Hi everyone. I’m happy to have found this forum because I’m losing my ENTIRE mind. I'm going to try and make this as concise as I can.
Some background: we are in our early 30s, together 10 years, married almost 7. We have a 1 year old and my husband works full time and I am a stay at home mom.
There are many facets to what I’m going through, but one of the biggest is that I don’t even know if my husband actually has ADHD and probably never will. He is self-diagnosed and will never get an official diagnoses as he is VEHEMENTLY against mental illness, therapy, and treatment, almost to a point of paranoia. As an example, I am almost certain I had PPD and when I even suggested that might be possible, he basically acted like it was the most devastating, horrific and shameful thing I could say. I will never be able to get professional help even for myself, and while I know we are not doctors, I need to try and figure out if I’m dealing with an ADHD partner or someone who has other issues.
Here is a list of things I have noticed.
-He is not impulsive in the traditional sense. He is socially aware and tactful, and never has any problems in work or school (graduated on time with honors, never been fired, not a job-hopper, etc).
-He DOES go from one period of intense hyperfocus to the next. If something is on his mind it’s all he will talk about, think about, or do. If he’s starting a hobby or making a major purchase he will research things to absolute death, I’m talking days to weeks, sometimes giving himself anxiety or ‘analysis paralysis’. He has made many exchanges and returns and has sold off many things related to old hobbies he is no longer into. BUT...
-He is VERY responsible with money. He does our budget and pays the bills, and we have never been short on money, drowning in debt, etc etc. everything is always paid on time or early.
-He is normal cleanliness for a guy. Not super messy, not super neat-freak. BUT...
-He basically never does chores unless they are ‘his’ that he likes (mowing, building things, doing repairs etc), and even if I ask I’m met with an ‘ugh, fine’ attitude at best and anger at worst. Now to be fair: I don’t mind doing most of the housework. That is our agreement; I am a mom and housewife and I’m 100% on board with that. But things like plopping dishes on the counter as I am physically loading the washer, sitting on the sofa every night among the messy toddler living room (the untidiness stresses him out to no end I might add) until I come in and start cleaning and going “Oh yeah sorry I probably should have done that”, that sort of thing? If he ever DOES do a chore it’s usually a disaster that I have to redo and any sort of comment, no matter how sweet or constructive is met with “You could just be thankful for my help”.
-He has essentially zero patience for anything. Anything that causes him even a microscopic amount of delay, frustration, inconvenience, etc. is cause for an explosion, unless of course it’s something new he’s excited to work on or try.
-He has a terrible temper. He has never raised a finger to me or broken anything or whatever, but he’ll snap, argue, insult, gaslight, and make small threats (“If you can’t talk to me about this I’m sleeping in the guest room.”) and even pick fights if he’s stressed or having a bad day. I’m walking on eggshells frequently.
-His attention span/short term memory seems to be getting a bit worse, or maybe I’m just noticing it more. Things I say are never heard, things he goes to do are often forgotten upon arrival (“What did I come upstairs for?”), etc.
-He can be extremely controlling. There is ALWAYS a comment or opinion on what I should be wearing, cooking, doing, saying, watching, going to do, buying, etc. I watch a certain Youtuber? So beneath me, I should be learning something instead. Tried almond-shaped nails? Trashy, cut them short again. Dyed my hair? Gee I hope I get to see your natural color ever again, it’s so pretty, it’s been FOREVER since you haven’t been using dye (it’s been about 6 months and before that my hair was natural for literal years), etc.
-He has an extremely high sex drive, and my participation is not enough. I’m supposed to be a starry-eyed nymphomaniac or I ‘don’t find him attractive’ etc etc. I have a pretty moderate/maybe low sex drive, but while I’m happy to try and meet him in the middle and do enjoy the romance, unless I come into it already foaming at the mouth it’s not good enough.
-Almost everything is an argument. His short temper and explosive frustration turn even the simplest things into a battle where I am always wrong, losing, or on the back foot. He fights less and less fairly with every passing year, and there have been times where he has said something so insane my mouth has fallen open in shock. Again, to be fair: I am NOT perfect. I don’t always argue right, I have trouble articulating myself, and I can be emotional, stubborn and defensive. I cry a lot, not on purpose but it’s how my body copes with stress. But there have been things I would never say to him or things that are off-limits that don’t really get reciprocated. I have been called names, accused of lying CONSTANTLY, threatened with sleeping in another room or staying in a hotel, told I was a lazy/bad parent, and the latest favorite term used almost daily: I’m gaslighting him. It just happened this morning when I told him twice the tea already had sugar in it, he added more sugar, and then it turned into “You never said that. Ever. Stop gaslighting me.”
I know this is already too long, but I need to add one more thing. I have just painted a horrible picture of the man I love, and I need everyone to understand it is NOT ALL BAD. My husband is smart, funny, loving, and an amazing partner and father. He works so hard for my daughter and I and nothing matters more to him than my happiness and approval. He is so thrilled I’m a stay at home mom and compliments me multiple times a day on how beautiful and wonderful I am and what a great job I do with our daughter. He has made me a smarter and better person. The sun is out a lot of the time in our marriage, but when the clouds roll in it’s always a hurricane. Divorce is not an option, even though sometimes it almost feels easier than the insanity I’m dealing with. I want to learn how to navigate the storm, not go overboard.
Thank you for reading, if you did. Even if no one says anything to this post I’m so thankful to just be able to get all of this out of my head. I’m tired of wondering if I’m just being lowkey abused or if I actually have a husband struggling with mental illness.
Welcome, Phantasm
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I am so glad it felt good to get it out. I felt and still feel the same way when I can share on this forum to a group of people who automatically understand what you're going through. It's such a relief.
It's hard to tell if your husband has ADHD (maybe because I'm not a professional - but I was with an ADHD partner for 20 years). Some of what you said definitely lined up. Some seemed not to and quite a bit seemed more like abuse than ADHD to me. What I can say is that there's no question my husband had ADHD and he was extraordinary with money. It's possible that saving was an area of hyperfocus for him, even. However, my husband was late with bill payments often. My husband would also research every purchase to death like you described. When his dad was buying new tires, my husband must have put anywhere from 50-80 hours into researching the best ones... ultimately my brother-in-law just went to the local store and bought some damn tires! My husband was irate but couldn't see that his research was out of line with "normal." That's just one example of hundreds. Our trips were virtually impossible to plan because he would research them for so long - try to get the best prices, etc. We'd miss out on flights and hotels as a result. Anyway, the point of my stories is that just because our partners have certain traits that don't seem to line up with the textbook definition of ADHD, doesn't mean they don't have it. To help figure it out, since ADHD is highly hereditary, I was wondering if you can think about his parents... do either of them fit the more textbook definition of ADHD? If so, you're probably on the right track. Even your baby... is your baby a very fussy baby? If so, it might be ADHD. If you can't see it in his family, it still might be ADHD, but it could also be something else - or just his personality.
I will say the controlling aspect of him you described is worrisome and some of what you described sounds like outright abuse. It is concerning to me anytime a man (or any person of any gender) thinks he has the right to control his partner's appearance or interests. Even to comment on them in a such a derogatory way, actually... that's pretty classic manipulation (putting you down subtly and not so subtly so you don't feel good about yourself... even the compliments he gives you keep you coming back for more...it keeps you off balance). The sex also strikes me as his way or highway and pretty extreme... I'm not judging as my partner was/is addicted to porn and he had no ability to be with a real person anymore. I'm just saying... why don't your needs or sexual preferences matter? Why are you always catering to his? Him accusing you of not finding him attractive is his way of getting you to double down and "prove" you do by doing what he wants. Also watch out for abusers who accuse YOU of doing the very things they're doing (he accused you of gaslighting). It's another tactic - look it up! The fighting less and less fairly should also be something to watch out for... if it continues to get worse at the same pace it has... what will he say or do to you 10 or 20 years from now? If it hasn't started yet, will he fight this way with your child eventually or in front of your child with you in this way?
Being cool with you being a SAHM is great, but it doesn't give him the right to walk all over you.
I'd not rule out ADHD necessarily, but definitely look at the things he's doing that are abusive regardless of a diagnosis. Here is a good list of things abusers might do: https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse#control-and-shame. A lot of what you described is on this list. Better still, it would be amazing if you could get therapy for yourself. A professional will be able to hear all of your experiences, discuss the possibility of ADHD/mental illness on his side and help you see your situation for what it is.
Wishing you the best.
Thank you
Submitted by PhantasmShell on
Thank you for your help. Sorry it's taken me a few days to reply but I want you to know I read your reply several times and was just so relieved to hear from someone who 'gets it'. Sounds like our husbands are somewhat similar. Don't get me wrong, the over-research can be a blessing; it's actually gotten us a lot of great purchases and landed us in some really good situations, but it's absolutely a double-edged sword as you described.
The article you linked was interesting. It's just so hard to feel like I'm "actually" being abused sometimes because you put what I described next to things like "Control" or "Isolation" and it just feels like maybe I have a husband who is just a little emotionally clueless instead of abusive. What was REALLY interesting was the section on codependency. I recognized quite a few of those behaviors in myself so that's certainly going to be something I have to think about.
His mom isn't ADHD but I never met his bio-dad (who is now deceased) and my husband barely knew him as well, but from what I hear from my MIL he was not a great person and definitely had problems with alcohol. My daughter is certainly all over the place and I often wonder, but I think it's still a bit too early to tell. However, something I will certainly be keeping an eye on.
I have no idea how to approach asking to go to therapy since it ends so badly. I've considered even trying to go in secret but I could never pull that off and don't have the money anyway. Issuing an ultimatum feels wrong, but no matter how carefully I craft a discussion, I never get to use it because as soon as the word "therapy" is uttered, the conversation is no more.
There is more to discuss with others who've replied to me but husband is awake and toddler is screaming at me (oh, motherhood!) so I need to run for now
Codependency
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I know what you mean with abuse (especially emotional) being hard to categorize. And it's my opinion that ADHD can sometimes result in "accidental" abuse. For instance, my husband would interrupt me constantly. And abuser is perhaps intentionally trying to stifle you or show you your opinion is not worthwhile. My husband's ADHD meant he needed to get the thoughts out right away or he would forget them - and his impulse control was too low to stop them, too. The intention wasn't to hurt me. An abuser might withhold sex to punish a spouse. Mine was just addicted to pornography and couldn't perform... porn became easier. He didn't want to deal with his own issue, so we just stopped having sex. My husband might have lashed out with an insult or emotional reaction he'd later wish he hadn't. Untreated ADHD made impulse control an issue and he'd end up apologizing later to me or my daughter for words he regretted in hindsight.
However, intentional abuse or not, often the resulting impact on you is the same if the person executing the behaviours doesn't get help (in my case, treat the ADHD) or see a problem. I still felt like there was no point talking if he was going to interrupt me. I still felt lonely in my marriage with no intimacy for over 10 years. My daughter and I still heard and internalized the words he said, whether he apologized later or not.
I also saw myself in a lot of codependency symptoms. I read a book called Codependency for Dummies. Don't let the name fool you - the author is widely respected and the book very detailed and practical. I have read it 3 times, getting more from it each time. The first time, I think I was in denial of my own "symptoms." I thought I was just a people pleaser. But there was much more there... self worth/love/care issues and habits I learned in childhood that it was time to unlearn as an adult. There's also a Codependency No More podcast I've found helpful since you can sort of choose the sub-topic of codependency you want to dive really deep into.
All the best to you! Thank you for taking the time to write back. :)
Still more info, thank you
Submitted by PhantasmShell on
I think you hit the nail on the head with quite a bit of my husband's behavior and also how it made you feel, intentional or not. I doubt most (if not all) of his behavior isn't meant to be the way that it is. He's a painfully logical person and is extremely driven, where as I'm a bit more emotional and laid back (not lazy, just not as constantly go go go) and, right or wrong, I think that pushes some buttons in him sometimes. But I've seen every end of the spectrum of behavior from him from "I'm so sorry about our argument I'm in tears and look I made you a coffee cake" to "Completely oblivious and if it ever comes up again feeling like that wasn't a big deal/was totally justified" so my confusion continues.
I like what you said about behavior being abusive if the person refuses to fix the cause even if the action is unintentional. That feels important, as do the book/podcast recommendations. Thanks for all your help! I hope things are going ok for you and your husband!
Hi PhantasmShell....
Submitted by c ur self on
I agree w/ Melody
What I will add here is, he probably isn't aware of the effects he is having on you, to a large degree...What it sounds like to me is that your husband is offended by parts of your living of life...Your husband sounds like an intelligent person who is a high performer in many area's of life....I think he is placing (possible unspoken) expectations on you, that he thinks is reasonable based on your agreement (SAHM)....Your husband may think you are lazy, but, want tell you, (Don't know how to approach the subject without hurting your feelings) but is doing more damage to your spirit by being so ugly and demeaning....
A lot of what you said about him say's he is blind to his own issues (social and relational respect, hyper focus, self absorbed or selfish) These things do follow adhd, but, it doesn't mean people without adhd can't have personality issus that are not adhd....Narcissism, and other personality disorders...
You guy's are young, and in my opinion, are a perfect example of couples who need counseling...He really really needs to have to hear what you have written hear....And you really really need to hear him speak calmly about his feelings concerning you, and your lives together....
Without full understanding of each other, the expectations will continue to rob your life....Just like the sex piece....You think he should be different....He thinks you should be different...So that uneasiness is just robbing you of the level of acceptance and intimacy you should be having....Life has to about discipline, love and respect, and acceptance of each other.....
You have different realities, your different in many way's, you can't think for each other, and this never changes...But when we do the relationship work without excuse, when you accept the difference's, so the union is bigger than our own selfish desires, then you can have a great life...You and your husband need to take a written list of these uncomfortable moments that keep happening because of placing expectations on each other that isn't OK, for the other....IF you really love each other...You can work through this....
Even if he refuses to go, like Melody said, you should go....
Selfishly attempting to think for each other, judging each other, and attempting to press our will on each other, will only lead to chaos, dysfunction, and destruction of the relationship.....I suggest you recognize that you and your husband have no ability (on your own) to bring understanding and acceptance of your difference's to this situation....The first thing on your list to speak to counselor is about the egg shell walking....IF you don't STOP that, you want be having sex at all in a short time, and if you do, you will be thinking and probably saying hurry hurry hurry to the person you may love, but, you want even like or desire....
Take care of you relationship for the baby, and each of you....Most counselor's are trained to pick up on addictive behaviors, intrusive and abusive behavior's....Letting fear cause you to do nothing, just guarantees' it will continue...
I will pray for you guy's
c
Thank you C
Submitted by PhantasmShell on
C,
Thank you so much for your reply and advice. I'm sorry it's taken me a few days to reply.
You are so right about my husband being very intelligent and high-performing. I've considered the possibility of other conditions but, like ADHD, some of the 'key' pieces seem to be missing. I do actually have an aunt who's a Narcissist and luckily I don't think that's the case with my husband, but until he sees a therapist (which will be never) it's all just guesses.
"You can't think for each other" is an amazing phrase, and something I KNOW I am guilty of, and I'm sure my husband is too. I now need to stop doing that, and I endeavor to try.
I'm not sure how I will ever be able to get to a therapist. I might need to write my husband a letter to ask since trying to have a conversation goes absolutely nowhere.
I've ready your posts about your own struggles and I admire your strength. I'll be praying for you also.
Thank you also...
Submitted by c ur self on
I appreciate your comments and your prayers....
I've struggled with the fact that my words of frustration are better off left unsaid between my spouse and I (can't take them back)...Love and wisdom should move me to being quiet, when I (we) can't accomplish good things in conversation...The sad part about that is, many of us may jump strait to justification, denial or blame of the subject matter that is being attempted to be shared....(it's painful to continually hear about your short comings by a spouse who is speaking about their own abilities, and projecting those onto the spouse, sadly I've done this to often) I think to often our desire to defend our choices (our thinking) is greater than our desire to work for unity and truth for the relationship....As human's we can easily fall into the trap of seeing our spouse's (everyone) issues much more clearly than our own...
We have to be honest with ourselves, and ask ourselves....Based on my spouse's reality and thinking, and my own reality and thinking, what is possible between us at this point in life, and keep the product peaceful and pleasing to our heavenly Father...(kindness, gentleness, love, respect etc)...Some times the real answer to that question is sad, and may even seem a little hopeless....That is why I mentioned a good counselor....We just have to have a mediator that can help us to communicate the difficult conversations...Those that keep being misunderstood, interrupted, or can't be accepted, and end in conflict.....At some point we have to REFUSE to be part of the destruction of what God wants for us....
Bless you in your pursuit for a healthy attachment!
c
You’ve given me lots to think about
Submitted by PhantasmShell on
Wise words, C. It's a lot for me to ponder and I think that's extremely helpful. Thank you so much for all your help
I will just echo
Submitted by Brindle on
I can't say it any better than Melody's final paragraph, so I will repeat it here:
"I'd not rule out ADHD necessarily, but definitely look at the things he's doing that are abusive regardless of a diagnosis. Here is a good list of things abusers might do: https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse#control-and-shame(link is external). A lot of what you described is on this list. Better still, it would be amazing if you could get therapy for yourself. A professional will be able to hear all of your experiences, discuss the possibility of ADHD/mental illness on his side and help you see your situation for what it is."
Whatever the root cause, his treatment of you is wrong, and I want you to know that we understand how exhausting it is to live with to someone who is like this. I truly hope you can find a counselor or therapist who can give you the help, feedback, and support you need.
Chose a counselor wisely
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
If you chose a counselor be sure to select one with active current training in evaluating ADHD symptoms. The more experience the better.
Thank you
Submitted by PhantasmShell on
Hey there-
I know I'm a bit slow on the reply but I just wanted to thank you for your input and also for your understanding. No one else I know in real life has the challenge of a spouse with ADHD, so just being in a place where people 'get it' and I'm not just crazy is really encouraging!
We can do this. I hope things are OK for you as well!
You are welcome.
Submitted by Brindle on
No worries on the timing of the reply. I often have spaces between my replies, too. I can read more often, but struggle with time to type out what I'd like to say.
Take care. : )