I am very new to this, so I'm going to keep this post short. I was a widower and recently remarried a widow, and we are both retired (in our early 60s). She has ADHD (self-diagnosed, untreated). She told me she was ADHD, and I did a little research on the subject, but I sure didn't learn enough to know what I was really getting into. Now I'm in it. Wow. I read of the struggles of others on this site (a site which I discovered not too long ago), and I've noticed that most (all?) the ADHD spouses are the husbands. I wonder if this is unusual for the wife to be ADHD? Anyway, we do have many good days, but lots of bad days too, days where I'm the problem (it's rarely ever her, almost always me in her eyes), and I knew what she was like before we married! so I just better accept it or "there's the door!" I am not really permitted to have a voice or opinion independent of hers. I'm certain she will never agree to any treatment because she only believes in all natural type healing and does not like medical doctors. And if she knew I was on this site writing this I'm fairly certain she would "blow up" at me. In some ways I feel trapped, but the fact is, I married her for better or for worse. I have no intention of leaving her, so I am just struggling to cope with our new lives together. I have taken this opportunity to write here because I just need to express myself to someone, somewhere, honestly without the fear of argument or petty retaliations. I'm not sure how often I'll be able to log on here, but it's a start.
Coping w. ADHD wife
Submitted by Jayveekay56 on 02/26/2020.
You are me 12 years ago...In shock....LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm 63, she is 58 (she had never married, I was a widower) and she has a high level of add....I to am still here because "better or worse"....The best thing I can do for you w/ a short post is to say.....Click on my screen name.... c ur self.... and it will take you to 6 years of life lessons w/ a an add wife....And let me add these few emergency items...LOL......One) Do not walk on egg shells (which is what you are doing being fearful of logging on to this learning site, I know, I did it also)....Two) go to an counselor to discuss boundaries, and difference's...You both need to learn to accept and respect each others differences...And you are no match for her her defensive attitude, verbal attempts will only create more conflict...3) Start devising (write it down) boundaries to protect yourself, your life style, from being overrun by her...4) Be understanding of the suffering of her mind, but, never be run over...Believe what you see, accept it, and walk away from manipulation attempts, or control attempts....And never do that to her either!...5) And remember this....This site can be a life line for you in many ways....Come on here w/ your questions...Guard your emotions....No matter what she vowed at the alter, what she is capable of, is a totally different thing.....The hardest thing can be to not over think it....(Don't allow her life style to overwhelm you, she has had it for ever, even though you didn't know people lived that away) Just live your life....If she see's you just living a calm and peaceful life, and you refuse to allow her to intimidate or effect you emotionally, she will eventually calm down and work more on her self....If you allow her attitude to keep you on the egg shells, she will use you up.....(THE WORSE THING YOU CAN EVER START DOING IS ENABLING HER, MOTHERING HER BY PICKING UP BEHIND HER, AND TAKING ON HER RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE MARRIAGE, FORCE HER TO BE A RESPONSIBLE ADULT BY STEPPING OVER HER RESPONSIBILITIES, NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE TO ENDURE TO DO IT)...Do not create extra conflict by trying to share with someone who is never wrong in their mind...Finances, taxes, etc..Never adopt an attitude of "well me and my late wife could share in everything", so could me and mine, but, brother we don't have them any longer!....Boundaries are must!
Go to a counselor, if she want go, go yourself......Be calm...Write down the unacceptable behaviors.....Never think the marriage has to last, think the marriage has to be one that honor's the creator of marriage...Never excuse yourself of the husband role to love, and live in an understanding way.....IF you will do these things you can avoid many negative emotions.....Live wisely my friend...I will pray for you...
c
Heeding Advice
Submitted by Jayveekay56 on
Thanks for the good advice and the encouragement. I've kind of started to figure a few things out, but it's nice to hear from the "voice of experience" that I'm on the right track. It may seem silly, but I sometimes have this image from the movie Forrest Gump, of Forrest in a football game running past the end zone after scoring a touchdown and heading back through the stadium tunnel, with an extremely stressed, even panicked look on his face. I thought it was funny when I first saw the movie, that he didn't know enough to stop in the end zone after scoring. I now realize some people, like my wife, simply do not have the same social filters that many "normal" people have. Instead of being shocked and angry at her, I'm becoming more sympathetic to what her world must be like, a world that is often bizarre, probably not really understanding what is going on with people around her sometimes. And I'm definitely learning, even in being sympathetic toward her, that I cannot let her overwhelm me with her personality. I need boundaries. I'll be working on that. Again, thanks.
Wife with ADHD
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
My wife has undiagnosed ADHD. She sometimes acknowledges when she can use it as an excuse, but denies it most of the time. She has had a lot of anger issues, many of which appear to relate to rejection sensitivity dysphoria. There has been some improvement through marriage counseling, parent coaching, and medications for bipolar II and depression. The strain of having kids really led to an increase in both ADHD and anger problems. She had thought it would be easy and she could be a supermom. Reality did not meet her expectations and we have two very difficult kids, both diagnosed with ADHD but they also have a lot of other issues. I often try to approach harmful behaviors (such as being invalidating or interrupting speakers) by using the angle of improving her relationship with the kids rather than focusing on myself.
The Hitchhiker's Guide yo the
Submitted by PepperPots on
The Hitchhiker's Guide yo the Galaxy is one of my favorite books!
Okay, your comment about your wife's sensitivity. My husband has that also. In his case he has mild paranoia and believes he can read the minds of others. So, if I say to him, "Will you please get the trash out this week?" What he hears is (because he knows what I'm REALLY saying), "I AM SO SICK OF YOU BEING A LAZY BUM! TAKE OUT THE TRASH OR I'M LEAVING AND TAKING THE KIDS WITH ME! JERK!"
Hmmm......no, just asked if you could take out the trash. In counseling he talks about growing up and that everyone was constantly on his case. I'm sure that's true. Listening to the stories from his siblings and mother, my husband got into a lot of fights at school, played video games to escape, did poorly in school, and essentially learned that the only way to manage was to do nothing so that no one would yell at him. His mother had ADD also, she was raising two kids on her own and because she was an LPN, she was never home. She would get distracted at work and my husband and sister in law (he has four other siblings from a much earlier marriage) raised themselves. So, I feel for him, but.....I'm not those people. It has taken intense counseling for my husband to begin admitting that he can't actually read someone's mind. His paranoia persists, it may never leave. Have you noticed what triggers your wife's sensitivity? Is it stress, stress and lack of meds?, etc. Is she on meds? As far as motherhood not being what she imagined, it is difficult under the best circumstances, but if she tends toward a black or white view of life (like my husband), this will hurt her. If it was my husband, he would think that parenting was awesome until it wasn't and then abandon "that project" because it's not what he thought it was. I hope that makes sense.
Medication and Triggers
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
My wife takes lamotrigine for mood stabilization and buproprion for depression. She insists that she does not have ADHD, even though she admits to having symptoms.
She is often triggered by anger at someone else. This weekend, we tried to discuss a schedule for mornings with our daughter. Our daughter blew up and left, so we discussed a plan. She then started hammering me about how we had to start enforcing it by making sure she was getting ready that night. I said that I would do that. Before I could get up, resumed hammering me about it. Later, she fell asleep at my computer (she lost hers!) while prepping for work. I was in the living room. She yelled my name at the top of her lungs. I was startled and yelled "WHAT?" She then hammered me for snapping at her. I had to repeatedly explain that I was not angry and that I have a right to be startled at loud noises. (There is a lot of yelling in our house and I experienced a lot from my father and grandmother--both of whom abused me physically and emotionally.)
One of the major blowups that almost lead to divorce happened when we were driving back from vacation. She found a restaurant on her phone. We stopped to switch drivers, and it took me a long time to get coffee at Dunkin Donuts because the service was slow. I came back and found her yelling at the kids because they were fight. She took over driving. Before we even got back on the highway, she started yelling at me about the expensive restaurant I wanted to eat at--even though she picked it out and I had no idea what place it was. Then I was wrong for being defensive when she yelled at me about the restaurant. Then I was to blame for her getting off the highway and driving without knowing where she was going while she kept yelling at me.
RSD also triggers her. Once, I was driving along route 1 in California. My OCD kicked in and I was very anxious about driving along the cliff without a guard rail. She offered to drive and asked me if we should keep driving north along the coast or head inland. I told her it did not matter as long as I wasn't driving. She insisted that I make a choice, so I said to drive inland. She was driving a long time and did not understand why it was taking so long, so I looked at a map (pre gps phone days!) I said that the road we were on was going southeast. I did not say anything negative about her. Nonetheless, she started raging at me about how I was criticizing her. I repeatedly tried to explain that I had not said that she had done anything wrong. I just noticed that the map showed us heading southeast. She continued to scream at me for criticizing her. It got so bad that I had to get out of the car. When she stopped at a light in the middle lane, I opened the door without looking for oncoming traffic, ran to the sidewalk, and laid down.
She is also triggered by trying to be a supermom and not being able to live up to her own expectations. She had an incredibly naive concept of how easy it would be to raise children. She even told me that raising two is easier than raising one because they amuse each other! She therefore frequently became enraged when the kids did not get along. She also tried to force them into activities together, thus causing even more conflict between them. Her supermom complex has a lot to do with being raised by an incredibly narcissistic adopted mother.
Blaming you for her decision
Submitted by How Long will t... on
Wow, some of what you wrote really hit home. I cannot count the number of times I got blamed for things that were my husbands decision. If I try to tell him I wasn't the one that made such decision he will argue with me until it is a full blown fight. I've learned just to accept that every bad decision that is made was mine and mine alone. I hate conflict, and to be married to someone who thrives on conflict is unbearable.
Seeing ADHD has been a relief
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
At the worst points (such as the argument over the restaurant she chose), I was afraid that she had Borderline Personality Disorder. Our kids were diagnosed with ADHD and a friend suggested that I read Is It You, Me, or ADHD? It was a relief to see it was something that was treatable. If only she would accept that she needs treatment for ADHD!
I also tended to avoid conflict. Our son used to call me a coward for not standing up to her. But I just felt so beaten down and so tired of being blamed for doing X one day and not doing X the next. Earlier in the vacation that ended with the restaurant fight, we went on a ghost tour. The guide told a story about a previous tour where a ghost punished a woman on the tour for constantly criticizing her husband, who only replied "Yes, dear." She was not aware of how much that behavior resemble our marriage at the time. The restaurant fight was a straw that broke the camel's back. The following morning, she tried one of the strategies she had frequently used. Okay, MAYBE she did something wrong, but we both needed to apologize because I "became defensive." I told her this reminded me of when the principals used to make me apologize to the bullies who ambushed me and beat me up because I had fought back. Of course I became defensive when I was attacked without provocation. And I was defending myself with the TRUTH that she was the one who chose the restaurant. I refused to go along with the "we were both wrong" line to shift the blame away from herself and onto me. A few days and another fight later, I gave her an ultimatum to start marriage counseling or get a divorce.
Counseling
Submitted by How Long will t... on
Did she go to marriage counseling? Hubby and I did that back in 2008 and that's when he got diagnosed. Diagnosed yes- treated no. He refused to do any kind of medication because he says he likes who he is (has lots of energy to burn even at age 69) and worries the medication will take away his energy level. I thought then that since I now had a name and could research it I could deal with it more proactively- which I have, but it is exhausting.
Counseling
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
We did see one person for about six months during the time before I consider ADHD. The positive outcome was to get her to admit she needed help, leading to a Bipolar II diagnoses and medication. That counselor said he thought we did not need him anymore, but I suspect he was just sick and tired of us. The progress started to deteoriate after a few months.
I tried to find a marriage counselor who had experience with ADHD on Psychology Today. When we got there, it turned out she was new agey and did not "believe in" diagnoses. Nonetheless, the counseling has led to some improvement.
I also talked her into seeing a Psychologist/Psychiatric Nurse who claims she specializes in Adult ADHD. I went to one of the session to express why I thought my wife has ADHD. The Psychologist was basically using criteria for diagnosing kids with ADHD--including thinks like having difficulty sitting still in school! When I told her about my wife's impulsivity leading to her blurting out private information or hurtful things and then trying to get away with it by saying, "I am not inconsiderate. I just don't think about your feelings before you speak," the Psychologist said, "Well, that could just be being passive aggressive." When I talked about my wife's habit of loading our schedule with fun stuff resulting in us not having time to clean the house, the Psychologist responded that nobody likes doing boring things like housework. Well, no, but most people can make time for boring tasks that need to be done even if they don't like doing them. People with ADHD tend to put off necessary tasks or never start them in the first place.
My wife also tries to placate me by saying that Bupropion (which she is taking) is also used to treat ADHD. But it is a second-line medication that is assigned off-label when the patient can't take first-line meds. See https://www.verywellmind.com/using-wellbutrin-for-adhd-4137671. By the way, I take Bupropion for depression and Buspirone for anxiety.
All Fun No Work
Submitted by PepperPots on
I get this one. If it was up to my husband we would be living the way he grew up with his ADD mother: like Hoarder's in a filthy home. Because....who wants to do things like clean the house, pay bills and mow the lawn when you can be playing??? We have fought for years about the children's schedules and how to use weekends. My husband feels that I should do ALL of the housework, laundry, bill paying, etc. because I'm home all day. That would have been doable if we hadn't chosen to have five children. I learned to work growing up, but my husband wants our children to just play and he deeply resents that I ask him for help. I finally told him that I'm on the job when he is, but the moment he's home it's a shared venture. So basically, my husband has no self discipline. As in....at all. Hope this helps.
Stress
Submitted by Jayveekay56 on
I have noticed my wife is triggered by stress, and she gets stressed when she has too much to do in the course of the day. I've kind of become her secretary in that as we put things to do on our calendar I try to get them spaced out throughout the week. Otherwise, she is prone to packing things into one day then she gets stressed when stuff happens and things take longer to get done, etc. and then she lashes out at me! (Of course, I don't like that because I just have to take a verbal beating. I can't reason with her. She won't listen to me most times and the situation just escalates. So then I need to just shut up and let her calm down on her own.) We do exercise regularly (swim, walk, do some light weight lifting, and walking our two big dogs). That seems to help. She will not take any medications, but we do try to eat healthy, more natural and organic foods. We stay away from processed foods for the most part. Counseling is pretty much out of the question. She has an extreme distrust of many professionals, medical and otherwise. I may seek counseling at some point, but I'm not there yet. I've thought about talking to our pastor, but then again, he is not trained in counseling, so I'm reluctant to approach someone who may not really be qualified to help. That could create more problems than solutions I'm afraid. At this point I'm very appreciative of this blog site. This seems to be a safe venue for me to express myself and learn from others.
Biting off more than she can chew
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
My wife is constantly biting off more than she can chew. She frequently complains she does not have enough time to write plays. The solution? Add directing community theater to her already overpacked schedule! Before we were married, she complained about not having enough time to write WHILE SHE WAS DIRECTING TWO SEPARATE PLAYS! Once after we were married, she started talking about writing a biography of a famous playwright. I pointed out that this would take a lot of time and energy and she wanted to write her own plays. The result? I must have been saying that she was not as good as me! I wrote a book, but I thought she couldn't!
A favorite approach to not having enough time to do housework:
1. We agree to a schedule, such as cleaning the litter boxes twice a week.
2. The litter boxes do not get cleaned. When they do get cleaned, I am mostly the one doing it.
3. My wife decides that we should clean the litter boxes every day! This never happens, but setting an even more unrealistic goal will somehow make things better.
Conflated intentions with actions
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
My ADHD ex-wife would often propose a labor-intensive approach to an issue, never actually do any of the labor but she still expected praise for 'addressing the issue'. She seemingly conflated intentions with actions.
Sorry for the late reply. My
Submitted by PepperPots on
Sorry for the late reply. My husband used that excuse for years to: Social workers, therapists, counselors, etc. are all out to brainwash you! I allowed it for years and then two years ago said no more. He has been going off and on for the last two years, but progress is slow. Unnecessarily slow in my opinion. I found that my husband making irrational claims about therapy was a stall tactic that worked; he doesn't go, he doesn't have to get better. Depending on your situation will determine the length you can go to in getting her to a counselor. I literally paid out of pocket for a woman to come to our home in the beginning just to get my husband comfortable with her. The best money I've ever spent! He now goes to her office. It only took two visits. I found that part of the problem was that my husband didn't want to waste time doing this just to quit going after two sessions (why would we quit going? Because that's what ADD people do). The verbal beatings need to stop. Please walk away. Be kind, but move away from the situation if you can (not always possible). Finding someone that is qualified to help is a doozy. Most counsors that work with ADD in children think they can deal with adults. That's not been my experience. ADDitude.com can help somewhat though. It took me years to find a good counselor. I hope things get better. If not, posting on here helps a lot.
A self trained mind, jumps right to a defensive posture
Submitted by c ur self on
(Okay, your comment about your wife's sensitivity. My husband has that also. In his case he has mild paranoia and believes he can read the minds of others. So, if I say to him, "Will you please get the trash out this week?" What he hears is (because he knows what I'm REALLY saying), "I AM SO SICK OF YOU BEING A LAZY BUM! TAKE OUT THE TRASH OR I'M LEAVING AND TAKING THE KIDS WITH ME! JERK!")
I think the sensitivity comes from denial, because they hate living with all the internal shame their living of life produces if they face themselves.....They may not ever open up and discuss their reality with us....But they know!....So in order to feel good about themselves, they have to turn defensive (defiant)....Or just check out every time there behaviors are questioned.....If not they would be the person we want them to be...Someone who see's themselves, and is open and honest about themselves, someone who doesn't excuse intrusive and or abusive behaviors....
When I point out to my wife, about judging others....She excuses it by telling me she is gifted to read minds also.....Scary isn't it?? LOL....WOW.....
c
I am the non wife and can
Submitted by How Long will t... on
I am the non wife and can write a book about living with an ADHD spouse. I have been married for 24 years and most of that time have felt like I live in the Twilight Zone. Any real conversation makes no sense because my husband just talks in circles. If there is an issue at hand that I am aggravated about he will find something that he is mad about just so we don't talk about my issue at hand. He is an extremely good manipulator in conversation and I just gave up about 15 years ago. The fighting just wasn't worth it as it was taking a toll on my health. Now I just go along like I live with a roommate and we speak of nothing of real consequence. He retired 9 years ago (I'm 13 years younger), and by the grace of God he now lives in another state 6 months out of the year and I feel like I can relax. It's a terrible scenario that no one could ever understand unless you are living it. This forum has saved my sanity more than once!
Twilight Zone
Submitted by PepperPots on
The Twilight Zone is a perfect metaphor!
Twilight Zone
Submitted by Jayveekay56 on
I agree. The Twilight Zone metaphor fits a little too well. We have some good days, but as sure as night follows day, they are followed by bad days. What goes up must come down. It can be exhausting. But I keep looking for good ways to better manage my part of the relationship. Keeping my mouth shut and picking my battles seems to help. I sometimes wonder if I'm just being a coward, just doing a "yes, dear" thing to keep the volatility to a minimum. But I wait, and if an issues seems important enough, when the timing is right, I bring it up later, and she sometimes is actually open to discussion and listening to me. She seems to think we are adjusting well, and I guess we are in that her previous husband (now deceased) must have fought with her almost constantly. She said he took to heavy drinking in the end before he died from a massive heart attack. I have decided that I am NOT going to turn to drink as a coping strategy, even though it seems tempting sometimes:-) I have actually turned more to prayer these days, and I know it helps. I just wish she didn't say everything out loud that comes into her mind! You know? Oh, well.
Here's what I have learned
Submitted by How Long will t... on
Here's what I have learned about keeping my mouth shut for 24 years. Even when I do have something I want to say- even if it's just trivial, I have learned to keep my mouth shut for fear of him misinterpreting it and it turn into a fight. After 24 years of this I have started to referring to myself as the invisible person.
Invisible
Submitted by Yinyogi on
I understand the invisible thing. I just bite my tongue and don’t say anything. If I want to discuss something that did not go well and that I am unhappy about ( his behavior that leads to a problem) then I am not respecting him. We are in the middle of the damn course and nothing is really changing. We are being taught that 70% of the problems will never change and we’ll have to get used to them. We are told we have to make the appointments for the ADHD spouse because they’ll never get around to making their own for a true diagnosis. Also we have to get rid of our anger. Oh yes and all our anger is from our own past trial trauma and we have to get over it and makes it go away. Nope I’m owning my anger. Not stuffing it. Not tip toeing around him. Not being invisible. Yep we are roommates and I don’t really see it changing. 32 years and counting.
Hi Yinyogo....
Submitted by c ur self on
(We are being taught that 70% of the problems will never change and we’ll have to get used to them. We are told we have to make the appointments for the ADHD spouse because they’ll never get around to making their own for a true diagnosis.)
I would say the 70% part as it relates to pure add/adhd traits is about right, or even a little low....But the second part is the very worst thing you could ever possibly do, from my experience....When you start making appointments and running interference (mothering) for an adult spouse (esp. add/adhd minded one's) ....You might as well kiss any hope of a healthy marriage good bye.....All you are doing is creating more invalid traits in a mind type that is already susceptible to responsibility dumping....
The one thing that has created the best dynamic we could possibly have in our marriage relationship is forced accountability....All the word forced here means is to never enable or mother....You will find out that you can have real respect for your spouse when you do this....My anger was created by my lack of acceptance for her true self's abilities....And her dependency was created by my unwillingness to not Mother her....
I can watch her fall down, and get up 10 times a day, (add traits) and we are intact.....But the minute I start running and picking her up....I get frustrated and worn out, and she just lay's there and screams until I do....Then all we have is parent/child dysfunction, and emotional stress....
I'm not talking about the little things we might do for each other out of love...I'm talking about being unwise enough to give into any external pressure from them, or internal pressure from our own minds, to carry another adult....The price for that is always a one-sided dysfunctional relationship....No, we, like them, married an adult, who needs to do the adult work in life and in the marriage...This way (no enabling or mothering) we get a clear picture of what is important to them, and what they are capable of in life..(works both ways).....Because when they are loved, accepted, and respected, you will see the person you married....(of course this works both ways) You will see how they are going to live, what they will hold dear, and what they are going to put their energy and effort into....All the conflict between us dies....(can't blame one another) The only conflict left is that that is internal to myself or, to herself....
c
Thanks !!
Submitted by Yinyogi on
Yes I have read a lot of your posts and you seem very resigned and tired of the relationship.
I do vent here. Actually there have been some pretty good changes after he went off Vivance which made him really sad half the time and highly nasty and reactive the rest.
I like your idea about accountability. It nobody can force another person to be accountable. He wants to be sometimes and other times it’s just more fun to forget what he said he’d do. He is more accountable lately. I also have anger about how I have been turned into “mom”. Never asked for it. Didn’t want it. Now that I have some health issues he has had to do some care-taking. So so steps in right direction.
Yinyogi