I,m sorry it's taken so long to make this post but I wanted to make sure I covered all my bases by considering all sides of this issue I'm having before I've said anything. Coming back here has been hugely helpful in this process and as usual, I've come away with more of an education that I had originally thought I would. Im always thankful for all the people here who help make this happen
Anyway, I'm going to make this post as if I've never been here and I have no past history to flavor this at all. It'll help me get right to the point and you'll just have to trust that I've given this some thorough thought. Here we go.
My SO just recently asked me if I wanted to get married. Out relationship is great and we make a great team. I asked her only recently if I was a good partner and she answered by saying I,ve been an excellent partner. I answered her back saying yes, I'd marry you...and am now planning to officially propose to her which I can tell, it's what she would like from me as well.
But there's been a couple of things that have been bothering and have caused me some ambivalent feelings. We've talked at length about our lives and past history with other relationships and I have a pretty good feeling I understand her on an intimate level.
These are things I noticed when I first walked through the door as we had a lengthy online relationship first, then talking on the phone daily for hours before I ever met her in person. ( 3 years total ) Of course, there was no physical contact before this time and we had no history of sharing living space together including physical intimacy.
Its important to note: neither one of were looking for a partner or doing online dating. She had given up on that from her online dating experiences and I simply had resigned myself at the time to live a solitary life. I was committed, with intention, to being celebate so I could easily reach out to people including women without any thoughts of the relationship going anywhere but just friends.
When I first arrived, I notice her controlling tendencies almost immediately. I felt like I walked right into the parent child dynamic from the moment I set foot through the door.
When we did become intimate shorty after...I had absoluty no complaints and it deepened our connection. What I learned from staying single as long as I did was connection with others was what I really valued most above all else. And as one might expect....I wanted to continue to have sex again right away. This is where it gets strange for me. I've never experienced this before. Normally, I've experienced a period of not being able to keep your hands off each other...and me, with physical touch being my # 1 love language, it's only natural for me to want to have sex right after having it for the first time together. When I initiated it the next day, her reaction was not what I expected. She seemed irritated at first, then, almost begrudgingly said something like....well, okay. Like...if you must.
That was weird? ..and it immediately hit all my insecurity buttons as if....I'd done something wrong?
I've come to learn....she has an issue with me being the initiator and her not controlling when we have sex.
I'll have to come back to this as I need to get ready for work.
Ambivalence con't
Submitted by J on
Just a reminder, so far in what I've said happened on day 2 of a brand new relationship while everything is fun and new and there's no past history of anything even close to an argument or disagreement.
So far, I was very excited just to be there with her. We didn't have sex for another week which was fine with me, I was actually overjoyed. But as time wore on, the intervals became longer and longer beginning that very week. I was beginning to get concerned because I'd been there before but never right away in a brand new relationship? In the past when that happened it was like a timer signaling the end with each time interval in-between getting longer and longer which prompted me to finally say something. Is there something wrong? Are you just not into me? ....I asked the things one might normally asked. Her reply was....can't you tell? Does it seem like something wrong? Actually I could tell, and there seemed like nothing wrong at all?? The way she looks at me, the intensity we have when we actually have sex. And all the other ways we share intimate moments of holding each other and falling asleep in each others arms and the like is all I could ask for. More ambivalence?
She did add....her libido has changed, and it's not like it was,plus, all the drugs she takes ( for crohns disease including antidepressants) makes her libido almost none existent.
I don't need to go on with the back story and I can get right to the point.
At this point, sex is almost none existent. We had sex twice last year and so far only once this year. It's not a sex life and any overtures are usually met with rejection so I don't ask much anymore. But I told her, I'm not going to stop trying completely and she's okay with that. As long as I don't pester her about it, she's okay and acknowledges on occasion, that she realizes we're not doing it very often.
This is her comfort zone. She appears just fine with it and will on a rare occasion ( only spontaneously never planned...she hates that too ) we'll have sex together.
You might think this where my ambivalence is coming from but actually...I accepted this as what it is a while ago....
and its very likely never going to change ....and I still want to get married.
Our relationship didn't start out based on sex, and sex was never the reason why I fell in love with her.
She's very self conscious of the weight she's put on in the past few years which she also attributes to not wanting sex. She says she's fat.
I've told her repeatedly that she's perfect just the way she is and she doesn't have to change a thing for me. She's also told me, she doesn't expect perfect from me either.
Anyway, the notion of marrying someone going in knowing that the sex life is virtually none existent seems very strange to me. But I don't have the sex drive I use to so I can relate to that.
What I find most important now is different from the past. And based on what I find most important...I have everything I need and more.
Is this just crazy? Or am I missing something here?
I could use a reality check to resolve this ambivalence.
J
Not crazy
Submitted by Catterfly on
Hi J,
You need to have a really honest discussion with yourself about what you can truly accept happily. Many people live like this (some of us here have for years), and marriages can work if neither party feels neglected.
If you're a reader, I've read a book that helped me grapple with this a bit: Sexual Intelligence by Marty Klein. To sum up, sex in middle age and beyond won't be what it was as a teenager. So for many couples, the definition needs to be redefined as they age and they may need to explore other alternatives. He goes into what some of those alternatives might be, which might help you think through a potential future with her.
For what it's worth, you sound really happy in your post. But this is a big decision and I wish you the best.
Thank You Catterfly
Submitted by J on
I'll definitely give your book suggestion a read. It sounds interesting and possibly exactly what I need. And yes, I am happy to have found someone who compliments my weakness' with her strengths and vise versa, we fit together well in that way. It's pretty balanced overall. The division of labor is nearly seamless. She cooks, I do all the grocery shopping.( yes all )
She does the inside cleaning of the house, I do all the outside like mowing, trimming ( every week religiously. ) I never miss a week. The outside looks as good as the inside...I'm a perfectionist too! Lol
And we do a lot tasks together like...she'll wash the dishes, I'll do all the drying and putting away assembly line style. It's a pretty tight operation and just fell together without any discussion. There's never been conflict there. We both do our parts consistently every time.
We take turns with errands but mostly...I'll do anything that has to do with home and car repair/ maintenance ( I've never hired anyone...I've always done handy man stuff myself including electrical, plumbing, painting, etc....jack of all trades ) so I do all those kinds of errands...and she'll do anything else like home decor and home stuff that she also excels at. We're definitely a balanced team together. We're both artists so her interstate are also my interests.
Traveling is easy too. We do all the planning together and split the logistical tasks. We both like to do the sane things, go to the same places and share many of the same tastes including food. Many times...we order the same thing at restaurants. She's even accused me of just saying I like the same things to get on her good side. I have to tell her no! I actually like it too! Lol
This, I've never had. This makes life simple and easy and conflict free. No one feels like they're doing more than the other but we each have our special areas and we're both strong in those as well.
We really are a great team together and I'd been hard pressed to ever find that combination of things in anyone else. In fact, I've never experienced this combination before!
And because of this, I believe, makes life together calm and peaceful. We just haven't run into many of the issues that I've read about in other couples or in my own past relationships. I realize, not raising children at the same time makes this more possible.
Peace of mind is not something you can put a price on. Like the commercial said.... it's priceless.
So as a trade off....it makes sex way down on the priority list.
Interdependence
Submitted by J on
Just a quick note that came in late ( as usual ) about my description on how my SO and I operate as a team. If I'm not mistaken...I believe this is an example of interdependence in action. ( at least around household chores )
I could have simply said....interdependence feels good when things are not out of balance.
And trading off lack of sex in exchange for interdependence is a fair trade.
Living life by intentionally
J
Intimacy in middle age
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I imagine meeting a partner in middle age would always mean adjusting to that someone's set ways. That could be limiting, but also good. If it's stated outright what you both need, that could make you feel safe. You would both enter a marriage with your eyes open.
On the other hand, it's always seemed to me it's hard for a person to feel sexually rejected, whatever the reason. Are you sure you won't feel hurt by this? I understand your hesitation to marry celibacy, simply because you state physical intimacy is your number one love language.
I've Been Confronted With this before Swedish Coast
Submitted by J on
Not only with rejection in the area of sex, but even being tested by the marriage counselor my ex-wife and I were seeing. I had also gone a number of years with very little sex with her. Actually, the frequency wasn't much different as it is now. Which is one reason I was already assuming the worst. Back then, I would definitely consider myself hypersexual. My ex even accused me of being a sex addict but was told by a sex therapist, on her insistence, who said no....but you're way up there in sex drive...in a pretty small group from the whole. Anyway, I was rejected a lot and really not handling it well at the time.
And the marriage counselor would tell me to get off this one track mind about sex because you've got other things you should be focusing on.
He finally asked me: "what if, you two never have sex again? Would you stay with her" "
For me, that was a moment of truth. I simply locked up and couldn't answer that question. Sex was such a main priority I had nothing I could say. The honest truth was in my heart, the answer was no...but I couldn't even bear the thought to answer.
So not long ago....I asked myself the same question and I didn't hesitate to say Yes. I knew the answer immediately without question. In reality, I don't believe that's actually going to happen. I believe, it'll continue to stay about the same as it's been. I still won't really get a say, but it still won't be never. The past being best predictor of the future.
My biggest issue in making a decision is my inability to see black and white at times when I need to. I almost always see things in shades of gray with endless possibilities. Sometimes that serves me, sometimes it doesn't. It's why the marriage counselors test question helped show me how I really felt. And this time I had a different answer without the ambivalence involved. That for me is very telling.
And as far as my #1 Love Language. I believe it was touching, not sex. I get to touch her every night. I notice this amazing thing that happens when I simply reach over and touch her whether she touches me back. Most the time she does but....
My blood pressure instantly drops and my heart rate falls. I feel instantly connected just from touching her.
As I mentioned above....I value connection most of all. This is physical connectedness even if it isn't sex. Celebacy infers that you aren't touching anyone intimately either I think? Maybe it doesn't but regardless....it's not being entirely alone and not touching another human and making that connection.
There you are then
Submitted by Swedish coast on
It seems you don't find sex crucial, enjoy a lot of physical intimacy, and are profoundly happy with your partner? That seems to me to answer your own question. Congratulations, I wish you the best of luck!
Not exactly Swedish coast...
Submitted by J on
I do enjoy a lot of physical intimacy and I am profoundly happy with her. Isn't that the definition of ambivalence?
I think the only real answer here is to accept it, and adjust to it. Either that or find someone else or just leave.
Will I truly be happy? I am already happy.
Would I be a little more happy if I had exactly what I wanted? Maybe so.
You can't always get what you want....
But if you try sometimes....you get what you need.
One of my mental blocks....
Submitted by J on
that I already figured out, has to do with social norms. One is a fallacy of logic and a related one I'm calling the "should be trap" for lack of the correct name.
The fallacy of logic states: just because many believe something to be true does not mean it is so.
Followed by the "should be trap"which is about deviations to societal ( or religious ) norms. I know this one well. I stayed in a failed marriage because I made a promise it was for life. Without that promise I was desperately holding onto, I would have left long before.
In my current situation or dilemma ... the should be trap says that sex always goes with marriage. Even without the furthering of the species part...sex is a stand alone feature.
In my mind....who says? I've been labeled eccentric before, even if I don't wear a red beret with a long twisted mustache, I wouldn't argue that my thinking is, much of the time. There's no law that says you HAVE to have sex when your married, and plenty of people have sex when they're not. It's a free country as they say. And me being that eccentric type, I have no problem with the unconventional in general.
Already got to that part on my own before I made this post.