Something has been bothering me all morning. I was on here earlier and was going over posts and keep seeing from folks with ADD/ADHD saying that the non-ADHD/ADD partners have too high expectations. I am so not able to understand this line of thinking because I keep coming back to the fact that the non-partner is the one doing most or even all life "tasks". How are we, then the ones with too many or too high of exepctations? My husband expects that he has clean clothes, dishes and food in the house when he is hungry or needing clothes to put on, regardless if he has bothered to take care of any of these things in months or ever! I know he knows clean dishes, clothes and food do not just magically appear. How is it that when I do 95% of the work and expect he do anything to help me out it's "too high expectations?" I just don't get the logic there! How is it that my husband expects me to have ultra understanding about his disorder yet I am expected to act like a perfect robot making no mistakes and having zero feelings? It just seems like the complete opposite to me. It seems that it is not our too high expectations causing the problem but the fact that many people with ADHD/ADD believe that everyone that has any expectation are expecting too much. I really am trying to understand the logic and not jus dismiss this feeling that ADHD/ADD'ers seem to have.
Non-ADHD/ADD spouses have too high expectations?
Submitted by Asetamy on 06/15/2010.
Amen to that!
Submitted by Sueann on
I've accused my husband of thinking there is a "dish fairy" that comes and does all the dishes. He honestly thinks we don't have to any housework if we don't want to. That's for me too, if I don't want to do something (like laundry) "it wll be all right". He's not "making" me do it, to him "it wll be all right" if nobody does it. I'd like to know what he expects to wear to work.
I tell him most kids outgrow magical thinking by the time they're 6!
I do not understand
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I have a knee jerk reaction to the word expectations myself. Maybe its an ADD thing, or perhaps an anxiety related issue or both. I don't know. I see wants and needs as different than expectations.
I see nothing wrong with having a want or need to have a husband who takes on a fair share of the chores. But you cannot expect someone with a brain disorder to do it.
It is not fair to you to have to pick up the slack. It is just an unfair as anyone married to any person with any disability who has to pick up the slack. But the fact of the matter is that you are maried to someone with a disability, a disability named ADD. It is unfair to have to push a disabled husband around in a wheel chair all day, it is also unfair to have a husband who struggles to even fold laundry. But it is what it is. Life is not fair.
That is the issue with expectations. They assume that you should have something that you husband my virtue of his disability might not ever be able to do in the way that will make you happy.
Existance is suffering, the cause of suffering is desire
I have never understood why non ADD women do everything for their husbands. It seems that having a clean house matters more than setting and proctecting your boundaries.
This is like having a husband who is in a wheel chair who could learn to walk again if only he tried, and tworked and spent many years in rehab. But he finds it very, very hard and painful to go through that rehab. He has set backs and gives up sometimes. And you being tired and fustrated and worn out, just keep pushing the wheel chair for him.
What if you refused to push the wheel chair? What if he had no choice but learn to walk?
Also, could you accept the fact that he may only ever learn to walk for short spurts and will never run or go on long walks and will still need you to puch him part of the time?
My hubby's job is the kitchen and everything in it. I have not touched a single dish or wiped the counter in years. He has learned that if he wants food served in clean dishes he has to do them himself. Therefore he does the dishes and cleans the kitchen once a day. Sometimes he skips a day, that is fine.
He used to try to not clean the kitchen and would allow things to become a terrible mess. I waited him out. I refused to cook in that kitchen and took my kid to my mother's for meals leaving him at home with a disguting kitchen to cook in. Eventualy he would break down and clean the bloody thing. It has been five years since we have gone through that cycle. It seems to be broken.
If you want a man to know you mean bussiness you don't cave and do his job for him.
That's just it, I'm handicapped too
Submitted by Sueann on
I have several different problems that interfere with my ability to walk. I can, but it's awkward, difficult and painful. I'm also more prone to falls than ordinary people like my husband.
So, I think it's harder for me to do these things than him, even with the ADD. We are also poor, and so me doing my laundry and him doing his makes no sense-more soap, electricity and water are used. So I expect him to do all the laundry because I have difficulty navigating the step in there. Does that make me a bad person? Is that expectation unreasonable?
I do not know how to express
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I do not know how to express to an non-ADD person that there is a difference between needing and expecting.
Like I have said over and over it is reasonable to need or want you husband to do these things. Expecting will set you up for dissapoinment, at least sometimes. That is the nature of ADD.
You cannot expect that I will always come through, especially on time. No matter how great the need is or how much I wish I could. No matter how hard I try. Sometimes, and much more often than a nonADD person, I will fail, or be late, or not do it well enough. That is my disability.
So I should expect him to change because we got married?
Submitted by Sueann on
He had a great-paying job with fabulous benefits when we got married. What was wrong with expecting him to keep it after we got married? Why shouldn't I expect him to continue doing a job he'd been doing for 6 months? Why would being married mean he would expect to not have to work any more? I would not have married him if I knew his expectation was that he would be supported the rest of his life.
I cannot speak for your
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I cannot speak for your husband. I do not know him. I do not know why he refuses to have a job. Many ADD people can hold down jobs. I can, though right now I am a stay at home mom. My hubby holds down a job and has had the same job for three years. He is a professor at a small college.
My mom has held down jobs for up to two years at a time and my father has worked at the same place for 20 years and they are not even medicated or treated in any way.
Maybe you have ahusband with a bad case of ADD or maybe he is just a bad husband. Everything is not always about the ADD. Maybe he is just a free loader.
I can tell you that I have a performance disability. But while I will often fail, be late, do a poor job, I can still perform most of the time. But not always. And sometimes my performance just might not be up to other's standards. If I am properly treated my performance improves greatly, but will never be quite as good or as consistant as a non ADD person.
Reading the word expect in every sentence it is causing me anxiety. I will have to take a break and not respond to posts using that word for a while. I'm sorry.
He is working now
Submitted by Sueann on
It took me over a year to figure out he was depressed (I assumed he found being married to me depressing.) It took his counselor another 6 months to diagnose the ADD, and me another 6 months to find someone to perscribe meds for him, then another 6 months of treatment for him to be willing to even apply for jobs.
He got this job after not being accepted for the first job he applied for with this company. He's been there 2 years. The benefits are not as good and my medical needs are therefore unmet. I still grieve every day because I have to fight with a treatable problem for which I can't get the treatment because of his job. He loves it, and I have not asked him to look for another job. I accept that I will be miserable until I turn 65 and can get Medicare.
I disclosed my problems to him before we married (and don't think that was easy.) I just wish he hadn't blindsided me with his ADD after I married him.
You cannot blame someone for
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
You cannot blame someone for blindsiding you with a disorder they did not know they had. It is like being mad at somone for getting cancer after marrying them. Certainly you can wish he never had it, or that you knew before hand and be angry that he does have it, but not at him for having it. Well you can but it doesn't help.
I am sorry you live in a country with medical care issues. I am in Canada so I can understand only to a point. I wish I knew why you guys don't fix your health care system and socalize it. *hugs*
At least he can get ADD treatment in this country
Submitted by Sueann on
We have had people on this board who live in Europe and can't get ADD/ADHD treatment for adults, the medical establishment there believes it only effects children.
We have some of the best medical care in the world, if you have Medicare or good insurance. But we can't control what kind of insurance our employer offers. I worked for many years in an industry where no insurance was offered to anyone at any company. You Canadians seem to have one of the best systems in the world. For elective treatment, I might have to wait a year or more, but at least I'd get it.
I know he can't help having ADD, but I wish it was easier to get treatment for it. Co-pays are out biggest expense after our rent and car payment. I don't even try to get treatment for myself, because we can't afford to do both.
Oh, well, I'll qualify for Medicare in 9 years.
I Appreciate What You Say
Submitted by Hoping4More on
My question is - given that you will not succeed in all you try to do, that you WILL sometimes fail no matter what your intention - what then? Sometimes I can overlook those things in my ADHD spouse. But sometimes when I don't get something I want or need, I want or need to express it. Therein lies the problem. When I tell my wife that something she did or did not do hurt me in some way, I am NOT saying she should have gotten it right, if only she had tried harder. I AM saying her not getting it right "smarts". She does not seem to be able to ever hear that anything she does hurts me.
Maybe she doesn't want to
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Maybe she doesn't want to hear it because it fills her with shame, guilt, humilation and self loathing. Only she can say. But I know for myself and my hubby that is what it is.
want to be heard
Submitted by brendab on
Miss Behaven:
Hoping4More wrote: She does not seem to be able to ever hear that anything she does hurts me.
Your Reply: Maybe she doesn't want to hear it because it fills her with shame, guilt, humilation and self loathing. Only she can say. But I know for myself and my hubby that is what it is.
I believe you have given Hoping4More a very thoughtful reply. I have tried to first take responsibility for my words/actions that have contributed to the problem and I admit there were other ways that I could have responded by giving examples. I also make no demand for his change of behavior. I try very hard to explain the interaction from my perspective rather than shame/blame the adder.
So can you tell us the best way to communicate so that we can get our point across and know that we have been heard without making the adder feel guilty? Could you give us examples?
Brenda
Constructive Criticism
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Our therapist had us work with Constructive Criticism. People often think that this is just for at work or in school. Between a teacher and a student or a parent and child. But when you are trying to deal with an issue in your marriage someone also has to take on a leadership role. (There is a difference between being the leader and taking on a parent/child relationship)
Practicing Constructive Criticism in my marriage has helped so much. It seems silly but helps. We both have dealt with a lot of guilt and shame and dissapoinment. Especialy my hubby who was verbally and emotionaly abused for being less than perfect as a child.
I will add some links to good articles on the subject.
http://marriage.families.com/blog/marriage-tips-constructive-criticism
http://www.peaceandhealing.com/criticism/constructive.asp
http://www.instigatorblog.com/5-steps-to-providing-good-constructive-cri...
http://ca.askmen.com/money/how_to_250/275_how_to.html
http://www.marriedromance.com/columns/friedman/withoutcriticism.htm
http://www.healthyplace.com/parenting/parenting-skills/children-and-cons...
Also reading the parenting book Love and Logic (and then the website) not only helped us with the children but by applying many of the same techniques to our marriage also helped.
http://www.loveandlogic.com/
Hubby says this one should be
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Hubby says this one should be printed out to the husbands and read by the wives.
http://www.marriedromance.com/columns/friedman/withoutcriticism.htm
I have two children who
Submitted by Asetamy on
I have two children who deserve to live in house free of mold and roaches, yes it would be easier to just let it go, but then how do I live in a hygenic house? How do I just put myself and my kids on my parents (I am over 30) because my husband hasn't taken care of things (after I moved out on him and he moved back on promising to at least try)? Why is it that he "expects" me to have understanding about his need to take a long time to do things or be reminded sometimes 10 times in one day to finish the dishes? why is it ok for one person to "expect" all of this but gives nothing back in return? I could stop doing the things he says he will do but then I end up having no clothes, my kids don't end up eating dinner and I haven't a dish in the house to use. This is not fair to my children or myself. Yes, you are right about someone you marry is someone you should take care of if something happens to them (wheechair bound as your example) but would you agree if someone isn't upfront about their disorder that it is unfair to think I had a choice in my relationship? Had I known my life would be about either living in a disgusting house or being accused of having unrealistic expectations I would never have choosen to be with him. But I am and now I am trying my best to be there for him, but truthfully it gets very hard when that person only sees your wants/needs as constant criticism. Just as an example, I have "waited" for my husband to put away a basket of laundry- for a year! He still never put it away, when we moved I packed it into a box finally. Dishes have piled up for weeks-weeks! I suppose my parents should just be so happy that I come over everyday to eat at there house for a month? Like they do not have their own lives considering they have two grown children that they are done raising. Are these truly my options? Is this the way I must live in order to stay with my husband? Is this the way everyone must love if they married someone with ADHD? I cannot see this as reasonable. If someone has this many problems, I equate it to someone who has autism or another disabilty, where it is considered not realistic to marry. I wouldn't go and marry someone who is autistic and expect them to be 'normal" but then again, I wouldn't marry them at all. True I have stayed with this man but I fail to see how he (and many others with ADHD/ADD) does not "expect" me to have endless patience, do almost all tasks, never be angry or upset or frustrated. I fail to see how many on this site do not have spouses that have "unrealistic" expectations that their spouse will take care of them. The problem with being with someone who has ADHD/ADD is that they do not have realistic expectations because of their disorder. I unfortunately live in a world filled with expectation- the bills be paid on time, the kids get picked up from school on time, house is cleaned so you don't get roaches, I get to class on time, etc etc. It would be much easier for me to just say oh, I'll drop my expectations but then, where would we be with two people that don't take care of themselves, their kids or their house? Oh, yeah our kids would be in foster care, we would probably stink a lot and our house would be full of mold and roaches. I really have no problem with my husband expecting patience and understanding, he has a right to that but then why am I not deserving of that too? Why is it that it's only a one way street? This is the problem I have with the expectation topic, I don't feel he shouldn't have expectations of me because that would be unrealistic! I just wish he would provide me with the same courtesy!
Expectation Clarificaiton
Submitted by amanwithit on
Astemay,
I think there are differences in expectations in all of us. What is unfair for someone to expect may not be for others.
As someone with ADHD I didn't understand how the expectations others had for me hurt them, even though I KNEW FOR A FACT I was not meeting the expectations I didn't understand how it hurt others until I accepted my ADHD. The way a non-ADHD spouse or partner communicates or reacts to an ADD/ADHD spouse can make the ADHD worse.
Whatever expectations you have of another in a relationship they need to be communicated and agreed upon with each other. Once both of you agree to specific "ideas" of what is acceptable and unacceptable in the relationship then and only then is it fair to be disappointed. Saying this though both need to be able to communicate and work together in those times where either party slips.
I personally don't believe your entire husband’s issues are ADHD, for me accepting the disease and dealing with it was a choice I made. It has made many parts of my life better, yet there are things I couldn't go back and fix. Not because I didn't want to but because I was not allowed to. So for me there is only so much I can do.
Somehow the two of you need to reach an agreement that is non-negotiable for basic family needs, it must be something you guys work together on. It can't be one forcing the other.
I don't know if this helps, but be careful to blame this all on the ADHD. There could be other mental disorders or he could just not be a good person.
Thanks you for your insight
Submitted by Asetamy on
Thanks you for your insight and I agree with you. I am not blaming all our issues on ADHD, though it may sound this way in theses posts. Mostly its the fact we do make these agreements only for him to not even really try, or so it seems this way- as mentioned above our marriage counselor thought the same. I think it is his acceptanc of his life being more of a struggle than others. I really do love my husband, though I am sure it may sound as if I despise him. I know that he has difficulties with his perception being different than mine or others. I just would like to clarify that ADHD is an issue in my marriage as it is with others. It is real and does change the way things are in a relationship and unforunately its tipped so that the non-partner gets to take care of everything. I know intellectually that this is not done on purpose but just the same it affects my life in a negative fashion. I want to make it work but it is hard to be supportive to a person who cannot "see" they need help or are unwilling to get it. I do think I am getting better insight as I read posts on here so hopefully things will be brighter, regardless i have to deal with him forever because we children together, hopefully it dosen't get to that point. Believe me I wouldn't have stayed for this long if I felt otherwise!
right there with you
Submitted by controlfreak on
Asetamy, I know you don't know me, but you are saying everything that I feel. My husband and I are at a true crisis right now and I am trying to figure out what to do. He told me that I must have OCD or be a perfectionist because I expect things to be clean. We went through the whole, "if it bothers you so much that you do my laundry, then don't do it." So I stopped, and his laundry has been all over our bedroom for three months. Recently I threw my back out and literally could not pick up anything. Neither did he, surprise, surprise, our house is a pit right now. And we are getting bugs.
He was let go from his job, along with many others, and he is not looking for a new one. Well, we need health insurance, but he says everyones expectations are too much and he just can't look for a new job right now. OKay fine, but how about with your free time you get help with your ADD or depression. NOpe instead he says I just need to find more work okay fine but how do I work two jobs and still raise the children, do the shopping, pay the bills, mow the lawn, do the laundry, and not complain about a single thing, because anytime I get mad then I am out of control or my expectations or too much.
I have no idea how to deal with him. He refuses counseling, because he thinks it is me who has the problem. He knows he has ADHD he reads all the books, and therefor I am the one with the problem because I refuse to accept that his bare minimum is his best.
Yes expectations can be expected of ADD
Submitted by nikkio on
As a special education teacher who has taught kids with ADD/ADHD let me say that expectations are perfectly ok. Adults and children alike with Add(which by the way is not classified as a disability, but nice try), need to learn how to live with structuring their daily activities to get things done. One way you can help your partner is by making lists and setting goals for the both of you. You can not be expected to do everything by yourself and if your partner is blaming ADD for his lack of work around the house, well, I'm sorry , but he is just using that as an excuse to be lazy and make you do everything.
My husband and I both have the tendency to let our Add get out of control, so I make sure we all have duties. I also keep on my refrigerator a magnet board to keep track of changes in schedules with our kids and ourselves, things that need to be purchased, and reminders. Do not put his name on the list, make a general list of things you want daily and things that need to be done w/in a week. Post this list where it can be seen. Talk to him about how you feel about having to do everything and let him know that you are not okay with him not doing anything, but do this when you are both calm. Tell him you are trying to help the both of you accomplish goals in life. There are a lot of resources for adults with ADD, buying him a book and highlighting the helpful tips, so he won't actually have to read the book, God forbid, will help him as well.
Also Bvitamin and Fish oil
Submitted by nikkio on
I forgot to mention that we also take Cod liver oil and B vitamins to help with energy and concentration. These help a great deal! If you try all these things and your husband still doesn't lift a finger, you are doing yourself and your kids no good by staying with him. One thing I have learned over the years teaching is that children are a product of their environment and your kids are not benefiting from seeing your husband unmotivated to do anything.
sorry I wrote a book.
Submitted by ginniebean on
Amestan,
Everyone has expectations of a spouse. That's perfectly normal and reasonable. With an ADHD spouse SOME expectations may need to be adjusted. For a person with a non-ADHD spouse SOME of our expectations may need to be adjusted as well.
How you will communicate with each other to get your needs met I do not know. My best advice is e-mail or text him. The spoken voice and the face to face requests or reminders come loaded with a lifetime of disapproval and fairly harsh circumstances. Many people with ADHD just cannot process what you are saying without having the full brunt of years of what can only be called abusive treatment come flooding forward and blurring what you are saying. Writing an e-mail allows you also to say what you need to say and even to edit out thing you may wish you hadn't or that you could have said better. It allows the distance and time to read and process that information.
Another good reason for writing e-mails is that what you say is seen and understood. It can be read several times so that the tone can be processed, the request processed or what ever it is. When you say something out loud it's gone sometimes before it's been fully processed so only some of what you said has been heard. Auditory processing can be a really big problem for many with ADHD. Then insist that you spouse write back to you rather than try and talk things thru. The extra time needed for someone with adhd is built right in to written communication. For the most part, what I see with spouses in relationships with an adhd'er or a non is that communication is the single biggest issue. Google is your friend, expensive visits to a councellor on how to learn to communicate effectively may be out of the question but there's TONS of good information available if you care to use it.
It may seem strange or ridiculous to write to someone you live in the same house with but the benefits can pay back big. Naturally I'm only suggesting this for the 'real' stuff. Not the day to day grindy stuff that everyone has to deal with. Just as an example you let a pile of laundry wait a year?!? Now that's a communication problem and it's not just the adhd it's how you are responding to it. That you were willing to let a basket of laundry sit for a year says an awful lot about levels of resentment I don't want to even go near or dishes that pile up for weeks. You have a part in this communication problem because I'd have long blown a gasket .. had huge directional arrows printed up and have bluntly said, the laundry is waiting and I am not doing it.
Many people with ADHD actually do have happy marraiges. I was married for 17 years, then raised my two teenage sons, who are now both in post secondary education, by myself. They are truly the light of my life and speaking as a mom, you're right, your children deserve not just a clean home but they also deserve a wholesome environment which does include mom and dad functioning reasonably healthily towards each other. My house isn't filled with mold and there are no bugs. There are a few things laying about I could put away but it's a fairly normal level of clutter. When it wasn't a normal level I paid to have someone come in and help me. Yes, I did have to do this to live 'normally'.
Interactions with anyone are like two people holding a chain one pulls and the other is affected in some way or another. You can't lay this all on adhd some of this belongs squarely in your camp. With the laundry and the dishes you dropped the chain somehow. Do remember that all spouses drop the ball sometimes. Even spouses that don't have adhd or aren't married to someone who is.
Another thing I'd like to address is yes, people with ADHD do have a serious disability, many of the descriptions of it minimize just how serious it is. Unfortunately so do a lot of the books by 'experts'. You will see the highest functioning of adhd'ers presented and the whole 'life changing' events of diagnosis and treatment that made that allowed that person to be this crazy successful and happy person with a happy wonderful spouse and children. Trotting out Einstein, Doctors, Lawyers, successful business people is not the average person with adhd. In fact were we who have adhd to compare our spouses to the wildest of successes you'd look not too good either.
Why this minimization? Why dress it up all cutesey? I don't know. Ignorance perhaps? The research is really new for adults. It wasn't until Russell Barkleys ground breaking research that he published in 1997 on executive functions that lended any real scientific credibility to ADHD. When you make the suggestion that adults with adhd weren't up front about their disorder it's a very unfair thing to say. I was diagnosed in the 60's as a young girl and as you may be aware very few girls were diagnosed back then. Truthfully you had to be really severe to get a diagnosis. (not adhd it was called MBD or minimal brain dysfunction back then)
I was told that I'd grow out of this disorder and so my parents saw no need at all to provide medication and so little was known about it at the time it was thought to be minor and insignificant. The treatment for it was "a kick in the behind" and when you kick a child that often they are going to have some issues. Most of us still have next to no knowledge of ADHD except what we're told and often that just isn't enough. The amount of research that I needed to do has been phenomenal to even find some of the information. Telling someone well you have a problem with attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity or two of the three doesn't sound all that serious. Ok, so you do a little something here a little something there problem solved.
That's very poor information for the person with ADHD if they even get that much. Expecting us to even know what adhd is, how it affects our lives, why it affects our lives and what we can do about it, need to do about it or can't do about it. All we were ever told was that we could do everything but we weren't putting our minds to it. I can understand wanting to know what you're getting into because I've lived it. I was born with it, I didn't ask for it and I was not given any help for it or even good knowledge about it because that knowledge did not exist. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I was willing to try medication. It took my sister over a year of talking with me about it to be willing to try getting some help.
The medication has helped but it has in no way been transformative, it's a struggle every day even with help from meds and other coping strategies I've put in place. (just so you know, I'm not married now and no my marriage didn't end over my adhd) No one is nagging me, no one is forcing me or hounding me to change my life and I've been working harder than I can even begin to express. I was working hard before I knew I had adhd, I knew there was something different about me but I didn't know what. Guess what? People without ADHD knew I was different too but for them it wasn't something I couldn't 'easily' fix. So much for non-adhd people having such great insight into others with the famed self awareness. I read everything I could find related to what I 'thought' my problems were, I fought and fought with myself internally to work on things that were so unbearable to me.
Things like, I forced myself, dreading it each time, to take my children to the park, I forced myself to be a cub scout leader, to volunteer in their classrooms and many other things I had this inexplicable (to me) difficulty with. I can assure you it was like walking thru sludge. It was excruciatingly hard and that's something you just basically have to take my word for. We are being expected to function like someone we can never be. Someone without ADHD. I think we do know plenty about expectations. Not being able to 'warn' a spouse about ourselves? Because as you say certain bad disablities you just don't marry. (now you gotta live with that disablist statment cause that's prejudice staring you in the face.) Even people in wheelchairs get married and they do get jobs and once they have that ramp into the workplace they have no impairment getting thier job done. With adhd that is not the case, in fact sitting right next to the person in a wheel chair in an office guess who is the most impaired person? Invisible disabilities inevitably get minimized because they can't be 'seen'.
I live in a world where bills must be paid and all the other things that this world brings and so do others with ADHD. It's not a knowledge deficit it's not a cognitive distortion it's a disorder of performance deficit. The part of the brain that you use to 'get things done' for us is NOT working. The command just dies somewhere in there. I didn't ask for this disorder, I didn't ask for the treatment I received thru ignorance that many times left me depressed, terrified and in self loathing to name just a few. No one warned us either.
It's truly heartbreaking to me to hear that people feel that adhd, if it were known prior would feel that we're not people who deserve love, marraige or all that stuff that all human adults need and want regardless of ability or disability. There are times it just frightens me for the children. Will they be able to get a spouse? Will they be treated like social outcasts because of the attitudes and narratives of basically the first generation of adults to even begin to get treatment?
You know what? if you weren't there to pick up the slack your predictions would be unlikely. Please don't put out there that people with adhd live in houses with roaches, mold, don't pick up thier children from school and that we don't live in the real world. The real world didn't know about us, had no way to help us (like all children are helped as they grow) figure out the way to go about things so that we could function. Maybe some people do live like that but it's a minority. Enabling a spouse is really easy to do setting boundaries, learning new communication strategies and figuring out how to make things work in a unique relationship is hard work.
I feel for you, please understand that I do have empathy for you. You haven't had it easy and you didn't know what to do and you are still learning. How is it that these men can't pick up anything, or do anything? With rare exception it's the women on here about their husbands. The biggest "have to" is that you have to do something we've always had to do and that's figure out how to make things work without a road map. I know it's not easy and for you, all you have to do is walk away. That's not something you care to do so in that case, yes you need to learn ways of interacting and strategies for marraige most people won't have to. He does too.
Miss Behavin, your story about how your husband now cleans the kitchen and does all of the work in there? Sorry to say this but MAN that's a real stinker of a thing to do. The kitchen is pretty rotten scut work even for people who don't have adhd. It's not easy for them and maybe you need to recognise that no one should have to do it ALL the time. It's one thing to say, ok your strength is this and mine is this but it's quite another to dictate to your spouse that because of a particular strength what they will do. From the sounds of it, your husband put up a lot of resistance and finally just broke on that issue. There is nothing in your kitchen story to learn from except how NOT to treat someone. I'm like you, blunt. So calling this one as I see it.
I am not this person you paint me to be....
Submitted by Asetamy on
First off, I never said that people who have ADHD do not deserve love or marriages!! In fact what I was getting at is that, people DO deserve love and marriage but they need to realize that there are responsibilites that come along with this. If you have a disorder or a disability, this doesn't necessarily excuse you from those responsiblilites, it seems unacceptable to use that as an excuse to not try different strategies in order to better manage life. My husband and I have been to three counselors for over three years worth of time, for all of them to come to the same conclusion, that he has yet to try. Like any relationship, both people must put effort into it or its not going to work. I know that you may think you know what my approach is and that I am uncaring or cruel because I would possibly choose to not be with my husband if I knew that he had untreated ADHD and raging problems, that was affecting his, mine and our sons life greatly. He hid many of the signs and was able to fool me into thinking he was productive, he specifically tried very hard to please me and helped out with whatever during the first months together. Of course this only lasted so long and from then on most everything has been put on my shoulders. Do you actually think I wanted to leave a basket of laundry on the floor? Don't you think I asked nicely many times if he planned on doing it? Do you realize that I would get chewed out by him if I tried to do it, saying that he was about to, only to never get to it? Maybe if you knew the details of my life you wouldn't so easily criticize me and how I am dealing with things! Maybe you could see that i am venting because this is a real issue as you say. Maybe my husband is just overall immature or not a good person but to just analyze me and my life in the fashion you have seems unfair and skewed. To say that all I have to do is walk away, minimizes the almost 10 years I have been with my husband, committed and loving, depsite what your ideas of all parts of my marriage are. If that is how much you value marriage, then I don't think you have any business commenting on someone elses. If you read all of my posts you would see that I am interested in saving my marriage and that I vent with frustrations and ask questions in order to better understand things. Obviously, there are many on here with similar situations and for you to minimize our venting or our methods that work for our marriges seems pretty narrow minded. I don't mind constructive criticizm but maybe you should re-read my posts along with others and see that what you say I/we are being isn't really so.....
How did we get here?
Submitted by ginniebean on
I've read thru my post twice again now to see where I wrote stuff about your marraige.
I'm sure you are aware that there are levels of resentment in marraiges with adhd that can be quite unhealthy. I was only pointing out what to me was stark raving obvious. If I jumped the gun on that then my apologies. Telling you that the non adhd partner drops the ball sometimes too is not exactly a news flash I HOPE. It's true, I have never developed the skill of sugar coating things, I would love to, I mean that, because without hearing my tone or knowing me my printed words do come out (at times) a lot harsher than I intend. It's rare that someone reacts quite this strongly so clearly I was too blunt for you.
It does illustrate communication problems and to me I was just pointing out the obvious.
About the walking away.. I wasn't suggesting nor recommending it. I actually meant that adhd is part of your life because you're married to someone with it. When you're interacting with your parents it's not there or with others who do not have it. It does have a great impact but it doesn't pervade every relationship you have. You can walk away from it.. and it will not follow you. That to me is just the truth and not a crtique or a suggestion.
This thread is about how to communicate between those with adhd and those without. How to get past the sensitivity to "perceived' criticism. I think we can safely say that NO ONE reacts well to what they perceive as criticism. Something I have long said.
There are maybe two lines in my rather long post that mention you or your marriage so how this all came to be about your marraige and my horrendous judgement of it I simply have NO idea. I did my best to provide the best advice I could. I made it clear that you're in a difficult situation and that I understood that. None of us really know the skills to interact with each other easily and we're all learning.
There is a long history of my reading posts from non-adhd partners suggesting that their spouses 'should' have disclosed more about adhd so the other spouse could be informed and make informed consent. It's a raw spot with me because like it or not that is all about blame. Everyone learns in life something called "impression management" people with adhd have to do this double or triple time but how are we to know that we're so much different from others? We've never not had adhd and so when we buff the image like everyone else does we're told we're 'fooling' people.
It's really an unfair characterization of what essentially is a necessary coping strategy not just for people with adhd but for everyone who lives in a world where criticical assessment of others is the norm. I am not saying that you shouldn't feel how you feel, or that you have no right to vent. I do feel it is important to inject reality into situations like this and venting tends to be a means of saying I have immunity from being rational or fair. Unfortunately the venting seems to polarize between the venter and the vented upon. Some of the characterizations many make during vents are extremely generalized and there are casualties.
Sometimes it sounds like people think everyone with adhd is identical there's a lot of use of "they" and "them" particularly on these forums. When I have posted on here as soon as I mention I have adhd I know I won't be taken seriously, my posts will be perceived as excuses or overly defensive. It almost seems that I'm expected to sound like a beaten dog and say things like "Yes, I'm bad, yes, I'm a horrible person, yes I'm a victimizer who runs about inflicting my adhd upon others." because that's 'taking responsibility'. I won't do that nor can I and have any self respect or dignity. It's simply not true.
You get the luxury of venting and people saying oh yes that's legitimate we don't get that. We get you're making excuses or you're being negative. There is absolutely no parity for vents. It's not that we have nothing to vent about, our partners aren't perfect. Our partners often even treat us very badly but venting about it will just bring on lectures and critique.
I recently read somewhere, wish I could find it, that people with adhd are generally quite happy and satisfied with themselves and it's only when they get into a relationship with a non-adhd partner that things go wonky because we make the partner miserable. This was from a so called 'expert'. I have no idea what planet this expert lives on but it sure isn't the one I'm on.
On this site alone, and by no means is it exclusive to this site I've watched the non-adhd partners say absolutely horrible things. Like, could people with adhd just be less evolved? or all those people care about is getting a thrill to pump up thier dopamine. I've seen us called soulless and many other things. I'm told I should not comment upon the GROSS unfairness and discrimination because it's a measure of the pain that person is in.
Yes, people have a right to vent, (except us) and I'd even say I'm pretty darned understanding about it. I know all about emotional pain and I sincerely did not mean to add to yours.
"When you make the suggestion
Submitted by Asetamy on
"When you make the suggestion that adults with adhd weren't up front about their disorder it's a very unfair thing to say."
No it is not, not in my case anyhow, because my husband had been diagnosed many, years before he met me. If someone had any thing that wasn't "normal" about themselves psychologically or physically, I would expect them to disclose this information to me before marrying and having a family. I do not believe that this is out of the ordinary or cruel or unfair. The make up of a person is greatly affected by health mentally or otherwise, I would like to know that I can handle the responsiblities that come with the person I am going to commit myself to for the rest of my life. If this seems unfair then, what do you think is?
I do not email my husband because he will not use a computer, despite the fact that he had his parents buy him one and he left it at a friends house after using it like once(it's still there of course). I do not try to think of things as in us vs them. That is not my mentality about it and maybe there are others on here that do feel like that but I am not one of them. However, there is no denying that people with this disorder share similar symptoms. Some of these symptoms do cause some relationships to suffer, and no not eveyone is the same who has adhd/add, but many people do have similar behavior patterns. It is not out of line to try to find the similarties in order to know how to better intereact with people to keep peace in the relationship. I have specifically asked questions because I need to know the difference between what are things that I really can't expect of my husband and what things I can because I know that you cannot blame all marriage/relationship problems in adhd/add.
I feel like you are accusing many people who do not have adhd/add of being judgemental and having too many preconceived notions that are incorrect, yet you are doing the same thing. You automatically say that what you post will not be taken seriously because you have add, but why must you assume that? I take many things that people say on here that are posted by people with the disorder. I think that the problem is not so much you have a disorder (why you don't get taken serious) but you come off as judgmental and hurt (obviously by your own experiences in the past), with skewed perception of what is actually going on in our relationships or what does or doesn't work for us.
It is sad that your hubby did
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
It is sad that your hubby did not fully explain his ADD to you. Did he lie outright that he did not have it or was he simply uninformed?
Of course many people do not know they have ADD until they after they get married and are now living with someone who can see there's something not right. Even if you do know you have ADD often you do not realise how much it affects the people around you until you live with someone 24/7.
Is this fair? No. It does seem to me that NTs have this need for life to be fair. Something the world cannot deliver.
Everyone puts their best foot forward when they are courting and every one wears rose coloured glasses as well. Even nonADDers do this. I have many friends married to nonADDers who are disappointed that all the things they were promised were not delivered and that the people they thought they were marrying is not who they got.
I imagine even someone with ADD married to a nonADDer can feel cheated ... where did that fun loving, sweet person go and how did they get replaced with this angry and bitter one who nags all the time?
Life is not fair. I have a friend who's hubby was diagnosed with cancer 3 years after they were married and another friend who found out she can't have children 10 year into her marriage.
My own hubby could tell me he was abused in his childhood before he was married but he didn't have the tools to really tell me how it has affected him, it has taken years of therapy to help him work through his being an ADD boy raised by a NPD. Did I get the man I thought I was going to get? No. I knew about the ADD and the abuse but there was no way to know exactly how that would affect myself and our life together. Marriage is a leap of faith.
We can't always come into a marriage with full disclosure, some times we just don't know, people change and grow and life throws us curve balls now and then.
Life Isn't Fair
Submitted by Asetamy on
I do realize that overall, life isn't really all that fair, and I guess that maybe that was the wrong way to describe what I meant. I do understand the concept of dealing with unexpected issues in a relationship, I really do. However, just as I would stick by my husband if he developed cancer, I would also kinda expect that he try and do what he can to treat it. I would expect that he have hope and courage to fight, not only for himself but for his family as well. I wished my husband had been more upfront about the disorder ( he wasn't getting medicated at the point we met but had been diagnosed years before) or at least been more upfront about some of his struggles to take care of his home and self. He said to me a few times " you aren't going to like me once you really know who I am" and i would respond by asking him what did he mean? What didn't I know about? I was confused by his statement because what I knew of him I loved! We ended up having a child in the very beginning of our relationship which naturally put strain on our relationship but at this time he was going to school for carpentry and helped me with our baby once he was born and the chores around the house ( I was actually still living with my family at that time). He finished school, got a good job and continued to make improvements with helping with the responsibilities of our life. We decided to get married and right after I got pregnant again. At this time he had a carpentry job making decent wages and life seemed like it was heading in the right direction. After my 2nd child was born he had landed a union carpentry job and we bought our first house. A few months after he got the union job he called in repeatedly, which got him fired of course. I begged him to go get his old job (the carpentry job before the union job which he worked at for a few years), he said he would try but I could tell that he was lying to me about calling them. He then proposed working at a pizza place deliverying food ( a place we had worked at before our children were born). I knew instantly what this would mean....late nights- they deliver till 4 or 5 in the morning, sleeping all day of course! No weekends off, no holidays off......This basically meant I would be doing it all alone. All family things, I go to by myself, and not just my family things but his too! I told him I would divorce him if he took that job. I sacrificed going to school so he could go because he needed to support us, only for him to turn his back on the career. I could have used that time to go to school and be able to support us. He has now been working at this job for almost 5 years. I stayed with him thinking that when he told me he was looking for work or that things would change in the next few months, that it was true. But it seems that he has accepted this as his life, he has not accepted that he is a grown up, with repsonsibilities and that despite that he has adhd, he's going to have to make it work. I do not think there is anything wrong with wanting your spouse to be understanding and supportive of physical or mental health problems (for goodness sake I am going to be a nurse!) but then you are also kinda saying that you are willing to work to manage what ever health malady that you have. So yes, I feel like he should have been more upfront about his disorder, especially if it was going to affect our lives this much and he would be unwilling to take all the necessary steps to try and better manage his life. I do understand that this is a mental disorder and therefore different than physical ones but I still feel it is important to disclose your health information, physical and mental to the person you are marrying. I am going to school to be a nurse and I do believe that in order to better help people with any health issues they need to be honest with themselves and their families.
I am sorry this post is long
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I am sorry this post is long and there are no paragraph breaks which is very hard for an ADDer to read (most ADD sites insist on paragraph breaks like the ones I place in my posts as it makes the posts readable to an ADDer, I think this may be one of the many reasons why this site is percieved by ADDers as not ADD friendly. I have even heard and read it be reffered to as such things as "The loathsome cess pool of hate and bitterness" or "The blamme ADD site")
Back on topic ...
I had asked if your hubby had not told you about his ADD or not? If he told you about his ADD did you research it before you married? Also was he informed about his ADD at all? Many people with an diagnosis still know next to nothing about the illness or disorder they are dealing with (I am not saying that is acceptable) I completely understand being upset and feeling betrayed by your huby not fully disclosing his ADD to you. Though at this point do those feelings help you at all?
Thanks for the suggestion
Submitted by Asetamy on
Thank you for suggesting breaking up my posts, I literally had no idea! I'm sure that others who do this, are not doing it on purpose and do not understand it is hard to read.
Yes, he told me before our marriage but not before we dated and had a child together. No, it doesn't help me to feel like this but let me ask you, does it help you as someone with (or without) the disorder to feel upset about what could be perceived as a criticism from your spouse or really, does it help anyone to feel angry, upset, frustrated? I do realize you are trying to get me to see that it's better to solve a problem than complain about it. But I already realize this! I have been working on things, such as communication and other ways to manage our lives. I have worked with 3 marriage therapists and have moved out and then reconciled with my husband. We have made chore lists, he has decided which things to take on. I have followed through with my end of things and he has not even failed because that would involve trying! I have been frustrated because of his unwillingness or inability to try, not fail!
My original post was about expectations, and why is it that many people on this site seem to feel that the non-spouse has too high expectations. My next posts were about being honest with your partner when you have this disorder or any other for that matter. I have no problem working with my husband on the problems that we have, whether it is because of the adhd or otherwise, as it is too late to avoid or make more informed decisions (as you have implied). I think that I have posted my posts because of my willingness to try and better understand the thinking behind these ideas from other people. It's not that I feel like I am the only one that has the answer or that I am somehow better than my husband or others that have this disorder. I say whats on my mind just as any other person on here and I try to be respectful of all people whether they have adhd/add or not.
The comments made from Arwen are pretty head on. I don't expect anyone to take advice from me about this disorder and maybe this is why some of the things i say may not make sense to others, especially for folks who have adhd/add. I am still figuring out many things but the one thing that I can say that seems to be prevalent in relationships where one or both persons has adhd/add, is that there is a misconception about expectations, communication and the "difference" between adhd/add brains and non-adhd/add brains.
My marriage is a perfect example of these misconceptions. I have been frustrated by the judgemental comments I receive bt yet I still manage to take away something from these comments. I do respect people with adhd/add, why in the world would I still be married if I though otherwise? I have been trying to take my marriage work for almost 7 years and I have been the one to research, read and interact with others on this site or otherwise, in order to better understand this disorder. I can clearly see that many people are able to cope and manage their lives with success.
My husband unfortunately has yet to be able to do this. It is very hard on my life and my sons lives. It is hard to be the brunt of all frustrations that my husband has because, I do not have adhd. I am constantly being judged by him (and others with this disorder on this site) because I don't have the disorder. Like all people are somehow perfect in their behavior or thinking if they do not have adhd/add. This is what prompted the original post. I just want to make it clear that I am not perfect and that maybe my expectations of my husband are off a bit but I don't think it is really any different for people that do have this disorder. We are all learning and trying our best to cope, no matter what side of the disorder you are on.
depression
Submitted by banaany on
Hello hello!
I must admit that I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but I noticed something in your early posts. The behavior you describe of your husband resembles depression more that add I believe. I've had a depression myself (as the non adhd partner, but with traits) and I couldn't do a thing! It was hard for me to even lift a finger! It's a common symptom of depression. If your husband will be properly treated for this, he will be able to do a lot more. He will not be perfect, but you know that and I don't believe that you expect that from him.
My partner has hurt me greatly in the past, but has now stopped! I really believe ADHD spouses can change! And they will not become perfect ofcourse, but the advantages of adhd/add can compensate this.
Greetings,
Dutch girl.
Help me understand you. I
Submitted by ginniebean on
Help me understand you. I make a post that says you are obviously having communication and resentment issues. (I was more long winded) This makes me judgemental.
I have been characterized as ignorant of how adhd affects relationships despite my actually having adhd.
The suggestion is that it's my view of reality that's skewed and that it's a 'personal problem' when I say I'm being dismissed?
Am I inventing the things that people say about adhd on here?
Would you take advice from a banker with a skewed view of reality?
I want to say this really clearly, I'm not trying to point score, I'm not wanting to take a jab at anyone either. I just want to know if you even see what I'm trying to point out.
I know it's hard
Submitted by arwen on
Ginniebean, as I read your posts, they remind me of the way my husband used to interpret what he would read and hear, and how he would express himself during periods when he had communication difficulties. We finally figured out that the problem was that *he* knew what he was thinking and feeling, but he didn't communicate that information to others and therefore they didn't know where he was coming from when he expressed himself. In other words, he assumed that they would interpret what he said in the same context as he intended it -- without him having communicated that context. Instead, when they listened to him, they would interpret what he said in terms of *their own* thoughts and feelings, and reach a different understanding or conclusion than he had. Similarly, he would interpret what he was hearing based on those thoughts and feelings, and he would expect others to interpret the same information the same way -- ignoring the possibility that their thoughts and feelings might be different from his. I don't know if that could be going on with you or not, but if you are having trouble communicating, you may want to consider this possibility.
You say, "I make a post that says you are obviously having communication and resentment issues. (I was more long winded) This makes me judgemental." Yes, that's the way your statement comes across. It's not judgemental if you say that it *seems* that someone *may be* having communication and resentment issues - this kind of statement describes a perception. When you say X is "obvious", it pretty clearly says that your think there isn't any other explanation. That's judgemental. To most of us, there is a difference between these two concepts.
You say, "I have been characterized as ignorant of how adhd affects relationships despite my actually having adhd." It sounds from this statement as if you think this isn't possible. I assure you from the experience my husband and I have had that it is in fact possible. For some ADHDers, having ADHD makes it difficult to see the impacts of ADHD, and not just on relationships. I would urge you to re-examine the possibility of whether this could be true for you as well.
You ask, "Am I inventing the things that people say about adhd on here?" No, you are not. But that doesn't mean that you couldn't also sometimes be misunderstanding what the poster was really trying to say. Being right at times doesn't mean that you've got it all figured out, as I've learned myself to my sorrow (and please don't misunderstand, I'm NOT saying that you think you have it all figured out -- I'm just making a very general statement -- I have no idea whether you think you've got it figure out or not). What I'm trying to say is that in some cases, you may be interpreting what people say about ADHD on this site in a way that is informed by your experiences but that may be different from what the posters mean.
You ask, "Would you take advice from a banker with a skewed view of reality?" I don't know any bankers who *don't* have a skewed view of reality, lol. So do a lot of other people, some of whom have ADHD and some of whom don't. I take advice from people who can explain their advice in a way that makes sense, i.e. that sounds consistent with what I know from my large body of experience. To be frank, neither your viewpoint, nor the viewpoint of the poster to whom you were responding, seem to make complete sense to me when considered in the light of my own experience (although I think you both make some valid points), so I would be disinclined to take advice from either one.
I'm not trying to point score, either, nor want to take a jab at you or anyone else. I'm not sure if I see what you're trying to point out. What I think I *do* see is that in your own way you may be experiencing just as much "tunnel vision" or "skewed perceptions" as the poster you responded to may also be experiencing. Having had that experience myself, and seeing my husband's experience along the same lines, I would like to offer what I learned from those experiences: that it's helpful to communication to make as few assumptions as possible, to give the benefit of the doubt wherever possible, and to avoid unequivocal statements unless you are *absolutely* sure. I know that's hard to do! I've struggled with it myself. But I also know it can sometimes really make a difference in improving the understanding between ADHDers and non-ADHDers.
Parents with ADD kids can't walk away from it
Submitted by Sueann on
I have 2 daughters. One most likely has ADD but she's satisfied with her life (she just lost her latest job, in fast food) and sees no reason to do anything about it. (Her son also has it.) I am long divorced from their father and neither of us has ADD (go figure!). But I love both daughters and my grandson, and the option of walking away from ADD does not exist for me.
I married a man with (undiagnosed) ADD. How would I have known he would decide, 6 weeks into our marriage, that he didn't need to do his job right any more??? How did I know he doesn't believe in doing anything when he comes home from work? He knew I am handicapped. He'd seen the scars from surgeries and the car accident before he made the decision to marry me. But the serotonin or hyperfocus or whatever it is from falling in love concealed his true nature from me. I would not have married him if I'd known he didn't intend to work after marriage. That is what I wish he'd disclosed. I do not think that is unreasonable. I am sorry you think my job is to give and give and not get my needs met.
I am a parent with an adhd
Submitted by ginniebean on
I am a parent with an adhd child too. When someone without ADHD goes and spend time with another person who does not have adhd does adhd affect that relationship? OR ARE YOU TAKING A BREAK? You can walk away as I said, I can't. In extreme cases yes, parents and spouses also do walk away permanently.
ADHD is an invisible disability. When you're both sitting down who is the most handicapped? How could he inform you if he didn't know? Is that reasonable? I would love to have the luxury of showing my scars but that is not the way it works. Unfortunately for some, adhd can be crippling and what's worse we've been told it's all our fault, that there's not a darn thing wrong with us, you look healthy enough, you just need a good boot in the rear. You would be offended if someone said that to you because your scars are visible. I'm just overly sensitive when I get offended. That is the reality I live with and that others live with.
I'm sorry you feel a need to make me into your enemy. I never said anything about you or anyone giving and giving.
If you need to put out there that our hyperfocus mojo allows us to capture and enslave you in some underhanded plot and that in truth we actually have no redeeming qualities I feel sincerely sad about that. I know you are hurting but is that an excuse to make these kinds of characterizations that are very hurtful?
When I apply for jobs and they meet me...
Submitted by Sueann on
I can see their face fall and the rest of the interview is perfunctory. I don't get the job. It's not legal but they can always find some other way to justify it. Hopefully, as a paralegal, lawyers will know better but I really doubt it. I can't dress professionally, etc. Try having a disability where you can't buy shoes in a shoe store.
I married my husband (as opposed to living together) because of his job with excellent insurance and pension. No, he didn't know he had ADD but he did know he was hanging up on customers and everyone who works in a call center knows that is the fastest way to get fired. So he married me knowing he'd get fired in the next month or two and he did. I should have had that information so I could decide whether I wanted to marrry him when I would not get the pension and insurance and so forth. Having to support him without insurance or the alimony from my first marriage could have resulted in my death (no medicine for me).
People don't understand this but it's a grief for the other spouse like your spouse died. The person who drove across 2 counties to pick me up for work every day was replaced by someone who let me hitchhilke. The person who helped me buy my loom (negotiated with the craft center, borrowed his brother's truck and drove it home) was replaced a year later by a stranger who helped me pack it up for sale so I could pay our rent. I DON"T KNOW WHO HE IS if he's not the person I fell in love with and who appeared to love me. I still see the same face but he's not the same person. And we don't get to grieve, we're just supposed to suck it up and give up our lives to make theirs work.
"right to vent" -- yes, but
Submitted by arwen on
Ginniebean, there is much about this long post of yours that distresses me -- possibly not in the way you would think.
Mostly what bothers me is that it sounds like you have been assaulted with a great deal of ignorant criticism over the course of your life, and if that's the case it would be very natural for you to grow a defensive shell. Although I don't have ADHD, I have been through this experience for other reasons, and I've grown that defensive shell myself. If this has been your experience, I hope that you will be able to gradually shed that shell as I have -- because it's been my sad experience that as long as I had that shell, others sensed it -- and disliked me because of it. You sound like a person who deserves better than that!
And I agree with you about many of the things you say about the "venters" on this site. Except that I think that everybody, both ADHDers and non-ADHDers, have a right to vent (I suspect you actually think this, too -- that you were just being sarcastic in your post).
What I do NOT think that anybody has a right to do when they vent is to express their perspectives as truth when they don't actually know they are true. The things that I've said about my husband I know are true *because he and I have discussed them and we agree on them*. The things I've said about myself I know are true *because he and I have discussed them and we agree on them* (plus I routinely do "reality checks" with other people, including professional counselors). From the way they express themselves, I don' t get the feeling from most "venters" posts that they have done this kind of due diligence.
I don't have any problem with a "venter" saying things like "I'm frustrated", "I'm exhausted", "I'm at my wit's end", or even "my spouse drives me crazy". These are all statements about their own feelings, and they have a right to express them. I do have a big problem with statements like "he doesn't care about me", "she's constantly lying", "people with ADHD are lazy", and so on. These are conclusions, and unless they've validated them with their partner, they may very well be incorrect and unfair.
This is why in my marriage, I've learned to work very hard to suspend judgment until can hash things out with my partner. I used to be a venter, and an accuser, and it was hurtful and wrong, and totally unhelpful to my relationship with my spouse. I learned to treat our conflicts as a puzzle to be solved rather than a manifestation of my husband's bad character. That doesn't mean he didn't have *any* bad character traits -- we both did. Sometimes he did lie, sometimes about really important things -- he admits that. Sometimes he was lazy -- he sees that, too. But these mostly were *departures* from his nature. It was natural, perhaps, for me to conclude he was lying about everything -- but it was also wrong. Just because I was frustrated and unhappy and hurt didn't give me the right to be unjust to him. This is something that I really wish I could get other "venters" to understand.
Thus, I think it's even more inappropriate to extend one's unvalidated and possibly erroneous conclusions about one's own spouse to the rest of the ADHD community. I have many ADHDers in my liife (it runs in my husband's family), and I know from first-hand observation that while there are many behaviors or traits that some of them share, there is only *ONE* thing they all have in common, and that is memory problems (which is why I write more about this aspect of ADHD than any other, and why I believe that a significant amount of ADHD behaviors have memory difficulties at their roots). But even the degree of the memory problems vary. So it just isn't reasonable to judge all ADHDers alike.
Possibly some venters will react to this viewpoint with the sentiment, "My ADHD spouse is being unreasonable about X, why should I be reasonable and suspend judgment?" To that I would answer that it has been my experience that my spouse isn't likely to be feel very cooperative if I'm unreasonable any more than I would if he's unreasonable -- and if we're both being unreasonable, just where in the world is that going to get us? Whereas if at least I'm being reasonable, we have a hope of progress and it's easier for me to live with my conscience. Of course, if I care more about "me" or someone else (e.g. my child) than I care about "us", it may be a different story -- and in some situations, it may become necessary to care more about "me" or someone else than "us".
In sum -- I feel your complaints about the venters are totally valid!
(but please don't fall into the same kinds of errors yourself . . .)
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
We have a happy marriage
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
We have a happy marriage and my hubby is quite willing to let me take charge and wears the pants in our relationship. Also, hubby agreed to do the kitchen at the start but then just didn't do it. Leaving it to get a mess so that he learned was a last resort and thankfully it worked.
It might seem unfair to you that his job is the kitchen well ... I have two children and one on the way and I do more or less EVERYTHING except the kitchen. Did I mention that I also have ADD that is unmedicated due to me making babies? That I also am rasing a son with ADD?
My poor, poor ADD medicated hubby has to come home from his cushy job as a professor and clean the kitchen. While I with my unmedicated ADD and a baby bulge have to do the child rearing, the laundry, the errands, the livingroom, the bathroom, the bedrooms, the hallway, the vaccuming, care for the dog and the fish and then cook dinner.
Perhaps you should keep your nose out of other people's marriages unless invited.
When you post on a public
Submitted by ginniebean on
When you post on a public site like this you are inviting comment. Take a read thru your post because it really does come across pretty offensive based on the information you gave.
I am not going to enter into
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I am not going to enter into a pissing contest with you and I do not have to explain myself or my choices to you.
I stand by my actions regarding the kitchen and my hubby and he agrees it needed to be done. Sometimes you have to be bitch, and sometimes you have to fight hard to be happy and treated fairly in a marriage. I cannot and will not lay down and allow my hubby to sit on his butt all day while I do everything else. His ADD is worse than mine and his coping strategies are not as effective, I will be tolerant, kind, caring, sympathetic and supportive to a point and then after that point he must go to therapy, he must help with the household and he must hold down a job or he can leave. He knows this and understands it and does not resent me for kicking his ass in gear when it needs to be.
I know you from another forum that I lurk on and I know you are smart and have good insight into ADD but I also know you are not married to ADD.
Miss Behavin I really wasn't
Submitted by ginniebean on
Miss Behavin I really wasn't trying to get into a pissing contest, I'm allergic to being TOLD by a self described bossy person what to do. Surely you of all people get that! In that post I responded to, you did come off as an unreasonable bitch but that's just one post in isolation. I realise that. oops. bygones? Wow, talk about stepping in it then sliding for miles.. yikers!
Its alright
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I understand foot in mouth syndrome very well and also not having the context required to make a fully informed judgment/opnion. There is always more to the story than what can be written in a forum post!
I do get upset and even angry at some of the things said here. Its hard to not jump to defend my fellow ADDers! In fact I joined because someone had called their spouse "soul-less" and it bothered me for a whole day. I just had to say something.
I am finding here that the rule "you catch more flies with honey" is working well enough.