I have been posting a lot the last couple of days, it seems, and I must say, I feel like my ADDwife and I (non-ADD) have been making some progress. Granted, it's in fits and starts, but it's progress nonetheless. And progress is GOOD!!
I'm still having problems, though, in figuring out where *I* am in all this. My wife often says "You are making everything be about the ADD." To a degree she is probably right. But I realized this morning (and in reading some of the replies to my recent posts) that my wife is *also* making it all about the ADD, or at least she seems to be making it all about *her*.
This morning's example might help illustrate what I mean.
My wife has not slept in our bed for the last three nights. This isn't because we haven't been getting along. It seems to be related to her ADD. But I'm not *entirely* certain of that.
The first night, we had gone up to bed together. Then, after some small talk and cuddling, we said "Good night." My wife was tossing and turning, which was keeping me awake. So I said "You're having trouble falling asleep, aren't you." She said yes. I said, (not in an aggravated tone, but just a simple statement, and I think she took it as such) "You're keeping me awake." She said "I'm gonna get up and do such and such."
Now, such and such was a 10 minute task. And I knew from experience, that if she got up, she'd likely be up all night. So I said, lightheartedly, "OK. See you in the morning." She said "Oh, no. I'll definitely be back up."
The next morning, when she was still on the couch, I greeted her with "Good morning, honey. Were you able to get any sleep?" She said she wasn't, and told me a little about how she had tried to get some sleep, but couldn't. I said "I'm sorry you didn't get any sleep honey."
That night, when I was ready to go to bed, I said "I'm ready to go to bed honey. Are you coming?" She said "Yep." I said, "OK, I'll see you up there."
The next morning, when she came to bed 10 minutes before my alarm clock goes off, she said "Oops, I fell asleep on the couch." I don't think I made any response to that. But what I *felt* was: I wish she had come upstairs to bed instead of falling asleep on the couch.
Last night, when I was ready to go to bed, I said "I'm going up to bed honey. Are you coming?" She said "Yep." I said, "OK, I'll see you upstairs," fully expecting her to come up right behind me. She did not.
I woke up in the middle of the night and when she wasn't in bed, I started thinking "Hmmm. I wonder what's going on? Is she intentionally not coming up to bed? Probably not . . . but . . . . did I do something wrong? I hope not. I wish she wouldn't stay downstairs all night."
And then she came up just before my alarm went off. While I was in the shower, I was thinking, "Does she think I don't care if she's not in bed? Does she think it doesn't matter to me, and is that making her feel bad? Probably not, because I have told her on several occasions in the past when she hasn't come to bed that I miss her when she is not in bed. That I feel 'safe and secure' when I wake up in the night when she is there. That I sleep better when she is there. etc. Still . . . maybe she's in a place where she thinks she doesn't matter to me because I haven't said anything about her NOT being in bed."
So I asked her "Honey - do you think it doesn't matter to me if you are not in bed?" She said "no."
I said "So then you know it bothers me that you haven't been in bed the last three nights, especially since you told me the last two nights that you would be right up?" She said "yes."
I wanted to say "Then why haven't you come up to bed???"
Instead, I said, "When you don't come up to bed for three nights in a row, it's hard for me not to take it personally. I know you probably don't mean to make me feel bad, but I can't help it, I still do." I had a hard time getting the words out, because I started crying as I said "it's hard for me not to take it personally."
I waited . . . . . no answer. I waited some more . . . . no answer. I waited a little more . . . . . no answer. So I said "Are you thinking about what to say?"
She said "I don't know *what* to say."
I said "Can you tell me what you heard *me* say?"
She said (after a couple of false starts where I had to stop her and ask her again what she heard me say): "I heard you say that when I didn't come up to bed for three days in a row, especially when I told you I was coming up, it made you feel really bad." And then she said "I'm sorry."
Which sounds great, right? Sounds like she get's it, right?
The thing is - that's not how if *felt* to me. She said the words, but what it *felt* like she was really saying was "I hear that something I did made you feel bad and that makes *ME* feel really bad." or "I hear you saying that you think I am a terrible person for messing up again." Or something of the sort. Her body language and her tone made it clear that she was feeling like she had just been reprimanded for doing something bad and that *she* felt guilty/bad for what she had done.
Now, I have heard on here that is a typical reaction from someone with ADD. That when we nonADD spouses point out something they did that made us feel bad, that they feel just *awful* that they messed up *again* and disappointed us *again*. I get that.
But here's the problem. What I *needed* was to hear her tell me she understood what *I* was feeling. Instead, what I got was what *she* was feeling.
And so, it felt like it became all about *her.* Which meant it felt like it was NOT about me. And my whole reason for bringing it up was for her to understand how *I* felt as a result of her actions. Which is why I entitled this post "Sometimes it's got to be about me."
This is a frequent dynamic we have. I try to tell her how I feel. She hears what she did made *me* feel bad. She feels *terrible* about that and she feels like a *total failure* as a wife. And then it becomes all about *her* - without my feelings getting acknowledged or addressed.
I know she doesn't do this on purpose. But I need to have *my* feelings validated, and I don't know how to do that.
In fact, after she said what she said, I followed up with something like "I know the words you just said sounded like you heard what I said. But it doesn't *feel* to me like you really *heard* it. It felt more like you were saying 'I heard you say I did something bad. You are right. I am sorry for what I did.' I didn't hear you say 'Wow - that must have felt terrible. You must have felt sad, or lonely, or neglected, or *something*.' And so I don't feel like I have any closure."
She didn't seem to get that. She started to get defensive, etc. So I role played *her* and said "here is what it sounded like to me when you said those words." And I proceeded to repeat her words in a very flat monotone.
I think she got it. Because she laughed. But then I started crying again. And she gave me a hug.
So the interaction ended OK, sort of.
But this not being heard is really taking a toll on me.
I recognize this
Submitted by banaany on
Hello!
What you describe sounds painfully familar to me. When your feelings are being 'ignored', the pain you feel inside will remain a dull ache. I think you really handle the situation well by the way. Sad, that your wife cannot give you reassurance. I've had this many many times for a couple of years and I think that this is a difference in thinking is. My partner has had absolutely a hard time with comforting me. In fact. The comforting wasn't there at all. When he had done something awfully, like breaking my trust he would remain silent, hyperventilate or get really bad stomach cramps which resulted in me comforting him. I know he wasn't faking it, but it hurt really bad when he had hurt me really bad and did nothing to fix it. Literally absolutely nothing, or he made it worse by starting an argue. I started getting really mad at this behavior and now it's actually better! I've tried all the correct and fair ways to communicatie with him in the past, but to be honest, they didn't work...They never really worked in the first place with my partner if I wanted to make something clear.
Greetings from Holland
Many ADDers have trouble
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Many ADDers have trouble sleeping. I can't stand having someone in my bed with me. Hubby had to get a king sized bed if he wanted to sleep in the same bed and he is not allowed to touch me after cuddle time and we often have separate blankets. It is the only way I can get any sleep. Otherwise I toss and turn all night. Sometimes I still sneak down to the couch. Not out of lack of love or care for my hubby but out of the desperate need for sleep.
Does your need to have her in bed with you trump her difficulties getting to sleep and her need to have a good night's rest? Can you work out a compromise of some sort so they you get your cuddle time and she gets to sleep comfortably?
When hubby and I were in a smaller home we would share the bed on nights I didn't work and slept in different rooms on nights that I did, though we always had a short cuddle time before bed. It wasn't perfect but it was what I needed in order to be not sleep deprived. Sleep is a basic human need, right up there with food, water and breathing. Cuddles come in second. It was hard on hubby but he knew that a person's need for sleep is more important that a person's need to have someone in bed beside them. He used to say "They use sleep deprivation as a form of torture for a reason" so sweet and understanding my hubby can be :-)
Now about this conversation you had ...
Please keep in mind that ADDers have poor communication skills, or rather communicate differently than nonADDers. When your wife says she doesn't know what to say she means that. When I interact with nonADDers my mind is often scrambling trying to figure out what it is they want to hear from me. Because if it isn't exactly what they hope for, they get hurt or upset or see things in a poor light.
Also you are reading waaaaaaay to much into what she is saying and how she is saying it. Usually we are so lost as to what to say we just start randomly saying things, anything, covering all bases, hoping that something is the right answer.
Also there is usually no hidden message or undercurrent or anything underneath or behind our words. Other than desperation. Have you tried taking what she says at face value, rather than adding your own feelings and impressions and meanings to her words?
Please forgive my bluntness. I am not trying to be mean or rude. I may not communicate this properly or as politely as you may like and for that I apologise.
The whole
"She said the words, but what it *felt* like she was really saying was "I hear that something I did made you feel bad and that makes *ME* feel really bad." or "I hear you saying that you think I am a terrible person for messing up again." Or something of the sort. Her body language and her tone made it clear that she was feeling like she had just been reprimanded for doing something bad and that *she* felt guilty/bad for what she had done.
But here's the problem. What I *needed* was to hear her tell me she understood what *I* was feeling. Instead, what I got was what *she* was feeling."
Thing sort of confuses me. She did acknowledge your feelings as best she can, yet this is still not good enough?
After having you stop her several times, trying to wheedle a specific phrase or answer out of her you expect her to not be reacting defensively, not be upset and not act as though she was being reprimanded? You were reprimanding her, not only for not coming to bed but also for not communicating exactly the way you want her to. For not telling you what you want to hear. If someone interrupted you repeatedly while trying to express yourself, making you start over and over again until you got it just right, how would you react?
I'd be having an anxiety attack and would have to leave the room.
She did try to validate your feelings but then she also said she was sorry and felt badly she hurt your feelings, and that is making it all about her?
Is she to only talk about your feelings in these situations?
Honestly from an ADD perspective I see that you are as much all about yourself and only your feelings as she is about hers.
What is it exactly that you want from her, and is it possible for you simply just tell her right out. Rather than hint and prod and wheedle and interrupt her? Could you not make her play guessing games at what you want?
Every time you stop her and make her say something again you are saying that she isn't good enough, her ability to communicate isn't good enough and that she must tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Have you guys gone to therapy to help you learn to communicate with each other? Both of you are speaking a different language and need to learn to speak a new one.
I just don't understand why
Submitted by brooks30 on
I just don't understand why ADHDers spend so much time trying to figure out what the "right thing" is to say instead of using that time to actually hear what we are saying and then respond. This is something I could never understand and still don't. I would really like your insight on this Miss Behaven.
When my ex-ADHDer used to do that it would drive me nuts...I could actually see him trying to think up the perfect answer. The significant others of ADHDers don't want to hear words, we want to know we are actually being heard, being acknowledged. We want the response to come from the heart; not some fairytale response which usually just becomes a lie in the end (since it never carried any truth to it...it was just something told to us to keep us un-angry for the time being).
"I just don't understand why
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
"I just don't understand why ADHDers spend so much time trying to figure out what the "right thing" is to say instead of using that time to actually hear what we are saying and then respond. This is something I could never understand and still don't. I would really like your insight on this Miss Behaven."
Basically it boils down to:
* A racing brain that doesn't shut up long enough to listen.
* A history of foot in mouth syndrome.
* Anxiety
* The fact it often takes us longer to plan a response, so we better start thinking now
* Fear
* The fact that we communicate so differently we do need to have a formulate or plan to figure out how to talk to you
* We have to learn your language, we learn this by rote
* Speaking off the top of our heads or from the heart doesn't work. It confuses you, angers you, or it just comes out wrong or is taken the wrong way.
* You take forever to get to the point (from the ADD brain perspective)
your reply with a list
Submitted by brendab on
Miss Behaven,
I get a lot of value when you post replies with a list. Your posts are very clear and understandable, something I should learn to do better as a nonadder.
Brenda
Sometimes It Has Got to Be About Me
Submitted by srm600 on
It is hard to communicate with a spouse with ADHD because they do not have empathy. You stump them when you want an answer about understanding your "feelings" regarding not sharing the bed or any other difficult situations. She/he cannot connect with your feelings because they do not have the wiring to KNOW what your feelings are like. When pressed to make a statement they are at a loss. My husband would hear me out, patiently sitting there, rather blank look in his eyes/face but didn't have a clue about my feelings behind the words. I could commit myself to a psychiatric ward and he would say "she is a little upset". Needless to say we divorced when he became unfaithful after 12 years of marriage, 2 children. He was also in trouble with IRS over gambling and was almost put in jail. They really just can't help it. He would also say, "don't take it personally"!
My husband works in mental health
Submitted by Sueann on
My husband is fabulous with his severely mentally ill clients, incredibly patient and empathetic. But when he comes home, there's no empathy. He just looks at me like a piece of furniture. I've been known to call him at work (which he doesn't like) and ask him to think of me as a client, so he'll pay attention to what I need. Then I say I'm angry about him not paying attention to me, he says the problem is me!
Yes - treat me like a stranger!
Submitted by shore on
It's actually one of the things that I think can make it hard to spot adult ADHD. When my wife is "on", with a client, she listens, focuses, pays attention. It makes it easy for the ADD partner to avoid seeing it, and for therapists.
When she is at home, she turns all that "off" and all the behaviors appear.
So like you, I wish she would treat me as well as she treats strangers ...
Bluntness OK; Sweeping Generalities - Not So Much
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Hi Miss B,
Thanks for taking the time to so thoroughly reply to my post. Much of what you say helps me understand what my wife is probably experiencing. I always appreciate hearing your perspective.
I have a request. Just as you have asked that we nonADD spouses not lump all people with ADD into the same boat, I ask you to please give the same consideration to us nonADD folk.
I refer to this statement you made: "When I interact with nonADDers my mind is often scrambling trying to figure out what it is they want to hear from me. Because if it isn't exactly what they hope for, they get hurt or upset or see things in a poor light." (bold added)
When I am having these kinds of conversations with my wife, I don't have a notion of exactly what I want her to say. I do want her to attempt to hear what I am feeling and let me know she understands I feel bad, perhaps by saying something to indicate that, or perhaps by doing something like giving me a compassionate look and making some sort of comforting gesture.
You ask "Is she to only talk about your feelings in these situations?" To which I answer "of course not." But because I began the conversation talking about my feelings, I would like to know that she heard what I said, and gets what I said, before moving on to talk about her feelings.
There are lots of times when I talk to her about her feelings in order to understand where she is coming from. I would like to sometimes, just sometimes, talk about my feelings.
In the case above, her response to me was more her trying to communicate that she knew she had messed up somehow and that she had to apologize as a result, and so she apologized. I admit, that's better than nothing. But I did not get a sense that she was acknowledging my pain at all.
Again, the words make it sound like she did. But I have to tell you, the way she said them was more the way someone who has memorized some words without understanding their meaning might recite them. Or the way someone who does not agree with the content might say them. It's kind of hard for me to explain.
I know part of the problem is that it's difficult for people with ADD to express feelings. She has a hard enough time expressing her own feelings, let alone mine. I do feel bad that she struggles with that.
I'm just saying, the fact that it is difficult for her is taking its toll. Because it feels like my feelings are not being validated. And without my feelings being validated, it is much harder for me to get over them, though get over them I do.
Not a Generalization, My Reality
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
That was not meant as a generalization of NTs. It is was an honest description of my perception. I don't know what nonADDers are thinking or feeling or what they do or do not want (that's the problem!). But I do know that the majority of the time whatever I do or say isn't right or good enough. I wasn't saying that all nonADDers want something exactly right, I was saying that I go though life trying to figure out what is expected of me and (more often than not) failing at that. However NTs operate, think, feel and expect ... I go through life scrambling trying to figure out what it is they want to hear from me because from my experience and within my anxiety riddled brain, if it isn't exactly right, it will be rejected. Welcome to ADD, anxiety and self esteem issues.
Beside which, it has become clear based on the comments I receive, generalizing about ADDers is acceptable on this forum, especially when venting about the ADDers in your life. Therefore, all things being equal ... ahem
... back on topic ...
Please forgive me for being obtuse, but exactly how does one go about validating someone else' feeling any ways?
Validating Someone Else's Feelings
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Maybe this explanation, along with examples, that I pulled from another blog, will help illustrate what I mean by validating someone's feelings:
To validate some one’s feelings is first to accept some one’s feelings. Next, it is to understand them, and finally it is to nurture them. To validate is to acknowledge and accept one’s unique identity and individuality. Invalidation, on the other hand, is to reject, ignore, or judge their feelings, and hence, their individual identity. When we validate someone, we allow them to safely share their feelings and thoughts. We are reassuring them that it is okay to have the feelings they have. We are demonstrating that we will still accept them after they have shared their feelings. We let them know that we respect their perception of things at that moment. We help them feel heard, acknowledged, understood and accepted. Sometimes validation entails listening, sometimes it is a nod or a sign of agreement or understanding, sometimes it can be a hug or a gentle touch. Sometimes it means being patient when the other person is not ready to talk.
Non-Validating Conversation
Louise: We sure didn’t spend much time together at the beach.
Mac: I don’t know why you say that. We got up together and walked on the beach at least two different mornings.
Louise: It just didn’t seem like you included me in your plans very much.
Mac: Well, I guess that my priority was to spend time visiting with my brothers this week.
Louise: It seemed like you carved out special time to spend with your mother, your brothers, and one of your sister-in-laws, but there weren’t any special efforts or plans for us to spend time together.
Mac: I didn’t know you felt that way. You should have said something.
Louise: You had three days to yourself at the beach, before I arrived, to spent time anyway you wanted to and I just expected that when I arrived I would have gotten more of your time and attention.
Mac: Well, Louise, I can assure you that I wasn’t trying to avoid you. I was just trying to spend some time with Barry and Chris. I don’t get to see them very often and just wanted to make the most of my time at the beach.
Louise: It’s no big deal. I was just hoping to spend more time together. It seemed like everybody was going in different directions and doing their own things. Then, when I had to leave to go to my conference on Friday morning, it didn’t feel like I had had much of a vacation with you.
VALIDATING CONVERSATION
(partners feelings are heard)
Louise: We sure didn’t spent much time together at the beach.
Mac: I can see how you would feel that way. You were only able to be there for three days and a lot of the time I was hanging out with my brothers. However, if I remember correctly, we did get up to walk the beach together on two different mornings.
Louise: Yes, and I appreciated those walks that we did take together. It just didn’t seem like you included me in your plans very much during the rest of our time at the beach.
Mac: It sounds like you really missed me and felt left out since our time together was so brief and unpredictable. Meanwhile, I was spending lots of time interacting and doing things with other members of the family. I guess that my priority was to spend time visiting with my brothers this week.
Louise: I realize that you don’t get to see your family very much. They live in New York and Pennsylvania, and there aren’t many opportunities to get together. It’s just that you carved out special time to spend with your mother, your brothers, and one of your sisters-in-law, but didn’t seem to make any special plans for you and me to do things together.
Mac: Wow! I had no idea that you felt that way. Sounds like it really did appear that I was making special efforts to connect with everybody except you. I’m sorry that I got caught up in the excitement of seeing my family in a way that kind of left you on the sidelines. I sure wish that you would have said something at the beach while this was all happening.
Louise: I can understand how easy it was for you to forget about me a bit when you were so excited and charged up about seeing Barry and Chris. It’s just that you had a full three days at the beach, before I arrived, to spend anyway you wanted. I guess I envied you those extra days and had hoped to be a little more at the center of your attention when I finally arrived.
Mac: That certainly makes sense. After all, this was our vacation too and we didn’t spend all that much time with one another. I can assure you, Louise, that I was not trying to avoid you. I guess that I just had some tunnel vision with regard to connecting with my brothers.
Louise: It’s no big deal. I was just hoping to spend more time with you. It seemed like everybody was going in different directions and doing their own things. Then, when I had to leave to go to my conference on Friday morning, it didn’t feel like I had had much of a vacation with you.
So familiar.... As careful as
Submitted by Jae on
So familiar.... As careful as I would be with words and expression when I tried to explain why something bothered me, it was always heard by him as criticism. He'd say stuff like "I feel like the bad kid again".
Conversations about problems went nowhere. I would speak, then wait for a response, and nothing... I could practically "see" the sentences forming in his mind, then another one, and most of the time I got nothing back. Or "I don't know how to say it" and they it wouldn't be about what I said any more. It would become about me trying to help him figure out what he was thinking.
I stopped trying to talk about things that bothered me, deciding if something bothered me it was my job to find a way to deal with it. And I did. But that hurt us in the long run.
I wish I had something more to offer you than empathy.
Sleep
Submitted by Sueann on
I have sleep apnea, which I did not know until I got married, since my cats never mentioned it to me. The first night my husband (ADD) slept over, he ended up on my couch, which resulted in some funny interactions. (blush). As soon as we got married and I got under his insurance, I got "his" diagnosis confirmed in a sleep lab. Unfortunately, at that point he lost his job and we couldn't go any further with treatment. We think the sleep deprivation I caused him might have exacerbated his depression and ADD and made everything worse. I would explain why he suffered a major depression shortly after our marriage. Eventually, I got a sleep apnea machine (C-PAP) from a charity associated with a local hospital. It has made so much difference to my life. He found that "white noise" easier to sleep with than the snoring and gasping for air.
He never slept with anyone before me. He didn't let his cat sleep in his bed at night, although the cat slept on his bed during the day. So I was the first and he slept by himself in a king-size bed for many years. The main problem is that I can't touch him while he's asleep. He cries out like I have hurt him. He also talks in his sleep. I think he'd sleep better without me but our couch is not very comfortable and we have only one bed.
If she is having trouble sleeping, try asking at her next doctor's appointment if she could take her meds at a different time, or maybe try a different med. One of my hubby's doctors advised a dose of Benadryl at bedtime to help him sleep while on his meds.
But I agree with Miss Behaven, it isn't personal against you, and I think you are overthinking it. As long as you take time to cuddle and so forth, let her sleep alone if she needs to.
Clarification
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Sorry
Submitted by Sueann on
No Offense Taken
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Oh, no offense taken. I just didn't want this string to get sidetracked into a discussion about how people with sleep issues of people with ADHD, how to deal with them, etc. Thanks for your reply.
I'm going yard with this one...well maybe...
Submitted by tornadoscott on
So I think we can see from this post that feelings are difficult things for people to grasp sometimes. I believe what you're wanting to feel is that your wife is taking some time to explore and identify what has happened to your feelings, not simply just offer up a boilerplate answer that provides a summary of the issue and an apology. Maybe I can come up with an example...
Darth Vader: My dog was crossing the street and got hit by a car. I've had him for so long and he meant so much to me. He was just a puppy when we blew up Alderon with the death star and I'm so sad that this happened and that he's gone.
Luke: Aww. I'm sorry that your dog got hit by a car. I feel bad.
Darth Vader: Yes but....
(I hope George Lucas isn't lurking around here...)
Anyway, is that an example of what you're saying is happening? Vader is obviously not sad just because his dog was hit but more because of what the dog meant to him. Luke has addressed the incident and offered an apology for what happened but from his statement I wouldn't say that he has conveyed that he understands what the dog meant to Vader... am I close here?
This issue makes a ton of sense to me, I've given your wife's response a hundred times and I don't think it has to do with trying to say the right thing or tons of distractions making it difficult to get the words out. (although I could be 100% wrong on that...) I think it has something to do with how ADHD-ers see their emotional rights. So, as an adult with ADHD I often times felt as if I was a little less justified in addressing things that had hurt my feelings or that I disagreed with because I knew that on the flip side I was hurting people's feelings even more. I learned to minimize emotions and deal with them so that when someone presented their emotions to me and explained that they'd been hurt, I wasn't readily able to quantify how hurt they were or what it actually meant to the person without a much deeper discussion. I've actually made a lot of progress with this issue and have a much better ability now to put myself in that persons shoes and feel what they feel and then convey that to them...effectively.
I think you're wife needs to be able to validate your feelings. How she learns to do that I don't know but a counselor could probably help with some techniques. People aren't born being able to validate other people's feelings, they learn how to do it, the fact that ADHD may make it difficult for us to learn those skills doesn't mean we don't have to, it just means we need more practice and different techniques.
So...I think it is important for you to be able to address your feelings, have them understood and have that understanding communicated to you. If you don't immediately feel that they have been understood, maybe more discussion needs to happen...otherwise I just see this turning into resentment which will keep building and building and how could that possibly help the relationship?
Just my opinion though.
I understand what you mean Hoping....
Submitted by Aspen on
and I feel the same way at times. My husband and I have even discussed how sick I am at times of everything having to be set up in an ADD friendly way. This is not my normal way, and I am tired of adjusting my normal way of doing many many things all the time. It feels exhausting, uncomfortable, phony, etc He understands, and so to the extent that he can be the one to adjust, he does so. It makes me feel like he sees us as equal partners with an equal right to have a say in the way things go in our family. We are BOTH concerned that the other is comfortable and it isn't only about him and his ADD--though when the diagnosis was really new (the first year) we were probably much more focused on it and setting up ADD friendly systems. Since, it has finally balanced out more and is coming back to center as he developed better coping strategies.
And I also have experienced exactly what you are saying with regard to hearing the words but sensing no feeling behind it. My experience in my ADD relationship is that he often knows what the *right* thing is to say in a situation and so he will say it but it is SOOOO obvious that it is verbal agreement or expression only but no emotions of his behind it. Mates have a sense about these things and every single time I have questioned it, it has turned out that he had something going on within him that made him resistant to the idea/emotion that I was expressing.
Frequently he isn't good about verbalizing how he really feels or what it is that he resists (sometimes he just disagrees that I should feel that way based on what he has said/done, yet he knows it isn't a good thing to tell another person how they should feel, so he says nothing but just silently resists). What we have done about this, and it may not work so well for you right now because your wife just comes across as resistant to her ADD and its consequences in general, is have the conversation anyway. He is allowed to say how he feels which generally involves him saying something that is offensive to me (like that I shouldnt feel that way) but the entire time he is generally saying "this isn't really what I mean but I can't think how to put it" and then I ask questions until I understand. And then I explain my side until he understands. At the end we both feel validated. I do have to say it can be quite a process, but some of it isn't necessarily ADD vs Non as it is Male communication vs female. I'm sorry that you still struggle so much with the communication issue, but it will probably always be an issue as you two really seem to communicate diffeently.
Anyway know that I sympathize. The ADD spouse is dealing with a lot of *stuff* surrounding their ADD and surrounding issues they have due to going undiagnosed so long, but that in NO WAY means that they don't need to be a good partner and try hard to understand their mates feelings too. Not just about ADD, but about everything. That is what having a partner and a mate mean to me. I have a lover, and a best friend, and a sounding board. Sometimes what needs sounding off about his him and his behavior.....sometimes it is something else, but he loves me and he needs to listen to me and make me feel validated in the same way I try to do with him.
YES SOMETIMES IT SHOULD BE ABOUT YOU!! Ideally in my mind it would be about the both of you all the time, but human nature being what it is, sometimes it is one person's turn to take the other into account more at one time and it is vice versa at another time. I do think that you both you and your wife are focusing too much on her feelings about everything and trying to set everything up to be helpful to her in a way that leaves you left in the cold, and it seems to me to be fostering resentment.
She is just buried within herself and her feelings soo much that she can't see outside herself to the consequences for you. She hears that she disappointed in some way as "You suck as a partner and are lousy and will never be anything" That is a huge overreaction, but it is how she feels. And she is feeling that so much that she can't see the forest for the trees in the fact that is is supposed to be about YOU and not HER. She can't even HEAR what it does to you because she is buried in how she feels about it. That isn't fair to you, but it is where she is right now. I don't think she is capable of considering you right now because she is overwhelmed with herself, but she shouldn't think this is ok long term and neither should you. You can't expect more of her than she can deliver right now, but she should also be working on digging her way out of this hole she is in....everything I read about her screams that she needs more professional help than she is getting, in my opinion anyhow.
At Least You Got a Hug
Submitted by Ren on
Seriously -- you are making more progress than we are.
We are currently at my sister's house with our family. I have a very tumultuous relationship with my sister, which my husband is aware of. In fact, there was an issue brewing before we left, and I had talked to my husband about how I was dreading the visit, because I had a feeling this was going to blow up.
That's exactly what happened. The same night I got here, after spending 9 hours in transit with a 1 and 3 year-old, my sister blew up at me and our argument ended in her telling me I shouldn't come visit her anymore. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that in this particular instance she was the one who overreacted and rejected my attempts to compromise and resolve the situation (sometimes it's my fault, but this wasn't one of them, and in any case her response was way beyond anything either of us has said to each other).
I was so upset, I found my husband upstairs and said, "I'm going to leave tomorrow. You can stay here. My sister and I got in a fight and she said..." and I related the fight, including the hurtful way she ended the argument.
My husband was really silent for a long time, so finally I said, "What's wrong? You look mad."
He said, "I am." Naturally, I assumed he was mad on my behalf, at my sister. But then he added, "I'm mad at you."
What ?!? So I pressed him to explain why he was mad, because I was completely baffled. Finally, he exploded at me, telling me that I was completely selfish because now he was going to be left taking care of our children, and would have to take one of them on his 3-day visit to his own parents -- which wasn't true because we brought our au pair with us and also my parents are here. Keep in mind, that this three day trip to visit his parents was something I had planned for him, and for which he never had to lift a finger.
So I told him that he wouldn't have to take any of our children on his little mini-vacation. I then offered, as potential compromises, that I could 1) wait till he go back from his trip or 2) we could all leave early and he could visit his parents later. To be honest, I was surprised that we were even discussing this because my "decision" to leave was really an angry reaction to my fight with my sister, not something I likely would have followed up on after I calmed down. But, he still didn't let it go. He continued to tell me how difficult I am to get along with, that as a 35-year old woman I shouldn't be fighting with my sister, that I have now placed HIM in a stressful situation, etc. etc.
I finally stopped and realized, WHY IS THIS ABOUT HIM? I just had a fight with MY sister, which ended in her saying some really hurtful things to me. Perhaps it was an immature fight, perhaps not. Everyone has their family issues, this is mine. Isn't the role of a husband, when your wife comes to you upset because she has had a run-in with an immediate family member, TO OFFER UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND SUPPORT? I mean, what dog does he have in this fight? What is to be gained by blaming me, and making me feel worse? And how did the conversation so quickly turn into how HE was going to be inconvenienced by a fight where I was the one wronged?
I then tried to turn it back to me, and explain to him that when I am hurt or upset, even if he thinks I am being irrational or at fault, what I need is A HUG AND SOME REASSURANCE AND COMFORT. We have had a two hour argument about this, which has ranged from the fact that I wasn't crying (so he supposedly had no "cues" to know that he needed to hug me) to me needing to manage my (MY) anger issues. I kept telling him that all of this was irrelevant, that what I need was his understanding. The closest I got was him offering a solution: "You fight a lot with your sister so she is probably right that we shouldn't visit any more until you both figure this out."
I tried one more time: I don't need solutions, advice, blame, or anger. I need understanding. I even gave him the script, and told me he could say the following:
"That really sucks that you had a fight with your sister. You must feel really sad and upset. It was really wrong for her to tell you not to come to her house anymore, especially after all of the effort you put into planning this trip and how much you accommodated her and her family when she visited last month. You must be really bummed out, but don't worry, she'll calm down. I think it would be nice if you stayed, because I think we'll have a good time here this week, and you and I can do some fun things together." *hug*
He STILL would not just repeat what I said. He continued to argue about extraneous details, books I should read, things I should fix about myself, etc. Finally, I got him to say -- in a flat, monotone (and it seemed to me begrudging, though I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt) voice, "I'm sorry you fought with your sister. You must feel sad and upset."
Like Hoping, this just really underscored how much he didn't get it, so I just gave up. I let him be "right" about all the things we were arguing about, told him *I* understood how HE could be upset that I had a fight with my sister, that I was wrong and needed to manage my anger better, and that I put him in an awkward and stressful situation with my family. Then I broke down in tears.
And he still didn't give me a hug.
Absolutely.
Submitted by shore on
Absolutely. Every conversation quickly got turned into a conversation about her needs and feelings. Whatever the original topic was got lost. I can't say I have that figured out yet, but it's certainly familiar.
Not a solution but it helps me - remember she's not doing it on purpose or intentionally. And if you haven't really started the process of working on change and adaptation, you can't say she's chosen to keep doing it (as some people years down the road might see things).
She's not responding that way on purpose. She's not ignoring what you say on purpose. She's not forgetting what happened (in part or entirely) on purpose. (No more than you are getting angry or frustrated on purpose - I mean, if you really thought about it, you wouldn't, right? It's not helping either of you or your situation. Yes, it's sort of human and natural in one sense. But in another - you can actually learn to do what's best for you, which is to not get angry or annoyed etc.)
Anyway, she only hears and remembers some of what each of you did and said, so her responses make perfect sense and seem perfectly appropriate to her. And if you try to talk about it later, she will still insist that it made sense given what she remembers.
That's not an answer, but the fact of that helps me deal with it. From there I can say, so, how are we going to adapt to that? For example, make a statement in the moment, at the time something happens, about the facts of what is going on - rather than assuming she will of course remember what you or she did (an assumption that would work with most people, but not with many ADHDers).
My "favorite" thing with my wife is that in her recollection, she thinks I said or did something that she actually said or did! No wonder things are confused.
Conversations are one sided for me too
Submitted by wagnerism on
One big loss of intimacy and friendship came from this. I stopped sharing. She does notice that I tell her friends more about my day than I tell her. I use that event to start a discussion while she has focus on the issue.
I tried talking to her about her day first and then bring up my stuff, but it didn't work. It also doesn't help that she has no interest what I do for a living.