Hello all, long time lurker here but first time poster. Up until a few weeks ago I was in a relationship for 5 years. The individual had been diagnosed with ADHD since they were a child. They were on meds but about a few months ago the medication stopped being as effective. Our 5 years together were great (not the first 2 years but the rest was). Or so I thought. Lately we had been going back and forth about progress in our relationship. After 5 years I was looking to get engaged and move in together. We had lived together informally for short periods before (during life transitions, apartment changes, etc.) and it was amazing. Throughout this relationship I was always proactive about reading about ADHD and researching various aspects and trying to make sure I was understanding what was happening. He would even joke that he felt like I understood it better than he did (of course not true since it is his personal experience).
Initially he was on board with the engagement and then this changed. He didn't want to discuss the topic. It coincided with his general anxiety building about changes at work and in his personal life. I was at fault because I kept pushing the discussion and instead should have respected him and given him space to figure out what was happening internally. At first I gave him space but then I brought it back up because it was important to me, I felt as though we were stuck in one spot since year 2. Over the past year he had a lot of built up anxiety and the meds weren't really working anymore. He asked me to help finding a professional in our current city so I researched and found a good psychiatrist and therapist in our city but it took him months to get around to seeing them. I was feeling like...if the issue for us to move forward is X, shouldn't we try and work on X? I wasn't very understanding.
But it is not as though we were fighting all the time. Our first two years were tough due to cheating on his end and we got into a bad cycle with arguments and such for a while there. I was unkind for the 1.5 year post-revelation. I wish I had been less cruel/mean in our fights after that. But when I made the decision into year 2-3 to forgive him and forget about it and never bring it up because he had truly evolved from that person who cheated on me, things got a lot better. However, he couldn't see me as a person who had changed. He constantly said that he was really afraid of us fighting and still saw me as that angry person even though he knew I was no longer. We have had amazing trips around the world, my family has accepted and loved him unconditionally, and we had built a cozy corner of the world for just the two of us. We saw each other every day. I helped him apply to jobs, edit even the most minor emails and texts if he asked me to (for example maybe edit email tone for upper management or something). We trusted each other's judgment a lot.
We had an argument one evening a few weeks ago (mentioned above). I regretted my tone immediately and tried getting a hold of him to no avail. I definitely overdid my attempts to get a hold of him. The next day I received a text that basically said while we love each other we are bad for each other and we make each other unhealthy and I cannot contact him anymore and he can't see me and that while he will hold the memories dear this is it. He said he was really struggling psychologically and emotionally. Then he promptly blocked me on everything. His mom texted my mom and said the same exactly thing and said that we both need to focus on healing and getting healthy. We are approaching 30 (age wise).
So, I guess I am now in a place where 5 years ended over a text. The dreams of us together and the 3 kids he wanted and the 2 dogs and the trips we had planned....all gone. My best friend, the closest, nearest, and dearest, my person who just got me and whom I held and loved unconditionally is gone. Yes, we had the usual procrastination issues in our relationship that led me to pick up the slack 70% of the time BUT I was happy to do it. Sometimes I would mention to him that I was in a place where I needed extra help but usually it was fine.
Can it truly be so final? That he will never reach out again even to just say hello or be friends or have a conversation about what went down? I don't really understand what happened. Why couldn't the end at least have been a conversation? I am in a lot of pain. Weeks later and I am still hurting very much. We loved each other very much. I have given him the space he asked for and have not reached out. I just can't accept that the years were so terrible and that we were in a downward spiral especially since just a month ago he had told me that this past year was amazing and our best yet. I will have to get in touch in a month or so because a lot of my personal belongings of great sentimental value are at his place but I might just have a neutral party do that so he doesn't feel like I am disrespecting his wishes.
I both want to respect his wishes but I also want to in a month try reaching out to say hello and ask how he is doing. No other questions. It'a tough to be so out of the loop on his health.
Has anyone out there gone through this? Perspective of folks with ADHD, have you ever ended things abruptly and then changed your mind? I don't understanding not letting me even say a word.
He knows something you do not....No ability or desire for change
Submitted by c ur self on
When a person is unable to move forward (commit) at age 30 there is reasons for it....Many of our spouses...(mine for sure) never has been able to keep her commitments and pre-marital promises...I want go through all the reason's for it....But just let me say when a person is fearful of what they might do....You better accept that and walk away....Look at what you have written here?....If someone else wrote this, what would tell them?? Would you tell them that they sound more like a mother than an expectant bride?? It's very easy to end up Co-dependent w/ people who live like your friend....It's no way to start a life...You deserve to spend your life with a man who is stable, who can hold a job, and share in the work of the relationship....Someone who would never be so disrespectful to not hear your thoughts about a 5 year investment....I understand you are hurting about this person that you care so much for....Just accept his reality, and move on....You've learned a painful lesson....You get what you see with people....I hope you can get some closure, and I think as time passes you will be able to count your blessings.....
C
The break up felt cold hearted
Submitted by nochangingnames on
He is very intelligent, professionally successful, compassionate, extroverted, super kind; I was always amazed at how much he *did* manage given his ADHD...I just don't understand how we got here where he couldn't even grant one conversation. I guess I am really stuck struggling because I wasn't given a chance to speak, or at least he could have brought me on board. It feels so abrupt. The rug just got pulled from under me and I am in a lot of pain. I am also feeling really heartbroken that the break up happened over a text. FIVE years and all I get is a text? And such a general+generic and formal text at that with no tinge of sweetness for someone who has held his head mid breakdown, someone who has held his hand and stood on mountains with him (literal and figurative), someone who has loved him unconditionally and forgiven him some insane things (he has forgiven me for my faults and mistakes as well and been there for me as well, he was a very emotionally supportive and present partner-cannot complain there). I have so much hurt and tightness in my chest and I have no idea where to begin a resolution. He seems to have a lot of anger towards me based on his text about "all the pain we have caused each other" and a few other statements about us not hurting each other and I don't understand it. It feels like he was in a different relationship than I. Yes we had arguments but I just didn't see us the way that he seems to have perceived these years. I wish he at least explained to me his side and brought me on board with this break up. I am just reeling and breaking and I can't seem to stop the spiral.
I am not angry at him at all, I am concerned about his health, the fact that he must be in pain, wishing I could be there with him, and also just hurting a lot myself.
Many of us here understand...
Submitted by Zapp10 on
Do not think we don't get what you are saying....it is called co dependency. Withdrawal from this is VERY hard. STOP focusing on him....YOU are worth more than you feel right now. Your journey will begin when you see this.....it is a choice that is totally up to you.
You are in my prayers.
Have you considered it's not about you??
Submitted by c ur self on
What if it's spiritual? What is his convictions about living married, when you are not? (If that was the product) Maybe he is under conviction to pull away from the relationship for that reason....There could be many things going on in his heart and mind....Don't presume that he views you as the problem....Many men are conscience driven, so facing ourselves in the mirror isn't about the people involved with us....It's about us...Our accountability to our own convictions....A weak person, or a person w/o conscience may look to blame others....But, all the good things you say about him doesn't project that kind of man...
His disappointments could be about his own actions....(They usually are with me).....Life is about Growing and Learning in all fascists....You will learn and grow in this also, if you look to.....
C
What to do about that wall of silence
Submitted by Chevron on
Hi, nochangingnames,
I'm so sorry that you're in the pain that you're in.
I once went through this kind of ghosting. That's what they call it these days, don't they? That someone fully in a relationship suddenly disappears completely from contact?
When I went through it, the silence itself was very unnerving. I didn't know what the silence meant. Like you, that silence led to me reflecting back on myself, which now, looking back, I don't think was the healthiest thing to do, although it's quite natural. If you don't know what set off an absolute break off, and the person who has initiated the breakoff is giving no feedback about his side of things, all you've got a) your self to rake over the coals and look at with a microscope; and b) guesses about him, behind the wall of silence.
I agree with C, don't jump to the conclusion that you made him do what he did; he may be dealing with something other than you doing something. You mentioned that he wasn't having an easy time with some other anxieties and worries, yourself. At any rate, you're bound to be somewhat or maybe completely off in scrutinizing yourself to find the failure in you that you can decide was the trigger of him ghosting you, precisely because you are not getting any feedback from him. He's gotta give you some imput, for you to know whether your guesses about your part of things having impact on him are right or wrong, and right now you are doing your worrying about your behavior in the dark coming from him.
For awhile, in the face of the absolute blank, I wrote, periodically, to him, but never got anything back from him. So any explaining, checking, any hi how are you had no effect on the silence.
This is something that he did, and he is maintaining, so I don't think it's going to be good for you to keep trying to contact him. It certainly never had any good result for me, as I dealt with the wall of silence.
Yes, the blackout is very, very painful.
The thing is, it's a blackout. It's awful to say, but it's a kind of a perfect, dark screen on which you can project anything from inside of you: your fears, your hopes, your illusions. But if you do that...I did at first and then figured out that I was basically having a relationship with myself, not with the guy who went total radio silence on me, and stopped trying to communicate and trying to figure it out. I didn't want to have a self-reinforcing anxiety relationship with...myself projected on that black screen of silence. (Edited to add: I just saw Zapp's post. I agree with her )
It's not what you want, but on the other hand nobody can make anybody do what they want, short of using force on them, and you don't want that relation with your SO, in any event.
I suggest, gently, that you accept the situation. Because he's maintaining what he wants to do...for whatever reason he is doing it. For any future that you might have with him of a good relation, you need to accept what he has chosen to do, now. When he's able to talk to you and figures out how to contact you, that's when the relationship can resume. Trying to force him now is just not the right thing to do, I don't think. Again, it did me no good to try to get the silence to stop by explaining myself, talking to the silence as if he were there wanting to hear what I said, or waiting and doing hi how are you. I realize that you love him.
I suggest, gently, that you taper off on the anxious thoughts about what you may or may not have done that set him off. He took the initiative. Clearly, he set himself off. Now's not the time to be on your case about something that he's not communicating with you about.
Finally, here's a hug. That wall of silence is such an odd thing. It's like a black hole, that you throw all kinds of things at, but you don't know whether any of them matter, and nothing comes out of the black hole.
Try not to interact with that black hole of silence too much. Best to accept that he's initiated and is maintaining his silence. Trying to force him to do other than what he chose and is maintaining I don't think is a good thing, if you two have more relation, later on.
Do your best, for yourself now. It's hard to handle anxiety in this kind of situation, I know.
Just anecdotally, I got ghosted by someone who didn't have ADHD, so as I read it, I don't see anything particularly ADHD about what he's doing with the silence. Although I'd be interested in hearing from people with ADHD whether they've ghosted anyone, and if so whether they think ADHD was involved in it. I do know that my dear husband with ADHD can get a load of anxiety and worries that piles up so high that it just fries him. Me, too, but I don't have to deal with ADHD, so I suspect that a person with ADHD handles a too much anxiety overload differently than I do.
Also anecdotally, the person who ghosted me did finally reconnect with me, a year and a half later. By then I had grieved the loss of the relation, had my face to face with myself learning what I could about it all, and had gone on. I had moved on by the time that the Ghost reappeared, hoping. That's no prediction of the outcome of your situation. Every couple is different.
Thank you for your guidance and compassion
Submitted by nochangingnames on
Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate your perspective, thank you for sharing your experience. I guess from knowing him as a warm and loving person and sharing our life for four years, this entirely austere shut off has been jarring. Makes me question what I missed. Yeah, I really need to stop projecting on the nothingness....everything. I guess his assertion that the relationship causes both of us pain and that it's unhealthy and hurtful is what makes me think the reason he is ending this is related to us. Except, like you said, he is unwilling to explain what he means by this pain and hurt: what he is referring to. How have I hurt him? What is the thing he seeks to forgive me and have me forgive him for? I have no idea what he means by this. I have not reached out since he told me not to. Of course, I write a million emails that I don't end up sending but I never send them because I agree, it would make no difference. I need to start practicing mindfulness but it's likely an effect of the codependency that makes me stay in this cycle because I am not ready to let it go, even if it's just the sadness because of the grief, the loss and void of not just him but all of our plans and preparations. Truly, thank you, I really do need to start being in the present and quit engaging with every emotion and thought that passes through me. You are all being so generous with your time and guidance, thank you, this is humbling and comforting in a moment where I feel abandoned. How is it that strangers can have more compassion than he...
Your story sounds familiar
Submitted by Mgrace on
Hi,
I went through something very similar just recently. Although I've been with my ex-boyfriend "just two" years, he meant the world to me. Partly because he demanded so much of my time I didn't have enough time for my friends. He was my best friend and the love of my life. What was worse in my case I didn't know he has ADHD so I didn't know what was going on and why he was doing the things he was was doing. He broke up with me three times, he changed his mind twice (by himself, I didn't force him). After the third breakup he wanted to be friends, so we agreed we would give it a try because we couldn't imagine our lives without each other. Suddenly he texted me he didn't want to see me ever again. I wanted him to explain it for me. Nothing made sense. When we were still together, he started having problems. Anxiety attacks. But firstly we thought it might be physical, not psychological. He went to the doctors, they didn't find anything. He was referred to the psychologist. After two months of waiting the psychologist told him at their first session that he needed to breakup with me finally, that I was causing all his anxieties (specifically the fact that he wanted the breakup but I was too dependent on him in his opinion... I would like to say something pretty ugly to the psychologist).
After the third breakup and after he blocked me from his life, I broke down. I felt like I didn't have anyone to talk to. I still don't know why I did the thing did but I went to see a psychiatrist. I had anxiety attacks, also problems sleeping, eating, just being at work (one day I sat on floor in my office and cried for more that hour). I didn't understand what happened. I worried a lot about him because I knew something was wrong. I knew that in the past he did similar thing to his ex-girlfriend but he told me that it was her fault (I guess it wasn't entirely her fault). The psychiatrist I went to is probably my favourite doctor in the world although I wanted to slap him the first time we met. He made fun of me, he was so intrusive, I didn't know what to thing of him. He made me laugh and somehow a little bit better (his tricks of KBT) and referred me to his colleague to therapy. He told me he was preparing an edition of translation of the book called Fast Minds and he wanted me to read it and help him edit it, to make myself useful (I do editing as a hobby as I told him). It took me a while to read it because I couldn't focus. At first I didn't understand why he gave it to me. But then it clicked. He "diagnosed" him with ADHD by what I told him and he chose to told me this way. Everything started to make sense. I know my ex-boyfriend got his diagnosis (by the same psychiatrist) and he's being treated. But he doesn't want to be in contact with me. It hurts, I'm a mess. When I think it's getting better something comes up again. I know it's going to take a while. I don't want to get back together with him anymore (it is a recent decision), I need time for myself, I need to make myself a priority because in our relationship it was him who was always a priority (I'm naturally a caring person so it made sense then). Every day is hard, I still wake up crying and angry and want nothing more than to talk to him. But in the end I respect what he wants. That's my way of showing him I love him.
One thing I really couldn't stand at the beginning was everyone telling me that it was for the best. Try to find yourself again because I know how lost you can get in this kind of relationship. Give yourself time. Make "what to do" lists, have a routine. If you need someone to talk, we're here. My psychiatrist gave a blue rubber band to wear it on my left wrist. Every time I think of my ex-boyfriend in a way that's hurting me I have to stretch the rubber band and give myself "a shock". It reminds me how much I'm hurting myself by my own thoughts and how foolish it actually is. I can't change what he's going to do. But I can stop hurting myself by thinking what I could have done better and how I could have helped him.
Focusing on myself
Submitted by nochangingnames on
You're so right, I really do need to focus on myself and healing. I am trying my best to practice mindfulness. Just wondering if, after all we went though together in those four years including the many ups and downs of severe ADHD, if...it really meant anything to him since he so abruptly cut me out. Every day trying to redirect my thoughts every time they go down a rabbit hole but some days are tougher than other. Thanks for the guidance.
What it meant for him
Submitted by Mgrace on
I guess I wonder about the same things as you do. Ten months ago my ex-boyfriend sketched his dream house and then made it into our dream house by adding things I wanted there. He told me he considered me family more than his real family (as I did). I believe that he meant it. That it was the most sincere thing for him and for me at that time. There was a period of time when I was really angry at him for how he ended our relationship and that he hadn't meant it. I almost hated him. That feeling was so frightening for me. I'm not like that. The pain was changing me into someone mean and hateful. And I don't want to be like that.
Today was full of downs because your story reminded me of my own. It reminded me that there's still part of me that misses him terribly and wants nothing more than to be with him. And I think that's normal and I have to accept it. We were happy for most of our time together. The last few months were really bad but I think I didn't realize it at that time. My therapist made me see some things he was doing that were destructive for me. I think it was thinking long-term that started his other problems (so called comorbidities) and then everything spiraled up.
Believe me, your boyfriend meant all of it at that time as much as he could, as did my Pece. I think he wouldn't be able to fake it, that it would be so much effort, that it would take so much planning. And those are things they aren't really good at, don't you think?
Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sending love and good faith your way.
Well wishes and strength
Submitted by nochangingnames on
Sending love and good faith your way as well. Someone told me "break ups are awful and he seems to be in crisis mode where he's cutting out anything that could make him feel unstable/any more pain and grief than he's already feeling." That gave me perspective. It also dissipated some of the anger that I was feeling towards him because it reminded me that this was a person with a lot of tenderness towards me who was likely hurting a lot as well. I guess at this point, all I can do is wish him well and focus on healing myself. As you said yourself, the last months were likely more destructive than I realized. Sending hugs and strength your way.
Hugs to you both.
Submitted by Chevron on
Hugs to you both.
I just wanted to ask how are you
Submitted by Mgrace on
Hi nochangingnames,
I just wanted to ask how are you holding up? Your story resonated with mine so much I feel the need to hear what's new.
Hope you're well.
My mistake response below
Submitted by nochangingnames on
Ah, my mistake in responding, my comment is all the way at the "month got worse, but I'll be okay"
Hi nochangingnames,
Submitted by Mgrace on
Hi nochangingnames,
in a few last months I wanted to write to you and ask how you are holding up. But loads of things were happening - both good and bad, more precisely brilliant and terrifying... My dad had a heart attack, but he is slowly getting better. I met someone and felt really guilty about wanting to move on one day in a very distant future... I quit therapy because it didn't make sense anymore.
And I made a really difficult decision. To let someone in my life again. He has experience with partners with various mental disorders. He is the opposite of my ex-boyfriend. But that's not why I completely fell for him. He is brilliant and he makes me happy in a way my boyfriend never did. Everything seems so easy...
But today I found a message on Facebook. From my ex. He sent me a link to some crappy article about perfectionism that it may help me understand what happened to him (and us). WHAT THE ...? (I don't want to be rude...) I knew that one day he'll do something like this but it made me really furious. Who gave him the right? And then he recommended me some books to read that could be helpful in making my life better and wished a better new year than the last one...
He broke more than six months of silence for this? Really?
Ex gave me unwanted advice too
Submitted by sickandtired on
My ex did the exact same thing! He thought he knew better about my new relationship, and continued his criticisms of my new life even after I was married! People like this have no boundaries, and just like their self hatred pours onto us as their partner, they don't realize they don't have the right to judge us after we break up with them and move on with our lives. He also had a huge obsession with why our relationship went south....after endless paragraphs autopsying every detail, he would inevitably come to the conclusion, that everything that went wrong must be all MY fault!!!
Don't get sucked back into the emotional dark matter of your ex
Submitted by nochangingnames on
Hi Mgrace,
I am so glad that you have found in you the courage to take a leap of faith on someone new. It means so much to read that. I have been struggling with my lack of trust of other people and my lack of trust in my own judgment about people that it has been extremely difficult to forge any sort of a connection. There is someone who is absolutely kind and open with their life, someone who is really ready to take any step I wish to take and yet...I am stuck in my cynicism.
In terms of my ex, he never reached out. When he found out my grandpa passed away, he didn't reach out. When he found out my mom was hospitalized, he did not reach out. 2 months ago I was in the hospital myself, took myself to the emergency room and it was there, sitting alone for several hours that his absence really floored me. We had sat just a few months ago there for him, and I had held his hand and been there every second. And now here I was, by myself, and it broke something inside me, something that connected me to him, something that was holding on to hope.
Now, with time, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I don't want his brand of chaos to throw the life I am working so hard to keep balanced, out of balance again. Your ex removed himself from your life in a very cruel way, regardless of the reasons behind it, reasons are not an excuse for cruelty. You said in your first post "When I think it's getting better something comes up again. I know it's going to take a while. I don't want to get back together with him anymore (it is a recent decision), I need time for myself, I need to make myself a priority because in our relationship it was him who was always a priority (I'm naturally a caring person so it made sense then)." The thing is, whether or not he is being treated, it may always be like that with him. My ex had been treated and seeing psychiatrist since he was 7 years old, and he still behaved in a cruel and callous way.
"And then he recommended me some books to read that could be helpful in making my life better and wished a better new year than the last one..." - He doesn't know you anymore, this is extremely presumptuous of him and really betrays that in actuality he has not grown because if he had, he would not have taken this self-entered view of the world where he know which books to recommend to someone he hasn't spoken to in months so as to make their life better.
You have met someone wonderful. Build something new. Water the things that have an opportunity to grow (pardon the terrible metaphor)-don't waste your time watering that which has already dried up and died: let it be in the past and move forward. Hurt people, hurt people. Don't get stuck in that cycle. I am sending you strength, and warmth, please love yourself enough to not let chaos back in. I sunk 5 years down the drain, and how those 5 years broke me really overshadows any good memories: I am in shambles. I don't want anyone to end up in this place hence my pleading to you to stay the course you're on of self-care and self-love.
There are good people out there, don't close up yourself
Submitted by Mgrace on
Hi nochangingnames,
I was stuck in my cynicism, too. I didn't want to meet anybody. I talked about it with my therapist and she was concerned about it. My current boyfriend is a friend of my boss and a long-time friend. She wanted to introduce us for a long time (she told him a lot about me), but I didn't want to when I was with my ex. But three and a half months ago, she insisted we would meet for coffee, the three of us. Then she excused herself and left us there. I was watching the man in front of me, listening to his every word, and thought "One day I would like to meet someone like him. He seems nice." I was afraid he would ask me out again. And he did. We wrote each other every evening, getting to know each other. I got frightened, because he made me feel something for him. It's going be three months tomorrow, we blamed each other for unwantedly changing our life plans. He has trust issues (not as bad as me), he knows lost and he told me he wanted to spend his life alone. He thought he was build this way (he was single for five years). He told me he had seen me a year ago and had wanted to say 'hi' really badly, but then he had realized that we were strangers. Before we started seeing each other, I told him everything. I wanted to scare him away. But he told me he admired this. I found someone like me, someone who gets hurt by people, not the one hurts who them. That's new.
Last week my behaviour was erratic and I was constantly getting scared by weird noises and startled by people. I didn't know what to do and I thought he wasn't getting it either. He stayed with me, he stayed calm, kept talking to me... I got some time of work and calmed myself down. I decided to block my ex the same way he blocked me. I don't want to hear what he wants to say. I don't have to listen to him anymore. I don't feel the need to wish him good luck. I have a new life he doesn't know anything about. I am happy and now I see how the relationship with my ex was destructive to me. Yes, it can be done, it is scary, but one day it will come. Don't be afraid of it. Let yourself be happy ;) And there's one thing I wanted to say to you. One day your ex might want to reach out, too. Don't let him in. He didn't give you a choice, don't give him one. As you wrote "And now here I was, by myself, and it broke something inside me, something that connected me to him, something that was holding on to hope." I know that, an experience like that changed everything for me. A month after I was sitting in a waiting room of a mammography centre alone (without anyone knowing I was there), I met my current boyfriend. With all this on my mind I told myself 'I deserve someone like him'. He's not perfect, he's as moody as any other man, but when he makes a promise, he keeps it. We take care of each other, we listen, our relationship isn't centered just on him and his needs (or mine). We're partners. We are in it together. I can see him as my future husband and father of our kids. With my ex, I wasn't able to image any of that...
I wish you the best. I wish you meet someone like my boyfriend who gets what happened to you. When you are prepared for it, of course. You can take time of relationships, but don't close yourself up, there are good people out there ;) Stay strong (I know you are, because everyone who went through relationship, like all of us here, is strong).
Timely topic for me, as well.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
After more than a year of dealing with the pain of having my ex bail out and take up with someone else very quickly... I am actually going on a first date with someone new tonight.
I am taking it very slowly and not going in with any expectations, it's more of a friendly date in a way, but it feels good to be moving forward. Even if nothing romantic comes from it.
I also booked a trip to Paris in the Spring, with a good girlfriend of mine. It will be my first trip out of the country so I'm nervous but excited.
I really like the aforementioned metaphor of watering that which is still able to grow. I'm writing that one in my journal.
Meanwhile, I found out that my ex's life is still in a very destructive state. Hard to imagine but it's only gotten worse since we parted ways.
It's sad. I do occasionally worry for him.. but overall there's more of a feeling of disappointment as in... "Well... I hope he figures himself out someday." I can only take care of me.
Hugs to everyone here and best wishes to wherever you are on your path.
Yay!!
Submitted by Kitty Jo on
Good for you! Have fun!
I can identify with you
Submitted by SweetandSour on
I can identify with you strongly - mostly because I've made some of the same mistakes! As non-ADHD partner (female) of ADHD male, I have pursued too vigorously when I've been shut out (fear of abandonment anyone?!). I have come on too strong. People with ADHD are very sensitive to criticism due to having lived a life full of it (including from themselves - feeling like they are "different" and "wrong" and like they can't make themselves heard or understood). ADHD is a disorder of executive function AND emotional regulation. The disorder of emotional regulation part is what I keep reminding myself of when my partner seems to over-react. He has told me that he is afraid of me and he paints a picture of extreme conflict in our relationship and extreme emotional reactions on my part that I don't perceive in that light at all. He frequently tells me that I'm angry when I know I'm not. I tell him everyone has some conflict in their lives. I think he "reads" other people in a consistently exaggerated-to-the-negative-side way and seems unable to imagine that they may be reacting to other factors in life besides himself. The bad moments we've had seem to stick out for him much more than they do for me and all the good stuff seems to disappear for him.
Because I've lived it and gotten hung up by it repeatedly myself, I'm advising you not to reach out when you think a reasonable amount of time has elapsed. You will most likely be rebuffed and then you will hurt even more. Your partner is telling you with actions that he has major misgivings about your relationship; I advise you to pay attention, because things won't get better - they may drag on and on, with short spurts of hope on your part, but in the long run you will be even more hurt than you are now. At your young age, you have plenty of time to recover from this break-up and you can use what you've learned about yourself (maybe that you pushed too hard or didn't guard your words when you were angry) to try again differently with someone else. I KNOW it hurts! It hurts so much. But you WILL feel better and you won't, in the long run, be happy with someone who isn't as committed to the relationship as you are - you will always feel rejected and it won't be the wonderful life you have been imagining. Don't beat yourself up. Your man was/is struggling inside himself. He is acting honorably by making a decision and sticking to it, and I know you feel like you didn't have any say in something that affects your whole life and that doesn't feel fair, but the bright side is: the decision to leave a relationship is agonizingly difficult and painful and you might have found yourself completely stuck and unable to get out; this way you're free and clear through no fault of your own and it may very probably be for the best. He did say you loved each other so you know you mean a lot to him and you know he at least "gets" that you love him. That makes your relationship a "success". Being broken up with really, really hurts, but to answer your question, can it really be so final? Yes, it can be, and if one person feels the way he evidently does (ADHD or non), then it should be - for both your sakes.
Thanks to All Who've Commented Here
Submitted by kellyj on
I agree, the perspectives and the kindness is overwhelmingly generous and right now especially, the guidance here is so relevant and easy for me to see. NNC's question directly speaking to me as the ADHD person......as too "Have I dropped someone off the cliff"...and then never talked to them again. The answer is yes.......but here's the reason why which will make it easier for anyone to see. This is my first hand account of this phenomenon and here's what happened. I might add ....this was when I was 16 years old, the same time frame when I actually dropped my first "short time girlfriend".....but we were an "item" and then......we were not. Pretty much. And since we went to school at the same time. hiding from her, avoiding getting cornered, or just completely ignoring here and not wanting to speak to her "at all".......was exactly what that was. As C -pointed out, sometimes, it';s a "conscious attack".....you are getting the "Super Ego" pounding on your head so badly you can't live with yourself. And basically......you jumped the gun too quick or "the gun jumped you".......meaning, this was the girl that "we both" lost our virginity's to each other, too......(lol) and then suddenly it got weird really fast and in a hurry. For me that is.
The best example of this is in the movie "Jerry McGuire".....and outside of that one line that's not my favorite....it's a pretty good movie and profile of that character. And the scene where Cuba Gooding Jr face's off with him and says " You're steal'in the pootie aren't you?" And then chew's Tom Cruise out for "steal'in the pootie" from single divorced mother's like his own for one? lol A) if your saying " i think I love you".....and that's as close as it gets......well that's about it? I think? Until you get there and go "uh oh"???? The "guilt" is overwhelming to the point that you can't stand yourself anymore for "pretending" and "living a lie". There may be shame in there, but not necessarily so....and here's why which is even easier to see here. This is not a up lifting story but it happened and I was part of it.
I was driving my mothers huge station wagon at the same time or there about's. I was giving a ride to 2 others swimmers home from swim workout and I was on my own street which has a long straigh away on it. People use to like to use it as a drag strip late at night in the late 50's and 60's during that time period to give you a better picture of it. And it was flat.....so it was perfect for gunning it and going fast......which happened all the time. So I put my blinker on and glance back ( remembering this important detail clearly ) and saw a VW bug behind me then I slowed and then cut the wheel hard to the left to go take my friends home and then "BAM"........everything goes to slow motion and it's like some surreal dream or out of body expereince...like you are looking down at the scene your in......but you not really there in it......it just 'happening all around you".....but not actually happening to you. You lose touch with reality as what normal reality is....and go into dissociative "zone" or "state"...and remember everything distinctly and vividly clear. I can still picture the video of this in mind as the motorcyclist hit the corner of my mom station wagon and I watched as he was thrown sideways in impact, then launched some 25 to 20 feet into the air...while the motorcycle started doing end over ends.....right into a little boy who was standing at the corner off his bicycle and he went down but his bike got tangled with the motorcycle as it kept going it seemed for ever....while the guy did a huge arching flight out of control in the air and landed on the ground and bounced a couple of times. And when I ran over to him past the little boy since he appeared Okay but crying and screaming......the guy started to get up and was crying "oh my God....oh my God" ...which right then a neighbor man rushed in and forced the guy from standing up and making him lie back on the ground. I froze.....and went into a dysphoric kind of "shock" and was just standing there turning around and around and I couldn't do anything. And then when the medics and a bunch of other neighbors came out.....the cut the little boys pant leg open...and his lower Leg "bone" was poking through and exposed.
Enough of the graphic details....the point was it horrific and you can see why. So what happened was simply as I said.......I was making a left hand turn....looked behind me, slowed down and I had my blinker on......the woman behind me in the VW bug saw the same thing independently when asked story....the motorcyclist, on impulse the second the road went straight decided to pass both myself and the VW and was going 70mph + and accelerating when it was too late when he saw me truning once he could see around the VW behind me blocking his view. He was horribly hurt and survived but to make matters worse.....I knew him from school and from early organizations outside of school ( Scouts ) and so I could say he was a friend although not a close friend I hung out with. And the little boy was Okay with the broken leg but man oh man....he wasn't laying there being a cry baby just from being scared what so ever. I didn't think that either but I didn't think he was hurt that bad at first. He's simply lucky to be alive without a doubt.
So, you would think I would have guilt or shame in that situation just on paper.....but to this day I remember feeling so obligatied and for going to see this guy in the hospital.....and I couldn't do it? I couldn't go see him even if it wasn't my fault because no matter how much it wasn't my fault.......I still felt incredible amounts of guilt that was so overwhelming......"I froze"....( click ) eeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr disconnect.
The fact of the matter was.....I felt like I had to take on some kind of responsibility for that even if there is nothing I could do to make that not happen and I did everything right. And there is nothing I could have done to stop it or make it not happen. But I still felt horribly guity and somehow responsible for all that happening on my watch? I was drving the car and was at least......one part of the cause and effect reaction that took place. But is was the weirdest thing though and I was really good about doing that kind of thing. I went to a memorial just to sign my name in the book, for a boy I sat next to who died and had some chronic illness and just didn't show up one day? And no one knew him. or even talked to him since he was kind of "crippled" looking.....but I did, and I spoke and talked to him and then he just didn't show up since he died? And that was earlier by a few years...so I was apt to do that kind of thing just because. But not that one......that one plagued me for years...until later....much later......( years later ) it kind of hit me that I was just ill prepared and ill prepared to deal, know what to say.....or even how to express my feelings I had after witnessing something so horrific and terrible....even if it didn't happen to me, and even if I wasn't the cause or at faualt. I was "without knowledge"....and "means".....or had the "awareness" and the "skills" I do know compared to then. And in varying stages......it evolved from there. That is, from age 15 to 18 year old time frame...or at least until I got out of high school to really start changing in anty dramatic way. College was the next step, and on from there.
Anyway, I was so racked with "guilt" I couldn't even be sympathetic to this guy who got so horribly injured that is still a vivid video in my head and that entire experience if I choose to as I just did. It wasn't that I wasn't sympathetic....or that I didn't feel deeply for this person......it was this complete overwelm and shut down and "freeze"....just make me "freeze" every time I would think about it? Or I get these horrible "hits" inside me of pain even to think about it. I bascially lacked the courage to contront it or face it...and instead just decided to avoid it or ingonre and it and just "make it all go away". in your head. Just "block it" out of your head and not let that into your thinking because it's too painful. For what ever reason......just to function and not lose control of your emotions which are going out of control and there appear to be nothing you can do to make that different or change it....right then in the moment when you called upon to do it. Later....it might hit you and then you can deal with it....but just like you said........it took a while to forgive him and you were not all that kind yourself until you finally were able to?
That motorcycle - car accident when I was 17.....was a powerful, powerful moment and memory and a very traumatic event in my life that I was directly part of. It become indellible and unchangeable, and there is hothing your can do to make it go away or make it so it didn't happen. It was an accident and two moving objects intersecting on a collision course and there was a cause but the cause is not really relevant after the accident already happened. Assinging "guilt" for "punative damages" for insurance or even the police......change nothing, and nothiing really changes especially since the person who causes it was punished the most and paid the highest price of all. I only heard but not specifics...but he had and still has if he's alive....many medical problems after than and for life. He was 18, and had already had a couple of other accidents previous that sere not as ad obviously. It's only to say again.....that "guilt" even then, and with all that evidence there to "support my innosense".......I still was too emotionally frozen..and racked with guilt I couldn't function or actually "function as I normally would." Not that time and there have been more like that. Not just with break up for sure.....but I think it's all from the same thing which amounts...with me at least......."emotional immaturity".....no "emotional resources or intelligence" and an emotional "overwhelme" response that made it impossible to deal with or know what to do? I always assume that people move past that place which I know I have......but not always true for everyone..and it depends on which stage you are in along the way or on that journey.
With me, just FYI........I only did that complete "drop off the cliff" without an explanation just that one time. I did do abrupt break ups...( one or two ) but at least I talked to them on the phone and gave them the time to do that difficult face to face in some form or another.......or later, do an apology to them as I did with my first girl friend. I do make it a point to do that later and get those off the books uyp stairs. But not everyone deos I guess? Depends on the matter of the guilt they have, their responsiblity...and if they can make a case or if they are simply too ashamed of themselves....for doing something knowingly was not a good or the were knowingly in the wrong and they did it intentionally and were actually aware of it..and did it anyway? That would be different and they've had to concede..........like Tomn Cruise "steal'in the pootie"...when he really didn't really know, kind of stuck on the fence, one foot out of the door and one foot in......not really sure and can't commit to anything except what he was doing ....do he "kinf of "Loved her on that "level" but couldn't go tot eh next step since he just wasn't ready. Since he was to self absorbed to think of anyone but himself and what he wanted with no reguard for how it hurt someone else but in the story at least....this gets resolved and he finds redemption and it has a happy ending and we all go home happy? Not so much in real life....but the story still shows this pretty well? You never know which one of these it could be....but it could be any of these...and possibly more as well? I'm just say'in.......it's probably in the realm or this ball park right here? From the ADHD perspective and my first hand experience with this but each one of these scenarios were different, with differing amoj nts or responsbility to go around, and different circumstances to apply the fame thing too? With differening results depending one?
I at least have a better idea now than beforel which is actually hepful for me to put this in some kind of rational sense.amd not take it all personally. I mean, I took on so much guilt and so much responsibility about that motorcycle accident....that I couldn't evemn move....and really....none of it was in that "one" particular case......but it completely blocked my ability to have sympathy or show it to someone I knew, who was hurt and would have benefitted from me just showing up. It wasn't expected or demanded of me, but I remember my mom did suggest it and I said no....and no one really held it against me edit note : My mom did of course ( for me and the family but.....not me personally the point, personally speaking ) .....but I did and I could get rid of that...and by the time I could, it was too late....and so it never happened and the guilt still remains to a certain degree...till this day. I can and did forgive myself for my failure.....but that was "my failure" and no one elses. That's the only thing I feel guilty for, but it went against how I normally was, and I didn't do what I wanted to do because I lacked the courage in that moment to confront something was toio distress causing....for someone else in that moment. Like I said....I've had plenty of those big and small. but that's the best illustration I can think of.....it males it easier to see I think? And that is the same thing now, so much of what we ran against was outside of our own control...but just how we managed that together and worked together as a team...( against what ever foe imagined or real ) that the object of our desire was each other and not something else? I mean, you can't be the ball....if your eye is on something else? That simply won't work or you'll strike out every time and I simply guilty of that as anyone else but simply not doing it anymore as best as you can is the name of the game? That is the problem with the "Letter of the Law"......it falls short and there are too many holes in it to hold water in every case. And it's not our case anyway.....if it is a personal problem then that's really not your resonsibility but only you know if that is true or not? You're the only one who can answer that question as I've found myself.
J
J
We've all been there in some capacity J
Submitted by c ur self on
I grew up w/ two brothers and just 1 parent....A great Mom that worked and done her very best to take care of us and teach us right....But I can tell you, from about age 14 until I got married at age 20 there were so many bad choices it's a miracle I made it to 20....
Many of my deepest regrets goes back to those times....It just makes me so thankful for what Jesus did for me on that cross....Because if I got what I deserved, there would be no hope for me....
C
And That's Just It .........C
Submitted by kellyj on
We all have made mistakes and then learned and grew from there. But if you never learned from your mistakes.....or you close your ears and eyes to what you've done from those who you done some harm to in your own nearsightedness or negligence..........then you will never grow or move from that place and are doomed to repeat that mistake again. But it's not always you, and bad things happen to good people who've done nothing wrong or nothing to deserve the penalty or cost for someone else's mistake. It is the same for everyone and no one is immune to this and no one is innocent of doing this at some point in time. But not necessarily the part of refusing to take responsibility and refusing to hear the "cries" of the person that is hurt and that you were the cause of that in some way? Simply "refusing" to "hear"........is refusing to acknowledge the other person as making them "invisible"...as if they don't exist or don't matter. The feeling that your just disposable, not important really doesn't matter "as much" to them...as does what ever it is that is "so important to them" at the exclusion of everything and everyone else.
No one, is not guilty of this as you say. But there is a time to move from this stage in life to a different one that is more "grown up" or "mature"....meaning "evolve" and lve as a goal, to a higher level of thinking that the one you used back then. The Prodigal son has to return home and use the lessons he learned from his mistakes someday....or stay out there still making them over and over...until he finally learns. And for some......"he may never learn" because his eyes are shut and his ears and mind are closed.
You can't "make someone" or "force them" into doing it. I think the more you try, the more a person is likely just to "dig their heels in" deeper. You have to allow it to happen on it own time and that is probably one of the biggest curses of having ADHD.
You know, I have much to be Thankful for...and in her way with all her challenges......my mother somehow knew what no one did...and she did the right thing when it really mattered. One of them, had to do with my birthday, which I was born right on the day....to determine when you start school or 1rst grade. My mother...could have put me in one year earlier.....so I would have been the youngest person in my entire class. Or she could have decided to do what she did...and wait one year and put me in then.......so I was officially...the oldest "legitimate" kid in my entire school class who was not "held back"....on going throughout all my school years . The curse of having ADHD for the person who has it, is being "behind" other people your age emotionally speaking. Emotionally.....but not in any other way. Which means for me.....I got 1 "free year" given to me in the grade I was in.....like a "Red Shirt" freshman football player....held back to get stronger and become more skilled and "technically".......held back to allow for the extra time to work, grow, become stronger and a better player the "next year" now having 1 year behind your belt, as a means to perfrom you best compared to your peers and the other players you are up against.
And honestly....self accessing myself as best I can put myself into? I was certainly on par with the "kids" one year behind me or would have fit fine even one more year back, and possibly 2 years would have put me "emotionally speaking" now in a group I might even have more. I wanted nothing more than to fit in..and to "grow up" and have the privileges that "age" does give you. But "age" has nothing to do with "maturity" and real maturity comes from wisdom, experience and knowledge and a willingness to want to grow and learn....which takes a lot of work and effort. It is part of the curse....to have to have to work harder at this, and it doesn't come so easily without so much work compared to other people. It's simply "harder" at time...and that is the curse. It takes longer and that's a fact. Longer for some more than others, but some day you have to leave that "person you were" and say goodbye to them, and become a different person in the process of doing so.
The moment, I left home at age 18.....in the span of those two years your talking about.....I made more mistakes out on my own in those first 2 ( or 3 or 4 ) years out of the house, than any other time I can think of? It is a miracle...I made it out of that time alive!!! LOL I didn't get married the first time until I was age 30...and thirty in comparison was more like 20 in my case. I've always been a little behind, but that gap slowly closed over time.... but it took me longer and more work and heart ache for me than for some that's for sure. It's just part of the "curse" of having ADHD.....but of course, there is the flip side of the coin as long as you take advantage of the positive sides and use that to your advantage. It really is a case to made for what "makes us weak, makes us strong".....and that is a miracle in itself. It can, if you learn to wield your strengths "wisely" and not waste them on trying to manipulate or control people.....so you won't have to do "the work". You don't "win" that way.......all you do is betray yourself and hurt yourself in the long run.
It is so easy to see when you can see the consequences......but refusing to take responsibility and being a "victim" to the ADHD means you never see or feel the consequences...which is what denial does for you. Denial and dissociation is simply a way to "disconnect" from reality and block out and disconnect to everyone close to you......in service of protecting yourself from the pain. The pain and the suffering and taking the brunt of you failure to do so.....which means you never learn, you never grow and you stay right where you are indefinitely. Or not.....depending on.
It is the "curse" of having ADHD.....but it is what it is......you can accept it or not?
J
This statement J, is the reality of many of our lives....
Submitted by c ur self on
You are right on the money in my view; we who do not learn (can't be taught and molded by truth) from our mistakes are doomed to repeat them!
but refusing to take responsibility and being a "victim" to the ADHD means you never see or feel the consequences...which is what denial does for you. Denial and dissociation is simply a way to "disconnect" from reality and block out and disconnect to everyone close to you.
The reason I got connected to this web site, (and you and many others) back in 2014 I think it was....Was because I was searching the web, to find out if I was the only one who was experiencing trying to live in some kind of peaceful way, with a spouse who's reality is your statement....I haven't left yet....Not over a week or two....
C
There Are Many Realities and Many Forms of Denial
Submitted by kellyj on
You know C....reflecting back now when I first came here, I was searching for ways and means to improve my ADHD symptoms, since I was very worried or concerned about them having the effect and results that I've experienced in that past, but in the past, I didn't understand "why"? Once you know why, you still have to "apply it" or the "apply what you know to action" and make it work.
You know, more than anything........I'm discovering all the reason I use to feel the way I do........but not anymore. I'm coming to the same junctions in the road...but each time I do.....I know, NOT TO go to the left, when I need to go right and vise versa, There is only one reason I know not to go left anymore and that's because I have in the past, and each time I did, I ended up feeling horrible or feeling badly "about myself". Sometime by my onw doing, and sometimes it was that "the entire house of cards" to the left ( road ) just blew up in every ones face and no one wins when that happens and everyone gets hurt, Or simply, you get sucked into or pulled down the wrong road by someone else and you just went along for the ride?
And that's it C....there are so many different kinds of denial and for sure, they do a good job of making you not see things. Ironic what is there to protect you can hurt you just as well? And I'm really feeling the irony in ending a relationship with someone who is more like me than she will ever realize? I do remember saying that somewhere on this forum and that was actually fine then. The irony that what we find we like the least in the person in front of you is the very thing you dislike or like in someone else? Not always but sometimes but it's the denial of it that makes all the difference in the world.
But dissociation.....that's a tough one. That's the one I'm really feeling at times right now and it is very disorienting. It is a good time to take y'all's advise and rest recover and allow myself to heal. It is part of the grieving process and denial is just one stage and it'll always be there waiting with some new to uncover. I really do appreciate it and all the help you've offered me and really right now more than anything else it's really got me through a tough one to have to go through alone. I didn't have to do that knowing y'all were here. lol Thanks.
J
So, new name, but you're
Submitted by Chevron on
So, new name, but you're still J.
Do take some r. and r.
Eclipse report: as things got dark, the birds in the yard got very quiet, and the hummingbirds started zipping around. We must have had a dozen of those little fighter pilots whizzing around over our head. This is the first eclipse I've seen.
Chevy
Submitted by c ur self on
I love that quote by Timothy Snyder you've adopted....Humbling reality :(
I've got a couple of bird seed feeders out on the back deck, and a humming bird feeder on the front porch...It's amazing to watch them....They are terriotoral....The bigger birds tolerate each other to some degree...But those humming birds LOL...There is one that tries to claim the whole feeder....Those suckers get after it....:)
I was on the beach w/o glasses, but some lady just came over and shared her's with me, so I got to see it....It was only 81 percent here at the beach in Gulf Shores AL...I remember seeing one in grade school....I think we looked at through a x-ray film or something (maybe I dreamed that)...:)
C
J
Submitted by c ur self on
It's OK to be vulnerable; (with our selves, and people we can trust) it has to be something I do, in order to be truthful with myself....J, you said so many wise and reveling things in the long version of this post...I'm on a short Vac, at the beach...I rode my bike 50 miles this morning, then set up my umbrella and sand chair got about 45 more minutes of sun, then drug my sand chair under the umbrella...Put my Pandora channel on some of favorite music (Ben Rector, 80" love songs etc...) and just loved on the breeze, another few hours (tried to not look around to much, flesh every where LOL..) And tried to work through your post on my small IPhone screen until I started going blind, so I had to jump down and hit the main points...LOL....
I can't type any words that will help you through the next few weeks and months....Except to point you to what you said in that post today...You see the path, so stay on it....
My trouble has always been forcing things because of my own zest for life; and my own inability to be patient....So learn from me!...Just be who you are, (we can't be anyone else, and shouldn't want to) and take one day at a time as the Heavenly Father affords them to you, and I suggest trying to live thankful....That's all I know to tell you....That's what I tell the guy in the mirror....Of course, I'm here for you!
C
Same here C,
Submitted by Zapp10 on
I came here a year and a half ago for the same reason. What I learned was MORE about myself!
In the end I know my H is a good person....so am I. We both need a bit of tweaking. BUT..... I no longer will stay in a marriage with unaddressed ADHD. I stayed 5 years too long as it is...
I will waste no more time TRYING to live in DAILY chaos. Better for both to live apart. Actually....his life will be peaceful as well. No one to have to talk to or listen to. I will not leave in anger. I choose compassion...for him AND me.
He is very aware that I am on my way out......but he doesn't say anything.....just acts like we are good and all is well. I refuse to initiate conversation about ADHD. His problem( as he says) so for me...that's an invite to leave the marriage and I am taking it and doing just that.
Wup, that's news.
Submitted by Chevron on
Wup, that's news.
Let us know how it goes, Zapp.
You've taught me so much.
I was just saying to a good friend this afternoon who is in the middle of her own hard times in her marriage and in her 60s, God wants us well. She and I are good friends, she's uncertain in what she believes, but accepts me as I am. So the remark went down fine with her, she knew in her own way what I was saying. So to you. wishing you well. I'll be looking in, to see how you are. It's probably too early to ask you where you will live or etc.
Chevron
Zapp....
Submitted by c ur self on
(I will waste no more time TRYING to live in DAILY chaos. Better for both to live apart. Actually....his life will be peaceful as well. No one to have to talk to or listen to. I will not leave in anger. I choose compassion...for him AND me.)
If you've read any of my posts the last few months you know this is almost exactly where I am also,...Except it's not about adhd per se for me... it's about refusal of ownership, (denial)....And the victim attitude that is always there any time she must address the simple daily chores that go along w/ a healthy marriage...Basically she hates the role of being a wife....at least she manifests it in her actions....
Unless she can change to Love what she show's such disdain for...What in the world are we doing together??....I'm not mad either, but if it's going to take her being able to live single (not considering my needs, or my feelings concerning her independent living) to be at peace....Then she needs to live single...I'm not staying in some kind of dysfunctional relationship where there isn't any openness and sharing....NOT me....I feel I've been very patient, even to the point of my own denial....
She has started swallowing the denial and facing this fact the last few weeks...She has been working on her attitude and it's so so so nice!....A husband or wife is not suppose to be unapproachable, controlling and unyielding...That isn't how it works....There is so much potential for us, if we both humble ourselves and live thankful of one another....It goes back to Chevy's simple comment a little while back....It's takes two doing the work....Bottom line...It doesn't matter how hard one works, or how much they want it....One can never produce a loving healthy marriage relationship....
We will see....
I sure hope everything goes well for you Zapp, you've been a blessing to me...
C
C and Zapp,
Submitted by BigSurprise on
C and Zapp,
You've taught me a lot and I really hope it all goes wll for both of you.
C, a lot of what you said in your post resonates deeply with me. I can live with the chaos and constant disaster. It's not easy, but I can. Denial... not so much. Especially since that denial inevitably leads to the blame game, and I will no longer be blamed for things I have no influence on. Right now, I'm still doing two people's work and getting blamed for it. But she also feels terrible guilt for not being able to make me happy. I know she does, and it used to make me feel even more guilty. But that's counterproductive.
I've been thinking along these lines too, recently: I'm trying so much to make her happy, and maybe she just needs to be alone to be happy.
Anyway, working on that. I hope I'll get at least where you are right now.
It's so nice to hear things are improving for you! They are, right? If I read correctly. Anyway, keep us posted. Keeping my fingers crossed for both of you.
Hey Zapp.......I Talk to You ( lol )
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm being factitious and I'm also talking to everyone else who responded here. I'm gearing up to "bow out" as gracefully as I can here since I've kind of come to the end of the "chaos" and "crisis" that brought me here. And with no doubt, it's a crisis on any level I can think of and I know where you are and I feel for you and relate with you both at the same time. Including everyone else here which is remarkable and really not that difficult now for me to express and really......if I did not share this with you, I would be negligent in all the things I've said here in the past. This is in any way you can think of......"on a spiritual level", and forgetting about ADHD or anything else you can name, it has to do with your own self respect pr how you feel about yourself ....not a selfish level but a spiritual one. It is the very part of you...for every "good" reason you can name, when you are asked the question and the answer is not the one you want..... yet you "choose" the one that you pay some price or cost in ....but in the long run, you do expect something in return and when the wait goes for too long....then it's time to stop waiting anymore. It is...being brought to the door...and you have one of two choices to make and I don;t know how many times I complained or moaned about "black and white" thinking and being very "concrete" as I moaned about. At face value.....that's what you get and that really is easy to understand? There aren't a lot of other options out there if that's what you think?
And the thing is, I don't get you think like that. Nor do I think anyone thinks like that? And I don't think like that more importantly.....but I can, when presented with the facts? I mean, I can think "black and white" if I need to. She was the one "initiating" these things and showed a "great initiative" in what she was doing....When I'm looking at "things written in black and white"......like phone records. Phone records don't lie.......and it's especially helpful, when the person trying to hide their phone activity, doesn't realize that "text" messages tell a better story than say 25+ minute phone conversations to people who are NOT me...first thing in the morning or every afternoon after work. Always right after she gets off work and many times with "pictures" being sent....."back and forth" before she gets home. Or.....first thing in the morning when she wakes up and the first "thought'.....on her mind....when she wakes up in the morning........when she leaves the house.........or when she gets off work before she comes home. Or really late at night after midnight or after she went to bed. It was right in front of my face with her phone messaging going off all the time and she had the "ring tone up" on loud I was becoming really sick of hearing the same message tone go off "so much more" than it ever did before. It was none stop and happening right in front of me but I trusted her, had no reason to think otherwise and ......I wasn't doing that myself......more important to the point.
It wa such a strange day yesterday and I was really feeling down and kind of reeling from the shock of all that I discovered. Going back to the end of 2015....and probably further. She must think, ...that 'text messages" don't show up on a record since the records show no voice calls to speak of........voice messages don't show individually.......but the texts tells a story that literally gives you a snap shot of their "thoughts"....."who" they are thinking of...and exactly "who" these people are and everything about them? I mean, all I had to do what join a "personal search" website and I got the story on everyone she's ever talked to in the last 2 years with detailed history and everything. I mean......we live in the age of technology.....how hard was that to figure out? And you get the "time of day" to the minute.....of every single one of "600+" texts she sent to men she was "hunting for".......until she finally found "one". Online dating sight that is. I don't even have to look up which ones or where she was....to just look at the record history at a glance...and within a matter of minutes....you see exactly what this person is thinking and what they are most focused on? And it started with a "group" or contestants...and it got narrowed down to just one.....who conveniently just bought a house in the area as of December 2016. And then see the entire story from there and who all the people are? And who here support group is. And how she is trying to divert my attention away from where or who she really is with......."where she really has moved to and who she is with".........and all her "friends" who are helping her do the deceit of it or helping her hide.
Recently is was mentioned as I recall...someone else here on this forum saying......that "they find someone who wants to "hear their story" of how they were "victimized" and they need someone to "help them". Because....."no one will help me....help!!! call 9 / 11 !!!"
So, for someone like this.....when push comes to shove......when shoved or pushed to the door.......they make a choice too. And in this case or my case......" a choice was made". I know when the "choice was made" right to the day. Almost the hour...in every case. Over and over....many times the choice was made. I have a record of all those "choices" each and every time they were made. With a map.....showing "exactly"......"who","what", "where" "when"and even "how"......as to "each choice"...and "who or what that choice was". Going back at least 2 years. Names, address's, e-mails, etc , etc.......... And of course.....I remember what I was doing at the same time...and what she was saying to me. At the same time? I call "BullShit " on that, parsimoniously.
And this is not to say, that I'm implying your husband is "cheating" Zapp. What I am saying.....that that D......obviously, was living some secret life...and not bring me in on it....from the get go. But this is it and where I can bring myself into this.......it's the "Big Lie".....the one you tell to yourself. D is operating still on the "Big Lie".......and the only person she is lying to is herself at the end of it. All these others lies....all fall under one umbrella... and that one is called "victim". She cannot see that in here frantic dash to avoid pain and suffering for herself....she is creating a wake of pain and suffering for others behind her and she cannot see it or will she look.
So look at this Zapp and I have more to share here about yesterday. Just for argument sake....lets just say D and I have ADHD so you got two ADHD people playing off each other. Okay, so I'm an ADHD person too...so that's how I speaking here. I was really not doing well yesterday and I was having a really emotionally painful day....especially painful all things considered having discovered so much of "what was not true....yet I had an idea.....but not so "stark" and so "concrete" that there is nothing else you can do with that? That is....."reality" there is no escape.
But then, I see a head poking over my curtain half down and I hear a knock or wrap at the door? And there are two "cops" there in uniform? And I'm thinking....."uh oh...what did I do this time? LOL " but apparently.....as they say " a neighbor called" and was concerned about me, since my lights had been on and my project outside has been untouched for over two weeks, And I really haven't left the house since I've been trying to recover from this and I've been "dealing" as best I can? And it's like....."why are you are here? Oh....to see if I'm Okay? That's odd...why would they do that....or better......WHO called you? That's weird? " Which apparently...was my neighbor or at least one of them? They won't say....but that was really really nice and made me feel so much better. I made sure to let them know I was not thinking of ending it or a danger to myself but that I was having a hard time with a break up and thanked them for their concern. Which was really nice.....and really made my day?
And then, I continued to go through things just to have a look while I still have it, and I ran across the "Anger Work Sheet" in Melissa's Seminar Course of D's on her computer that she never showed me or have have never read? Actually.....take it back......she did show this too me at the time....and I was not all that impressed but for the most it's true and she was speaking from her true feelings at "FACE VALUE" exactly what she feels and believes. It is her reality.....even if it's not mine and this is what it said..............( I'll come back and add it once I get off her computer ) but what she said in here own words.....was "worth it's weight in gold" as far as the value it had for me and it is absolutely true......every word of it right to the letter.
And here we have two people with ADHD together..and you all know the symptoms. On one side ( mine ) you have ....."making messes, cleaning up my messes, remembering or forgetting to do things I said or "promised" ( ERRANDS, CHORES, DUTIES ETC.... ) as she says ( no argument what so ever from me )...BUT , THE BIG ONE....THE ONE THAT BROUGHT ME HERE THAT SHE SAID WAS A DEAL BREAKER.........which, I found my way to "stop"......100% for quite a while. In fact, for over a year and 1/2....did I not have "loss of temper" even once.....although, I got mad and angry and frustrated plenty of times. I just didn't lose my temper or lose control of what I was saying ane there is a "BIG DIFFERENCE". The expectation, that another human being doesn't "get mad' at you for anything ever....is ridiculous, especially when you live with them and have a close intimate relationship with them. That...would be "un-heard of"...in a normal "healthy loving relationship between you and YOUR PARTNER"
But you know what? If you are having a relationship, with You.....and your partner, and all your partners friends, and you partners "other intimate friends", and everyone else that your partner is showing "you as" to the world and in front of your freinds as someone you are not....or unfairly making you a "point of ridicule" and how she described this in her own words........you have to look at this for what is is....and put it into context.
The most telling thing in finding this work sheet to me....was the last part....the part that went "unfinished". Where is says......."what are you doing about your anger and what are your actions steps and plan?".
All I can say for me is......."you're seeing it". LOL Pretty much. And all I can for D.....based on the fact, that the phone records went back to the time we took the seminar class together at the same time she wrote out the "Work Sheet" and everything it says.........and when I tested her for a test....just to see what would happen......and within 50 seconds of me leaving the last text......I see "Mr Wonderful's" number come up first.......the same one I found in the record going back to the time we took the class or right afterwards which was at the same time she wrote the "Anger Management Worksheet " out. And then she fired off texts....to her "posse" or audience" or 'coconspirator" friends....but really they are just "sychophants" or 'co-dependents" just like everyone else. Just like I was...until I stopped doint that any more? And right when I stopped doing that....was right when she started 'fishing" again.
I had my part to play, and I am responsible for everything I did wrong or my own failures.........but I'm not responsible for this.......'THIS" is neither my fault, or of "my doing". No one "made her" send her pictures out as an a potential offer of something they wanted? No one made her......betray my trust, and to "seek" someone else outside of our relationship. No one made her do anything in fact.....she would be the first to tell you that. No one is the "boss of me".......I do what I want. Or what I don't want and I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU FEEL OR THINK."
What it appears to be is this. "Mr Wonderful" or her next target.......just bought a house, after filing bankruptcy a few years agp apparently after a divorce and he has to grown children. He lives not far from here either which more than convenient plus, h is from or has lived in her old home town and the one next to it? As far as I know.....they have known each other from the past or from before? Thinking so. sh saved or has been continually sending things back and forth just to keep these guys on line in case. It is the program with these peo[le. Networking.....it's all about Networking.....by text so phone calls don't show up and people get suspicious just like me. I just didn't dig deep enough, since her doesn't seem to use voice or "write emails" ane everything is by text. Over 600....in just 1 year . The times...the people....the "log entries"....do not lie. The tell the tale .....but what tells the tale better than anyone.....is D herself. By her actions and her words.....when you put the two together.
It was a really bad day yesterday...and then some amazing things happened. I just had to share this and all I've found before I make a graceful exist. I would be negligent though, in not sharing this after all this time since "actions speak louder than words"....I just didn't have any "proof" until now?
It's not Mr Wonderful fault......he's just an innocent person in this and there is no reason to be jealous. And it's not "D's"...posse of friends or her "audience"....."The Qweens "WE" "...I'm afraid. They just believe her too........just like me, just like anyone would? Why,l would you think otherwise.........which is exactly the point? Until you kno 'otherwise".......then following the path that you know is the right one......is till the way to go....even if you fall and trip and fail.....it's still on the right path?
And what's wrong with that and in fact........."do I deserve this?"
What I deserve in all of this right now, is to protect myself as best I can from any and all "foes" or "enemy's" who might come knocking on my door?( literally or figuratively speaking ) and I've got all the names...address's, phone numbers, emial addresse's and all peertnent information on al the "Players" here? And the best policy and best protection I can think of ....is "full discolure" but more over......"Fair Discovery"...meaning...anyone accused of any wrong doing....is entitled to "Discovery"...so they can review and see what evidence you have against them? In this way, they can "choose" what they want to do or if they feel they have no case or any basis to come back from that themselves? Which I fully intend to send as a means for "full disclosure" and "full discovery". I've found when "full discovery" is makde available and "exposure" to the full undeniable truth........many times, a person will see that and think it's not worth it? And just move on by and avoid the conflict........when they see what they are up against? That is always the best policy in this case I think and the "truth" is never a bad policy...and "full discovery" in fairness...."should be" made available?
The difference betwen D and I even though we both have ADHD......is a sense of "inegrity" and "having principles" that I live by? And D.,,,,apparently,,,,,us operating on a different system...I'll leave it right there and let the "Facts" speak for themselves.
J
No Such Thing as "Alternative Facts".......Really.
Submitted by kellyj on
The ADHD Effect on Marriage In-Depth
Understanding Your Anger and Denial Worksheet
This worksheet is designed to get you to better understand your own anger and your partner’s experiencing of that anger. It will probably be touchy to discuss it – please take this as an opportunity to LEARN rather than FIX. Take what your partner says AT FACE VALUE without defending yourself or disagreeing. What you hear from your partner is his/her own perceptions of his/her own experience…how could you possibly know more about it than he/she does? You may not like what your partner says and you may not agree with his/her justification – this does NOT matter. This worksheet is for you to be able to record what your partner feels so you may consider it later.
YOU FIRST – YOUR ANGER
When do I feel most angry? How do I express my anger? (Write examples and ideas about this.)
1)F - When Kelly makes messes everywhere he leaves that I clean up, or they are not cleaned up.
E - I clam up, hope he will not talk to me, show “leave-me-alone” body language to discourage his engagement, when this fails I ask him to leave me alone. I close in, feel like a pressure cooker whose valve is gonna blow. I angrily clean the messes up he’s made, once again, seething with resentment, feeling used, devalued, worthless, unloved.
2) F - When I ask you to do something that is very important to me and you agree to do it and then don’t, repeatedly, often (1- let house/deck, yard look clean, like it is when I leave for work, when I get home, 2- make vet appt for animals in need, 3- get groceries (your only household chore), 4 - pick up the ADHD book for the seminar we’re already participating in, 5 - sign us up for the ADHD seminar and get the recommended book ahead of time because you know I’m a planner/do-it -ahead-of-time person and not doing so stresses me, a lot, etc.) R - I feel betrayed, hurt, angry, resentful. I do it myself if possible and I resent you for it, avoiding you or being cold, distant toward you, helpless, worthless, overwhelmed.
3) F - That you’ve promised to start getting ready ahead of time for activities/events of time sensitivity so we are not late, I hate being late - feel it’s rude, disrespectful/as if saying you don’t value the person/people we’re meeting well enough to be there on time and I also fell concern they’ll think I’m not timely/don’t respect them, (1 - getting together with friends at a designated time and place, 2 - therapy appts (even though I get off work early so I can get you going you often just refuse to stop what you’re doing and get angry with me if I persist in trying to get you to get ready, 3 - seems like this just happens with any appts we do together) E - I try to remember to set things up way ahead and give you reminders as appt grows closer, remind you the morning/day of the event to be sure you’re remembering it/will be ready, then when time is running out and you're still not getting ready to go I feel stress and start nagging, getting irritable, making negative remarks/digs, outwardly angry - though this has moved to just depressed resignation and resentment at this point/a feeling of hopelessness. I leave for and arrive at the event upset, embarrassed because we’re late, again, I make a comment to others so they know I’m not the reason - herding cats, I act disrespectfully to you in front of others, criticizing and mocking, I’m so angry and ashamed of who I am/hate self
4) F - When you blow up suddenly and extremely - which generally lasts for very long periods of time, half hour to hours - often for reasons unknown or for what seem like little things and involves extreme character assassination, stupid, broken, slow, malicious/intentionally plotting against you, just like my mother, your boss, your father/narcissist, (1 - I have a different opinion about something than you/you see it as not trusting/calling you a liar, 2 – I’m upset because you’ve made a mess, haven’t done what you said you would0 E - I try to stop the conversation because I’ve learned once you start spiraling it will quickly turn to rage (so shut you down/close you off), it doesn’t work, I keep telling you I don’t want to talk to you till we can get under control, you continue, the pressure cooker starts building inside and I leave the room to get away from you and you follow me, refuse to stop, start calling names, character assassination, condemnation, hatred, wish to destroy/harm, desire for revenge as you’ve told me ˜I want you to know how I feel” - get even. Unable to escape and lacking self-control now, I strike out/attack, I mock you for behaving like a spoiled, self-centered child, I imitate your pacing, flailing arms as you rage and condemn screaming hatred at me. Of late, I’m acting more like you, I engage in character assassination, scream, spit hatred, feel shame, self-loathing for it. When you’re done and go away I isolate for a while, sometimes a long while, seething, mourning, bleeding out inside. I feel hopeless, lost, adrift, suffocated with grief, self-hate and loathing. Also, fill with self-hatred, what’s wrong with me, why can’t I do/say the right things, why can’t I be a more well-rounded, resilient person better able to manage/behave better, loser. Of all the things these times are the most damaging to me/us.
How does my partner respond?
Apologizes and tries to do the thing then but I’m already angry, we fight. Becomes defensive and tells me I’m too demanding, angry all the time, negative, we fight.
Does that response help me get what I need? How would I like my partner to respond?
No. I’d like you to acknowledge you have not honored a promise, tell me you will put steps in place so you can become dependable and put said steps in place/stick to it till they work, stick to it so they continue to work.
What have I been denying that could help our relationship?
That I have very dishonest and deceptive communication. That I assume you understand things and don’t share enough detail to be sure you understand. That I focus too much on failure and too little on success. That we’ll be much better if I fix my wack. That I have no control over you and if I do manage to force you to do what I want it will not help me meet my goal of a loving and harmonious partnership with someone I connect with often and well in a life of mutual respect with equal focus on the fulfillment of my partner's dreams, aspirations, desires.
TO GET FROM YOUR PARTNER
Ask your partner: What is it like for you when I express my anger? How do you feel? (probe until you have several different examples or ideas)
Your anger makes me feel attacked. I feel persecuted and attacked. Then I figure out what you’re mad at, if I didn’t know, and want to talk about it. You refuse. I feel irritated but want to talk. You don’t. Then I feel dismissed. That makes me very angry and I explode.
Ask your partner: How do you think you respond to my anger? What does that response do for you? How do you feel when you respond that way (or those ways)?
(HINT: don’t critique the answer your partner gives you…you are asking for an opinion only.)
H - With anger. W - It makes me feel bad about myself. That is when I feel ashamed. I feel remorse. H – Horrible.
Ask your partner: When I am angry and need to express that anger, what’s the most important thing you think I should AVOID doing?
Avoid misinterpretations – slide show
Ask your partner: When I am angry and need to express that anger, what’s the most important thing you think I should ADD to what I do? (or do differently)
Don’t rationalize or justify your anger to me. Use code word meaning ‘I don’t want to talk to you about it now, give me some space and we’ll come back and address it later’.
UPON REFLECTION
What am I going to do to start to get control of my anger? (i.e. ideas for your action plan?)
Dawn leaves for work at 8;30am like clock work
03/15/16, 8:50 (503) 781-xxxx----( alternate )many more too.....in the running....and others on top of that...a dozen or more.
03/15/16, 8:38 ( 503 ) 442-xxxx Mr Wonderful
03/13/16, 1:44 PM (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:42 PM (503) 442-XXXX IncomingText--
03/13/16, 1:40 PM (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:39 PM (503) 442-XXXX IncomingText--
03/13/16, 1:37 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503 ) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/11/16, 8:43am (503) 442-XXXX Incoming
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:35 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:30 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:30 (503) 442-XXXX OutgoingText--
03/13/16, 1:30 (503) 442-XXXX IncomingText--
03/13/15 1:29PM (503) 442-XXXX IncomingText--
03/12/16, 7:42PM (503) 442-XXX OutgoingText--
And that was one day and evening only going back to this day a year a 1/2 ago. It goes bac further but not need. But it's the answer I've been wanting hear from her, not from anyone else? I use to ask and she'd say....."ask ( Therapist )" Well , how's he going to tell me this cause this is what I want, and what I want to know, from "YOU"........not anyone else? I'm not in a relationship with all of these people I don't know......I'm only here with you and it's just me and you....right?
Apparently.....I was wrong? But I am the "bad guy" here in this case, but I can still wear that well....I don't need to do anything more than to protect myself...but, when I read this paragraph.....and how I know it and what that means to me....is really really obvious what the problem is....if I didn't see that in the past. I'll just that there and let her speak for herself. For what it's worth or for what ever value that may serve anyone else as well.
I HAVE BEEN IN DENIAL OF:
"That I have very dishonest and deceptive communication. That I assume you understand things and don’t share enough detail to be sure you understand. That I focus too much on failure and too little on success. That we’ll be much better if I fix my wack. That I have no control over you and if I do manage to force you to do what I want it will not help me meet my goal of a loving and harmonious partnership with someone I connect with often and well in a life of mutual respect with equal focus on the fulfillment of my partner's dreams, aspirations, desires."
which means my dear, if your comminication deceptive and dishonest...the you are beig that way too? And you've got something to hide or you are trying to decieve someone with intention. There is nothing wrong with what you want if that is what you want and what you are doing.....but gee, do me a favor, and let me know ahead of time that this is what you want....or don't want, before you say something else completely, and lead me down the garden path? Okay? Or might not that suit you? Maybe if you did.....you could do what you do anymore? Maybe? Or maybe not? It's none of my bussiness.....but this what I just discovered is. It is very much my bussiness and was at the time too. Deception and dishonety is no way to live. Niether is being messy and not picking up your stuff, neither is being late all the time......niether is any of it.......except......if your trying to decieve people and put on a show....then every little imperfection that shows on the outside.....might compromise the "scheme" on the inside....if the "exterior" doesn't look flawless? One might think? I mean, you wouldn't want anyone "seeing your flaws" now would you? (that's my response to her )
And understand all of this, which does really help alot? However....the question still remains in how to see her? Is she a "soul-ess" "sociopath" with no ability to have empathy and cannot "feel"....or is she a "highly over sensitive" "hypervigilent/ self rightous victim...who has a real entitlement problem and just a piss poor attitude and really no self respect or respect for anyone else? But actually has "real feelings" and can actually "really feel Love" and is not a complete pathological sociopath with no feelings what so ever? I mean.....for me as far as "self protection" for the future is concerned......my approach might be slightly different...if I new that for sure? Just for self protection mind you and nothing else? There are "too many names",....I don't know or recognize....just a thought that I'm thinking and being proactive just in case but I really don't know.
And actually....if I were to confront her whether by ourselves or in front of an audience......I could say with with absolute sincerity and really mean it...." we owe each other and an apology"....."WE".......that is, just the two of us and no one else.
J
I've been reading your last
Submitted by Chevron on
I've been reading your last couple posts. Expletive. I hope you talk it through with your T, these details you've turned up. If you've found enough to demonstrate to yourself what you see, I'd suggest that, in this ornery world we live in, that you print off a dated copy and put it away, and stop looking for more or looking at it any more. Younknow what you know. that's enough.
Sigh. I've been on and off this site, in periods of read only or posting, since I started to wonder whether my soon to be husband had ADHD. So I cant tell you what year it was, but I have a dim memory of you once writing that D told the truth as she saw it. Or perhaps my memory is wrong on that.
Well.
No advice, except dont isolate and obsess, ... if you can. Too much ricochet inside the mind, friend. : ) maybe go thank those neighbors who sent the cops to check on you.
Chevron
Just the Facts Ma'am
Submitted by kellyj on
Chevron,
There is one thing I know for sure and I know this from living with her long enough to see this from other sides. She does not "feel" ( as she says ) the need to tell people the entire story and she keeps as much of the story to herself at all times for what reason ......I don't know? Maybe is "shame" and maybe not......but in her mind, she feels "entitled" to 'clam up"...and keep her feelings to herself and what she is doing at all times and doesn't feel the need to share that with anyone?
I mean, she asked her boss for a 4 day work week....but felt imposed upon or intimidated or "disrespected' because he wanted to know "why?" I told her, that when I was the owner and boss of my business......and my employees "wanted something from me or watned a special favor, time off, or anything out of the ordinary that was not "the norm" and "not allowed without permission".....I wanted to know why....or course...so I could make plans, see if there was some kind of 'conflict" with something else "I wanted" or better........that I had to see......not so much to "judge it" as "justifiable" but so I had all the information to make a good decision? We just had this conversation not more than a few weeks ago..and I told her of my own father who was really really good at being a boss and manager. Despite...all or anything else you could say good or bad about him......he was a "leader" and he lead well. And as I explained to her.....with him, you had to convince him. He wanted YOU......to give HIM....."good reason" for what ever you asked from him always. He was kind of the like the "God Father"....who said very little and listened in silence ( man of few words ) and then simply said "yes" or 'no"....as long as you "give him good reason" for anything you wanted his permission for? But I understand that in terms that there may be "many other reasons" in there....that have nothing to do with you...and even if the answer is "yes"......my father would give you his opinion.and then make a deal with you on the spot............................
"Okay....yes you can do that......but here's the deal ( it always started with that always.....it's the way he operated and yes.....bosses do operate like this since you are going to them for permission and asking for their "grace". "Beggars can't be choosers" as they say..........................this concept seemed to be completely missing with D in fact...she found it offensive which is the problem?
( my father would continue.........) the deal is.......yes, you can go to the movies with XXXX.......but if I come home tomorrow and the lawn isn't mowed...or if you miss something that "cost me money".....you'll be paying for anything I pay for out of pocket....and you will be doing the lawn too.....before you can do or get anything else? I don't care if you're starving and we're all eating and having dinner......if you are outside "mowing the lawn" because you went to the movies now......I be subtracting the money you cost me, making you "pay me out or your allowance" or "for the next time your account with be in th negative" and you'll be mowing the lawn in the dark before you "eat" even. Okay? I'm not going to be "hand holding you" or following after you.......you're asking me for a "marker"......now you are "indebted to me if you fail?
If was very much....like going to the "God Father" and "asking for his favor. The entire concept of "no free lunch"....means......"nothing is for free". So if you asking me for a favor......it's fair and equitable of you...to feel me in on the details and answer the simple question of "WHY"?. No "why"....answer.......no favor? I have my "reasons".....I simply want to know ..."yours" so I can make an informed decision.....do you begrudge me of that, since you'r the oje who wants something from me...so I don't go buy some "pig in the poke" and you just sold me a "bill of goods".....which might have been avoided if you had told me the "why" and what your reasoning is?
But then I went on to tell D.....that even with my father......he had "superiors" above him who he had to answer too which was the same as I did even with my own business indirectly but still true. I had people to "answer to" and "I had to answer to them" the same as you? Or anyone in this case? So does your boss? I mean......if his "superiors" the ones who actually "own the business" came to him and said....."why did you let D...go 4 day work week...while everyone esle has to work 5?
But, her answer is still....."I don't see why I have to tell people or give people my reasons or reasoning? I don't like that he wanted to know why....I shouldn't have to do so or tell him? "
What's the secret? What's the big deal if you are not up to "no good" yourself? This is simply "suspicious behavior"...and I also discovered where she is staying and it's not where she said she was. In fact....as I said.......look to the opposite direction.....and sure enough......that's exactly where I found her? All I had to do was track her phone........she is 15 miles in the opposite direction of where she is suppose to be? All those texts and flurry of text to 'the people she is suppose to be leiving with" were probably warning them to cover for her or to alert them I might come by? I haven't left my living room......the deception just gets worse and worse.......not better. And I know the people where she is staying and I thought they were y friends. I guess friends go with the primary......there is no loyalty anymore I guess. I don't play those games......I'm not in "High School" or "Jr High" anymore.
See, that's just it......circumstantial evidence.....is not enough to accuse or even say "I know" until you have all the facts? People are "hiding something" and there is a big part of the "story" that has yet to be covered and since the "players" aint' saying...then I find out for myself? Something is "up" and I need to get to the bottom of it.....only to make sure "what their intentions are"...and if "I'm even involved"? It may have nothing to do with me......but then again....it may have "everything to do with me?"
Like my father would always make that condition........"tell me why".......then I'll give you my answer...once "you give me all the facts". No givie.....to getiie. Your the one coming to me for a favor or wanting something from me.......not the other way around? If we make a "deal"....that "deal" is written in "stone". ......"hand shake.........spit in both hands and rub them together......"my word is my bond".............................no contract needed or anything written down...as "men of honor do". The greatest and worst shame of all....."losing face"....would be to "dishonor" your "word".......then you are no better than the "scum who crawl in the gutter"........if you would be so braise to even think of such a thing. There is a "severe cost" for "dishonoring your word" like that?
From that perspective...and the language to go along with it? That's just the way I learned things and I still hold those values dear. And in the same kind of tone and attitude...when I did have to go to court to defend myself against a "Borderline woman" who was trying to leverage me ( with the help of her friends ) which seems very very similar to this......even more similar all the time? But as the "attorney I hired commented on this just before we had to go "into the court room".....was "these people are like "cock roaches"....they like to live "in the dark"....as soon as you shine a :"spot light on them" ...they will scatter and run for the nearest crack they can find."
And I watched him "take over the court room"...and in 10 minutes ...it was over.......he did exactly what he said...and I watched as that kind of "illumination" ended it it a hurry. It ws over before it started and "I won" and "she lost" and she was prevented from trying to get what she was after which is her case.....it was to get "State Victim Status"........and of course to get that......you have to be a victim. Which means there has to be a perpetrate or "abuser" as said. Because...as a "offical victim" awarded by the state......you get "all kinds of free stuff".....like health insurance and lot of other benefit assistance at your disposal ....free of charge paid for by the state.
And my friend the private detective and my friend the US federal Marshall ( ex under-cover narcotic detective ) said the same thing. I don't remember the statistics but they said that something like 90% of all 9/11 calls are bogus. Attornies tell clients to invoke these measures to get "the most out of their spouses" making false and illegitimate claims against their spounse for leverage and control. The private detective said....that a huge number of his case are men.....who have been wrongfully accused of wrong doing even years later as he recalled on "ex spouse" even tried to accuse her ex-husband 8 years later....that he raped her.....which we can't know if that is true......but when confronted in court...they asked "why didn't you come sooner?"
Well, the why in that case was........she had a boyfriend she was living with and then he threw her and her child out and she was on her own and didn't have any money.....8 years later, she see's what she can get and decides to use that to her advantage. She lost or course......but not without it really costing the man ( her ex husband ) months of anxiety and stress and having to hire him to figure this out? Which was the defense....which the court an judge aggreeed.
The problem...as I found once I had to do that myself is........the "hidden agenda" and usuing you as a "scape goat"......or "villinizing" you to use ...."not against you"......but to "use you" for their own "private purpose and agenda" that only serves them? The fact that you have to pay a price or suffer.....is the least of their concern.
I need to know this.......so I will know, exactly what to do...and not guess or beat around the bush. If this is th "game being played".....I find that reprehensible and nothing I will toleerate for even a second. I got a first rate education fro the poeple on the "inside" of this......and I still have their advise to use a means to guide me but more over......I know how to stop it....before it happens...and "expose them....and the "hidden agenda" and nip it in the bud. What I'm saying is......what "might" or "what might be lifely" and taking the worst case scenario.....just in case.....to keep me safe fro someont like this.......IF, this is what they are doing or what they have "scemed up" to leverage me and do harm to me. I won't allow it....not for second. I have freind who can help with this...as they have in the past. From the inside....which is the best source for this kind of thing.
J
What this forum does.....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
It is an amazing place to come......when you are treading water and about to sink...because you CAN'T figure out yourself how you ended up feeling like..WTF...on a DAILY basis.
All who have posted in my time here have given advice and thoughts that generate possibilities. While it may be overwhelming at times,for me, I had to stay the course. I had no where else to go.
Learning the ins and outs of ADHD was important. Learning that denial was the real enemy ......oh my. Then learning about my own denial of the facts in front of me? For crying out loud! It takes TWO to have a marriage......a very simple easy to understand statement..... uh...apparently not for some....who knew? OMG!
Of late I have seen my own hypocrisy. I knew then that THE right decision was to leave. I am much clearer in my thinking now and I consider this an opportunity for both H and I. Whether he agrees does not change my mind. As it turns out I am moving back to the upstairs apt today until I can take care of my animal responsibilities. There are clearly written boundaries....no touch, no talk, no whining.
I am excited......I am done being sad. I have a life to live.....yay!
I am fully aware that ADHD is not my H's only issue.....so when I speak of denial it covers any area in need of seeing and improving... And that goes for me as well.
I cannot name all who have posted here but I can say you gave me much needed comfort, laughter and even frustration with advice that was hard to hear sometimes. I have met an amazing group of people....many many thanks.
PS to be sure....I will be lurking here:)...but from a much better place.
I'm Going to Lurk Too........Zapp
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm going to be in and out at times I'm sure. You know, I just went back in fact...and looked up the time frame when things really all went to "Hell" so to speak and I have to put this into perspective here which is kind of the "cherry" on top. In the "big picture" and I remembeer this well......we were actually not doing great but hopeful on my part? But D was at least interested and wanted to do the couple course together but she was already burdened with her mothers health and her mothers episodes of pshychotice behavior and then having to move her to the rehab home where she finally died just around Christmas time. And then after that....the memorial and the wake with her family. And then after that we "scattered" her mothers ashes at the coast. And then D got way depressed and was inconsolable and shut down and shut me out. And then she started going online to find other people or maybe she's been doing that the entire time? Who knows but I don't need to know....it does make any more of a difference however, going back and seeing your 'state of mind" and that in comparison is really useful and I'm sure I'll come to take a peek at that as my memory wants to know or is curious? It's a good resource for now and for later that's for sure. Thank you for all you nice thoughts and fun attitude, it's been quite an advanture that's for sure. whew!!
J
Month got worse but I'll be okay
Submitted by nochangingnames on
It has been a month and the wall of silence has not come down. In this month my grandparent passed away, and despite hearing about it I still didn't even get a "my condolences" communication. I don't really know how someone could just disappear like that: send one text and say we're done, after 5 years. He sentmystuff to storage from our apartment, I got a notification from the storage company. It's been surreal and most days still feel like a nightmare, especially with the family grief added on. But, if after me standing by him for five years through every tragedy and every joyful event, he can't even muster a condolences text? I don't need him. The more I have read this forum the more I have become convinced better now than me with kids dealing with parenting him also. I still miss him, I am still in a lot of pain, and I still love the person he was those 5 years but his inability to even send an "I am sorry for your loss" to my mom who was more loving and warm than his own mother (his words!) well, yeah, I guess I never knew him after all. I don't know who it was I was seeing for five years but at least his actions have revealed his true colors. Be it impulse control issues or the ADHD factor of "out of sight, out of mind" his actions were unacceptable and if I never get answers, that's okay, I'll live with that. Thank you for checking in on me. How are you?
I'm so sorry
Submitted by Mgrace on
I'm so sorry about your loss. Something like that must be really hard in your situation. Were you close with your grandparent? I have just one grandmother who's still alive but I really love her (we became really close when she going through chemo seven years ago) and I can't imagine losing her. Especially now...
There was a lot of stuff going on with me, too. Few weeks ago I started to feel really sick and at that time I found a lump in my breast. My brain gave up and I started to unfold the worst scenarios. I wasn't able to talk about it with anyone, not even my family (we became really distant because they didn't approve of my ex-boyfriend). He was the only person I wanted to talk to. I almost wasn't able to go to the sonography, I was so scared. I went through all that "my life has no meaning without him" again. I never felt so alone in my life.
Fortunately it's a benign tumour and my other problems were related to something else. Going through that alone gave me a lot of perspective. Firstly, I am stronger than I think I am. Also I started to think about how it's related to the stress I went through because of him this year. My body is telling me that I have to start thinking about myself, taking care of myself firstly. When we were together, he was always in the first place. He liked that I was taking care of him. He was always telling me that I am the perfect girlfriend. Not anymore, I am the only one I have to take care of.
And there's also one more thing I wanted to mention. I kept my promise that I wouldn't try to contact him (and I was proud of that). I broke that promise on sunday. Before I knew his diagnosis, few weeks before he confirmed me via e-mail that he has ADHD, I created a little monument near our favourite place in the woods (it was well hidden), I wrote an open letter about forgiving him what he did and other things (it was really conciliatory). I used to go there when I was feeling alone (I was there when I didn't know if I was sick). Actually it was my therapist's idea. On sunday I went there and I found that place destroyed (it happened in the past two weeks). By him. There was a message, really hateful and aggressive message. The tone of his message made me shiver. I cried, I was angry. And in that heat of emotion I wrote him an e-mail. It was strict, defensive, not my brightest moment. I immediately started to regret sending it. He didn't reply. And I didn't expect he would. Yesterday I saw a photo of him by accident (it was taken at a public event). He looked so different, like some else. Pale, circles under his eyes, like there was no life in him. I don't think he's the person he was. I think he hates me, he would like to erase me. It feels like my existence disgusts him. I don't know why. I respected all his wishes and demands. Why so much anger? When I saw his photo, when I saw how miserable he is, it confirmed that it wasn't me, that getting rid of me didn't make him better. And I know that being with me didn't make him worse like he made me believe. I am not responsible for that...
Put yourself first
Submitted by nochangingnames on
He was my last living grandparent and we were close so it has been tough. But, what these times have made me realize is how much love people other than him hold for me. Family and friends have come through like no other.
I am so sorry you had to deal with those fears alone but a) so happy it's a benign tumor and b) exactly as you said, you are very strong. Going through all of that alone, take a moment to observe and appreciate your immense capacity to persevere. You are surviving without him and you will thrive without him. Non-ADHD partners tend to put themselves second, until we become the parent, feel responsible for every portion of their life, and forget to take care of ourselves. But ultimately, each individual is responsible for their own mental well being. And you need an equal partner, someone who can be there for you on your toughest days.
I felt so abandoned, how could I mean so little that he wouldn't even reach out after finding out about my grandpa? But you know, that actually, has made his absence easier to accept. If he is truly so callous and cruel then good riddance, let him go his own way.
Don't regret sending that email, we have all been there-that text, that call, that letter, that email- you have a right to your feelings and he left without giving you a chance to express yourself. Think of what is good for you. I broke no contact when I sent him a birthday message-just something kind and sweet wishing him happiness and all that...you know what I got? You guessed it, silence.
I hate to quote a song but there is a particularly apt lyric by Nina Simone "...you've got to leave the table, when love is no longer being served."
Look at how much you're handling all on your own! That's immense, and so much to be proud of in yourself and your capacity to give kindness and compassion with that shrine even when all you were getting was vitriolic silence.
I feel the same exact way: totally erased, completely hated, with no explanation. I had forgiven him many indiscretions throughout the years, and never treated him this way. But you know, fine. Let him go. If he has such a capacity for cruelty, you don't need him by your side because life has so many tough moments, and it's important that we be able to rely on those near and dear to us to come through.
Take care of yourself, message here anytime and I'll respond. Sorry for my delay, I was down with the flu, finally out from under the covers.
Sending warmth and strength your way
That's what I'm trying to do
Submitted by Mgrace on
Hi,
when I look back (two months or so), I can clearly see that I'm getting better in general. But there are still moments when I start crying when something reminds me of him. I am trying to put myself first, but that's not easy for me. Because I am used to be "the helping one". Not just with him. Actually he wanted me to learn to be more selfish. He made me stronger, more independent when we were together. I bought a flat, moved from my parents, got a better job with more responsibilities and wonderful colleagues (I consider them friends now because they were real help last few months).
You wrote it really nicely "And you need an equal partner, someone who can be there for you on your toughest days." Yes, some day in the future I would like find someone like that. But not anytime soon. It's been five months since he broke up with me, four months of silence. I also broke the silence on his birthday. I left him a moonstone at our favorite place with contact details of my psychiatrist who later diagnosed him with ADHD. That was the last time he answered me like "his old self". And I miss his old self so much. But I have no interest to see his "new self". Reading a lot on this forum and knowing him and his past I think I understand what he's going through. I just don't get it. The rational part of me knows why he's doing the things he's doing, but the emotional part just doesn't get why. Sometimes I use the universal answer "His brain works differently." My therapist asked me if there's a possibility I didn't fully know him. But I knew there was someone like that inside him. I even had a nickname for him (Lord of the Darkness), he stopped manifesting when we started dating. It is his safe mode. He's switched off. No emotions, no empathy, a lot of anger. And there's nothing I can do about it.
And there's another thing this week. My colleague asked me if I want to have a coffee with her and her friend next week. She thinks we have a lot in common and she wanted to introduce us for quite some time now. My first response was "Why? I am not interested in meeting new people". Then I thought "Why shouldn't I be?" So I am going to meet someone new to spend time with (as a friend, nothing more, I am not prepared for more). I am trying not to feel guilty, I am trying not to feel like I am somehow cheating on him. I need new people because I lost few because of him. I want to enjoy my life again.
Take care, you too. And also message me any time you'll feel the need or just to say "hi" ;)
I'm sending lots of hugs your way.
Boy do I feel you on this one.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
I was also with my ex for 5 years. I thought it would be forever. There were some big problems (the story is in my posting history) but he told me he loved me and wanted to fix things and have a life with me. I wanted the same.
I did all the loving things that you do for a partner but he never made good on his commitments to me. When he was called out on it he stonewalled, deflected and ultimately broke up with me via email. Email. After five years. I've had relationships end before and not always very gracefully... but his behavior was just despicable.
I internalized it for a while but in reality it was not about anything I said or did. It's him. Whenever there is an issue or an uncomfortable feeling that he just doesn't want to deal with, for whatever reason, he will avoid and escape in any way he can. Either by doing a verbal dance around the topic, changing the subject, blaming someone else, rationalizing and minimizing, answering a question with a question, getting angry, pretending to be too busy, ignoring texts and phone calls, lying by omission, or actually physically leaving the situation. I watched him do it over and over... with friends, with his not-yet-ex-wife, his siblings, his kids, bill collectors, employees. And of course, me... because I was confronting him with a giant mirror and a bullhorn and forcing him to look at the things he didn't want to see.
Despite knowing that though, it is extremely painful to be treated badly by someone you thought was your friend and partner. For me, it brought up issues of abandonment and unworthiness that I'm still trying to heal from. It made me question everything he ever said to me and I also felt like.. wow.. how could you do that. It sucks. But you are right.. actions speak louder. Better now than later, hard as it is. And I am sorry for the loss of your grandparent as well. (hug)
Thank you
Submitted by nochangingnames on
Thank you for your words of encouragement, it's amazing how strangers over the Internet show more compassion and kindness than the people who said they loved us. People we nurtured and cared for (at times like children).
This part really resonated "either by doing a verbal dance around the topic, changing the subject, blaming someone else, rationalizing and minimizing, answering a question with a question, getting angry, pretending to be too busy, ignoring texts and phone calls, lying by omission, or actually physically leaving the situation." I am so sorry about how your break up went down, over email, that sounds awful. I keep questioning if I ever really knew him, how could he just leave with a text? It's as though he has disappeared, and there remains no trace. Abandonment and insecurities abound. But take a look back and see how far you've come, all you've accomplished and all you've carried (even in terms of carrying and managing HIS life) and recognize that you have miles of success ahead of you without this person.
I miss him all the time but now I actually have time to tend to my own life without feeling like I am burning the candle at both ends. Of course, many days I would give that freedom up to be back in the trenches with him but as my therapist keeps telling me: is that a good thing? Isn't that toxic codependency? Perhaps.
What I have come to understand is this, ultimately, no reason he was going to give me was ever going to suffice because what I ultimately wanted was one thing: for him to stay. And if he is choosing to leave a place of warmth and love then you have to focus on yourself, do things that make you feel good. His considerations and needs are no longer your problem. I kept worrying about dating one day (not anytime soon that's for sure-still in love, still grieving) and what if he finds out if that ever happens and what if that is what really stops him from returning then I realize...he is gone. He has been gone. He doesn't care. I need to stop caring. Every time I think of us and the past and all this I remind myself "he doesn't care anyone, he is gone. That chapter is closed."
Being a supporting and caring partner to an ADHD significant other takes a lot of work, you all have so much resiliency in you, I have so much faith in all of us going through this.