Hi
I have read and relate to so many of the forum questions and responses on this site. I have been married to my ADHD husband for 22 years.
One "battle" that year after year, that never gets resolved (nor can we see an agreement) is with support vrs getting own way.
When my husband wants to run with one of his latest ideas and I don't express any enthusiasm, but rather say no that is not something I'm willing to (for example ) put all our money into, or I don't have the time to help you figure that out etc. He gets so defensive, and with a sudden mood change tells me I never support him in anything, that I just want to aruge and tell home what he can't do all the time and I'm negative etc. I'm really a very patient calm person. I don't deserve this when I'm just bringing the reality of the "idea " into the conversation. Then the second part is I would like to be able to communicate my thoughts without fear he will lash out in the anger outburst side of adhd.
anyone have similar situations? Advice??
Parenting "on the same page" & Disney
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
My wife wants "teamwork" and for us to be "on the same page" about the kids--and then makes important decisions without consulting me. But I should support her nonethess. And her positions change, sometimes dramatically during one fight with the kids. I have asked her, "Which you do you want me to support?"
She also - as recently as this Tuesday! - will complain that I am not supporting her and then demand that I talk to the kids to back her up. I start talking, and then she cuts me off! This makes me look like a puppet to the kids and cause them to resent her even more. Why don't I involved more often? Because doing so feels futile.
My wife also used to constantly pester me and tell the kids that we were going to Disney. We were in bad financial shape and could not afford it--sometimes I could not even put gas in my car! I did not want the kids to distrust us--and they now cite Disney promises as a reason why they are distrustful. My wife would sometimes say that I was being a "coward" like my deceased father because I lived in fear of what might or might not happen. Then our chimney liner collapsed and I had to take out a loan against my retirement account! I wasn't even thinking about that happening so I had not been living in fear that it might happen. Yet it DID happen.
One year, she agreed that we could not afford a Disney trip. Shortly after, she started nudging me to say we would try to go BUT we would NOT tell the kids. Next thing I know, she started telling the kids about Disney again! She said she resented that I forced her to say we couldn't go. I pointed out that each spouse should have a veto on very expensive things. What if I decided I wanted a motorcycle as part of a midlife crisis, for example? She should and would have the right to veto that.
Can't see the pitfalls
Submitted by adhd32 on
This quandary is common in ADHD relationships. The non spouse can jump ahead many steps and see the possible pitfalls in the ADHD spouse's scheme. The ADHD spouse is focused on the end result and doesn't consider the work and commitment necessary to reach the end result. We have been down this road countless times. I have heard the same "you never support me" retort and endured the week-long silent treatment that follows whenever I have put the kibosh on any of H's pie in the sky ideas. Unlike discussing a project with a non person and pointing out the problem areas and strategizing a solution, discussion with ADHD spouse is internalized as criticism. No discussion or solution regarding the glaring holes the ADHD person had not considered can be accomplished since they react rather than listen and consider alternatives. The danger is not speaking up and then they go ahead with the idea and disaster ensues. Some of H's foibles ended up costing money we saved for our kids' college tuition because his "mistakes" needed to be remedied immediately. But he never remembers this when the next big idea hits.
Understand Completely!
Submitted by AutumnThyme on
You are not alone in this.
Understand Completely! pt 2
Submitted by AutumnThyme on
Dearest Elleleen45,
You just described something that happened to me last week. I do the same as you each time he declares his next "project or dream" with great enthusiasm (which occurs several times each week). I simply say nothing or say a passive "ok..." and reassure myself that these projects usually don't come to fruition. Or, like recently, I will state the obvious reality check, which ALWAYS leads to the same reaction: hurt, defense, and anger as he states i don't ever support him and have shut his dreams down yet again. He says some deeply hurtful things and we're left with the familiar icy tundra between us.
First of all, my heart goes out to you. It is exhausting and unsettling to live with constant chaos and the potential bankruptcy caused by our spouses next great idea. Also, it's deeply hurtful when you are not heard or considered with these constant outbursts of whims. You feel shut down, forgotten, misunderstood and labeled as someone you are not. Over time, it makes you wonder who you even are when the person closest to you says you're such a horrible person. It is so...so...so difficult.
On the side of your husband, I think we can understand that he would want your support and for you to be at his side cheering him on in his new adventure. Take it as a compliment that he cares so much what you think and wants you along for the ride. He really loves you. He wouldn't get so hurt by your reaction if he didn't care. Every one of us wants to be supported in our ideas and dreams. Its just that the ADHD makes his dreams completely without restraint and more extreme. Reality is....he really needs you or else he'd probably be a total mess living in a cardboard box somewhere. I have found with my husband, he's wrapped up in the moment and can't clearly think through the other factors that make his idea completely ludicrous. (Also, the defensive response is triggering ALL the past, unresolved hurt because NOW he is feeling it.) So, I just keep silent if my emotions won't allow a positive response. Or, if able, I offer up some non-committal comment that's positive like: "hmmmm. That's a fun idea..." When he does carry out his hair brained ideas we always survive in the end and basically it's ok. So try to keep that perspective.
This past week, when he expressed his newest plan, and I declared I had no interest in pursing it, and he blew his lid, I just didn't respond. He then came to me a few minutes later and told me he was hurt by my lack of support. Though VERY difficult, I just listened and then found something true in what he said to respond to and apologize for. He had said that he often felt belittled by my tone and talked down to. This is true and a struggle for me and so I acknowledged that and asked for forgiveness. He actually broke down crying and was deeply touched. I then walked away. I still felt hurt but he was super kind the rest of the day, which was worth it all. I have found that when we can push past our own hurt to reach out to our partner, there is greater reward.
It wasn't until later that he approached me and asked me to share because he noticed I was hurt. I shared my side and hurt and he listened and responded kindly and apologized. He expressed he was able to do this because he had moved past his hurt and he felt loved by me. I have found ADHD folks need help to push through their hurt and they need time between it.
You express "I would like to be able to communicate my thoughts without fear he will lash out in the anger outburst side of adhd". I so relate. Recently, we have learned something that I hope helps you. When my husband would do something hurtful unintentionally, I would approach him about it because he had always wanted openness between us. Instead of getting understanding and compassion, I would get a list of all the things I had done for the past months to hurt him. This inevitably led to a huge fight and lots of hurt. Then recently in discussion, my husband expressed how when I confront him about a hurt, he SUDDENLY remembers ALL the hurt he has felt and never addressed. With ADHD he feels a sense of rejection, shame etc, quite easily but then immediately forgets the hurt when the next thing comes along. The only time the "hurt file" is pulled up is when I bring it up. Makes perfect sense.
My suggestion would be that when your husband does express his feelings, as hard as it might be, just listen. I know for my husband, being heard is vitally important. So its very critical that I listen without an angry face, without interrupting (huge!), and then respond (even in a monotone voice. Just keep the tone away from anger) to what he says. Find something in what he said to respond to and apologize for. Then after that, you can try expressing WHY you responded the way you did. (Maybe wait to get into your own hurt.) It might be fear, or you're stressed. Show him it's outside of him. I think a lot of times our ADHD partners blame themselves for anything negative and the shame cycle sends them into that defensive anger because it's only validating all the negative things they've been told all their lives. And who wants to feel like a moron? We all want to feel like we're awesome. Then give some space. Then when things resolve for him, bring up your hurt at a later time in a non-attacking way.
22 years is an amazing fete! Clearly, you ARE a patient and loyal woman who has supported him in more ways than he knows! You're still there for goodness sake! That's very supportive. And you've put up with a lot I'm certain. Hang in there and I hope my little experience shared helps in some way. At least know you're not alone.
Best regards,
LadyLee
Thank you
Submitted by hldaniels88 on
Lady Lee,
Thank you so much for sharing this. I'm new to this site, as well as being new to marriage and new to a husband with ADHD. We have been struggling so much lately and what you wrote is exactly what I have been dealing with. I have never been called a selfish person in my life but it seems that now it's a daily occurrence because I'm not understanding how I'm hurting his feelings or my way of helping him isn't what he wants.
We have talked about divorce quite a lot but both of us want to be married to one another. I was feeling a bit more hopeful after getting in touch with a marriage counselor but then came across a few other posts on this site about whether you would still marry the same person if you knew what you would go through. All the replies were understandable but disheartening. Your post has given me a glimmer of hope. I know it will be hard work, but it does make me feel like I can do this.
Thank you so much for making my evening.
xo
Hello elleleen....
Submitted by c ur self on
When my wife (she is clinical level add) and I hit these road blocks to communication as you are discussing here (which can be often) I've learned what not to do...One is never press w/ words that can't be heard, and only causes her sensory system to shutdown...Two, never feel pressured to agree with what isn't right for me, or that I feel is unwise...Never "point out" her issues, allow her to be her own adult...Listen w/ out interruption, no matter if I know right away what she is saying isn't going to fly with me...Be kind, if I can't I need to walk away...Just recognize she isn't capable (never shown the ability to be, where you can trust it) of following through w/ most of the things she would like to be able to....
I've found out that with acceptance, boundaries, and kindness, I can be her husband, and not be negatively impacted most of the time...The reality of what is produced by her living of life, is usually always different than what is spoken by her...Most adders like my wife can't be listened to about life thoughts, wishes, I'm going to do this or that, they must be observed!!...I have learned to never put stock in her words...I know I can't trust most of them....That way, my emotions aren't effected, I don't feel disappointed because I believed something so strongly (self inflicted suffering) I put faith where life has taught me I cannot....
We own it to ourselves to never be tossed around by the coat tails of our spouses, who are lost much of the time, in their easily bored, easily distracted, and easily self absorbed life styles....Love them, accept them, but never trust them to follow through...Set boundaries in the things you cannot share or trust them in...Then you can live a happy and responsible life for the most part...Or at least that is what I have found that works for us....
Many Blessings!
One other thing you might experience with your spouses, where most of us put the most care, concern and effort into our marriage relationships...You will find many mind types add/adhd puts the least...My wife puts much more effort into keeping her words to children, grand children, friends, and co-workers....Maybe shame causes it??...And they know we already know them, so they don't have to hide their true selves....Anyway, that is a reality, that if it could be healed, would be great for trust in our marriage....And, it's been better lately, for that I'm thankful....
By the way if you (like I did for so long) have spoiled your spouse (co dependent and mothering) they will not like the boundaries, but is so good for them to grow, and for you to have peace....
c
Oh, yeah.
Submitted by Brindle on
We've had the same stuff happen here so much over the years. When we first married, I was very anxious every time he threw out some very risky plan. I'd quickly begin pointing out the major pitfalls, and every time, he'd get so upset that I crushed his dreams. And the non-risky plans, I let pass by, which soon taught me : almost nothing of what he plans ever happens. So after awhile, I stopped objecting to very much. Only when I saw a risky plan would be easy for him to follow through, did I speak up.
These days, YouTube is my friend. He loves to watch YouTube videos about his latest plans, and the YouTubers who make videos essentially make my cases for me: this is expensive, this means you'll need to work out the kinks, this means it will take years to make happen, etc. YouTube makes all my objections for me, and he actually listens to them.
There have been a few where YouTube couldn't stop him. I did speak up for those, also. And yes, I got told that I never support him. The truth in some of those situations is that I did give practical support to him, even as I hated what he was doing. And that still wasn't "supporting him" in his eyes. I've found that sometimes what he really means by support is for me to entirely agree with him and happily and enthusiastically say "yes! That's a great idea!" In his eyes, sometimes I don't even need to actually give practical support and help, I just have to tell him how great it is. That's more of making him feel good, and I bet he feels he does need that, because he's been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism. So I try to back him up wherever I can, even if it small. Now, word of caution: my husband doesn't remember that I've done this in so many other ways. Not at all. He lives in the moment and brushes everything with the same broad brush. To him, I never sacrifice or compromise. Of course, that isn't true at all. But can he see the effect his adhd symptoms have on me and the family? No way. I've had to work again and again to accept and absorb the fact that my spouse will always see me as the bad guy, as long as he won't own his own behaviors, patterns, and attitudes. It really, really, REALLY isn't fair. But chafing at that fact and trying to change it only makes me more unhappy. After many years of bitterness and cycling depression over this dynamic between us, I'm finally accepting that he cannot see past himself in many ways, and that is who I'm with.
Take care of yourself as much as you can. It's hard on us to be the voice of reason and to be railed against, year after year.
Difficulty negotiating "Parenting" with my DH
Submitted by Nat Mitch on
I too have difficulty negotiating the "brilliant ideas" of my ADHD husband. He does have great ideas, yet the pie-in-the-sky plans for accomplishing them are often more costly than neccessary. Rationality is a constant balancing act in our household. In the past (36+ years), we have faught about this alot. We have tried a solution of him staying within an allowance amount, but I found that it was impossible to manage that without constant controversy, because I'm too thrifty. So our most recent system has the folliwing requirements: ALL of the current monthly bills must be paid, and Enough money for next months bills must also be set aside in savings, BEFORE he starts a new adventure. This arrangement helps to keep the project from doing irreparable financial harm, while still allowing him autonomy to spend on the project without me harassing him about the cost. So far, this has helped us.
I'd like to table another minefield we are struggling with currently, "Parenting" vs "Bringing ADHD symptoms to light". Any suggestions from the ADHD community would be helpful.
Here's the scenario:
Whenever I mention to him that a particular ADHD behavior/symptom is causing difficulty for me, and that I need him to be to be more cognizant and vigilant about reducing its effects on me....He goes into denial, turns the issue into me blaming him, and he blows up. I hold my patience for as long as I can, trying to negotiate his emotional minefield, but I find myself drawn into the fray. I'm seeking his acknowledgement of the symptom, an apology for the effect it is having, and a statement that he'll work on it harder in the future. So far, no success, just more drama! I can't seem to figure out how to bring up an issue, because he is a ticking time bomb.
I'm at a loss as to how to defuse the guilt bombs and make forward progress.
Hoping someone can chime in on this with a way to find more harmony in negotiating a truce.
I have a similar issue with
Submitted by Harried Husband on
I have a similar issue with my ADHD wife. She is chronically unhappy with her circumstances and is always trying to find different ideas, different strategies, different options for how we live our life as a family. Sometimes I go along with it, sometimes her ideas just seem too expensive and unreasonable and unworkable. Anything I have ever said no to, she has never forgiven me for. Every time she is in one of her negative mood swings, she attacks me for the ideas I did not want to go along with, and she either forgets or downplays the many ways we have altered our lives to accommodate her ADHD and fatigue and chronic pain issues. The thing is, I WANT to work with her, but I feel hopeless. I fear she will always be unhappy, she will always focus on the negative, and she will never forgive me for the times when she did not get her way.
Familiar
Submitted by adhd32 on
I often hear how unsupportive I am when I don't support the latest brainstorm. Most of the time the ideas don't come to fruition. But when I have to really put the breaks on, I am told that I NEVER support anything he proposes and I ALWAYS take others' sides. It is hard to be supportive when you can see all the holes in the plan and potential financial disaster if the plan were to allowed to proceed.
Identical situation
Submitted by Exhausting on
I have the identical situation. I recently advised my husband that I wanted to wind down buying any more of a particular commodity (don't want to mention what here - but it's legal). In the last two years we have lost $100K and I am not prepared to put anymore of my money into an activity that is not making money and is certainly not the Golden Egg that he thinks it is.
I have come to the conclusion that, whilst the ADHD brain keeps coming up with new ideas, it is stimulated and feels like it has a purpose. Once you take away that stimulation and purpose, they don't have the tools to find something else that is less risky or gives the same "buzz". I think non-ADHDers have the ability to shift and change, but ADHDers don't like change and can't adjust quickly.
When I don't support an idea, I am told I am determined to see him fail, I've never supported anything he does (which is so far from the truth - most things I go along with just to keep the bloody peace!), and then all the insults about my lack of intelligence, being dumb as dog sh!t etc etc etc follow. The reason I don't support the idea is because it is a continuation of something that has already failed in the past!! When I raise this, I am told it's because I didn't do things properly .. if I had, it wouldn't have failed. It's a no-win situation.
So, how do you communicate your feelings? It is not easy, as they only want to hear what they want to hear. Sometimes you have to offer a compromise, or if you stand your ground and it goes away for a while, it will come back.
I don't have the answer, other than my resolve to leave as I don't think the battle will ever be over for me.