I have been married 20 years to my ADHD husband and I had no idea our struggles were due to ADHD! I just thought he was selfish and inattentive.. I just didn't know enough to know they were different types... I recognize us in every single ADHD section of the book... I went through all emotions reading the book, but mostly relived since I have dealt with constant scrutiny that there is something wrong with me and was considering taking anxiety medication in order to stay married.... Sure I have turned into that nagging, untrusting wife .. always reminding and following up on every aspect of our life, kids, finances etc because 80% of the time they doesn't get done unless I do them myself. I'm not exaggerating when I say It takes at least 7 reminders for him to get anything that needs to get done.. so I have learnt not to rely on him and just handle them.
My husband does not think this is ADHD and he thinks every marriage has the same issues.. procrastination.. money issues, attention issues, fighting about chores, and taking care of everything for the kids etc.. He thinks I'm just too efficient and type A and he is a relaxed guy and that is all there is.. He does admit he had a lot of troubles focusing in school and does hyper focus on some things (playing video games, watching Netflix, etc till 2 am when he needs to be at work the next day ..but he thinks this is how everyone else lives and I need to relax..
My 16 year old son was just diagnosed with ADHD and while I was filling out the questionnaires for him I realized my husband has every sign symptom listed to the highest degree and I picked up this book to read which reaffirmed everything we have been going through..
So my question is.. do you think most marriage struggles with what is the book regardless of a partner having ADHD?
Sara.
Ditto.
Submitted by Ohlooksquirrel on
Hi Sara,
My story is so similar it's uncanny. I'm also new to the site and I just ordered the book so I don't have much to add - just wanted to give a big "ditto" to what you described. I don't believe this is in any way typical of non-ADHD marriages. Happy to talk/lend an ear if you ever need it.
You asked if most marriages
Submitted by LRHG on
You asked if most marriages suffer from what is in the book. No, I really don't think so. I have had 2 serious relationships before this one. Things that my expartners said were going to get done , got done. Finances were in order. Chores were split. In short, the households ere run very efficiently and contributed to by both parties. There was no need to discuss things - they just got done. I can't believe how hard this is.
Most marriages
Submitted by bluesky on
Thanks for sharing the info. I was wondering the same thing as the original poster. This is my second marriage to a person with ADHD. When my first marriage fell apart, people would ask what went wrong and I honestly could not explain. I could describe some things that are in the book, but people would look at me funny. Then I met my husband, same problems. It was not until another member of the household got diagnosed that the light bulb went on. Your post puts some perspective on the matter.
Aren't we all like this?
Submitted by Jon on
You know. I think with all the non ADHD spouse here all desperately looking for magic bullet answers, it is easy to lose track of the fact that while ADHD is a part of us, but it is not the defining part of who we are as people. It CAN be, IF we let it, and IF our partners make it so. But really if you only focus on the ADHD, then you miss the person underneath, and I think that is as much a problem as ignoring the ADHD altogether. MANY of the issues described, are the result of existing in a world with a lifetime of acute awareness of feeling like a square peg in round hole. Here is a thing to ask your husband; He may not have been aware that he had ADHD but ask him this. When he was young, growing up and now. Did he or Does he see himself as "different" to those around him? I see and hear this as a nearly completely pervasive sense among ADHD types. The sense of 'other than' , feeling excluded and judged constantly for not seeing or missing what to everyone else is just the everyday normal. So from my earliest memories, I am aware of that thought. I am not like you, I will never be like you, like those around me that are going to judge me defective, less human, of less value because the person we were born failed to be as designed or expected. No amount of pills, no amount of doctors, no amount of talking and no amount of effort is going to magically transform me into the 'standard model' that this society deems appropriate to exist and seek happiness. Society, our schooling system and even web sites like this serve to mainstream that which is easy, most convenient and most efficient while denigrating, criticizing, and devaluing that which is 'difficult'. In school those of us that are dreamers and therefore self-maintained and little trouble are left to be bored and stare out the window, missing out on an education. Those of us that are hyper get isolated, chastised and removed. Either way the lesson is that you deserve isolation and that you are different and deserve to suffer because of it.
You know I am prone to ALL of the things you describe, other than being unemployed. I more or less always held down a job, but even there those jobs have always needed to be provide insane levels of stress and challenge in order for me to stay focused. Otherwise I am bored and miserable. Not just a little miserable, as in black as black.
I don't know how you drag an ADHD person back to those things you need them for, but I can say about the ONLY possible strategy is through a system of reward and stimulation.
I know that sounds like training a child, but remember 2 things are all powerful motivators to a typical ADHD mind. : *strong* stimulus and feeling like you fit. So we don't do dull routine stuff because boredom is living hell and when bored focus is impossible. Any task I do in this state follows no methodical order. It’s random, out of order and mostly half baked. I have to work.as in focus like 100% to get it done. So what seems like routine to you, requires me to focus like you would driving in frequently merging traffic. Focus on stimulating activity? Easy, on routine? Probably the most difficult thing I have to do *in my entire life*. It sounds absurd I know, but it’s true. I’m an engineer working in tech. I have to design and implement complex and detailed ideas, I find that *vastly* easier than keeping my house tidy or remembering the chores I should have done. It’s much easier for me to draft out a complex challenging schematic than it is to remember to do my weekly timesheets for instance.
I can’t say I am entirely enamored by much of the way society treats those of us with ADHD. I think you will find a great many of us have evolved to totally lack trust for everyone else and to doubt their intentions as anything other than self-serving. I know through a lifetime of experience in general that you all just want to mold and shape me so that you can extract whatever it is you think is useful to you with the minimum of effort and discard the rest. I also know that whatever happens to me in the meantime is of little consequence and virtually every post on this forum seems to indicate this is the case. ADHD people to the rest of the world are fun and exciting and great as long as they show no indication of being an ADHD personality when it gets ‘serious’.
None of this may help you, but it does seem to me that the same questions are asked frequently so as an ADHD person, I would at least put in my 2 cents. We cannot be changed by force nor emotion blackmail or deprivation, but ONLY through encouragement and a sense of feeling of intrinsic value. Nobody wants to play nice, let alone be focused on the details when they loath and resent what/who they were born every hour of every day.
Cheers,
Jon
ADHD partner
Submitted by bluesky on
Jon,
I really do appreciate your post. To be honest, I don't understand some of it, but I do appreciate hearing it from your point of view.
Much of what you have said in your post...
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I have heard from my boyfriend.
He felt "different" as a child. He was abused by his stepfather for years. He was beaten regularly, and verbally/emotionally abused.
He has two ex wives who "saw so much potential" in him, and wanted to mold and shape him into what they wanted in a spouse.
I find it interesting that a
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I find it interesting that a lot of people with ADHD think that they are the ONLY ones who feel different from everyone else and the ONLY ones who are lacking in self-esteem. Sorry, but lots of people feel like this about themselves, and I, for one, don't use it as an excuse for my less-than-positive behaviors nor do I blame other people, neurotypical or not, for my behaviors.
So without blowing my top
Submitted by Jon on
So without blowing my top completely all I can say is that I don't recall ever saying that. But I certainly recall MANY non ADHD people saying what you have said, with mind numbingly monotonous regularity.
If you think all this is just an 'excuse' and if you spend your time comparing your spouse unfavorably to 'others' then I suggest perhaps you release your ADHD partner and yourself from torment because you will only ever make it worse. A life time of such comments and unfavorable comparisons by uniformed normies is the very reason for low self esteem. If you are determined to see the problems as inherent character flaws or laziness then there is simply no point in trying to make it work. It won't. You can't fix it with a big stick or by shaming a person into submission I am afraid.
Did he or Does he see
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Actually, I was paraphrasing you: "Did he or Does he see himself as "different" to those around him? I see and hear this as a nearly completely pervasive sense among ADHD types. The sense of 'other than' , feeling excluded and judged constantly for not seeing or missing what to everyone else is just the everyday normal. So from my earliest memories, I am aware of that thought. I am not like you, I will never be like you, like those around me that are going to judge me defective, less human, of less value because the person we were born failed to be as designed or expected."
I'm no longer married. My now ex-husband left me, I think because I wasn't fun to be around anymore. Hmm, interesting, too, that that happens to non-ADHD spouses.
Yes, but the inference or
Submitted by Jon on
Yes, but the inference or accusation that it's all just an excuse is both extremely frustrating AND highly insulting. There is no faster way to push someone with ADHD away, of that I can absolutely assure you. And it's pervasive because it is almost "universally' experienced by those with ADHD. That in no way need detract from any other condition that may also exhibit similar effects. Nor does it demean or lessen any angst for anyone else who may feel similar for whatever reason. It simply makes it a cardinal experience for those of us with ADHD. There is no point in hating on ADHD or those who have it, or express their experience with it, especially not now I would have thought?
Jon, thanks for posting
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Jon, thank you for writing your point of view on this. I would hope more folks with ADHD would write in, such as you, because each one gives more insight for us to learn from, and to hear their perspectives on things, as well as what may have happened in their lives.
I wanted to give you a different perspective on some of us whose spouses have it, but have either refused treatment (or minimal treatment) or stayed in denial of how it affects our relationships, as well as how we as non-ADHD-ers, have re-acted in negative ways until we've learned how to engage in better ways. We are all in different stages of development, and growth in this journey, and we all need continued help in this, and that's why most of us are here.
If you happen to read some "gripe" posts on here, I hope you don't take it personally. This happens to be a safe place where sometimes we can just "vent" our frustration, because it gives us a "safe" place to do so, without having to unload on relatives or friends who maybe tired of listening, plus we get feedback from others AND from Melissa (the professional) who interjects things when needed, or when she feels we need more guidance and help on an issue.
I've been with my husband now for 34 years, and it's been difficult. I lost who " I WAS as a person", and I left him last year, and just returned to our home to try to get many things in order. He wants us to "get back together", and is definitely trying things he's never done before. (which is encouraging) We have an awful lot to get through. He had a long term affair, then last year told me he was still "in love' with his first girlfriend from college, and was not in love with me. etc, etc. Now, he says, he was just "messed up", and he's sorry he did that as well as everything else. But, the many lies, and betrayals as well as the "severe" level of ADHD he has, is daunting. I also believe he has Oppositional Defiance Disorder, which Dr.Russell Barkley says almost always goes along with ADHD right from the start. I LOVE listening to his videos on YouTube. He is SO INFORMATIVE, because he describes the physical, mental, and psychological workings of the ADHD brain, then talks about behavior, upbringing, relationships, and pretty much everything. He speak to EVERYONE, not just those with ADHD, and I love that.
Anyway, I'm sorry that over the course of your life, you've had such negative experiences, with the ADHD, and people's expectations of you, which haven't been fair. I know I'd love to hear if you're married, if you have children, etc. I enjoyed the stories of your work experiences, and can tell you got positive feedback from your "accomplishments' at work, and that's a good thing. My husband has quite a few good experiences, but he had a very hard time enjoying them, because he was always thinking about the "what's next"? But, his current job is straining him to the maximum, and he almost can't take it any longer, but since it's our ONLY income, he needs to stay there, which he knows, but it makes him very unhappy. He chose this job, and fought me to take it, when I saw many red flags concerning the entire thing. It's almost bankrupted us again, which has him depressed, but at 61, I don't think many places are going to take someone at his age.
Anyway, just checking with you, and saying HI....WELCOME, and please, please post again. LOVE to hear more from you.
The problem with labeling.....
Submitted by c ur self on
(There is no point in hating on ADHD or those who have it, or express their experience with it)
This statement is a fair statement in my opinion...It's also a statement that is very misunderstood based on what I've experienced and read on this web site...If I'm just a terrible person (bad habits and no morals) that just happens to have adhd...Guess what the people trying to live in harmony w/ me is going to target most of the time?? That's right my label....
And if you are a terrible person who just happen's to have adhd...When you get caught w/ your pants down....What is going to be the first excuse you drag out of the bag??
So...labeling is not good....ADHD don't make us Sinners...It doesn't cause us to not be very good life mates....Responsible Accountable adults or just that Adhd or not...
C
Jon
Submitted by kellyj on
If you take a moment, and read my last comment below, it gives you a pretty good idea, of the world I grew up in. Even if you take out the little additional descriptions that I included just to illustrate this better for anyone reading it, as I went back over it myself just reading my own story, back to myself....there really doesn't seem to be that much wrong with it? In fact, if I read the comments made in this thread, including yours and your reposnes, I don't really see anything wrong with what you are saying either, only...the comments that followed ranged from:
".I really do appreciate your post. To be honest, I don't understand some of it, but I do appreciate hearing it from your point of view." That was a pretty honest response that Sunymirage made to you. She even said ( to be honest ) which was her speaking openly about your comment and saying she appreciated hearing it, from your point of view. Now, in my past esecially....I would have heard the first part of what she said, which there is nothing there take persoanlly or be offended by at all? "
"I really do appreciate your post. To be honest, I don't understand some of it, but I do appreciate hearing it" What's wrong with that? Nothing as far as I can tell? She is simply saying she didn't understand some of it? Right? But there was that clause she put on the end of it that said...." from your point of view " That's a curious thing to include to her original statement? It really doesn't connect with the statement itself? If you were having a conversation with someone, and it was going along smoothly and someone said, "I don't understand some of what you said" How would you or anyone respond to that? Don't think about it too long, it's not that difficult? How would you or anyone respond to that comment?
Now take that last clause she included and take a good hard look at that part. "From your point of view"
And now, take a look at what "oh,look squirrel" said "My story is so similar it's uncanny. I'm also new to the site and I just ordered the book so I don't have much to add - just wanted to give a big "ditto" to what you described. I don't believe this is in any way typical of non-ADHD marriages. Happy to talk/lend an ear if you ever need it." Nothing wrong with that is there? She's just saying that this story sounds very familiar and similar ( big ditto ) as she said? What's wrong about that? Nothing as far as I can tell? In fact, she even said "Happy to talk/lend an ear if you ever need it" Nothing wrong with that, that was a nice thing to say and offer. A very generous thing to do? What's wrong with that?
***(BUT)*** there was this part thrown in there. "I don't beleive this is in any way typical of non-ADHD marriages." That's curious? Why we she throw that in there? How does that connect with...I am happy to help and lend an ear if you ever need it and my story is so similar? How does her opinion and what she believes, get thrown in there with it sounds similar and I'm happy to be of service to you? ( as I interpreted her in what she said? ) What is she trying to say here and who is she talking to? Oh, she's talking to the original poster and making comment on that? Actually, as I hear her...the comment was her opinion about what she doesn't beleive..and the rest was just her stating that she recognized a similar story and she would be happy to be of service to the poster? Is there anything wrong with that? I guess it would depend on which side you were on? If there are two sides here? MMM? What are these two sides and what does that convey? Sound almost like an adversarial ir controversial? Like there is a conflict in these two opposing ideas or statements? Like she is talking about two type of conversations and there really are two sides here? Why are there two sides, not one? Aren't we all just people talking to each other? What's different here and what's the same? It's all the same to me????? What's the problem with that one ( part ) that was sandwiched in between the other two parts? Why is that (part) there? Where does that ( part ) really belong and what does it serve to say it? Does it really make sense to add that (part) in there and then have to connect it with the other two parts that seem to go together and fit together....but that middle (part) seems odd and out of place? It doesn't make sense to the other two parts? What is she really trying to say here???? It seems very unclear as I read it taking it at face value? In fact....it would require me to interpret...and try and understand why it's there? If I just read that comment out of context to everything else...I'd say that was not being open or very upfront or honest in her commication and actually saying what she really means? Like something is missing???
And then poison ivy made her comment to you. I've hear poison ivy talk at length about her entire marriage and how it failed. I've talk to her enough to know what her story is and I know she is pretty bitter and has been through a lot. She is dealing with the aftermath and the regret and resentment and she is in a place of having to process all those emotions and grieving her loss. She is not necessarily in a good place and I've been there before and I know how she feels. In fact, I personally recognize the place she is in so I know from experience what that is like for her. I have lived...in her shoes in my past..and I can empathize with how she feels? I don't need to ask or question it.....I KNOW.
***BUT**** "I find it interesting that a lot of people with ADHD think that they are the ONLY ones who feel different from everyone else and the ONLY ones who are lacking in self-esteem. Sorry, but lots of people feel like this about themselves, and I, for one, don't use it as an excuse for my less-than-positive behaviors nor do I blame other people, neurotypical or not, for my behaviors."
Takes one to know one? I know what she is saying and I also know me....when I say things like that? And when I say things like that...I am expressing "contempt". Done deal there, I know it when I see it? In fact...just the other day..."making comment" on a post on FaceBook...about an aritcle posted about some things that were said by the Republicans and the health care proposed Bill they are trying to sell, but beyond that, and directly related to these ( I don't know what they are exactly...but I'm pretty sure I know what they are...but regardless...they are "GIGANTIC UN-TRUTHS". Notice, I am not calling them lies? Just because something is not true, doesn't mean the other person is lying? Especially if they believe it is true?
What I said in my comment to Sara......I was being completely up front and honest when I said this part: "Then you would be wrong. Dead wrong...and in my mind as I hear someone like this...I dismiss them immediately. Dismissed! Nothing they say after that, is relevant to me what so ever and I can forgive them easily....I just don't value anything they say since I know they are wrong, but it;s simply not my place to make them believe anything. and Frankly....I don't care what they think? And I certainly don't give them any credence what so ever? They can call me any name or label in the book...it means nothing to me..and I give no weight to anything they say and dismiss it just as fast...like water off my back? That is...when they start making their personal problem my personal problem..then I will have something to say but only then. My problem is ADHD and all that goes with it. Their problem...is not believing that it's real? That ain't my problem, I don;t own that one. My problem, that I do own...is ADHD and all that goes with it?"
And ALL that goes with it? That includes how it negatively effects others too. ALL OF IT...not just the parts, that negatively effect me? I have to own what I do to others, in effect...in the same way it effects me too? That all my business...and no one esles in an isolated way? If I am only talking about me, what I do, what I want, and what I want to be....then that does not extend to others in any way shape or form? Others are only included as a consideration, in that...I have to consider if my actions will have the effect........... "I want"...but also consider how that will effect others..."if " I do that action what ever it is? Both, at the same time. I have to ask myself constantly "what if"...and then answer that question for myself? And if I know I'm doing that well, and I have made in errors in my judgment, and I have considered all sides and both sides equally...then when I proceed with my action...I will know it was the right one before I do it? And then, and only then, after I do it and perform it as I should.....then if someone gets in my face, and starts making ( what ever personal problem they have with me ) and I know for a fact that they are wrong.....I don't care? Why should I? Why should I give any wieght or credence to what they say If I am walking down the street and some crazy street person who is yelling at building...spots me and makes eye contact and makes a Bee line for me and gets in my face...spitting and spewing and ranting a bunch of none sense...that he just put a down payment on the section of side walk I'm standing on ( in a downtown public street ) and is telling I need to get off his property? After I just witnessed this person yelling at the side of a building as if...the building could hear him and the building did something wrong? apparently?? ( who knows...and do I care??? NO!! LOL ) But now they are in my face...spitting as they rant and I'm getting spit all over me at the same time they have "wild eye" like a horse who is about to bolt?? Clearly, I have done nothing wrong and clearly....niether have they yet? They have done nothing wrong yet.....BUT.....I have a strong impression made from what I just saw...that if this person was angry at a building...then I'm actually a much more logical choice as a person to person confrontation if now they are standing in front of me! LOL I haven't done anything...but I recognized I am in an potentially "adversarial relationship". Not yet...but could be soon!!! LOL Pretty sure....kind of sure....not exactly sure.....but most likely sure!!!! I have no idea...what this person might do? But I know enough....not to want any!! LOL Do I get in an argument with this person? Would that be the wisest things to do? Or would I just be asking for it, if I were to become agitated, and defensive and start joining him in what ever hallucination he is having? Obviously....his reality...is not mine and I don't want to be in his but I was given no choice. The one thing...that I know for sure...is this person was having an argument with building....and that's all I know!! LOL I took that from a real life experience so I didn't just make that up. But in my real life experience....I saw that one coming and I avoided it by walking across the street to the other side of the side walk and avoided looking at him? I have alos witnessed, the other scenario too on a public bus once..and it didn't go well for the person who challenges this other guy who was yelling and having an argument with his imaginary friend? And somebody, took it themselves on the behalf of everyone on the bus...to confront this gentleman in the course of this heated debate he was having? And the guy hit this do-gooder in the head so hard it knocked to the ground and then other people had to jump in and hold both of these men back from killing each other!!! LOL The problem was in that case...that everyone in the bus knew what was happening. How could you not?LOL And everyone was ignoring this guy and kept looking forward instead. It was the do-gooder...who caused the problem. He got involved and took it upon himself...to be the boy scout and get in this guys face and it was clear to everyone on the bus...that this was last person you would want to approach and say "excuse me, but you are irritating me " LOL Actually, he wasn't even quite so polite. I think ( if I remember ...this man in a suit and tie with breif case ) got in this guys face and said."hey, knock it off "LOL WELL??? What did he expect??? LOL
The point of me saying this...was it was none of my bussiness. Was this guy hurting me? NO. What he annoying? Yes. Did I need to just live with it and get over my annoyance? Yes. Was this crazy person ..doing anything wrong? NO. Not legally speaking. He was just a bit un-hinged and he was making every a little nervous? Me too....but I knew better. That's the point. And for what ever reason....Mr Boy Scout...that he knew better too? Obviously, he made a mistake. But his mistake, now created what I'm calling ( excuse me ) a cluster Fuck...or chain reaction that involve half the bus. And the bus driver had to pull over, and then call the cops and everyone in the bus now, was delayed . And who do you think, everyone was mad at? It wasn't the crazy person...I can tell you that much? I saw this coming...like before it happened. And I went "uh oh....this isn't going to be good" And it wasn't good and played out just like I thought it would? Why? Because, I had a lot of experience with situations like this in my past when I worked as a bouncer at rock concerts. In fact....I had been attacked myself, in exactly the same way. That's how I knew possibly better than anyone else in the bus...but, no one esle did anything either...including me, and they didn't have to know what I knew...to know to ignore person and just leave them be. That's the point.
But now, in my comment about someone like this, that I have no control over and I see it coming..and it going to affect me negatively and I have no escape from it and I know what will happen to me? I'm trapped. Now I have to make a decision.( just like I did when I approached deranged people at rock concerts who were doing something wrong ) That was my job, in other words and when push comes to shovel....being nice will get you no where.
So in respect to my comment on FaceBook ( with intention for sight ) I know what the problem is..and I can see it coming too. And when I hear excuses, rationalziing and utter none sense as a justification to in essense ( to hurt me and others )...now, as I said...."unless they are in my face and making their problem my problem......then I will have something to say? In in reference our government leaders ...who's job is to consider everyone and all the pros and cons and weigh them against the good for all people...or the good for the few.....when I see them doing the ...:"good for the few" routine..and saying utter non sense as they're reasoning for this....I kind of feel it's my civic duty to speak up and not be silent. Public opinion does, carry some weight as far as the decisions the politicians make that effect us....plus...silence is not golden...when it comes to having a voice and expressing your opinions on the job our government leaders are doing? It is the only feedback they truly have. And we are powerless to do anything other than to voice our disagreement...or voice our opinion in the negative when that is their job? If they are doing a bad job....at their job....and that is effecting me negatively...it is appropriate to at least put your two bits into the hat..and voice you opinion and express contempt? Up to a point that is...depending on how flagrant their violation is? I think it dishonest in one respect...to not be authentic and not say what you really feel and if you feel contempt...you should come right out and say it if it;s appropriate to? All at once...and not piece meal it out... bit by bit. That is not being "nice"....that's kind of being chicken shit. A little bit I think? It makes it very hard to understand someone, when they are trying to say something....but not really saying it? Tap dancing around it.....pointing at it......looking at it....inferring or implying....but not coming out and saying the words that are easy for anyone to understand?
Or.....you are doing it another way, with intention and making a back handed comment ...on purpose...to ahcieve the same effect? Which might come in any number of ways...but the way I do it...is just the way I do it...but I've found that the message still gets through if I add in some humor ( satire / sarcasm ) into the mix? It's still contempt....and the message is clear and easy to understand though. But in order to do that, you have to make statements that are so rediculous...that everyone knows what you are doing? If it's done more spaciously....then it comes through as a bad attitude or just simply like back stabbing. Back stabbing...is what I'm saying is Chicken Shit. If you are going to confront someone, and call them out...then you need to gow a pair and get in their face and be ready when they hit you....because that is what they will likely do. Hit you back, if you actually call them out. Doing it ...behind thier back...if you wouldn't do it other wise...is back stabbing because your afraid of what they might do if you did it to their face and stood their and actually challenged them openly and honestly with the courage to do so. And that;s exatly what happens sometimes ( like in the rock concerts when I approached people and told them to knock it off )...some times they hit you....but I volunteered for that job. They hit you....they spit on you....they call you all kinds of filty names....they throw things at you....the yell at you....they do anything and everything to intentionally try and hurt you? At all cost they will try....even as you are escorting them ( in an arm lock ) right out the door? It's what ( some people do ) but it only the ones who are doing something wrong.....which in my experience under those circumstance...it was usually about 10....out of 10,000 people who were like this because those were the only people that actually got thrown out the door on any given day. That's not anything to be to worried about if you were one of those 10,0000. And that was my job...to take care of those 10 people, who were ruining it for everyone else.
So Jon...being an ADHD man, with all that experience behind me now, I heard what you had to say and you are not wrong either? And I now, how I have been, and how I have seen things in the past and then drawn conclusions on my own experience...that were not always the right ones? And once you draw or come to a conclusion...then usually that means...that you beleive it too? That would make sense, wouldn't it? The problem here as far as I see it is....nobody right, if everyone is wrong. If you are trying to apply...the wrong conclusion...to the wrong problem...then that is a problem but in that case it's yours not anyone else if you going off of assumption and you don't really know for sure? Not knowing ...for sure...is where things get sticky. And just like the do-gooder boy scout business man in a suit and tie on the bus....he stepped his foot..right into it...and caused a cluster Fuck of a problem for everyone...because he took it on himself...to this he knew what needed to be done for everyone....and everyone ended up hating on him....not the crazy guy in the back of the bus yelling at his imaginary friend. No one liked it....but he wasn't doing anything wrong. But in reality...and objectively speaking...he just made a mistake in judgment. He used poor judgment...to make a bad decision and then he acted on it which ended badly for everyone. And I have to be honest with you now, because this is the honest to God truth. WE ..as in people with ADHD....don't always make good decisions and we use poor judgment...as the source or why that is? It is the effect that ADHD has on our executive function...that makes that happen...without any tintention on our part what so ever. And when you don't own up to it...and make excuses for it...rationalize....defend, get pissed off at other people for calling you out....then that is ( our ) personal problem....and we're making that other peoples problem...and they do have a right to say so. Owning up to it..and then saying you're sorry or even just ...please excuse me.....you are simply asking for forgiveness but you have to be ready for what ever they throw at you and just take it...in any form that it comes. Fighting and arguing about what makes you mad...is not a good reason to do so. There are good reasons to be angry and speak up...and there are bad reason to do it too. How you do it...has everything to do with how it will come back to you at the end of the day. I am learning daily...how to do that better. And I am learning how....where before I simply did not. I can forgive myself for what I didn't know....but there is really no excuse to not find out why..and then do something about it. That's what pisses people off...when they see it coming and they have no control or ability to stop it, so it doesn't effect them negatively. Just like my my examples....there is a right way and wrong way to do things and it depends on the circumstances. One size does not fit all.
Wisdom comes through experience and learning and there are lots of teachers out there that have come to the correct conclusions for us as long and you learn from them and listen....you don't have to figure everything out by yourself. Here's a couple that came to mind............
"The superior Man, acts before he speaks, and afterwards speaks according to his actions" ( Confucius )
"Speak softly, but carry a Big stick" ( Theodore Roosevelt )
Being "NICE"...and being "Kind"....are TWO completely different and independent things entirely. You can be "NICE" and not be "Kind". If the goal is to be "NICE"...then you got it all wrong. Nobody is right...if everyone is wrong.
"Nobody wants to play nice, let alone be focused on the details when they loath and resent what/who they were born every hour of every day." After everything you said that I agree with Jon....you made this conclusion..and you said "Nobody" You asked for it....and I told you what I think?
"Aren't we all like this?" No Jon....( we ) are not like everyone else. That is not my opinion. That is a statement of fact. But the truth is....only in some ways....in all other ways, we are exactly like everyone else. The trick I've found is simply knowing exactly which ways those are? And if someone doesn't beleive you....then what does that matter? Unless they are hurting you or getting in to your business, then why even worry about it? And why would you care or need to get into any one else business? It's none of my business, and I could care less what someone else thinks of me. Unless, I am doing something that is negatively affecting them....or actually doing something wrong and that ends up hurting them in some way? If I'm just annoying like the guy in the back of the bus but I'm not breaking any laws......it's free country, that none of my business and I'll follow what everyone else does in that case. Ignore it and just leave them alone. If you can't even do that, then that's a personal problem I think? That will come back and bite you....just like the do-gooder boy scout...he made it, his business which was a big mistake.....and yet, he still didn't breaking any laws or doing anything "neccessary wrong". It just wasn't the wisest or the smartest thing he could have done. That's all. There wer more options he apparently didn't think about. Like confusious said....spot on the money.
J
JJamieson, it is kind of you
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
JJamieson, it is kind of you to offer so much help on this Forum. I hope you receive as well as give! (Seriously; I'm not being sarcastic. You seem very empathetic.)
Thank You PI
Submitted by kellyj on
And Thank You, for being here, an allowing me to help myself. I couldn't do it without your help in just speaking openly about how you really feel. Silence is the worst thing of all. That and not knowing what is wrong? I can't think of anything worse than those two things. :)
I'm Coming Back Here Again.....
Submitted by kellyj on
To point out something to for all concerns that just happened in the news which was so like the story I told in my last comment here about me being on the city bus with the man who was arguing with his imaginary friend? And then the "do gooder" businessman got in the middle and got punched in the head? Well in respect to what just happened, this guy in a very similar way, was attacking a couple of woman with racial slurs and throwing bottled water on them? And when two do "gooders" as I am calling them came to these two women's rescue....this nut job white supremacist wack job pulled out a knife and killed two of the would-be rescuers and stabbed another and put them in the hospitals in serious condition? I just remembered saying in this very comment when I saw this guy in a business suit approach the guy in the back of the bus thinking to myself "Uh oh, this is not going to be good" RIGHT!!!! It wasn't good!! Two people got killed and another seriously wounded because a nut job is calling these two women names and threw some water on them? The last thing you would ever see me do is to go try and rescue someone who doesn't need rescuing since.....": sticks and stones may break your bones but names will NEVER hurt you! Neither will water out of a water bottle? And they are calling these people heroes in honor of what they did and I cannot take aware their bravery...but I am doubting their intelligence in dong so? Obviously, this was the last mistake those two men will ever make but more importantly, I would have never made it in the first place? Maybe it is because I worked those rock concerts and I had to deal with miscreants at the time, but the big difference at the rock shows, they did screen and pat down for weapons like knives to be sure? This guy was a loose cannon and I watched a video just a week ago of him ranting and railing away at some rally they were having? All I can say is I took one look at this guy and my radar was going off big time. Like lost in space with the robot..."Warning, warning, danger Will Robinson!!!".....BIG TIME...and in this case, I'm not trying to be funny. The only reason they are calling these guys heroes...is cause they are dead. In my opinion, I like to live thank you very much? Like my dear old dad said long ago....." it doesn't matter who's fault it is when your dead"
Bottom line here and why I came back to this. It was the same scenario, very similar circumstance but this time this guy was not just fighting and arguing with a building or his imaginary friend, but real live victims that he picked to attack? But he was only attacking them with words and a water bottle. Not until the do gooders thought they would intervene...did this guy pull out a knife and kill 2 and injure one, instead of hitting the person in the head like I witnessed? All I can say, under the same set of circumstance is.....DON'T DO IT!!! YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! Leave well enough alone, when dealing with a deranged personality. There is only one end result in this case, and it won't be favorable to you what so ever? The cost is too high for what it's worth IMHO. The same goes for stopping in the middle of the street suddenly to let someone jay walk.....the very second you stop unexpectedly...the person behind you who isn't ready will ram right into you and you will be the one who caused the accident even if technically, it was the persons fault for rear ending you? All for what? So the person on the sie of the street who is not suppose to be doing that anyway...won't have to wait another 30 seconds until you and the care behind you go by? I'm sorry but, you get no brownie points in heaven for not using your head and trying to save someone who really doesn't need to be saved in the first place? Just say'in...in this case?
J
ADHD Marriage
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Sara,
From my experience, the issues in the book don't apply to non ADHD marriages. I was married for 17 years, and my husband did not have ADHD. There was abuse, and many problems in our marriage, but his behavior towards me had nothing to due with ADHD. I have seen some things that apply to my 18 month relationship with my boyfriend, who happens to have ADHD.
What is the Book?
Submitted by kellyj on
Sara, you mentioned "the book" a couple of times but that really makes a difference on which book you are talking about? For example. Dr Hallowells book, "Driven by Distraction", was really the first book I read about ADHD. As I understand him and how he writes, he has ADHD and he relates things well, from the ADHD perspective. I found that really easy to understand and follow, but it was most enlightening for me to read these things I knew all my life, but did not have an answer for? What that did was verify and validate in a sense, what I already knew but didn't have a name for it? After reading it, I understood what those things were? It was basically and exclamation mark....that punctuated my ADHD for you without any doubt in my mind. To the point, a person couldn't have written that, if they didn't have ADHD. I knew it, the second I read it with hesitation. A book, written about ADHD, talking about ADHD. written by someone who has ADHD for people with ADHD. Bingo...extenuated and punctuated dead on...spot on. I knew exactly what he was talking about and I understood every word. That's not saying that someone without ADHD couldn't understand it or follow it, but there is no way you could know if what he said was true or not...if you didn't have it yourself.
You would read the information and go "mmmmmm??? That's factinating, (or ) interesting. Very informative. Good information. Good to know. Gee, I didn't know that??" ( check all the above ) But you wouldn't go.....OMG!! He's talking about me? Not going to happen,if you don't have ADHD. Takes one, to know one...takes on a whole new understanding from that perspective since...you know it, when you see it, hear it, smell it, feel it ...etc etc etc. And there is no way to fake it. Fake it, till you make it. Uh uh. Either you have it, or you don't..and if you don't have it, there is no way for you to know? Knowledge...comes from reading out of book. Knowing, comes form experience. Not experience,....with it...like a non ADHD person would say....but experience....having it.....you own it when you have it...and if you don't....you don't own it. That's the bottom line.
So the most important aspect of this...is simply experience. You can't give your experience to someone else? All you can do is talk about it, explain what it is "like", or try and tell someone how you are different? And all they can do is listen to you do this....and try and understand? And in my experience ( though out my life )...a kind of human thing to do...is either discount, deny or dismiss....things they don't understand? And if you don't own something yourself, then there is no way you can understand it like the person who has it. No way no how....can you experience what you don't have? But the problem that I have even faced more recently, not just with my wife ( who I think she has pretty severely ) is, she is nothing like me, not at all in the ways that my ADHD manifests itself. That is the key word here to keep in mind? What each person does with it, will be vastly different from the next? Just like all people do, they do what they do with anything and that is a different as there are people in the world? We are all made to identify and recognize "things". And we learn to identify ourselves, based on what we see in others too. We are all born "copy cats" and monkey see, monkey do. If you have no context, to place yourself or put yourself into....you will put yourself into any place where you think you fit like Jon mentioned? And if you don't fit, then you will think you are a mis-fit?
"Things that my expartners said were going to get done , got done. Finances were in order. Chores were split. In short, the households ere run very efficiently and contributed to by both parties. There was no need to discuss things - they just got done. I can't believe how hard this is. "
This comment, really resonated with me, especially the last part "there was no need to discuss things." This was the environment, that I grew up in. Everything worked like clockwork...every T was crossed and I was dotted right down to the last detail and there were never any problems as far and a "tight ship" running smoothly went. There was a reason for this and I will get to that in a moment....but the way it worked in our house was...my Mom was a stay at home Mom. She did all the shopping, she cooked all the food, she did all of the cleaning, she did all of the laundry, she did all the the errands, she did everything that had to do with the kids and she planned for things, did all the "goffer" work, and she did everything that entailed "womans" historically stereotypical duties of the house. She was in essence....second in command and "house manager" period. No over- lap in duties. No shared duties what so ever. My father, in my entire lifetime that I ever remember, set foot inside a grocery store not once...in his entire existence in my entire life time. He had no input, in decorating. He had no input, in the way the furniture was arranged. He had no input period...when it came to the inside of the house. He did not clean, he did not cook, he did not do laundry to the point....his shirts were clean and folded in his drawer waiting for him at all times. Neatly pressed and organized and my mother did all of that..and he did "0". I'm not exaggerated or not embellishing one tiny bit. 'the second you walked through the door to the inside of the house....you were walking into my Mon territory.
My Dad....woke up in the morning and took a shower and put his clothes on. Then, he walked into the kitchen and sat down at the dining table. My Mon, had the food ready, right on schedule, the table laid out and ready, and she served him at the table with the food on the plate even...just like at a restaurant. In order for this to happen. She got up, and went straight to the kitchen while my Dad was getting ready. Not a blip in the choreographing of this...it was a very tight ship. Then, my father got up from the table, got his coat and hat, and walked out the door and went to work. My Dad worked 6 days a week...and sometimes 1/2 days on Sundays for a while, but later got Sundays off. That was his schedule, for as long as I lived there. On Sundays...my Dad worked outside of the house, until I got old enough..to take over his outside duties. My mom had flowers and such outside, but if it was outside of the house...that was "mans" work. No women did those jobs and that was not expected. Cars, repairs, building, projects, painting, mowing, trimming etc... No over lap in duties....what so ever. My mother, never touched a thing on the outside of the house. Not even once...in my entire lifetime of living there. Nothing was shared. Clear and defined. No confusion, Complete and absolute.,...division of labor. And everyone knew...exactly what was expected of them..and everyone knew exactly what their job area was. If there was a problem on the inside of the house, my Mom took care of it. She would ask my Dad, who to call or where to go...and he would tell her and then he would leave. No one did anything, for anyone else. Every man, woman, and child...had a duty, with clear and defined job descriptions and the expectations were either met or they weren't. And if they weren't...there were consequences to pay. And the consequences matched directly to the severity of the offense . If it was flagrant, or insubordinate...then it was straight to the "brigg" or "corperal punishment" with summary execution. Like...right now!!! "You are weak, and worthless....now drop and give me twenty!!! " BAM No if's ands or buts. And in the hierarchy of things...My Dad was the 5 Star General, in charge of the entire theater of war, the judge over seeing court marshals and the executioner of punishment. The giver of grace or pain...that was up to you? My mother was Second Lutenient...in charge of the household duties she was the giver of nuture , Love and affection. Pleasure was solely up to you where ever or when ever you could find it. Smoke em' if you got em' and if you don't...then tough titties. And us kids were the grunts...wer were lower than pond scum!!! LOL And being that I was last in...I was lower and than that. I wasn't even pond scum....I was the scum, at the bottom of the pond. lol And if, we didn't obey any of the house, there would be Hell to pay!! LOL
But as far as order, or as far as anything ever going wrong? It was the tightest ship in the fleet...you couldn't get any tighter than that. Like clockwork...right down to the last t and i. But the reason for this was not hard to figure out? My Dad was a Captain in the military..and he was a vic president of a large corporation who over saw ( 28-30 retail store under his command ) and they ran exactly like our household...just like the Military. The only difference their was, what ever rank you were born in...was the one you had for life. No promotions, unless you could suddenly ( become older ) which was impossible to do...so that was your lot in our house and that's how it worked...to perfection like a machine.
So I give you onw guess. who had ADHD and who didn't? It wasn't my Dad....just to give you a hint? I think the only problem that comes as far as people with ADHD goes...are the people who doubt that it's real, and don't believe that it is? If you don't believe it is real, or doubt that it is. Then you would be wrong. Dead wrong...and in my mind as I hear someone like this...I dismiss them immediately. Dismissed! Nothing they say after that, is relevant to me what so ever and I can forgive them easily....I just don't value anything they say since I know they are wrong, but it;s simply not my place to make them believe anything. and Frankly....I don't care what they think? And I certainly don't give them any credence what so ever? They can call me any name or label in the book...it means nothing to me..and I give no weight to anything they say and dismiss it just as fast...like water off my back? That is...when they start making their personal problem my personal problem..then I will have something to say but only then. My problem is ADHD and all that goes with it. Their problem...is not believing that it's real? That ain't my problem, I don;t onw that one. My problem, that I do own...is ADHD and all that goes with it?
And understand me as I am saying this? In the household I gew up in.....you broke it, you bought it. Full accountability was a way of life in my house. You own what is yours, but not what you neighbor or any other family remember did. You were on your own, will full license for failure. No discussion. Discussion....unnecessary. But if you failed, you paid. No fee lunch in our house? So the fact, that I didn't know I had ADHD was irrelevant. The expectations were clear and well defined. Your duties were laid out and nothing was ambiguous. You had a job, and job duty, and a job description.....either you did it...or you didn't do it. No ifs and s or butts. Not doing, met with severe consequences. Every man woman and child pulled their weight ( by themselves ) and there were no over laps in duties and nothing was shared. You live and died by your own sword...and if you had to peel potatoes....while the rest of the family went out to the movies and left you home because you screwed up? It was clear, why that happened...nothing was not clear and easy to understand about that? That was my reality...and the reality I grew up in? For better or for worse...it was my reality and that's all that I knew back then.