Hi..I am new here.
I have a great deal of experience with adhd. Most of my family has it (mother, brother, aunt, cousins, grandmother), and my daughter also has it. I have, however, never been in a relationship with someone who has it.
I have known my boyfriend since childhood (we're both 33). Allthough our romantic an intimate relationship is new. There has also been a significant amount of years with no contact (both have had long-term relationships, we have kids etc).
I love him, with no if's or but's. He is the most amazing man I know. He is just...everything. And most of his adhd issues, I handle well..as he does. He is not oblivious to how his behaviour may affect others. What I struggle with, is when he shuts down. He has these periods where he is angry all the time, and his way of handling it, is shutting the world out..that also includes me. The thing is, we don't live together..so when he does this, I feel so insanely alone. And it triggers my issues with fear of abandonment. It also triggers previous experiences from an abusive relationship, so I just feel scared..the result being, when we talk..I crawl, and please, and stroke, which annoys him.
I know this has nothing to do with me. I know this is his way of coping. I know how his mind races. I know he is jusst trying to do his best.
How do I talk to him about this, without him feeling attacked? How can I deal with this, so I don’t feel so hurt and alone when he does this? How do I support and help him through it, when he so clearly does not want me to address the issue?
And no, he is not on any medications.
Please tell me more
Submitted by BigSurprise on
Hi Maya,
I'm glad you're here.
I don't have the whole picture, so it's really hard for me to give any specific advice, knowing it can do more damage than good. But you're here, and I hear you need help, so I'll do my best.May I ask you this, because that's what struck my attention: when you say he's everything, is this just a figure of speech, or you really feel that way? Because regardless of how important our relationships are for us, there's much more to life than just that. This, combined with what you've written about your fear of abandonment and the previous abusive relationship, makes me wonder if you're not falling into some pattern of obsessive thinking. And this might have a lot to do with you.
Just for the sake of me understanding you better, what do you think would happen if one of you broke the relationship?
Oh no no..
Submitted by Maya on
Thank you for your reply.
No he is not abusive. At all. He is the kindest man I've been with.
I have, however, been in abusive relationships in the past which is why I easily crawl. If our relationship ended, we would move on. It would break my heart, but I would move on.
When I say he is everything, I mean everything I need in a man. He is a good listener, loving, he is interesting, he takes care of me, he is a really good man. I just get so triggered by silence, since it has been used in my past as a way of controlling me.
The thung is..he NEEDS to withdraw sometimes, so I need to find out how to cope.
Maya,
Submitted by BigSurprise on
Maya,
Yes, I know you didn't describe your current relationship as abusive. I said clearly: "previous abusive relationship". It didn't occur to me to see your current relationship as abusive. Well... until now.
He has periods when he does some things that are hard for you. He shuts down. not caring about how you feel. Did you tell him how you felt? How did he respond? It seems like there's some trauma from your past in you that affects how you see his withdrawal periods. He needs to know it makes you suffer. Only then you can start working together on a solution. Because maybe he doesn't know how it affects you?
Even now, you get so defensive on his behalf. He's a grown man. He can speak on his own behalf, if you let him. Hopefully, he can understand your feelings. He might not be trying to control you, he's probably unaware of the impact his behavior has on you. But it feels like you're falling into submission anyhow.
Hope I'm making myself clear, I really don't want to disturb any balance. Just trying to understand your problem.
Maya................Withholding and Avoidance
Submitted by kellyj on
You could be right in that he is not overtly abusive.....but a pattern or withholding and avoiding and the impact it has on you is abusive to you even if he is not doing it intentionally? And this getting "angry" and staying angry...could be him, trying to manipulate you ( unintentionally ) even if he doesn't even realize this is what he is doing? Keeping you off balance is one means to control you? Avoidant personalities....are avoiding "pain or discomfort"...as their inner unconscious goal. Withholding by itself...as a tactic is abuse. The silent treatment as a tactic...is abuse. It is abuse, when it hurts you and you feel hurt by it? In essense, a person who has this pattern of behavior....is trying to protect themselves from pain or any suffering and quite possibly, they are only concerned about "how much they hurt" and can be very self absorbed in their own pain.....not yours.
And in order to avoid their pain or feeling pain or discomfort.....they will set it up where they never have to....which means you are the collateral damage here, even without intention directly? The problem with this comes from learning over time, that if they do what they do......you will do what you do? It is on a subconscious level.....but none the less.....they have learned the art of manipulation....and if they "do this"....."you will do that". I say "jump"....and then, "you jump". I feel hurt by you.....I will hurt you back and make you hurt sooooooooo.............you won't do that anymore. See what I mean? So if you understand the goal or internal need "not to feel hurt".....then anything they do, not to feel "hurt" is what they will do? And by training you....to "never hurt them"....they are hurting you in the process....in their own avoidance of having to feel "hurt". If that's the unspoken goal......then if you feel hurt and they use that against you first.....so you won't hurt them , by using the "worst thing you could do to them" as their means to "punish you" for "hurting them".....then this is what they are doing even if it's only subconscious and they are not aware of it?
Think of it in terms of "punishment and reward". They are "punishing you"....for some perceived "hurt they experienced".....in order to "punish you from doing that again". If you think about it that way.....then it is abusive to go around "punishing people" and or you......every time they are hurt or they don't like how you "made them feel". As they see it....."you made me feel this way"......so now "I punish you.....I am punishing you and making you pay, for hurting me,"
And in turn, if you "jump"....when they say "jump".....their reward is in the knowing that you just got punished and it worked. So in this type of system of reward and punishment.....you are on the receiving end of the "punishment" and they are on the receiving end of "the reward" and what they get out of manipulating you and getting you to be their "puppet" like that? It is what they are doing after all? Pulling on your emotional strings...and playing you like a Violin? You could say it is "with purpose"...even if it's not "on purpose". The purpose is to "punish you"....and that is abuse no matter which way you choose to look at it?
And yes, he can and may be all of those things you say he is, but if this is his pattern and way to get what he wants from you....then he's also an abusive person since this serves him and his purpose...of avoiding pain and discomfort...at you expence. You aren't just "collateral damage" simply by being in the same room with him. It is directed at you....indirectly speaking. It does have everything to do with you and what "you did"...or what "you didn't do"....to protect his feelings...and make sure he never gets hurt? And the MO or method in order to make sure he's "protecting his feelings at all times" which means.....he will punish you, in order to keep you in line? The way he will do that, is by hurting your feelings and use that against you in order to pull on your strings and use that as a weapon against you?
All I can say having a lot of experience with this is.....do not "reward him"....and then there is no "pay off". That means you have to find a way ...not to be hurt, and then there is no reason to punish you since he gets no reward from doing that?
In a humorous way, to paint this picture just to show this dynamic in play ( just an extreme ridiculous look ) at what happens when there is no reward for someone like this? Just to paint a general idea....of the dynamic itself and what the motivations are? I think you'll get the idea....of "what to do"...and "what not do do".....under these circumstances? If you tell him these things hurt you, and he won't respond or it actually gets worse....you might look up "Avoidant Attachment" and apply this extreme version to it just to get the general idea of why it is abusive even if it's not "overt". Someone who gets something out of "punishing and hurting others"....is really not going to care if your feelings get hurt. In fact....it's what they want, it is the reward they get from knowing that you paid a price...for what ever indiscretion or trespass you did towards them.
Think of this way? What ever it is that they do to you.....is the :"worst thing possible"....that you could do to them? That's how you can tell what "you did to them"....since they will "do it to you back" ...so you won't to that to them again as a means to punish and manipulate you, into staying in line, and never doing that "thing again".......which is simply abusive. It is controlling...and this is what they are trying to control. Definitely.
Little Shop of Horror movie clip:https://youtu.be/XB7R0ZxNgC4
Good points, J.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Good points, J.
You Might Find This Validating.......PoisonIvy
Submitted by kellyj on
My wife left today, as this is her vacation from work which she was really pushing earler a couple of months ago, to go on vacation right now but I was dragging my feet since what she wanted to do was not in keeping with what we had going on together plus.....she was pushing for her brother to come along? She always wants her brother to come on vacation with us and last time with the houseboat, that was kind of a disaster and I was not going to repeat that again plus.....why does her brother always have to be included and what is so important with him being there? I told her so and a few days later, accused me of "not wanting to go?" I said " I never said I didn't want to go on vacation, I said, I wasn't sure about what YOU decided YOU wanted to do plus, I really didn;t want your brother coming this time since there are so many issues with him and all his health concerns...it's almost like you are his mother and need to take care of him? The fact is ( and he's told me so ) that he is afraid to speak up to you in fear you will go off and have a hissy fit like you did on the house boat? He really doesn't like it when you do that but as he told me " I'm not saying anything, I will not say anything to her" and he is adamant about that? In fear of what you might say? He doesn't need a mama you know, he's a grown man and he's told me privately that he hates it when you :"think for him" which is what you do? And this thing where you say, that he;s the only one who understands you and the only person in the word who knows you that well? As you've said, that you fear when he dies then you will be all alone?"
So where does she go ....first thing and first chance to go anywhere on vacation? To go be with her brother....."the only person in the world who understands her?" I understand her just fine.....she doesn't understand me, more to the point? And when her brother is there.....she get very hostile towards me? She "teams up with him" and I feel like I am the enemy? She will always take her brothers side in everything. She will always feel sorry for her brother but never me under the same circumstances. There is an extreme...double standard happening and she Loves to triangulate between her brother and me which I normally shut down imedieately and just call him directly and cut her out of the loop. I never let her do that...and I always call her brother and verify everything she says and talk to him directly and not let her interpret or triangulate between the two of us. The fact of the matter is, she feels sorry for her brother, and her brother "needs her" to feel sorry for him. Sympathy, is the medium of exchange and a lot of feeling sorry to go around there for sure? As soon as my wife, didn't feel sorry for me, is when she got hostile since I didn't need her anymore.....that is, to feel sorry for. My usefulness or her attachment to me, stopped when she didn't;t have anything to feel sorry for. She can always count on her brother for that? And straight to his house she went...first thing.
I just thought you might find that interesting since...your H, first thing, ran home to his parents after he left you which to me, is the very same thing as it appear and as it comes across to me?
Interesting isn't it?
Omg..
Submitted by Maya on
Ok..first of all...american is not my first language, so maybe I am expressing myself poorly, or something gets los in writing. He is NOT abusive. He does not withdraw to punish me. He is hyperfocused, and frustrated because he has been trying to fix my car for two days and he is in that mode people with adhd comes in when they are doing something.
But BECAUSE my EX used this as punishment, it sends me spiraling into worry. Because I have abandomentissues triggered by my ex.
My boyfriend is the first person I've been with who actually puts my needs first. That is why, I cannot tell him this, because then he will feel guilty and try to cater to my worries (i couldn't find the right way to explain it) and I don’t want him to do that, since this is MY issue.
What I would need, was for someone to say: This is normal. It will pass. Or to share how they deal with it.
but I see now, that I am in the wrong place for that, as I've read other posts around here. I am sorry many of you are struggling with your partners, I am not. I am trying to find out how to make our relationship stronger. And how to deal with our challenges.
Maya, I don't think your
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Maya, I don't think your boyfriend's behavior is abusive. But I do think it's a problem if you feel that you can't talk to him because of how he will react (feeling guilty, etc.). So, while the previous abandonment might be your issue alone, the fact that your current boyfriend is, in essence, forcing you to take the topic off the table is your and his issue, and it's one worth working out with him.
Maya........I Can Speak From the Place You are Looking For
Submitted by kellyj on
My comments to you were only taking one possibility, but as you are aware of that and you are really talking about this well known ADHD "thing"...the "hyperfocus" that is so common and yes.....I do it too, here is what I would want someone to do with me ( assuming he is aware of it and aware that he does this ) which would be the case with me as well? This dynamic you are mentioning, where you are reacting yourself to this is really difficult to give advise for you on your end...so from a compassionate place, I think it is really important to say exactly what you are feeling and now it effects you? Having an open conversation about it if he is open to it, would always be my first choice and what I always want? Direct and not beating around the bush but done in a non judgmental way so I can see or hear what it is like for the other person I'm with? For me, which is almost the extreme opposite of my wife for example.....she "doesn't want to talk about anything that has to do with her, or how she is creating a problem or heaven forbid.....doing anything to hurt anyone else? Her problem is simply denial.....but denial is different than just not realizing, getting lost in hyper focus and how that is effecting others?
I think..if there was one take away point or one really important point to drive home and I mean not hit him on the head with it, but gently let him know, that it;s not just "this time"....or "that other time" and using only the worst times that you remember and trying to down play it as if it only happens these very few times. If he is unaware of how often he does it...and you are only sighting the few times it really hits you or bothers you, he will think...it only happens or has only happened at the few times you mention? If you stop and think about this......when I go into hyper focus mode....I tend to tune other things out? This is not personal to you or any other "things"....it is merely a means to focus and concentrate and filter al those unwanted or unfiltered thoughts out of my headl..so I can focus on the task at hand. In a nut shell, that is what is happening so there is no need to take it personally, even though it does affect you?
The best of all worlds for me, if someone were to come to me and tell me....or even tell me for the first time that I am neglecting them and making them feel abandoned.....is to simply say that straight up without becoming emotional, If you can stay objective ( which I know is hard because it is emotional ) and not make it about how badly he is hurting you or how badly he makes you feel when he does this, I would say it to him directly, not beat around the bush and be fully honest with him BUT......I would move right along past the initial "letting him know he does this and possibly more often than he is aware of" and maybe give him one good example like you are saying ( and perhaps after the fact not right when he;s doing it and when you are actually feeling ababandoned yourself )....and wait until he is calm and things are going well....and then tell him that, but then tell him what you just told me? Tell him exactly what you said...and how this will make your relationship stronger because when he does this, it does make you feel disconnected.....but also saying that you realize that this is part of having ADHD....and that's still Okay with you?
In fact....if you told him and let him know and ask him if you could come to him and let him know when he does it without criticizing him and more just "matter of fact" but still letting him know how important it is to you, that you can come to him and let him know or talk to him about it as needed? Just to give him the heads up when he does it which would help him become more aware? If someone were to come to me, and do this with me, and then say...."I don't care if you have ADHD or not....I still Love you anyway and I just want us both to be happy and this would make me very happy if I could let you know when I need some connection or attention from you? If you could that do without saying or expecting him to "stop"...and never go into hyperfocus mode and never do this again ( like it's the end of the world, and the end of your relationship....do or die....or else? If you could just let him know...and and make him aware...and leave the rest up to him?
If someone actually came to me, and said all those things? I would follow them to the ends of the earth to my last dying breathe. No one has ever done or said those things to me.....and if they did, they would be the first and only ones who ever did it that way or said...."And I still Love you, and I don't care that you do it......I'm not asking you to not have ADHD.....I'm only asking if I can make this better and this would make it much better for me. Please"
There is no punishment there for sure, and there are no "if you don't, then I can't be with you type ultimatums in there at all? In fact....you are saying by saying this to him....."I know you have ADHD, and I still Love you anyway. Please do this for me and do it for us so we can be stronger and happier together"
I'll betcha....he's never heard that one before? And if you were the first and the only one to be that gracious and accepting and not make him "pay" with any negative reinforcement....then you'd be golden, as they say. Just my two bits and my "if only....wish list."..that no one has ever done with me before and I could only hope in my wildest dreams, for that to ever happen? That would be a gift....that he probably has never received before?
J
Thank you.
Submitted by Maya on
This was what I was trying to figure out.
We are trying to build our relationship on trust and communication. And I know I have to share with him how I feel, but I don't want him to feel criticised. See...he never judges me, ever. When I have days where I feel like I am the worst human being possible, when I am being a lousy mom or friend or anything, he just refuses to judge me. And it makes me feel like he is my safeplace, you know..and I want him to feel the same. But I know he will get upset if I am not honest with how I feel.
At the same time, I need to work on this by myself. So I need to tell him, but also reassure him that I understand it and that I don’t resent him for it. So thank you for your advice.
Some advice
Submitted by Heart's Desire on
Hi Maya,
My adhd husband withdraws often as well. I do take it personally, but that doesn't get us very far. What I've learnt is to let it go, and just let him be. If I feel lonely and need some love, I've started turning to Reiki (energy healing) and have done some training to be able to do that on myself. Reiki=love. Or, I'll journal and hold a rose quartz love crystal to help me through the pain. These are some suggestions. Kind of new-agey, so they might not be your bag, but basically, you need to learn to give YOURSELF love and care and attention and not go seeking it from him. Like turning to prayer and God if you're religious. Or the angels/saints. Whatever you need to envision to feel love from somewhere other than your partner.
I hope that helps!