If there are any people on this forum who have ADHD and would be willing to answer a question, I just asked it on another thread but I thought I would open it up.
One of the biggest problems I had with my ADHD husband -- and they spanned the gamut of the symptoms and issues -- was his mess. In the end I think it is the thing that just drove me over the edge. Because we live and work together, it was a daily thing. All day. In the end, his RSD also made it nearly impossible to deal with it as he would rage at me if he felt criticized or if I was at all irritated.
He would, very rarely, cop to the problem. He'd say he was always like this. And apparently he always was according to his family.
In the end it simply seemed impossible for him to change, or to maintain any effort to change. There have been attempts. Maybe there was even something like a 15% improvement. But overall, he remained a force of chaos in the house that I had to deal with, and it just wore away at me. Particularly because a lot of it was small messes that he could easily clean up. EASILY. That's what I say, anyway, but apparently it was not easy for him!
So, I just can't understand this. I would like to understand it better. I can't talk about it with him. So I would like to ask others who have this issue to maybe cast some light on the inner experience of someone who does not clean up, who can't organize themselves, who has a lot of clutter, who makes constant chaotic mess, and who is being asked by their partner to PLEASE do better. What is going on? Why don't you, won't you, can't you, change the pattern? Be more mindful? Remember that someone has asked you 10,000 times not to do something, or to do it, and you love this person?
Do you just not even think about it in the moment?
I really want to understand more.
Controversial first sentence alert lol
Submitted by alphabetdave on
Mess doesn't really matter
Hear me out!!
So, I know a couple, one of whom has fairly recently decided to get assessed for ADHD (I should probably find out how that's going), and the other - I wouldn't be surprised at all if they have some traits. Their house is always very messy and cluttered, we're talking "they were expecting us to come over and we still have to make space to sit down amidst the clutter" cluttered. They have 3 kids which, doubtless doesn't help. But for the most part they just get on with their lives, they accept the mess - obviously there's stuff that has to get done like, cleaning dishes etc, some degree of things getting put away, but there's a level of mess and clutter in that house that most non ADHD folk would find absolutely unbearable. But they bear it, they're happy as a couple - they're a bit more disorganised than most other couples but they bear that too. It causes issues but they mostly manage to laugh them off or just take these things in good humour, because they're not the end of the world.
This couple's lives aren't ruined by the fact that they live in a constant state of more mess than I could reasonably stand (having had an NT partner too long no doubt lol), so on a purely objective basis I would say "mess does not matter"
But, it does matter to you. It's perfectly valid that it matters to you, just like it's perfectly valid that it doesn't matter to the couple I mentioned at the start (who genuinely exist btw!)
I think the hard thing is that it might be easy to expect that if an ADHD-ADHD pairing can sometimes result in the situation mentioned above, and an NT-NT pairing results in a lot less mess and chaos, then an ADHD-NT pairing might result in something halfway in between, but it doesn't, it just results in an awful lot of conflict, and not just in this area. Rather than finding an equilibrium somewhere in the middle we just end up with a clash of mindsets, the one who absolutely has to prioritise living in a tidy and orderly home and the one who absolutely can't bring themself to do so, at least not with any consistency, without some kind of strategy that the NT partner would never need. Both partners, if they're honest with themselves, feel like there are unfair expectations of them, the NT partner feeling like "I'm expected to tidy up all the mess" and the ADHD partner feeling like "I'm expected to be something I can't be".
As the ADHDer in my marriage I can say in my case at least - I don't expect my wife to tidy up all the mess. It's more that mess and clutter don't register to me in the same way that they do to her, I find it hard to prioritise them proactively. I can do it sometimes, but the downside is I'll get little else done. And tbh sometimes this is fine - sometimes you need to have a big tidy up, but my default approaches tend to be either "big tidy up" or "minimal tidying up" - I don't really have any other options available, I certainly can't go round just, passively noticing mess and dealing with it as I go about my day. And this isn't because "it's beneath me" or "it's not important enough", "I can't do that" is not a principled stand, it's just not compatible with my brain.
Having said all this, I do know ADHDers do manage to put systems in place to deal with mess and to help them get/keep organised (to varied degrees of success) but it's very much "ADHD style tidying/organisation". By which I don't mean "making more mess" lol, but it might seem like an odd system to you, or it might not work forever and they need to try something else. When we're fully allowed to tackle things in a way that actually works for us we can get quite creative - with mixed results unfortunately, but we do try (not a guarantee that your specific ADHDer will try! ADHDers do vary)! For example I have a very rigid method I follow for washing up, which basically involves categorising/stacking all the stuff that needs washing up, rinsing it, and then washing everything up by category in a particular order- I don't know what it is about this system but if I do this, I can actually get the washing up done (rather than just stare at it overwhelmed) whereas if I do this and someone brings me a thing in a category that I'm not washing up right now, all of a sudden I'm getting anxious because this isn't part of the system (did I mention I might be Au-DHD? That might be relevant here lol)
Ultimately you're right when you say "In the end it simply seemed impossible for him to change, or to maintain any effort to change". He shouldn't be trying to change - he can't. Because no amount of effort to make tidying important to our brains will ever result in more tidying - it will always get forgotten about when something else comes into focus. What he might be able to do is find an ADHD friendly way to help out with cleaning/tidying - i.e. a way that helps bring cleaning into focus as a thing that needs doing/makes it seem more interesting, rather than relying on impressing the importance of the task- which is never going to work because even if we truly recognise how important something is, that alone will never get it done, especially not consistently over time.
More clarity please ...
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
Okay. So please if you will, try to give me more insight into this:
"I don't really have any other options available, I certainly can't go round just, passively noticing mess and dealing with it as I go about my day. "
Given that this is essentially what is needed in order to maintain a clean and orderly home, I would like to know exactly why you "certainly can't" do it.
When you explained about the dishes I could start to understand your sense of overwhelm and it makes sense that you might break it down into parts in order to accomplish it, particularly if there is like a huge post-dinner mess.
But let's say that you, like my partner, make a million little messes all the time. Let's say you are eating a snack while watching TV and you get a bunch of crumbs all over the living room table. When you get up to leave the room, what is it that stops you from cleaning up the crumbs? And after being asked 10,000 times, you still never will do it?
These are the little messes that, if we clean them up as we go, life is more pleasant and prettier than if we do not. The aesthetic sensibility comes into play for me as much as the the general health and welfare of a household and a family. It's just UGLY having messes all the time.
So anyway, please imagine the crumb scenario and tell me, if you can, what might be happening in my partner's brain when he just will not ever clean those crumbs up.
Also! I have seen him at other people's houses where he knows he has to clean up and he generally does a decent job at it, though that is for short stays.
this is a hard one to answer
Submitted by alphabetdave on
or at least, I tried to give an answer to this yesterday but it didn't work out to be very coherent. I'm tackling this post in 3 parts as it's easier for me that way:
When I say "I don't have the option to passively notice mess and dealing with it as I go about my day", what I mean by this is, I don't really have the option to consistently, passively notice anything. This is why ADHD is called what it is - the "attention deficit" part is a bit misleading because we don't actually lack attention, we just lack control of it. It might have been better called "Attention Control Deficit Disorder" rather than Attention Deficit Disorder (I know the term ADD has been phased out but the hyperactivity side doesn't have as much to do with what I'm talking about here).
I've boldened the word "consistently" because this is the key thing here. If you point out a mess that needs cleaning up, we can go and do it. We can spend a whole day hunting out messes and cleaning them up we find it rewarding. But ask us to consistently look out for mess and clean it up where we see it, as we go about other things in our day, is just a recipe for failure - not even because the request is unreasonable, it just asks a level of consistent effort to control our attention, that just isn't acheivable given that this is what our disorder is famed for lacking (I think a lot of "deliberately bad" ADHD behaviour, e.g. "I don't even see why I should have to clean up" is really down to this too - if the ADHDer is really honest with themselves and the person asking, it can sometimes feel preferable to be rude but in control, given that our other two options are either admit weakness, or agree to something we can't consistently live up to - most likely far from the first time)
"But let's say that you, like my partner, make a million little messes all the time. Let's say you are eating a snack while watching TV and you get a bunch of crumbs all over the living room table. When you get up to leave the room, what is it that stops you from cleaning up the crumbs? And after being asked 10,000 times, you still never will do it?"
Bizarrely, my immediate response to this question is "what kind of snack are we talking about" lol. I think I'm just curious what he's eating that drops this many crumbs - maybe because this isn't a scenario I really recognise from my own experience. I generally find that crumbs dropped from snacks are pretty minimal, and if I'm having a sandwich or something I'll tend to use a plate
Anyway I don't want to divert too much down the specific types of snacks - there's an awful lot that could explain not cleaning the crumbs - inattention (didn't notice them), procrastination (I'll do it later), it's even possible that it might have started as one of these and turned into a bad association with "being asked 10,000 times" to do the same thing, I wouldn't want to go as far as to call this "not doing it out of spite" - it might be, but it also might be due to the fact that consistently not meeting an expectation is a form of control over his own actions and the consequences of them, which he isn't able to achieve in the other direction (consistently cleaning up) - I know I've done this at times, leaned into laziness because effort was just resulting in failing, getting shouted at and feeling bad
I think the main thing is though, that asking a 10,001st time will never achieve anything. This isn't to say that ADHDers can't participate in cleaning as I said in the last comment though, it's more that they need to be able to do so in a way that works for them (note: this doesn't mean it's on you to work out what this is)
"Also! I have seen him at other people's houses where he knows he has to clean up and he generally does a decent job at it, though that is for short stays. "
This actually makes a whole lot of sense! Although I appreciate it probably doesn't seem like it. The difference is essentially novelty. He's at someone else's house, it's a more novel environment, he's not on autopilot - I can pretty much guarantee if it was a longer stay, if you got into routines and habits and got to the point where autopilot kicked in, he would be pretty much exactly the same. It has nothing at all to do with him having more respect for these other people, it's just that the environment itself is somehow more engaging for his brain, whereas home is familiar to the point that the environment is easily (not intentionally!) ignored.
Hope these answers make some sense, worth caveating that I can't speak for every ADHDer but I can at least speak from the experience of having ADHD, so hope that helps
Mess does matter if you don’t choose it
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I'd say a mess is fine if I choose it. When I was young and lived alone I had bachelor habits. Not disgusting as in rotten smell from under the kitchen sink, but messy, unfinished projects around the house. It was not a problem at all.
When I share a living space, that's a different thing. Tidying in order to leave a room clean for the next person to enjoy is an act of respect and love.
If a partner and I are both lazy but efficient when we want to, we could probably choose mess some days and order some days and be fine with it. An ADHD partner with lacking ability to see, prioritize and clean mess doesn't make messes optional for their partner though. So the non partner feels the mess is infringed on them. They feel the rotten smell they discover when opening the cabinet is disrespectful to their integrity.
You may think it small-minded. Indeed a mind set on managing all the slips of a chronically distracted partner to make the family function gets a bit limited. They can't choose to instead go out in the world and achieve things and then relax in a functional home. Choice is the issue here.
In fact one of the things I hate about my long marriage is how I couldn't keep my relaxed bohemian attitude to small things. I had to be petty since I had no good options.
dopamine
Submitted by honestly on
ok so what i don't understand here is, i don't get dopamine from cleaning. i don't expect to get dopamine from cleaning. i just know it is a necessary and adult thing to do - like providing a balanced and varied diet for my kids, maintaining personal hygiene and driving the family car. Apart perhaps from feeling nice after bathing, I don't get any particular dopamine hit from any of this. Why do people with ADHD need everything to make them happy; why is there no acceptance of the adult understanding that some things are not fun but have to be done by someone and it probably should be you?
rather, dopamine shortage
Submitted by alphabetdave on
this isn't quite how I understand dopamine to work in the ADHD brain. It's not that we're addicted to dopamine and can only do things that give us a dopamine hit - it's more that we're chronically short of dopamine. Dopamine is a part of neurotypical brain functions too, it's just that your dopamine receptors actually function properly. Your ability to do things on the basis that they are necessary and adult, is due to either the fact that there's plenty of dopamine swimming around in your brain and your brain is able to use it - or maybe there isn't, but your brain is still able to focus on a task that isn't particularly desirable and get it done anyway.
The best way I've found to describe what it's like to try and get something uninteresting and unengaging done when in a low dopamine state (i.e. the majority of the time with ADHD - but not all of the time) is that it's like that task is made of teflon. I can try and get it done, but then - 5 minutes later I find myself in the middle of doing something else. Cursing myself, I try and do the task again - 5 minutes later again, I'm onto some other distraction. I repeat the process again. I hide the distraction thinking, surely this will help and then repeat the process again, to find myself staring out of the window instead. It's not intentional - this can go on for hours and every attempt to put ourselves back onto the task we were trying to get done is another frustration and a stress, and this is very much a theme our whole lives.
At times in my life I have actually been willfully lazy, but this isn't because ADHD is just an excuse for laziness, it's more that it's about the only form of consistency I can really manage - and at times it can feel like the results when I actually put effort in really aren't that much better, especially for the amount of stress and frustration it causes going through the above process over and over again
thank you
Submitted by honestly on
Thank you for your explanation and very effective analogy. It does sound really difficult, and you seem like a thoughtful and caring person. To be clear, I did not mean to imply that people with ADHD were addicted to dopamine - I am aware of the baseline lack. My husband's particular teflon situation has been to turn away entirely from tasks he doesn't want to do - he is above the day to day pettiness of cooking, sorting out thr kids, or driving places in the car. I realise now it's probably RSD defensiveness that has made him act like this, but after 20 plus years I am burned out, exhausted and lonely. My (probably) adequate supply of dopamine is a privilege, but it's not enough for two. I'm sorry things are so hard for you, but I'm also sorry things are so hard for me.
this. I'm wondering too
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
Hopefully this doesn't make anyone with ADHD feel like they have to answer to any one of us...but totally this. I don't like any of these things either. Yet I do them because they have to be done in order to be a functioning member and really, just to make sure that I even like/care about myself in 5 days, 5 weeks, 5months or even 5 mins time. That's how I look at it. I can acknowledge that an ADHDer might not look at it that way... but then how DO you look at it? It sucks for everyone that has to do it. But we do it, bc you need to take a shower, you need to drive the car, etc.
yes indeed
Submitted by honestly on
I honestly don't mean anyone with ADHD has to answer to me, just that I really do not understand what the process is here, and I would like to.
I would love to hear the answer also....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've watch my wife hoard and be messy for 16 years...Only at Christmas or when one of our family is coming in from out of town to visit, does she go on what I call a shame cleaning binge...With her hate for anything mundane (in her mind) or rhetorical, that lacks a dopamine producing feature like cleaning, organizing and things that doesn't have a thrilling element to it, she will always put off, dodge completely or half do it....It's a reality of mind we can't understand even if someone tried to explain it to us...
c
c
Dopamine ...
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
So yes I do realize this plays into it. My partner also waits until the last second to do everything and I know there is some need for that rush and pressure in order to get it done.
But why is it that his rational mind cannot, after all these years, overcome whatever other issues are play here? That's when it starts to feel like he just doesn't give a shit about me, it just isn't worth it to him to take the extra time to clean up his messes, even if he knows it is really unpleasant for me to live with.
When he cuts his beard, he leaves all the hair all over the sink. When he brushes his teeth, he leaves globs of toothpaste all over the sink. Etc. Yucky mess. That he could clean. That he SHOULD clean. But he just leaves it.
The last minute rush
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
The last minute rush was a huge source of stress for me. I'm sure it's fine for a single person with ADHD, but I found it unfair that I was expected to understand how dopamine worked and "work with" that rush while on the flipside he would never understand my desire to be prepared vs. stressed at the last minute and find a way to help with the cleaning in advance. It only worked one way.
When we were having company, I couldn't wait for the last hour for him to be motivated to start the several hours of cleaning and prep required to be prepared. So of course I had to do it in the days and hours leading up to guests arriving alone. I remember one time, it was down to the wire before a dinner party. I was scrambling to get all the obvious remaining messes tidied while preparing dinner. He came into the kitchen and started taking EVERYTHING out of the fridge and putting it on counter. "What are you doing?" I asked. "I'm cleaning out the fridge for company," he replied. "We can't have a messy fridge." I asked him to please not do this right now... company would be coming in a half hour and so much else that was critical needed doing. I asked him to please vacuum the living room where we'd be sitting instead. He did not do that. He continued emptying the entire fridge all over where I was preparing our meal and cleaned every shelf of the fridge that didn't need cleaning, dripping water all over the floor, spreading food across every counter in the midst of my preparing dinner. No amount of reasoning or distress on my end could stop it. I realized I wasn't living with another adult partner. Not only would never be able to see that guests require advance prep, he went about making my life even harder when I was already doing everything. Even if he couldn't SEE that (which... how?), why wouldn't he believe me when I said I needed help in other ways? It's baffling.
Sounds like a few things going on here
Submitted by alphabetdave on
I don't think it's that we can't understand our partners' need to be prepared rather than stressed at the last minute, it's just that no amount of understanding will result in a change to one of the core things we wrestle with with ADHD, our own inconsistency.
The fridge story is interesting as it sounds like there's a few things going on there. It sounds to me like essentially your husband recognised that there was in fact a need to tidy up before company arrived, and the thing he settled on as "my thing I can do to help out" was to clean the fridge.
I don't know a lot about the tone you responded to that idea with, but it sounds like maybe he took it as a rejection of the thing he decided to do to help out, and therefore as a rejection of his own efforts to help out. Much as you offered another suggestion, doing what you suggested night have felt like giving up his autonomy, and if "not being an adult" was a theme in the narrative of your marriage he might have taken this as further proof that he wasn't an adult, that he couldn't do anything useful unless directed to do so from you, and wanted to prove otherwise.
These aren't necessarily the most rational courses of action, they're more driven by RSD and the trauma (if that isn't too strong a word) of living with an inability to be consistent, rather than any kind of logic that can be reasoned with.
Personally I dislike calling this sort of stuff "not adult behaviour" because there's more to it than that - the issue isn't that we're not adults, rather we're not neurotypical adults. In particular I think if a partner in a relationship is given a narrative of "why can't you do this stuff by yourself? Why can't you be an adult?" I think it's understandable that they might double down when asked to stop doing something they decided to do by themself (even if it really isn't the best idea, and in this case it absolutely wasn't)
This isn't to excuse his actions btw, I can see how they would have been frustrating. I think it's hard to understand the sheer inner turmoil of an ADHD brain without having one. It's not that it makes what goes on on the outside any better, it's just kind of sad that in a lot of cases we're genuinely just trying to do the best we can - I don't know whether your husband was in those anecdote or not, but I can definitely relate to similar times in my own marriage where I was
I hear you Dave
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
100% he thought this was helping. I agree.
Here's the thing... Obviously I had gotten to that point alone, understanding I would receive no help from him... so after I've cleaned the whole house, planned the event, bought the food and am preparing that food... while he chilled on his laptop all week... to actively make my life worse just before company arrives when I've already bent over backwards to work around the ADHD as it is? It's just too much.
And I did tell him that any other day I would fully appreciate him cleaning out the fridge, just not that moment when it was crunch time. Yet he continued. I get that the ADHD brain has a hard time prioritizing, which is why I told him what WOULD be helpful (vacuuming). But in the long run I had to realize this was never on me anyway... it was on him to manage the symptoms of ADHD to the best of his ability so he could be a better partner, which he chose not to (he was untreated).
It's genuinely heartening to see your journey, Dave. Appreciate you.
Actively making life worse
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
Yes. That really does happen. And while it can't be true, there are times when it just seems like he is actually trying to make things worse for me. Particularly before any events. I have some events that I do that take a lot of work, and not only will he never help ahead of time, but it's like he throws firecrackers at my feet at the last minute. I can count on it. It does feel a lot like he is purposefully just refusing to allow me to lead, to do what I ask, just because I am asking. He doesn't want me to tell him what to do, but he doesn't know what to do. When he finally agrees that I should write a list for him, he absolutely will never look at it. He is resentful of taking any direction for me, particularly around helping out in the house. It's just one GIANT landmine, talking to him about it or working on it. I am done. DONE DONE DONE.
I have so much baggage related this stuff....
Submitted by c ur self on
Melody my emotions were effected just reading this story! WOW...I have lived under these same pressures for 16 years...But thankfully I've come to peace with it all....If she doesn't start moving her stuff back to her old house in the next week or so...I'm going to see my attorney...I have been very long suffering, and loving...But I've finally started asking her...Why are you here?....She don't have an answer, but, I do...It's like a hotel here for her, I make her life easy....But, no more...Once I got peace w/ this, I've felt lighter than I have in years...
c
I'm so sorry, c
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I'm heartened you've found peace with a hard decision but sorry for the challenges you've faced and that still lie ahead. ❤️
Thank you...
Submitted by c ur self on
Hopefully it will go OK, it's something I never wanted to be part of my life...But, I could probably say that for other hard places, and tough times...I guess the transition for us will be about as easy as it can be for any couple....She didn't take my name, her house is 2.5 miles from this one, it still has the utilities on...We make about the same money and never shared accounts...We do taxes separately also....Her life style for 16 years has been one that flowed from an Independent mind, (single minded thinker)....She will just keep right on that road...Of course she will have to do all the things I've mostly done for 16 years now...(shopping, cooking, cleaning etc) I think she will work on her hoarding issue if for no other reason, than her grandchildren...She know's her daughter in laws, want bring them into a hoarded up home...And about 11 years ago, I realized if I didn't turn a little inward in my thinking and life style, I would not have one...:) Well I can clean this place up, rip out some carpet's and put in some nice floors...I've just had no heart to do it knowing she wouldn't clean or stop cluttering up the place...I am thrilled about that part! :)...
Just for accountability and openness, I met w/ our pastor and one of our Elders (who is a licensed counselor himself)...It went well, I told them how she lived, and that she also lived in a guest room for 4 years now...The pastor said I had grounds to divorce her, but thanked me for being transparent...That is the only way I want it, I have nothing to hide, plus, I wanted it as mean's of accountability for us both, life has taught me, I can't trust her...(Selfish)...They asked me if she knew I was there, I told them no...They said they will call her and see if she will meet w/ them....I think she's been expecting it....She has never seen this person in our 16 years....She told me she was meeting with them Thursday....I want venture to guess, what she tells them...She could do everyone a big favor by just telling the truth...I guess we will see....They asked me what I was going to do if she didn't move out....I told them...'I'm going to divorce her'...
Not everyone is cut out for a life of unity and marital sharing...It can't work for self absorbed minds....
c
So sorry C
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I'm moved by the efforts you've made in your marriage and hope you will be happier soon.
What do your Elders say about ADHD? I imagine even though diagnoses we talk of today are recent discoveries, the religious communities must have thought about these things happening in marriages long before we knew the biochemical reason for it?
All the best to you, C.
Swedish Coast....ADHD....
Submitted by c ur self on
They really didn't address it...They know it, but it's the behaviors (life pursuits) related to biblical marriage responsibilities they wanted to hear about...I told them the main reason I've endured for 16 years was my opinion's concerning mental illness....Plus I'm messed up....I'm more of a mother than a husband...I can't help but worry about her well being w/ out me....
Thank you swedish coast....
c
I’d pray for you
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Dear C, you know I'm not religious, but I'd pray for you if I could.
Swedish Coast....
Submitted by c ur self on
I take your compassion as something greater than religion <3....It was the religious of that day that crucified my savior...God is Love, the Christ is the way, the truth, the life....
Thank you!!
c
Yes....
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
So much of this. When he finally decides its time to act, he has no awareness of everything I've already been doing. He gets in my way, messes things up, rushing around like a crazy person, stressing everyone out. And of course having a rage attack if I get irritated or refuse to help him do whatever he decided should be done at the last possible second.
Oh yes, the embarrassment
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Melody, this is so spot on. The anxiety, the rush, the fight just before guests arrive. Doesn't it make one embarrassed at the state of the household... I carry this shame still, like I can't entertain at home though there is no last-minute guest stress anymore.
I see a lot of dysfunction in that scene you told. I think my husband was proud of himself when he one afternoon started some far-fetched project instead of feeding hungry children as he'd promised. When I came from work and said that thing you're fixing up won't be in use for another ten months, but kids needed dinner an hour ago, he wrinkled his brow and honestly didn't understand. He never could prioritize. Also late in our struggles I explained to him that cleaning a bathroom couldn't take three hours, like he did it one day. I said every other week we need to do a quick freshening up. I hadn't thought of it before I verbalized it, but then told him exactly how to do a fast cleaning, hitting the worst spots, making the house nice with minimum effort and minimum time. I realized then he had no clue on how to simplify any task. He could start cleaning but end up doing a meticulous scrub of the inside of some tiny drawer we seldom used.
Another time it was Saturday and I had been baking and cooking and the kitchen was clean and smelled lovely. It was soon dinner time. He then started boiling dish rags on the stove, spreading odor, and didn't understand why I wasn't pleased.
It is clear in hindsight that our life together was hopeless. Not because there was bad intent or even laziness really. Just no rewards for anyone.
The dishrags
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Eeks! The dishrags!!
My husband didn't feed our child either. HE would eat, but not feed her. ??? It got so that I couldn't go out for anything longer than a dental appointment and even then I'd generally return to chaos of some sort. It was imprisoning. Wish I'd left earlier of course but the threat of sharing custody with someone who couldn't meet our child's basic needs loomed large.
This is my struggle. I feel
Submitted by wes on
This is my struggle. I feel like he is purposefully making my life harder and it makes me so resentful.
I understand Burned out lady....
Submitted by c ur self on
Any time we justify poor habits, intrusive habits, w/ little to no regard to the spouse or family who share those spaces, it will always look like they don't give a shit...Why? Because the results of the action's are the same...Rushing means; "left mess's"...Mind's drawn primarily to dopamine producing activities means; uselessness or laziness's in responsible mundane area's of life...The reason you and I and so many who post here feel these burden's are because they are real...It don't matter why...
When we are able to disassociate ourselves from our spouse's in all aspects of life other than them as an individual...At that point we easily see that person's life abilities and choice's will always be destructive in a marriage union...Even the one's who might be aware and not justify these attributes, will still make a mother out of a spouse....And the one's who justify and live in denial....Well, let's just say they need to live Single....At least being single they can't destroy no one's life but their own, and being single will also force accountability (no one use) on them to a degree, that they so desperately need.....
c
me too
Submitted by honestly on
I would also like to know - especially regarding the
asked 10,000 times, and you love this person, thing. I was baffled by this at first, as i was politely asking for reasonable things, then I became frustrated, then angry (mostly internalised; hello Hypertension!) , and have now given up. I feel that he literally doesn't hear me when I speak. He has diminished me to almost nothing. I'm just this awful person that he won't, for some reason, let go.
Have you let him go?
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
Or are you still in?
checked out
Submitted by honestly on
but am still in situ. Not for much longer though. Plans in place.
I have to laugh ...
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
Just an update -- my partner, who moved out a week ago, but only to the house next door - continues to come over because we do work together. He can work here but go to his house to eat and watch TV. But he has not taken the TV even though I keep telling him to take it. And so, I still find him here on the couch watching TV.
The flash point of our troubles for months has been him making a mess in the living room while watching TV and eating. Leaving all his shit all over the table, crumbs, food sludge, whatever. And just leaving it for me to clean up.
So I find him there yesterday and I see the table looks clean .... except that in a certain light I can see a huge number of smudges . Smudges. What are these smudges?
I ask him, what are all those smudges on the table? He acts like he has no idea and it is perfectly clear that he is lying.
I say, it looks like something you did.
He says, without missing a beat, maybe it's something I did. Because of course it was.
Then he says, oh you know what? I was eating cheese and I gave a little to the cats on the table.
That's his story? The cats made the smudges? I don't even bother asking for more BS.
But clearly what happened is that he got cheese bits all over the table because he doesn't use a plate. Then instead of walking 10 feet, getting a sponge and coming back and wiping off the table, he decided to just sort of RUB THE CHEESE INTO THE TABLE.
Because that is what .... easier? Actually I think its more work.
All the time he is rubbing cheese into the beautiful wood table, I wonder what his brain is doing. Is it thinking "She won't notice!" or is it thinking about me at all? It must be because otherwise he wouldn't bother rubbing it in at all.
This is what children do.