**Subject: Need Advice: ADHD or Verbal Abuse?**
Hi everyone,
I'm reaching out because I'm struggling to understand if what I'm experiencing is verbal abuse or just symptoms of ADHD. I'm in a relationship with someone who has ADHD, but they're not currently medicated. They often have meltdowns or rants that can go on for hours. While these outbursts aren't always directed at me, they usually end up that way because I tend to go silent, likely due to past trauma from dealing with verbally abusive people.
I'm also visually impaired, and during one of these rants, he told me that I bring less to the relationship because of this. This really hurt, and it makes me question the nature of our interactions. I'm not trying to minimize the struggles people with ADHD face, but it feels like he's using his condition as an excuse for behavior that seems manipulative. Is it possible for someone to use their disability in this way?
There have been several instances where the police were called because of his behavior. He used to live with his parents but ended up homeless after repeatedly yelling at them through the basement floor over issues like access to his workshop. He seems to believe that his disability gives him more leeway to act however he wants.
One particular incident that stands out was when he started ranting at me because someone asked him to wear shoes in a store. That night, we broke up. He has since contacted me, calling me unfair and ableist for not respecting that he has ADHD and "can't help it." He's also blamed me for causing him so much stress during a work project we did together that he ended up yelling at his parents. He has called me demeaning names, like "piece of shit," and has even called my mother a "cunt" and other derogatory terms. He also thinks I'm verbally abusing him because I go silent during his outbursts, which he interprets as me shutting him out or being dismissive.
He has also said that we are so good together and that he loves me. But now, I feel like these statements might just be manipulative tactics typical of an abuser, and I'm not sure if I can get past that feeling. At the same time, I worry that it might actually be his disability affecting his behavior, and I don't want to be unfair to him if that's the case. This has left me feeling guilty and confused because I do care about him, but he thinks I don't. He has also mentioned experiencing dysphoria, which seems to add another layer to his distress.
I've read about the definition of verbal abuse, but I'm still unsure if this is what I'm experiencing. Is it possible that I'm mistaking his ADHD symptoms for something more harmful? How do I differentiate between the two? What should I do in this situation?
Any advice or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Get out now
Submitted by Haveaniceday on
You sound like a very level-headed, kind and tolerant person. Emotional dysregulation is a big part of ADHD, but this sounds extreme to me. Living with a partner with ADHD is going to be hard enough, it is no walk in the park (and mine has never once been verbally abusive!), if I were you I would get out now, run as far and fast from this situation as you can. ADHD plus verbal abuse will make your life a nightmare and you sound like someone who could have the opposite experience in a relationship! Even people on this forum who don't experience any abusive treatment, can barely cope with the effects on their life of their ADHD spouse...
This is manipulation and abuse
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I think almost everyone tries to be a good person. For an ADHD mind that will go into uncontrollable RSD mode repeatedly and harm their loved ones, this means reality has to be twisted into knots to still make the ADHD person look good. I believe there is no end to the knots on reality a mind will allow to preserve its self-image.
The RSD complete lack of logic, the dishonesty, the hurtful and downright stupid comments Ive seen countless times too. But your partner is way more aggressive and threatening than what I've experienced.
Abuse or not, I'm not sure what I saw, but it was manipulative. Also the tears after, the needing consolation, the not remembering what was said, and the deflection of any reminder of what was said.
What you describe I would call abuse.
I've concluded my ADD ex husband couldn't help himself. It was all because of weakness. I don't care though what excuses can be made for him. I think he has terrible judgment. He's manipulated me. I wish I'd never met him.
Your partner's behavior is totally unacceptable to me whatever it's cause. Please don't subject yourself to this.
Love Shouldn't Hurt
Submitted by J on
Love Shouldn't Hurt.
Something to think about in trying to determine when he says he loves you, if that's true or not.
J
There's a pattern here
Submitted by J on
that I'm very familiar with. I'll come back to this but I'm at work now. I think I can shed some light on this when I get the chance.
Replying to your comment
Submitted by charmingtempest on
I hope you can tell me about the pattern. Thanks
Verbal abuse ?
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
This is verbal abuse, no matter how you look at it.
Whether the person who says these things has ADHD or not, whether they intentionally said things or not, it still hurts, and if they continue to do it after you ask them to stop it is abuse.
My reply is based on ending my 20 year marriage to a man who became abusive 3 years in. He would often have angry, rageful outbursts, and I remained silent, because speaking up order only fueled his rage. I tried to make it work, but ultimately I was the only one making changes. He never admitted to what he'd done. He took no responsibility whatsoever. He would rather gaslight me and blame me for everything.
This is a text. I just got from him verbatim. Should I block him
Submitted by charmingtempest on
Hey, sure wish my anxious attachment style, didn’t conflict with your avoidant attachment style. Just wish you had more time set aside to figure this stuff out, also moreover we knew how to sooth eachother and make sure that we were not overwhelmed before introducing new things into the mix. Thanks for the times we had I guess, thought you would have fought harder for me. I want to fight for you, but what’s the use. Everyone has already blamed me for everything wrong, as usual. I guess what I’m trying to say is this is painful just texting and being treated like I was intending to treat you bad. I was hurt because you had already lost respect for me and that’s not somthing I can handle. My girl has to 100% respect me. I miss you. I’ll always miss us. I’ll always regret not knowing how soft you are really. I’m sorry I was under the impression you were tough and a bad *** (edited). I’m sorry I didn’t feel like I should have to mask what I am with who I wanted to be with, it’s too exhausting really. You and my parents could have shown me real love by figuring out how to rise to my disability. Just says I’ve learned to soften the way I project myself. It seems like there should be some ground with people who claim that they care about me. it seems like there should be an understanding that if you want me to be quiet and sympathetic don’t ever get passionate about anything around me. I could hardly stand seeing someone super passionate every time I get super passionate about something. It comes off as angry or scary. I’m sorry that I needed more of you not less. I was telling you that I needed you to love the shadow on me to help me heal it. Not completely fall out of love with me. You should’ve taken the leap. You should’ve figured out someway to listen to me when I’m saying no we don’t have time for emotions that’s a luxury. I should have stayed away and not taken you to those motels that put you off, and overcome my adhd to where it’s just my problem being exhausted all the time masking my true self fore people that wouldn’t even know how to love me.
Verbatim last text. Should I block him? Probably. Why do I still
Submitted by charmingtempest on
Hey, sure wish my anxious attachment style, didn’t conflict with your avoidant attachment style. Just wish you had more time set aside to figure this stuff out, also moreover we knew how to sooth eachother and make sure that we were not overwhelmed before introducing new things into the mix. Thanks for the times we had I guess, thought you would have fought harder for me. I want to fight for you, but what’s the use. Everyone has already blamed me for everything wrong, as usual. I guess what I’m trying to say is this is painful just texting and being treated like I was intending to treat you bad. I was hurt because you had already lost respect for me and that’s not somthing I can handle. My girl has to 100% respect me. I miss you. I’ll always miss us. I’ll always regret not knowing how soft you are really. I’m sorry I was under the impression you were tough and a bad *** (edited). I’m sorry I didn’t feel like I should have to mask what I am with who I wanted to be with, it’s too exhausting really. You and my parents could have shown me real love by figuring out how to rise to my disability. Just says I’ve learned to soften the way I project myself. It seems like there should be some ground with people who claim that they care about me. it seems like there should be an understanding that if you want me to be quiet and sympathetic don’t ever get passionate about anything around me. I could hardly stand seeing someone super passionate every time I get super passionate about something. It comes off as angry or scary. I’m sorry that I needed more of you not less. I was telling you that I needed you to love the shadow on me to help me heal it. Not completely fall out of love with me. You should’ve taken the leap. You should’ve figured out someway to listen to me when I’m saying no we don’t have time for emotions that’s a luxury. I should have stayed away and not taken you to those motels that put you off, and overcome my adhd to where it’s just my problem being exhausted all the time masking my true self fore people that wouldn’t even know how to love me.
What does this even mean?
Submitted by J on
I'm having a really difficult time even following this, in fact, it makes no real sense what so ever?
All I hear is a lot of "you" language: you, you, you....then, I, I , ...and us...then I....then back to you.
Sounds like he's trying to say everything is all your fault but mostly, it just sounds like a bunch of random words pulled out of a hat and strung together to form a sentence. Very difficult to understand what he's actually trying to say?
The Pattern
Submitted by J on
Charming tempest.....First I want to say how sorry I'm am that you're going through this and even I, a guy with ADHD agree with what's already been said. What you're experiencing is unacceptable for anyone, ADHD or not.
I just went through a version of this pattern, not at home, but at work so Im writing this while its fresh in my mind.
This deals with a woman I work with who also has ADHD. She told me so going in. I'll do my best to stay on point and stick to the fact here so I can illustrate this pattern.
This woman I'll call Jane, is very likable and gregarious. I do enjoy working with her now, but at first, I walked right into a situation was was ill equipt to handle.
After 40 years in my business, I thought I'd seen it all but this one really threw me. I've worked with over 20 different co-workers but Jane was different in this one way. She is hypersensitive to any kind of correction or critique of her work. She also needs a lot of praise and is very insecure that she's not good at her job.
In the structured hierarchy in my line of work, there are apprentices, journeymen and masters. She is an apprentice with 6 years of work, I'm a journeyman at the least with 40 years under my belt. This is to say, apprentices are learning. They make mistakes and need to be shown things at times. This is true for everyone including me. I went through the same process everyone does.
Here's where the problem begins. My supervisor has to quality control everything we do, and if it's not up to par...it gets sent back to do over. Apprentices inherently have more of these than anyone else. It's part of the learning curve.
When Jane would receive her come backs...many times I'd see the tears welling up in her eyes. On a number of occasions, she would break down and cry. In all the years I've work doing this job, she's the only person who I've witnessed do this.
And me, being like Tom Hanks in A league of their own thinking but never saying..."are you crying? There's no crying in baseball ".
Our supervisor is ex-miltary so he has a very direct, no nonsense to the point delivery in a very stoic manner.
To say, we both come from a male dominated working environment with very little experience with women in this kind of environment.
My co-workers and supervisors have all been men with only a very few exceptions. This only exacerbated this issues. As I said, I was ill equipped to handle this particular issue well.
Up until this point, you might feel some sympathy for Jane as she was struggling to learn a very a difficult job. One that takes years to learn.
But then this happens... and I know this one, because I've done it too. Hopefully, currently, I'm no longer doing it. I'm aware of it even if I start down this path enough to not do it as long as I stay aware.
I want to stop here and say, neither Jane or I have rage fits for hours and then verbally assault others. Everyone with ADHD is different and has there own unique style of way of doing the same pattern. If I'm wrong on this...please feel free to correct me, I certainly don't mind.
And this is what Jane does.....
First come the tears. The inconsolable hurt where she says she's aweful at her job. Lots of self loathing....and lots of self doubt and insecurity. I still feel this at times but the degree of intensity is not nearly like this.
Then comes, the attacking our supervisor saying things like: he's wrong, I did a good job, he doesn't know what he's talking about, etc
But then....not necessary that day or even the next....it starts to get nastier. She starts calling him names, threatening to quit, coping a real negative attitude directed at him. Saying...he hates her, he doesn't like her and feeling very persecuted.
This is what I'm calling...the hit back. In essence, she's been hurt...and the offending party is being attacked for hurting her.
And this happens pretty consistently each time.
But this also happened to me too. It happened when she was screwing up a job, it failed QC...she tried to fix it and couldn't, and then it got handed to me. Now, I'm fixing her screw up, it's putting me behind in my work and this is having a direct negative impact on me. So historically, in my experience, I'd show the person ( usually the apprentice ) what they did wrong and how they could have avoided the problem...including how to do it correctly the next time.
And then I got the hit back but in a very passive aggressive way. Mostly, in snide remarks of a personal nature. And they did sting. It certainly didn't feel good. She would also go talk s"!t about me to other co-workers in the gossip mill. This gossip also included my supervisor. ( bad man )
In reality, he's an awesome supervisor, probably the best one I've ever had. He's really great and yes, sometimes he comes to me with things I missed or forgot and he's very non-judgmental and never angry or demeaning. Like never.
So, she couldn't take correction from my supervisor and she couldn't be shown how "not to do it" from me. Including, how to do it differently next time. And she started lashing out ( hitting back ) in passive aggressive ways directed at the offending party.
To the point....our boss ( a very sharp woman ) had to do a kind of intervention on her and have a long talk with her. Pointing out that our supervisor was only doing his job as directed by her. I don't know what she said about me but whatever was said, Jane seemed to change her disposition.
The only thing my boss said to me about the situation was, I was dealing with a "click" and she's had to break them up before. I hated clicks in high school...with a passion. Again, me being ill equipt to handle this situation.
And I had my own version of this pattern which was more like Jane's including a lot of passive aggressive behavior amd coping a real bad attitude. My hitting back, usually was done passive aggressively without the overt praging and verbal abuse.
But to say....the pattern remains the same in all three cases for very similar reasons.
-Perceived personal attack whether it's actually true...it's still felt like you're being picked on or persecuted.
-Feeling hurt because of it.
- For me, I'd stew for a while..and let it simmering. And then act out in some way. I actually tended to take mine out on inanimate objects more often than not. I'd throw things or break them. I never actually hit anyone...but I lost control of my temper for sure.
- Then the hit back direct at, or even indirectly aimed at through gossip or otherwise. Enlisting others to take your side as Jane did.
In the case of Jane, I was the bad man because I made her cry. Like my supervisor...not only was I doing my job as I had always done and never had this particular problem... my boss was also just doing his job...as he was instructed to do..
Again, as it was already stated...it doesn't really matter why...there's still no excuse for the behavior and how it feels for the receiving party.
If I'm wrong here, and I could be, please don't hesitate to say so. It's just what I see.
J
The patern
Submitted by charmingtempest on
So possibly what you're saying is that he's acting out on some perceived slight that I may or may not have actually done? His hit back is yelling about it for hours and then telling me I'm being avoidant because I don't wanna deal with him anymore? While still professing his undying love and that he wants to work hard and that I'm being disloyal because I don't wanna deal with it anymore and he's the most loyal and nobody understands him? He has this sort of almost twilight-ish notion of love and that you're supposed to just give everything up for someone whereas I think you're supposed to make each other better. Or at least that's what he claims. Maybe I do help him. I hope I have. But he hasn't really helped me. Besides making me more anxious. And even that I told him that I was super anxious and that I was experiencing the things that he said over again, just by talking to him about it and, he basically said OK. I'll leave you alone for a while but I'm still gonna be here. Anyway, I digress I think. I mean, I'm not saying I'm by any means perfect. I'm sure I have weird attachment style stuff, but I broke up with him and wanted to stay broken up and he doesn't seem to get it. He thinks I'm being avoidant and that's just my attachment style and then I'll come back, but we have to deal with it now because that's what he needs. I'm actually saying I don't wanna see you anymore. To him that is. Is that close to what you were saying?
Think of a Petulant Child...
Submitted by J on
on the playground in grade school who feels he's been wronged or hurt and hits back regardless if it's right or wrong. Fueled by anger alone.
Think of a child, having a temper tantrum who's out of control. Think of a child who feels they've been wronged and feels the need to get even.
Now, Think about that same child getting behind the wheel of an automobile and has road rage because someone cuts then off.
This is closer to what I'm saying...using a child like logic and thinking process.
As well as an immature view of love and what love is.
So, if your 10 year old tells you he loves you it's most likely genuine...up to the point a child has the capacity to do.
From the sound of it, you've got a raging grade schooler having an emotional melt down tantrum and feeling the need to hit back because he's not getting his way. Except he's not 10 years old, he's a grown man.
This is closer to what I'm saying. The pattern still remains the same.
Like I said, I've never had raging tantrums lasting for hours, but I have had immature views of love and what love is like a child. Thinking in terms of what I was getting instead of focusing on what I was giving.
Think about it. A child is more likely to have a tantrum when they aren't getting what they want. A child is more likely to feel entitled to something without doing things to earn them or deserve them....to act out when they aren't getting what they want.
To the point, to hit back at the person who is depriving them of what ever it is they want. The one who hurt them. To show them how it feels.
This is a better way to describe this kind of pattern.
J
Getting even
Submitted by Swedish coast on
An ADD person wanting to get even after a perceived injustice but not realizing their impact sounds realistic to me. I have a feeling there is very little self-awareness in and after an RSD episode. There isn't much self awareness the rest of the time either. You may be traumatized but the ADD person doesn't understand it. What's more, they think in the end they are the victim.
Yes block him
Submitted by Swedish coast on
And yes, I think you should block him.
I Think You're Absolutely Right Swedish Coast.
Submitted by J on
I'd block him too.
It’s abuse
Submitted by Catterfly on
What you describe is really extreme. In the end it doesn't matter if it's ADHD; it's abuse. You need to get away immediately. It will escalate from verbal and emotional abuse (which this is) to even worse.
As an aside, I think this sounds like a personality disorder more than ADHD.
I’m ok now
Submitted by charmingtempest on
I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful and non:judgemental input. I am both happy and sad to report that I was forced eventually to block him Happy because I am safe and at peace. I feel the anxiety draining Fromm me day by day. Sad because I said goodbye several times and he just didn't get it. I feel a bit cruel, just taking him off my Facebook and blocking him and all of that and he feels like I lied to him about caring about him and I feel terrible for that but it just wasn't livable anymore. So thank you all for encouraging me. Just for fun and talking fodder I will leave you with, the text he sent me from a different number after I blocked him.
""
Now we know all the lies you were telling me about not ignoring me, all the lies about what you liked, and what you didn’t. All the issues with trust are a reflection of who you are, if anything I was far to trusting of you. I felt safe, why would you make me feel safe, how does one deal with burn out and overwhelm with our acting human, the least you could do is understand I’m trying to create lyrics, trying to test us make sure we’d survive, but you had to be weak where you should be strong, and give up on someone you loved in the most difficult time of their life.
I figured you out, you’ve got poor communication skills and it’s really your loss, sorry you can’t see it. I’ll love you and miss what we had."
I’m relieved
Submitted by Swedish coast on
It's good that you get out of this. I'm sorry you've had to go through the strain.