My husband has untreated ADD, and we are newly married. When we were dating he joked about his lifetime of ADD and I didn't think much of it, not knowing much about it. Now I see how while we were dating he was hyper focused on romancing me. Which of course won me over. He was over the top good to me, almost being pushy. He actually says he steam-rolled me into marrying him. Ha.
However, now we're approx 8 months into our marriage and I am losing hope at how to deal w his micro analyzing every detail about our relationship. In the beginning if I even mentioned my ex fiancé in discussing past relationships, he became obsessed with if I still loved him. Made me go through all my jewelry and toss expensive pieces he had given me, insisting I was holding onto it cause I still loved him. Then I couldn't even mention speaking to my ex husband about our children, without him making snide comments that I wish I was still married to him. I had to ditch every male friend I had cause he thought there was more to it. I can't talk about men at work cause he asks if I think about having sex with them. And the latest is, I don't want to have sex whenever he wants to, cause I just don't want him. Even though he knows I'm more of a every 2-3 days kind of girl. When he is in his obsessive zone, no matter my tears or pleads he doesn't listen. Then when he has several days of self reflection he recognizes that he over thinks things too much and asks for forgiveness. He has been in talks with his doctor, taking different anti-anxiety drugs. So far, the SSRI's work best, but not completely and the side effects cause him to quit them.
Im at a loss. I hope someone can give some assurance, guidance, and let me know I am not alone. Is this typical of ADD or not?
There are people here who will support you
Submitted by ADH9er on
Try posting on the Anger and Frustration page. Learn all you can.
ADH9er
You Are Not Alone by Any Means..... Jsmith77
Submitted by kellyj on
Welcome to the Forum....I might add:) It's really good that you are recognizing these things early and you are seeking answers and looking for an explanation for what doesn't feel right to you. I might add that your intuition is telling you the right thing.....something is wrong or doesn't feel right and that much I can assure you is right on the mark. I would listen to that feeling and not sweep it under the rug because this could end up leaving you with a lot more problems to deal with in your relationship later on if not dealt with early. I think you are on the right track but I do understand how confusing and at a loss this can be for you?
As far as guidance goes...there is only so much you can do to correct this for you Husband in terms of "fixing the problem" as it comes to you from your husband however....from what little you shared here there is a few things I can say (based on my own experience with this in the past) and what these red flags or signs you are pointing to mean and how I can interpret them for you to start with from the ones I recognize myself. You may feel like you are at a loss and it would not be normal for you not to be. There is a lot you need to know and understand that there;'s simply no way for you to know. If anything....from where you are right now....I think the more you educate yourself on ADHD and the impact or effect this has on your relationship (and you)....the less mystified you will be and the more in control of your situation you will become. This web sight has a lot of information outside of the forum itself and Melissa Orlov's book on the effect and impact that ADHD can have in a relationship would be my first place to start.
I can offer you a few things that I do know from my own experience with what you are describing and possibly where I could point you for guidance and counseling. I think this is really what both of you need to do together and counseling by a qualified therapist would also be the direction I would take instead of listening to me or anyone else about this because there is a lot to know and a lot of this gets pretty deep and confusing to do this on your own. Again....Melissa Orlov would be a good resource and her couples course that she offers on this sight is one I would recommend and have done myself. Since the material is paired with her books .....it can give you an in depth introduction to this by someone you can trust to have the answers you are looking for. If I might suggest starting with her books and familiarizing yourself with the very things you are experiencing.....I feel this is invaluable insight that you need to counter the effects this is having on you fo your sake...and it will give you a means to have some control of this yourself because what I fear from the sound of things....."trust and control" is a big topic for discussion that will lead you to understand what is happening with your husband on his end.
You are correct in one thing as you mentioned insecurity. Insecurity itself...is just the canary in the coal mine so to speak. The same as his anxiety and trying to fix the problem that way. The good news from the sound of things is that your husband is open or willing to talk about this and has shown interest in doing something about it by going to see a doctor. A regular medical Doctor will only try and medicate the symptoms like it sounds.....but they are not going to be approaching what is underneath the reasons for it and that's where I would turn to someone who knows more of the specifics of ADHD in relationship to treatment options...medication and yes therapy or counseling. You really can't effectively find any solutions to what you are having to deal with,....unless you take a more integrated approach which really requires participation and cooperation between the two of you to work together on this and not try and approach a pretty complicated interaction and series of interrelated relationships...within the relationship by trying to "fix it" from the top down...one symptom at a time. Again...this is discussed in detail in Melissa's books and someone like herself who is familiar with the specifics of ADHD is where I would turn for answers myself?
Aside from that and possibly offering you the one bit of insight that I do know about this speaking for myself only here as just one persons experience? Regardless of how this affects you and all the ways that you are feeling everything that is normal for you to feel right now....know from the start without questioning it for a minute...that what your husband is experiencing himself is a horrible feeling to have to live with. In fact...it's so bad and so consuming at times for him...it causes him to behave in the ways he does and the side effects of this are what you are experiencing yourself. I don't want to underscore the "effect" this has on you and what this does to you but you cannot "fix" this for your husband but you can do things on your end to help and make this better for both of you. There are things you can do yourself but it's good to know what you should do too and know what those are exactly? Again....deferring to a specialist who can do this for you would by my best choice but I can offer you at the very least...some resources to research yourself so you can get a better idea of what you a dealing with here to help narrow this down and give you a place to start? Knowing where to start and where to look is another BIG one when it comes to ADHD and for the person who has it. You may be in a better position to be a resource for help and support for you husband in some regards if you arm yourself with as much information as you can. This might be a role that would give you a leg up in gaining some control of this yourself. The first step of treatment anyway you look at it is education..... and knowing where to look and where to get the right answers is an important first step to take.
Here's a few resources that I think are really good ones to give you a head start for places to look for some answers. Just know...that you are not alone by any means and there are "real reasons" and "real solutions" to be found here but knowing which ones is where getting some help with this would be the first step I would take myself:
Dr Russel Barkley....you can find his video series on youtube
Jebb Kinnison.....https://jebkinnison.com/ I like the information he provides on "Insecure Attachment" style and "Attachment Theory" and how these come into play and where they originate in all of us to a certain degree. Some more than others which is where it starts to become a problem. Everyone has them and they are not unique to having ADHD although....a higher percentage of those with ADHD tend to have difficulty in this area with the "insecure ones" and therefore....can have difficulty in their relationships because of it.
The question you asked about this being typical with ADD might be answered here by saying....more "probable" and possibly "problematic" for those who have ADHD which gets into more of the specifics to ADHD and why that is. Having said that unrelated to ADHD itself.....this is more a side effect or something that is correlated to not necessarily caused directly by having ADHD in that....most likely, he got his ADD from somewhere and commonly one or both parents (along with possibly siblings too ) are the source for this. The generational effect of this and how that contributes to this insecurity issue is a pretty complex chain reaction and chain of events that is actually at the source of why this happens. Jeb Kinnisons web site I think does a good job of over viewing this and explaining this better than I can. It's a lot of information to absorb and a 3rd party who understands it will help do this for you. (again back to trained therapist) where you can ask questions to help narrow this down for you would be the only way to really know yourself.
If I'm going to stick my neck out here and give you one possibility to help narrow this down for you here based on myself and what I do recognize in this area? Look at "Anxious Preoccupied" as the insecure attachment style for you husband....and see if this doesn't line up with what you are seeing yourself. It may give you an indication that you are on the right track and put your mind at ease to know that there are thousands upon thousands of people out there just like yourself and your husband and you are definitely not alone here by any means.
If I were to give you one bit of advise in how to approach your husband despite the problems it creates for you? Is to know without question that he is suffering a great deal from these feelings inside him that he has little or no control of and nothing he"s doing is with any intention on his part to be mean or hurtful to you even if it feels that way sometimes. He is literally being driven by something inside him that he has very little control of and it's a scary place that comes with a lot of fear and anxiety and none of this is his fault. This fact that he cannot control it or find ways to overcome it by himself is in part where his own controlling behavior comes from with you. Without someone there to help him through it it's not something that is easily overcome alone or without someone there who knows about this and understand its.
If you can be an alley in his recovering from this instead of his adversary....you will be miles ahead of most couples who find themselves where you are and this will pay off big time dividends for you and your husband if you can find it in yourself to do this while looking for answers in how to deal with this yourself and the effects it has on you. Knowing that no matter and not matter how it might appear to you only......No matter how bad you feel about this.....he feels just as bad or worse due to the reason this exists in the first place. If you can keep that in the back of your mind at all times....it will remind you that none of this he is doing on purpose or to be hurtful to you. I'd lay money down on that much....and you can be rest assured...... just "know this" for yourself and take that for granted without having to ask him to tell you explain why that is. He can't and that's exactly why he has no control of it or even knows why he feels as he does. Once you figure this out yourself....you can....and you can do things that will make this go away by managing it.....instead using the controlling behaviors that are negatively affecting you to do this like he's doing with you now.
J
Thank you, J. You gave me a
Submitted by jsmith77 on
Thank you, J. You gave me a lot of useful information and seem to be right on target. Everything you said was absolutely true. I feel frustrated with him, and I waver between he can control himself and can he control himself? In his honest moments with me he will say, I am tired...I feel like my head is all over the place and I can't stop all the thinking. I think he wants the help, but he also wants an easy fix. I know he loves me, and I know he knows he's hurting me. He knew when he married me that I wasnt one to be ok with being a doormat, So that might be part of his anxiety, he's told me in his anxious moment he thinks I'll eventually leave him. I just don't know... I really appreciate the references you gave, and thank you for giving me some hope. Please keep in touch.
Thanks and One Thing to ADD to This
Submitted by kellyj on
Something you said that if I had to give one peice of advise or the "do's" or "don'ts" here that wil actually benefit you in the long run if you can do this....
"he's told me in his anxious moment he thinks I'll eventually leave him."
Try not and take this personally what so ever. It has nothing to do with you or that you've done anything to create this in him. This is a deep seated insecurity that stems from this "attachment style" problem I was mentioning. It was there long before you were a glimmer in your H's eye. If you look at this like it's just a symptom of something else...and not personalize it yourself......the best thing you can do on your end is to do the same thing with him. Don't personalize it to mean anything about him or how he would be without this there because it would be different in a positive way. This is not what he really believes or thinks on a cognitive level....but something inside of him is screaming at him that this will happen and he's afraid and full of anxiety that it will come to pass. This is a little voice that's in there telling him this...but he doesn't know where it's coming from or who's the one saying it to him. It is in his subconscious and there are many reasons for this....but if you can "give that voice some attention" and not make him feel embarrassed or feel ashamed because of it.....it will do wonders to help calm that voice and reduce the need to do this anymore for him. This voice fears rejection and being abandoned more than anything else ...and if you pay heed to what it's saying...it will tell you to do your best NOT to reject him because of it. That would be like dumping gasoline on an open flame if this is how you respond to it. That certainly won't help you or help make this stop I can guarantee it and it will only makes things worse for the both of you.
But again saying....you have some control of what you do with this more than he does in that respect and not being a doormat is a good thing. Doing that without rejecting him or pointing fingers at this "little voice" will either make it better or make it worse...depending on what you do with it I think? It has nothing to do with you no matter what he says to the contrary. He needs to figure this out for himself and where that voice is coming from but it's not anything to do with you or anything you've done. But what you do with it....will make a difference that much I'm sure of and avoiding "rejecting him" any way possible in the mean time will be passivizing this voice even if not doing anything to fix the problem?
It's not your problem in other words...but you do need to deal with it and what you do will have an effect either positively or negatively;)
Good luck with this....I think you are on the right track.
J
Great posts, J.
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Great posts, J.
Thank you. After he has had
Submitted by jsmith77 on
Thank you. After he has had quite some time to reflect (weeks sometimes), he eventually admits to me that it is him. That I'm a good day wife, and that sometimes he feels like he doesn't show his appreciation for me enough. Now when he is "in the moment", there is no getting him to see any of that.
Understanding and staying away from triggers....
Submitted by c ur self on
Try to not clutter you conversations with to much unnecessary things from the past....(You may see them as lesson's learned; it's evident he can't at this time) Try to recognize his triggers, and refrain from going there....Since you both have past's (like us all) and it's obvious he has some severe insecurities when he thinks on those things, or heres you talking about them....In this case he isn't hearing what you are saying; It's being reworded by his mind....By his insecurities...It can be healed with understanding and Love....
To many words can be worse than none at all many times....Especially when his insecurities has got his mind locked away from the ability to trust, or comprehend....He has got to find his own peace....There may not be much you can do to help that other than just being there, and loving him...
The enemy loves to use yesterday to destroy the gift and peace of today.....Some times a good councilor can help get on top of this Dysfunction before it goes to far in the wrong direction....
Blessing...
C
Two in There Talking......Triggers and the Little Voice
Submitted by kellyj on
C...you made a good point about not bringing up the past or even things that have been said. So much of my wife's inability to remember things or what's been said is that she can't keep track of herself. That "little voice" in there is doing a lot of talking and between the two of us....there's actually 3 people talking. And if we are talking about what someone else said...forget about it....now there's 4. lol 4 down to 2 is a quagmire to sort out and my wife gets so balled up in trying to say things sometimes she doesn't even really know what she's saying or the things that come out of her mouth. Calling her on any of this....is a trigger...no matter how confusing it is for me. Patience is a "virtue"....I keep telling myself that over and over!! lol
Here's an example that just happened after we had come back from our therapist. It's amazing how "selective" my wifes memory is and she can remember the things that registers with her (in her favor) and conveniently throws the rest out the window. It's not her doing this of course but her filters are many. She will filter and filter until all that is left is what you get. If you try and get her to talk about what she can't remember...she'll shut down.....bam. Conversation over. That's a trigger right there for my wife. I've said in jest...."I'm the decider"...and when it comes to starting a conversation and ending it.....she "decides."
In out T's office...we both got the "assignment" to do for the next couple of weeks. The assignment was for me to do a few things and I agreed for now that if the dogs Pee and I didn't do everything I could to prevent this...I will be the one cleaning and "fixing" the problem. The only caveat.....(ONE only ) that we all agreed upon and my T turned to me and asked me if I had any contingencies. My answer was...."NO CONTINGENCIES" ! . LOL Which means....I either "do it"...or "I don't"....but I want "no input what so ever" from my wife on....HOW...I do it. Period. Give me the task...and set me free. I will either "fail" or "I won't fail"....it's not that hard to figure out? But my wife...needs to let me "fail" and not get involved or put her 2 bits into it. Sounds simple right? ( lol )
So my wife comes home from work and finds that one of the dogs had pee'd (marked) on the bed (lower sheet and a little on the pillow case). These two dogs are "quick on the draw" let me tell you. I had walked into the bedroom to get something and one of them snuck in behind me. I walked back out and closed the door but by that time...it was too late (about 30 seconds is all it takes ). So she asks if I will take care of it and I say absolutely "yes. " I'll do it right now in fact."...and I proceed to take the sheet off and the pillow and pillow case and throw it in the washer. On the way to do this my wife says "I'm going to bed in 3 hours at 9:00pm...soooooooooo"
"I hear you....it'll be done by 9 as if it never happened...no problem!!" and I proceed on with what I was doing. I go out into the shop to finish what I was in the middle of (because she stopped me to ask about the sheets ) and since I dropped everything to make sure to cover this problem...I went back to doing what I should have been doing..and finishing the work I had left. So in an 1 1/2 later....I come in the put the sheets and pillow in the dryer and my wife already did it?? Like....what the???? And then she wants to "talk". "Uh oh"....I know what that means....this is not going to be good!! lol
So she starts out bring up what we talked about in our T's office and she say's...."is this you doing what you agreed on?" And I said. "yes...but it's kind of hard to follow through when you do it before I get a chance?"
She goes..."is this being "nice" and are you "speaking to me nicely"? (nice again...I have no idea what "nice" means to her but Okay..no need to debate about the word "nice".
So far...all I've done is come inside to finish doing my task with cleaning the sheets and put them in the dryer because now I've got 1 1/2 left before 9 o'clock and it takes 50 minutes for the dryer to dry this small load. And then I said "yes":...this is what I'm doing and I don't understand where you are going with this? Basically?
And then she starts in with how this is "not what envisioned" ...and how I was going to make her "suffer" and "worry" since I was not making this a "priority". And if I had...I would have done it like "this"....which she described all the ways I had done it wrong. And because I had done it wrong....she had to jump in and do it which is why she went and "did my job for me" before I got a chance?
And then she said....."and this is not what we agreed on in our T's office" as she felt I had NOT done what she "envisioned".
I stopped her right there and said a few things. I said "First....what you "envisioned" as I hear you...is what you "thought" this would be like? But I made it pretty clear and easy to understand..."exactly what this would be like and you were there when we said this?"
I said...."what was the main thing that I was so adamant about??? (mmmmm???? I didn't say the mmmm? part...I thought it lol )" you know..the part about "contingencies? That was the ONE and only ONE thing I asked for and the rest was up to you? As long as I have the "sheets and pillow/pillow case....on the bed and the bed made by 9:00pm....that's all that matters right? I was given a "task" and I was doing it...and you came along and did it before I could do it? How's that work?"
And she goes...."well....I guess I'll just have to do it because this is going no where and it will be easier to resent you than go through this?"
"WAIT. STOP. WAIT AND STOP!! LOL"
"let's get this straight? We agreed that I would do what ever had to do with something happening on my "watch" and I agreed but with ONE caveat...."no contingencies" and you'll just let me go and do it? Right?" She started going round and round again and saying the same things again.
And I replied..."What you envisioned...was a contingency right off the bat? So is you "worrying" and so is "me not making this "a priority". I have no idea what you are talking about in the "suffering" dept....but if you're saying that you are 'suffering' because this "worries" you that I "won't do it"...so now to end your "suffering" you needed to go jump in and "do it for me" before I even was finished working? And I still have 1 1/2 hr to go upstairs put the sheets in the dryer (for 50 minutes)...which leaves me 40 minutes to put them on the bed which only takes me 5? That's 35 min to spare right? More than enough time to do what I said and you wouldn't have had to do anything? That the point? So you don't have to do anything right? And now....you not only did it because I wasn't doing it the "way you wanted it"..."how you wanted it"...and "when you wanted it"...but I'm also not "nice" for doing this? And know you're changing what we agreed upon only yesterday and you saying...you're going to just do it and resent me? Is that right? What happened to "no contingencies"....that's about "6 contingencies" right there and there were a few more you threw in there I didn't count?"
And she said...."I don't want to talk about it...this is going no where?" ( "the decider"....she decides we need to talk...and then decides when we're done lol )
But I didn't leave it here this time because this was only yesterday that we agreed upon this in front of our T with him there to bring this all about and I was not about to "dismiss" that I can tell you! lol
So I "nicely" said "This thing you said about "envisioning" and this not being it? Isn't "envisioning" another way of saying..."what you imagined it would be like?" Take away.....every thing you "imagined" in your "imagination" and what have you got left? That's me doing exactly what I was doing...with no contigencies? Everything you "envisioned" and "imagined" ARE contingencies which was exactly why I brought this up and exactly why I made it so clear ....."NO Contingencies!! Remember what our T keeps saying to us...."don't make anything you do..."contingent" on anyone else? Right? That's what I was doing...and you came along and threw a whole bunch of "contingencies into it" but saying...I was doing it wrong????" How can that be??"
It took my wife about 1/2 hr....before this finally stuck. She had no idea what she was agreeing to and had no concept really..of what a contingency in the sense of just this one situation was? I was being so agreeable and doing exactly what I said....that this totally thew her off. With no way to complain about the dogs peeing on the sheets...she had nothing to say and nothing to complain about? So by doing this ahead of me...and saying I was doing it wrong...she could at least be pissed at somebody (again) since the dogs pee'd on the sheets (again).
There wer sooooo many triggers and sooo much confusion in her mind about this....I was lucky to get threw to her this time. But this happens all the time...and she has a habit of re-writing history...and re-writing it when she realizes that this is not what she "envisioned" when she made the agreement? LOL
There are "triiggers' and then three's "red flags". The "Red Flag" in this case...was the word "envisioned". That was my leg hold to gain entrance into her "imagination" ...as in "figment" of lol Which, I saw my opportunity there to avoid the "trigger" that was coming if I had not nipped that one in the bud.
"It's ALL in her head"...that's all I have to say...but this time...I let her figure that one out on her own without conflict and without getting angry or upset with her which I could have easily accused her of trying to go back on her word (only 24 hrs earlier? ) It's really exhausting having to do this each time we agree on something...but the alternative is worse...so...this is what I'm doing instead?
J
J, those pee-ful little dogs
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
....animals have their own things. And though they are conditioning the dickens out of you and your wife (you leave us behind, hein??? How do you like ziss??) the critters are animals... Who dont speak English. Good luck with them, the critters. Turn the consequences table on them somehow, although yes in their little Einstein minds they wont connect anyone blowing up at them hours later with their pee marking. And Lol they will not be affected by clean up efforts. Are they peeing to get attention, since it sounds like they're fouling you and your wife's nest, so to speak, on the sofa, not their own?. Leave your wife out of it, for the moment, what dynamic are the dogs keeping going? Good luck. And they are probably one of those smart breeds.
I have to tell you that I sympathize with you any time animals do whatever they do and then someone says that it's your fault. You cant let 'em run Born Free in the house, but nor can anyone control freak animals.
I generally have sympathy for your wife's difficult relation with her past, and unresolved pieces of her past affecting her and the two of you. I dont think it's easy for someone to go back, psychically, to the scene of the c ime or crimes in the past, and do the work of understanding what happened, using adult understanding, and then building different ways to do things. I really have my fingers crossed for her.
and to turn to something lighter, you talk d about two, three, four, voices in your wife's head? Very astute and hahahah that brought back memories of me driving home from a full day's contact with a lot of people, scenarios playing in my head of moments with people, and the voice of my old nemesis from childhood telling me I had completely blown it with everyone, that they were all judging me a loser. I was far enough along, though not free yet, that I would SHOUT at that harassing, judging voice from my childhood (with the car windows rolled up). SHUT UP. It would start harassing me again and I'd shout...loud.. In the car. SHUT UP. Rush hour drivers had to think that I was nuts. No it wasnt grown up. But I had gotten finally to a point that I wouldnt be treated like scum any more in that mental world that gets pumped into you, J, if you've been abused. I had finally gotten to the point that I'd fight back. Lol that was at least 3 voices going off simultaneously.
Nowadays, I dont have that voice in my head, and I dont spend very much mental time worrying what people think of me ...since I sure cant control that. It took a long time, and active inner work, J.
I dont know what she's going to do about it, but your descriptions of your wife sure sound to me like she's someone with a lot of pain in her from her earlier life
I do hope she "girls up" and gets involved with you in changing your doggies behavior, so that the dogs arent making the two of you unhappy with each other? They're little animals, but they ARE initiators in the pee thing. Can you put them in a utility room with a moppable floor, when you're gone? It would make the task you took on for yourself easier, and maybe they'd work it out that that sofa they've been using to get your attention (very effectively) was no longer available.
Wishing you all well
4 Seconds. The Attention Span of Dogs
Submitted by kellyj on
LOL Yes....yelling at your dogs after 4 seconds is worthless. They cannot remember or connect anything they did farther back than 4 seconds ago...to what is happening now. They totally...."live in the moment"...but there is something to be said about that too?
As you said about yourself..... " It took a long time, and active inner work.." Me too. It took a lot of thinking about things to finally get those voices out of my head. The part about not being very good at "fighting back" comes from this for myself This is what I'm working on...and it takes a long time to learn that too?
I think....being the voice of "reason" is what she did not have. If I can be that for her for a while....she'll have someone showing her how and me fighting back in a different way. Logic and reason are pretty hard to argue with as long as I can be "nice" about it and show her some compassion at the same time? The humility needs to get in there somehow too...as my T was pointing out to me?
whew!!! I've got my work cut out for me.....ya think? LOL
J
A out the last part of your post
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I do, I do think you've got a LOT going on there. Sounds like nothing to say it, but I'm really pulling for you both. You both keep showing up and dealing. You might indeed be right about a lot of your descriptions of your wife. You do attend, and think, and read. J, you know she has to find her own path forward. Not the one you see for her, the one she finds on her own. It's just part of it, you went through this yourself, finding your way forward to better for yourself. Not telling you what you dont know... But you men tend to want to FIX problems presented to you, you know. Anyway, what I'm getting from your posts is that you love her and want her. And you may very well be the the first person in her life who has been really there, with her, from dog peeing on the couch day to dog peeing on the couch day. I'm smiling as I write this. She's got to find her own path forward. I hope she does. She sounds like she's got a lot to her.
Funny NON
Submitted by kellyj on
The other day my wife asked me...."why do you Love me?"...kind of out of the blue and out of context just kind'a blurted this out. I know what she was thinking because of the problems we've had and we had just come back from our T.
I said."that's easy. These problems we have and all of this "stuff" is not important. What is important is the person you are on the inside....not all this "stuff" on the outside. What I love about you...is all there inside of you and I see it....all this "stuff" and all these "things" just get in the way of that sometimes but I never not see the person you are....these "things" don't define you."
And she said....."yes they do.....we are what we do."
That right there is my wife's issue. She believes this and I don't know how to get her to see otherwise sometimes. I'm a "Goldsmith" as one job I do. "Goldsmith" is not on my mailbox....and "Goldsmith" is not my last name. It's just ONE of many things I "do" but it's NOT "who I am".
Crap...if that were the case....my name would be "ADHD Goldsmith"....esquire....at your service! LOL
NOT!! lol For that matter...if I just wanted to make stuff up like that...I'd go as "BOND ....James Bond....shaken not stirred thank you very much. LOL
What do you think? Do you think I'd pass the audition? Thinking....not so much:)
J
As I read your post; you got me to thinking....
Submitted by c ur self on
(That right there is my wife's issue. She believes this and I don't know how to get her to see otherwise sometimes)
Has your T ever talked to you guy's concerning Facts vs perception of Facts....Much of my own pain hasn't necessarily come from the facts of how others live or feel....Most of my pain has come from my passing judgment or assuming my own perception to be factual... (end of story so to speak).... I can never be in their mind and heart....So, all I have is my perception of the facts....
Suffering doesn't come from the living of life; but, the thinking of thoughts; many times....
As you know; and I credit you w/ helping me in this....I've been in the process of redirecting my thoughts more toward self awareness and acceptance.......Acceptance that every person is important; every person has a reality. It's been the only way for me to start experiencing the healing I needed from my own self-righteousness....To me; I'm learning, it matters very little what I think about anyone else... it can have no positive effect, (more times than not it will have a negative impact) no matter how I feel or think concerning them....It's what I feel about me that can be beneficial and impactful....
I guess this is what our first counselor meant when in the first year of our marriage....He looked deep into the eye's of two controlling, independent, hurting people and said these wise words....DEAL WITH YOUR OWN STUFF....LOL....Some times we miss these truth's when they seem to simple....KISS....
Have a good one friend!...
C
Yes!!!! "DEAL" With It......"IT" (again) lol
Submitted by kellyj on
"He looked deep into the eye's of two controlling, independent, hurting people and said these wise words....DEAL WITH YOUR OWN STUFF....."
FUCKING ...."A" (EXCLAMATION POINT) ! (PERIOD) . (END OF STORY......THE END)
"Has your T ever talked to you guy's concerning Facts vs perception of Facts....Much of my own pain hasn't necessarily come from the facts of how others live or feel....Most of my "pain" has come from my "passing judgment" or "assuming" ......."my own perception to be factual..."
To answer your question C....not exactly. When I first went to see him almost 17 years ago....he did that with me. Now....he just gives me "the look" or goes....."I know you. I know you very well and I know what you do....you "rationalize" by "splain'in things"....as a way to try and "explain it away". That's your tendency but it's now just a habit from doing this all your life. The reason you did this is not there anymore...so the need to do this is not there either. You don't need to explain things anymore to try and explain why you do things or who you are where before....you needed to do this because there was so much left unexplained and left to your imagination as a means to do this."
I'm talking about all the ADHD symptoms, why they exist, and why they cause us to do what we do sometimes. It isn't "who we are"...or these "things" even related to anything other than having ADHD......but that's not why there's a problem. Why there is a problem is that other people "judged you" and "misinterpreted" what they saw and "told YOU.....who you were".....and you believed them with no other cause to doubt them based on what....."they said"...and ....."what you were TOLD"........."I am the decider and I decide "FOR YOU". I decide what's "right and wrong"...and "I TELL YOU".... what you are."
If you think about it C.....where does "Judgment".....come from in the first place? You were "told" at some point....what is "right" and what is "wrong" and you believed it to be true and never questioned it or thought any more past this right? But what if what you were told was "wrong"? If that's the case.....then what you "believe"...would also have to be wrong too wouldn't it. You can't have one without the other and the first one begats the other...not the other way around?
KISS.....keep it simple stupid. If you want to understand inside the mind of someone with ADHD....that's all you have to know. And once you know that....you can figure the rest out by yourself I think? Everything after just that much....is where this all comes from. Undoing that....and the "thousands of voices that were wrong" inside your head.....goes all the way back to the beginning. Right back to the "perception" and/or....."the personal opinion"...of the person ...or "person(s)"....who originally "Told you these "things". And with all those "other ones" out there who backed them up.
The problem is and was....."they were using "poor" judgment"......based on what they believed out of ignorance...and giving you their own "opinion" or "interpretation" of what these "things"....mean to them in a very "self righteous" by not including the part about just being their own personal interpretation or personal opinion......."they know....and now they're "Telling YOU".....THIS.... is what you are doing.....;and THIS is the reason why you do it.....AND!!!!!!....... "people" ( as in ALL people not just ME).......who do these "things".....are "bad and wrong."
Do YOU HEAR ME....PRIVATE PYLE!!! ( yes)
"I".... DIDN'T HEAR YOU???? DO YOU HEAR ME PRIVATE PYLE???????????" "YES GODDAMN IT. I HEARD YOU ALRIGHT!!!!"
And you wonder why it's almost a given....that people with ADHD can be so oppositional and defiant as they're first line of defense against this. Starting as young as you can ever remember because that much.....is a "fact"....that you know without questioning it for a minute. This is your experience growing up....everyday.....24/7.....until you either give up and just go with them and believe them....or....you go....."NO WAY. I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!!!" Which just ends up with confusion and "ambivalence" because on some level....you know they are right...and on some level ...you know they are wrong. The feeling of "ambivalence"...is telling you this and that's the only part in all of this...that is accurate. That feeling is trying to tell you something....but you don't even know "what" that feeling is? Let alone....what it means or what it's trying to tell you? But it's there all right...and it's a "painful" feeling to have to live with that everyday and not know what that is?
Until you know......"what that is"...and "what that's trying to say".....that feeling is something you have to live with....but the pain of "not knowing" is what you suffer from. How you "deal" with this feeling and what you do about it....has everything to do with "coping skills"...."resilience" and learning to "adapt and be flexible"...or it will just tear you apart inside or it won't. Those are all "coping and dealing skills" you learn...or you don't learn....."dependent on who you believe"... is right...and "who you believe is wrong"? If you "believe in yourself"....then you've got one set of problems and ways to manage them. If you believe "everyone else".....that's a whole 'nuther thing entirely.
"Dependent ON"......WHO YOU BELIEVE.....will "depend on"......how "dependent you become"...."ON"......what other people "say", "do", or "think".....about you?
So now C.....when my wife and I go in to counseling together...and here I am..knowing all of this and all the reason why, how, what, where and when....and I have all those answers and I know....who I am...and who I am not and I rely on myself for my own answers and pretty much take what others say with a grain of salt (sticks and stones).....it doesn't have that much affect on me....no matter what anyone says about me or not? It's not that I don't care....I care a great deal.....what I don't "care for"...is having other poeple tell me I'm wrong...where in this case....I KNOW I'm not....but I have no need to change the way other people think when I know they wrong and I know they just don't know all there is to know about this and all the reason why they are wrong.....only in their "judgments and opinion"....only. Because I know....that for them...it's from the same source of information I got....the same attitudes and opinions I got...and the same sources or information I got.....exactly.
And yet.....I'm not "ambivalent about anything anymore? I know what I know...and I know what I believe and I'm not unsure about it. And what I know for the most part that goes with "no pain" what so ever? Is that I really don't know "shit about nothing" for the most part and I don't assume or judge anyone else for not knowing "shit about noth'in" either?
And with that..;.there is no "pain" I'm experiencing along with it. I know I'm not stupid and I can take that to the bank. I can "think" my way out of most anything and can talk myself "into" almost anything...because I'm an expert in that department!! lol Once you realize just how full of shit you really are....it's pretty hard to take anyone else (who doesn't know shit either) very seriously or personalize it to mean anything really?
I don't assume to know...and therefore....I don't assume much of anything about anyone else once you get to that point in the process I think?
But now....what about my wife? Where is she in the process? I can tell you where...by what she says all the time and how it I interpret this and how it comes across to me?
"I hear ya" (dismissed) What was that again? "I".... DIDN'T HEAR YOU???? DO YOU HEAR ME PRIVATE PYLE???????????" "YES GODDAMN IT. I HEARD YOU ALRIGHT!!!!"
KISS....keep it simple stupid. lol
case in point..."talking pictures"....speak....a thousand words:) https://youtu.be/3j3_iPskjxk
J
Don't hold back on my account J..LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
As I was reading this; it brought a lot of light to my "WHY" questions...WHY have we been so unable to have a healthy attachment???....When a person is dragging around all the abuse and insecurities that have resulted from all the lies and abuse in their lives that you mentioned here....I would be an idiot (have been) to think it is going to just go away on it's on....
That just because we said I DO to each other that all those chains would just magically fall off....
Thanks J...For most of your post....And your Care!
C:)
Thanks C ...I've Never Been One
Submitted by kellyj on
to be at a loss for words. lol The truth isn't always pretty....but if you can laugh at yourself, I think that's half the battle. I must be doing well since I laugh at myself all the time!! LOL
I've said this on occasion but another truth I've found from experience. Sometimes doing nothing is the worst thing you can possibly do. Apply that as you will... with that grain of salt:) (along with the video...it's only there for illustrative purposes )
J
I'm not wired to do nothing.....
Submitted by c ur self on
But, even someone as hard headed as I am....Can eventually learn what isn't working.....
One step at a time.....
I've gotten much better at not being Co-dependent....not placing faulty expectations...learning acceptance....Today after reading your post; all the things I knew, and just wished would eventually go away, came rushing back into my mind...
All I'm thinking right now is empathy and patients....
And the BIG ONE....I control nothing, but, my Father does.....So continue steadfast in Prayer and Believing....
C
"Hard Headed" C....What You Talk About?? Ha!
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm a master in that dept.....stubborn??? OMG !!! lol One thing I've found that is not necessary an ADHD deficiency is patience. Honestly. impulsiveness can lead to impatience and a low frustration threshold (and an intolerance to waiting for anything right? ) which only goes to one place.....anger.
When I was young.....I was no different and I use to throw conniption fits like so many who you hear on the forum about reactive anger and a short fuse. I've also mentioned that I didn't end up this way later on and the only way I can explain this is just learning how to wait and I had a lot of practice I guess? I had to wait for everything it seemed being the low man on the totem pole in my family and I hated it with a passion!! OMG!! I would get so angry sometimes having to wait for rides...especially getting picked up somewhere especially after swim practices.
Since I swam everyday....so I also had to get a ride home afterwards. For years before the mothers got together and formed a car pool system...the person doing the ferrying was my mom and with two older sisters, grocery shopping and then me being at the end of line of errands and ferrying.....it was like waiting in the doctors office everyday for me. I remember sitting there on the bench outside of the pool and literally EVERYONE WAS GONE!! LOL When the coach (who is the last one to leave) asks if you need a ride and you go "no, she'll be here eventually) you knew there was more than meets the eye here? (ADHD??? lol ) The sun is going down and you're still sitting there waiting and it's getting cold and you're about to come unglued at the seams from getting so angry about this. My mom actually forgot about me a couple of times but only for a moment when she realized she had gone home after grocery shopping and forgot to pick me up on the way home and had to rush back out and get me. This was the norm as in....consistently inconsistent.
When it's all you know and you are dependent on someone like this to do what they say.....either you learn to deal or you don't...it's that simple? Patience....is learned and can be learned with someone who has ADHD too. If that wasn't the case....I wouldn't be able to do the work I do? Doing intricate precision work like setting diamonds or making jewelry takes a MOUNTAIN of patience because the one thing you can always count on is things going wrong. Guaranteed!! lol Thinking otherwise is fool hardy at the very least when it comes to things like this. If you need immediate gratification you'll be sorely disappointed that's all I can say.
But like I said....I didn't start out that way.....I learned how and it is a skill. Patience is a virtue and must be earned no matter what. No free lunch in that department ADHD or not? Better to look really hard at that immediate gratification and modify that "NEED" a little to....."it'd be nice but WTH.....it won't kill you."
If you look at that at what I just said about having to wait because of ADHD in my mother and family other family members....I really think this is where it gets to be a problem for everyone else when they get in a relationship with us and my T has mentioned this many times to me in saying " you didn't start out that way....you became that way from experience and the environment you grew up in." Which comes right back to adapting and changing and whether you learn to do this or not.
So if that's true....you can learn. Having ADHD doesn't mean you can't..... and if I can do it....so can you! ( are you frick'in kidding me??? lol ) I think the only problem with this for other people comes form the fact that you are so use to this and learn not to make a big deal about waiting for all the known ADHD related reasons there are....that those of us who have it, don't immediately / automatically (or sometimes never?? lol ) realize this is not the norm for everyone and then try and defend and rationalize their own behavior by trying to say...:"most other people are like this". This is where my wife is too. She says that within her sentences all the time "everyone..or most....people....women...etc...etc....etc....." are like this or do it too?
"YES!! Just not so often and not so much!!!" I really found this to be true when I got together with her extended family. They were completely unaware and oblivious to the fact that some of the things they did....were causing my heart rate to RISE RAPIDLY!!! LOL And I'm the one with ADHD here.....remember? I think now.....that there's a whole lot of familial denial going on in that family and my wife...is not the only one suspect here?? LOL Democracy by default....rules I think? And being at the bottom of the totem pole in that respect...has it's own set of rules you learn by experience the hard way. Learning things the "hard way" is something you get use to I guess? Along with everything else. I really do think this is as much a problem or more ...when it comes to why we don't always realize that this is not the norm for everyone else even if it is for us? Patience!! It's a good skill to have in your back pocket and be very skilled at!!! LOL
That thing I do that says "what the Hell....it won't kill me" is a rationalization....but not all rationalizations are a bad thing. Learning to rationalize in respect to denial is not a good thing for anyone including if you have ADHD for all "good" reasons there are not to do this. But what I've also found that all of those adaptive strategies and even the mal adaptive ones are skills....regardless of whether they are "good" for you.....or "bad" for you?
Learning to use what you got in a different way can turn a bad thing into a good one if you apply it differently. Working within your strengths is key to success and if stubborn and hard headedness (strong willed) is not working for you....make it so, by taking the same thing and doing it differently. No need to re-invent the wheel and go against the grain? Swimming down stream is a Hell of lot easier than going against the current? Know what I mean?
Funny quick story that just happened the other day. My wife was complaining about having to wait in long lines for women's toilets at public events. Nothing new there right? (she also has a really small bladder which makes this worse ) But then she goes on to say that she thinks the majority should rule here? That since there are more women than men in the world....that they should make all public rest rooms co-ed with stalls only so it would be more "fair" to women and women wouldn't have to wait so long since the men's lines to the rest rooms are historically shorter? And as she said this...she included that "this would be better for everyone."
I said...."well that would kind of defeat the reason why men's lines are shorter? Since men can just pull up to a urinal and "get her done" quickly...."in and out" and on your way??...This would just slow everyone down and now everyone would have to wait longer? Making men use stalls when they have no need to do this would actually be possibly making it better for women only (maybe?? thinking not so much but??) but you'd be actually slowing men down and making them wait instead? How does that work for everyone?"
And her answer to this was "well ...the majority should rule here?" LOL This is how she problem solves? "Fariness", "democracy" and "O" sum thinking? In her mind....men have it better so therefore they should have it less better as the answer....and that would make it better for women and this would be a good thing for everyone?? lol In the case of "urinals" or "no urinals".....I think the logic is starting to deteriorate rather quickly here??? The next thing you know....men would be required to "pee sitting down" because it's not fair that men can do this standing up?? LOL!!!!
How about...."you've got a really small bladder and because of that...it's just not fair to you?? Did you ever consider that?" No she didn't...because this is how her family problem solves too with her mother as the ring leader here? "If it's not good for me...it can't be good for anyone." lol
This drives me batty sometimes!! Patience...patience...patience.....!!!!
J
I understand completely J
Submitted by c ur self on
(impulsiveness can lead to impatience and a low frustration threshold (and an intolerance to waiting for anything right? ) which only goes to one place.....anger.)
You are banging on the door of conflict with this truth...As a matter of fact you knocked it down....When two people have this tendency it is terrible!!! LOL....Two fast minds trying to make decisions peacefully and patiently; is an experience in futility....
If one happen's to be more aware (in the moment) and can actually tie the top of the bag before the second cat is dropped in, sometimes you can work through it; if this call for patients you are speaking of can be recognized in time....
I have to be self aware of this especially in high probability situations where people, places and things are more paramount to either of us....If unity is not the top dish on the menu vs I know what is good for us...Which most times really shakes out to selfishness anyway....Conflict is way up there in percent of probability....
C
Sneaky Little Devils
Submitted by kellyj on
NON....the dogs are marking their territory. They do this when you're not looking. They know they're not suppose to do this...so they do it when you are not around. Attention from me has little to do with this but only in part. They get plenty of attention....what I just read recently...is that they need to "trained" as in.....constant "training" and consistent attention in that way. I just read this in an effort to find more ways around this but what it said was..."dog's love to please. And making them "sit"...is actually something they Love to do. They Love to please you so when they get a specific order to do something....this makes them feel great to do it and then be rewarded for it. That's the kind of attention that will lesson their desire to mark? Interesting huh? They need to feel successful at pleasing you and then getting rewarded when they do?
How can I say....I'm any different here? It's because I can't:)
J
I am not a dog whisperer.
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I am not a dog whisperer. Maybe we have some on the site who can chime in with better advice. But if the sofa is the source of marital pain at the moment, remove the sofa from their pee range lol. You wont mess up their doggie psychology...lol just give them different pee options
I have all kinds of respect for proper, animal appropriate care of animals, J. so yes, I get marking and territory. I had a pair of cats and the male was very territorial, too. But yours in their doggie mental world, they locked onto that sofa...why I dont know, maybe because you and your wife sit on it and they can smell that, and used that as the billboard to do the marking on. So, why not get them out of range of the sofa when you're gone? Little devils is right... i'. Sure that they're your love bugs. I have a friend, sort of classically male, who is. bonkers over his pugs. He'd die if he thought they were upset. Though his problems more have to do with the coyotes not getting the pugs. Wishing you well. It is stress in the home if the animals are dealing with something
I Already Know the Answer
Submitted by kellyj on
I know what the answer is here....but that's not going to work. Yes....they pee where my wife goes or sits. Same as the bed. Anywhere where her sent is...is where they pee but not where I sit, sleep or inhabit. It's because they think "they're the boss of my wife" and they are marking "over her". The dog trainer told us this but in order to correct this...my wife is the one who has to establish she's "the boss"...I can't do that for her and she's not a dog whisperer either. If you want to talk to dogs....you gotta "talk the talk" that they understand. They don't understand....."human talk" and that's the problem. You have to speak their lingo and that's not something my wife has any interest in learning how to do and like I said.....I can't "establish she's the boss" for her. She has to do this for herself with the dogs or they'll keep doing this.
On the other hand....I'm blocking their access to these places but I still have to go there myself. If I'm not watching them like a hawk every second....they'll sneak up behind you when you're not looking and they are very good at doing this let me tell you. lol
Remember the Far Side comic....about what "Ginger" (the dog) actually hears?
"blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Ginger, blah, blah,blah,blah Ginger, blah blah blah blah blah, Ginger....." lol
While the owner is saying. "OMG!! look at what you did Ginger.......You know you aren't suppose to pee on the couch Ginger. What have I told you before Ginger.........."
It's why this way...doesn't work! LOL
J
I love that Ginger cartoon
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Have you seen the version of it, what cats hear?
"blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah"
: ). Good luck.
Duplicate
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
.
wow!
Submitted by jsmith77 on
I can definitely relate to some of this. As far as, the envision that is had. It is just very frustrating. Patience for needless arguing is not my strong suit. Definitely something to pray about.