I'm reading a lot of comments on here which hit someone with ADHD really hard.
I'm beginning to realize after 25 years of marriage that I should never have got married because I cannot consistently meet non-ADHD expectataions.
I'm becoming ever disillusioned by romantic love and beginning to think that being vulnerable and expressing who I am is not possible in a relationship.because someone is always going to judge, criticise, verbally abuse, derrogate, and destroy my self esteem. Just a warped extension of childhood abuse and being bullied at school.
I know I'm a mess, every surface covered with stuff piled upon piles. Sometimes I have motivation to do something, sometimes not - but I never know when; but I guess I'm not allowed.to be that disorganized. I have moments where I can tidy up stuff and be on top of things. I'm in impressed by anyone who can maintain that kind of approach consistently, just like being impressed by NASA scientists and complex differential equations and atomic physics.
There must be a place for me where I can be appreciated and not ultimately be yelled at for not meeting another's anathema expections. Just haven't found it yet I guess. Beginning to wonder if I ever will. Always been a bit of an independent loner, probably just messed up my wife's life by not meeting her expectations. Suicide crosses my mind when I've been at the end of long verbal attack tirades of derrogative judgements. Often I'll slip into dissociation and paralysing freeze - which do nothing to ease relationship tensions. Trying to work through these outdated childhood based coping mechanisms but it catches me sometimes.
Apparently I'm not allowed to find it difficult to do things anymore, and am always to blame if I forget something. If she forgets something, no problem, it's ok. Same when I'm late.
Doing my best is no longer enough too apparently - as I was told at the end of a angry personal attack rant recently.
Don't really know what to do anymore. I seem to be ever more up and down in extreme. Getting things done can be virtually impossible sometimes because just WTF is the point - because someone is going to tell you that it was the 'wrong thing' to be doing and there were so many other 'pressing things' to be done.
Super difficult to live up to the expectations to a perhaps pathological 'doing' based person who cannot stop because it is 'too painful to face the silence of stopping' - her phrase.
I'm not sure how to show up anymore, every which way is wrong, so I'm losing/(lost) faith/hope completely for a marriage of true connection, vulnerability and love. Walking on eggshells trying desperately to work out what she is expecting to be done is so exhausting. If I ask, I should have known - it was apparently obvious - so another verbal attack ensues.
She does a lot of the thinking, I appreciate that it is exhausting, but dare not now show how grateful I am, because it backfires into another verbal tirade of 'should have'/'lazy'/'useless'/'stupid'.
Perhaps there is no where to turn, except out of the door and live alone. :(
E.
My ex felt similarly
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I believe my ex-husband would have expressed something similar. As his wife of 20 years, I can tell you what I needed from him was not an expectation that I should "accept" and "appreciate" things as they were (because they were just TERRIBLE for me and that HAS to matter), but for him to wholeheartedly treat ADHD. That means getting meds 100% optimized and working with an ADHD coach or therapist every single week so that I could have a functional (not perfect) partner in adult life. That doesn't mean I expected perfection, but I sure did expect more than "well, that's just the way I am... this is my best." There were a lot of things about my husband I appreciated, but the untreated ADHD put way too many messes and fires on my plate for me to appreciate them as time went on. The sense of humour I loved isn't funny when someone is spilling coffee down the cupboards and leaving it for you to clean up and leaving piles everywhere and then getting defensive when I have the gall to ask him to pick them up. Perhaps you've tried every medication possible (there are SO many and they're not all stimulants), each for several months and with varying combinations, but a lot of what you've written here indicates your treatment, if any, is very much NOT optimized. I would ask yourself if this is really the best that you can do... if you've honestly tried EVERYTHING to mitigate the symptoms that challenge your relationship on your end. If you expect your wife to pick up the slack and accept things with a smile indefinitely, it's just not going to work for either of you. If you show with your actions that you're committed minimizing the impact of ADHD on your relationship, you just might get to a place where you can laugh off the rare time you're late, etc.
"Perhaps there is no where to turn, except out of the door and live alone."
Perhaps this is true if the other choice is for your wife to accept the unacceptable. I am the one who asked for a divorce, and my ex is living alone. He preferred this option to making any attempt to treat ADHD because it seemed easier. Yes, in some ways he is much happier letting ADHD run the show. He sleeps whenever he feels like it with no family or work commitments, his place is very messy and it's only him so it doesn't matter, when his bills are paid late it only affects him, he can wash and wear the same single shirt every day because owning more clothes was too overwhelming. On the flipside, he can't organize himself enough to cook healthy food and he is slowly getting more unwell, he is lonely, he rarely sees his child, his friends, etc. etc. It's a choice that certainly makes me sad to see. He has bought into a "victim" story when there are dozens of treatment options at his fingertips he can't be bothered to try.
I would love it if you didn't have to have my ex husband's story, eclectica. You have more power over the ADHD than you think - not the other way around. :)
Wishing you and your wife well.
Exhausted
Submitted by eclectica on
Thanks for your reply 1Melody1, and your thoughts - illuminating.
Honestly it sounds pretty bleak then :(.
I've tried a few medications, for depression and anxiety mostly, some just completely weird me out - spacey, and some panic in there at times. Others calm implusivity but detract from motivation. Can't take even caffeine anymore because of heart palpitations. Not finding many working options, just side effects, so most stimulants are out.
Meditation helps, but my wife is not in agreement with it for some reason - probably projecting her fear of sitting still and letting things come up that she may not have faced.
It's just so tiring trying to be something I'm not. Perhaps I can keep up the charade for a few days, but I'll crash and burn with the overwhelm of it all. Totally demotivating and demoralizing.
If I can't be authentic, then perhaps that's reason to be out anyhow - in whatever relationship? It's not an active choice to forget things constantly, or look at the time and think WTF how did that happen. Or sometimes just not see washing, or washing up. Although often I'll tend to hyper focus and pack everything in the dishwasther and wipe down surfaces repeatedly - and then I get 'you're wasting time' !! :O
I am organized enough to put together many different types of meal from whatever we have at hand, although accurately following a recipe is a major challenge! I often cook to ease the burden on my wife, probably cook more than half of the time. It gets tricky when she demands a meal on the table from raw ingredients within 30 mins, but I do my best.
Self discipline is something I have been good at, and still am in certain areas, but with tirades of criticism, everything is eroded and ends up a pit of depression and not feeling wanted, let alone loved.
I've found out recently that I have a disorganized attachment style. This causes additional issues, with my tendency to want to get close, get afraid, and pull away (i.e. before being rejected/emotionally bruised). It's kind of like some kind of wall comes down within me that says 'no further', I'm then wondering myself what it going on, and how to find the connection again quite often.
Lists/reminders/diaries printed or electronic/alarms/reminders/notes - are just useless and meaningless, in fact quite overwhelming.
I have a lot of emotional regulation and rarely loose my $hit, that helps, I've been told so many times that I'm easy going, kind, considerate, even by my wife at times. Recently at work someone completely messed up a mechanical system which meant I had to climb precipitous 5m ladders to put a part back in place so a structure would not be destroyed. I could sense that the guy was avoiding me, and when I happened to walk into the same room which he was in, he was virtually shaking, I simply said - "It's ok, you did your best, I can understand that you weren't familiar with the system even though you had been given instructions by your colleague". He softened and was visibly relieved that I did not shout at him etc. Honestly, why would I have wanted to shout at him, yes it made me late home from work and had to put myself up a ladder resting on a cross beam, but surely these things happen - we're all human, all make mistakes.
Anyhow, it's late I really should get some sleep. I'm probably rambling, sorry. :d
Eclectica, I am deeply moved by your plight
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
And, I hope that you can find the right kind of emotional support to help you find hope and peace, to the extent that is possible with such challenges. Disorganized attachment is a huge battle in and of itself. This attachment type will typically pair with another insecure toxic type... its a dynamic that naturally forms with insecure pairings. There are excellent resources for help and healing on the web... have you tried Thais Gibson's material?
Also, I've read that adhd partners are particularly susceptible to partnering with abusive or codependent partners, because of the feelings of unworthiness and flawed. So don't blame everything on adhd in terms of being the sick partner. Your partner is sick too, and you can only try to heal and take care of yourself as you navigate the way forward. It sounds like she's got her own work to do to improve her personality (she sounds very controlling! And mean!) but as long as she can blame you, she won't be taking a look at that most likely. If you can develop good boundaries with consequences for her controlling or abusive behaviors it will help you see clearly where she ends and you begin and vice versa. She doesn't like you meditating? It's none of her business, just because jt doesn't work for her doesn't mean squat for you, right? It shouldn't. You have a right to your autonomy.
Big hugs to you this winter morning.
Thank you :)
Submitted by eclectica on
Hi Cantgoback,
Thank you for your support. It is all too easy to blame myself 100% and then some.
I'll take a look at the Gibson material - sounds like a good reference. Thank you.
It is interesting how the pair attraction works in these circumstances. Indeed, sometimes I feel so in a different dimension with spiritual connection with nature and people, I'm not convinced she'll ever get there - but perhaps that's not her calling either.
The thing is, I know I have more internal work to do, not jumping on the populist bandwagon of trauma, but I'm making peace with my Mum's post partum depression and not being able to be there for me, and being at the mercy of controlling/abusive caregivers at a young age. I forgive all concerned, and thank my Dad for noticing and dismissing one particularly harsh 'carer' when I was a toddler. My memory dates from age 4, with clearly somatic memories lodged in my body way before that. Empath state is natural, sometimes exceedingly uncomfortable in certain company as I pick up the atmosphere so overwhelmingly sometimes. I learning to hold a space around me of love, shaped like a giant heart, which helps to buffer the energy somewhat and allow me interact in hopefully more helpful ways without overload.
Honestly, thank you for your words.
Blessings.
If you're blaming yourself 100% for the dynamic...
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
Then her abuse is having it's desired effect. Every single relationship that's damaging and toxic has two players. The angry non's really want to believe that the adhd spouse deserves their abuse, that they are justified in their behavior. You caused it. (Nope! Their behavior is on them!) It does sound like you could use some empathic support to address the emotional abuse you are enduring. You're getting beat up, and on some level believing you deserve it. What she needs to realize is that she has options other than abusing you. You can't change neurodivergence... you can work with it but you can't magically be neurotypical. If she can't accept that, then she's with the wrong person and you deserve better.
Hugs
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I wonder if there is a med out there that would help you more than some of those others you've tried. I can understand if it's hard to try again when the side effects are too detrimental/dangerous with what you've tried to date. The reason I commented that it didn't sound like treatment was optimized is because you seemed so sad and hopeless and that has to feel terrible. I hope you can find a way through - it really sounds like you need support from somewhere in some form for this to feel manageable.
I hear you about relationships in general and honestly, my ex is happier/relieved in many ways on his own as I described for similar reasons you've expressed. He can live on his terms and that's a relief and it is for me as well since I can live on mine. I've read that some ADHD couples find joy in staying a couple but living apart. Then they get all the joyous moments without their different ways of living impacting their relationship negatively. I never tried that but I see how it might work in theory!
I really wish you all the best and hope for happier times for you and your wife.
Accepted as one is
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I do understand the wish of any person to be accepted as they are. It's the thing I can't get past, grieving my recently ended marriage. I couldn't accept my husband as he was. It makes me feel bad.
He had undiagnosed severe ADD for two decades with me, we had a happy loving relationship for years before having children. His symptoms, under the pressure of parenthood, gradually became worse until my life was awful. He was diagnosed a couple of years ago, actually pursued treatment ambitiously, but in the process shut me out and wouldn't communicate or work together with me. I wasn't informed when medication was changed, he didn't tell me his work schedule, how he felt, or what his psychiatrist or occupational therapist had said. All my good intentions were not enough, I guess, because he had seen my frustration so many times and so felt criticized and judged no matter how I tried to accept and comfort him once I knew about his diagnosis. I was also exhausted by years of unacceptable workload and being met by rage when voicing my needs. Our family was isolated. I battled situational depression and desperately needed him to function. The damage couldn't be undone. And he correctly assumed I didn't accept him as he was.
To me, this is the central painful issue. We all need to feel accepted and loved in our homes. We need to relax and let our guards down. If a person who doesn't prioritize at all does this, it means filth, unhealthy habits and loneliness. To a partner, this is extremely unattractive, as is taking every initiative to battle it.
Is it possible for the ADHD spouse to at the same time be on their toes with treatment and behavior change, lists and reminders, and be peaceful and relaxed at home? I never saw this happen. Only him spending endless hours in bed day and night with the door shut, laptop light shining through the crack under the door.
In a way, I've let go of the modern assumption that people have a huge capacity to change. I think maybe we don't change so much. Maybe we just need to acknowledge what we are and what we need.
I hope you will find a way of living that is peaceful, and where you can feel accepted, whichever way you choose to go.
Clear expression of need
Submitted by eclectica on
Hi SwedishCoast and thank you for your reply.
I'd like it if she could express her needs, and could be patient enough for me to ask questions to try and understand where she was coming from - rather than somehow magically being expected to know. Somehow upbringing has taugh us not to express needs, otherwise we'll be labelled the dreaded 'needy'! You know what, I'm just as bad too, but feel guilty asking for something because I'm always being told I'm never doing enough and she's doing it all. Then clearly my needs don't matter, then nor do I, so what's a relationship anyhow ? ! ? !
Personally there is a lot of stigma around being seen as ADD/depressed/anxious or any other mental challenge in society - no matter how much anyone says otherwise. Being an empath, I can just feel it in the room when someone discloses something of a mentally challenging nature. Not going to get many jobs by being completely honest on that one I think. Thus in order to not immediately be at a disadvantage, we keep it hidden, but it is not really hidden because the behaviors and emotions leak out sometimes.
Capacity to change is an interesting one. I know I have changed, because I am not the same person I was when we got married. In many ways I'm more confident, in many other ways less confident.
But i think you're probably right, basic traits remain the same. I've always been struggling and failing to be on time or remember appointments - like for the last 47 years !
There is a perhaps self protective tendency to shut people out if they never accept you. I think that about me and my wife at times, but have found ways to keep breaking down any resentments I may keep hold of regarding her verbal attacks. I can then at least be open to the possibility of what she says is a genuine help not just another criticism from her inner (perhaps unaddressed) pain.
I've suggested couples councelling a few times, but she is not enamoured at all. Understandably, often this comes at the end of a long patch of difficulty and may represent a last ditch attempt at 'make it work' (or, even flogging the dead horse).
Throughout my life I've often shed tears when I think about when I was 8 and being bullied, and just wished with all my heart that people could just be nice.
Anyhow, thanks again.
:)
E.
Trying
Submitted by Swedish coast on
It sounds like you have really pondered over your situation and yourself. I'm sorry about how your wife expresses herself. I wouldn't use that kind of language to my husband no matter how heated the argument.
I can very much see how a non-ADHD partner can tear down an ADHD partner. Really, it doesn't help to say that one perspective is more valid than the other. As ADHD, I imagine you simply need to find what is compatible with you. What people, or what work, will make you fulfilled and give you joy?
I loved how you treated your frightened co-worker. I try to do the same thing at work - showing respect for other's difficulties. The hard years of my marriage have at least taught me something about compassion. Also that we all struggle with our individual weaknesses. We can have all those, and still be brilliant and kind.
You need a safe space too.
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
And this isn't it, not because you don't deserve a safe space for your own feelings and experiences but because this board is widely populated by angry and exasperated son's.
I myself left a non-diagnised partner who demonstrated almost all of the textbook adhd/add symptoms, and ours was a toxic dynamic. Since then, we have both addressed some of the issues contributing to the difficulties between us, and are continuing to relate as co-grandparents and even friends on some level. So, I get how unsustainable the incompatibility can be between adhd/add and non's... BUT this site in particular is fairly toxic in my opinion. The founder seems to have unintentionally encouraged a kind of codependency and overcompensation for the son's, which will inevitably lead to burnout, breakdown, and bitterness.
Few partners here have the ability to leave when the situation becomes detrimental to them, and they give a plethora of reasons why. What results is a level of toxicity that has both partners feeling completely overwhelmed and full of pain.
However, I fully believe that you shouldn't give up on the idea of a fulfilling romantic relationship. If you are in a toxic dynamic in spite of your best efforts and attention to your condition, you may well be with a partner who doesn't have the healthy capacity to partner with you. In spite of any legitimate feelings if frustrations, or an acknowledgement of incompatibility, what you are describing is nothing short of verbal and emotional abuse.
No matter how angry or upset your partner is, name calling, insults, blame, belittling... non of that is excusable. Is she is doing that she is abusing you. She has options for taking responsibility for her relarionship status. If she would rather stay and try to abuse and control you, she's toxic too. This idea that spouses are somehow driven to abuse the adhd partner because they are just so victimized is utterly bull crap! The are full of hypocrisy if they are behaving in ways that don't respect or support you. Neurodivergence is a real thing but many non partners are blinded by their own emotions and reactions and develop expectations around those that are not based in reality. Then when you don't meet those expectations, they become more and more resentful, which you experience as the pain you're describing.
Just as in Alcoholics Anonymous, meetings are held separately for the alcoholic and the codependent, there needs to be a separate space for you to gain support and empathy. Otherwise you will receive the projected emotions of the unhappy non partners here. It isn't to say their feelings are not valid, but many of them are long-timers who stayed too long and their perspectives are shaped by that. Their experiences are not universal, there truly are couples who grow together in spite of adhd, but they don't populate this forum.
I encourage you to expect and find empathy .. pass right on by things that look and feel the same as what you endure from your spouse. I hope you have good therapeutic support from someone who can validate you and help you build good boundaries. You don't deserve abuse as a result of your symptoms and struggles. Having received abuse, you will naturally be impacted by it and develop a hopeless narrative.
For me, it wasn't piles and piles of stuff so much as dysregulated emotions from rejection sensitivity dysphoria... during which I experienced verbal and emotional abuse myself. That led to an impossible situation when it comes to conflict resolution.
Another area of contention was hyperfocus on his goals and life vision at the expense of mine. My choice then, was to separate rather than stay and become toxic and miserable.
Separating allows both partners to find a way forward without doing further damage to themselves or the other. It's a loss and must be grieved, but it's often a necessary step once things become damaged beyond repair. But I don't believe it's a life sentence. It's an incompatibility. To say there is no good partner for an adhd person is not realistic. There is not a 100% failure rate for adhd impacted relationships. The relationships that fail, fail for the same reasons that non-adhd impacted relationships fail: there is not a team. One or both people are not committed to addressing issues in themselves. You shouldn't have to reach perfection and complete elimination of your adhd challenges to receive love, care, and respect without verbal and emotional abuse.
If you are diligent about addressing your issues and can say with integrity that you are doing your best, and you are still being abused as you describe, GET OUT. Recognize that your issues are not the cause of someone else's unhealthy coping mechanisms. You may do better with someone who has emotional maturity and healthy boundaries. I fully believe that dysfunctional people do tend to stay in situations where they feel victimized because putting the blame and responsibility for their wellbeing on another person avoids doing their own work. Whether it's mental illness, addiction, or some other destabilizing factor they are encountering, all adults have choices. You have choices, she has choices. Don't be her victim! And don't allow her to play your victim. She's an adult and if she's behaving like an angry nasty person, develop some better boundaries. Don't allow her to talk to you and treat you that way. Offer consequences. You deserve better even with ADHD/ADD. If she can't deliver she isn't the one.
Hi
Submitted by LongHauler (not verified) on
first of all: Verbal abuse is never ok. You have no obligation to tolerate being called names, no matter how disorganized your behaviour may be. It sounds like you both need a lot of help communicating.
I'm sorry you are experiencing this and are at the "why bother" point. It must be frustrating to not be given clear expectations and a bit of a roadmap. I hope you can have an honest conversation about what you both need and expect, without giving it to making promises you can't/won't keep just to get out of an uncomfortable situation. I reiterate that you should not stay in a conversation that becomes abusive.
you need a plan you can stick to either way - one for staying or one for leaving.