In the summer of 2019 my now 14 year old daughter was diagnosed with ADHD. After we had her start seeing a therapist and getting her symptoms under control, my wife of 19 years also started to see a separate therapist. This therapist, without having met me, and through the descriptions my wife gave was convinced that I was a narcissistic emotional abuser.
My wife had told me that she was constantly upset, and that she no longer liked who she was when she was with me. I cannot deny her feelings. I was angry a lot, I was drinking too much, and I was providing no help with my daughter's ADHD because she didn't seem that different than me.
And then the pandemic started. We relied on each other by force, but were no longer living as a married couple. She was convinced I was abusive. I was convinced that she should lighten up. In the spring of 2020 I lost my Dad to Parkinson’s, but couldn’t have a proper funeral because of Covid.
In the fall I finally was ready to seek out marriage counseling and felt comfortable with the pandemic. I thought things were going well, so over celebrated on Halloween night, and said some terrible things under the influence. I tend to get emotional when I drink too much. 2 days later she asked for a divorce during our therapy session.
I immediately went into a regroup obsession mode. I found books about anger management, sought help to significantly reduce drinking with a therapist. Read everything I could about saving my marriage “even alone”, and about being an emotional abuser. The problem is even my therapist agreed that I didn’t fit as a narcissist. I was too self aware and exhibited no desire to control or knowingly manipulate. It just didn’t fit.
For all of 2021 we have still lived separately in the same house with our kids. Still with this specter of Divorce over my head. After Christmas I asked her what she wants to do and she still says she wants out but doesn’t want to subject our ADHD daughter to the pain. She “doesn’t trust that I won’t revert back, and she doesn’t want to live in fear”. So I went back through all of my learnings, and was still feeling like the root cause is missing. I was listening to a podcast on Additude Magazine about sleep for my daughter when I found an old interview with Melissa Orlov.
It has been said before, but it is like she had a microphone in our house. Every aspect fits for both me and my wife. Whirlwind romance, had kids and everything ground to a halt and I stopped heavy exercise because of the kids (rugby was too dangerous). She started to nag, and I started to recede. We moved states to be closer to her parents, but nothing I do is enough.
I have my final evaluation for undiagnosed ADHD on Wednesday. I am all in on starting treatment. Meds, exercise, therapy, whatever it takes. I hope I’m strong enough to stick to it alone.
So my problem is, how do I get my non ADHD wife to come along? Most of the posts are from non AdHd side where the ADHD won’t try. She won’t even look at the book. I know I will have to demonstrate a change. And since she has not been in a rush until now I still have patience but…. Have others been here? How do I get her to believe that I’m not abusive, just distracted? I NEVER MEANT TO CAUSE HER PAIN.
How do I get her to believe
Submitted by Giorgia on
How do I get her to believe that I’m not abusive, just distracted? I NEVER MEANT TO CAUSE HER PAIN.
Hello, these two sentences have inspired me to comment, that's why I am placing it here.
So first, I believe you can do it. I hear a lot of determination from your words. It seems like you are now really focusing on saving your marriage. And it seems like for the first time you are finally finding the root cause of most of your problems.
And in many ways it is unique that you are willing to really look at yourself and your actions. It might be uncomfortable but it is a key to win your partner's trust back.
From my point of view what would be important is:
You have to let her know that you see where you caused her pain and how many times. Because if you are not able to see what is causing her pain you will hurt her again in future. But she already had some much pain caused by your behaviour that she knows she can't take more of it for her sanity and health.
And that's why she doesn't want to continue. She doesn't like who she is, she would love to be a loving wife but it happened to be very difficult to love someone who is not acting in a loving way but makes you feel disrespected so often.
She had enough of this. Your challenge is to make her believe that you see what where the situations and where you were wrong. Because again if you can see it - you can decide not do it next time. But the problem with ADHD usually is that you can't see it and that makes you feel so convinced your partner is the wrong naging one. You can't connect basically the two things together. She is naging because of your behaviour - but you can't see that she is asking you to adjust the behaviour. You see only the naging and you get defensive which is adding only more hurt for her.
Anyway - back to two sentences - honestly at this point - saying you are just distracted is basically for her the same as being abusive. I don't think she has some capacity to be understanding right now she has been understanding for too long. I mean yes she can read all the books about ADHD there are but it will honestly not change the fact, that the behaviour you showed was abusive to her.
Just imagine a situation - there is a couple and there is love. How does a love look like? For me ( and may be for your wife) it is paying attention to the partner, listening to them, admiring them and focusing on them. It is going extra mile for them and being there for them and helping them and supporting them.
And now how does love with ADHD looks like for non ADHD partner- ? She ( may be your wife too) feels like she has been tricked - the love she is receiving from her ADHD partner is the "love"- that is not paying attention, that is not listening, love that is not supporting and not focusing on her.
So yes it feels like an abuse if you were expecting to be in a partnership where you are supposed to be loved but what you are getting is the opposite of what a love should look like. And she has been staying for so long because she could kind of feel you love her ( and you are not just a narcissistic liar) and you mean well but that was not what she could see in reality. Because in reality the behaviour looked very close to narcissistic behaviour.
What I am trying to say - you saying you never meant to cause he pain - is good. But that will not make her want to try again with you. Because in that sentence it is not showing at all that you will not cause her pain in future. Because if you didn't mean to cause her a pain why did you?????
Wasn't she telling you what she needs you to change and what is not making her happy?
If you can focus on seeing all this things that went wrong you can then change them in future and that will make he believe she might still feel happy with you in future. And that's what she wants she wants to feel loved. But the way how you show her love is by - listening, being there and focusing on her supporting her with all the things she has to do etc.
It might take quite some humbleness from your side but is needed because she felt neglected for a very long time.
Best of luck! You can do it!
Demonstrating change
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
"I know I will have to demonstrate change."
I think that is the key. I am one of the many non-ADHD spouses you've described whose spouse would not try. However, if he had tried, I would have needed to see the "proof" for quite some time before believing the change was real and sustainable. For context, you have a marriage the same length as mine was and a daughter the same age as mine! To stay (my ADHD husband and I separated a year ago), I would have needed to see him take responsibility for his ADHD over a long period of time without expecting anything from me. I would have needed to see results like taking on more household responsibility, taking an active role our daughter's life, lashing out verbally less and holding down a proper job.
And I say this understanding ADHD fairly well. I know it wasn't personal. I know it was ADHD. But his behaviour still hurt me in life-changing ways so intentional vs. unintentional can only matter so much. Also, I can't speak for your wife, but my own mental and physical health was at a dangerous breaking point at the end of my marriage and if I didn't make it all about saving myself, I probably would have died. If she has reached that point where nothing you change would make a difference, you may have to accept that. But you can still work on you... I think your commitment to do whatever it takes is inspiring.
I think if you can demonstrate long-lasting change independently, she might be more willing to read the books and understand ADHD's impact on relationships at that point. You'd be giving her a proven reason to believe and possibly participate. I know if my husband had worked on these things early in the relationship, I would have had the optimism and energy to be an amazingly supportive spouse. But time and repeated patterns wore me down and I gave and gave and gave. 19 years in, there was nothing left to give in support or understanding--even if he was full of optimism about treatment.
1melody1 feedback
Submitted by MidwestRed on
I absolutely appreciate the feedback. I'm just starting this journey, finally with open eyes to the problem. Every good relationship book has the same advice: change yourself; be the change without advertising it; build connection. I've been trying, but with symptoms blocking my path.
It is interesting to me that I knew only a little about ADD/ADHD in the 80s/90s and it was always about the kids who were "trouble makers" or who "couldn't keep up" or stay in their seats. Since I was a good quiet kid with great grades, there was no way I was getting the time of a counselor.
It's sad that I never knew until now. It's sad that it had to get to this point. I spoke with my 70+ Mom and she didn't understand how it could be possible as I wasn't what she thought of as ADHD kids. Until I started describing other symptoms such as not finishing, avoiding starting, outbursts, etc. But this was our "normal" household as these symptoms were exactly her and my Dad! She might finally get evaluated now as well. It would explain a heck of a lot of things frankly.
Hopefully I can write the success story soon.
Start Your Journey with Measurable Change
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
You mention the abuse that you have heaped upon your family when drinking and how emotionally unstable you are when drinking. The first change I would recommend is that you stop drinking. Completely. See what happens to your life. The damage that the alcohol leads to in your life is not worth the 'benefits' of drinking it. Plus, it's likely a big deal for your wife and child.
Second, download my free treatment e-book and start working on other elements of better managing your ADHD. Perhaps better sleep (make symptoms less severe); more exercise (good mood stabilizer); get the meds correct (all sorts of benefits)...what you choose should be based upon your target symptoms (see the treatment ebook for info on this).
Third, it's your job to be respectful to your partner, even kind. At the moment your partner has an emotionally volatile partner - one she cannot trust with her heart, her life, or her child. She never knows when you will blow up (though she probably knows that if you're drinking she should go elsewhere) and that puts a lot of stress upon her. It's also likely that you have some organizational, time management or follow through issues that could be improved with better support structures.
There is much you can do. Non-ADHD partners tell me over and over and over again that once they see their partner is actually fully engaged in the 'business' of managing their own ADHD and becoming more reliable partners they find their hearts lightening up and become more willing to engage in the process of repair.
Re: Change
Submitted by MidwestRed on
Thanks for the great advice. I've already gone down the path of cutting drinks out, as it just doesn't do anything for my life. Having a few drinks together used to be something we did, but more for fun and enjoyment of trying new things. I'm more than happy to find something that doesn't ruin my next day and light up my emotions as a hobby.
I'll certainly have a look at the e-book and already have an MD appointment as well as starting therapy with an ADHD specialist this time. I've tried to be super kind, but she has done a great job of blocking anything I do that could be considered helpful. It goes to having made a decision that she wants to stick to, and without a root cause before now, there was no way for her to believe.
The great thing about being human is that we don't have to change our minds, but we can make new decisions. She decided to leave. With the right inputs, perhaps she can decide to stay!
Response from Non ADHD Spouse
Submitted by C-love (not verified) on
Hi bypadget1,
I am the Non ADHD Spouse and my story fits yours quite a bit. I have accused my ADHD husband of being a narcissist. ADHD and Narcissism can look alike unless your really educated on it. It sounds like you see the difference. The fact that your willing to even look at your part shows that your not narcissistic. I was also on the way out the door a month ago and have written a post on this forum in response to what worked for me as the Non ADHD spouse. My experience with my husband is that my loneliness comes from him not being able to engage with me and being constantly distracted. We as woman are drawn towards intimacy and connection through engagement, intentional conversation and being known, heard. All of these are missing in an ADHD relationship, at least they are for me. I have begged my husband to "see" me. His message to me for years has seemed to be its all about me and I will get to you when I have time. In the moments he would get to me,, it was forced, fake and dripping with resentment from both of us due to the ADHD affect on marriage. (See Melissa's book)
Each ADHD experience is different for each individual that has ADHD. What is your loudest symptom looking back on your marriage? My guess is your wife wants to finally be heard, understood what she is going through on her side. Most of her time with you might have been alone in marriage. The worst thing to do in marriage for a man is to leave his wife alone in marriage and for a woman to disrespect and shame her husband. I am sure both things have happened in your marriage as they have mine. (Again, reading a ton of books with this info I am giving you). My husband became much better after taking on his own mental health instead of doing it for me. He also saw my anger sadly and the affect of his ADHD on our marriage. He still struggles to see a lot of his side because my voice has been louder. My nagging and being in the love deficit for so long has become the person I dont like anymore. I feel so taken advantage of, used and angry. I have had to come to terms that what my husband is doing isnt intentional, and try things different.
When I decided to work on my marriage instead of leaving it came down to this -
1)- I am a Christ follower and I am committed first to God and then my husband and the institution of marriage. I believe it is more about my holiness than happiness.
2)- My husband is taking on his own mental health instead of me. The meds have doubled and he is in charge of his steps to become better. He told me his action plan on managing his symptoms- This gave me hope. I am no longer managing his mental health. He wants change. Thats accountability
3)- He came to me and told me he finally see's me. He see's the distraction, the loneliness. He pauses after he interrupts me and says sorry, or has a blow up and comes down stairs and says I heard myself. All of these steps by him are showing me how vulnerable he is and has shifted my perspective on him and I have a huge amount of respect now at how hard he is trying.
4)- Key Point for me was his emotional awareness. - Because I was afraid of him being a narcissist the more accountable he was in seeing himself and being self suspicious over his temper, blow ups etc, has dropped my fear and now I see the ADHD. I see the mental struggle, not my husbands character defined by it. Because of his awareness, vulnerability, affirming me and how it feels in relationship, even grieving with me the marriage I wanted and didnt get.... all of this has changed my perspective and has me doing it DIFFERENT.
I hope this helps you. I will always advise anyone to pray to the one who instituted marriage in the first place. (I realize not everyone may believe that) I have seen a true miracle in ME vs my husband that I believe only God can do. Mercy and Grace. That is the only way my marriage works. Ironically my husband gives me more Grace than I give him, until now. Until he grieved with me that I didnt get the man, the marriage I thought due to the hyperfocus, not until he saw that with me, did I feel seen, heard and known. I hope you can find some nuggets in here to help you. In the meantime I will pray for your wife and your marriage and family.
Blessings,
Cortney
2 months later
Submitted by MidwestRed on
After getting a diagnosis in February I followed up with my general doctor (3 weeks for appointment) who told me I had to see a psychiatrist as he wasn't used to this sort of thing. The in house Psychiatrist had an opening 10 months from now! Luckily I found someone else. So scheduled and after 2 more weeks, I'm finally on my second week of meds. Slower process for me than my daughter whose Pediatrician was well versed in ADHD. Adult doctor was not prepared. I wasn't sure what I was going to get for help from psychiatrist / phys assistant, so haven't scheduled therapist yet.
Much of my problems from ADHD appear to be manifesting in my relationship with my wife. I'd like to find an ADHD friendly marriage therapist, even if I only go alone for a while. I'm not sure if that makes sense, or is that easy to do, but the only way to find out is to ask.
I kind of don't have the open time / money for both personal therapist, marriage therapist, psychiatrist... no. That's not true. I'll make time and do whatever it takes. Does anyone on here have experience going to a marriage counselor alone? Did it help? Or should I be doing personal to start?