A woman with ADHD asks for more support here for those who have this special kind of mind…and I agree. But taking the negativity private isn’t the only way to go.
This woman, who reads this site, recently contacted me to note that she is often put off by the virulent complaining about ADHD people she reads in the forum. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this complaint, and I don’t disagree. It’s a delicate balance…letting both those with ADHD and those without ADHD speak their minds and feel heard. Sometimes what people have to say is pretty hard to hear. There is a lot of pain out there.
She suggested that we create a private place that is just for those with ADHD to explore their issues and strengths. It’s worth considering, and perhaps the addition of such a place would encourage overall greater participation here from ADHD partners. But it worries me a bit, too. What would it do to the general conversations? Would it simply isolate ADHD and non-ADHD once again? Lessening your ability to learn from each other? I would like to hear your opinions.
My observation is that the community forum goes in waves – sometimes the give and take between those with and without ADHD is supportive and constructive, at other times just the opposite. This seems to revolve around specific threads and individuals as they express particularly negative emotions. And, I suspect, there are a number of adults with ADHD would contribute more if they felt more invited in by those who are posting.
Really, this issue seems a reflection of what happens inside all of your relationships, too. Anger and hopelessness on the part of non-ADHD partners feels unsupportive (and sometimes abusive) to ADHD partners, while ADHD symptomatic behaviors and anger on the part of ADHD partners feels likewise unloving (and sometimes abusive) to non-ADHD partners.
Yet we have to have this conversation. Exposing how both parties feel is critical to creating a better understanding of relationships impacted by ADHD. You cannot learn to better love your partner until you understand his or her experience better, and often that learning comes from others. We can be too entrenched in the “details” and specifics of our own relationships to learn directly from our own partner because we think we’ve “heard it all before”… at least from our partner!
But we don’t have to beat each other up while having this conversation.
I would ask those in the community – and particularly non-ADHD partners – to be sensitive to the range of personalities and minds of those in this community. You will all be strengthened if the conversation remains constructive, and more people are therefore encouraged to participate. Furthermore, learning how to constructively think about, and talk about, your experiences will be one of the most important skills you can learn from participating at this site. Use that skill (and the resulting support you receive from others on the site) to improve your life.
So respectful conversation is requested. But I’m open to trying other ideas, too. So if you think a private, ADHD-partner-only area of the website is a good idea, please let me know.
- MelissaOrlov's blog
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Comments
Can we stop beating each other up - Negotiation and boundaries.
Submitted by marych osullvan... on
Dear Melissa et al,
I,for one, would be extremely sad to see a 'private' section develop on this website for people with ADHD alone. Though I can understand this woman's request in the light of harsh,painful and difficult comments posted,I can not tell you how valuable reading both sides of the equation has been for me, and also for my marriage. My husband lives with ADHD at his present age of 71,diagnosed when 52. We have been together 15 years and married for 13. We met when I was 46 and he 56. Neither of us fully 'got' ADHD for a very long time. He had done some minimal reading (happily Hallowell's 'Driven to Distraction' which he introduced me to) and had been on Ritilin when living in the States,(where he's from) but went untreated for years once he came to live in Ireland,where we met and live. I understood very little about ADHD initially though working as a Psychotherapist. And of course we both started to 'act out' with each other the more the years together passed and ended up fighting an awful lot for a number of very painful years for both of us. During this time I read all that I could and found some very helpful information,which my husband ( being incredibly open) was always happy to share. It helped to some factual degree. But it wasn't until I stumbled upon this website that I FINALLY found MYSELF and MY BEHAVIOUR of anger and frustration reflected back to me in such a way that I no longer felt alone,mad,abnormal nor a harridan!. This stopped me in my tracks and brought huge relief to my 'over-wrought' system. AND reading the ADHD side of the dialogue was a VITAL part in my understanding more and more how my anger was being experienced and how it wasn't contributing anything constructive to the situation,in fact the opposite! I was contributing to wearing my husband's confidence into the ground and exhausting his nervous system. And we were caught in that vicious cycle of his 'reacting' to my reactions and visa versa. Thus Melissa's first book stepped in and gave us both a means of understanding and working with each other towards a much more even keel. I won't lie and say everyday is a dream day since then but,though we have our difficult moments, we are thankfully,living a totally different relationship than initially. So I would make an enormous plea to this particular woman to not 'sequester' off into 'separating privacy' for protection. PLEASE! Though the dialogue is, at times, very tough for each side to hear and experience, in my opinion it is invaluable and much more 'real' and thus relevant. Living with ADHD can be very difficult on both sides at times but its also incredibly rich for both parties once these difficulties can be worked through, and particularly if they can be loved through. I wouldn't trade my husband for all the 'tea in china' as they say, though both my husband and I identify with the sentiments of Billy Graham's wife Ruth when she joked 'I never consider divorce. Murder yes,but not divorce.'! Both my husband and I have grown in depth and breath since coming face to face with ourselves via the ADHD in our marriage. I have gone into therapy twice to work on my own responses and have been brought on a very deep, relevant,personal journey as a result. I am now studying Somatic Experiencing,a way of working with Trauma in the Body,spearheaded by Peter Levine,not specific to ADHD but invaluable generally (see 'healingtrauma.com') This has helped both of us to understand some of the layers of 'activation' which we 'trigger' in each other,unwittingly. And through the whole journey I have gained invaluable understanding about living with ADHD from both sides that I've been able to help a number of my own patients,as well as educate other Psychotherapists whose work I clinically supervise.I will end now by reiterating that I would not have learned or gained so much if it weren't for BOTH sides of the dialogue being available to me. I continue to benefit from the same, as this website as well as Melissa's books and advice, I have found to be the most practical on an everyday basis. With deep gratitude, Marych in Ireland.
ADHD/non-ADHD posters and Respect
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
My observation is that the community forum goes in waves – sometimes the give and take between those with and without ADHD is supportive and constructive, at other times just the opposite.
I completely agree with your assessment, having been around this site for several years.
I must admit that sometimes I feel disrespected by some of the comments. I almost responded to one the other day but decided I was angry and it was not worth it (Take THAT, impulsivity!). Some of them are not simply acknowledgements that we have a neurological disorder that causes ingratiating and sometimes infuriating behavior, but rather almost an assertion that we are mostly simpletons or morally bereft. And yes, I have some posts and comments in mind. Sometimes, when the ball gets rolling on a topic, there is a "THEM" vs. "US" flavor. It's not about a particular poster's DH, but the whole lot of ADHDers. I usually have a pretty high tolerance as I realize it's not personal and also because I DO UNDERSTAND that much of this comes from a deep, deep pain. But whomever wrote to you is not alone in feeling this way about some of the comments. I feel like when I joined this site, there was much more positivity, and we helped each other more, IN SPITE OF our collective pain. If I was deeply in a marriage crisis today and had just found this site, I might be more likely not to post and perhaps even run in the other direction.
I'm not sure how I feel about segregating us. I do like to learn from the non-ADHD contributors. It helps me understand my husband better. I also agree that we could do a better job of helping each other make better choices, and learn about our own contributions to the issues in our marriages .
I hope this makes sense.
ADHDMomof2
Hearing Things When You are Ready to Hear Them
Submitted by kellyj on
I think there is merit to both, but this also depends on what you are looking for and you're ability to hear it....if you are ready to hear it whether it is the cold hard truth or not. I haven't been here long so I don't feel I have much of a voice in this matter....but I will say that I came here to listen to the very thing that that your reader did not want to hear or was not seeing the benefit from it. Much of what I have observed is people needing to vent or have a supportive hear that thy can relate to. Sometimes people need to do that. It may not be constructive or useful information but at least it's connecting with someone who can understand what you are going through.
For me...I've had to fight the urge to defend having ADHD and find different words to use even though I'm sure my language is clear enough to hear this at times anyway. It's been good practice for me to do this which again....also helps me put this to use in my marriage.
I don't get that this is a support group style forum exclusively, but it definitely is for some people. I'm OK with that.....it just takes a little more digging and wading through the moral support parts to get to the heart of the matter. I know some of my posts might have appeared out of context to support alone but I also realize that some one like myself might be looking for the very thing I have to say whether it's being supportive or just informative....or neither?
For me...it has been helpful at times just to say the things that are in my head to someone instead of of my dog. He always listens but isn't great with helpful feedback.....unless licking my face counts for that. lol
Thanks
J
To be more specific...
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
I think there is merit to both, but this also depends on what you are looking for and you're ability to hear it....if you are ready to hear it whether it is the cold hard truth or not.
I don't ever have a problem with this. That's what I'm here for, as well. Calling people with ADHD "retarded," for example, is never acceptable. That is the kind of thing is not O.K. with me.
what did I miss?
Submitted by ChrisChris on
I haven't seen any name calling with the word retarded on this site. Not yet anyway. Maybe I missed something?
Name calling
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
There was a poster who compared her ADHD partner to a mentally retarded 10 year old. People do need to say what is on their mind, but no one needs to express it that way.
Sticks and Stones
Submitted by kellyj on
say's more about the person saying it than it does about a person having ADHD.....projection.
Yup...
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
It surely does, JJamieson.
I agree, they must not
Submitted by why_so_hard_gir... on
I agree, they must not realize that even though some of us are different, we are extremely intelligent.
Disagrree
Submitted by ChrisChris on
If you can't say what's on your mind in your own way, then what's the point of talkng?
How else?
Submitted by ifwisheswerehorses on
Re: How else?
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
What insights have we learned and tools do we use that prevent us from holding this harmful brief about our spouses and how do we share them with her?
I think that is the key: when someone makes a post like that, people like you who have been there can offer words of encouragement and advise on how to move past that, as well as validation that you and others here have been that frustrated.
Re, Re:How Else?
Submitted by kellyj on
Her unfiltered statement lets me know how far down the path she has gone without support and education as to how to constructively deal with her situation.
What I have seen are so many people stuck in the same places I have been (and maybe to a lesser degree...still am) in the past. This statement sums that up perfectly and gives me an opportunity to throw my two bits in if they can use it. It's an offering not a judgment.....this is the give and take with no offense and without inference. Most of the time.....the truth isn't always pretty but it's better than living in denial......I can attest for that much positively.
J
Don't change
Submitted by NJTWINMOM on
This is an open forum that has been active for many years. We all agree that as long as we are as respectful as we can be, when discussing such an emotionally painful subject as living with an ADHD partner, we need to be able to say what's on our minds.
Perhaps, if this woman is offended, she simply should not come here. I know that sounds horribly rude, but if it is hurtful to her, as I can well comprehend it may be, then this just isn't the right fit for her.
Fitting Your Need
Submitted by kellyj on
I agree with you but I would also add that recognizing what your need is might be the first step. There have been times ( and probably will be again)....that reading some of the posts here would not be of any benefit and in fact.....could do more harm than good. Living with anger and resentment is no way to live your life no matter which side of this issue you are on and we all are looking for a way out from this........it would appear that this is what we are all searching for and trying to find our own path to do it. Recognizing this first will tell you if this is a good fit or not at any given time. MHO
Food for Thought...
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
NJTWINMOM,
I don't know where in this thread to reply, so I am arbitrarily replying here :). I just had a thought as to why some of the more recent posts have been getting under my skin a bit, whereas in the past, I was not bothered.
Imagine if a couple of ADHD posters started joking about leaving all of the work for their spouses, losing a job, or any other behavior you rightfully would consider maddening. Would you find that acceptable? I'm thinking there would be a barrage of angry comments. Actually, I can say with 100% certainty that that would happen. One might say this triggered something emotionally based on past experiences with one's own spouse. I get this.
When I see venomous comments that remind me of the most tumultuous times in my marriage, it triggers me, too.
I would like to add that I miss the camaraderie of the past, that this site used to be much, much more productive, and that we can get there again, and be better than before.
ADHDMomof2
A learning oppurtunity...
Submitted by c ur self on
We all are at different places, and even though so many of us have smiled or cried, when we read stories about how our relationships can mirror each others so closely...the truth is we all deal differently with life issues...It's obvious people get on this site for different reason's...Some more desperate than others...So if I read rude or not so nice comments by someone who daily deals with a spouse with add/adhd I try to be sympathetic...What makes this site as wonderful as it has been for me is the diversity, its been a great teacher for me...JJ and adhdmom u both are great reasons why this site has been good for me...and I would venture to say others also...
thanks
Submitted by kellyj on
thanks c ur self for the words of encouragement.......it really helps me too to get a difference in my own perspective. Your posts clearly show your strength of character as well.
Me Too with a Big But in There
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm laughing as that came out so I just left it. (no inferences..ha ha)
The big but is the whole zero sum thing......this get reallys dicey when you start keeping track of who did what like a score card. I call it "the slate".....when the slate gets pulled out and the list of everything you ever did wrong gets thrown into an argument. there's no winning there......so I hesitate when I start thinking about who did what to who and which one is worse...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my two cents
Submitted by kathy6521 on
I have lurked here a while, even posted a couple of times, but I must say that reading what both sides have to say has helped me more than any advice I've received. My husband's symptoms are somewhat different than the majority of ADHDers seem to have. He is a very quiet, gentle man who never complains. Knowing what's going on in his head is extremely difficult and until I came to this site I didn't have a clue. I can see myself in many posters behavior towards the anger, hurt and frustration they feel, but I never realized I was doing the same until I read their posts. That made me step back and say, whoa, I need to change that. On the other side, I get terrific insight from the ADHD post, whether they are positive or negative. I ask my husband does he do this or does he feel that, and again, it helps me adjust my views and reactions. Our relationship has improved tremendously over the last year or so, though it is far from perfect. I have done so much research on dealing with ADHD but in the end it wasn't my husband that needed fixing...it is me. Thank you so much to all the posters.
New and Uncertain
Submitted by cmjecamp on
I have had the opportunity to browse this site and have really gleaned from hearing both sides. It helps to hear from those that have had the opportunity to be medicated and those that are still in the scared, frustrated and uncertain place of what is happening in their marriage and to their children. I find myself in that very same place. I have a few colorful words I would like to display about my recently diagnosed un-medicated ADHD H. I am searching for answers and unfortunately the status quo just does not apply to these types of issues. I am on the brink of losing friendships and have little I can grab information from to help better prepare my heart, my children and ultimately their dad for the course of our lives.
Today I am dealing with my 11 y Daughter telling her dad yesterday he needed to move out. In short, he had a horrible episode yesterday demanding that I let him out of our car when on a freeway that hits speeds of 75 - 80 and super curvy. He would not hear reason nor allow me ample time to get down the hill.. Instead he demanded I stop the car and let him out. I protested a little more until he put his hand on my gear shift stating he would put the car in reverse if I didn't let him out NOW. What does one do? My heart sank. My son began to plead with his dad to stop but my H was in an ADHD rage and wasn't hearing me or my children cries.. So, I risked it. I found a spot to pull off and let him out of the car. I hated leaving him there but more importantly I hated seeing my 12 y son go into a full emotional breakdown. When does enough become enough? When is love just not strong enough? When do I become legally responsible to protect my children? I love my H but he is yet to take the steps to see a dr. that will begin prescribing meds. Our counselor has told him numerous times to get the appointment.
I say all that to say this... my friends do not understand what is happening in my home. They think I am an idiot for staying and they certainly are uneducated about how severe this problem can become. I too have to admit I learned a lot today about the anger one can display when having ADHD and I actually feel a little better. Without the ability to obtain and read others experiences on this site would be a true travesty to those who love someone with ADHD as well as for those with ADHD. It is necessary to be able to see both sides. We are not on opposite teams but the same team trying to make life work together. Please do not go private. Please continue to allow an open forum.
yes, please keep open forum
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you cmjecamp, for stating that we need an open forum. I have read some posts from people who are venting rather harshly, but I also understand the anger and frustration behind what they're saying. I want the ADHD people to be able to say things freely without feeling intimidated, because THOSE posts are incredibly informative and helpful. Maybe it would be great if they had their own thread on here, where those with ADHD are the ONLY ones who get to post on it. (with no fear of rebuttal) I agree with you when you said that it would be a travesty if we couldn't hear from both sides.
My family and friends also do not understand what is happening in my home, and I feel so alone and isolated, and this site has been the ONLY thing that has connected me to others. I know that seems like an extreme statement but unfortunately it's true. A few minutes ago, I just made an appointment for my ADHD husband and I to go see an adult ADHD behavioral therapist. This is the last ditch effort on my part to try and salvage something from this marriage. If my husband won't believe it or do what's necessary to work with his ADHD, then it's over. I can totally say this decision has been made "not in anger", but with defined purpose, and I wouldn't have been able to get to this point without the help of this website.