If I’m going to find any happiness in this marriage at all, I have to find a way to lay down my anger. I don’t even like the word “forgive,” because it always evokes this feeling of him getting off without any consequences.
But I’ve done the analysis. Forgiving doesn’t mean there are no consequences. His consequences: not trying to do anything about his adhd or improving the marriage is that he keeps causing problems for us all and that he doesn’t have the good marriage he says he wants.
Forgiveness just means that I put down my anger so I can stop being the sole miserable one. I can find peace in my heart regardless of him. And I need to, because he’s taking a toll on my health in many ways.
But... HOW?! How do I do that when I know, that as they stand, he isn’t going to change. This is also my future.
The only way I can see forgiving, meaning laying down my anger, is to emotionally just separate even more. Maybe even grieve the man I thought I married. Like he’s dead. And somehow try to accept this different man in his place, the one who does not see or know how to put work into a relationship, regardless of whether it’s adhd distraction or selfish laziness.
I don’t know how to lay down anger over things that will continue on as they have before. Is healing possible when they just won’t DO anything?
This post has brought tears to my eyes...
Submitted by c ur self on
I don't think it's humanly possible to forgive at a level that can cause us to forfeit our lives in this world...I think the only way to experience that kind of healing and acceptance, (of our plight) is found in the person of the Christ....
As long as I viewed her day to day living (chaos, ugly outbursts, refusing to put any effort or energy into what she vowed to be in the marriage relationship, self-absorbed mind) as some how robbery to my "good" life....Then I suffered w/ anger, and bitterness.....
It took 6 months of being out of her presents, (separated) of reading good books, (Gary Chapman's Desperate Marriage, Gary Thomas's Sacred Marriage etc) and diligently praying for healing from my suffering...Eventually through much pray, and believing, God broke through to me.....He showed me that I really didn't want to let go of my anger and bitterness, (it had taken over my heart) it was my protection...It's what I was trusting in, sadly instead of him :(
It took 6 more months of thought and praying to understand what must happen for us to have any ability to abide together in any peaceful and healthy way....Boundaries, and two people respecting them...Do I fail at it many times....I'm human aren't I?
I have to keep my eyes off of her, and on Jesus....Or I fail....I forget what is truly and eternally important....
I'm attempting to point out only her good qualities...Even though most of them do not relate to being a wife...It seems the more I do that, the more she is drawn to me....(In a good way;).....
((((()))) Tight hugs...and prayers....
c
It’s true
Submitted by Brindle on
My bitterness is my protection. A part of me doesn’t want to let go of my anger because I know that I’m not wrong to be angry that he isn’t even trying to manage his symptoms. But another part knows I can’t keep feeling this way. Even if his adhd doesn’t destroy us, my bitterness might, no matter how justified my anger is. Forgiving him won’t put the relationship where it should be, but it will better the relationship on my side, and that is one of the few parts of our relationship that I have control over.
I’m glad you mentioned pointing out his other good qualities that have nothing to do with being a husband. I can do that, and I need to because I need to see him through some other lens than the husband lens.
Thank you, C
I am sorry, anger is so
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I am sorry, anger is so destructive and non more so than to the holder of it. You maybe said it yourself though - there are some other things to do before you can forgive or even lay down the frustration, hurt and rage. I know lots of people say it is a choice and not a process, but if you can't, then there is something stopping you and it would be best to locate a to work with and around it.
Perhaps it is mourning what you hoped and dreamed of, and finding either reconciliation with that, or a way to move on. Not necessarily the man you married (who is the same person even if you didn't see it then), but the relationship you wanted. If you can lay down the anger then, you should find some space (not distance) to be able to search for what is still good and maybe learn a new language of intimacy and connection. Space itself is not inherently bad, especially if closeness is definitely not working for you or for him, instead sparking the worst possible sides of you. Even if the new way of interacting is flawed. Or no longer marriage as people recognise it (I always think it should be what works for you, not society).
You do deserve the peace though.
I loved every word
Submitted by Brindle on
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Yes, I think I do indeed need to mourn and come to terms with things before I can forgive. I need to come to terms with the man he is. You’re right that some of him is the same, though I didn’t see it. But there are changes I’ve watched happen, and I don’t like those anymore than I like the stuff I couldn’t recognize. All in all, I have someone different than I wanted to have. I have to accept him and find a way forward, even if, as you said, it looks so very different. The thought of learning a new language for this relationship makes me sad. I don’t want to have to give up certain aspects of a marriage, but then that’s another something to grieve and work through, isn’t it?
From the sound of it, looking
Submitted by Sollertiae on
From the sound of it, looking different from what you have now can only be a good thing even if I realise you are tired and don't need another long journey of discovery. Hopefully though, with some time, it will be less tiring than holding onto the anger and bitterness that is hurting you so badly. I would perhaps suggest a little reframe though should you decide to do this with him, and not walk away. The process is less about accepting him (or resigning yourself to him!), but instead accepting that what you wanted is not there and never really could be as you have very different worlds. Sad, it is true, but remember, nothing is absolute and you don't have to sacrifice everything - if you do have to give up aspects you felt were precious you will always remember them when they were, and the chances are high that you will get something equally so even if you can't quite visualise it now.
Be kind to yourself, this kind of shift from anger to something more productive is massive and takes time. Some days you hold ground, sometimes you lose. But also sometimes you might get lucky and find that some of the changes you've observed and hated may in fact not be permanent.
You are saying everything
Submitted by Purplebarney on
You are saying everything that I feel also. How do you let go of all that anger and frustration and not let it take you over? I don’t know how to do that and it’s destroying me. Help!
Same
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I keep hoping for magical words from someone on Brindle's post that will work for me, too. The anger is so ever-present and painful. I keep thinking about this post and have come to the conclusion that letting go of the anger and resentment completely is just not possible for me. Correction... I think if I leave, it is possible, but if I stay... it's just not. Even if I detach completely (almost the case anyway), his symptoms still have a huge impact on me daily. And even with the strictest of boundaries, it is a huge blow to my self worth to live like this. Every day by doing nothing I am making the choice to stay in a loveless marriage where I am way underparterned and undervalued. I used to be angry at HIM, but now I am pretty angry at MYSELF for that, too. I don't know if I can forgive myself actually. When I didn't know what I was dealing with, that was one thing, but now I have a clear picture of what this is and how little he is willing to do to address it. I can barely believe I'm letting myself be treated this way. I echo your sentiment, Purplebarney... "help!"
:/
Submitted by Sollertiae on
There are no magical words, alas, only hard work. I don't know the specifics of your situation Melody, but nevermind him. Literally. For your own long term mental health, no matter how you decide, you need to do something with the anger and resentment, especially if you have been turning it on yourself. Work on your own anger controls (works for internal anger as well as outbursts) so you can find some clarity, with a professional if needs be. Minimise the impact of his symptoms without him and at least cost to you.
Most importantly please have compassion for yourself - no one can make good and rational choices in the middle of a shit storm and hindsight is 20/20 and somehow always flawless. Make choices going ahead you won't hate that build on what you have learned - and if that is to leave then so be it. But hating yourself will only drag it all on wherever you go.
And I hope I avoided sounding like pop psychology, there is only so much the internet can do.
Thanks, Sollertiae
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Thank you for your kind words. I am trying to do all of these things and there are probably improvements still to be made, though some of these strategies have been as effective as they're going to be in this situation. My therapist said I am struggling because I have essentially decided to leave, but I am staying because at my daughter's age, it is virtually a guarantee I would have to share custody with him. That is unacceptable to me. So she said my brain is basically frustrated... I know what I want, but no action is following (for good reason, but still...).
Anyway... thanks again! It helps to have someone tell me to go easy on myself sometimes. I'm not great at it. :)
Even more reason to go easy :)
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Your therapist sounds sensible. Maybe finding other outlets for your frustration while you have little other choice is a plan, as well as looking at the future more. Because you don't deserve to be the target. Not when you are doing all you can to resolve the situation.
If anything you sound even harder on yourself now than without context. I know the sound of that self berating and it is not healthy (I chant to myself daily), even if easy to collapse into.
Sans context...
Submitted by Sollertiae on
In the immediate moment it is stopping adding to the pile where the anger and frustration feed off each other, because the more there is the harder it is to let go. If you can work out what behaviours and symptoms trigger your anger and frustration, then work to avoid those situations or at least buy yourself time and space to recognise if it is spurring you to anger. Leaving a room, or house, counting to 40, breathing, going and exercising - can get you space to recognise it is taking you over an instead supplant it with something for yourself. No matter how anyone else is engaging - you need it for you. Even if it doesn't work the first fifty times. Or a hundred.
In the long term, well. As Brindle said, it is about identifying really what it is that is stopping you. Not knowing how is the easiest (counsellors can teach that) or is it because other options seem overwhelming, impossible or not what you wanted? Maybe you are simply too tired and overwhelmed to find space. All of which suck and make it harder to release the energy that anger brings. That I think is the place for getting someone professional to work with you, but it isn't magic or quick. Mostly though as I keep reiterating - this is about you first and foremost, and being kind to yourself.
It’s been a little over a month since I made this post.
Submitted by Brindle on
Rereading everyone’s words and thoughts again is so therapeutic. I have been working on just acknowledging my own pain and the loss of the close relationship I thought we could have. Without resentment. Without self-pity. Just letting sadness be pure sadness. Just yesterday I allowed myself a good cry, for as long as I wanted to cry, and then I dusted myself off and moved on. I’m reminding myself that it is ok to be deeply sad and deeply hurt, and that it is definitely ok to draw those boundaries that protect me. But it isn’t ok to hold onto anger. Feel it, acknowledge it, and let it serve its purpose (to signal something is wrong and help me try to find a solution), but then let it go.
I also realize that part of my anger is because unconsciously I have been hoping one day he will wake up. I’m hoping one day he will be a better man. I keep thinking, “He should” do this or “he shouldn’t” do that. I’m trying to stop that. Sure, he should or shouldn’t, but I’m basically trying to wish it better. Lol. Wishing it better. What a ridiculous thing. No wonder I’ve been so miserable.
He’s helping me come to terms with who he is. Oh, he’s definitely not aware he’s doing this. But since posting this, he let me know that he won’t be trying medication. So there’s another reason to accept things are as they are. I have to stop wishing and hoping. I cannot heal if I’m still trying to find a way out of this reality. And his admittance that he won’t be trying to do anything about it is helpful for that process for me.
It does mean I’m letting go of my dreams about marriage. I still won’t be leaving. But having a dream that is based on another person fulfilling their part to your satisfaction??? That’s a recipe for a disaster, and don’t I know it.
I’m only a little over a month into this intentional grieving and acceptance process. I’m sure it will take a long time to get through. But I at least feel better that I have some control over my side of the street.
You are amazing, amazing for
Submitted by Sollertiae on
You are amazing, amazing for letting yourself feel so much and being willing to sit with what has to be some extreme levels of grief and loss in order to be able to move past anger and on into more productive parts of mourning and then living. It is admirable in anyone, let alone when the person and relationship involved hasn't stopped because of death, but is still there and still is an existing relationship to be built on.
I also realize that part of my anger is because unconsciously I have been hoping one day he will wake up. I’m hoping one day he will be a better man. I keep thinking, “He should” do this or “he shouldn’t” do that. I’m trying to stop that. Sure, he should or shouldn’t, but I’m basically trying to wish it better. Lol. Wishing it better. What a ridiculous thing. No wonder I’ve been so miserable.
What a marvellous insight for your own sanity - that wishing it better is terribly damaging for your own peace of mind. The kicker is that I am sure there are also times when he wishes that he could wake up, even though it is physically impossible to wake up from your own brain physiology. And those times are probably the ones when he is at his absolute worst, because that will trigger the most terrible avoidance and behaviour from the hurt. So wishing it better and trying to force it better means actually lessens the chance he will change, simply because of that.
Leading me to.. his choice to stay un-treated is not ideal but ... look, to be honest, I know that there is a lot of discussion about the first step to anything being medication, but while it does help to bring stability to the person with ADHD and lessen the sense (for all) of being thrown around in the tumultuous sea of their brain it is still not the answer to everything because it is a brain. Being able to cope with your husband un-medicated, and making sure he is in charge of his symptom management (not you!) would still be necessary anyway, because no one can take stimulants all the time. And it doesn't remove things like anxiety, depression and long standing behavioural issues/trauma, all of which are difficult. Anyway, no is not forever - your husband may at some point change his mind, and you will hopefully be in a better position to have that happen.
I hope that if you can continue, no matter the relationships outcome, you will manage to find a new, fuller and less harmful dream of marriage. :)
I'm struggling with this
Submitted by goneundone on
I'm struggling with this exact same thing. Divorce is not an option for me at this time. But my anger and resentment towards him is eating me alive and I don't know how to put it down.
After reading through the comments.. maybe I have to stop hoping and expecting him to change, since the honest truth is that he will never do the work it takes to change.
But then I'm also wondering how I'm supposed to have regular sex with a husband who I am completely detached from... which only serves to increase my anger and resentment. How do I cope with this?
I want to be a joyful woman. I want to experience joy, and I want to show my daughter joy. But whenever he is present, my anger and resentment saturates me and I am unable to be joyful.
How, indeed.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I suppose the only way you can continue to live together is to live like he does not exist, almost like roommates.
I can tell you what I did with my ex husband when it came to sex. We would go without for months, until I couldn't take his whining anymore and I caved. It was never about me or my enjoyment. For the record, I didn't enjoy it. In fact the last 10 years of the marriage I was unable to orgasm. It always happened in this order...with me servicing him.
Him....Pawing/grabbing me, and it is over in minutes. He rolls over and falls asleep. I go to the spare bedroom and cry myself to sleep.
I focused on my two children for as long as I could until I could no longer take the abuse. Then I filed for divorce, which took a year....a year in which I had to live with him because I had no job and nowhere to go. I was afraid to leave the kids with him because he could say I abandoned them and then he would have gotten full custody.
I've been divorced for going on 8 years. My son is 23 and my daughter is 17. I had to accept that my ex would never admit to the abuse. I'm now engaged to a wonderful man who happens to have ADHD. He treats me better than my ex ever did...and he doesn't look at me with contempt. He loves me for me.
Change with ADHD is very,
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Change with ADHD is very, very slow and requires a great deal of hard work. Even with the full cooperation of the person with ADHD, it will fail many times -- that is what an executive function disorder looks like. They can't. It has to become so routine and habitual that nothing can derail it. Most people with ADHD have quite strict routines (when not being impulsive) and their own roundabout coping mechanisms - he will lean into his no matter what you say because that is what has stuck. Even if terrible.
I preface my reply with this, because if you are seeking to change him, then that way lies pain, confrontation and disappointment. Both for him and you. Not knowing your circumstances I am pretty sure he sees it as an attack, you as rejection. Pick what is non negotiable (and I would suggest it be things like pleasant contact, no verbal abuse, time together rather than organisation for now) and then disengage the war.
Letting go of anger is not about detaching all feelings from him. It is about you. You finding something that is not him to focus on. About finding joy that you can carry with you, about being able to find space so you don't get flooded with resentment and anger, and getting help for yourself for your own health. About not zeroing in on all he does - and eventually in absence of your focus he will probably respond better.
Also please, for the love of all, if you don't want sex with someone, do not have it. While there is always a place for adrenalin fuelled 'hate' sex, there is never space for 'obligation' sex.
5 months into this journey of grieving
Submitted by Brindle on
One thing about this grieving thing is that it will take your breath away some days. Old memories come back to me about things he's done in the past and suddenly I'm wildly sad that this is my story. The story of my marriage, the one relationship that I thought was going to be so meaningful. Instead, I'm rediscovering a very painful past. And taken together, the years tell a glaring adhd story. A painful one. One that, thankfully, could have turned out far worse in some spots than it did, but didn't, and I have to thank God for that. And the story is mine alone to carry. He doesn't have memory of the awful things he has said and done. And from other conversations in the past, he doesn't want to believe that was ever him. So put poor working memory together with no motivation to remember because it shows him being a terrible husband... I carry this story alone. Which is another thing I regularly come back to being sad about. I try hard not to let resentment in during these moments. Just pure sadness that I am married to someone who doesn't even know our history. Doesn't know me, by extension. He doesn't. If you don't know a person's pain, you don't know them.
Which brings me to what I've been trying to do. I'm trying to be a student of him. Trying to see his pain, even if he can't see his own pain. I've always known he's a poor communicator. Anytime we tried to talk about anything, he was enormously slow to even know what he thought or how to say it. But watching him and taking myself out of the picture... just looking at him and seeing adhd seep out of his pores... he doesn't communicate well at all by himself. I ask questions, and he just doesn't answer them fully. He only gives tiny pieces of the whole picture. I don't think he can give a whole picture. I have to ask many questions to get to the full thought, and that's the "full thought" from my perspective. I have no idea if it's the "full thought" from his own. Does he even know his "full thoughts"??? I doubt it, really.
I know this: he sees treating his adhd in any fashion as saying there is something wrong with him. He is very protective of his adhd staying just the way it is. He does not want to look at the downside or discuss a downside. He does not want to know himself in the negative realm of adhd. He does want to avoid any immediate crises that would mean he would lose the life he has, but he does not look at an overall life crisis because of adhd because that would fly in the face of him protecting his adhd. He says adhd is an asset to him. But he does not see that it isn't all a benefit. He does not see the very big downsides.
I also know this: he is almost always in anxiety about work lately. It is all he thinks about. The family passes through his mind, he makes a small effort to be present, but he's only there physically for a few minutes. His mind is racing and he appears to be bothered to be with us. But he has no idea that he's giving off these vibes. He doesn't even think to communicate that his displeasure about something is not a displeasure with us. He doesn't even notice that he's not ever really present with his family. If you ask him, and I have, he thinks he does far far far more than he actually does. He is a prisoner in his own head, and he doesn't even know it. I've always wondered how he could give himself so much credit as a husband and father, and now I think I know. He cannot actually see reality of his actions because his head has him so trapped, and he doesn't even know his head has him so trapped. So there's no awareness to fight against it. What's more, as long as he is protective of his adhd, it will stay this way. So we may pop up in his mind, he intends to go spend time with us. He may manage 15 minutes with us. He will assume it was longer. We will notice that he's barely there, didn't really talk to anyone, and acted agitated the whole time and had negative comments to everyone. He will leave, thinking he spent quality time with his family and thinking he's done a good thing. The difference is now - now I know that he isn't doing it on purpose... but he is the only one who can fix it, and so we are all at the mercy of his denial over adhd having downsides.
But there is a positive side to all of this. (Though it will take me a couple sentences to get to the positive side, so please bear with me.) With so much of these "aha" moments, I've detached from him in several ways because I see that it is (in practice) a one-sided marital relationship. I've given up hoping for romance or deeper love from him. But because I'm able to detach, I can give him love with no strings attached. See, I realized recently through talking with a friend that my love before had strings attached. My strings were expectations that there would be reciprocity, even if it was a male form of reciprocity... I expected it would be there. So when it hasn't come, again and again for years, I've been angry and it has often warped things I've done for him. Now, seeing him more clearly, I know I won't get reciprocity. So now I can do things simply because I want to, knowing he will notice fleetingly, and then forget all about it. I can now love him, in a way, more freely. Now, I'm under no romantic illusions about this "loving more freely" stuff. I don't see this as a new way to get his attention or a way to fall in love with him all over again. In a way, it's how I love my kids. It's not the way I want to see him. But it is a way forward to infuse more kindness and compassion for him where there used to just be hurt and bitterness. I have to let this anger go. I don't think the pain of a one-sided relationship will ever go away. But I can stop twisting the knife in my own heart.
Moving
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I am glad you checked back in with an update, and that while incredibly sad, you seem to be in a better place.
And the story is mine alone to carry. He doesn't have memory of the awful things he has said and done. And from other conversations in the past, he doesn't want to believe that was ever him. So put poor working memory together with no motivation to remember because it shows him being a terrible husband... I carry this story alone. Which is another thing I regularly come back to being sad about. I try hard not to let resentment in during these moments. Just pure sadness that I am married to someone who doesn't even know our history. Doesn't know me, by extension. He doesn't. If you don't know a person's pain, you don't know them.
I have told this story before, but my partner has rewritten a couple of memories of us together because he was so upset with how he failed me. I was in the States, and my cat of some fifteen years very abruptly died when I was away. I'd only just really met my partner and this happened a few days before we were to road trip. I was heart broken, but didn't want to make the journey terrible and impose on someone I knew not that well, so after a small bout of tears... we headed out. He said two months later that he was so upset that he hadn't sat me down, had me grieve and taken the time and space to do so. Cut to this year, where he had completely rewritten the memory so that he had done all of that, because in his own words, 'what sort of horrible person would I be if I didn't?' I did not have the heart to tell him that he is the sort of person who was taken advantage of because I knew I could fluster him out of it against his will, nor to correct his memory. And it rather broke my heart that I had made him feel so bad, left me feeling very lonely as the only one to remember ... but also horrified at how very desperate he is to not have to live with shame, and how very easy it is for it to go wrong.
I am not sure what I can say other than I am so sorry, and that I hope, eventually you can both find a point where you know each other again in some way that works for you both and brings some healing.
Which brings me to what I've been trying to do. I'm trying to be a student of him.
It sounds weird, but I am pleased because this is positive movement forward and gives you the chance to move forward even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment. Learning to recognise what are symptoms and what is actually him, even , when the depth of the symptoms are terrifyingly off-puttingis important. And if it is any comfort, this journey is not always as terrible as it seems right now. Seeing him as he is as you point out can be absolutely depressing and lonely especially as the depth of the issue comes to light, but and I say this as someone who chooses to pursue her relationship despite these things, being able to see what is there and what isn't possible for him can help you find spaces and learn to understand his actual communication. It seems like he doesn't, but he does - it is simply hidden very far underneath symptoms and means looking for the silences as much as what is said.
You are absolutely right, he cannot see the whole picture, or even his own pain. There is a cartoon out there that depicts it as walking along in a heavy fog where everything outside the direct few steps in front are invisible. Is there a crevasse? Is it flat? Are there other people? Living in a world that is 'now' and 'not now' means that he literally embodies whatever moment he is in and his view of the world is a patchwork landscape of emotion, of events, of conversation, of thoughts (especially if you have 10 at the same time) and memories hoping they make sense. All the while once again being in another moment. You hear people with ADHD say, 'I was depressed and I forgot that there was a time when I was not, and that therefore there could be a future again.' That is hard, to have to constantly question and judge your own brain and sort out what is being communicated from all the input going in. However, this doesn't mean that he won't have some sort of pattern where he will take in new things and communicate, but it takes extra time for someone with ADHD, with space and distance from intensity of emotion and of events.
And sometimes needs some gentle prodding to happen positively, rather than confrontation, especially if it is a matter of working memory. My partner loses all ability to communicate when strong emotions are involved - shame, guilt, love, anger, fear - then he cannot communicate verbally. He responds to touch and physical affection, but he almost certainly cannot cope with the sensation or feelings in the moment and will basically explode until he gets some distance on it and can get to a point where he will reflect, out aloud, often randomly. Usually I will notice that three months out he is revisiting it and is willing to take gentle input, then at about six months I will be seeing a final version. One year later he will surprise me with a small moment of 'remember that moment..' and I realise he was thinking of it all the time - and that fleeting moment is when I realise he really treasured something enough to keep it. But grah, that is a long time!
He does not want to know himself in the negative realm of adhd....He says adhd is an asset to him. But he does not see that it isn't all a benefit. He does not see the very big downsides.
This is hard, I am so sorry. Without friends who also have ADHD to normalise treatment and to say 'omg it really does help and please get counselling', it is going to be very hard to undo such a level of damage and turn that around.
I think, perhaps he does in his own way and that is why you are getting so much resistance to him seeing the ADHD as something wrong. No one wants to face up to having hurt people they love and care for, to destroying their own life and others through not being treated. More importantly, given what you have said about past moments in your marriage and the trauma involved for you - I would bet money that he has some idea of the very big downsides, is incredibly ashamed, and is determined to avoid anything because it attacks his sense of self, as well as terrified of what the unknown (ahaha no ability to see the future!) would hold. My (untreated) partner, in his quiet moments when 'not making the best of things' has expressed that he knows how much of his life has been wasted and it makes him want to die. One really common reaction to getting treatment is then plunging into depression because the clarity medication gives you shows just how much has been wasted. Alas, it is not simply a discourse that is based in you, but in every interaction he has had in his life around being 'normal' or 'adequate.'
I also know this: he is almost always in anxiety about work lately. It is all he thinks about.
Do you know what it is about work that is causing the anxiety? If he is so hyperfocused and anxious about work, then until it is resolved, everything else is going to be to the side until whatever it is is solved. Terrible though this it is, it has nothing to do with you, or the family (and it is quite possible that if he is anxious about keeping the work or doing well then he is actually thinking that it is important to the family... albeit not in a way that is actually right, useful or communicated). Again, it is 'now and not now' and a definite inability to multi task when actually under stress. The same goes for the misunderstanding how long he has been spending time with you all - while he definitely does need to engage for more than fifteen minutes, he probably is time blind and really does believe it was longer. I quite literally had my partner not contact me for three weeks only to come back and be confused why I was worried, it had only been four days! Ergh. No, no, that was definitely three weeks.
I know this hurts. It hurts a huge amount to feel like you are not enough to hold attention, even if what is probably making him feel like he has spent 'quality' time with you is the amount of effort he had to use to hold his attention to stay there. The horrible, distant and agitated (agitated is never a good sign...) tend to point to that. And it is so hard to address especially when he is defensive. If he is so distracted, then maybe it is actually about finding a different time for the family - maybe trying to find in the morning if he is not a grumpy one, or having him eat and have down time first, or approaching him and saying that you miss him and would he be able to (insert some skill that he has) do this with you all? If he has an obsession, join in as a group. Or not, I know there is only so much rejection that one can take.
But because I'm able to detach, I can give him love with no strings attached. See, I realized recently through talking with a friend that my love before had strings attached. My strings were expectations that there would be reciprocity, even if it was a male form of reciprocity... I expected it would be there. So when it hasn't come, again and again for years, I've been angry and it has often warped things I've done for him. Now, seeing him more clearly, I know I won't get reciprocity.
I can't predict the future, and I wouldn't presume to tell you what might happen or might not happen given more time - but if you do get reciprocity then it will be an ADHD form of reciprocity. It is not a classically romantic, male, or even very easily recognisable one, but it is there. While it is very hard for someone who is untreated to see through the 'now' and 'not now', to work around emotional lability, memory issues, communication problems and all the rest, they do love and love intensely. Even if sometimes you have to search very hard for its expression. Whether you want that is another thing altogether.
I am glad you have found some peace though, and have been taking care of yourself.
Thank you, Sollertiae
Submitted by Brindle on
Your replies are always so rich with understanding and affirmation of his side of things as well as my side. Thank you.
I realize your fella is different than mine in several key ways: yours is far more self aware and far kinder than mine. And you guys don't live together full-time. And you knew about his adhd going in, and he has stuff in place to try to manage his adhd, whereas mine does not.
So after all that... does the relationship wear on you at all? If so, how do you recover?
Yes
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Thank you. I don't want to sound like I am defending him and his poorer behaviours to you especially as I don't know either of you, but because you are trying to observe him neutrally there are a few things that might help with that from the ADHD side.
Yes, it does weigh on me and I am by no means always happy. I work hard to be, but life is not perfect. Not so much household stuff, I've had far worse housemates to be stressed overly. As long as I have an area to research in, mess is okay. But I get exhausted by his intensity, especially when things aren't going well which is often. The emotional shrapnel that ricochets off him will trigger anxiety in me and a sense of getting lost in the whirlwind - I pick up his mannerisms and drown. However, I know if I am feeling it, then he is to 130%. I usually desperately want to FIX it now, but that is a bad choice. So instead I do what he can't - walk away. And leave him a small gift of something to cheer him and tell him I believe in his ability, while getting myself a new book, or having a 'date' night with a friend. Sometimes that is impossibly hard, and the anxiety is still overwhelming because I care.
Conversely, I also struggle with the fact that he often needs downtime when I desperately don't want it. He gets tired by having to hold focus on me for extended periods (or you know: anything important) starts sleeping more, gets worn out, forgetting stuff and begins to deregulate and become self conscious and erratic. So he 'vanishes' (hyperfocuses) to regroup... before 'reappearing' and I cannot speed up this cycle, even if poorly timed. This is hard, because often I want his input, sympathy, or simply him to talk non stop at me about stuff (I er, find that soothing because I do) as a distraction from being lonely, stressed, unwell, something has pissed me off from his end. But all I can do is to know his patterns, and loop in. It helps that I can now recognise him making space for me to do so, and how little he manages it for anyone else. On bad, hormone driven weeks I try to persuade myself to end everything as he doesn't care, is bored with me (downside of knowing about ADHD: now I am paranoid of being boring!), I don't matter... but the idea of no fast talking fool is still worse than waiting and working on synching.
Mostly I go find my closest friends and they remind me (unprompted) that he will be back, I am interesting, and not to listen to my own trauma. So I work to stop hyperfocusing on him and do things I love then embrace whatever chaotic form his return throws me into... and ride that wave with humour. Or you know, have calmed down enough I can have some actual strategies for working in difficult discussions.
But if you want a nightmare try getting immigration sorted when one half of the party has untreated ADHD. *gnashes teeth* Bad enough immigration alone. I am either going to become a saint, a martyr or a murderer.
I never talk about it, because I realise I will unilaterally disagree with almost everyone on the topic (zero tolerance and abstinence approaches to drug and alcohol are damaging in my world) but he also has some ... very unhealthy coping mechanisms sans being able to afford actual treatment. I worry for his long term health. And sad. Very sad. And worried. Mostly worried. One of my oldest friends is a psych who works in drug and alcohol though, and is invaluable when it comes to managing healthily unhealthy behaviours.
So ... things weigh on me, but ya know, I am no picnic either.
Thank you so much for writing all of that out
Submitted by Brindle on
Clearly, you work hard on your end of the relationship, especially with accepting him as he is and being understanding toward him. I hope he understands how good he has it with you. I'm sure he has no idea what it is like to be his partner, no no no. But I hope he sees the gift you are to him. Because he has a rare gem in you.
And after all of that, I want to hug you or something. How hard to be his partner, truly. When you said you were either going to be a saint, a martyr, or a murderer, I admit to chuckling a little. But truly, your words, "things weighs on me" must surely be so accurate.
<3
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Beautifully said, Brin. You articulated your feelings so well. My heart goes out to you.
So very similar
Submitted by jennalemone on
Brindle, I have been reading your posts this morning and you have a gift of the telling of your reality with such vulnerable, descriptive words and phrases. When I come to this site, it is a reassuring place where I feel a community of people who understand so much of the life I live. That gives me the comfort that I am not crazy or selfish or making things up, but rather that other people are going through very similar times and are willing to share the secrets that we hide from other people in our physical life...for they would not believe or understand what we are going through.
I am older than most of the posters here. Married to my ADDer for over 45 years. I, like you, am now angry at myself for all that I have "put up with" and how bad I was to myself by (here's the word that did not exist in this context when I was younger...we called it "being loving and supportive") ENABLING this relationship by my "make lemonade out of lemons" attitude all those years.
I am in a financial position to not be able to leave and while I am ashamed of our situation, DH is oh so very proud of "himself" for what we (I) have accomplished. He struts around like a peacock not wanting to acknowledge the disappointment and burden I have felt in our marriage. He emits hatred at me. I see now that all these years, he has manipulated me with his crass words and willingness to use stonewalling and fighting to "get his way"...which most often included him doing and saying irresponsible and thoughtless hurtful things. He talked like a cussing sailor and I took it personally (as in, "What did I do wrong for him to say such a mean thing to me?". Now that I am NOT taking things personally, his bullying gene is not being sated as having any effect and it is making him frustrated at me.
I am doing a very similar thing you are doing, Brindle. I am pulling myself/my emotions/my dreams out of the expectation of this relationship and not permitting my feelings to be hurt or my pride to be smashed anymore. I will always grieve that I did not leave him when I was younger. Now I am ashamed of our relationship to MYSELF. I can forgive myself. I can forgive him. But along with that forgiveness, I must also accept that I am not the person I started out to be and DH got to be much more than he thought he would ever be. He also lives in an adjusted history in his mind where he accomplished much more than he actually did and he did harm...which he has erased or memory-manipulated history.
I am just writing this to say...we are not alone. We are not crazy or selfish. We are human beings reflecting on our situations and our lives.
I just read an very nice thing my niece wrote about her husband on Facebook. She wrote: "I am so thankful for my husband who made it possible for me to live the incredible lovely life we have had." It is said that we make our own happiness but I am of the age to say with certainty that we can make our own situations and hope for happiness, but people around us have a direct effect on our happiness. And sometimes it is just a shake of the dice how things turn out. Such is life.
A phrase that I keep referring to in my mind is this: "There are a thousand things that every person can be sad or mad about in their lives. But it takes one thing at a time to make a human being happy." I say this to my granddaughters and then we say silly things that make us happy.
Jenna
Submitted by Brindle on
You're so right on so many counts. And as you are in this journey with me... do you get exhausted? Because I sure do. This is not easy. But I have found it freeing to realize that while the hurt may never fully go away, it will hurt less with time, like other grief does.
And goodness, yes, people around us do have an impact on our happiness. You and I are two peas in a pod in something - I also just tried to just support my husband and what I really did was enable some bad things. I also was cowed by his reactions when I voiced objections, and I allowed myself to be hushed.
I like what you say to your granddaughters. :) An excellent exercise. My version of that is a gratitude journal. It really helps me. And thank you for your kind words at the beginning of your reply. What a lovely compliment.
Update on forgiveness journey
Submitted by Brindle on
I've been working for many months now (more than a year since I made the original post) to work to lay down my anger and just grieve all my losses in terms of this very hurtful relationship.
Overall, I'm in a much better place in my heart. I no longer carry around the resentment and tension that I had. And something happened very recently that was another huge blow to our relationship, and I'm so far not feeling anger and resentment. So that's good. It's real and solid progress, for me to grieve it from the very beginning of the latest blow, that I haven't let anger take root. Instead, lots of frank processing and letting myself cry.
After much processing over this last year, I think I've come to the analogy of a potted plant that is dried, shriveled, and brown. If you look deeper, at the roots, there's a fungus. The roots are still alive, and the fungus won't be able to kill off the roots for a long time yet, but it will happen eventually of someone doesn't do the major health overhaul the plant needs - new soil with a better balance of what that particular plant needs, new pot, gentle sun, and the right amount of water.
That sad potted plant is my marriage. It's not dead yet, but there's been much destruction, and I have recently realized there's a fungus.
I am working on me. I'm trying to protect my health in every way I can. I'm working on myself emotionally. I'm rereading some books to help me with some next steps. I'm working to keep toxic anger away. And I'm trying to make sure I do things that make me happy.
And I am realizing that this sad picture is only partly ADHD. He is a very immature adult, emotionally. He talks a good game, even to our kids, but he doesn't follow that same advice he gives them. He really gives the impression that he's gained some emotional intelligence when he speaks. He expects the kids to make decisions and choose according to his advice. But the instant those scenarios involve him... the advice is forgotten and he's out for himself. He merely talks a good game.
I see a very sad future for him. One of loneliness. I can't help but feel some sympathy for that.