My wife has previously accepted that Orlov's book described a lot of what is happening in our marriage and even told our kids that she, like them, has ADHD.
Then she went to a psychiatric nurse and "only answered the questions she asked" and was told she is depressed, not ADHD.
I kept imploring her to tell the nurse about all the symptoms I have noticed. She started seeing a new nurse and kept forgetting to discuss the symptoms--just answering the questions she was asked.
Finally, she said she discussed ONE of the symptoms--ignoring me when an interesting stranger appears to the extent that she does not recall I was there. She reports that the nurse said that it was not ADHD because it only happens "some of the time." It would happen "all of the time" if it were ADHD.
I asked my wife why she told the nurse it was "some of the time." She denied that she said that--the nurse did. Well, where did the nurse get that idea? No response.
But there are many more symptoms, and they happen quite often. We just finished a long trip that she has been pressing me to take for almost 10 years, despite our financial problems. We were able to do so because her mother left her some money. During the trip, she repeatedly interrupted me and then claimed that either 1) we both started talking at the same time or 2) she stopped as soon as she realized I was speaking. Neither of these claims were true. She also became hyperfocused on moving through the crowds at a theme park, and completely forgetting about me and our ADHD 9-year-old. I could not keep up because I had to make sure our daughter did not get lost. I kept yelling for her to wait, and she kept resuming the hyperfocus and speeding off ahead of us. One time, she actually did lose our daughter while they were separate from me. I had to find her.
Yet, still, she says it is not ADHD and wants to know why it is so important to me that she get an ADHD diagnosis. I finally told her that maybe I it is so important to me because I want to MAKE EXCUSES for her behavior.
All these years, I have stressed that I would hope that we could at least stop discussing trip planning during the big trip. The big trip came, and she kept talking about planning for next time. I reminded her that I wanted a break from this. She kept up. The fact is that there are no other inheritances coming our way. I am feeling insecure at my job and I would like to find something more meaningful--but it would pay less and we need my current salary just to keep our heads above water, never mind spending thousands on another trip. Yet she soothes herself by telling me we can work something out for me to be able to take a pay cut. That just makes me feel invalidated.
God, I hate being the responsible one!
Your wife needs to get a consultation with a ADHD psychiatrist
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
As I recall Orlov's book insists that the ADHDer be responsible for accepting that ADHD treatment is needed and the ADHDer must create and follow a three-stage plan to manage their ADHD before meaningful change/improvement can be made. The non-ADHDer must identify and manage their own issues around how they've responded to ADHD symptoms in the past so as to recognize the ADHD 'symtom-response-response' dynamic that undermines marriages. Your wife needs to get a consultation with a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD diagnosis and treatment. A nurse just won't cut it. You should accompany her in the session with the psychiatrist to give your perspective on her symptoms as ADHDers have poor self-awareness. A qualified psychiatrist should welcome your participation.
ADHD Psychiatrist
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Agreed.
I feel your frustration....
Submitted by c ur self on
I want offer up any "your wife should's here"....Because you already know what she should do...LOL....And you know like I do, what she is going to do in those situations, if she is breathing....But I will just say, I quit the theme park circuit w/ her because of the very things you experienced....(I know it's more difficult w/ small children like you have, but, I suggest you still put boundaries in place for the kids safety, and for your ability to enjoy your selves...(Things like the kids will always stay with me, and the minute you run off chasing a dream, instead of responsibly staying with the rest of the family. We want hunt you, and we will continue enjoying ourselves, like you don't exist, because the moment you placed yourself above your family you didn't)...As long as excuses and concessions are made for her, she will never discipline her life....Look what's happening to you and the kids w/o boundaries (continually drug into her chaos)....Boundaries are the only way to limit her intrusive behaviors that are dumping on you and the kids lives....And that isn't something you have to depend on her to do, or to tell any Dr or Nurse, it's solely in your hands....
c
Do we exist in their minds?
Submitted by jennalemone on
"We won't hunt you, and we will continue enjoying ourselves, like you don't exist, because the moment you placed yourself above your family you didn't"
I read this over and over. This mindset for me is what really is changing things. My perspective WAS that I had to include H and that it was up to me to make him WANT to be a responsible member in the family and crying because he kept acting like an independent single guy. Frustrating! Slowly, I am permitting myself to accept that H has been placing himself above our family all these years, and then verbally turning things around making himself out to be the poor unwanted puppy. NOW I am getting it into my brain that by placing his needs and enjoyment above our needs and enjoyment, we did not exist to him. I can stop feeling guilty about our family not being a cohesive group. I am still somewhat ashamed, but not guilt, to be married to him - as though I am married alone, as though I was a single parent. But I will work to make my life and relationships stronger and better and not keep trying to drag H into the marriage. Thanks, C.
The acceptance of strangers
Submitted by jennalemone on
We have had violent storms here. H went up to all the workers...electric company, county tree debris clearers, etc. and made small talk with them and even went up to them to shake their hands and introduce himself. H didn't take into consideration that they had more to do with their time than keep him company. This happens with waitresses, sales clerks, ANYONE. I have the habit now to keep walking when H starts a conversation with strangers. Because he will keep talking until the other person must make excuses and part his company. I have gotten into the car and driven off....then he laughs and criticizes me for leaving him. This used to happen A LOT. Now it doesn't bother me . We have cell phones and I go on my way, while he talks the other person's head off. He doesn't realize he is taking up the stranger's time. It is like he is playing a game of "who is the more congenial person"...and he must always win by yakking way too long. Then when we are together he seems to have nothing to say.
'...he seems to have nothing to say.' cuz u r 'the support team'
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
'Then when we are together he seems to have nothing to say.'
I believe this is because you've been relegated to 'the support team' that exists to make the ADHDer's life easier and to 'keep things on track' with little or no effort from the ADHDer. 'New' people are exciting and available to experience through conversation how clever and all-around-wonderful the ADHDer is.
Yup. C, the world is a stage
Submitted by jennalemone on
H revels in his demonstrations of how he wants the audience to think of him - and laugh and clap for him. I WAS the stagehand. I am walking away from the job of propping him up. He will keep on acting no matter what I do. I do not exist to him except as a prop. I have been watching Hoarders on Hulu and some of the people on the show are letting me see how the hoarder really does not think of anything but their own childish collecting and protecting their own stuff to the detriment of others in the house. They also each seem to feel that they have special personality and believe themselves to be quite charming. H has areas of the house where his stuff is hoarded. If not for me, our house would look like the Hoarder's. This is embarrassing to me. It is also a lot of work to keep his "stuff" from taking over the rooms in the house. It has the effect on me to be super diligent about cleaning and organizing an ever re-chaotic home. That, in itself, is exhausting and crazy-making.
I suggest renting a 'chipper'
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
I suggest renting a 'chipper' so you can 'process' the piles with extreme prejudice when they ooze into areas previously boundary-declared 'stuff free' zones. It won't solve your problem but I'm sure it would be satisfying.
Your first sentence struck a
Submitted by dvance on
Your first sentence struck a chord with me. My DH has a very odd, skewed view of himself. He sees himself as this savior/martyr who is more creative and tough than those around him. All the evidence is to the contrary however. He has been fired from his last three jobs after three years, each of them three years almost to the day, and yet upon starting each of those jobs he said some version of THANK GOD they hired me, that department was a MESS, the last guy who did my job was useless and when he was let go I heard some version of "that company is going to go under without me". Um...not so much... If there is a simple and efficient way to accomplish a task, I can assure you DH will choose the exact opposite way. Here's an example: we have a rabbit. The rabbit has the run of our house, he is litter trained. When I was having all kinds of back problems I couldn't clean the cage or little box so DH did it and boy was it a project. Prior to that, I could knock out that job in 30 minutes. DH has to rearrange the kitchen, moan and groan-it is a big hassle. Now that I am better (had surgery) I can dump out that little box and refill it in under 20 minutes. He too has more stuff than one human needs: his closet is a disaster, our parking space in the communal apartment garage has stuff behind his car, his car is packed in the back AND I pay $178 a month for a storage locker for his stuff. It is ridiculous. I put his mail on his dresser, even junk mail addressed to him because he gets mad if I toss mail addressed to him and he saves it. I find it stuffed in his dressed drawers. Who saves junk mail??? I have also watched him open junk mail and read over every word, very seriously study it before tossing it. Who has that kind of time??? The end table next to his favorite chair has two iPads (one is not enough), his glasses, two plug-in cords and many paper towels folded in half that he puts under the many cups that collect on that table too. We have coasters, but no-folded paper towels. If I try to throw them away when he is around he gets mad. It looks like a rummage sale booth. So odd. If you would ask him what his hobbies are he would tell you art and archery and yet he has not done either in years. He used to go down to the beach with a metal detector and collect stuff. All worthless but he has tupperware containers of the worthless stuff he collected. Why??? All part of this view of himself as this quirky, interesting guy. So bizarre. He was in the military many years ago--he was discharged 16 years ago and never made it past Staff Sergeant but talks about it like it was yesterday. I understand that any military experience is life changing and life shaping, but his current level of stamina does not match that of a military man, I can tell you that. Every day there is some ailment or complaint, mostly headaches, but any suggestions as to how to fix them are brushed off. Fake toughness. I have stopped asking. For the past four nights he has slept on the couch. I have no idea why. We have not fought, nothing has happened. I am not asking. Every once in a while he does this, I don't ask any more.
Don't open my mail...Same here;)
Submitted by c ur self on
(Who saves junk mail???)
I know someone ;), and old sales receipts, and about everything ;).... ha ha ha!
It's the I can't let go of trash disease....
c
Good morning Jenna;)
Submitted by c ur self on
I think we just get caught up wanting what isn't there so bad, it dominates our thinking to the point we forget to live (our lives)....We have this idea of what marriage should be like, and we continually press for it, even though w/ our spouses it's not going to happen or has short lived moments at best....
It reminds me of what adhdMomof2 said recently, about how she views her husband's actions towards her.."Like she is his Project"...I don't want a project, I want a person who chooses me, who chooses their vows, and who is happy doing it, without me pointing it out (or even feeling like I need to)....So I'm just praying to experience the peace that comes from God, and trying to take one day at a time, being a kind husband, but, making my choices to breathe and live...To pursue the little things that are right for me, and it's fine if I'm alone....I'm really never alone....
Blessings dear Jenna!
c
Update
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
After me calling her on losing my flex spending card and her insurance card, I was able to get her to commit seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD with my input.
We had a big blowout yesterday when visting friends. As noted above, I have told her that I don't see how we could afford for me to change jobs, take a paycut, and lose my current job security (union/contract). Over dinner at the friends' house (with our kids) she said something that would cost a lot--it may have been about another expensive trip. The topic of my not being able to change jobs had already come up, and I said something like, "Let's make sure dad can't ever leave this job." After dinner, we went out to the back yard and the female friend was there. My wife started asking me about putting in a hot tub in our back yard (keep in mind also that there wasn't even a hot tub at their place). I had enough and reminded her that 1) pushing for more and more makes me feel really unappreciated 2) her mother isn't going to die again and leave us more money and 3) I certainly won't be able to ever change jobs if she keeps finding new expenses and is not satisfied with anything once she gets it. Her response was that she was doing this FOR ME--If I am going to stay at this job I dislike, we should spend money on things we enjoy. But I am staying at this job because we really need the money for expenses we already have. I am trying to bail the water out of a sinking ship, and she thinks I will find it more pleasant if we drill a few more holes? I also pointed out that I had told her just last week what she could say that would make me feel better--"Gee, it sucks that you have to stay at this job and you can't do what you really want. But I really appreciate the sacrifices you are making for the kids and me." Not, "Gee, here's something I want and we can't afford!"
I have felt unappreciated for a long time. Our first child was born just after I finished grad school and started my first full-time teaching position. I was really proud that I was using my degree and earning a larger salary than I ever had before. I felt terrible, however, because she started crying and standing in my way while I was trying to leave for work--because she couldn't afford to be a stay-at-home mom like her friend! My success turned out to be a huge disappointment for her. Now, I am making a lot more money, but doing something I find unfulfilling in a work environment that has been deteriorating with new management. And I still have to hear about what we can't afford. She makes about half my salary, by the way, and is working in the field she wants to be in.
My birthday this year happened during the middle of the expensive vacation we took. She said that she was going to buy something for me in one of the theme park gift shops, but they did not have what she was looking for. So I got a nice coffee mug. She also said that she had gifts for me from the kids at home. A few days after we got back, I reminded her that she said she had gifts from the kids. She acknowledged this, but I have yet to receive any of them. I had also reminded her that when I got her a gift certificate for a massage as PART of her birthday present, she said it was wonderful and she really wanted to get me one. So she did get that for me over the weekend. (I put a lot of thoughts into her gifts and chose things that I know mean a lot to her. I often feel, however, that the gifts she gives me are pretty impersonal. Or sometimes she gives me things that she wants, like the time that she surprised me with a day at the Renaissance Fair--even though I had told her many times over the years that I was not interested in the Renaissance Fair.
Gift Giving is a one way street
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Just wanted to chime in on the topic of gift giving you touched on in your third paragraph. Holidays were a huge part of family life growing up for me. The presents were never expensive in our blue-collar family, just thoughtful. I have always loved giving and getting them. My husband wants no part of this... or I suppose more accurately, it is not important to him and though I have expressed it is important to me, it is something he can't/won't participate in. It took me several years to accept this. I kept giving him thoughtful gifts for holidays birthdays and I was lucky if he remembered my birthday at all.
What upsets me more is that with our daughter in the picture, he takes no interest in making occasions special for her. Birthday gifts and parties are all my responsibility. Christmas, too (including decorating the house and hosting). It makes me sad that he will sit there on Christmas morning absorbed in the laptop on his stomach while our daughter opens gifts he doesn't even know about.
Sorry... I know this was off-topic to the original post, but I had to vent when I saw you mention it. Congrats on getting your wife to see a a specialist! That is huge. I wish you well on the spending management! :)
Your frustrations are self inflicted; just like mine!
Submitted by c ur self on
"Let's make sure dad can't ever leave this job." After dinner, we went out to the back yard and the female friend was there. My wife started asking me about putting in a hot tub in our back yard (keep in mind also that there wasn't even a hot tub at their place). I had enough and reminded her that 1) pushing for more and more makes me feel really unappreciated 2) her mother isn't going to die again and leave us more money and 3) I certainly won't be able to ever change jobs if she keeps finding new expenses and is not satisfied with anything once she gets it. Her response was that she was doing this FOR ME--If I am going to stay at this job I dislike, we should spend money on things we enjoy. But I am staying at this job because we really need the money for expenses we already have. I am trying to bail the water out of a sinking ship, and she thinks I will find it more pleasant if we drill a few more holes? )
You are talking sanity (rationally pointing out) and life discipline, to someone who can't hear you...(the concept of discipline isn't living in her) If you and I (and many more here) can't learn to recognize these selfish ME statements (use you up w/ out a thought) smile, shake our heads, and walk away completely ignoring their thoughtless (the only kind they are capable of) comments, then we will never live with them peacefully....
I suggest to you, the same thing I'm telling myself and putting into practice...Stop verbally pointing out or responding to things that are selfish and unwise in nature.....It's who they are dude, lol.......What good does it do, to get mad and lecture our adult family members, for just acting out who they are??
c
It's difficult to practice this
Submitted by adhd32 on
C, this is the best advice, yet so difficult to practice. Pointing out their behavior is always a recipe for defensive arguments.
It took me a very long time to realize this and an even longer time still to not to react to this type of situation. Your advice to walk away ignoring their runaway thoughts is the only way to avoid the verbal abuse. Do not respond at all. Do not even nod yes just to be polite and indicate you are listening, just walk away. If you are captive in a social situation and things get awkward and you feel as though you must respond say, "I'll have to think about it".
Many times H will pick a time with others around to start sharing his big ideas in the hopes that I will be forced to agree simply because he has witnesses and he knows I will not start trouble. Now, when I see where the conversation is going I excuse myself and find another conversation or step away and get some air. Historically he has not followed through on these projects or ideas because the steps to be taken in order to even prepare for the project become overwhelming and the idea dies at the party.
Historically he has not followed through...
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
But you must fear finding all your savings gone one day after he does attempt to start implementing a new project.
No Access....
Submitted by c ur self on
You can't allow someone you can't trust to have access to your savings....
Yes and No
Submitted by adhd32 on
It would be a concern if he actually had the ability to get moving on something. I think he use these social events as a recruitment opportunity for help with the projects in his head
He is an impulsive buyer so separate checking since day one and savings set up so that is inconvenient and too complicated for him to access have helped avoid financial ruin.
Sometimes the ADHD-genie works in your favor.
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Congratulations on good financial defense. Sometimes the ADHD-genie works in your favor.
Lots of idea's and wants, no discipline to follow through....
Submitted by c ur self on
This is the same here also 32, but, I've learned to handle it differently....If I tell you (commit) I'm going to take you out for dinner and a movie, at 6:00 pm, you should be ready ;)...But as you know not everyone who voices (I want us to go here or there, or do this are that, is capable of putting legs on those ideas....
Just another one of my big mistakes over the years, was believing she was capable of disciplining her life to do what she said...I've wasted many hours of my life only to hear later...I'm sorry, I forgot, Or I'm sorry I just couldn't get up, Or, I lost track of time, Or, something shinier came along....SO what was the effects of me judging her to be able to follow through (counting on it) ??
I was frustrated and angry, and she was actually sorry....Do you see the picture??.....I was angry at someone I loved, because of her inability to follow through and keep her word....I was placing expectations on her to be someone she wasn't ever going to be.....Someone who would discipline their life to match their wants, idea's and commitments.....So, who suffers in this dynamic....We both did, personally, and the marriage...So everyone suffers, (children to if they have to be subjected to the dialog that usually follows)
It's just better for me to SEE the big picture and engage her only in relaxed moments, and be wise enough to know what she is and isn't capable of (based her actions, never her words).... Except her reality, and never use my thinking to decide what that should be. Since I've adopted this stance we have had many more peaceful days....She may pout a bit, when she can't get me to buy in to her big idea's...When I just say show me....But, in the end when she couldn't make it happen, my emotions are in tact, (Im not lecturing) and we can enjoy each other's company...
c
PS, the social setting thing, same here also, I too, just walk away...It's really kind of embarrassing for her, when our children or friends look at my face and realize what she is saying is news to me also....lol....Since most of our friends and our married children know how to respect and share w/ each other....
Walking away
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I have found that not reacting and walking away has had a bigger impact in uncomfortable situations with my boyfriend. Especially at his family functions.
adeleS...That's good....
Submitted by c ur self on
We want the impact....Impact is good..It means your walking away is forcing Ownership or at least awareness...Something most filter-less concession seekers do not like...lol....
c
gift giving difficulties.
Submitted by husband33 on
my wife has a very difficult time gifting.
just recently she got 5 items for her girlfriend's new baby that was 500% the budget charged on the grocery credit card (though she has her own$ and cards). she spent 5hrs at 10+ stores looking for a onesie while 5 people followed her and waited. and waited in sweltering heat. next day we all do 2hrs shopping just for her friend. 3rd day we do another 2hrs and 2 more items.
i called her out on her overspending, putting on grocery account, and keeping us hostage to her indecision.
she would not admit there was a problem. she would not return some of the items although she said she would. she would not offer to pay for any items on her own personal account (which are specifically funded for girlfriends gift and girls nifht out, spa day, hair coloring etc). she blames me when i pointed at an item to encourage her to make a decision, she just bought it so overspending was my fault.
total lack of self awareness, no follow through on promises, denial, blaming, difficulting making decisions, can't add up numbers.
for my birthday she gets me almost same shirt every year, usually wrong size and spends 30min of effort (and less $ than her girlfriend in this recent case).
realizing maybe the gifting process is stressful for her because it is truly difficult for her to think from others' perspective? also really hard for her to stay on budget AND keep track of time.
Your only hope is boundaries
Submitted by adhd32 on
Really, 3 days to shop for gifts that could easily be purchased on line? As long as you allow it to continue, she will overspend and take advantage of your time. I know it is difficult setting boundaries because arguing and blaming you is the only thing ADDers have when they feel the reigns being tightened. They will call you cheap, petty, you treat me like a child, etc and there is really no way to defend yourself. As long as you allow the overspending and are party to being dragged around looking for baby gifts this behavior will continue. Is there a reason your wife didn't just shop for baby gifts by herself or online? Unless your wife has some physical limitation that requires your presence you might insist that you stay home with the kids next time. Maybe you will have to firmly insist but if you don't want to be treated like a doormat you have to get up off the floor.