the necessity for you to turn the clothes outside right when you hang them up or fold them. I've washed and folded and hung up plenty of clothes inside out, and it's never done them any harm. So I'm having trouble understanding why this is even an issue. To me, this really is nitpicky, I'm afraid.

Now -- all that said -- if this really is a top priority for you, I would approach your wife something like this:

"Honey, I have a question about the laundry. I notice you always leave your clothes inside out, so I end up turning them outside right when I wash (or fold, or hang up, or whatever) your clothes. Is there any special reason you do that?" Don't ask this as if she would be a lunatic to say yes -- ask as if you really want to know one way or the other. If she answers yes, give her explanation respectful and objective consideration as to whether her special reason is as valid as your 5 minutes. If, as is more likely, she answers no, explain that turning them outside right takes you extra time that you'd like to find some way to avoid, and ask if she would be willing to turn them outside right herself when she puts them in the hamper, or whether it would be ok for you to fold/hang/whatever them inside out, or any other alternative that might occur to you. And ask her if *she* has any other alternatives to suggest.

You are absolutely right that in order to negotiate, each person has to identify what their interests are to the other party. But there are good ways and bad ways to do this. When you negotiate, you should not necessarily be looking for a specific solution -- you should be trying to identify the issues and consider various alternatives together. A negotiation should *not* be judgmental.

I would like to refer you to Wikipedia's article on the negotiation book "Getting to Yes" which can be found at these respective links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_YES and the book by the same author, "Getting Past No" (I don't recommend the Wikipedia article on "Getting Past No", the article uses catchphrases from the book that make no sense without the accompanying explanations in the book). Both the article and the books may be useful to you in finding more acceptable ways to approach your spouse.

Good luck!

Thanks

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 10:58

Wow, Awren - thanks. Your explanation makes perfect sense and your suggestion sounds like a good one. I appreciate your taking the time to write such a thorough response.

Here's What Happened

Submitted by Hoping4More on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:02

As I was doing the laundry the other day I asked my wife "Honey, you know how you take your clothes off inside-out? Is there a particular reason you do that?" Ans she said "no." I started to say "Is it important to you that they be turned right side out before they are put away?" but before I could finish my statement she cut me off and said something like "All right!" in a somewhat agitated tone of voice. So I asked "Why are you agitated?" to which she replied "I feel like I am being managed." To which I said something like "I'm not trying to manage you. I'm trying to talk to you about how you like your clothes. If you want them right side out then please turn them right side out when you take them off." (And at this point, I probably was sounding agitated myself.)

Later I said to her "Honey, I really was trying to ask you something about your clothes earlier. I have been having to turn all your clothes right side out every time I do the laundry. It would help me if YOU would turn your clothes right side out when you take them off so I don't have to.

So now my question is: If she leaves some (or all) of her clothes inside out should I remind her of what I said or just move on? If I leave her clothes inside out am I just being petty and mean?

For Hoping, sorry I missed this

Submitted by arwen on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 00:18

I just discovered your followup post last night and I'm sorry I didn't respond right away. I don't know if this response is too late or not, but even if this situation is long past the point where my thoughts would be useful regarding this particular issue, there might be some value in hearing my analysis, for the benefit of some other problem.

Your question is, should you remind her of what you said or move on -- and whether leaving her clothes inside out is just being petty and mean. My answers are, neither, and I don't know.

If I were in your shoes, I would *not* remind her of what you said -- she's already heard it, very likely doesn't want to hear it again. But then you are left with a problem -- you still have an unresolved issue. You could just move on, but unresolved issues have a way of coming back to bite you. If you're going to continue to feel resentment about it and can't get past the issue within your own mind, you probably need some different way to restart the dialogue, that doesn't sound like carping or nagging or something else negative. Your idea to leave her clothes inside out is a little crazy from one point of view, but sometimes doing something unexpected or outside the norm is a useful way to draw attention to an issue. It might be a way to reopen the discussion -- if you handle it with humor. I've done this kind of thing when my husband left his shoes in the middle of the stairs, causing me to trip and barely avoiding a serious injury -- I took his shoes and put them in a very unusual but safe place in plain sight. I didn't have to say anything -- he got the point right away and offered an apology. (Of course, your situation is a bit different -- no responsible person would argue that creating an unsafe situation didn't merit an apology -- but you and your wife are arguing over *how* something is done -- so you probably shouldn't expect an apology!)

I can't tell you whether leaving her clothes inside out would just be petty and mean. Only *you* know what your intentions actually are. If the way you are feeling about the situation is "OK, if she won't do what I want, I'll show her!" -- yeah, you probably are being petty and mean. If the way you are feeling is "I need to do something to get her attention on this issue" and you think she would perceive this as a more gentle approach, you probably aren't. If you are thinking that you are going to hang up the clothes whatever way she puts them in the wash, I don't see that as being petty or mean -- that's just a "natural consequence" that Melissa and I like to implement whenever possible. It all depends upon where you are coming from -- the act itself is not intrinsically petty or mean.

I hope you won't be offended if I speak plainly here. The problem you had when broaching this issue with your wife *isn't* in the choice of your words or in how agitated either of you got, or even whether you still feel resentful. The problem is with your mental attitude regarding the situation. You are still trying to dictate how it should be handled. This is not a desirable approach to resolving an issue while at the same time finding your way to a better relationship with your wife, as your posts seem to indicate you wish to do. No wonder she felt she was being managed! The more useful goal is to try to find a solution that you can both be satisfied enough with. This requires negotiation, it requires input from your wife, it requires you both to respect each other's point of view. It's perfectly OK -- in fact, it's necessary! -- to tell her what you would like as part of the process, but if it ends there, you have not reached a consensus and you have not reached your true goal.

Does she actually *want* her clothes turned right side out? If she does, then she needs to negotiate with you about how the two of you can work *cooperatively* to achieve that goal -- she's not entitled to demand that you achieve that for her no matter how many obstacles she throws in the way. If the result of that negotiation is that she agrees she will turn her clothes right side out when she puts them in the laundry, then you need to have a companion negotiation, right at the same time as the initial one, about what should you do if she doesn't follow through -- what signal will be acceptable to her to make her aware that she has fallen back into her previous habit? And you also need to have a conversation about what *she* should do if *you* don't follow through -- regardless of whether either of you thinks that would never happen. The process has to be even-handed towards both parties.

If she doesn't care whether her clothes are right side out or inside out, then you are free to choose to do either one. But if you decide to turn then right side out, accept the reality that you are doing it to satisfy your own needs or desires, needs/desires that your wife is not obligated to satisfy for you or even help you satisfy.

Frankly, if I were in this situation, I probably would *not* hang the clothes up inside out -- I'd say to my spouse, "Honey, I've been thinking about our recent dialogue regarding the laundry, and I've realized I wasn't negotiating with you, I was trying to just get to a convenient answer without getting into an argument [or whatever you think is an accurate description of your underlying intentions at the time]-- and I'd really like to try to give it another try and negotiate fairly to find a solution we can both be satisfied with."

Hang in there! There are many stumbles and missteps along the road to improvement -- when you have reached the point where your marriage has been (and mine was once, too), it's a rocky road indeed. I can see how hard you are working and you are making important progress. You just have to "pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again". My sense is that the odds are in your favor if you keep plugging away. Good luck!

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

Better Late than Never :-)

Submitted by Hoping4More on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 14:31

Oops - somehow a duplicate got posted and I don't know how to delete it.

Better Late than Never :-)

Submitted by Hoping4More on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 14:16

Thanks for this post Awren. You are right that it is helpful even if i don't apply it to the clothes situation.

First, an update about that. I have been hanging/folding her clothes whatever way she puts them in the laundry. And now, most of the time her clothes are turned right side out. I want to tell her I appreciate her effort - as I know it's probably a big effort on her part to do something that is simple for me. (Usually, if I am aked to do something differently, it is very easy for me to do it the next time and remember from then on to do it that way - not so with my wife. I really do GET that.) I am fearful though, that however I try to compliment her, she will hear it as some sort of criticism. My thoughts are to say "Honey, I notice you have been turning your clothes rightside out before putting them in the hamper and I want you to know I appreciate that." That seems like a compliment to me. I hope she hears it that way.

I hear what you say (and no, I am not at all offended, but thanks for asking) about my wanting to dictate a solution when I broached the topic with her. (She didn't know it at the time tho; when she said "I feel like you are managing me" I had only asked her a question. Tho maybe she knows me well enough to know where I was heading.) Thanks for that feedback. I will work at keeping that in mind when I approach her with something in the future.

Thanks also for your suggestion about negotiating what to use as a signal in case either of us "slips." I have tried that before, with mixed results. Maybe I am not asking the right question. What I tend to say is something like "If you do forget, how might I remind you in a way that doesn't feel like criticism?" Maybe it would be better to say "How might I bring it to your attention?" or "How might I point it out to you?"

i usually say

Submitted by arwen on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 22:09

"I know you're working really hard to remember, and I think you've been doing a very good job -- but what would you like me to do or say if you should happen to forget at some point down the road". A message like this mixes the compliment with the request, which tends to make the request a little more palatable. (Obviously, I realize, it does also somewhat diminish the compliment. But with my own spouse, that's often a good thing. If he hears only praise, he'll think he's conquered his problem and never has to turn his attention to it again -- with the results that you'd expect, the whole thing falls apart. So for my husband, it's actually *necessary* to mix the slightly bitter with the sweet, in order to keep him from careening off track again.)

The virtue of the way I ask about the signal, though, is that it suggests that his recent and current success is a good indication that problems are unlikely to crop up in the near future, and that I believe that the vast majority of the time he will succeed in his efforts. Again, this implies a compliment, and support and confidence in my spouse's efforts. It's hard for him to claim that I'm criticizing when I put it this way.

I think your sense is correct that you shouldn't bring up your wife's tendency to take things as criticism, as part of your query -- my sense is that it would just ruffle her feathers further. But I would go a little farther myself than what you are suggesting as alternatives. Instead of assuming that you should be bringing it to her attention or pointing it out to her (both of which imply that she needs these things things brought to her attention because she's not noticing herself -- not complimentary), you could just ask her what she would like you to do or say if it happens that she forgets. By leaving it at that, you are talking more about the nature of your information exchange and less about *why* a particular kind of information may needs to take place. It may turn out that what she wants you do doesn't involve you pointing out anything -- maybe it could be that she would prefer that you not process that clothes that are inside out, and to let her discover that she doesn't have as many clean clothes as she expected. It's perfectly OK for you to suggest various possible ways to address her potential forgetting, but it's important to keep the salad bar of ideas as broad and varied as you can, so that she doesn't feel she is be driven into a choice she really doesn't like.

You're on the right track, keep at it, you will get there!

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

If I hung up clothes inside out...

Submitted by Sueann on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 15:08

he'd wear them that way. But he says that's the right way to wash them, because the inside is dirtier than the outside. (My husband has hyperhydrosis-excessive sweating- so it's true in his case.)

But he doesn't notice if a sweater or pair of socks or something is wrong side out. Drives me crazy.

As I see it

Submitted by Rosem1111 on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 01:37

I am replying to your initial post as I perceived it and have not taken into account any answers to it.

I don't agree that your request is "simple". What does that mean anyway? When people say "It was just a simple request", that is actually in a sort of code for something like "She should have done it". I think you are criticizing her behaviour. You don't like what she is doing do you? That is criticism when you are saying she should do it differently & she knows that. It seems to me that you have an expectation that your wife should agree to your request for her to do this "favour". I think it is in fact controlling of you to do this. And I think using the word "favour" is manipulative.

In assertive communication, one can make a request, but one cannot expect one will get it granted. I suggest you read up on assertive behaviour.

You sound to me as wanting to get your way. Sure you have reasons. I am sure she has reasons too. You both need to have a say. I think you just want her agreement and are saying she should do this and shouldn't blame you for wanting this. Maybe she just doesn't want to do some things and you keep at her to do them? That is annoying and you are not her parent or judge. But you can decide what you will do as a consequence of what she does.

Also I think you two need to talk & find what you are both wanting or able to do. This is a several stage process. It could end up that you will no longer agree to do your part the washing if she won't do the previous turning out. You can say this pleasantly. It is not a war zone. Maybe you both could wash your own clothes if you both can't agree. What you get rightfully to choose is what you do. You can tell her you won't wash her clothes if she doesn't turn them right way out. I told my family I don't check pockets. Washed a few interesting things. Some even worked after they went through both the washer and the dryer. Some didn't.

It sounds to me that you and your wife have ongoing disagreements and she thinks you are controlling. I am thinking you might be too. I want to suggest to you that what you think should be done is only your opinion. You and your wife need to give and take and negotiate. Having said that, I know this is difficult to achieve. I think you have a problem in yourself. Some things we just have to let go in the cause of marital harmony which surely is what really matters? You telling her what to do is not in the interests of marital harmony & she is not fooled by smokescreens like "just a simple request" and "do me a favour".

There is a new book out that I am just reading that seems to build really well on assertion training. It is nonviolent communication by Marshall Rosenberg. Maybe you'd like to read it.

turning inside out

Submitted by JAM on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 03:32

It is a **courtesy** to turn your clothes right side out when they are going to be washed by someone else. Just as it is a **courtesy** to clean up spills and messes after yourself if it is someone else's responsibility to clean. Asking that clothing be turned right side out is not controlling, it is a **courtesty** request that is, yes, a simple request. You already have your hands in the sleeves of a top even if you take if off inside out. One more second to reverse it to right side out is not a controlling request. It is unkind and downright rude to continue a behavior that makes it more difficult for a person to do their job.

Your Tone Seems a Little Hostile to Me

Submitted by Hoping4More on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:00

Rosem1111, according to your post anything I ask my wife to do is "controlling" and I just don't buy that. Where is the line, I wonder? If my wife just dropped her clothes on the floor where she took them off and I asked her to put them in the hamper instead of dropping them on the floor - would that be controlling, also? I think not, even though it would only take me a couple of minutes to pick them up. I don't really see how that is any different than my requesting she turn them right side out (which I haven't yet done, BTW).

I agree that my request is more of a *courtesy* request, as suggested in the comment above. And maybe that should have been my original question - how do I make a request that is about asking my wife to do something out of *courtesy* for me, without her thinking I am criticizing her and getting defensive? I am more than willing to do somethng out of courtesy for her if she asks, and I wouldn't take offense if she asked me. I might not agree with her, and I would probably tell her why if I didn't. But in the end, if she said "I agree your way is better, and I am still asking you to do it this way FOR ME" I think I would honor her request.

I don't think I said that

Submitted by Rosem1111 on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 02:16

Hi Hoping.

You started your reply to me by telling me what I was meaning in my post. You gave me a "you" statement". "I" statements seem to work much better as a form of communication. You could Google about that.

A big risk in using "you" statements is that one is making a pronouncement about another person or what they said or did and you may be incorrect and also give offence.

In this case you started your reply by stating about my comment that "according to your post anything I ask my wife to do is "controlling" (my black). This is your preception and your opinion. The fact is that I did not say that and I suggest you might reread what I said and consider it more deeply.

I was giving you my opinion and was trying to help you. These are not just my ideas so I don't take it personally at all if you don't see it as I do and I shouldn't get offended if you think differently to me anyway in these two posts. I have learned all I am saying. We aren't born knowing "it" all and our families can't be counted on to teach us enough or even the right way to go about things. And there are bound to be differences of opinion between people. A question is how to get along with the others.

I suggest again that you read up on assertion. Making a request gives no guarantee the person does it. It is just like buying a lottery ticket: it gives you a chance your request will be met. A book I learned a lot from is "People Making" by Bolton. There always seems to be more to learn too.

A request is still just a request even if we call it "simple", whatever "simple" means. You want something and you ask. That is what a request is.

Why should you get your request met? I think that is a good question. People who think their requests should be met, ie, that they should get what they want, as said to have a sense of entitlement rather than the humble view that the other person has a right to choose without being judged or punished for what they choose.

It doesn't matter if somebody chooses, despite a request being made, to do something somebody or even a thousand (or whatever) people say is a bad or wrong choice. But you obviously don't seem to agree with me & my mentors on this.

It is manipulation to ask someone to do something "for you". That is such a loaded request and it seems your wife knows it. I bet she is in a heap of trouble with you if she doesn't do you the "courtesy" of doing what you want.

A version of asking someone to do something "for..." is the charity collectors who collar one and ask "Do you want to help the .....?". They are being manipulative.

If you keep pressuring your wife to please you, certain consequences will occur.

After my first post to you I started reading a copy of Edward De Bono's "The De Bono Code Book" that I got at a sale last Saturday. I opened it at random, at p.189 about "CODE 10", number 14. The code (what the person is thinking or saying; it sounds like your post to me) states;

"I am annoyed and upset about a particular individual or action. I am not at all pleased about this. I hope it can be put right - or an apology offered."

But De Bono says that what is really going on is the following:

This could be called 'sulking', but no one would use this code if it were so called.

De Bono's advice is:

"The specific subject of the annoyance should be spelled out:

'I am 10/14 over the sloppy way you prepared that meeting'

'10/14 with regard to the way you contradicted me at the meeting. You should have told me before.'"

These are not my words. I was struck by how they seemed to fit your issue though so I am sharing them in case they might cast light on something.

Oh, yes, could you just was your wife's clothes in the way they come to you? If not, a good question might be "Why not?".

Hoping4More: Your request is

Submitted by Ren on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:43

Hoping4More: Your request is a simple one, and it is not controlling. The fact that you are looking for a way to address this in a way that will not make your wife feel bad shows that you are showing empathy and concern for your wife. Ignore any comment that says otherwise; that's just crazymaking, and you probably deal with enough crazymaking already.

I think Arwen's suggestion to choose your requests to the ones that really matter is easier said than done. So I am going to be completely on your side on this one and you can feel free to respond and be heard on this matter, because I feel your pain completely.

I don't know your situation, but if I had to guess, this "small thing" is a big thing because it's only one of the many, many things you are doing for your household. Yes, if all I were doing was the laundry, and my husband were doing a lot of other chores, it wouldn't be such a big deal for me to turn the clothes right side out. However, when it falls on me to do the laundry, pay the bills, clean the house, manage the finances, do the dishes, take care of our 3 1/2 year old son and 10 month old daughter, plan vacations, send thank you notes/birthday cards/wedding gifts, file our txaes (which I still haven't done yet), keep our vehicles registered and running, take out the trash, cook the meals, do household shopping AND WORK FULL TIME, you can bet your a-- that it would be nice if my husband could do a small thing that would save me an extra 5 or 10 minutes.

With that said, I agree with Arwen that this small thing is in fact a big, or even imposible thing for an ADD person. As a result, it's unlikely to happen, or at least to happen with any consistency. The overration from your wife is probably a defensive reaction because she *knows* that this is going to be very hard for her, and it's easier for her to make it seem like you are being nitpicky, controlling, or unreasonable than to admit that she is not going to be able to follow through on your request.

Honestly, I think that the *true* request you are making in this whole scenario is to be appreciated for what you are doing, period. It seems to me that if your wife were to say, "I know that it annoys you when I don't turn the clothes right side out, and no matter how much I try to remember, I can't seem to. Thank you for dealing with that and for doing my laundry," I think that it wouldn't annoy you as much, or even at all, if you had to continue turning the clothes right side out. What you are really looking for (I think) is recognition for your contribution to your family, and specifically for your wife -- and not just to feel like an invisible slave, which is what a lot of non-ADD people feel like.

This is the breakthrough I have had with my husband since his ADD diagnosis. For a long time, it wasn't just that he wasn't helping, but that he didn't even see all that I was doing -- which is why any request I made was interpreted as a petty criticism. Since he was diagnosed with ADD (by Dr. H himself, so he really couldn't argue with it), and started taking the meds, he has had to face the load that I carry. I continue to deal with the same issues -- door left open so all the heat escapes, clothes left on the floor *right beside* the hamper...you know the deal. But he has become so much more grateful and appreciative for what I do, because he recognizes that I am making *his* life easier by taking on these responsibilities. And with this recognition, I have noticed that he is making an effort to do more -- every now and then a load of dishes will get washed without me asking, or the folded clothes put away instead of accumulating on top of the dresser, and this makes things better, if not perfect. At this point, I am willing to take it.

Has your wife been diagnosed with ADD? If not, it is going to be a hard road to get the recognition that you are looking for. In my opinion, 60% of the improvement with ADD comes from the ADD spouse's self-awareness, which comes through their diagnosis and acceptance. Then it's about 20% meds and 20% therapy.

I hope this is helpful for you.

You Seem Like A Very Complicated Person

Submitted by hopeless in hawaii on Mon, 04/05/2010 - 19:03

Wow Rosem1111, you seem like a very complicated person. By reading your numerous posts on this page, it seems to me, that you take the simplest question, and need to analyze, dissect it, and then come to a scientific/medical, and psychological conclusion. To me, what I feel what is "basic courtesy & mutual respect" that should be given, despite the fact that our spouses have ADD/HD... that it doesn't need to to always be referred back to what you are basically implying... how one should find out their answers by "educating" themselves by reading a "book". Yes, I too have educated myself on how my spouses ADHD brain works differently, and how to approach situatuations, and the expectations involved, but your opionion on you dissagreeing on "a simple request", and how you feel that he is projecting "control" over a simple request is very ridiculous. It's a request on when he has to fold the clothes after washing...not brain surgery. You must have tons of books to refer to every single situation that happens daily in your life if you don't think thats "simple".

Although you state that you don't agree that his request is "simple"...to me it is. You also go on to state that you feel that he is "controlling" when he does ask of this request/favour, and state that the favor he is asking is "manipulative" behavior on his part. In my opinion, I highly dissagree. It's not that he lashed out at her, and demanded that she do it the way he wants because it's the right way, or he won't do it...now thats "controlling behavior". It's not that he was asking her trick questions either, to try to coerce her into thinking what she was doing was wrong...now thats "manipulative". Perhaps the questions during their conversation was also just a form of him trying to just communicate w/his wife...something that is almost always non existent with our ADD/HD spouses. From your opinions in your posts, you really come across negative, and cut & dry.

For someone who outright just tells their family "I don't do pockets" and continues to not budge on that decision, regardless if it continues to ruins batches of clothes, sounds more controlling to me, than to have an understanding give or take approach regardless if your expectations are not met. You should know this if you're the non-ADHD spouse...we're the ones that give more in the relationship. Sounds like you run a household thats cut and dry. ADD/HD or not...people make mistakes and forget. Whether his spouse took it the wrong way (which is common of ADD/HD persons) is not his fault, and is not showing controlling manipulative behavior. To me, that shows "respect" and "courtesy" of validating both parties opinion on the matter. It's not that he's accusing her that shes wrong and that he's right on the issue. He's just really asking for a favor that would make his task of helping her out easier. His ADD/HD spouse might not ever "get it" all the time, and he may have to remind her about things repeatedly, but don't we have to remind them about numerous "simple" things also? Thats part of understanding ADD/HD behavior...is that they tend to frequently forget things. I'm sure you read that in one of your books also. If she is in agreeance to do her husband that favor, since he is doing her a favour... then wheres the contol issue? If every non-ADD/HD spouse were to have that mentality of "I don't do this, or I don't do that" because their expectations would not be met...then nothing would be done....and we'll be dealing w/alot of ruined batches of clothes. Sorry, but you can also go read in one of your books that ADD/HD is not a "crippling" disease, and that despite the dissability they have, they are not exempt from learning, understanding, and complying from their non-ADD/HD spouses perspectives also. The world does not revolve around them...marriage is a TEAM EFFORT. If the problem DOES persist, then one can decide on how to go about resolving the problem then. Sounds like this guy is a pretty good guy considering that he's washing HER clothes already. I'm sure that even if she forgets to unintentionally forget to turn her clothes the right side out...he'll continue folding them for her. Give him a break!!! Sometimes just being book smart doesn't anwer all questions...especially the "simple" ones. A little common sense goes a long way!!!

YOU GO!!!! Hopeless In

Submitted by newfdogswife on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 04:49

YOU GO!!!! Hopeless In Hawaii!!!!!

SIMPLE REQUEST

Submitted by Clarity on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 12:54

I vote yes, it is a simple request, the kind I've learned to deal with though and don't bother him about as it is to too easy to instigate big fights about nothing. There is enough finger pointing and confusion resolving anything with my ADD spouse so I take care of the little things myself and break down the big things in the simplest of terms in the hopes of a quick resolution.

It boils down to intentions. It has never been my intent to control or manipulate but to work together, cooperate and compromise with my husband. I wanted to have an exchange of ideas, a dialogue, but I have found his nonsense demands the right of way. I have to pick my fights. Like Arwen, I have much bigger fish to fry...

Picking one's fights

Submitted by Rosem1111 on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 02:33

Yes indeed, we should pick our fights.

My husband of many difficult years is extremely ADD. He has taught me many things.

I find that the best guide to what requests of his I agree to is to check in with myself. Then the next step is to respond, carefully and with a calm, pleasant confidence & stick to it. A certain vagueness and elusiveness helps. One can say no but without pushing (think of him as pushing you the cloud).

I have found not agreeing to do what my husband wants to be an upsetting and scary experience. I has many things to learn. It helped immenself to realise we were equals, really, and that one person cannot morally judge another.

I also had to face my fear and do it anyway and then try to hang on in there as well I couls when he almost inevitably punished me for not being his doormat. I still find that very difficult as he can be very nasty and I am unable to reason with him as logical discussions are not what he can do or wants to do. His favourite ways of talking to me are well outlined in Patricia Evans' "The Verbally Abusive Relationship".

Dealing with my emotions is my biggest problem and I think my husband works on that by threatening my peace of mind/emotions. That is a general fact for women who are married to difficult husbands (and vice versa), which is why counsellors typically advice one to leave such a partner. That has certainly been what they have told me and they have been very annoyed when I have decided not to take their advice. Of relevance is that it has been suggested that lots of counsellors are codependent.

I will say it again

Submitted by Rosem1111 on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 07:14

I will pick my fights.

I am not going to be lured into the arena by "you" statements about my personal qualities. Nor will I even read those comments carefully or dwell on them.

And abuse is abuse is abuse. And i know what it is. I'm very open to discussing matters but a discussion is a discussion, not a personal attack. If you don't understand what I am saying, I suggest you go figure it out by researching these matters. I have given enough clues & now I'm gone.

Enough said. Perhaps more than enough. I'll think about that later & will make up my own mind about that.

Request

Submitted by Hoping4More on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 10:50

Hi Rosem,

You said in an earlier post above: "Making a request gives no guarantee the person does it. It is just like buying a lottery ticket: it gives you a chance your request will be met."

My point exactly - I would like to make a request of my wife - that she put her clothes right side out when she takes them off. I agree that it is MY responsibility to be clear in what I am requesting - and I believe I am very good at being clear in my requests.

I also agree that once I make the request, it is entirely up to my wife to do it or not. It is HER choice. I have no intent or desire of manipulating her into doing what I ask. Of course, I HOPE she says yes, otherwise I would not make the request. But she is a grown woman capable of deciding for herself what she will or will not do.

I HOPE she sees why I am making the request. But even if she doesn't, I HOPE she will still do it out of love for me, simply because I have made the request. That doesn't mean she does not have the right to choose NOT to do it.

I also hope that if she does CHOOSE not to do it she tell me that. And then it is up to ME to decide what to do with that information. I would rather her tell me she CHOOSES not to do it than tell me she WILL do it if she has no intention of doing it.

Of course there's another possibility - she tells me she intends to do it and she DOES intend to do it but then forgets, for whatever reason. That's something else entirely. And if she does forget, it would be up to me to choose to overlook it, knowing full well she INTENDED to do it, or to say something, maybe: "honey, I noticed you have forgotten to put some of your clothes right side out this week. Would it be OK with you if I remind you about this?"

THAT, to me, is negotiation.

My original question was: How can I phrase a request (any request) in a way that she HEARS it as a request and NOT a criticism or a demand? It just so happened that in this case it was about how she puts her clothes in the hamper.

Because I fully believe that if something bugs me and I have not been successfull (not for lack of trying) in just overlooking it, then it IS my responsibility to tell her. I know it's silly for me to let something like that to bug me. And I have TRIED to overlook it by telling myself it's silly to be annoyed by it. And yet, no matter what I do, I find I am still annoyed. That doesn't mean I will stop trying NOT to be annoyed. But shouldn't I SAY something rather than just hold it in? If I haven't been successful in just overlooking something, don't I have a responsibility of saying something so it doesn't fester and turn into anger and resentment? Because if I don't TELL her, how will she know? She isn't a mind reader. And for all I know she will say - "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that bothered you. Of course I can turn my clothes right side out when I take them off." And if I DO tell her, I believe it is also my responsibility to tell her that in as loving a way as possible.

Just an aside here: I don't like it when something I do bothers someone and they don't tell me, which is a big reason I feel like I should speak up when something bothers me. And in fact, speaking up didn't used to be easy for me, it's something I had to LEARN to do. Maybe I learned it TOO well. :-)

So, my original question was really more about how to phrase a request (any request) in a way so that someone with ADD, who has some self-esteem issues, who tends to hear ALL requests as criticisms, in a way that minimizes the chance that she will hear it as a criticism? And when I said "simple request" I didn't mean to imply that it was something that would be simple or easy for my wife to comply with. I what I mean by the phrase "simple request" is that it is a request that is just that (or, simply that) - a request only (Much like "would you please pass the salt" or "would you please grab me a bottle of water while you are up" are simple requests) - not something that has undertones of criticism or manipulation.

Hopeful: I would stop

Submitted by Ren on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 12:54

Hopeful: I would stop engaging Rosem on this topic. Listen to me: you are right. Your request is simple. It is reasonable. It is not critical. It is a perfectly normal type of request for one to make, and for a spouse to at least try to comply with in a marriage. Punto.

The issue here is your wife's reaction. It is my belief that there is no way you are going to be able to make a request like this, or any other, without her taking it as a criticism until she has a level of self awareness about how her ADD affects others. That's not in your control.

However, I think there are alternative ways you can approach this. If you agree that this is a difficult request for her to comply with, and that you would be satisfied with at least an acknowledgement on her part that this bugs you and she appreciates your dealing with it, let me suggest another approach.

There was an article in the NYTimes a while ago called "What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage." It's about a husband and is presented as a gender thing, but rereading it I think the author had a spouse with an undiagnosed case of ADD. The article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/fashion/25love.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2.

With ADD, there are two things going on. One is that doing simple things like this is difficult for your wife, which makes her defensive. Pointing out what she's not doing (remember, I TOTALLY agree with you that that is not your intention, but that is how she will hear it) and can't really change, only worsens her self-esteem and sense of failure. Second, there is no sufficient immediate "reward" that makes her brain capable of focusing on turning her clothes inside out, even if she wanted to. That is, I can almost guarantee you that even if she said, "I will try," she would probably fail. It wouldn't be personal, it's ADD.

So, try the Shamu approach. Pick something else that you like her to do, that makes your life easier. Turning clothes right side out is not a good one, since, in any given load, you can never know when she has done it "right," you can only see the ones she has done "wrong." Say it's (like in the article), putting clothes in the hamper. When you witness her doing it, give her positive feedback -- "thanks! I really appreciate you doing that!" or a hug, or whatever. Now, I agree that it's ridiculous that you have to give someone a medal for doing something so simple, but I think praise and positive reinforcement will 1) boost her confidence that she can do things right, and be less defensive as a result and 2) create a "reward" that may make it more appealing for her to focus on doing other things that you like her to do. it is also a very Ghandian approach to her, in that you are "being the change you want to see," i.e., showing appreciation and love.

You can try Rosem's technique and have a hard line that you won't do the clothes that aren't turned right side out, or that you'll return them to her that way, or not do the laundry at all. I used to do that kind of thing before I learned that my husband had ADD, thinking that the "consequences" would force him to change. It didn't, which only made me madder, and it probably felt to him that I was punishing him for something he couldn't change. I also hated the way I felt about MYSELF when I took this approach. Frankly, Rosem's approach for someone who has ADD sounds extremely passive-agressive and not compassionate at all.

A think a Ghandian-Shamu approach would do wonders for your sanity and create a more forgiving environment for the future, and then maybe explicit requests would be better received.

You Definitely Get It - Thanks

Submitted by Hoping4More on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 13:23

Ren,

You definitely get it. My making sure my wife "suffers the consequesnces" feels mean to me and I don't like how I feel when I do it.

Thank you!

I just read the article you referenced and it is wonderful. I'm sure it won't be a magic, miracle cure. But it will give me something to try that might result in my criticizing and nagging my wife less and at the same time feel less annoyed. Thank you for getting what I was asking and also for thelink to the article. If you know of any others, or books you might recommend, I'd love to hear about them.

Thanks again.

I'm glad you liked the

Submitted by Ren on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 13:39

I'm glad you liked the article. You and I are struggling with the same things. It is hard to know what you should do (be loving forgiving, accepting) and still feel the way do actually do (annoyed, angry, etc.).

One thing that has helped me immednsely is a program called Marriage Fitness. You can check it out at https://marriagemax.com/. The idea of the program is to fix yourself first. It is, again, very Ghandian, and very difficult to do -- it's easy to fixate on the failings of your spouse (as I have started to do again, since not being as consistent with the program) than to acknowledge your own failings. But it is so simple, and so straightforward, I can't see how it wouldn't work if you have the discipline and motivation to follow through on its teachings.

Even if you don't want to shell out the money for the program, you can sign up for free emails, which are inspirational and help to get you focused back on the true meaning of marriage. For what it's worth, my marriage was on the brink of divorce six months ago. I did the "Lone Ranger" track of the program, got my husband back in the door (yes, it was a weird situation where he threatened to leave me, even though I was the one doing everything, but anyway...) and we were able to start connecting again, which helped us identify and diagnose his ADD. I think we still have a long road ahead, but it sounds like you are at a very mature point in that you are recognizing that you are playing a role in your marital dynamic, and I think this program would help.

we did marriage fitness

Submitted by sandune on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 14:06

I was so glad to see marriage fitness.........I am the non adhd and have searched for 4 years to try to understand what was happening in front of my eyes each and everyday............we tried counseling 3 times, minister, etc. without results. I had to move out 7 months ago to save myself. I discovered marriage fitness and highly recommend it to "normal" relationships. Very basic relationship habits to re-connect. My adhd spouse sorta seemed to grasp the concept initially but has ignored the advice and suggestions. I admire the anyone in the lone ranger track and yes you can fix yourself for sure however, an adhd spouse out chasing rainbows is so unaware. Anyway, that is where I am...............so alone in so many ways. The emotional loneliness is torture.

Sandune

sandune: I truly feel your

Submitted by Ren on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 14:25

sandune: I truly feel your pain about the emotional lonliness. I agree that Marriage Fitness is harder to do with an ADD spouse. The problem is that it is based on your spouse actually noticing what you are doing, and then being inspired to change also, which is very difficult if the problem is that your spouse tunes you out in the first place.

With that said, my spouse definitely noticed that I was being nicer, and going out of my way (this was before we even knew he had ADD). He eventually joined me to listen to some of the tapes, but is still having difficulty implementing the habits. For example, he knows it is important that we take time to talk during the day, but he forgets, or gets distracted by work, etc. I am hopeing that some coaching will help him in this arena, e.g., scheduling a phone call in his calendar or setting an alarm, etc. It certainly makes me feel sometimes like I am not interesting or important enough for him to remember to do this on his own, since I definitely make him a priority without reminders and a lot of extra effort. I try to remind myself that this is his brain, though, and not him.

Still, I know it is lonely. Hang in there.

lonely

Submitted by sandune on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:54

My spouse is distracted about every minute.........she is so unaware of her surroundings in general and it is not in her mindset to pick up the phone and just give me 60 seconds during the day. She calls me from the drive in window at chic fil a......then the order taker starts, her children call, her brother calls, her dad calls meanwhile I am on hold.....she comes back on the phone just in time for her to pay for her order and it is all I can do to keep my composure, you see, when i see her call, I can't wait to hear her voice and it goes downhill from there. She honestly does not get how annoying this is day in and day out. The drive in call I know in her mind is to replace the 1 or 2 days she vanishes and is unavailable.

She was diagnosed last summer and refused meds and counseling. She agreed to us going to her psychiartrist this month, so I am hopeful since this doc knows all of the family adhd, mania and bi-polar issues, she may be able to (I hope) coach her, convince her of meds, etc. I am the blogger that just had the cancer surgery last week and the only task my spouse was able to complete was sitting in the waiting room for 5 hours. After that, it was back to wrapping Easter presents, family in town and her daughter's birthday. She went to Augusta for Masters practice rounds today with her son and father and I have probably had maybe 3 calls from her in a week just to see how I was doing. My ex-wife has spent more time to help me re her concern because my adhd wife just dumped me on my doorstep last Wednesday after I was discharged from the hospital. It is so amazing to me that she can do these things however, this site has been a wonderful help on getting beyond the adhd......you see, I use to take it personally and now I don't.

sandune

I'll Check it Out

Submitted by Hoping4More on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 15:01

Thanks again, Ren. I also learned a long time ago that I only have control of my own actions. That doesn't mean I can't make a request of someone else. But I have to be able to leave the actual changing (if any) up to the other person. I can lovingly state clear limits and expectations (a la The Dance of Anger), but I only have "power" over myself. I will definitely check out this other website. And BTW - I feel vry lucky in that my ADHD spouse DOES want to change if she can. Her intentions are there. AND she is willing to work on things - hence, our reading the 5 Languages of Love book together, among others.

wasted breath

Submitted by callmesusan on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 09:37

Ren, I really like what you say here. But, for 35 years I have been trying to cajole my husband into desired behaviors through atta boys. I have nearly exhausted myself doing this in fact. I think it exhausted me because I was spending the energy, spinning up my hope for a better future, and falling into the realization that the compliment didn't even seem to enter his consciousness. The synapse didn't happen. The dots never connected. In the past three weeks I am learning it is his ADD brain. Maybe medication will help with this? I would be happy for both of us if he were able hear, soak in, and enjoy a compliment.

Phrase any request any way

Submitted by Clarity on Tue, 04/06/2010 - 20:25

One Saturday morning, I awoke next to my husband. I was still sleepy and lovingly said "Morning, can I make you an omelette for breakfast?" He angrily snarled "Is that all you can do is make eggs for breakfast?" Mind you, it was a weekend and I did not usually make him any breakfast at all as we both left for work at different times. I never offered to make him breakfast again. That was almost thirty years ago and I've been walking on eggshells ever since!

It's crazy but, any request seems to provoke anger and irritation in my ADD spouse. In pointing that out to him, his answer is that I am irritating. I'm dismissed and told to "deal with it". If he was not (finally) medicated I would have to leave since it was always a damned if I do or don't kind of thing. The medication really helped his hyper-irritability. I hope you do much better than that!

Thank you Clarity

Submitted by Rosem1111 on Mon, 05/10/2010 - 23:31

I wish my husband was medicated.

Yours sounds so like mine.

I never know "who" he'll be . It's like moving round the cycle of violence. Well, I guess it is moving round the cycle of violence, only he has all these unfathomable (by me) causes for why he starts being nasty or saying unreasonable things or acting weirdly.

And some things I also stop doing because of how he acted. I think of doing something (like your asking about breakfast) and then how he was nasty about it before gets in the way. I back away from doing that because of the negative quality in there now, as in the burnt child fears the fire. I have to reassure myself to wear my special religious cord with some special items on it as it feels contaminated because he admired it and asked me, with a nasty edge to his manner, to wear it next time we had sex. What the?!!!! By the way, he does not share my religion. He has no religion except that I think he may be his god (seriously - what he wants & thinks he believes just has to be how it should be).

turning inside out

Submitted by callmesusan on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 00:52

Hoping4more, I totally get the problem. I wonder the same thing everytime I do the laundry. Why are all of his shirts inside out?! It does grate on the nerves of a guy who makes sure his/her own clothes are ready to be folded again. I agree with Awren about picking battles. I also like the suggestion to fold/hang them the way you find them: inside out. It gets you out of the loop and allows your wife to turn them inside out when she gets dressed, if she wants to. Another thought is that my sister said washing clothes inside out helps them look nicer longer. Maybe if you could see turning her shirts for her as a loving gesture, that would be nice. I guess this is where I have left it with my husband. I know for certain that if I ask him to please turn his clothes right side out to help me (I'm most certain I have.), he will say, "sure" and really mean it and then forget the conversation ever ocurred before he even gets the final e past his lips. sigh. I know the frustrations. This is just one example from a long list, eh? Learning more about ADHD in the past three weeks than I ever dreamed I would ever need to, I now understand that he doesn't forget on purpose, to make my life harder, to ignore my wishes. I now understand it is his wiring. It's helping me not take these things personally. (So far...) Good luck.

I'd Love a Simple "Sure"

Submitted by Hoping4More on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 13:06

Knittergirl - that's exactly what I mean. I'd just love for my wife to just say "sure" in response to a simple request. Though I suspect, as I write this, that for the reason you suggest - that my wife might also fail if she DID say "sure" - might be a reason she would NOT say "sure" - because she thinks she would fail.

I suppose my thought about that is, if she'd like to honor my request but is afraid to because she thinks she'd fail, then I wish she'd tell me that. Then I could either say - "Oh, then never mind - it's not worth the effort on your part" or "maybe we can come up with a way to help you remember" or some other collaborative response.

My issue is that I don't experience conversations with my wife as collaborative. They are more often argumentative/combative. And I'm sure she would say the same of me - that she wishes I were more collaborative, rather than critical/confrontational, when I speak to her. Sigh . . .

Maybe it beacause your

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 13:19

Maybe it beacause your requests make no sense? Like why would I agree to turn clothes right side out for no reason other than you asked?

Do you give her a reason why something needs to be done? Do you allow for the fact that she might not do it right everytime?

Maybe if you said something like "I think the clothes wash better right side out and its less trouble to fold them that way. If you can remember to turn them right side out, that would be great"

Use all postitive.

It would be great of you remember to turn the clothes right side out. If you would drop this off at the post office I'll give you a big hug when you get home.

Instead of Don't leave the clothes wrong side out. Or don't forget to drop off the thing like you did last time.

Actually . . .

Submitted by Hoping4More on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 13:32

I did make the request as nicely as i could. I believe it was "Honey, when you leave your clothes turned inside out I have to turn them all rightside out again when I do the wash. Would you mind turning them right side out when you take them off?"

What she heard was me saying "You never do anything right."

May I ask

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 01:23

May I ask why you are supposed to turn clothes right side out before you wash them? Is there a specific reason? Like do they wash better or something? I never thought there would be a difference! And don't some clothes wind up getting turned wrong side out or partly wrong side out while they are getting washed anyways? Isn't that why you turn them right side out when you fold them?

Please forgive my ADD incompetence *sigh*

I don't know either!

Submitted by Astrea on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 01:36

I wash clothes based on what part of them is dirtiest. My son's t-shirts get turned back out-side out because of how messy they end up. I tend to wash my clothes inside out because the front of them is clean, but it's the inside where I've been sweating that needs to be cleaned.

Socks confuse me though! Feet sweat, so the inside needs to be washed, but that sweat can also soak through to the outside which would mean the outside needs to be washed... and that's when I give up on the washing and make a coffee!!

Honestly, for the most part, I think it's personal preference, so I wouldn't worry about it. I never really thought there was a difference either and I'm the non-ADD partner!

It's Not Really About the Clothes, It's About Making a Request

Submitted by Hoping4More on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 12:56

While I used the clothes as an example, my original post was not asking "How do I get my wife to turn her clothes right side out?" but "How do I make a request of my wife without her thinking I am criticizing her?" So, with the clothes example, I would have no problem if she responded, "I turn my clothes inside out before I wash them because I have heard they wash better that way." Or "I don't really have a reason. In fact, I never thought about it before and din't realize it feels like an imposition for you to turn them right-side out. Would you like me to try to remember to turn them right side out?" Or whatever.

I'd just like to be able to make a request, and have my wife respond in a collaborative way rather than defensively, either by saying she would rather not honor my request, and tell me why so I can understand why she can't/won't honor it, tell me she will do her best to honor my request, or else talk with me about some compromise.

What I am having a hard time with is that it seems like so often I am not able to ask my wife to do something without her taking it as a criticism, and then it turning into a disagreement or worse, a fight. Maybe I just need to stop asking her to do things differently? Because I gotta say, I am so tired of these constant "battles."

PS Re: the laundry - I have been leaving her clothes however they are - she is now remembering to turn things right side out about half the time.

That's not the Issue

Submitted by Ren on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 14:12

I don't think it really matters why you are or are not supposed to turn the clothes right side out. The point here is that this is how Hoping likes it. Maybe it's crazy, maybe it's irrational, maybe it's not. But that's her, and she has a right to request it a certain way. I may be reading more into Hoping's response here, but I think that more than having her request complied with, she wants to be acknolwdged as being another human being with her own tastes and preferences, rather than as some crazy, controlling, and unreasonable person -- which is what is implied when someone cannot respond in a calm and measured way when you ask something.

I'll go a bit further. I personally think that part of commiting to a marriage is accepting that your spouse will have some idiosyncracies, and that you will embrace them. For instance, I have some OCD tendencies, one of them being that I must have orange juice first thing in the morning. Early in my relationship, my husband (then boyfriend) got in a fight because he had not picked up an OJ before my visit, and when I woke up and got cranky, he couldn't understand why I didn't want apple juice. He thought it shouldn't make a difference, that I should be more adaptable, etc. I didn't know what to say -- I need my OJ in the morning like some people need coffee or Diet Coke. A short time after he was at my parent's house and (he told me later), my mom one morning before I woke up said, "Oh, I forgot to pick up OJ! Ren will want that when she gets up, let me run out and get some." He realized then that I had some weird autistic thing about OJ in the morning, and he felt sorry for me. So every since then, he makes sure we have OJ or will understand that I'm cranky in the morning till I get it. For my part, the fact that he embraces this stupid quirky part of me makes me feel *understood* and *connected* to him, I know most other people would never "get" this. And, p.s., he has his share of weird stuff -- like not being able to drink the last few ounces of any bottled beverage (some childhood trauma from drinking backwash -- yes we obviously are a family with beverage issues) so I make sure that I always drink the last part of the drink and open the new one for him, etc.

My point is that being "soul mates" is truly understanding that sometimes there maybe irrational and nonsensical requests from your mate, but that you do it because making them happy (theoretically) should make you happy, too. That's where we non-ADDers get stuck. Because it's hard for us to understand why, if there is something so small that would make such a big difference to us, why would someone who claims to love you not do it? Repeatedly? Why would someone choose to see someone they love unhappy, when a small act on their part can change that? Isn't that a part of what it means to love someone? That you do things that don't matter to you personally, or that you may not like, because it brings joy to the person you love? I mean, I don't particularly like reading "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" five times each night, but I do it because it makes my son so, so happy.

Understanding my husband's ADD has helped a little bit, since I now know that a lot of times it isn't that he doesn't want to do it, or that he doesn't love me, but that something that seems "small" to me is actually very difficult. But it makes a HUGE difference when he just acknowledges that, e.g., "I'm sorry I forgot to do x again, I know that frustrates you," than when he gets defensive and makes ME feel like a bad person for just being me. I'm not cold and unforgiving, as I'm sure Hoping is not -- I'll bet if Hoping's wife just acknowledged Hoping's preferences, and said something like, "It's hard for me to remember to turn the clothes right side out, what if we sat down together before you did laundry and fix it all together?" that would be enormously meaningful to her because it would allow her to feel UNDERSTOOD and CONNECTED.

So, let's get off the point of whether it's a valid request or not. If she feels it, it's valid. The question is how to get her spouse to acknowledge the validity of her feelings, whether or not she chooses to comply with the request. Am I getting this right, Hoping?

You Are getting it Perfectly

Submitted by Hoping4More on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 14:43

Bingo, Ren. That is exactly what would make me happy. Or even if she just said "Honey, I know it bothers you and I'm sorry, but turning my clothes rightside out is just something I will never be able to do." Acknowledging that she hears that something bothers me, that she's sorry that something she does bothers me, is all that I am asking at this point. It's not really about her making the change. It's about her hearing me. And yes, that she do that without insulting me by telling me what a stupid request I am making. And yes, a simple "I'm sorry, I know that bothers you", rather than giving me all these excuses about good intentions.

I think the problem is, she gets so mad at HERSELF for "disappointing" me, doing something that frustrates me, etc. that she wishes she could "simply" not do, that she feels like a great, big failure, and then she thinks *I* think she is a great big failure. And so it is hard for her to acknowledge when she does disappoint or frustrate me. I don't know how to communicate to her that just because she doesn't turn her clothes right side out (or whatever) it's not going to make me love her less, think she's stupid, etc. But my not feeling heard makes me feels ten times more frustrated than the act that caused the frustrations in the first place.

Try Mirroring

Submitted by Ren on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 15:12

Hoping, we went through this cycle, too (and still do). It's like it can never stop being about them. All you want is for your spouse to get out of her own head and just empathize with you, right? You've got a loooooong road ahead, because empathy and ADD do NOT go hand in hand.

With that said, our marriage counselor employed a dialogue technique that basically forces the listener to empathize with you. It's called IMAGO mirroring dialogue. It's very affected, and it's not a way of having a natural conversation, but it does force the listener to put themselves and how they feel on the back burner for two seconds so they can actually look at you and acknowledge that you are another person in the relationship. I don't have the cheat sheet in front of me, but it does soemthing like this:

1. Person 1 (You) say, "It really bothers me when you do x," or "I get frustrated with y," etc. and list your complaints. Get it all out.

2. Person 2 (Listener) says, "So you're saying that," and then she repeats back to you what you just said. Person 2 should not editorialize, or give an interpretation (e.g., "You're saying I'm an idiot") but should instead try to repeat back what YOU are trying to actually say. When she's finished, she says, "Did I get that right?" or "Is that all?"

3. Person 1 now has a chance to add, clarify, etc. if Person 2 missed a lot (which ADD spouse is likely to do first and second time around, because they are still too busy hearing what you are saying as a criticism to actually listen to what you are saying).

4. You repeat steps 1-3 until Person 2 gets it right, then Person 1 (You) say, "Yes, that's right," or "Yes, that's all."

5. Now, Person 2 (Listener) says, "That makes sense because..." and they then have to look at your situation from your point of view and try to imagine how you see it. Remember that this does not mean Person 2 has to AGREE with you. They just have to see that how you feel could make sense in some other (your) universe. So, in laundry example, you would want your spouse to say, "That (your complaints) makes sense because when I don't turn the laundry it out it takes a lot longer for you to fold it," or, if you're going to the deeper issue, "That makes sense because when I don't talk with you about the laundry it seems like I'm not listening to you." When they are finished, they end with "Is that right?" You repeat this part until they "get" why your complaints make sense from your perspective.

6. Then Person 2 (Listener) says, "I imagine that makes you feel..." This again, puts Person 2 in your shoes and forces them to consider the emotions you feel when x happens, like ignored, misunderstood, guilty, whatever. Again, they do not have to agree with your feelings, but they have to acknowledge that those are the feelings that you, in fact, have.

I think it's better to do with a mediator because it's really hard for an ADD person to do this. They are already not great at seeing things from another perspective, and the first few times I did this with my husband he couldn't see the distinction between acknowledging my experience and agreeing with it (i.e., that he can acknowledge my feelings and still be "right," which was for some reason very important to him). But it when we did it successfully, he had some major a-ha moments where he began to see how much of a burden I've been carrying and how much his ADD has been affecting me. And that has helped a lot.

Let me know if this works for you.

Mirror, mirror

Submitted by callmesusan on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 23:07

Ren, I love this! My husband was very recently diagnosed after 35 years of marriage. Feeling heard and understood has been such a frustration for me. In the past couple of years I found myself pleading that he understand he is not the only one suffering here. More than anything I just want to know I am heard that he understands how I feel. And all the while he has the need to defend himself, which, there you have it, makes it about him again. Then my frustration escalates. I am learning so much from all of the posters here, which is helping me understand his behaviors and how I have reacted to them in not so great ways. Your description of the mirroring communication is fabulous. I'm going to share it with him. Thanks.

I know its frustrating

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 16:43

I know its frustrating but try to remember that we ADDers are really bad at communicating. Or at least communicate differently than you.

When I say “You’re treating me like an idiot” what I’m trying to say is “This situation and your manner of speaking to me is making me feel like an idiot and I need you to reassure me that I am not stupid and that you don’t think that I am one. I am humilated and fustrated right now and need to talk about this later.”

I wish in the heat of a moment I could make my brain come up with something like that and make my mouth make the words, my voice say it in the correct tone and my body and face use the correct body language and facial expressions to get what I want to express properly. I wish it so much. But usually all I can come up with is “You think I’m an idiot! Leave me alone!”

Usually I might think of some better way to articulate myself much later. After the other person is angry with me and doesn’t want to hear it, or thinks its bull etc.

It is really freaking hard to say something like "Honey, I know it bothers you and I'm sorry, but turning my clothes right side out is just something I will never be able to do."

Also have you told her that it’s okay to tell you that she can’t do something or do you expect her to just know?

Has it occurred to you to prompt her or ask her if it’s something she can handle?

Would you really accept it if she said she can't do it? That it’s too hard for her? That she will forget more often than not? It seems most nonADDers don't accept "I'm sorry I can't do that" or "I will try but I can't guarantee I can do it every time"

That’s just not good enough.

There's whole threads on this board about how that's not good enough.

And if you know it’s something she struggles with because of her ADD and she probably can’t do something, why are you expecting her to humiliate herself by admitting it? You already know she can’t do it! And why are you mad at her for not being able to express it “the right way”, your way? For not using your communication style?

Have you both done couples therapy to improve how you communicate with each other?

Has your wife done any therapy to help her communicating skills? This can help so very much!

I agree with the person who

Submitted by megg on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 03:42

I agree with the person who said you are not controlling, but simply making a request. I have ADD and my husband rarely helped with housework and alternated between not commenting on my abilities to yelling at me for my ineptness with everything from forgetting his bread in the toaster and it being "too hard" ( he once threw the toast across the room) to yelling at me for taking out his clothes out of the dryer late because he would end up wearing wrinkled shirts to work, which made him feel embarassed. The humiliation of someone yelling at you for trivial things which also spread into every area of life, not just housework, was too much. I divorced him. I applaud you for being sensitive to your wife and suggest she start understanding herself better as I did, post divorce. I realized that the shame I felt for not doing things "right" caused me to take this verbal abuse. The book that opened my eyes was "Women with ADD" by Sari Solden. Your wife is definitely overreacting and getting defensive because of her own insecurities and shame. For me, at the point I am at now with accepting who I am, I would be okay with such a request but would need the other person to understand that I may forget to do the same thing next time and need gentle reminders and for the person to accept that it won't be done 100% of the time. Also, keep focusing on your wife's best qualities and make her feel good about them. Don't ever make the trivial stuff seem more important than the woman you fell in love with.

Focusing on the Positive

Submitted by Hoping4More on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 14:30

Thanks for your encouragement, Megg. My wife also reminds me she would like to hear more positive from me and less negative. And I want to do that. My difficulty is that my remarks tend to be tied to actions, and they tend to be in the moment. I am a person who lives in the present. I usually express what I am feeling and thinking NOW, in response to something I just saw, heard, felt. I'm not the type to say something like "Remember the other day when you did such and such. That was really sweet." Or whatever. So my dilemma is, as my wife becomes more and more withdrawn, negative, moddy, etc. and I see fewer and fewer of those things that I DO love about her - from what/where do I draw to mention something positive? How do I tell her I love her sense of humor when she hardly even laughs any more? (Though I did just tell her that when she make a humorous remark today in response to an email.) How do I say I love how kind and thoughtful she is when I hardly see her doing kind things for me anymore? How can I tell her I love that she is so resourceful when she is feeling so overwhelmed she is having melt-downs? I suppose when she goes on and on about something, I could say - I love your passion! And when she complements me I can tell her I love how she so easily expresses her love. (Thought I must say I find it hard to take her compliments sometimes because they are hardly ever tied to any action on my part.) Anyway, thanks for your post, and I will continue to look for and remark on the positive.

Still an Issue

Submitted by Hoping4More on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 18:36

So, nearly 3 months later and this is still an issue. Sometimes I really would like to just make a simple request, not enter into negotiations. Or just suggest something or ask something, not demand she do something, not criticizing her for the way she is doing is, but just suggest an alternative, that she is free to say yes or no to. Perhaps I see her struggling to do something and I have figured out a way that would take less effort that I just want to share with her. Or maybe I have some knowledge that she doesn't that I want to share with her. She often does this with me, for example, when it comes to technology. "You know" she will say "if you do it this way it will be easier." Or faster, or whatever. I listen to what she has to say, and then decide if I want to continue to do it the way I have been doing it, or learn to do it the way she suggests. I don't take what she says as a criticism. I take it as a suggestion, and nothing more. (Although I'm starting to take her frequent "suggestions" that I use Outlook or some such program for my schedule to be a criticism. Not really - but if I were to suggest something over and over like that to my wife - she would consider it criticism AND nagging.)

I still haven't figured out how to share information like that with my wife in a way that she doesn't hear it as criticism. I have tried "Honey. I have a suggestion I would like to make and it really is a suggestion, not a criticism. And it's totally up to you to continue to do it the way you have been doing it or not. I really am not meaning it as a criticism of the way you are doing it." And her body language and tone of voice when she says "What?" communicate to me that she is thinking something like "Yea, you say it's not a criticiam, but I know it really is." It's really frustrating when I just want to make a friendly suggestion and it turns into something adversarial.

Have you tired telling her

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 20:20

Have you tired telling her that if she needs help you'll be happy to give her a hand and then backing off? Do you think that would work? How about telling her "You can do it! I know you can! But I do know another way if you are interested."

I tend to be the "No, let me do it!" kind of girl. Its how I learn best, by doing it myself. I get fustrated and embarasssed having someone else show me how to do something or do it for me. But I know my hubby loves me so if I have to I will, after trying everything else, ask him for help.

Does she have lots of self esteem isssues?

Do you try to help her alot, like more than 3 times a day? Do you try to help her with simple stuff, things that would make a person feel stupid for needing help with? Can she do something but just in her own way or do you need to have her do things a certain way? Are you a fixer or a helper?

Also there are compliments for doing something "You did this very well!" and then there are compliments for being who you are "You are such a trooper" "You are so brave" "You are funny/loving/sweet/thoughtful" that don't have to be tied to something a person did today or yesterday but just a trait they have that you'd like to see more of.

I Agree

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 14:19

Miss B, I agree that there is a difference between compliments for doing something and compliments for being someone or having a certain quality. I get that. For me, I notice the quality through action. When my wife does something nice for me, I experience her as a kind person, and am then likely to remark on her kindness. I will pay more attention to how I do that, though - whether I tell her I appreciate that she did something kind or whether I tell her I love it that she is such a kind person. Thanks for pointing out that subtlety.

But compliments not tied to actions tend to feel shallow to me. It's interesting that you suggest it, though. My wife frequently compliments me or tells me she admires me for certain qualities I have, not tied to any particular action. And my reaction when she does is that it feels to me like the compliment just came out of left field. And it feels like it doesn't have much substance to it since there's nothing to "attach" it to. And so, the compliment is sort of "wasted" on me. I almost wish she wouldn't make them. Because if she says something like "You have such a great sense of humor" and I haven't made her laugh in a long time - it almost feels false to me. I am hearing, though, that she would probably love it if I just complimented her out of the blue. Something I never really considered doing. Hmmm . . . maybe you are on to something. :-)

Think of it like this: Your

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 15:30

Think of it like this: Your brains work differently so compliments work differently for you. If you both tried to accept each other's compliment styles, instead of not being happy with each others styles, wouldn't it be better? You can do BOTH, you can compliment each other for actions and for being.

Besides ... how do you DO beautiful?

Sometimes I complement my hubby or my kids for doing something I wish they did more often or were more of. Like to encourage them. Maybe this is one reason why your wife's compliments "come out of left field" ?

Going on and on is an ADD trait, my son drives us up the wall with it sometimes. I do it sometimes too. I am trying to share in my own way. It hurts to get slapped down and told to stop talking and it can be hard to stop.

What if you guys had a singal or some kind phrase to encourage her to get to the point? What if you just let her run out of steam once in a while? My hubby will say "Wow you're really excited about this" and sorta smile at me and I know what he means. So I'll try to sum up that yes this is very interesting to me! And work to make my brain and mouth stop lol

Do you ever chat together?

Submitted by callmesusan on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 00:33

Hoping4more, When I read your posts something sounds so familiar to me... I wonder about the state of your relationship in general. Do you two spend quality time together in which you feel connected to one another? Or is your relationship consumed with struggle that leaves you both just surviving? I have some ideas but don't want to presume anything about your situation.

Need to connect

Submitted by callmesusan on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 02:02

Hoping4more, I just read your "Still an Issue" post. I can so relate you your words and the feeling I get when I read them. I understand how frustrating the defensiveness is to deal with. My mantra has been, "We are on the same team! I love you! I am not the enemy!" My 35 year marriage had deteriorated to the point that practically every interaction was stressful. I felt completely alone and lonely and with overwhelming responsibility. My husband has had practically every symptom of ADD that I have read about on this site that reduced him to an unhappy, suicidally depressed, anxious, irritable, frustrated, no fun wreck. Nearly every interaction was resulting in some degree of conflict with him becoming defensive and me ready to run away in unbelievable frustration or worse. Life was not fun. I would wonder how much longer I would have to do it (life). We were both miserable.

About 6 weeks ago we entered couples counseling, something we've done many times for all the same issues. (It was in this counseling that the ADD was finally detected.) Long story short, we had lost all intimate connection with each other. And I mean all. We needed to begin to reconnect. Our first homework was to sit each day and look into each other's faces for one minute. And we were supposed to do something fun--not a movie and we could not talk about any issues or problems while we were having our fun.

Throughout the weeks our assignments were varied according to the counseling session and our emotional needs that week. It was hit and miss but we kept coming back together and trying. After several weeks, I was at the end of my rope. I was like a dehydrated person who was being offered sips of water when I really needed and IV! I felt like my husband was working at it but that he was not fully in the game. The connection just wasn't happening. Just when I was ready to give up--I wanted away from the frustration and pain--my husband got it. He laid down his sword. He turned toward me. I'm still not sure what the impulse was, but when that happened, we had an awesome week. I was finally getting a big drink of water.

We just finished a second week that went very, very well. We are spending time together, looking at each other, holding each other, playing together, laughing together, and really talking. We talk about ways that we can keep this going. And the more we talk, the more we have to talk about with each other (stuff that is fun and interesting to talk about and not just problems.) AND the elephant in the room that has gotten in our way all these years finally has a name: ADD. It has some quirks, too, that we now can talk about, with relief, and figure out how to manage effectively. I am observing my behaviors in response to the ADD behaviors and where I need to do some work to be more healthy and effective as a partner.

I'm sorry to go on about my story, but it sounds like maybe you and your wife have stopped connecting somewhere along the line, too, except in conflict.

I hope there is maybe one word here that comforts you.

Looking into each others eyes

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 14:25

Looking into each others eyes in silence sounds like it would be a great thing for me and my wife, since so many of our tensions and conflicts are around words. And just having fun and not talking about any issues sounds good too. But even when we agree not to talk about our "issues" she often ends up bringing up work issues - and going on and on about something, or talking about how excited she is about some new technology, etc. where she ends up going on and on and on. And the more she goes on and on, the more I end up feeling like I am more and more unnecessary to the conversation. Sigh . . . .

So - silence sounds good to me. :-)

the point...

Submitted by callmesusan on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 09:41

Hoping4more, I forgot to make my point... Perhaps if you and your wife were to get the connection going again in your relationship in general, the simple requests you ask may not be so threatening to your wife. Keep us posted. This is a common issue for all of us I bet.

We Are Trying That

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 14:06

Thanks for your suggestion - it is definitely a good one. And we are trying that. Scheduling and spending time together just having fun. But it's hard for us. Because inevitibly one of us wants to start processing something - often, my wife, I think, but I'm not positive about that. I'll have to pay more attention. And so what tends to happen is, what starts out as fun time together deteriorates, sometimes quickly, into a disagreement, or worse.

it's hard to have fun...

Submitted by callmesusan on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 18:30

Hoping4more, I know how hard it is to accomplish having fun together. I have caught myself on several occasions about to bring up a worrisome/problematic subject while we are supposed to be having fun. Fortunately, I recognized it and stopped myself. It pointed out to me one way in which I have contributed to the sabbotage of our relationship by allowing problems to intrude at any time.

The other thing is my husband and I both have hobbies. He talks about his incessantly. Ugh. We have chatted about this in and out of counseling. I suggested to him that he would not like it very much if I went on endlessly about yarn and the finer points of knitting. He agreed. I now allow a bit of it, as anyone would for a loved one, and then I tell him that I need to change the subject. He is good natured about it. So, I understand how it is when your wife gets going about tech stuff. Have you two ever talked about it?

I think the important thing is to take baby steps together toward the common goal of reconnection. Does your wife recognize a general lack of connectedness in the relationship?

Not Sure

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sun, 06/20/2010 - 09:08

Hi Knittergirl,

I'm not sure if my wife recognizes the lack of connectedness or if it is just me feeling it. I have mantioned it and since we are scheduling time together, I assume she is feeling it too. Re: the talking. We have talked about that and together come up with some things I might say, such as "Bring it in for a landing, hon" or "Is there going to be a test on this?" - both her suggestions, and also "Wow, you are really passionate about this" - something I came up with. I find it hard to use these, because I have to interrupt her to do it, something I don't really like to do. But I will sometimes. And when I do, sometimes she gets it, sometimes ahe says "OK" and just keeps talking, and sometimes she gets miffed and says, in a pissed off tone, something like "I was just about to finish!" She knows talking too much is an issue and she wants to work on it, but we haven't come up yet with a good way for me to indicate to her that she is talking too much without her feeling I am judging her. She suggested we get a timer and that I let her know when a certain amount of time is up, so that she can get a feel for what one minute, or two minutes, are. But she didn't get the timer. So I got the timers, and she took them to work and uses them when she is on the phone with people (I think.) I was just thinking yesterday that I should ask her to bring one home so I can use it with her sometimes.

Good for you guys. I'm glad

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Sun, 06/20/2010 - 12:04

Good for you guys. I'm glad she is willing to work on this with you! Do you have a digital watch? It might be easier to time things with something already on your wrist than running around looking for the egg timer.

talking

Submitted by callmesusan on Sun, 06/20/2010 - 12:12

Hoping4more, You sound like a dear that you don't like to interrupt your wife when she is excited about her subject. When the ADD was diagnosed a few weeks ago and I did some educating of myself, I learned that talking incessantly can be a manifestation of ADD. I mentioned this to my husband in a loving/light hearted way like, "no wonder ...!" I thought this might be related to difficulty reading other people's cues, such as when my eyes glaze over when he goes on and on. He said that he sees the cues but, "I can't stop!" Then we chuckled, both having some understanding.

I am reading Married to Distraction. Have you read it? If not, let me say it is a lovingly written book that has a lot of information and insight. Some of our connecting time together has been to read a chapter to one another. When one of us particularly connects with the reading, we will discuss the meaning and how it applies to our relationship. We do this in bed when we can be snuggled up. It has been an opportunity for reconnecting. Anyway, from reading the book I realize just how much we RARELY spent quality time together in which we were focused on each other or persuing a common interest. I now believe that our relationship needs and deserves daily attention. Attention on us, without distraction.

I am a very lucky woman in that my husband is very willing and open to all of this. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to go on the way we were. I was too starved for attention and affection and too overwhelmed with all the responsibilities that fell to me. I totally understand the symbolic meaning of the inside out laundry. For me, at least right now, the increased time we are spending together is helping tremendously. I don't feel so alone, lonely, and overburdened.

Married to Distraction

Submitted by Hoping4More on Sun, 06/20/2010 - 14:48

We did buy that book and started reading it together, but my wife became very discouraged/sullen as we read it, since she felt that all the "distraction" behaviors that were being discussed were behaviors she exhibited. She would also comment, when the book asked "Do you sometimes feel that . . ." that she didn't tend to feel that way, whereas I most usually did feel that way - "that way" being something "negative" as a result of the other behaving in ways that were distracted. So we put the book aside for the time being. I'm not sure she is ready to pick it up again yet. But I hope we will at some point.

I understand

Submitted by callmesusan on Sun, 06/20/2010 - 19:49

Hoping4more, I understand about her feeling that the issues in the book cast an unfavorable light on her ADDness. Something I have been doing, as I'm sure you already have/do because you sound quite empathetic, compassionate, and willing, is to say, "Something I am observing about myself is .... (example: I am noticing I get impatient quickly for example ..., and I want to work on that. I don't think it is a good thing for me. OR Several times I have caught myself about to bring up a worry of mine when we are on an outing. I never realised how often I do that. I'm working on that because it isn't good for me or us.) When I have done this it was genuine. This process is teaching me some things about myself. But as a byproduct, pointing out things about myself that I feel are undesireable or unhealthy might underscore that we both have areas that can be improved on to move the relationship along. This being said, I need my partner to be paying attention enough to hear it! For it is in itself an effort to connect. There's the rub...

I am new to this site...

Submitted by LaRoyal on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 08:37

I am new to this site... thank you thank you all for making me not feel so alone!

Knittergirl, You have given me hope, better than most I've seen here so far.

Hoping4More, I am where you are/were, to the point where I had to preface each question and request with "Now please don't yell at me, Ok, I'm only going to ask a question". He would have behaved the same way, re: the inside out clothes, no matter how the question was phrased, once it became a trigger point. I was struggling with a decision to leave him, but I just couldn't face the prospect of watching him flounder on his own. Then, I found an article in the newspaper that lead me to this site... Eureka. ADHD. It all made sense.

We'd been going to a counselor, and she'd given up on him (he was lying during counseling!). So I went by myself to tell her about this, she agreed with my diagnosis, and we created a strategy for me to tell him about his possible ADHD without causing another huge battle. Well, it worked, a light went on, and he is now in the process of mulling it over.

I long for a time when I'm not full of joy just because he's out of the house! That some day he will be able to clean up his huge mess in the basement and actually find his bills, tax receipts, invoices, computer programs, keys, ski boots and all the other stuff that I seem to have misplaced for him. To take some responsibility off my shoulders since I am now the main income earner, cook, bottle washer, bill payer and general organizer of our lives. Sigh. I want to have some fun again, that's not only on his terms. Acknowledgement for my efforts, for the gifts and treats I always bring that are never reciprocated, for the secure home life I make for him, for his much improved relationship with his daughters.

I am going to order that book! I hope we will be able to read the chapters to each other and discuss everything! I want it to work, so badly, but I'm also fed up after 8 years of marriage, 4 of them on a nightmare yoyo. I hope I can last long enough to witness some improvement.

Wish me luck, tell me more.... I'm like a sponge now, feeling stronger by the minute!

Probaby not very helpful

Submitted by SherriW13 on Wed, 08/25/2010 - 18:32

Probaby not very helpful advice, but something such as this..I wouldn't even ask. My husband does this..and honestly I either turn them right side out, if I'm feeling a little extra energetic, or I fold them inside out and put them away just like he took them off...socks included. I take extra care with his work clothes, but his other stuff just gets the "whatever mood I'm in" treatment. I KNOW he would never be able to remember "ok, I need to take my clothes off right side out" IF I could even get this topic open for discussion without him feeling like I needed to get a life for complaining about it. (yes, he's actually said that to me before...and he's not typically mean or snide that way)

Just a battle I never felt like fighting...but then again, we have had so many other MUCH WORSE issues that this one didn't feel important enough for me. Most likely, the simple fact that you're 'scared' to ask, afraid of how you will be received, is probably a clue that you might be facing either a huge battle or a fight if you ask. Sometimes we truly have to ask ourselves if it's worth it. Ya know?

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