Hello all. New hear, been lurking a good while. Short version: Married 24 years. DId not know he was an alcoholic or that he had ADHD back then. Years of dealing w his bad choices, everything from the alcoholism, temper tantrums, many, many jobs, along with the frosting on the cake, infidelity a few years ago. Multiple attempts on my part to engage him in treatment. He is under the care of psychiatrist for depression and ADHD. Well, he gets the pills anyway. Therapy not productive bc of lying to his therapist, as well as our marriage counselor. It blew up in his face when he was called on it. Never went back, found ADHD coach for him, but somehow he doesn't have time for that. But, he will prioritize making sure he has his stimulants and pain pills. Bad back, been on pain pills many years.
I sound angry, don't I??? Yes, I am am. Very sad and tired as well. I just can't do it anymore. There is no intimacy,emotional nor physical. Oh he would love to have sex. I would not. I just can't connect w someone who doesn't give me the time of day, makes up all kinds of weird distortions and says really cruel things that just aren't true. Our MC took me aside after the first session and said, "He's a victim, isn't he?" Pegged it! Everything wrong in his life is blamed on someone else. His Dad, siblings, ex wives, employers, and most of all, me.
Anyone else ever reach the end of their rope? I have suggested separating as a last resort, however, he then plays the suicidal card. yes, I know it's a manipulation. It's to the point that my frustration level is so high, I am frequently losing my temper. I'm not a saint and he knows how to push my buttons!
So, I am asking-when did you finally cut the cord? What pushed you over the edge? Help!
Forgot to add-he quit drinking
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Forgot add-he quit drinking several years ago after he attempted an OD when he Dad died. Went to therapist a few times then said "He was good," Went from the bottle to other woman instead. Never dealt w the alcoholism, so the dry drunk behavior is prevalent....too good for AA. Personally, I keep the little blue Al Anon book in my bathroom and read it every morning.
No support at all on this site
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
I don't understand why no one has responded to me. I will seek support elsewhere. Thanks and goodbye-
Sorry you are in such pain
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Sometimes the responses are quick, sometimes they are not. You posted yesterday, so that's not much turn around even as you are in a lot of pain so it feels like forever...
It seems as if you are ready to leave the relationship. I would talk with a doctor or psychologist about the best ways to handle the suicide threats. You aren't responsible for his actions, of course, but on the other hand you would like to know that you did things in a way that you feel good about if he does hurt himself. HIs past history of trying ot OD to deal with pain indicates this should be taken seriously. Just make sure you get good help with this and have the support you need and, possibly, the support he needs.
There isn't much more to say. You're clearly on your way out (unless you aren't, and you're just venting, in which case please feel free to write back), and I hope that your path through what will be a difficult time will be as smooth as possible.
Thank you
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Thank you
I get it!
Submitted by cant-talk-to-fr... on
I have an ADHD spouse who is untreated and it has lead to a great deal of crisis in my life. I've worked hard to keep my family stable and find him help. IT IS SO HARD. I think you have to decide is there enough good to stay? Does he ever support you in being the best you you can be? If not, then you are right to get the space you need. ADHD people seem unable to be accountable in the ways most of us are. Often my husband when he doesn't lash out at me and be defensive around his behavior may have a moment of saying 'you are right' but often there is no follow through.
Only you can decide what is good for you. And what you can deal with. Maybe there are reasons you love your partner and you can see how it can be good again and maybe there is not.
I hope it gets more dealable.
Thanks for replying. No, he
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Thanks for replying. No, he generally takes any success of mine as competitive or, poor him, why not him.....Or just unrecognized, like last week when I got a really good raise at work. Congratulations were said, yes, But nothing else. He has a bad habit of ordering crap on Ebay, Vintage crap. Womes compact from the 1940's, junk jewelry from China, salt and pepper shakers. I could start a store with all the crap in boxes piled up in home office. We have discussions about it, he says he will stop but doesn't. His job is very insecure-sales. He is not making any sales that generate any real income.Three more packages came today. I admit-i lost it-threw them in his lap as he was lying on the couch and screamed WTH do you think you are doing. Yet, he hasn't ordered flea treatment for our dog like he said he would. So the packages are here by the bushel, but the dog is scratching. Could I order it myself? Yes, of course. Not the point. If I have to do it myself, as many other things, why even have a "partner"? I feel sick....stuck.
shopping addiction
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
You are describing what is likely a shopping addiciton - using online shopping to 'scratch the itch' of needing stimulation and positive feedback and feelings. Think of it as 'retail therapy' on steroids...or the equivalent of eating a pint of ice cream all at once - done for emotional reasons, known to not be good for you, but hard to resist.
Oh yes, for sure. if it's not
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Oh yes, for sure. if it's not one addiction, it's another.....he hasn't done the therapy to get to the root of it. Likewise any TX for the adhd, except readily gets the stimulants.
So on top of the behaviors, his lack of motivation to address these things has me quite disillusioned at this point in time. Thanks for replying-
Update-I took a big step
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
He lost his job, again. Job # 7 in the last 11 yrs. Sales job, but wouldn't get off the couch, didn't want to take people to lunch despite having a gas card, expense card, and a salary. Just started a new job, which he almost blew bc of his pot habit and had a problem passing the pee test. During the interim, I was working my regular job, and two farm sitting jobs here in the SC heat, after work.For the last three weeks, every day. The packages from Ebay keep coming, buying his junk that will be so wonderful to sell when he makes the perfect design for his ebay sales page. Charging this crap w no paycheck coming in.Which has never gotten started. He looked at me one day and said, the dogs are almost out of food and I don't have any soap.While he was between jobs. And then I heard him on the phone, trashing me to his friends about what a bitch I am b/c I asked about the packages and questioned why he is buying this stuff w nothing coming in on his end. I was shaming him, etc, etc. I promise I did not yell, scream, or call names. I quietly asked if this was a good idea right now, and said I didn't understand. I think it's his own shame, projecting, all that. I decided I was no longer going to put my check in our joint account, and we would each pay/divide the bills, as we did when we were newly married 25 yrs ago. OMG-he totally flipped out, as I expected.
Well, during the course of the flip out, I learned he paid the mortgage late-well not paid, but scheduled it, and it bounced. And he opened a checking account, and has been looking at apartments. I have been suggesting a separation and that he try some CBT, It's not that he was looking at places, or opened the account, that I have an issue with. It's that I have been very up front re my desires, and told him that I hoped that separating might give us each some space, he could focus on his TX, we might miss the good parts of the relationship. What disturbs me is the lack of communicating, hiding (lying by omission),the victim he plays to his friends outright lying about about our interactions and what kind of person I am. has destroyed any hope I had of us maybe being able to work things out, or, part as amicably as possible.
My sister told me she has been holding back telling me but said that he is a "total flake" and that he has "wasted my life." I have to agree. Of course my life is not over, I am 56, but 25 yrs is a huge chunk, to be sure. Anyone out there ended a long term marriage to an ADHD partner? Or have those folks left this forum a long time ago. Anyone in the process of separating/divorcing? Melissa, he hasn't pulled the suicide card, yet, although I know he told his daughter he is "still breathing, unfortunately." He goes out in the yard and paces and talks very loudly his cell phone, impossible for me not to hear.
Crazy Train indeed....
Submitted by c ur self on
You really don't have a marriage (neither do I) ....many of us don't....(your sister was truthful w/ you....my daughter was truthful w/ me, when she called me a door mat) Husbands and Wives are people who love their roles, and discipline their lives (happily) to those roles...
No one can have that when they are married to an adolescent minded victim!....Who is self absorbed, independent and controlling (a user of others, for self gratification) ....All a person who is subjected to this type mind is looking for is an easy path to their own desires...Sadly we are suppling that....And they only become pouting victims, when you walk away from the enabling and they are forced to deal w/ life without a crutch (US)....But its possibly the only thing that will save them....(allow them to SEE themselves)
Your anger is yours, but, I can see why you have it....After reading your posts, we all can!
Blessings
C
Thank you, C!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
I wrote that post late last night, after he finally realized I was serious about wanting to separate our finances, he lost it on me. Seems he hadn't been listening or taking me seriously (surprise). So now I am the enemy....been painting me that way for a long time. Not surprising, but I guess I am pretty shocked at the lack of insight. More sad than angry today. Luckily I can start work from home today and have had time for a good cry. He's texting me from work, saying he wants to die. Denies suicidal thoughts, just wants "God" to take him. Says he has lost his "best friend." And yet, you cheat, lie, betray, denigrate your best friend? With friends like that.....you know what they say, Nothing I could do was ever enough to fill his bottomless pit of need. I'm not going to drown in it with him. Time to retain that lawyer :(
What a sad thing you're going through, Lynn
Submitted by Chevron on
I haven't looked back to the content of your posts from this May, Lynn, so forgive me if I start from right now & ask you about something you've already done. Do you have someone offline in your life who accepts you as you are, believes what you describe at home and ideally helps you work things through emotionally as well as planning forward? I hope so, because it sure sounds like you need an alternative to the crazy at home these days. Doing all that can be a heavy burden on a friendship, although I've had friends stick with me through hard times, doing that receptive listening of me, and if I asked for it, helping me think through a next step. I've a couple times used regular therapy sessions, so that I knew that at least one hour a week, I could go to a safe place to speak my mind, be listened to, and work on things. Regarding ADHD, I failed to find an offline therapist in my community who was well enough equipped to help me with my own problems in a new marriage that contained ADHD; this site, over time, has given me many perspectives I didn't have, and has helped with the emotional work of not feeling so terribly alone in this kind of relationship. At any rate, I guess the bottom line question is of course the site is here for us all; but do you also have a professional coach/listener and/or an emotionally mature, balanced friend for you to at least tell what is happening to you. Hope so. Wish you well.
Just one mournful comment on what you've told us is going on at your house: so money was his best friend?
Take care, Lynn
Thank you, Chevron!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Yes, I have some friends I have spoken with, who have been watching all of this unfold and they are supportive. However, I don't want them to cringe when the phone rings, unduly burden them with my trials. I know what that is like, being someone on the other end w friends who you listen in horror and sympathy at first, then it gets to where you're thinking, My Gawd-why don't they do something? Or, stop whining and get over it. He's a putz, a jerk, etc. He lied so bad whn we went to MC, made such a scene at the office that I was so humiliated and shocked I left that session. The MC was ready to have him sent to mental ward bc of his behavior as his lies were being confronted. Said it was too painful for ME, didn't want to hurt ME anymore than I already was. BS. It was about him being revealed, which was too ugly for him fo face. I live in a very rural area, so I have gotten a referral to another therapist in the next city. She has been out on medical leave and her voicemail was so full I couldn't even leave a message. Just heard she is back at work now. I would have gone back to my MC, but, she retired.Thank you for your advice-
I Feel Your Pain ...........Lynn
Submitted by kellyj on
It's a very difficult thing you are going through Lynn, and I know just how hard it is doing this same thing myself. It may be a little easier for me to do this now, having done it before and for many of the reasons mentioned here, if a person refuses to see or simply can't see, then they will continue doing what they are doing until they see it? Or not, depending on the circumstances? But as C mentioned and Chevron mentioned too.......something is missing and something isn't being said outright but it easier to see the answers at the end of it....not at the beginning? As you said, you now know all he did was cheat, lie, betray and denigrate you........I could add into that : break you down, diminish and dismiss you as a person, never acknowledge you or any accomplishments you made ( or show interest in things you like or are interested in ) seem to always have a way of turning the attention back of himself in your time of need like you are having right now? Basically threatening to kill himself...or using that as a means to get more attention and sympathy from you? So you'll feel sorry for him and possibly give more too him perhaps? As Chevron pointed out as well it seems like money was his friend, and he's mourning his loss over "it" as she said. One of the hardest things I could possibly do, is write an email to my soon to be ex.......basically telling her the "way it is". This came about when her true feelings and motives were exposed after she had lost her need to put up any pretense or show, other than to set up for "more" in the future. She was already leaving, but the "more in the future"...is really what she was after. I feel horrible for you I really do, but this is where I had to do just the opposite of what I really feel or what is really going on inside me. This was simply one of those times that there is "no win"......in a "no win" situation. Even at the end. There is only 5 choices or ways to go in any situation: Win / win, Win / lose. Lose / Lose, Lose / Win or Pass. In this case "Pass" is not an option anymore.....pass had to come at the beginning but the problem there was.......you were not told the truth back then. You wouldn't have gone ahead with any decisions or plans with him originally, if you were told the truth to begin with....and that is not your fault because the truth would be hard to believe, even if you were told it? Actually, as I have come find.......you were told it at the beginning, you just didn't know how to hear it, and in the way to see it which was outside of you ability or means to do so? You simply believed him like anyone would? I mean, why would expect any different.......you weren't lying to him were you? Or have been? Of course not........it's why you wouldn't think of it or expect it? Who would, from such a convincing liar, that's the point of doing it right? So you won't get caught? The hard part is when you come to realize......"from what?" Getting caught from doing :"what wrong thing you're doing"? Or ...."what "wrong thing" or WHAT......is "missing"?
What I've found is "missing" is not that hard to figure out? Honesty, integrity, character and some moral fiber or belief in some code of honor , some laws or rules that everyone seems to be in agreement with? Ahead of time, one might think or believe unless otherwise stated? And if not, then you don't have much else to go off of except for someones word? And then see if they honor it? And many times, you just have to trust that person, that they are telling the truth or they don't have some "secret agenda" up their sleave or they are not telling you the truth? But the truth does show itself eventually, and the rest will all make sense once it does?
For me to write to my "soon to be ex".....officially in time after the separation period is over and say "you cannot trust me, do not consider me your friend.......if you have made the mistake of thinking I'm your friend, then you've foolishly mistaken me for someone else. You should trust me......no more than you would trust yourself right now as I am a worthy adversary and I can see exactly who you are and what you are after. If you think I don't see this, or you think I don't have your number......again, you underestimated me as your opponent and that was a mistake on your part."
For me, that was like stabbing the knife right into my own heart to do.....but I had to do it, I had no other choice. All I know is this and care share this much with you? Anytime you are in a "Kobayashi Maru" scenario ....or "no win....not way out.....no options or choices available"........something is horribly wrong, if everywhere you look is "Win / lose".....and you are always on the losing end of the stick? Sometimes the best and only way out is to bite the bullet and cut your losses since you lost from the get go......you just finally figuring it out?
If that is all he wants is money.....then that shouldn't be that hard to figure out what to do and how to protect yourself.....a lawyer and a good friend , councilor and ir therapist that you can go talk to and you can trust...is really good advise all things considered but that won't protect your heart and what you have in it? That, you have to do on your own but if you allow him to take what's there that yours and doesn't belong to him, then you are doing that part to yourself by allowing him to take anymore?
Beside, with friends like that......who needs enemies anyway? No great loss, when he wasn't your friend to begin with? You certainly have nothing to feel sorry about and you can forgive yourself for not knowing, and It's not your fault for being lied to that is not your responsibility. A little angry? Why yes, a little bit is appropriate as long as it doesn't go too far and too long? I got mine out all at once ( in writing to her ) which for me was best. If your going to or have to see a lawyer, they will probably tell you the same thing? That is, to do everything in writing as if someone else ( legally speaking ) is going to read it......or possibly will in the future.....just keep that in mind? If you haven't figure this out already.........everything you say, has already been used against you in some way, nothing has changed, except you can make it so, he can't use that as a means to "tear you down" and "berate and belittle you" unless what you say can be used for that? Putting her on notice like that, is letting her know the rules ahead of time....unlike her, who doesn't play by those rules or the same ones I'm playing by? Right now, her decision is "pass". "Pass" is her choice......but she has others if she chooses. She has all the options in the world in front of her....I have taken "none from her".....aside from simply demanding an apology as a condition and show or sign of "good faith". As I explained to her in the e-mail, that was my only "condtion or demand" since I have told her already what I will give her and we agreed and I'm not backing out of that what so ever? What she perfers is "one" on "one" anyway so doing it in writing was the only other requiement I had of her. In writing, that anyone could read or see as a "record" of our conversations? I don't think I'm being that demanding but we'll see where that goes? It's the only "thing" I've asked or demanded from her so it's really not much to ask.....as I see it? I don't expect to get it either, but it's still not much to ask and there's nothing wrong with asking? Expecting ....where this goes all wrong I think?
I expect nothing... I want nothing, or need nothing.....she has no power over me, that's the point.
And you've got to figure.......what ever you write to him no matter what......will probably be used or not, depending on what you say? I just made sure what ever I said would be worthless to "her"......or have "no intrinsic value" for her, as a means to use against me ( anymore ). If anything, that could only be used against her, and make here look bad if I was only telling her the truth, and setting down boundaries that rule of engagement, that she has no other choice but to live by? Fairly, and on an even playing field with no means to cheat or get around what ever it is she doesn't want? Aside from part that I shared here with you. She doesn't get that, no matter what happens and I made sure of it by saying what I did. If all she wants is "stuff or money".....shit, she can have it. I don't want her stuff...or her money nor was I ever a threat to her or had designs on taking any from her from the beginning. That's not what I wanted, at first I only wanted one thing....and that was to be her friend. Just to start. And here I am at the end......giving that friendship back to her. That is what breaks my heart, but knowing I never had hers from the beginning is easier to see there's no loss to begin with....right from the get go I might add? I understand your sadness and I definitely can feel your pain on that b it's always better to know the truth I think, since the truth will always set you free even if it hurts a little, you'll get over it. In the long run, you'll be better off for knowing it as I have come to find myself. You can do it you are not alone.
J
Thank you, J!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Yes, a thousand times yes, J. I feel totally hoodwinked, I did not know. I trusted. Revolted that it took me protecting myself financially to get any kind of emotion from him, other than self pity and worry about what he is going to do about paying his way out of the hole he has dug. It's not hard to figure out what to do. What has been so hard for me is accepting the level of betrayal and deceit, lack of accountability and insight to the consequences of his actions. It was truly alien to me, as if some other entity had come out of the belly of the person I first met.
You Are Very Much Welcome Lynn
Submitted by kellyj on
I know, I know it and I still have trouble with it but that's not a bad thing? I do remember sitting in my T's office struggling with this exact same thing once before......that had to do with these exact same conditions and some very similar "symptoms"....actually "tell tales" as they are called. These really aren't "symptoms" more "markers" or "red flags". And the reason they don't register is actually pretty easy to see too? You get so use to it, or conditioned to think that "this is normal" and "this is how things are"? Well, especially if that's your teacher told you from the get go and where you learned it or they were the ones telling you so? And since that is the only source you have and can trust, ......you might tend to believe them, if you didn't know better? You'd think, I would get the picture after it's happened a number of times before, and I just couldn't see it then either? The problem is, no one can see it.......if they are that good at hiding it? The smarter they are it seems. the better they are at hiding it from you?
"IT"........ means or is, "no conscience". And that's all my T said to me as his answer to why I wasn't getting it? "You have a working conscience" was his reply. "Oh.....I see........OH SHIT???.......... HOLY F$#^*K!!!" It's a concept that is difficult to imagine, that goes along with no feelings either and now that just puts a big kink in your brain that is difficult to iron out? And that is a problem....when that's the problem.
And that is the problem. Somewhere between 0 and 100 ( 100% is Jesus or Mother Teresa 98%? LOL ) and you and me and everywhere else. The assumption or belief that 0 for anything is not even possible but for some it simply true. 0 ....in affect and all otherwise, true. I think "0"...is rare and not anyone we are talking about here.....but in respect to where that line is........5 or 10 out of 100 on the "conscience" scale is not doing so good? LOL At the low end of the scale which is not saying too much? To say mine is working is true but that's not to say it's working 100% either.......I can stand some work and improvement, but I'm not too worried about what I got. It works just fine and well enough....to not expect someone to be a 0 or even a 5 lets say..........if your at 37.......that's a long ways off from you? Actually ( as I am ...I always check, I'm a checker ....but it's mostly to make sure I'm right in what I think? I don't trust myself and that's also good. LOL ) the "37" score was from a online test for "sociopathy" since every sits somewhere on the scale? It was one put out there by CNN "Anderson Cooper" so I said sure...and that was the score I got? It said average was more like 50-60 and then way up there somewhere your a sociopath?
The funny thing in the message or little explanation they give you at the end? It warned that I might be easy target for a sociopath which just bust me up laughing? LOL What is not so funny and actually the serious part in all of this, is the fact that even with and obviously good working conscience.......it's still not enough and that's the problem. The ADHD symptoms....are not the same things or from the same cause or source...but the end result sometimes ends up being the same......except, without the things were talking about? I mean, is you want to see just what the ADHD parts are with a working conscience.....I could tell you that much.....it's the "ones without" that I'm almost worse not better than spotting or seeing any better than you? I may have less awareness ability and all the other things to go with that which simply makes me forget or miss things unintentionally but the effect is the same so I have to do something about that? I can't live with myself otherwise...since I do have a conscience amd my conscience simply won't allow it? I have to live with myself first and foremost and if I can't live with myself, then I shouldn't be living with anyone else either?
But between you and me both and this applies to anyone....."Perfect" is not the goal......."good enough" is and good enough is simply in the ball park with most everyone else? We are all flawed and we all are imperfect....but there is a line in there that is finite and "0".....is a finite number? You can't go any lower than that? So it really depends where someone is on the scale "big scale" that include everyone......there's just no way to know ro see it when someone is doing their best to hide it or deceive you? If that is that person's full time job .....that "deceiving people".....then one might get pretty good at it.....if that is what they spend most of their time doing? It makes sense and it just not that easy to see except if you now the "tell tales" and that is what really starting coming back to me and connecting up. My intuition, is really good at picking these up, I just thought they were something else.....since that's what I was told? By whom......is the next question? I'll give you 0 guess's? LOL
I just saw this quote today...so I'll pass this one along to you to since I think this might apply to you as well right now? Something you get out of all that you've been through....and I've gotten as well in the plositive so all is not a lost since you did get something no matter what? Ready for it? :
"The only real valuable thing, is intuition. Albert Einstein"
Now he's someone I might consider and trust more than many but I know he's right. It is a valuable thing no doubt.
J
37?
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Oh J! Really? I hope you don't buy too much into that online test. From your writings you seem much more than a 37. I appreciate it, tho, for illustrative purposes. Kind of like when I read some horrible news item about awful abuse to seniors, children or animals, especially. My mind just can't wrap around it, How can someone DO that? Those kind of things really bother me....but, back to the subject at hand.
For years my husband drank. He was a professional musician, fit right in w the territory. I didn't go to all of his shows and wasn't aware of the volume, I would be asleep when he came home. He was actually more pleasant to be around, then. Since he quit drinking about 5 yrs ago, his "inner demons" are unmedicated and untreated. Dry drunk syndrome, if you are familiar. Add depression, ADHD, FOO issues, well, phew! Moved on to other addictions instead of the booze. Cheating, smoking lots of weed, porn, shopping. Attitude and mood in the toilet.Too good for AA, therapy failed due to lack of honesty and "victim" stance.
I'm not the same CODIE I once was...have gained some maturity, crave more stability. Went to Al-Anon. Became a Masters Level Clinical Social Worker. Ha! Fancy paper and helping others...and yet, the cobbler's children have no shoes. IOW, easier to be objective w others, difficult in own situation. Odd how money, which I don't care too much about, other than wanting basic things and the wolf from the door, has become the pinnacle here. Sometimes I feel such a fool...I didn't know, how could I not know? When he was cheating, I picked up on some odd moodiness from him, but I chalked it up to , well, his moodiness,It was "different moody," a certain coldness, but, when I asked about it, it was "Nothing." Or, bad day at work, or tired, or whatever :(
Which goes back to your ending thought with the quote from Albert Einstein. Yep, instinct is good to listen to. I should have started snooping back when, I suppose.....
I frequently use a quote attributed to Einstein, too: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
and more recently, this one:
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
Thank you for all you have said, appreciate it, J.
Yep...37 or 38 (lol)
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm laughing because have no idea if that is a legitimate score of something or if that's just the one for the test? It wasn't much of a test in terms of being very long or in depth? I don't put to much towards those anyway either but it interesting and (surprising ) only in the message which was pretty accurate? And just from the little bit of info you shared I a worlds apart from you husband in some ways and not in others but living the secret life thing hasn't been something I really can say was or ever has been a problem for me. Not on the level or to the severity which kind of goes right back to what you are saying too. You see things.....you trust and you don't have any real reason not too. But something says......"that's odd" which reminds me of the movie "Matrix" again. When they noticed ( or one of them ) a "deja vou" moment which meant "the bad guys were coming"....and of course, they did.
This is all part of a patternof mine and I know it's connected to ...or in the way I was abused which is really confusing at times....which is exactly what it feels like? Not disoriented or completely lost....but just confused a little until I stop and go "wait a minute".....which usually comes sooner if not late which if I can help it now.....much sooner for sure, Work'in on it.
Thank you Lynn.....and I like those other two quotes too, they both good ones to keep in mind.
J
Some more thoughts re lack of character or conscience
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
So I have a laptop and am getting ready to switch back to a pc for home use. This laptop is "on loan" to me from my husband, since my PC crashed. I've been going through deleting things that I don't need. He has a bunch of email folders and told me to go ahead and delete them, he doesn't need them. I had never looked through them. I did, yesterday, good ole me wanting to make sure nothing was important. Wow. I discovered another attachment, with another woman, who happened to own some rental properties and he was asking her about renting one of her places.He has 4 different email accounts!
This was when we had taken in his son (my stepson) and his three kids. It was a stressful, to be sure. Our house is not that big, 3 kids under the ten was very crowded, along w my stepson who pretty much let them run wild. He never spoke to me of this person or that he was contemplating moving out. I was shocked. You see, the thing about me, I am am up front kind of person. if I'm not happy, I will speak up. If I want to separate, like I do now, I make it known, and the reasons why...
Anyhow, my point is....it's a pattern of getting with other women when things get tough, oversharing w them, playing the pity card rather than addressing the issue at hand that I am disturbed by and IDK why I have to be knocked over the head w it so many times, but, I NOW, finally, realize it is never going to change.....along w yesterday we were talking him doing more to address the ADHD other than taking Adderall, and he said It's a lot of work, I don't want to do it. Yeah I know by his actions he isn't invested in making any changes since being diagnosed abt 5 yrs ago. Had a well trained therapist go to, all kinds of "reasons" (excuses) why he couldn't go. My insurance would have paid for it.
I told him yesterday that there is always something he is doing behind my back and I can't live this way, anymore, and that it is time for him to statrt lookig for an apartment or something. he didn't understand why I was upset, denied the whole thing. I forwarded him the emails. Not a word in reply...
At home today getting ready to do the eclipse thing, we are right in the path of it, not far from frm Clemson, SC. That song "Total Eclipse of the Heart" is my earworm today...how fitting.
Get Ready......Eclipse!!
Submitted by kellyj on
It's coming to you Lynn......it's eerie cool. We didn't have 100% ( 99.2% ) or something....so it got dark almost twighlight.....but the shadows are all wrong. ( beware the "shadow" ) lol. It messes with your perception but it's really cool. The sun itself through my welding goggles still had a aura of like around it bright enough it doesn't look exactly like the animations or photography but it still really "dark" for 10:30 am. Think of a "Hurricane" coming in darkness but no destruction. Peerty cool indeed.
As far as finding out those after the fact things like that.....I'm sorry to hear about that. It never makes it easier and just fits in with everything else I guess. Like you said, it's no surprise really and I do have a hunch at least that might be at play in some way. I am not the jealous type so I don't really watch for these things. I've seen here contacts but I don't go through them or never have? There are past boyfriends in her contacts with pictures and such, but as I am, I don't hold keeping good memories against anyone and nothing changes that in the future,. My personal experience in the past has been finding someone just before ( my past person ) left me....for how long? I'll never know, it's just something you do have to let go of and filed under "cased closed" and call it good. In some ways though, it's good you found out....it helps to know or explain things and put them to rest once and for all. Either way though, you've got to move on to other things and I'm gearing up to that as we speak.
Eclipse is pretty cool though, been watching it outside right now. It's getting brighter and brighter here right now :)
J
Eclipse and clarification
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
J, The Eclipse was pretty awesome here. We had totality for about 2.5 minutes. One of my dogs started whining and barking a few minutes ahead of time. None of the other animals were fazed at all until it got light again, then the horses and goats were all like, huh? It's morning? Time to run around?
I just wanted to clarify that the other woman I found the attachment with was NOT before we were married. Naturally I know we all had a life before our marriages. What I find disturbing is that he was looking for a way out, getting involved w another woman. WTH was the plan? Leave me at home w his son and three kids? So he can go to LALA land? After all, taking them in wasn't a situation I was totally comfortable with, but, he asked me to help his son and kids, so I did. It was an emergency at the time. So, one person bends over backwards, and when things get tough, the other person makes plans to bail w/o even discussing or sharing what's on their mind??? Infantile and weak, to me. Hey I am not perfect but at least I am honest...
Hi, Lynn-lost. I'm 55 years
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Hi, Lynn-lost. I'm 55 years old, and I've been divorced from a man with ADHD and other things for a little more than one year. We were married 31 years and have two adult daughters. Things have gotten better for me since the separation and divorce although I'm still sad sometimes about the failure of my marriage.
Thank you, Ivy!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Thanks for sharing, Ivy. It's encouraging to hear about others who have gotten out. I know what you mean about the sadness, but, when I find myself going down that road i tell myself it takes two. One person can't keep doing the "heavy lifting."
Can I ask?
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Ivy-Curious as to what was your tipping point, or last straw? How did you make up your mind to finally end the marriage?
I'm Curious Too ....Poisen
Submitted by kellyj on
Just reading through the different thoughts here, what about your thoughts or feelings about why you feel sad? My own thoughts on this are from looking at the positive times and good times you did have and the things you Love about him still.....that is the person and who they are and you miss these things? But in contrast to that, there has to be an opposing side or thing that made it fail which I'm also curious about other peoples thoughts just to see what they are, I am curious and would appreciate anything you could include here.
It's tough, but you can do it
Submitted by sickandtired on
Your ADHD spouse sounds so much like my X. He bought all kinds of broken junk on eBay, saying he would repair it and sell it, but the packages just kept coming in, with none going out. I know exactly how you feel. He is the victim and you are the bad guy because you will no longer take his freeloading and hoarding. Good for you for standing up for yourself. I threw out my X 2 years ago, cleaned up my house from all his junk, and went out and found a new non ADHD husband! I feel like a new person who has an ally she can trust, not some dependent angry adolescent who resents you and threatens suicide when things get tough. If I can do it, you can too. I'm 62, so it's never too late to improve your life.
Thank, you, S.T.
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
ST, thank you your reply. Sounds like you are not Sick and Tired anymore, glad for you. I am in the midst of the journey to get free from what you so aptly describe as "some dependent angry adolescent who resents you and threatens suicide when things get tough."
Mind if I ask?
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
ST-Curious as to what was your tipping point, or last straw? How did you make up your mind to finally end the marriage?
My ex
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
Hi, I'm new here. I recently parted ways with someone who I now suspect has undiagnosed ADHD. He is in his mid-50s. We were together for 5 years and it was the most confusing relationship I have ever been in. Maybe my end-of-my-rope breakup experience might help others. My ex's life mimics so much of what I have read here and reading about what others have gone through has certainly helped me. My story...
- His wife had left their marriage in 2009 and we met two years later. I was hesitant, but he assured me they were divorcing. First he told me he didn't have enough time to work on it because of his job. I accepted that for a while until I noticed that he had enough time for a weekly game night, drinks with coworkers every night after work, vacations, etc. Then he started telling me that he was gathering papers or other vague open-ended things but still there was no actual progress. Sometimes he would go home specifically to work on it but end up doing other things. (Calling his dad, fixing the computer, Facebooking) Then he tried to tell me it was because he was spending too much time with me. Well ..we broke up, it's almost 2018, and he's still married.
- His house was also in disrepair. No heat, broken appliances and furniture, a falling down fence, dead vehicles rusting in the driveway, clutter and unfinished projects everywhere. Desks, tables, the garage and entire rooms were stacked with papers, magazines, boxes of stuff and old or broken items. I thought this was due to depression from the marriage ending. He would talk excitedly about a remodel and how he was going to do repairs and clean things out but that never happened either.
- Then I found out about the financial problems. IRS, defaulted loans, bad credit, almost no retirement savings, no budget. Collectors called his house all day long. Once again, he had all his reasons and waved it all off as no big deal. He had a good income at the time, but instead of addressing anything he would spend hundreds of dollars on everything from little trinkets to big ticket items. Three new bicycles even though he already three or four, two more motorcycles despite already owning three that he didn't use, art supplies, gadgets, expensive clothing, electronics, gifts, whatever caught his eye. This is where I took a big step back. I am financially prudent so this was alarming to me.
There were other things that I didn't really see until I got some distance. Interrupting, blurting out inappropriate remarks, over-drinking and porn. He missed exits or turns when driving and would doze off at odd times, like at the dinner table (in public). He could rarely remember if we had plans or what time and he would need constant reminders to get ready to leave. There were random "investment ideas" - like buying a crappy bar in a bad neighborhood and fixing it up. He spent months meeting with the owner about it. He also wanted to buy a house with me but didn't understand that we couldn't do that while he was still married or in financial distress.
Even little things stand out now – like having 50+ browser tabs open on every device all the time. Putting things in storage and then never giving his wife the key to go get her stuff. Telling a friend he would buy his kitchen table and never following up on it. Once he left me waiting in the car for an hour while he went into work to “check on one thing”. I could go on and on. None of it made sense at the time.
Meanwhile, I tried everything. I supported and encouraged him and told him I understood that it all must seem overwhelming at times. I offered to help him get financial advice and divorce assistance. I offered to help him take things to the dump or have a yard sale. He refused and insisted that it was "his stuff" and that he would deal with it all. I warned him that this was hurting our relationship. I tried explaining that this wasn't just his stuff because it was affecting me too. He told me it shouldn't matter, because he loved me and I should trust him. I backed off completely and didn't say a word about anything for months. No matter what, nothing changed.
He was only happy if we were doing something fun. Which was all well and good and we did have a lot of fun, but reality was not being dealt with. If I tried to ask about how it was going he would get upset and accuse me of being insecure, impatient or having trust issues. Then he would complain and fuss that it was "all on him" and blame his wife for leaving or the kids for not taking their stuff there when they moved out. Eventually it would escalate and he would just scream insults at me and storm out. I would get the silent treatment for days or weeks. At one point I took us to couples therapy and eventually he blew up and stormed out of there as well.
After each angry outburst he would break down and tell me that he knew everything was a mess and that he loved me and wanted to take care of everything so we could have a life together. We would reconcile and start all over but the cycle just kept repeating. I was becoming more and more anxious and resentful over it all.
Finally we had the fight to end all fights and I told him that this was it. We needed an actionable plan to make progress or else I would not be able to stay in the relationship. He argued with me about it for three months. He refused to speak to me in person or on the phone. Only via email. I offered to go back to therapy and he refused. He just went back and forth between blaming me, trying to convince me he was going to do something, admitting it was all chaos and then blaming me again when I continued to insist on a plan. I told him I loved him but I stuck to my guns, hoping that he would have an epiphany and take some accountability or SOMETHING... Instead he broke up with me.
He had lashed out like that and broken up with me once before and that time I chased him. This time I didn't.
It took months for him to come get his things from my house and he had an emotional meltdown when he finally did... slamming things, foot stomping, the works... but that is another story in itself.
So here I am, 9 months later and I am still trying to put the pieces of my heart back together. I loved him deeply. I had developed friendships with his adult children. I was there when his mother passed away. I was there for weddings, the birth of his grandchild. Everything. I was willing to do the hard work but when I needed him to step up and be a partner, he ran. Lynn is right, one person cannot keep doing all the heavy lifting.
I don't know how he could have those moments of clarity where he could admit things were a mess and still not seek out or accept help. If I would have figured it out earlier I would have told him, but we are no longer speaking.
A couple days ago I found out that he's already seeing someone else. I can't say I'm surprised but it really hurts. It makes me wonder if I ever really meant anything to him at all. I had hoped that maybe he would wake up once he realized that I was really gone but ...I guess not. I speak to his son occasionally and nothing in his life has changed. As for me, I am not dating nor do I even want to at this point. I will eventually, I suppose, but I am still healing.
If I boil it down, the financial devastation was the thing that scared me the most. I could not risk losing everything I had worked for over the years. No way. The screaming, blaming and silent treatment was the next biggest thing. I refused to be treated like that anymore. It is not acceptable.
I feel for those who are struggling. I'm lucky that I didn't have legal and financial ties to him but I do understand the emotional pain. It's also helpful to hear that others were able to move forward and find another relationship. I haven't felt any hope around that, and that's been difficult. I have a therapist and that helps, and good friends. Support is important and I hope the best for everyone here in dealing with their current challenges.
If you made it this far, thank you for reading.
I just chuckled through your post CG, it's so familiar:)
Submitted by c ur self on
(He would talk excitedly about a remodel and how he was going to do repairs and clean things out but that never happened either.)
We had these plans and conversations also while we were dating....And since too,...But now I know not to expect any real work to happen....This statement of yours is just the reality for so many minds like my wife's and you ex boy friend....I'm glad you didn't get burdened down w/ that behavior for the rest of your life....
The behaviors being produced by the type mind you are talking about always reminds me how children think and talk...They have all these desires, and wants....but no ability to put legs on them....
C
Yes, when I think back...
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
When I think back about all the gonna-do's and wanna-do's I still shake my head. The list was a mile long.
More than that, I couldn't understand the total blindness to reality. When I asked him once about what he intended to do with the two dead cars in the driveway he literally said "oh that one just needs a new transmission and it'll be fine"... However the reality was that the car hadn't moved in at least 8-10 years. It was faded, rusted and mildewed from the elements, and had a wasps nest under the wheel well. Still, to this day I'm like... how could he not see that.
I am grateful that I am not mired in that situation anymore. The endless frustration and confusion was making me physically ill.... but I'm sad with how it all turned out at the end. At one point I had told him that even if we couldn't be together, that things shouldn't end like this between us. We had too much history together and had loved each other too much to let it happen this way... but it was impossible to make any headway, even then.
Since I'm awake, I might as well finish the story and just get it all out.
When he sent me his break up email I told him to come pick up his things that very day. He refused and used the fact that he needed to work on his divorce as an excuse. I was like, omg - you have got to be kidding. I wanted to throw the laptop at the wall.
After that it took a month (and me having to initiate it) for him to come get his things from my house. When he arrived he threw a tantrum. Arm waving. Huffing and puffing. Yelling at me in full view of my neighbors. All of it. I calmly asked him to please stop and he would not. He continued to yell and scream and tell me no and throw things in the truck. Turns out he had thought he would just show up after all this time and we would talk things over. He had no comprehension that his behavior toward me and the terrible things he had said to me had done so much damage that I didn't want anything to do with him anymore.
Then he yelled that he loved me and didn't know what to do because everything was chaos. It was a mess. I remember just staring at him and thinking it was like watching a five year old. I had seen adults come unglued before but never like that. I took a deep breath and I told him it was not too late to talk to me if he would just stop. I finally got him to calm down a little and he said he thought we should find a time to talk. So I agreed, but then he went silent again for a several weeks. I texted once, but got no response.
After almost two more months of silence, I gave up and I sent him yet another email telling him that, since I hadn't heard from him, to just return the last of my things and I was gone for good. After a week he sent me a response telling me that he wasn't asking me to go away but that he was busy focusing on himself and he had never said when he would be ready to talk anyway. So I was like, look... I am not angry but I am tired and we cannot keep doing this. This is a pattern. If you meant what you said about wanting to salvage anything then this has to be addressed. It cannot wait.
He responded with nothing but blame and insults again so I just said forget it. It was just more of the same. It was never going to change. It took another several rounds of emails but I finally got him to just drop the last of my things off at my office and I haven't spoken to him since.
I still sit here sometimes and just don't even know what to think. It's beyond sad. I'm pretty sure that even if I had figured out earlier that that he had ADHD he wouldn't have listened to me anyway. Everything I tried to say or do, no matter how nicely, resulted in the same lashing out and blame shifting behavior.
Yep...the car thing, I'm not
Submitted by c ur self on
Yep...the car thing, I'm not so sure it's reality blindness....To me it's either an inability to organize or throw away junk (hoarding) or an affinity to junk (comfortable only in chaotic and trashy environments)...Either way the results or the same....
One other point you made.....Him telling you when he refused to communicate a simple reply to your message..."I didn't tell you when I would be ready to talk" ....
That is common for this type self-absorbed mind....The only person that matters to them is them....That is a character disorder....Limited conscience.....It's a complete inability to put themselves in your shoes....You just become a tool for their self gratification....It's like my tools in the shop...I may not use a stilson (pipe wrench) for a year or more.....But I expect it to be hanging where I last left it.....That's fine for a wrench, but, it don't work w/ people....Except for the one's that are so desperate, that they will allow themselves to be used in such an abusive manner.....
C
Thank you
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
Thank you for the validation and explanations. It's helpful.
The lack of empathy and reciprocity in our relationship was extremely hard to deal with and the mixed messages were very confusing. He would do some nice things for me, like bring me coffee in bed in the morning or bring me a flower, or a little surprise gift now and again. He always told me that he loved me and needed me and adored me... every day... but when I asked him for anything beyond the superficial he would get completely annoyed with me and either flat out refuse to do it or do it bitterly and begrudgingly. It really did feel like abuse at times. Like he was dangling love in front of me, but only if I did exactly what he wanted and had no needs of my own. It was a total mindf*ck.
At one point, during our breakup he told me that he had never promised me anything and that I was just another person telling him how to live his life. My mouth dropped open. His life. Not our life together. There was no going back after that.
I don't know if there was true narcissism there. I've done the research and most of the other narcissistic symptoms don't really fit. But there was definitely a high level of selfishness and (what felt like) manipulation. I am grateful that I had years of therapy already under my belt and that I was working with a therapist on my own the whole time, otherwise I might have continued to accept his behavior. To be clear, I don't think that everyone with ADHD is disordered like that, but he certainly was.
For others out there who might be reading, I highly recommend working with a good therapist if you can. Reality would get very muddy when I was in the thick of it. Even now that he is gone, I still feel very out of sorts. My therapist helps me stay on track.
Thank you, CG!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Thanks for sharing, glad you escaped before you were further entangled.
Update-
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Lynn, I hope your skin cancer
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Lynn, I hope your skin cancer is cured, without too much pain and cost.
I was reminded today about how much depression has affected my ex. He has gone into and out of treatment. I know I shouldn't blame him for having treatment-resistant depression but sometimes I think he enjoys the attention he gets when he's sick and thus doesn't work hard to get better.
Thank you, Ivy!
Submitted by Lynn-lost on
Glad you took this step...
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
Funny I just ran across something today that again said that ADHD rarely travels alone, so I'm not surprised. I've poured over various articles and so on but in my ex's case I can't figure out which it might be. Anxiety, NPD, some mix of both.. who knows. Definitely alcohol abuse. Anyway, I'm so glad you are taking care of you - mentally and physically. :-)