Sorry all, this will sound self-pitying. I'll write it anyway because I need to take down these realizations when they come.
Have been struggling for a few days. Am very unhappy. Have dwelled in memory of the deepest despair of the past year.
The therapist tells me I suffer from trauma and have been manipulated. Vacation makes it unavoidable. No distractions.
The issue is so simple really. I did everything I possibly could to save our marriage. I did everything I could to choose honesty, and vulnerability. I worked hard to be close to this passive turned away dishonest weak depressed anxious man with severe ADD. We had excellent therapy. He didn't do what the therapist recommended. He forgot to honor the agreements we made together with the therapist. He didn't communicate.
He had put me under terrible strain for years by stating he was incapable of taking adult responsibility for our family. He let me toil. We lost our social network because he had social anxiety. Then during divorce, he claimed he could suddenly take all this responsibility. And he has had the children lived with him 50% of the time since, even though I take care of all clothing, haircuts, hygiene issues, social obligations, proactive work, activities for them. And I worry that life at their father's is passive and unhealthy.
During divorce he slandered me. He told me I was unreliable. He said I took no responsibility in life, making myself a victim and blaming others for everything. He said I had a narrow distorted perspective. He said he wished we'd been divorced much earlier. He said I would have to rethink how I related to people in general because I was useless at it. He said he didn't and wouldn't care about my opinion anymore. He didn't care what would become of our relationship after divorce, it was over. He said I had better cooperate with him for the sake of the children, it was my duty. He scorned me for my pain and for my referring to former agreements we'd made. He scorned me for acting like I thought living with me was such a precious gift. A lot of this was said with a rage face.
He's a professional in the field. I had been open and shared my insecurities with him. He phrased it like I was someone to be evaluated by him. It would have been easier to be called a stupid c...t.
After divorce he claimed he had no regrets and he had meant every word he said.
These are facts. They are simple.
And reading about trauma I score quite high on those questionnaires.
It's hard to realize my confidence is actually gone. I thought it might be due to ageing, and professional disappointments, but really of course it's not about that. It's that we were socially isolated for so many years, that I struggled so hard, and was then trying to keep calm and kind during the last months while he showed me I was worth nothing.
Due to recent reminders of other history (systematic invalidation of my thoughts and feelings since childhood and some earlier losses) I right now feel every destructive force has centered on this beautiful week in July. And I have to admit I have no confidence left.
Realize I don't particularly care if someone wants to brush this off as victimization or self-pity. It's simple. It's there. I have no illusions that it will go away until I've worked it through.
the pain is real
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
Ah Swedish, I tear up reading this. I feel for you and I feel deeply for you and your post here because I know it well and you have literally just typed one of my biggest fears of what will happen on the 'other side' and why I can't face the possibility of this pain. I can read and feel and hear your pain and I'm so sorry. I don't want to say anything cliche bc we both know that this is so real and so hard and so harsh.
I'm not being funny but do you have friends where you are that you can share this with them as well without them giving you a blank stare? I am finding that my friendships have been the saving grace for me lately.
RSD gone wild
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Sometimes I manage to think his behavior during divorce was just RSD on maximum volume which sort of takes away its impact. Not today though.
Thank you Off the roller. I'm glad you are helped by your friends. It's vital.
So so sad
Submitted by Catterfly on
This is far from victimization or self-pity. This is your closest partner in life, someone who vowed to protect you, invalidating and dehumanizing you in the worst way he possibly can. It's using what you've shared with him against you. It's horrible, horrible abuse.
But, I think about how far you've come in life with this horrible emotional handicap, and can only imagine what you'll be able to do as you heal. You are a superhero who is only now getting away from your kryptonite.
My heart goes out to you.
Choices
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Thank you Catterfly. That's so much appreciated.
I realized yesterday that I've spent a decade or more choosing most things out of fear.
I don’t know if this helps
Submitted by honestly on
but I completely recognise the choosing things out of fear. I do this too - out of fear and also fatigue. X
I’m sorry
Submitted by honestly on
I just want to let you know that I am standing quietly by you in solidarity. In the weariness and isolation and the blame and the loss of confidence. You may feel alone, but you are not. X
Thank you Honestly
Submitted by Swedish coast on
That is so kind of you. I'm so grateful for your support.
HI SC...
Submitted by c ur self on
Reading you, is like a mirror in some ways...(also I have empathy for you, and respect, for wanting to face all of your feelings head on)...Summing up a lot of what you said in this post and the previous one three days ago...Attempting to simplify what you have stated in these two posts, in my own direct way....(your marriage relationship experience's, along w/ mine and many here) What jumps out overall, is the picture of incompatibility...You talk about your short comings in patience...What I experienced and possibly see in your situation is huge difference's....It's more about how each of us prioritize (plus the capability to perform at a certain level) life responsibilities vs other less important things (activities, interests, hobbies,) time killers and self entertainment etc....Looking back, it's not as much about patients, as it is, being on totally different life roads...When I've made written statements in the past about living like my wife doesn't exist in area's she refuse to show up in. That is all I meant...We are so incompatible with how we are going to live out life (convictions toward life responsibilities) that it's a constant strain on the relationship attempting to get through a day together, with completely different views of what life should look like...I am not saying we should not be patient with our spouses, and I'm not assigning blame or saying we (Nuro-t's, if I am one, lol) are right all the time...What I am saying is it's very easy to fall in love w/ someone we are very different from...The bible talks about being equally yoked spiritually...Well in my experience, that also should be a very high consideration in all area's of life...
Also, when it comes to your x's (hurtful) opinion about you, I wouldn't allow it to effect me to much....Probably should expect it...I'm getting the same cold, snobbish attitude from my wife, now that she has been asked to leave....Here's the reality picture...(It is for me anyway) You have this spouse for years that refuses to prioritize their vow's and the mutual relationship work...(daily responsibilities)....You try for years on top of years, to have open, transparent interaction's and conversation's related to the huge difference's and the different priorities as it relates to marriage responsibilities....It's not one spouses JOB to watch the other spouse live carefree, and attempt to figure them out on the fly!!....You've got to open that mouth and talk openly, calmly, and with full ownership (transparency) about what you are showing me daily!....This dynamic is what causes spouse's get fed up and walk away....So all of a sudden when I decide the ONLY way to stop being used, and hopefully produce a little accountability for her is, let life demands do it...So I'm sliding out of the enabling slot....So all of a sudden the uncaring attitude that was lived out in her carefree life style of irresponsibility, is an ouch!...So here comes the free shots at the one who carried the load for years, while she played...Oh I expect it....I don't like it, but, I expect it....It's just what happen's when you take the toy's away....Victim minds are going to tell you that you are bad!...And the only reason we endured all the years we did, was love and devotion...But, blind people can't see that....
Attempting to be kind to a mind that refuses ownership of their responsibilities, justifies it, and refuse's to openly communicate about their daily choices and realities, will always mean unresolved issues, and walking away w/nothing accomplished....
The winner is always the one who doesn't care....A spouse who refuses to communicate and take ownership of their life choices, does not CARE, and they show us by this refusal...And when they verbally attack us after years of chance's to just honor their spousal responsibilities and communicate about life...Well it's just because that can't use us any longer....All we can (I) hope for is at some point they SEE how selfish and self absorbed living effects others...
c
Dear C
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Thank you for your thoughts. Yes of course. It's my withdrawal of support that brings out the nastiness in him. I think your wife who seems to have acted egoistically for the most part will show this for the same reason. She has naturally been very lucky to have received all this from you, and her life will be harder now.
The blame and depreciation is a bitter pill to swallow, though. Were we just a support system with no human value at all? My husband hasn't been frivolous or taken advantage with joy, he's been depressed and deep in shame for not being able to do his share of chores and responsibilities. The end result of you and me leaving though, seems to be one and the same. Even though we've received so little and given so much.
Dear C, incompatibility is the answer, I totally agree. That's bitter too. Who could have changed it, whichever therapy was taken? It's wired into us. The ADHD spouse will forever resent our non expectations and deny our needs since those are out of their reach.
I hope your divorce is proceeding calmly. Knowing your patience and acceptance, I have a feeling you will do well after this.
No us....Swedish Coast....
Submitted by c ur self on
What cause's a marriage's to fail so often is there is no US...No human value, and being just a support system, plus the egoistical attitude's toward a spouse are all symptoms of seeking to have a life within a life...I had a wife for many years, (lost to Breast C) and we were an US...There was respect, communication, and there was daily desire to be the One, coming from both of us...There was ownership....We had different likes, and hobbies...But we both loved being the one, the US....There was no hiding, no refusal and demand to go and come at any time like we weren't accountable to each other...There was no reason to not be transparent, even if we had difference's or a need to apologize, if there was work to do in the home, with our girls, we both owned it....We had shared efforts....
When cc debt got out of hand and I asked her for her cc, and took the scissors to both our cards, and told her we would live off of cash, she reluctantly handed it over, because she knew I loved her and she trusted me to be the head of our home....When life got better after a while (and we matured) she was very happy she did...
What could have fixed our situation's presently? Trust, respect, communication, acceptance, ownership....These things should be our head and heart go to's, we all witness happily married couples most everyday...Couples who place this life's top priority on being one, being an US...Never attempting to live a life, within a life...OCD, ADD, among other mentally distracting struggles, is never a reason to not be transparent, to communicate openly and honestly...To be totally accepting of our responsibilities as it relates to our new roles ( to be an us) at the time we Vowed it to each other....
True
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Incompatibility it is. Responsibility has taken over life entirely. Tending to the family's basic needs has become my entire existence, while he has to a large part just been a void.
Imagine I wanted a life of adventure. I wanted to live abroad periodically, meet people, learn new things, do art, hike, sail. I took risks, confident that I'd manage. I could get basics done easily and have energy left for the amazing things in life. And then this closed down life with him, of zero resources and zero consistency - I couldn't risk anything as it turned out. All my energy went into managing the effects of his disability.
Whether he can be held accountable or not, it isn't nothing to claim a person's entire mental and physical resources for decades and then tell them you never appreciated them.
so familiar
Submitted by honestly on
For years before I knew he had ADHD, I had this feeling like I was married to someone with a disability. There was so much that we couldn't do, so much that I couldn't expect from him, so many limits on my life, so much that I had to carry because he did not. I gave up on a lot because I was, I realise, utterly drained by him.
Reflecting on this now I feel quite angry at my former self for thinking this way, because this is not what my experiences of disability has really shown me. I know that for people with disabilities, major constraints are created by society and other people's attitudes. Aside from whatever physical pain or difficulties they experience, they also suffer and they struggle as a result of these constraints. For people with ADHD, it seems to me that the constraints are placed by the person with ADHD onto their partner; energy and capacity is drained from the nonADHD partner to feed their needs, to enable them to function in the world. We become an 'outbrain' for them, a proxy and a leaning post and a punching bag, so that they can function normally.
Two of my best friends have physically and learning disabled children; one friend and I both have a physically disabled parent; all of them have been determined to live a rich and full life in which almost nothing could not be at least attempted, if not always achieved. This has included advocacy and political agitation for a better future for people with disabilities.
I am not trying to suggest we are wrong in our characterization of ADHD as a disability, but rather that I now see it as often very different in the ways in which it is problematic. Determination, and the will to live well, have characterized all of the disabled people that I have known. My experience of ADHD has been almost the opposite of that.
This is a bit of a ramble and a sensitive topic but I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm sorry, I'm with you; it's awful. I think of my friends and their families battling their ways through school and work into theatres and onto ferries and aeroplanes and to demos and along hiking trails despite all their difficulties, and am so glad they have their full lives and their adventures together. But I know mine can only begin when I can leave my ADHD 'partner' behind.
Hi honestly...We've walked similar paths...
Submitted by c ur self on
When it comes to labeling people, we have to be careful...After 16 years w/ my wife, I understand what ADD is, and what ADD is not...It's better for me to stick with the "reality of the attitude of heart, and the behavior's flowing from that heart"...ADD/ADHD or a busy distracted mind is a real thing...But, it has never and will never produce thought out "choices" that are selfish and self centered in nature...Self centeredness has nothing to do with distraction...If a person can make life decisions (homes, jobs, children, etc etc) and walk around freely growing older each day, then they can learn good habits, and they can also own their behaviors and responsibilities...My wife has held a job for 35 years or more...So to say ADD is a reason for her to live selfishly and indifferent toward her marriage responsibilities is wrong, and an excuse...And anyone promoting this as truth, usually falls into one of three or four category's....An enabling spouse living in an illusion, or full of their own insecurities...A professional who needs us to believe it so they can live well at our expense...Or they have ADD, and need us to believe it, so we will continue to endure the abuse...Also a person can fall into the good friend category, most good friends of ADD minded people, love their happy go lucky engaging spirit...So they might defend them...But, most who do this, do it out of ignorance, and care for the person...They can never know or experience being a interdependent life partner, or the dependent child of that mind....So they really haven't a clue...
Yes, all negative, intrusive, and abusive words and behavior's have the exact same effects on a spouse and children, regardless of how the world seeks to label it.....So it's best to just call a spade a spade...And not get caught up in the label game...It has kept so many people in a abusive situation for years...People forfeiting their peace and being over whelmed with responsibilities because their spouse's priority is MY own self entertainment above all else, so to carry that adult in life is never the right thing...
c
Self Centerness or Self Absorbed? Or both?
Submitted by J on
"While self-centeredness usually stems from selfish motives, self-absorption is often an unintentional behavior that can be addressed with conscious effort and awareness."
C.....Your comment sparked my curiosity so I had to look this up. You mentioned self centered and I immediately went to: or is it self absorbed?
Apparently, there is a subtle difference which has to do with the motivation and intention behind it. This is news to me but started the wheels turning.
But what if a person is both? That's also a possibility?
More to think about.
J
PS After some thought, I think I answered my own question. One is the flip side to the same coin which means both qualities always exist as part of the human condition. But one is the shadow side of the other. And one is more forgivable in respect to the other. The shadow side being less.
Interesting angle, Honestly
Submitted by Swedish coast on
ADD disability seems different than all physical disabilities. Its invisible, so no one believes it. It doesn't in my experience involve motivation primarily. The deficiency is in execution. Setting up goals, making plans, communicating them and coordinating with other people to make them happen. Making decisions. Getting to it. Getting started. Remembering. Prioritizing. Changing strategy when needed. Finishing.
My ex husband also said he had no dreams, no goals, no ideas, no sense of the future. He couldn't imagine anything that wasn't already happening. I don't know if the lack of urge was from depression and because he'd given up, or if he was truly as blank as our calendar. A white empty sheet, that was our future.
The only thing he later said he wanted was a calm life without challenges and without adventure. I've always wondered why he then chose to have three children with me, who have always wanted to live a full and exciting life.