I've read numerous old post this morning, while having my coffee....(It's something that is good for me, it helps me stay centered and living in a mind of acceptance, by reaffirming the reality of living with a partner who is incapable of seeing themselves)...When you go back and read these posts, there is one very common theme....We don't understand their thinking (or lack of it)...And no matter what problem's we are enduring (no help in the house, financial, withholding their bodies, angry outburst, sexual immorality, can't hold a job, or want work) the outcome of trying to get them to discuss their actions, NEVER ends well....
So, what happens to us when we want accept they are incapable of change? And incapable of communicating their reality? (they just don't see it, and if they do, they want allow themselves to consider the effects on their spouses)....We suffer emotionally...We vent....We get angry and bitter...Our nervous systems break down... Would you like to stop this dynamic? I would.....Some of you have....I applaud you....
I've tried acceptance for a couple of years now....But, I backslide from time to time in a few area's that I feel trapped in....I've learned to do things alone, and I've learned to say No to being thoughtlessly used, I don't fall to manipulation attempts...I've slacked off on expectations for her to clean or cook or do anything differently...I've learned to listen better, no matter what she is saying....I don't have to respond to victim comments, but, she needs to know I care and feel empathy for her struggles...Even if they are mostly self inflicted due to selfishness and unwise decisions....I digress....I just wanted to point out the very common theme in this posts....
Where there is no ability for a person to see themselves, no ownership, and no ability to communicate their reality, when do we stop trying to verbally engage them?? Most of us sadly want accept this truth being lived out before us daily, and we continue at confront them verbally at our own peril.....A poster whom I think very highly of, asked her spouse why he did something so hurtful and destructive to her.....His answer was I DON'T KNOW!....And he didn't, was his is truth.....Heart and mind blindness is real....Fear and shame or real...I pray for all of us, who are stuck in this mind that want accept the reality of our spouses, and turn our attention onto a more peaceful lifestyle.....
It's a very thin line between love and acceptance....And hate and indifference....I just don't want to spend the rest of my life standing on the bank of life's ditch, screaming for my wife to get out...When she is choosing to be there, or is incapable of getting out....
Words can be powerful when heard...But or useless and hurtful when not....Are you being heard??
c
No I am not being heard.
Submitted by Libby on
No I am not being heard. Example is this morning he has a procrastinating last minute emergency. Sorry I booked a doctors appointment I can’t help you. Screaming rage that he wishes I would just get out of here. No concern as to why I’m gone f to the doctor...just sees himself.
Libby
Submitted by c ur self on
You did great, if more of us would handle it just like you did, we would force accountability....He was angry he couldn't use you to bale him out of his self-inflicted mess....Kudos to you!
c
Alienation of non-ADHD spouses, et. al.
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
It has been my unfortunate experience to experience my ADHD-wife's extraordinarily self-focused interactions during her self-initiated 'discussions' with our three teen sons and I over a variety of issues. She rages about how she has not been 'respected' and how Draconian punishments must occur for the offending party (in her mind anyway) to atone for these transgressions. This has occurred routinely for years. The boys give terse replies and that sends my wife into further rage at not getting the deep discussion she expects. I believe this dynamic has alienated the boys and I from her whereupon hearing 'We need to have a discussion about...' (in THAT tone) causes a deep sigh (and resentment) that 'Here we go again...' heightened by the near certainty that nothing positive (or often coherent) will be heard.
Has anyone else found that interaction with the ADHDer in their lives leads to alienation (verging on hopelessness)?
Will it get better, have experienced this
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Yes, my ADHD husband often talks about "not being respected" as well, and tended to dole out harsher punishment than was necessary, when our girls were young. I've often questioned him about anger issues that he doesn't SEE as "anger". I don't know what HE believes is an angry response, or attitude, but others have certainly mentioned this about him. Like many of the others here, with undertreated ADHD, he doesn't seem to be able to see himself like others do. He will deny BEING angry, but the body movements, tone of voice, words, and some actions speak differently. I don't know how to get him to understand this, and I did stop trying to, and withdrew from him quite a but emotiinally. I did that for self survival, which again, he doesn't understand BECAUSE he won't learn more about what ADHD does to him and us. We at present are having more issues in our relationship which TOTALLY hinges on communication, but it's so difficult to talk with him, since there is always this huge ADHD wall there. Having a marriage depends on BOTH people participating IN the relatiinship. But, with ADHD denial, there's a wall so defining, that it seems more like battles of "winners and losers", which is NOT what I want or what most of us want. We just want to live WELL with them, which is exhausting when it is so hard to seem to get to.
It does often seem hopeless when the person with ADHD won't take a firm grasp on their own condition, for whatever reasons. Sometimes, like with DH, I think it's fear. He is afraid he's going to be called a "mental case", if he looks too hard at ADHD. He does have mental illness in his family, and he's scared to death of it, much to his own detriment.
I hope your wife seeks help, for herself, and for all of you. Hope today's a better day.
Will it get better, have experienced this
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Yes, my ADHD husband often talks about "not being respected" as well, and tended to dole out harsher punishment than was necessary, when our girls were young. I've often questioned him about anger issues that he doesn't SEE as "anger". I don't know what HE believes is an angry response, or attitude, but others have certainly mentioned this about him. Like many of the others here, with undertreated ADHD, he doesn't seem to be able to see himself like others do. He will deny BEING angry, but the body movements, tone of voice, words, and some actions speak differently. I don't know how to get him to understand this, and I did stop trying to, and withdrew from him quite a but emotiinally. I did that for self survival, which again, he doesn't understand BECAUSE he won't learn more about what ADHD does to him and us. We at present are having more issues in our relationship which TOTALLY hinges on communication, but it's so difficult to talk with him, since there is always this huge ADHD wall there. Having a marriage depends on BOTH people participating IN the relatiinship. But, with ADHD denial, there's a wall so defining, that it seems more like battles of "winners and losers", which is NOT what I want or what most of us want. We just want to live WELL with them, which is exhausting when it is so hard to seem to get to.
It does often seem hopeless when the person with ADHD won't take a firm grasp on their own condition, for whatever reasons. Sometimes, like with DH, I think it's fear. He is afraid he's going to be called a "mental case", if he looks too hard at ADHD. He does have mental illness in his family, and he's scared to death of it, much to his own detriment.
I hope your wife seeks help, for herself, and for all of you. Hope today's a better day.
Sorry, tablet acting crazy.wont delete extras
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Sorry
I thought it showed you really meant it!
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
I thought it showed you really meant it!
WIGB....
Submitted by c ur self on
(extraordinarily self-focused interactions)
This is exactly why it is hard to have a calm exchange....Self focused, always the victim, and never able to see fault in her self....It's maddening trying to set patiently while this goes on....I hear you dude!
c
What causes this, though?
Submitted by shulk on
What causes this, though? What kind of biology or chemical issue causes this EXACT behavior is so many people? The EXACT behavior!
I don't know.....
Submitted by c ur self on
But it's real....My thoughts are because they know this inability exists, they turn defensive and defiant, to ward off being put in a very uncomfortable place (self behavior discussions) for them......And it's probably a very helpless feeling for them...Like being in geometry class, and your not getting it....And the teacher is asking you questions...and all you can give her is the deer in the head light look.....
I don't know....I know acceptance is key....Boundaries are key....And I know not to judge or try to think for her....That's not good...LOL....
c
C, this says it all so well
Submitted by jennalemone on
All the acceptance and disengagement and boundaries makes for a lonely life.
Jenna....
Submitted by c ur self on
Yep Jenna you are correct...But, the alternative (the intrusiveness and abuse we suffer not having boundaries, arguments w/ a mind that is in closed to self awareness) is much worse than loneliness...I can visit my kids and grand kids alone, My church family is use to me showing up for church and other functions alone much of the time...I have friends I can do things with...I've learned how to enjoy movies and other functions alone...I can do something about fellowship if I get lonely...
The best medicine for our spouse's behavioral awareness is to watch us live a happy healthy life....With them, or without them....One monkey don't stop no show!
And I've got you wonderful people to encourage me.....
c
too much time at home?
Submitted by husband33 on
one of the common themes may be that many of us have too much time on our hands, are predisposed to generosity, and are spending too much of our mind/energy/time/money on our ADHD spouse.
if we weren't constantly in the same house, trying to make our daily lives jive with a disabled spouse..if instead we traveled regularly and/or had an all-consuming hobbies and/or worked 60+ hours a week. maybe then we wouldn't be so consumed by the behaviors and words of our spouses because we would be carrying on without them.
we nonADHD that are venting here seem to be lonely, looking for reassurance, looking for human interaction that are "normal", frustrated about our home life.
one alternative might be to go out of the home, focus less time and energy on our partners, and redirect our generosity and love on new projects/work/people/hobbies. create and nurture some new relationships with solid folks who listen, who reciprocate, who follow through, who show up on time.....create art, create a big project outside the home, improve your game, start a book club...the more healthy human connections the better, we can fill the the void in our heart, our human need to be heard and appreciated by others, and not rely mostly on our partner.
Your last paragraph
Submitted by adhd32 on
The last paragraph is the only alternative if you want to stay in a relationship with an ADD partner. Make yourself happy with outside activities and friends. Leave the moaning and groaning at home. Do not be swayed by the complaining from spouse that you are seeking life's joy apart from the relationship. Less time at home and less focus on the spouse means they will have to take some control and responsibility of their own life. And the bonus is you won't have time to bail them out of their self-created, always the victim messes.
33 & 32,,,
Submitted by c ur self on
Excellent reminders to live, love and be content w/ OUR lives;)....33 just speaking from my own experience's, my own struggles of mind, having the right mix of being a loving responsible husband, (not selfish) but also learning to accept her reality, and play the hand I am dealt...Is where the struggle to do the right thing gets difficult..I think this is the real struggle for many of us here.....How do I accept her life style, interject and share when she is physically, mentally, and emotionally able for healthy marital engagement....Often times, I would step into situations that I shouldn't have, because of my own desires for what you stated here....My desire for human interaction on an intimate level....Only to find she is checked out and just not available, or stuck in a selfish mind (controlling) that is blind to the needs of others...
For me, I have found your suggestions half right....Enjoy my life and the things you have stated...But not at a level that is intentionally designed to get out of her presents....It's more than OK (IMO) to be a person who has a heart and mind that desires to Love and Share our blessings...To me it's admirable!...But most of us who are married to a spouse who lives in a mindset that doesn't show thankfulness, or take ownership of their behaviors...Who's desires in life or most always self-seeking....We (me for sure) just need to learn to calmly say no, and let that be it....If I have to get emotional in order to just say no to my spouse...Then that's really not her problem, it's mine...I've got a three year old grandson, I've got an 86 year old Dad w/ dementia....I have no problem calmly saying no to them, if no is warrantied...But my wife looks so normal!...LOL,LOL....I'm making light of this, but, in reality, I must believe what is observable with her, just like I do w/ my grandson and Dad....
I had this talk with my wife (of course her first instinct is most always negative, when it comes to the problems in our marriage,) a while back (3 or 4 months now I would guess)...I explained to her how she lives undisciplined in many area's, then is quick to ask me for favors to bale her out...It's been an awaking for her....She wouldn't admit it, but, I see it in her actions.....When I confronted her again recently about asking me for things (like stopping what ever I might be doing at any given time, to fix her a lunch for work, because she is so undisciplined, she will lay in there and listen to 45 minute's of her iphone alarming, hitting snooze, instead of getting up and being responsible) she emotionally blurted out, just say no, I'm fine w/ no, but don't lecture me...She is right as rain, It's like she was confessing she has no control to not seek to use me for her irresponsibility, but, she is fine w/ no, because once she consider's it a few minutes, she understand's her laziness and lack of discipline is the problem all along...Their not stupid by a long shot...They just nurture bad habits because it's easy, Especially w/ a spouse running interference for them....
The only way I would say we should get away from them to force accountability is when we haven't mastered calmly saying no...When we start seeing good changes in their responsibility levels, at that point, we can see that the effort we put in to say no, and stop the mothering is paying off....
c
Husband33... but, of course, you have children
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Husband33, I doubt you could ever bring yourself to routinely be away 60 hours per week because you know your children would then be exposed to an extremely high dose of ADHD-interaction. They are not equipped to handle it. (Nor are you but you know what I mean.) You have the burden of 'keeping the train on the tracks' for the family no matter what your wife does. It is not 'fair' (but it is still unavoidably true). I've lived the same frustration for 26 years (and 'no' it does not get easier.)
Husband33... but, of course, you have children
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Husband33, I doubt you could ever bring yourself to routinely be away 60 hours per week because you know your children would then be exposed to an extremely high dose of ADHD-interaction. They are not equipped to handle it. (Nor are you but you know what I mean.) You have the burden of 'keeping the train on the tracks' for the family no matter what your wife does. It is not 'fair' (but it is still unavoidably true). I've lived the same frustration for 26 years (and 'no' it does not get easier.)
Reading these posts saddens me.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
If I were married again, and doing almost everything separate from my partner, doing activities with my family and friends, hobbies and time alone .....
What would be the point in being married or living with someone? I spent the last 13 years living with a man who looked at me with contempt, like I was a piece of gum stuck to the bottom of his shoe. I vowed I would never get married again. Why feel lonely and alone in a marriage, when I can do that on my own. I'm not settling again.
Good points AdeleS
Submitted by c ur self on
(What would be the point in being married or living with someone?)...... Not much!.... LOL.....I can't answer for anyone else...But I'm not staying because of what she is or isn't doing, when it comes to what she vowed to be in my life....I'm staying because of what I vowed to be in hers....I don't have to answer for her actions, but, i do for mine....Settling? Life can be a cruel task master, when it comes to jumping into relationships because of our neediness, instead of wisdom...(many of us have a painful past to prove it)....When we turn a blind eye to a person's priorities, and get swept away by all the temporal things that are fleeting and can't last.....We get exactly what we asked for.....
c
AdeleS6845, I ask the same question ...
Submitted by pinkiemartini on
I am new into this world of living with someone with ADHD and in other posts I have shared more or less my story ... the majority of you have the opportunity to continue with your activities: go to work, have social contact, speak your own language, visit your family often ... my case adds an extra:moving abroad to another country who speak a different language ... that has add so much more stress to my own life and even when i try to do things on my own (like look for people with same interests like me or activities) we live in a small village where the opportunities are limited ... so limited that during the last 10 years, the population has dropped 15% and now they are making citizen meetings to discuss how to stop this .... believe me, that after 10 months of this life ... I don't picture my life like this anymore, no matter the vows and promises I made.
We both made vows and I only talk to what I promised and during this 10 months i have done that: support him and love him and more important, accept him .... it is really hard .. but in my situation I feel i have more an more things to defeat during my own adaptation process ... i honestly feel that timing is just wrong to live together. And maybe I am mean and probably a horrible person ... but i didn't leave my country to be in this situation in which I am now. I also have a lot of things to work on myself (thats why i say that the timing is wrong) but i haven't found a person around where I live that could help me and speak my won language .. that is why im considering to go back and work on that ... and also leave him on his own and see what is capable of do without me around ... sometimes i truly feel that i made more damage than help to him because of the way i care for him and trying always the best for him (of course, this was just before I found and read about what is really ADHD and found this forum and reading your experiences)
I respect and admire to all of you who honor the vows you do once .. but reading your experience, makes me feel sad and not positive about future ... I even have stopped thinking about having children because this is not the way I want to rise them or even have them .
I ask the same question ... have a partner but feeling like school roommates because he prefers to be on his own most of the time and sleep in his room for several days. Try to look for activities to do together (once I find some close to where we live) and he keeps saying no. In the beginning i dedicate time for cooking nice meals (considering my limited cooking habilities) in order to end up eating alone because he was tired and sleeps ... I have tried to ask him more about what he feels in order to understand him and it ended up in arguments like "why you dont understand me, why you ask so many questions" .. in one post i read that asking could be a good option and i tried but it turned out into a new fight for asking too much ...
and at the end, i understand that it doesnt matter how much support or love we have for them ... if they dont accept their situation, recognize it and work for it because they truly want it and it will requires a lot of effort and will, then nothing else will do. And i dont believe that a marriage is one in which you end up doing things alone ....i prefer live on my own ... and sadly, in my situation, this is what will happen soon.