While my husband reads most of the posts on this site as the administrator, he rarely weighs in. But yesterday he posted some heartfelt – and very wise - advice to a man with ADD whose wife is leaving him because she can’t take it anymore. George’s perspective as a previously badly behaving man with ADD who has successfully changed his life is worth sharing. Here’s what he says:
From the initial poster:
“Well I guess that anyone who have read my prior post know that my marriage was in danger due to my 36 years of not knowing I had ADHD, Well it won, my wife is leaving me, and to make matters worse she had a affair. I know that we must move on and to keep on our med's so we can still improve our self but I feel like my whole life is gone. Im not only losing a wife but I’m losing a family, we have to children together and I won’t be able to tuck them in every night or kiss there them when they’re hurt. I’m not sure I can survive this and its only getting worse.”
Reply from George:
You can feel sorry for yourself and blame the world and everyone for your current challenges (very easy to do in your current circumstances), or ...
You can step back and take in what happened and why, and then chart a course to correct the actions (and lack of actions) that contributed, over all these years, to your current dilemma. With a new course, you will likely be able to continue to be a father to your children and a reasonable partner to whomever you might find in the future. You need to come to grips with the fact that you didn't lose your wife, you actively and passively drove her away. You need to fully understand how your actions and inactions affect others (wife, coworkers, children, friends), and correct them. Awareness is a good start, but it sounds like from reading your and your wife's posts, that you did not quickly enough turn awareness into action.
Treating ADHD is not just being aware of the symptoms and how they manifest themselves, but treating yourself (via meds, exercise, diet) and then learning how to change behaviors that have become habits over an entire lifetime. Yes, unfortunately, meds and other ADHD "cures" allow you to start changing behaviors, but do not in and of themselves make the changes for you or start to solve most of your problems (Let me be clear - I am NOT against meds for treatment of ADHD - they are in most cases required and in many cases extremely helping in allowing you to work at changing your habits).
Who knows, if you change your behaviors and the attendant outcomes radically enough and quickly enough, your current wife might notice and change her mind before the divorce runs its course. But, that should NOT be your expectation or even your goal, it just might be a pleasant collateral outcome. If you make it your goal, your wife won't believe the effect will last (you have given her ample reasons to doubt you over many years). But you will end up as the person you want to be, the father you hope to be, and the positive ex-husband partner in raising your children. Divorce doesn't allow you to abdicate responsibility for your children, and that responsibility is best exercised when you have a positive intra- and post-divorce experience.
Your choice. Wallow in self pity (and be guaranteed the outcome you dread). Be the man you want to be, and increase the possibility of saving your current relationship (from near zero) and to ensure that any future relationships will not suffer the same fate.
Sound too harsh? Sorry. But I wish someone (besides my wife) had sat me down and read me the riot act. I could have saved one marriage, and not caused my second/current wife a decade of intense pain and anguish.
ps If you want to know what actions/inactions to change, peruse the forums here. Many partners of ADHDers have been quite clear, but their spouses don't/didn't get it. I didn't for the longest time. And get help.
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Comments
Advice for ADHD Man - Set a New Course
Submitted by Katharine (not verified) on
To George
Submitted by vcalkins on
George, any help in how to communicate with my husband. Without sounding like his mom. Without him becoming defensive....and trying to put the entire blame on me.
Also, did you ever find yourself pushing Melissa to the point of anger where she then lets you have it? My husband used to do this all the time and I think it was a way to punish himself. Once I let my anger out and ripped him apart with my words, he would stop pushing. He doesn't seem to do that anymore....or is it that I don't let him push me because I understand what he's trying to do.
Communication
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I don't know if George will respond (he's kind of shy about posting even though he reads many of the comments) but perhaps you can try some "learning conversations". These are structured conversations where you take turns expressing your feelings and repeating back to the other person what you think you heard (in different words) until each of you understands what the other is saying. Here's a sample conversation:
You: "I'm feeling as if I'm the only person in the house who cares about cleaning up."
Him: "Your frustrated because no one besides you cleans up."
Y: "Yes, but it's more than that - it has to do with caring about our home and family."
H: "You equate caring about a clean home with a loving family?"
Y: "No, it's more like respect."
H: "You equate a clean home with my respecting you."
Y: "I equate people in the family wanting to keep our home neat with family members caring about our home and our family. It's not just you, it's you and the kids. I get depressed by a dirty house because it's not only a lot of work, but it makes me feel as if no one cares."
H: "So if we cleaned up more, you would feel more taken care of."
Y: "Yes."
(his turn) "But that seems silly to me - of course we care about you. Why would you equate caring with housekeeping?"
Y: "You don't understand why I think a messy home equates to not caring."
H: "Right. It doesn't make sense to me."
Y: "Because taking care of a house takes a lot of hard work. The act of working together shows that we care for each other and have a joint goal - having a home we love."
H: "You don't like doing the work and would like help."
Y: "I would like help, but that's not why it's important to me. It's important because every member of the family should be invested in the home we love."
H: "Hmmm..."
etc.
In theory, you could have learning conversations around your feelings, around how you do things together (or don't and why), around your needs, his needs, etc. The "rules" are:
As for pushing in order to get a response - yes, George used to do this...and so did I. Part of the reason is to "validate" that your (now angry) spouse really is to blame. And, yes, perhaps, to punish yourself. In any event, you are right to step out of that cycle. There is a good book on this topic - stepping out of the cycle of anger - called "The Dance of Anger" if you are interested. It may also give you some insight into approaching him without triggering his defensiveness.
learning conversations
Submitted by arwen on
Melissa, are you *sure* you don't have a tape recorder going at our house??? lol
Of course, this is not how our conversations went when we first began having them, we'd start out OK but our emotions would begin to get in the way and we'd waste a lot of time talking at each other and nobody learning while that was going on. It's so hard not to get emotional, when you have such a huge history of frustration behind you! (My husband actually found this easier, his ADD enabled him to forget a lot of the bad past, whereas I, with an eidetic memory, found putting the knowledge and resulting emotions very difficult to put aside.)
And when we had this particular discussion, my husband didn't say "Hmmm..." at the end, he said "Why?" in complete bewilderment. He couldn't understand why I would think *he* should be invested in our home, and that my thinking that way was completely nuts. It took a *lot* more such conversations to find a way to express my perspective that he could grasp, and finally get him to the point of "Hmmm..."
After 20 years of coping with ADD, we still are having learning conversations (although they are not needed as frequently), and we are still discovering things we didn't understand about each other!
I'd like to suggest another rule: Don't insist that you have to learn something in any given conversation before you stop talking. For my husband and me, sometimes these learning conversations never got to a point where we actually understood each other, but they still took a long time. My husband would get to a point where his mind was just going in circles and he couldn't take in anything I was saying, even though he was truly trying to listen and understand. I learned the hard way that when that happens, there's no point in pushing the conversation any further, you need acknowledge what has happened and let it go, and come back to it again at another time.
Finally, I'd like to recommend a policy, not a rule: try to select a time for these conversations when both partners are calm. Even if a partner is upset at the kids and not the spouse, the emotional upwelling can transfer over and defeat the most well-intentioned efforts. This may seem obvious, but we made this mistake any number of times before I wised up. The calm really really made a difference with us.
You have such great words of advice, thank you so much for being here and expressing your ideas so helpfully!!!
I may be able to help a bit
Submitted by JRGNH on
I happen to have ADHD myself, and even though I have known about it since childhood, I have never realized that my problem effected my relationships as well as school and organization It has only been recently that i have become aware that it has effected past relationships due to my present relationship. I love my present Girlfriend more that words could describe, and it was until we moved in together that issues arise.
As far as driving you to anger is concerned I don't think he realizes that he is doing it. I know this is going to sound kind of weird but I do hope you here me out to some degree.
I once read in a book which covered ADHD, that people with ADHD do something referred to as "reaction Seeking" where they seem to try to create an emotional uproar on purpose as if they enjoy it. The fact of the matter is, those who have ADHD, don't realize they are doing that at all. If you where to confront them on it they will deny that they where trying to do that at all.
After reading that, My girlfriend and I came up with a clever and fun way to combat the issue, shortly after I dismissed ever doing it. If by chance I happened to be doing the whole "Reaction Seeking" behavior, she would smile and make a joke out of it, telling me how I am "Reaction Seeking." I guess to some people it would in fact, sound kind of dumb and useless; to me it was pure gold, because for once I was clued into my own behavior and was able to slowly create mental cue to help me identify when I tend to exhibit such behavior and stop it before it goes any further.
I am not saying that your husband is exhibiting that kind of behavior at all. What I am saying is, that it is common for those with ADHD, to do things that excite the part of the brain thought to be affected By ADHD. Over many years those, like myself, have developed some healthy and non-healthy ways of coping with ADHD, and we don't even realized what we do most of the time. I can tell you that I did not like being referred to as an instigator or trouble maker. I hated it and didn't understand why so many felt that way about me. Over time, I thought it was just other people that are "overly sensitive" or couldn't take a joke ect... I did developed a habit of not trusting myself, due to getting in trouble! Children that want to get into trouble probable wake up wondering what they can do to bother someone that day. I woke up worrying about what might happen that would get me into trouble that day.
Before I go off on one of my typical tangents, that I am so good at :), I will leave you with this.
If your Husband is doing what I listed above, then you can either feed that behavior by reacting to it, or you can diffuse it by ignoring it or talk to him about it, although he will deny it tell he is blue in the face, it will help to try to set up some kind of cue, that you can give him to allow for him to take a step back and see what is going on and how he just may be subconsciously starting to try to upset you.
I am lucky for my Love is very playful and that nature combined with my ADHD, has become EXTREMELY helpful in our relationship.
On of the upsides to ADHD, is the ability to be calm when disaster strikes, because for once the part of the brain that we try to excite using "Reaction Seeking" is finally being excited and we feel a sense of calm. I did hear this one saying that I loved because it resonates so well with me. "In a world of calm the ADHD mind is full of chaos; in a world of chaos, the ADHD mind is calm."
I hope this helps in some way with your problem that you are having with your husband. I do like to see when someone without ADHD takes the time to really understand there spouse's condition so that they can enjoy a loving life with each other.
sincerely,
-Jason
Perspectives
Submitted by plantlover on
I've been reading this forum for months and have learned a great deal from Melissa's insights. Reading George's "Letter to a Husband" was amazing. It's everything I want my husband to know. He's running out of time as my patience is all used up. The stress is affecting my health, and I'm not willing to lose everything to hold together a marriage that gives me very little. Thank you both for sharing your experiences with us. I'm going to continue to "let go and let God" for now. But I'm going to believe that some day we could sit down and have a conversation that would change his view of how to live.
I am on this course
Submitted by ADDisNotMe on
My wife is at the same place as you. She is the kindest, most admirable and adorable person I have ever met in my life. As I write this, I am crying tears I seem to have been withholding for a long time. I was diagnosed over a year ago with ADHD at age 36. I have been married to my wife for over ten years and sadly, I have nearly ruined our relationship.
If you decide to give up, it is not unreasonable and you have to do what is in the interest of your own health and happiness. What your husband needs to understand is what I have only recently come to realize: He will lose you and it is all his fault. Not only that but he has made you sick.
You may indeed "let go" but if you have even an ounce of love or respect for him you will find a way to get him to read the letter. Until he knows how you really feel, he will continue to blame everyone and everything but himself (a convenient but often devastating coping mechanism those of us with ADHD possess) for the failure of this marriage, the next one and every other aspect of his personal or professional life. You don't owe him anything but if you don't wake him up to reality, others will either get hurt or do what you were unable to. If you can support his effort, I bet you will start feeling better too.
Know the feeling
Submitted by Myk on
Altho it hasn't been as long of a relationship, I too know the sting of your darling leaving you because of this wonderful situation that we were thrust into. She just couldn't handle my lack of patience anymore, and left. I fear it may be for good. This is why I have turned to you, in hopes that you all may direct me in a proper resolution so that I may save my marriage and be reunited with the love of my life.
Thank you all,
Myk
looking for help
Submitted by johny on
So my story goes that I have been with the same beautiful woman now for over 2 years, Shelly (a real estate agent) & her 13 yr old son moved in w/ me @ the beginning of this year. This woman has really changed my life for the better and really gave me morals. We have been going to couples counseling for the past 2 months due to some major issues in our relationship. From the beginning of our relationship I messed up, I was not honest w/ her. I never had a great relationship where I could be 100% open and honest. All of my past relationships seem to be superficial. I think a lot of how I am has to do with the fact that I have been spending the past 20 yrs of my life in the music industry and touring US & Canada. Now rite there I’m not an average 9-5 type of guy. On top of that the past 9 years of my life I have also been a licensed mortgage broker, a business I fell into but also fell in love with. So along w/ still playing on the weekends and a Mortgage Broker.
It was really good @ first. But Shelly learned really quickly how she can hate the whole band thing/band guys/groupies etc. Having a relationship & being in a band is hard enough the way it is, so lets just add a version of ADHD/ADD on top of that. Any women that has dated or been married to a guy in a band knows about all the drama I’m talking about, I really try to stay out of the drama, but my mouth has gotten me sucked in it way too many times, we will get to my mouth in a minute. It actually got to the point where Shelly was getting her own female stalkers……and still has them….lol
We went through the phase of her asking me for my passwords for myspace-facebook etc. and she found things she didn’t like. She found a sexual letter from a girl who was a friend of mine, this letter was from Oct 07, 2 months after Shelly and myself got together, nothing ever happened and I never cheated on Shelly but this letter still doesn’t make any sense since all of her other e mails Shelly found from this girl were nothing like this. She also snooped through my cell phone bill and saw that I was talking on the phone w/ one of her friends, but I was always talking about Shelly looking for advice every time we fought. Trust me when I say that both one of these 2 girls are not even close to my type and I think Shelly see’s this.
I never realized that Shelly would turn out to be this incredible woman that really wanted me for me and not just cause I play in a band. I didn’t know what to think @ 1st because when we met she just left her husband in July 07 and I thought I was just going to be a phase for her and then she would get back w/ her husband, so I didn’t take this relationship to seriously from the start. But now 2 years later I realize how much I hurt her and damaged this family we have together.
So now we are seeing that the counseling we have been going too has seen the ADHD in my self. The thing that gets me in trouble the most is my mouth. Since high school it seems that I have just been missing this filter and things just come out. For the people who know me, they just laugh but for the people who don’t know me, I guess I can be very offensive, which is why my band does not let me have a microphone. LOL
Yes I also have a hard time sitting still; which is probably why I’m a drummer. I will sometimes go for days without pacing my self and then one night just crash so hard. There will be times when I say something to Shelly that upsets her and I don’t even remembering saying it.
Shelly thinks I try to start fights w/ her @ least once a week, but I don’t think I do. When we fight I have a hard time giving her space because I always want to know what she is thinking, I have like no patience when we fight, actually my patience is not that good @ all. She has threatened to move out quite a few times. I know she has a very stress-full job and her boss drives her nuts & all she says is one of you has to go, either my job or you, I can’t take both anymore.
It really is hard not to get emotional, when you have such a huge history of frustration behind you!
It’s like when we fight I get so hurt that I don’t even realize what comes out of me anymore, she will say very mean and hurtful things that nobody has ever said to me before, then she turns around and says that no man has ever treated her this bad. I feel I’m very good to her and her son, but I seem to feel more confused then anything. Can this ADHD thing just not let me get a grip on this relationship? I really have a grip on my life fine……….
I really feel this woman is everything I always wanted and she has made very big efforts for me, so I really don’t want too push her away anymore, she is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
Any suggestions?????
John
Suggestion
Submitted by confused60 on
Hey John, sounds like you know what the problem is, but doing something about it is an issue for you. Have you ever sat Shelly down and told her exactly what you posted? If you've been together since 2007 you have both made an investment in each other. Do you regard her as your friend and not just your lover? If so, talk to her about it and ask her to help you work through your problems one by one.
It seems you've gotten far enough to understand you have issues and have done some research and identified ADHD as a possible culprit. So, there are things we (yes, me too) can do to manage our symptoms and modify our behavior. I know what you mean about the anger thing; it can really damage anything good you're accomplished. The other week, after courting my wife (flowers, dinners, meeting for lunch, cuddling, talking to her after work instead of tuning out on my computer) for 3 weeks straight, I lost it and told her she was "like sh*t on the bottom of my shoe." Darn, now what prompted that? (I was trying to stop the pain of losing her by getting her to stop coming back to me and just leave. We've been discussing separating and I just got so hurt one night... we'll that's a different story.)
Anyhow, get the anger under control by understanding what your hot buttons are and enlist Shelly to help you become aware when one of them is in danger of being pushed. For this to work, you must have faith in Shelly and be able to agree that she is right even though you think you are right. Cut back, or eliminate substances like alcohol or drugs that make it difficult to manage your behavior (Pino Grigio is my personal monkey on my back). Do this and make sure Shelly knows how you feel or you most certainly will create the very ending you are trying to avoid. Go read George's advice at the top of this chain again!
Good luck!
Matt
I just have to ask...and you
Submitted by SherriW13 on
I just have to ask...and you need to ask yourself...where does the comment such as the one above (about the bottom of the shoe) come from? Wow. It isn't up to Shelly...or your wife...to help you stop yourself in these situations, this is something YOU have to learn to control yourself. I see my husband struggle (more so now that he's on medication) not to be angry and to avoid saying the first thing that comes to mind, so I know it can be done. I would never want to be responsible for trying to help my husband's buttons not being pushed. I do my part by being as kind and considerate as I can, but ultimately his reactions and outbursts are HIS responsibility to change.
I really hope you can get some help controlling things like this...once things are said, they cannot be taken back...and I know that it takes MONTHS to get past things like this..because when things like this are said we have a tendency to feel that it is YOUR TRUE feelings and not just ADHD. That is hard to get past.
Sherri
Permanent Damage done
Submitted by confused60 on
Hi Sherri,
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. You align with my wife in that she feels it is completely up to me to change my behavior. The point I was hoping to address was having your partner help you to discover what is unacceptable, undesirable and what leads up to it. Personally, I know I very much appreciate my wife being honest with me and being consistently so. Most times I need to be hit over the head with it or have my nose rubbed in it. However, that said, she walks away with the expectation that I'll do something about it so it won't happen again. She firmly believes we teach other people how to treat us.
The comment I made to her that night did permanent damage to our relationship. I can explain away in my head what I meant by it and what I expected to accomplish by saying it but it doesn't matter, it should never have been said. And you are so right, I cannot take it back, ever. A few days later she told me no one has ever said anything like that to her during her whole life. Yes, she felt that was my true feelings. I hope that in some point in her lifetime she will be able to forgive me. We think it was the alcohol talking but that is absolutely no excuse...
Matt
My husband's drinking
Submitted by SherriW13 on
My husband's drinking escalated to the point that he was 'that man' when he would drink...and the ugly, nasty things that came from his mouth when he did were beyond anything I could ever imagine. I have been in your wife's shoes. If you cannot control what you say when you drink, you probably need to quit drinking. My husband quit last February when all of the anger and ugliness escalated into him ripping up our marriage picture and snapping my cell phone in two. I responded poorly (threw it at him), tried to get his, we wrestled and wound up on the floor in front of the kids. Can you say 'ROCK BOTTOM!!!'?? He quit drinking that night.
Even if you can rationalize it in your own mind, you must understand that just as "different" as your mind is, your wife's is "different" as well. When you aren't the kind of person that 'goes there' , it is hard to understand how this person who swore before God and everyone to love, honor and cherish you could say you're no better than sh!t on the bottom of a shoe. I would recommend, if you feel you are going there EVER again, to get up and RUN from the room. We all need to feel that our spouse, our marriage, is our 'soft place to fall' (as Dr. Phil says) ..where there will not be criticism and name calling. Where there is acceptance and love and where we feel like we are with the person that would KILL anyone who dared ever tell us we were no better than sh!t on the bottom of a shoe. The entire husband/wife dynamic is destroyed by this kind of name calling. There is no security and safety in the arms of the man who spouts these disgusting things. Let this be your mantra. Remind yourself, even when you're NOT mad, that it is never Ok to say anything hurtful to your wife...and if you feel the urge, STOP IT.
My husband was at his worst when he was hurt. When I would tell him that I didn't want to remain in the marriage, this was so hurtful to him, I suppose set in motion a spiralling effect in his mind, and the hurtful words, accusations, and flat out horrible things would fly. He has fully admitted that his only goal was to hurt me like I was hurting him. I can honestly say that he is 1000 times better now. For a while, once we started trying to rebuild the rubble, I would say to him "please, don't go there" .."think about what you are getting ready to do and say..it cannot be taken back"...when I would see him getting ready to go off on a tangent. Now he seems to have in place more internal controls...thank the Lord.
You know it is wrong. I don't feel you are blaming alcohol or ADHD for it, but there is always a tendency for us to want to 'explain' it away as one of these...but it does not work for the non-ADHD mind. What works for us is to see you fighting to stop the behavior. Remind yourself...no matter what your wife does or says...there is NO ONE to blame for what you do or what you say but YOU. It is about being accountable for your own actions...and not reacting to pain by trying to cause pain to the person who hurt you.
I truly do wish you the best of luck...this can be overcome..and your wife can learn to forgive you...with enough consistent control of your anger.
Cell phone = access gateway
Submitted by confused60 on
Yeah, not proud to say but I did the cell phone thing a couple of weeks ago. We both have Droids which have a little green light that blinks when you have new calls or texts waiting. My wife and her boyfriend texted each other more than 3,000 times during Nov, according to the bill. That's 100 times a day or 50/day each. She takes her phone to bed and texts with him all night. I constantly have this other man in my house 24x7. She leaves the phone in plain sight and I lost it one night with the constant blinking green light and took out my aggressions on the poor inanimate object. Dumb move, immediate sense of regret. $580 to replace it and with email, Fbook, and IM-- the texts simply went elsewhere.
Must admit I do feel like I at least got this man partially out of my house. She now says they talked about it and decided to stop texting because it was making me angry. They talked about it? Guess that puts me in my place. What am I, an angry child? Maybe yes but I wish they would be considerate of my feelings and not be so obvious. Wait, do you hear yourself? Why are you putting up with such behavior? Sorry, just talking to myself. Having some difficulty seeing the forest for the trees. Maybe we should all move in with each other! (half kidding)
I have been reading various threads and posts for the last two hours and I'm ready to "lighten up". Everything will work itself out in time, and for the better. In my 60 trips around the sun I have always emerged in a better place when grappling with the management of personal change. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the effort you put into it and I understand you.
Boyfriend? Really? Why do you
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Boyfriend? Really? Why do you accept this? By 'accept' I mean, why do you remain married to a woman who is so blatantly, in your face, cheating? We all need boundaries, and I hate to think what it must be doing to your self-respect to accept something like this as something that "I will work itself out". Although breaking cell phones and saying very ugly things isn't the way to express it, your anger feels a little more justified to me now. How you're expressing it is not.
Are you in treatment? (sorry, I don't remember) I really think you need to demand more from your marriage.
Sherri
Difficult to say...
Submitted by confused60 on
Sherri, this is a difficult question to answer, and how you process what I will say depends on your beliefs, and to a large extent, your experience in life with other partners. Warning: this post is a rambler.
The things I have said about my spouse are very one-sided: my side. Know up front that I have not been professionally diagnosed with ADHD although my research tells me I have a high probability of conforming to the mold. I am not in therapy although I did have two visits with a psychologist (a PHD who likes to be called “Doctor” – a pompous academic title that doesn’t cut it in the real world (I work in a global pharmaceutical company alongside many MDs every day)). On the third visit I brought my spouse and we had a very bad experience, ending with a “good luck and don’t come back”. Thanks for nothing PHD A-H. Sorry to sound bitter but this person was truly not interested in helping us get to the ROOT of our problems.
So, my wife is a beautiful, warm, loving, caring, intelligent person who has tolerated me for 25 years. We have a gorgeous 24 year old daughter who is married and completed HS in 3 years and college with honors after that. She married several years ago and lives in the south. 10 years ago my spouse was at the end of her rope with me when I unfortunately was in a serious accident that nearly ended my life. I was not supposed to live the first night in the hospital and they put me on life support. When I survived the night they told her I would be a quadriplegic because I had crushed vertebra T9. I was in a coma for a month in surgical intensive care and in Kessler Institute for another month; it took two years before I could walk again. She stood by my side through this ordeal. I am “OK” today.
The boyfriend is actually her first husband (I am #3), married when she was not of legal age in our state. Her parents had it annulled when they found out and, for various reasons that you and I will not understand, they parted ways. Each raised a family and rediscovered each other at the end of last year. We are all in our late 50’s. My wife and I met 25 years ago and began a journey together, divorcing our #2 spouses and raising our daughter together. So now it is 25 years later.
Answer me this: you are married and think you want another person. How do you go about that? You can’t sit your mate down and say “I want to explore this”, because you’re not sure. So, you meet with your potential lover and find out. Once you are sure you are safe to reveal it to your spouse or you let information “slip” so it will be apparent. Um, this is difficult for me to express, and I don’t really know what I am talking about. I only know how I feel; how my intellect tells me I should act, and how my emotions control how I actually act.
My intellect tells me marriage should NOT be a prison and that I should support my partner to pursue whatever she wants, anytime she wants, within reason of course. If she is not happy with me, that is partially my fault, right? Don’t answer, I assure you, it is. She has already been intimate with this man, and I’m reluctantly OK with that. She was intimate with him before she ever met me or even her previous husband! Wait, don’t be judgmental, remember we have many years experience in life. I’m not convinced we need boundaries, as you say, as created by societal norms. Don’t get me wrong, I am not permissive but my intellect tells me these “false” boundaries are easily violated and are therefore frivolous.
OK, I’m getting lost here. Oh, so: is she cheating? Yes, at first, but no, once discovered since I have encouraged the exploration. Would you want this hanging over your marriage? I don’t. I love her very much. So much that I would step aside for her happiness in life.
Decided to find a way to get her a nice apartment in the southern states, near our daughter. She can get away from me for a while and I can spend some time trying to understand what the hell happened to me and what exactly is this ADHD stuff. I am happy to learn about it but concerned that I may not be able to correct it at my age. I'm still young in persona and most think I am late 40's or so-- lucky me.
So! Do I need to demand more of my marriage? Depends a lot on your personal beliefs. Security in a marriage cannot be ensured by religious or societal norms. You have to build that security yourself, in my humble opinion. I am confident my spouse and I will discover the "right" solution to our current issues. Actually, I really don't give a damn about our marriage: I am much more interested in saving our relationship, something that transcends marriage and lasts forever. I will do whatever is under my control to help her achieve the happiness she desires. I will be fine and even happier in the end analysis!
So when you break the cell
Submitted by SherriW13 on
So when you break the cell phone (a direct response to the hurt her constant contact with him causes you..or so you described) is this just a moment of weakness or maybe a more realistic reflection about how you TRULY feel about the affair..that you're not really as accepting as you'd like to believe you are? Please forgive me, just trying to wrap my mind around this. I certainly respect whatever you feel is best for your relationship...I just hope you're accepting things as they are for the right reasons. It feels to me like you're trying to convince yourself as much as anyone, but I could most certainly be wrong.
I am sure your wife's side of the story would be similar to many here...I don't discount that she's probably been hurt the way you describe.
As long as you remain undiagnosed and untreated the chances that you'll be successful in saving your marriage is probably not likely. Surely you don't feel the best solution is to just accept the affair and hope that she makes the decision, eventually, to stay with you? Twenty-five years of untreated ADHD has left it's mark....how will anything change in your marriage, enough to motivate her to want to stay, if you remain untreated?
Sherri
Done deal
Submitted by confused60 on
Sherri,
First of all, I'd like to say thank you for even bothering to respond to my posts. THANKS!!
Yes, I'm trying to convince myself. My spouse and I still share intimate moments that belie our current situation. Go figure. I really do not truly accept my wife's relationship with this other man. It is beyond my control, however.
I'm trying to find a COMPETENT professional counselor. My experience so far is that there are a lot of incompetent A-H's hanging their shingle out there in the public domain. I need to go look at the CHADD site.
I am not interested in saving my marriage. I want to save the relationship I had with my wife years ago, so that it continues ad infinitum. We can survive ANYTHING as long as we have our loving, enduring relationship. Without it we are toast.
My wife does not believe in staying in the marriage for old times sake. She truly feels that it is mm issue, my problem, and up to me to demonstrate that I can change.
I agree with her.
Having gone through 4 other
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Having gone through 4 other counselors before finding our current one and making ZERO progress with any of them, I can fully acknowledge that finding a competent counselor is not easy. It really makes me angry to think of the thousands of dollars we spent over the course of 3-4 years (our insurance wouldn't pay for our counseling) and nothing was resolved. The closest one came to addressing any issue was to hone in on my anger and focus on why I was so angry. Looking back, it all ended up being about me..my anger..my resentment of my step-daughter..and my refusal to accept my husband for his faults. (Me: "He is taking $100 of the bank at a time, here and there, with nothing to ever show for it..I think he might be gambling" Therapist: "can you agree to let him have $100 a month to gamble with?")
Is there hope?
Submitted by mj123 on
This is all new to me although when I look back - I can see the connections more clearly. My husband was recently diagnosed with ADD - we have been married almost 14 years and have 3 children. He was employed for over 10 years with the same company but did move around internally quite a bit - which I/We naively misunderstood. Four years ago, he left that job and started a new job with a different company in a new town. He was fired after 18 months because of non-performance. Thankfully, he found a new position within 6 weeks (back at the same company) and we thought things were finally turning his way. He was even promoted last year. Then - three weeks ago, he confessed that his job was a mess and he was about to be fired again (non-performance too). We went immediately to a psychiatrist (who we had seen for couples counseling after he lost the first job) who diagnosed him with ADD. He is on a roller coaster with the new medication plus the added stress of his employment. His current boss also has ADD and while very supportive - they have had to put him on a corrective action plan which may lead to termination. I do not know what I can do - our doctor says for me to take care of the things that I need to take care of and for him to take care of the things he needs to take care of - but I am terrified that he is going to lose this job. He had said that he was making progress but I don't know if he is telling the truth. He said that he would start to exercise but he has not even tried walking around the block. He just wants to lay in the bed. He doesn't want to play with the children because they stress him out. We had talked about me going back to work after our youngest started elementary school but it looks like this may be fast-tracked by about two years. I am disappointed and scared and feel angry and sad all at the same time. I have recently had fantasies about being a singe mom with three kids - I have no idea how I would support them or who would care for them while I am working - but I just feel like escaping with them because the man that I thought would love and provide for me/us seems like he can't provide or take care of himself let alone me and the kids. He says that he loves me but does he really? I have never thought like this before and it is scaring me - How can I be strong enough to get through this right now and still live up to my end of the "in sickness and in health" promise? I am praying every day and trying to keep my thoughts in the present - but this has been one of the worst times of my life. I know he feels terrible and I am feeling guilty for even writing all of this - but I was hoping there were some other people out there who could relate - Is there anything that I can do to make this situation better?
hang in there
Submitted by arwen on
Yes, there is hope. I haven't been in exactly your situation, but it has been close enough that I have experienced many of the same feelings your are going through. Yes, it is scary. But the fact that you are thinking about these things and can ask what you can do even though you are scared suggests to me that you are actually stronger than you may feel.
Based on my own experience, I think your husband probably really does mean it when he says he loves you and your children. But "love" is not the same thing to all people. My ADD husband and I have had many arguments about our differing views of love. In my mind, when you love someone, you put their wants and needs on a par with your own -- sometimes even above your own -- and you express it not just through words but also through caring actions. My husband experiences love as a feeling -- the idea of expressing love is very hard for him to grasp. In a sense, there is no "follow-through" on his feelings of love the way there is on mine. But there is no doubt my husband genuinely loves me and our kids, by his definition -- he wants us to be happy, he just doesn't see himself having anything to do with it! So it's possible that your husband's definition of love could be different from yours.
You say your spouse is on a roller-coaster with the medication and job stresses right now -- in a sense, I'd say you both are. In my experience, all you can do in this kind of situation is hang on and ride it out. Give your husband a chance to adjust to his medications. It's very possible that the first attempt at medication will not prove ideal, and different dosages or different formula meds may be needed. It took my husband three or four different iterations before he got any real benefit and felt well with it. (At first he was on Ritalin, but it wasn't enough -- then it was too much and he was having trouble sleeping -- then after they got the Ritalin dose right, he was experiencing some depression so they added Prozac -- tried several dosages of that, too. This process can take some time, each iteration can take weeks or sometimes longer to fairly evaluate.) So my suggestion on this would be to observe carefully how your husband's meds seem to be affecting him, and provide this feedback to his doctor if this is agreeable to your husband and his doctor -- it may help shorten the trial-and-error process. This is an unbelievably hard time for your husband. The meds are very probably causing him to experience things, see things, understand things differently than he ever has before -- that's not bad, but it is new and hard to adjust to. (I have been through the reverse process, as a result of meds for an illness I had -- during this time, my brain was working like a person who has ADD even though I don't have it -- a dreadful experience, but it helped me understand my husband better -- but I can assure you the difference between these mental states is pronounced and can be hard to cope with.)
I understand how you feel about your husband losing his job! My husband at one point was on the same brink, with two young children, and our strategy had been the same as yours -- unfortunately our youngest had serious pulmonary problems, so it would have been extremely difficult for me to go back to work, which made my situation that much more upsetting. Fortunately, my husband did not lose his job, but was moved to a position that he was more able to handle, and when he got his meds settled, he was able to do quite successfully ever since. I should also note that earlier in his career, he had gotten promoted, but couldn't handle the job (too many additional responsibilities), and was allowed to go back to his previous position. Your husband does have some rights about this, his employer cannot fire him just because he has ADD, and even if it affects his performance, they generally have to make sure that they have given him the opportunity to correct the problem -- alternatively most employers would rather make an effort to re-position an employee than deal with a potential lawsuit about it. I know that this is a tough economy to be at risk about your job (I lost mine in January, due to force adjustment), but your husband may be able to work with his doctor and employer to come up with a probationary kind of program. (My now-adult son, who also has ADD, but who was not on meds, had this experience last year with his employer and was able to work out this kind of arrangement.)
Even if your husband does lose his job, and believe me I really do understand what a hardship that will pose to you and your family, it's also possible that in the long run it will be a blessing in disguise. The job your husband is currently in may just not be a good fit for him, and it may turn out that he would be better off doing something a little different. This has certainlly turned out to be the case for my son, who despite the probationary arrangement, ended up losing his job earlier this year for non-performance. It made him realize that it really wasn't the kind of work he's good at, and the job he has found since is working out much better for him.
In sum, I guess what I would suggest overall is what me and my family have done in these situations -- hope for the best, plan for the worst, work with your husband, his doctor and his employer in whatever way you and your husband can to negotiate the best possible arrangements or at the very least try to buy yourselves some time to find some way to make an alternative arrangement work. The more patient you can manage to be with the process, while still trying to be as prepared for whatever happens as you can, will probably help. And I also urge you to read as much as you can of Melissa's blogs and the various posts here, there is quite a bit of useful information that can serve you not just in the situation but in general with coping with whatever problems may arise in relation to your husband's ADD.
Hang in there!! Come back with your questions, and let us know how things are going, we will help if we can. I know this is a very hard time for you, just try to roll with the punches as best you can. Good luck!!
Thank You!
Submitted by mj123 on
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my earlier note. I have re-read it several times and it is reassuring that I am not alone! I am praying that we will get through this and be stronger for it. I want to be the kind of wife who honors her promises. It helps that my husband has exercised the last few days and is getting out of the bed easier. His doctor adjusted his medicine the other day - so I think it is taking some effect. Hearing about your experiences underscores the need for me to have greater patience and to be willing to accept the job change if this is what we need to live a healthy life. I am very grateful for this website and for having a place to go to for advice. I will keep checking in as we roll along and thank you again for your note - I appreciated it more than you will ever know!
is there hope---you wrote my story
Submitted by done on
I have been married for 14 years and have 2 kids. Been a SAHM for 10 years. During our marriage, my husband has been fired from 6 jobs and is about to be fired from job number 7. Prior to this latest one (a career change and move for this one) I was always a mess, but supportive. I believed him when he said that it wasn't ever his fault. Or I wanted to anyway. Now it is OVERLY OBVIOUS that I was wrong. HELLO!!! This time, I have no sympathy. No patience. No will left to support him. No hugs for him. No comforting words. Several years ago he went to a specialist for ADHD and the guy said he didn't have it--despite the fact that I thought he had all the symptoms. I didn't fight it cause "he was the expert!" Now that he is on the brink of losing this last job I am seeing a counselor (as is he and has been for years) who told me that he should go get tested again. He went today. She did a series of questions and diagnosed him with ADHD in a matter of minutes. She prescribed meds he will start tomorrow. Your words about fantasiznig about being a single mom are mine exactly. This time I have more options as my youngest just entered kindergarden. I am now looking for a full time job. I resent that though. I don't want to put them in day care for b4 and after school or vacations and that is killling me. But so is living with his failed career. I NEED STABILITY. Particularly, FINANCIAL stability. We started off so good 14 years ago...it kills me that I have put up with it this long. Then there's the embarrasement and shame. I could go on and on. I am seriously thinking of leaving him. He is a good man for the most part and a good dad. But I need more than that!! I don't want to do this to my kids though. I am sooooo torn. He has a nice personality which is why he keeps getting hired. He's intelligent. He just has no social intuition and can't get the job done. Period. I don't know what to do. I am so thankful to have found this website tonight. It doesn't solve my problems to know he has ADHD but it gives them a definition and a source of support. I don't know ANYONE in my little world with a husband who has been fired so many times. No one can sympathize. I can't even find anybody online with a case this bad. I need direction...I don't know if I have anything left in me for him.
glad you found us!
Submitted by arwen on
While my husband didn't lose numerous jobs, he certainly did have job problems before he was diagnosed with ADD in his early 40's. But aside from that, I've been through the gamut of ADD behaviors with him. And sadly, there are others who have posted here who have had a tougher time than I. So please believe me, you are not alone! If you read the posts and blogs, you will quickly see the similarities between your case and those of many other non-ADD spouses like myself.
I understand your feelings, there's a whole backlog of your husband's frustrating behaviors piled up in your memory and I'm sure you feel as fed up as I did in your shoes. But I urge you to hold off your judgements until you learn more about ADD, and see how the meds affect your husband, so you can better assess what your husband really can and can't do going forward. This is a challenging time for both of you -- good change, hopefully, but all change is stressful, too. Once your husband and his doctor have settled on the appropriate dosage, you may see real improvement in his memory, ability to stay on task and decreased impulsivity. This alone may give you hope to go forward, as it did me.
You say that your husband always claimed that losing his job wasn't his fault. My husband did the same sort of thing, only it was about driving problems. He almost lost his license because of too many tickets and accidents. He always said they weren't his fault. In the case of the last accident, I realized it could not possibly have happened the way he said. The thing is, he really truly believed they all happened the way he thought -- he really didn't see his fault in it. Even after he got onto meds, he still thought they hadn't been his fault. It took a lot of discussion, reviewing and analyzing the facts for him to even consider that maybe he'd been at fault. However, it's also true after he got on meds, he worked hard to change his bad driving habits, and became much more objective about what he did that was a problem behind the wheel. The same kind of thing could have happened with your husband and his job situations, and could possibly now change, if you and your husband work at it as my husband and I did.
You say you need stability -- I agree! *And so do your children*, even more than you. I know I was very torn during this time about what was best for them, and what impact a divorce might have on them. I probably would have left my husband had it not been for the fact that I became convinced that being divorced from him would have been even more detrimental to them than staying in the marriage and trying to make things work better. If we had divorced, I don't think I could have relied on my husband to make child support payments appropriately or to adhere to custody arrangements. His parents, who are still in denial about his ADD after 15 years, would have pushed him to demand a larger role in his children's lives than he could actually have handled. Until he got his driving problems under control, they wouldn't have been safe in a car with him. And they wouldn't have been safe under various other circumstances, either -- our daughter almost drowned when she was little while he was only 15 feet away because he wasn't watching her as he was supposed to, he'd leave power tools around and plugged in where they could be picked up by a curious kid, he'd create all kinds of other hazardous situations through not thinking things through -- I learned fairly early that I couldn't trust him with their safety, even though he never meant any harm and would have been as heartbroken as I if anything had ever happened to them. I couldn't even be sure he would stay on the meds or keep going to counseling. It made me shudder to think what might happen to them if he had custody of them without me or someone else to supervise, as would probably happen in a divorce case. So, even though I didn't feel like I had the energy or the desire to keep working with my husband at several rough points, I felt it was all on me to provide the stability, for my children's well-being, until my husband had made enough progress to participate. While I still think it was probably best for my kids, it was definitely extremely difficult and exhausting for me. But we did achieve stability, and we certainly improved our marriage over time.
Many other people here have relevant experience -- I urge you to read their posts, and Melissa's blogs, there is a lot of good information here. Hang in there!
getting back on track
Submitted by mj123 on
I am writing to say that through all of this I definitely think that pursuing a career is the way to go for me now that my children are almost all in elementary school. However, like you said, the options are limited considering that I do not want them in daycare if I can help it and I'd like to be with them in the summer. One thing that I have been doing for several years already that I really enjoy is substitute teaching and I think that if I can earn a teaching certificate then this might be a good way for me to help provide when/if my husband has job problems in the future. If I can teach in my our local elementary school then that would be the best scenario - but I think that there are free options for childcare within our school system if I were to get placed in a different school. If you are inclined to teach, be an assistant teacher, or work in the school office/cafeteria then this might afford you the same schedule as your kids plus benefits plus a cushion when your husband is having difficulties. I never would have seriously considered this opportunity had my husband not had his difficulties and I find that I am getting excited about my future waiting "just for me". It is what is keeping me going right now when I am feeling out of control. That is the silver lining around this situation that we're in and I am hanging on to this with all I've got and taking it day by day. I think that I may go see a counselor as well just to make certain that I'm doing what I need to do to stay a supportive wife and loving mom. There are days when I think that I have become clinically depressed myself and it might be time for me to get some professional help. Again, I am so grateful for this website - and the other spouses who are trying to hang on for the sake of their marriage and kids and I know that I am not alone. Best wishes.
you are on the right track
Submitted by brendab on
As I read your post I saw myself 3 years ago, going through my marriage nightmare. You are doing a great job brainstorming your options, you are excited about the possibilities, you are taking control over the "feeling out of control", you see your need for counseling, and you are being very proactive. It is merely a matter of time before your life is going to be great. With this attitude and persistent focus you are going to look back in a few years and see yourself as an overcomer.
thank you :)
Submitted by done on
Thank you for responding to my post! Your comment: "If we had divorced, I don't think I could have relied on my husband to make child support payments appropriately or to adhere to custody arrangements. His parents, who are still in denial about his ADD after 15 years, would have pushed him to demand a larger role in his children's lives than he could actually have handled."--IS EXACTLY what I have said over and over. He would never have a job so I wouldn't receive any financial help and his parents (who are a HUGE problem in our marriage as well) would NEVER let us settle this amicably, even if he were willing. They would make it hell for me. They are in denial as well...
Yet, the prospect of saving this marriage seems exhausting. I don't know if I WANT to go through all the crap that lies ahead now that he's been diagnosed. It seems I've been through it for 14 years, now I have to live through it while he goes through therapy, etc. and not be sure of the outcome?? I don't know if I love him anymore. I don't respect him. And yet, my kids... My mother tells me I'll never find another man who will be good to my kids. I say this isn't about finding another man (GOD FORBID!! :) lol But really, my children are such a concern...
It was mentioned that I could look into working for the school system. Been there, done that. But it doesn't pay enough to make it worth my while. It would if my husband could KEEP a job--but since he clearly cannot--I need to be the primary financial supporter for the family. UGH Tough going after being out of work for 10 years.
I will certainly play this out for a while. See how his drugs work. (Don't notice a difference yet but he just started last week.) See if he gets therapy/coaching. See what kind of money I can make. See if I have to move back to our larger hometown or if we can stay in our current location. I have a lot of anger and resentment that will not go away overnight. And I don't know how to start respecting him again. It's a lot to overcome...
understand your feelings
Submitted by arwen on
Done, I really can appreciate where you are, I've so been there! I felt so TRAPPED, I really resented being in this kind of situation. There was a long period of time when I didn't respect my husband, either. There was a brief period when I actively hated him. It's a horrible place to be.
I had also been out of work (being a stay-at-home mom when our kids were little) for 10 years. I had the advantage of looking for work in a better economy, but getting the job isn't the tough part -- it's making a home schedule work while you are effectively being a single working mom, without shortchanging your kids. You are right -- it can be exhausting. I was very lucky that my parents lived about 45 minutes away, and my mom was willing to help once or twice a week with taking my kids to extracurricular activities. If you have any relative or friend who can help you finesse the time constraints, don't be shy about asking them for help! I found it helped to be as organized as possible. For example, I developed a rotating two-week dinner menu plan that fit well with everybody's schedules -- this also helped to regularize my grocery shopping into "week A" and "week B" shopping lists, but it kept the meals from getting boring. The organization takes time up front, but it really saves a lot of time and stress once it's set up. (And setting up routines can also be helpful to your ADD spouse.)
I would have been really skeptical back then if anybody had told me that I would end up where I am today. I have regained my respect, and my love, for my husband. He has worked extremely hard to change, and he is a sweet wonderful man at heart. Now without so many disruptive ADD behaviors, it's so much nicer to live with him. But there's no doubt it came at quite a price.
I am not alone
Submitted by anewme on
Thank you all for your comments. The comfort it gives me to know that I am not alone in my problems is incredible. My husband is currently on a performance plan at work and may lose his job at the end of next month, if not before. He lost his previous job at this time last year due to similar issues--but he had been at that job for 6 years and had some seriously bad patterns there, so we were blaming the circumstances rather than his issues.
Last week when he came home with the performance plan, I immediately said, "You have ADHD" and he agreed without question. He finally broke down which is unusual for him. He never admits that he cannot do things, there is always an outside reason. He has scored off the charts on ADHD assessments. Yesterday he went to our family dr., who gave him the dx and prescribed Ritalin.
Since this revelation, I have had revelations of my own, day after day. I am working to get out of the denial that I have been in. I have realized that I may need to take responsibility for our family's financial future (with or without him). This is so painful and hard for me. Our children are only 1 and 3 years old. Our baby has a congenital heart defect and is having surgery for it next week--adding the stress of losing our insurance to the mix. I am trying not to be preoccupied with the idea that our 3 yo may have ADHD as well. I was hoping for one more year at home with my children.
My husband says that I am the best person in our family to work, and also the best person to stay home with the children. I feel the full weight of this. When I previously worked part-time, he has used the time to watch TV with our older daughter and of course leave all the dishes for the dinner I cooked them on the table. I think I could deal with him not doing chores if he were the stay at home parent, but I could not deal with lack of attention to the children. He very rarely plays with them, but he thinks he does. He has special shows that he watches with my older daughter and he reads books to her. But the kind of focused, imaginative, sit on the floor and interact in a sustained way--the kind of playing and interaction that really helps them learn and grow? Maybe for 5 minutes. Then he would need to go to Target or something.
I was offered a Saturday position and in our (2 minute) discussion this evening of whether or not I should take it, I told him that at least in the short term, it may help me build some trust in him if I do need to return to work and have him be the stay at home parent. He was baffled and thought that was "weird" because "of course I am their parent and I can take care of them." I have controlling tendencies but most of them have been squashed by this relationship. I just want the best for my daughters.
I haven't even gotten into the shame and bad feelings I have from trying to talk to anyone about this problem. Or the fact that his chosen career is very detail-oriented. I am also considering a career in the public schools. We have a long road to go. To walk less alone is a blessing. Thank you.
Is their hope?
Submitted by LulaBelle on
Yes. There is always hope. First of all, do not feel guilty about writing any of this. That is what this site was designed for...A place to vent sometimes excruciating frustration and then get advice from others experiencing similar conundrums. My husband also went through a lot of changes in his career. Finally after many years of great starts and not-so-great finishes, he is working in a self-employed capacity which appears to be the very best fit for him. He is also doing very well at it. However, because of all of the years of disappointment, financial insecurity ect. I still have not let go of my anxiety (waiting for the shoe to drop). Perhaps as long as I remain with him, I will always be on guard. However, I have never seen him less stressed and comfortable in his own skin as when he decided to start his own small business. Perhaps your husband could consider that route too. When your husband tells you that he loves you, learn to believe that that is true. He may not show it in the ways that you can understand, but I have no doubt that he does. Whenever I get frustrated with my husbands distraction or perceive him as not caring I try to envision how I would deal with him if he had a physical condition like the inability to walk. Would I expect him to react, respond in the same way as a person who was fully functional? Would I question him when he would say something like "Honey I would love to join you on that hiking trail today". Or would I treat him with sympathy and compassion. Granted, this is not always easy to do. After all, I have needs and desires too, and would love for him to be fully present at all times, but I know that is not possible so I have to either accept him with his flaws of walk away. I have decide to accept him and try to love him unconditionally. I try to focus on all of the wonderful assets he has and to encourage him as much as I can. I have noticed, that the more that I can give to him in terms of understanding, the more he is willing to understand how I think. In my marriage my husband, I think, is truly from Mars and I am from Venus :)
Losing Hope
Submitted by Ev on
I have been married thirty-four years. I have always believed my husband would eventually realize how unhappy I am, but sometimes I think the one with ADHD only sees what he wants to see. I have always been blamed for every problem we have had, no matter if he was the one who caused the problem. Of course, I could probably write a book on everything which has happened through all the years of marriage. My second son when he was a teenager told me if I divorced his dad, he would never speak to me again. Now, he is twenty-seven and because of all the lies his dad told him through the years, my son now will not speak to me. He has a son who is five years old. I very seldom ever get to see my grandson because of all the lies. My husband told my son when he was getting married that I did not want to go to the wedding. This wedding was to be in Mexico. My husband knew I had bought a special dress, hunted for all the wedding apparel for my daughter who was in the wedding, and had a bridal shower for my future daughter-in-law. I had a migraine headache the night before we were to leave to go to the wedding. I took some medicine and needed some sleep to get over the headache. My husband would not leave me alone, so I could get over my headache. He wanted me to get up and do what he wanted. My husband was getting stressed, so he told my son I did not want to go to the wedding. The next morning I got in the car with a worse headache than I had had the previous night. When I got to Mexico, my son would not even speak to me, because of what my husband had told him. There have been so many arguments because of me not doing what my husband wanted me to do. We have been to so many christian marriage counselors who have said that if my husband will not work on things, I can't do it by myself. Of course, he was not diagnosed with ADHD at the time. He was diagnosed about fifteen years ago. He was in denial for a long time. When I finally thought I had talked him into taking medicine, I started counting his pills. He would always tell me he was taking them, but of course I knew he was not. This started another argument. He has started taking Vyvanse now, which seems to not have the side effects he said he was having with Ritalin and Adderall. If I can tell he has not taken his medicine, he gets mad when I mention it.l I have been with him through job changes, bankruptcy and basicly being kicked out of church because of things he was doing. I have tried to discipline our children when their dad would be running up and down the aisles at the stores. I would try to balance accounts when he would be out spending money which we really did not have. I would always keep an account in the back of the check register which he would not know about, so I could avoid bad checks. I use to tell him about seminars I would go to about ADHD, articles I would read about ADHD, and people with ADHD whom I would talk to about this. When I found this website, I thought I had found the answer to my prayers. I printed out information (little by little) for my husband to read. I know he thought he was the only husband who had such a terrible wife. He has read some of them, I think. Even though men have written they wished someone had slapped them and made them understand, it does not seem to matter to him. My last child who is twenty-two will be getting married in December. I have made up my mind that I have done everything I know to do, so if nothing changes any by the time she gets married, then I am getting a divorce, even though I have never believed in getting divorces or thought I really would do it. Of course, I always thought there was hope that things would work out. I do not believe he will ever own up to anything he does, because it is always my fault. I have always said I am married to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I never know who I will wake up with in bed. My husband can be a sweet and loving person, but normally to other people whom he does not have to be accountable to. We do not even sleep together anymore, because how do you make love with someone you who does not care if you are happy or healthy. By the way, he also has lied to his psychiatrist. I found this out when I told him he needed to go somewhere else, because this one was not strengthening his medicine at all. It turns out, he was not telling her the truth either. She was suppose to be someone who was very knowledgable about ADHD. I also found out that two of my children are borderline ADHD, but have been able to compensate and enjoy life. My other child should have been on medication, but my husband would not agree. He would not help me with any changes we were told to do to help my middle child with his behavior problems. I have made up my mind that I have done everything I know to do, so I am very sad when I say the last thing I know to do is to get a divorce. I would like to be able to enjoy my last years of life with being able to make my decisions without fighting, be able to relax and breath, and to be able to enjoy life. I do not think this is too much for me to want. I look at other marriages where a wife can actually have a life and enjoy doing things. I am sorry I have rambled on so much, but I guess I have gone as far as I can go. I wish I could say there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but I do not think there is.l
Losing Hope 2
Submitted by seeker476 on
I am with you. I know your pain and confusion. In my situation there have been so many jobs lost, such destruction of our personal finances, and such pain for my children that I cannot imagine now why I have stayed. It's not fear - sometimes I have been more afraid of going home to him than not - it's believing in the promises I made.
My husband was diagnosed with ADD approximately 12 years ago. He faithfully takes his medication. But he always manages to find a psychiatrist that only prescribes and doesn't work on behavior modification. ADD, pornography addiction, anger issues - thousands of dollars spent on marriage counseling later, and still I'm the only responsible adult in the relationship.
I don't have any answers for you, but beg you to step back and take an inventory of yourself. I know that I have enabled my husband, and that he was probably attracted to me because I was so driven and responsible. Own your share of the pain, and if it is too much to continue, then make your preparations to move on. But TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! In the end, we live only in our own skin. Take good care of yourself.
Losing Hope 1
Submitted by Ev on
I thought about what you said and decided to try one more time. I told my husband that he HAD to start going to Behavior Therapy. I told him to call his psychiatrist and get a name of a therapist who specializes in ADHD Behavior Therapy. I have talked to someone that has a son who goes to Behavior therapy. So, if he can't find one, we can call this therapist. He must know now that I mean business. He called me from work to find out what the name was (behavior therapy). He called his psychiatrist to get a name. Hopefully, we will be able to get him an appointment SOON. My daughter is getting married in December. He has caused problems at my other two children's weddings. I am bound and determined he is not going to get stressed out and misbehave at my daughter's (I hope and pray). I still think my husband has Oppositional Defiant Disorder also, but I can't get anyone to listen to me. If you do not agree with him, no matter what it is (big or small), he will get mad and lose it. It just does not make sense to me in the things he does and says. Thanks for writing me back. I am trying to take care of myself, but it is not easy when my husband does not seem to understand I need to.
Losing Hope 2
Submitted by seeker476 on
He may never understand - and even with behavior therapy, he may never get what he's put you through. You have to decide if it's worth it. You decide when you've had enough.
Time after time, I have stepped in and rescued my husband. Whether it was picking up a second/third job because he was out of work, or protecting my children from his wrath, or unscrambling the family finances when he's dropped the ball (he is a forensic accountant) - I chose to "fix" it. When I had finally decided to leave last year, he lost another job - and I felt honor-bound to stay. But I decided to stay and support my family. This time it took him 10 months to find full time employment again. He did some consulting during those 10 months, but I don't believe he ever went on one job interview. My 19 year-old son told me that he was just leaving the house and hanging out at a friend's office so I would think he was working. And still I stayed. I am responsible for much of the resentment and anger that I am dealing with. I chose it - whether it was noble or not.
I no longer believe that my husband will ever be whole or fully-functioning as a non-ADD person understands. He is completely self-absorbed, and does not choose to care for anyone but himself. He told me last week that he wished he had never had children. He does not feel he needs behavior modification. After staying and supporting him this past year, now that he again has full time employment, he has decided our marriage is over. I am almost certain he is involved with someone else. That's his choice. He will not change his behavior - so he'll take it to another relationship where it will become another person's problem - not mine.
So that's what I mean about taking care of yourself. When you decide you've taken enough, given all you could, carried too many responsibilities, or been embarrassed too many times. You decide. Learn to love yourself again, accepting your own shortcomings only - not being responsible for his.
I will be thinking about you. You are not alone.
Is my new path on course?
Submitted by confused60 on
Looking for comments about the wisdom of moving my wife into an apartment so I don't damage our relationship any further.
Sigh, how to be brief. I recently heard a news story about adult ADHD and I thought they were talking about ME. After researching it on the internet, I had a coming to Jesus moment, and am seeking professional help me to to turn my ruined life around. I am a text book case and just read any of the stories on this post to understand mine. I am 60 and now understand why I am the way I am. I cried tears of joy when I discovered ADHD. I scored over 100 on an online test where greater than 70 was possible ADHD and "seek professional counseling immediately." It will be a real struggle to fix me, I can see that now. It's 3 in the morning and Melissa, I am up reading your book "The ADHD Effect on Marriage". Thank you for writing it, I feel like someone understands and wants to help me help myself. George, your sage advice seems to be my current path.
Smoldering in the ashes is my marriage and relationship with my wonderful wife of 25 years and mother of my 24 year old daughter. I love her dearly but have driven her away with my behavior. She feels unloved and ignored but this is not true in my mind but of course it is true to a "normal" person. I have tried to repair our relationship but I keep torpedoing my hard efforts with a stupid comment thrown out in a bit of rage and I always immediately wish I could take it back.
But I can't, of course. She has given up on me and is moving on. She has rediscovered an old flame, "the love of her life," and I have actually encouraged her to explore her feelings for him which are now burning hot. I encouraged it because I know I can't stop her. I have fought to keep her but feel I can't compete. 25 years of bad behavior versus a fresh new passionate person? I lose for sure.
Anyhow, living together is now very stressful and I think we need a break from each other. It will be difficult to work on our relationship when she is in a different state, but if we live together there are too many opportunities for me to continue to damage our marriage, I think. I want to spend the next year working on myself and becoming a better person. There is no one in the world who would want to be with me unless I change. This is a big life challenge for me and if I don't succeed I will implode. I have come to hate myself and I'm really a good person who is successful and a good provider despite my undiagnosed ADHD.
I am reasonably certain she will hook up with her current lover and I will lose her, but I think I've already lost her. Sounds desperate but it is indeed. I'm heartbroken and extremely angry with myself for allowing this to happen. I could not understand why things were what they were until I started reading about adult ADHD. I don't blame ADHD, I just blame myself.
It will be financially difficult to provide an apartment and living expenses for her but I can tap into some retirement savings. It's only money and our marriage is worth the effort. What do think about this approach? I can work on me and she can get away from me.
Thanks for any comments,
Matt
BRAVO
Submitted by lonelywife40 on
Matt, Bravo on accepting your actions! What a huge step forward that is. My DH has ADD and was diagnosised just 3+ years ago. Our marriage of 20+years has been deeply damaged by the ADD over the years. I can't speak for your wife, but there is one main theme in all of this ADHD stuff is that both partners need to work on themselves (no matter what the state of the marriage will be) - you have begun this journey.
This website is so wonderful for both ADDers and their partners. It does provide a support group for us nonADDers as well as knowledge about how to deal with ADD in our lives. I hope you find this helpful also. The books Driven and Married to Distraction are wonderful tools!
I wish you the best of luck in your journey of self understanding and love.
Thanks for your encouragement
Submitted by confused60 on
Dear Lonelywife40,
Thanks so much for your reply, I truly appreciate it. For me, it was perfectly clear when I read the materials on adult ADHD that I had nearly 90% of the hallmarks. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the stack, nor the dullest, and it was shocking how well I fit the mold. I do and say some really stupid things that afterward, I shake my head and ask now why did I do that? And there is no rational explanation. I ignore her and hyper-focus and on and on...
I spoke with my wife yesterday about getting her own place to live and she was pleased about the prospect. I don't know how that's going to work as it takes a 3hr plane flight to get where she wants to live. I only have so much vacation and, well, this spells the end of us. Oh, I keep forgetting - we're already ended. I do want her to be happy in life even if that means I lose her. That's why I encouraged her to explore her feelings for this other man. Marriage should not be a prison.
Thanks for the book references and your kind words.
Matt
How can I fully take a step
Submitted by WantingBetterFo... on
How can I fully take a step back and see what I need to do when my spouse isn't trully willing to do the same in her life? I know that I am no saint and I probly cause the majority of the issues due to adhd. That being said, where does it say the non-adhd spouses get to be mean and hateful and use our adhd as the excuse for it without apologizing? As you can probly tell I am besides myself with frustration. I get it from all directions, and worse from the ONE direction I need it least I get it worse. I want a better life more than you can imagine. I want to go even a day without a fight. I long for the day that I can take my wife out for the WHOLE day and just enjoy each other. Don't misconstrude my frustration over my situtation as an unwillingness to try. That is not he case. I just want to get along with my wife and enjoy our time.
Please help!
Wife in your shoes
Submitted by KCBLive on
Advice for non-ADHD spouse whose husband left her?
Submitted by lostintranslation on
We are separated now. We agreed to co-parent. We are 33 yrs old. Our marriage lasted for 2 yrs. Those 2 years have taken us to twists and turns, ups and downs similar and at the same time unique to the stories told in this website. Now, it's been an 8 month long process of separation. I will date it from when he left home, (2 months after I had just given birth) to the reading of his letter (titled "final copy") in front of the mediator a couple of weeks ago. He was diagnosed with ADHD last month. Members of his family have the same characteristics, with one brother being medicated since childhood. I think he is still in denial of the ADHD effect in our relationship. I have been told that I am still in denial of my actions leading to the marriage ending. That's why we're separated?
I need to move forward. Upon reflection, we both pushed each other away - far far away, beyond the boundaries that we even knew existed. We are 2 broken souls on the mend. In the relationship, there were: drug, verbal, physical, emotional, psychological, financial, and sex abuse. What is acceptable and what isn't? Really, we should have taken that pre-marital course before committing. In my mind, we became the fighting children - subjects to my mother in law. And when she's not around, I slipped my feet into her warm slippers. Sadly, in the repeated process, my motherhood and womanhood felt like it was taken away from me. I was too naive and trusting, desiring to be the best wife, the best daughter in law. It's evident that I am still grieving my mom's passing (6yrs ago)? I didn't know about adult ADHD and it's genetic factor at that time. I have to talk to my ex-mother in law with a mediator present just to get stuff off my chest.
We didn't know the effects of ADHD on marriage while we were married. I still have to read the book "ADHD effect on marriage" (and looking forward to learning). I have been an emotional roller coaster being pregnant for half the time we were married. Here in Spain, we gave the marriage another try, a "leap of faith" to accept each other for who we were "then", it failed, barely made it to 24 hrs. We pushed each other so far away now, that we have lost love.
I have been angry and still working through the resentment. I demanded: commitment, accountability and consistency. I see now how unrealistic those are. Our main conflicts revolved around household chores, finances and personal "freedom" (time-out for personal development). We were premature parents. Our transition into parenthood was having our first baby in an incubator for her first 2 months. From that experience, I dread breast pumps. From that experience, I think he had to prove to be a good provider sooner than expected. He's been struggling to get his business off the ground for 6 years now. It sounds like he's come to terms with dealing with his business' finances.
Will there be reconciliation as husband and wife? Or divorce? What is best for the children?
I know that a 'family' can take many shapes and forms. My recent transition into single-motherhood has been not too bad. It's tough flying halfway across the world to finish my Master degree and be a mom and student at the same time. I struggle. I have friends and good memories here. We deserve to be happy, together or not.
Thank-you for providing a safe non- judgemental place to tell stories of this kind.
With love from Spain
I am recently seperated, the
Submitted by Hermie40 (not verified) on
I am not an advocate for quitting marriage because "it's easier" or because "something/one else can make me happpier." I believe in lifelong marriage even when it hurts some. After 20 years I can say I've had wonderful times, and also challenging times, but nothing compared to the last two years of hardship and defeat due to ungreated ADHD and its effect on our marriage. I don't have kids, but along the way I've talked to a many people about their marriage experiences good and bad. Without exception, I never heard one of them, or their kids, say that the kids were glad the parents stayed together for the sake of the kids.
Each person's situation and threshold for tolerance & patience are different. No one can tell you what to do exactly, but we can share our experiences which can help you see other perspectives and weigh them according to your own circumstances. Good luck on your journey.
Read your own words
Submitted by js on
you demanded commitment, accountability, consistency....aren't these what we all expect in a marriage? Those should be "expectations", not demands.
Do what is best for you. I can say having been separated for 5 months, it was the best thing for me. I did not want it to be...but it was.
thanks for pointing it out.
Submitted by lostintranslation on
thanks for pointing it out. maybe they started out as expectations then later became demands. they came up in the context of having a second child. i was close to having an abortion, and needed some level of commitment from him to carry on with the pregnancy. it was a tough decision and i knew that i was risking myself in becoming a single mom of 2.
Needs
Submitted by js on
Your needs were not being met. If he was not committing to meeting your basic needs, you need to set boundaries. I can tell you from experience--I was a single mom of 2 IN an adhd marriage, and I am now a single mom of 2 OUTSIDE of an adhd marriage. It is far easier outside of the marriage because I am not always waiting, hoping, or expecting someone to help me meet mine and my children's needs.
Who initiated the separation?
Submitted by lostintranslation on
Who initiated the separation? And how did you move past anger?
Yes, each person's situation and threshold for tolerance and patience are different. I walked out on the marriage many times with every time being 'lured' back by the charm and motivation of keeping the family together (or was it my naïvety?). In the end, it was he who eventually walked out. At that moment, I believed, he walked out on no one but himself. He felt defeated and could no longer continue his role as my husband and ?father?. I don't want to make a big deal on who walked out on who first, but I will a little bit. I am still having a hard time getting over the fact that I told him 2 weeks before he walked out that I had had enough and wanted to move away with the kids - giving separation a try for at least 3-4 months, NOT living together. I didn't physically move out right away (which had been my trademark in past relationships), wanting to smoothen the transition for the kids. I was trying to be responsible. So he beat me to it, and I didn't even get the 'satisfaction' of fulfilling my gut response. Until this day, I am still the one at fault, the one who hasn't changed, can't move past anger, setting a bad role model for the children. I don't just get these judgements from him. I get it from: our past marriage counselor (whose only line about ADHD was that it makes them 'hard to settle'); family (it boils down to my choices, deal with it, loosing my temperament is unacceptable); mediator (who suggested IN-house separation for the kids' best interest); and his mother (who insist that there is something wrong with me and probably maintains that to this day). Do I need permission to be angry? I am starting to think there IS something wrong with me - to have been able to tolerate a lot of the things that happened. I don't know how some of you in this site have managed for so long to stay in the marriage with ADHD? I still have a lot to learn. In love, I was the hopeful fool in this case. Or maybe it's more the feeling that my love was 'unmatched and unreturned by the world' (Gilbert). K meant the world to me. I have done personal research & analysis to self diagnose me with a list of things already, even prior to meeting K. And I was open about them, showing K the list of my nuances and tendencies before any talk of commitments. I did not know he was hyperfocusing. I'll go get a second (now 4th) opinion about my findings just to be on the safe side.
I am not very good at standing up for myself, or stating my needs. Living with untreated ADHD symptoms really pushed me to be stronger in these areas. I have problems owning up to my faults and wrong doings in the marriage(?) And forgiving injustices made in the past. Thus the resentment. There is that book I am curious to read mentioned in this site "The Dance with Anger". I hope it brings some good ideas to help me cope. I need ideas. It is hard for me to accept his apologies, as sincere as they are. Perhaps it is because of his and his family's denial on ADHD effects on other people. Perhaps it is because I am in denial that I picked someone with untreated ADHD to be the father of my children, and now I have to live with that choice. Maybe that's why you find me here. I need a better understanding of ADHD and marriage as a whole. I also need support and understanding, in knowing that I am not the only one going crazy in trying to find a solution, resolution, a bridge. I've been skeptical about marriage until I read the book "Committed" by E. Gilbert that changed my perspective. Below are quotes I liked from her book (not sure if nincompoopery exist in the dictionary).
"Marriage is not prayer. That's why you have to do it in front of others. It's a paradox, but marriage actually reconciles a lot of paradoxes: freedom with commitment, strength with subordination, wisdom with utter nincompoopery, etc. And... you have to hold your wedding guests to their end of the deal. They have to help you with your marriage; they have to support you if you falter."
"Marriage has a bonsai energy: It's a tree in a pot with trimmed roots and clipped limbs. Mind you, bonsai can live for centuries, and their unearthly beauty is a direct result of such constriction, but nobody would ever mistake a bonsai for a free-climbing vine."