I spend a lot of time helping non-ADD spouses understand how to interpret their ADD husband’s actions (or, more frequently, inactions – a word I use without judgment.) I think it’s time to write a piece for the ADD male about what non-ADD women want. Perhaps you’ve seen the movie “What Women Want”? This is what I think you would hear if you were Mel Gibson and could hear your wife’s thoughts.
Thoughts and actions are not equally satisfying: You may be thinking about me a lot, but when you are off in your own world, or distracted by something else, I have no way of knowing that. To me, it feels as if you almost never think of me. It makes me sad. In the future, can you take a few seconds and show me through actions, not thoughts, that you are thinking of me? A short kiss, an “I love you” or some other action will mean a lot to me.
I really don’t like being a nag, but can’t figure out a more effective way to get your attention: People with ADD are content to be off in their own world. That’s okay most of the time, but if I had wanted to be completely ignored, I wouldn’t have gotten married. Over the years, I’ve learned that the easiest (notice, I’m not saying “best”) way to get your attention is to be in your face and nag you or express anger. I bet you don’t like this, and I sure don’t! Help me stop this pattern by setting up a cue that we agree upon. When I really need you’re attention, I’ll use this cue…and you’ll agree to stop what you are involved with, and pay attention. I promise not to abuse this – and we’ll get along so much better!
I love you a lot, but wonder if you love me: People without ADD need positive, physical reinforcement. I want to think that you love me, but when you get distracted by just about everything but me, it’s hard to keep thinking I’m one of your priorities. Why should a car, or a computer, or a game be more important than me? As hard as I try to not take this personally, sometimes I just can’t. I need some time, every week, when you are focused on just me – nothing else. Your effort to do this will tell me that you do love me, and will make me feel so much better and happier! Let’s take some time right now and schedule some time together.
I want to show you my love, but my anger is getting in the way: I love you. A lot. I envision a future where you’ve addressed some of your ADD symptoms – and I’ve addressed my bad responses to them – so that we can have fun and enjoy each other again. But we need to work together on this, not fight each other because there’s too much anger and frustration on both sides right now. Can we work together? Please?
I’m working really hard at this relationship, but sometimes despair because it doesn’t feel to me like you are, too: I’m not asking that we meet in the exact middle. But sometimes I despair that we’ll never meet at all! I need attention, and one form of attention is having you take my needs seriously enough to show an effort in my direction. This gets back to the “thoughts and actions” are not the same as ideas notion. I want to be happy around you (and you want me to be happy around you – it’s so much easier that way!) but it’s hard to keep always trying without seeing any reciprocal action. Can we agree on one thing that you’ll work on for me and make a plan for how that will happen? Then I’ll feel happier, which will make me be happier, which will benefit us both.
We both have our strengths and weaknesses: You probably think that all I ever do is tell you what you’re doing wrong and that this somehow means that I think I’m perfect. I apologize for nagging you, and I don’t think I’m perfect (the nagging is proof I’m not!) Let’s acknowledge that we are both people, inherently not perfect, and make a plan to get around those things one or both of us isn’t so strong at. Solutions might include changing who does what, or hiring outside help.
I’m sorry that I’m angry: I hate feeling angry all the time. It’s starting to really make me dislike myself, in fact. I understand why I feel angry – our relationship isn’t going in the direction I thought it would. You’re probably angry about this, too. I badly want to work through my anger – and to have you admit, and work through – yours. This will take some behavior changes on both sides…and perhaps some professional help, but let’s make it a mutual goal to work through it – for our (non-angry and potentially wonderful) future. A good first step will be for me to learn how to accept my past anger, forgive myself, and move on. Would you consider doing this, too?
I want to have fun! What happened to the days when we loved spending time together? Our life is too serious and angry right now. Let’s schedule some fun stuff together (and get a sitter if we need to). The crazier, and the further away from our everyday lives, the better!
I want you to want me: We’re having some problems right now, which may affect our sex life, but I really long for the days when sex was fun, and exciting, and I felt loved and safe with you. I want you to want me sexually, and when we get rid of some of the anger, and I feel more confident that you can show me you love me, can we smooth things out sexually? I really want that. Maybe we can start with smaller signs of affection? Or maybe just go have some great sex…right now!
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Comments
Thank you!
Submitted by Katharine (not verified) on
this is some great
Submitted by allie12491 on
Melissa, these buckets
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
Great post
Submitted by Grafter on
non -ADD partner
Submitted by Bill3619 (not verified) on
I just got on this sight.I have no idea which way to go.I was diagnosed 8 months ago, so this is all very new to me.My wife has made many of the same comments as all of the wifes posting here.Any help would be soooo greatly appreciated.(ADD and Non-ADD comments are all welcome)
What non-ADD women want
Submitted by Tired (not verified) on
What non-ADD women want
Submitted by Mylank on
anger
Submitted by celarbo (not verified) on
Ok, I agree with you Celarbo....
Submitted by Cinimonstyk on
I read the post on what we non-adders really want....and it's not more sex or attention or time with someone we don't have a positive image about. That's the LAST thing I want. I want stability and consistancy....the ability to trust what he says will actually happen. Follow through, I want to believe in him again. I want the cyclical mistakes to stop and when he tells me he gets it or understands that 2 weeks later we don't end up at square one fighting the same battles again. I want the burdens of my doing everything to be lifted, for him to take up his cross and not make me always have to "follow up" after him like he's my 12 yr old. I want the security of knowing that he has our best interest at heart, I don't want to have to worry that he's making stupid decisions again. I don't always want to brace for the worst because I've learned from experience that's what I'll get, I want to let my guard down to be a lovable wife....
I WANT A GROWN MAN....not a little boy. I want my husband that I once loved and respected back!
Can I have a slice of that please!?!??!?!
Ok, I agree with you Celarbo...
Submitted by brejask on
You couldn't of said it better for me. This is exactly what I feel. I see not future for retirement for us. He can't seem to stay out of debt.
reply to skjaerb
Submitted by newfdogswife on
I'm right there with you!!! Our future doesn't look real bright for retirement either. My husband can't seem to stay out of debt. Can always come up with something that he just has to have. Although I must say that this problem has gotten a little better. At the time of his diagnosis of ADHD, plus hitting the "BIG 50" and going through somewhat of a mid-life crisis, I hit him between the eyes with our financial crisis, also. It wasn't pretty but I think some reality finally sunk in. We've made great progress in paying down the debt but still have a ways to go. At least now, he "is" trying to save some money for our rainy days.
In reply to Cinimonstyk
Submitted by cmosher51 on
Oh my lord, you just said exactly what I have been thinking. It's definitely not more sex or attention. It's stability and consistancy. Yes, yes, yes. I have been saying that to myself and to others, "I want a grown man..... not a little boy." Why don't they get it??? My husband just gets mad and starts saying "I have issues with you too." It's like he doesn't want this all to be his fault. He can't be a man and step up to the plate and not yell in front of the kids. He can't even do that.
Thank you cinimonstyk
Submitted by Jamk4ever on
i can't tell you how comforting it feels to know I'm not alone. I feel like non ADD spouses suffer from closet abuse. We are abused! I'm so tired,exhausted from the stress of my husbands cyclical mistakes. He refuses to create new habits that will Change the outcomes. I can't depend, rely or feel safe with him. His decisions to fight every positive change hurt me for years. Now I'm just turned off. How can I want to make love with someone I don't admire? This article is unrealistic. Thank you for addressing the real concerns of non ADD spouses in your post!!!!!!!! Thank you! I'm not alone, this is real! It's happening to others, my husband always makes me feel crazy or ridiculous. Even when he causes huge financial stress and I'm the one that pays the bills. This is real, we're not alone.
Hello Celarbo & Cinimonstyk
Submitted by BritGirl on
I've just found this article and comments a few years later...well seven years later! I live in England and Adult AD/HD is just beginning to be really recognised. My 47 year old husband was diagnosed 4 months ago following a 'breakdown' a year ago. He has been prescribed medication which he takes but there are very few specialist psychologists or counsellors to see on NHS or privately...we're currently waiting to see a professional in London. He/we did see CBT counsellors but they just didn't get AD/HD and frankly were quite patronising or thought I as a) a woman b) a neurotypical adult should effectively find better ways to be responsible for everything in our relationship. One of the key issues for us is that I am effectively responsible for everything in our relationship and whilst I'm pretty damn good at it, I don't want to be - it comes at the expense of having a marriage, a personal life of my own, exhaustion from holding back the chaos and in bad days utter despair and disillusionment of my own self. I have returned to full time work as my husband was unable to work during breakdown/through and this has further isolated me from friends as I've literally no time to socialise or even chat on phone. We have a 10 month old baby boy, our miracle after 15 years of infertility (I'm 45) and my husband is a great Dad; fun and also a happy nappy changer...I just have to remember to text him to feed our baby (before he gets to howling!)
I'm hoping that even though your comments are from several years ago you're still active on the site and perhaps can share some of your experiences with me and any advice... x
I'll also join in a more current thread and am going to check out Gina Pera's site too.
how about add women and non-add men?
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
Help is out there
Submitted by Fran on
both spouses with attentional issues
Submitted by ochnocon on
Hope for ADD Families
Submitted by Fran on
Or women and non-ADD women for that matter...
Submitted by Miss Lynx (not verified) on
i agree that we all could
Submitted by oh look a shinn... on
i agree that we all could benefit from reading this. The wording is gender specific - but it also applies to all - i think at least.
As a quiet suggestion- it would be nice to occasionally see more gender netural - or non specific (gender) terms on this site.
I am sorry to hear your relationship didn't work out- its been some time since your post - best of luck
(from another member on this site - whos is canadian - and in a female same-sex relationship where both partners are ADHD :)
how about add women and non-add men?
Submitted by Mylove4candk on
2nd Marriage, Blended Family
Submitted by Iris (not verified) on
Blended FAmilies
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Has your husband read any of Dr. Hallowell's books? If not, this would be the time to start, I think. He would be ahead if he could differentiate between "garden variety growing up disobediance" and "I didn't get that done because I was distracted and have ADHD disobedience".
I started out as a pretty tough disciplinarian, but have mellowed over the years as I have learned more about ADHD and the needs of kids who have it. They need patience (this is trying sometimes, as you know!) and love, and a "safe" place. But that said, they also do need consequences because some day they will be out in the world and the world has consequences. Better that they figure out how to deal while still in your protective cocoon before they are out of the house...so you may find that you may need to determine where to draw some tough lines, too.
Here's a story that might illustrate. My daughter used to be late for the bus pretty much every day. She tried multiple alarms, I tried yelling at her. I tried begging her. But many mornings I found myself jumping in the car to drive her to school. Finally, when she was in 9th grade, her doctor pointed out that this was a terrible way for everyone to start the day - way too stressful for us both - and suggested that I stop giving her a backup plan. She suggested that if Kat missed the bus she should have to ride her bike the 4 miles to school.
This was hard for me to contemplate, but it was harder to think about stressing out every morning, so we tried it, with a modification...if she missed the bus she would have to get herself to a different stop about 4 blocks away where the bus arrived 15 minutes later. If she missed that, it was the bike.
After having to walk to the other stop several times in the middle of winter she started paying attention to her alarms, and managed (if I made her breakfast to go) usually to get to her own stop (right next to our house). It was hard for me to watch her struggle, but in the end she learned some valuable skills. And, I admit, I did drive her a couple of times (but only a couple) in the winter when she missed both busses because I knew she was trying really hard and for the most part successful.
Moral of the story - a good crock pot is one in which all the flavors blend together. See what you can do to make sure you're not enabling your kids, and see if your husband is willing to learn a bit more about ADHD. Who knows, maybe as he learns he'll benefit, himself.
Melissa Orlov
the care and feeding of a non-add spouse
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
"relationships"
Submitted by annie on
no relationship
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
You don't mention whether or not you've sought out the assistance of a professional counsellor for your grief and, perhaps, to explore why you aren't able to connect. If you haven't done so, I would suggest it. ADHD shouldn't prevent you from having relationships, but perhaps a poor family situation has made connection more difficult for you?
Connection is really, really important to your mental and physical health. Since you seem to wish to be connected, I think continuing to pursue what isn't working for you is worthwhile. If you haven't tried a counsellor, please do!
Melissa Orlov
counseling
Submitted by annie on
Annie
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Wow! What a lot of effort you've already put in! I'm going to forward your post to Dr. Hallowell and see if he has any suggestions. Given that it is almost the holiday and I know he is out of town, it may be a bit before he replies, though.
Melissa Orlov
OMG this is exactly what I
Submitted by kiana1287 on
"It's Not My Fault, So Deal With It"
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Are you on antidepressants as a result of being in a relationship with someone who is so unfeeling as to tell you "just deal with it"?!
In all seriousness, if you read further in this site you'll find lots of my responses talk specifically about the need for the ADHD person to take responsibility not only for their ADHD symptoms but also for the effect that those symptoms have on their spouse/partner.
Here's one post I put up that you may want to read - it's all about how both partners need to be responsible.
Let me see if I can put this in a way that makes sense. Your partner is right - having ADHD is not his fault. But is he also wrong - not dealing with having ADHD is totally his fault. No excuses for "deal with it" mentality in a "partnership" - that's not a partnership, that's a master and a slave.
So, as you progress through this relationship, start to stand up for yourself in a constructive way. Open up the channels of communication better so that he can't just shut you down with a "deal with it". Make sure that he hears you and starts responding to you. If he can't do that, find someone who will really be a "partner" to you.
As for the sex, were you attracted to him before you started the anti-depressants? If so, talk with your doctor about trying different anti-depressants. There may be some that will not affect your libido so much. It's at least worth a try, as this seems to be negatively impacting both of you.
Melissa Orlov
SOOOOOO Angry!
Submitted by Tamara (not verified) on
Glad You Found This Site
Submitted by Katherine on
Soooooo angry too
Submitted by lindyone on
I understand exactly what you are talking about, I think about it all the time. Can I let this anger go and how do I move forward? I just wanted you to know that I am in the same situation If I get any good tips I will let you know
Sooo Angry too
Submitted by kjprimrose on
I have the exact intense feelings for my spouse that has poisoned my love for him. While he loves me completely living with him can sometimes be hell. Mood swings, hyper-focus, fun husband or sharp toned husband. I never know. I am new to this site as well and I can't tell you how much it means to not be alone. I didn't sign up to be a nag or to be the house manager 24/7 but that is what has happened. How can I move forward is always my big question when I'm hit by a brick wall every time I let my defenses down. Its not a happy place for either of us but I can't seem to change in order for him to recognize the real wife is still right here, wanting to hold his hand and actually have sex. But he can't see it anymore, how truly sad.
Sex and ADD
Submitted by amyg on
Sex and ADD and Kids
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
If I had to guess, I would say that your issue isn't ADHD, but rather the fact that you now have your first child. This is unbelievably common, and can be fixed. You may want to consult your doctor about it for some tips.
A few things are going on here. Most likely, your first priority has shifted from him to your child. You aren't aware of the effect this may have, since this feels natural (if we weren't wired to do this, none of our squalling kids would survive to their first birthdays!) All joking aside, your husband has been pushed aside as the one and only human priority in your life. I'm guessing that the amount of time you are "intimately" involved with your child is significantly greater than the intimacy you are sharing with your husband right now.
Second, he has just watched you go through this huge, perhaps ungainly, physical change. Many men find they don't think of their sex-kitten wife the same ever again after this (there are probably all sorts of psychological theories about this...) He needs to ease back into understanding that you are still the same woman you were...only better.
Third, you may be more emotional than you were and, unless you are unique in the universe, you are certainly more tired than you were. So is he, for that matter. "Tired" and "sex" don't mesh very well. For that matter, "tired" and "ADD" don't mesh very well, either. Much easier to get distracted.
Fourth, he may have some concern about whether or not he might hurt you (though that may have vanished by now).
Get your doctor(s) involved, and take some time to put your baby SECOND, not first. If you are not breast feeding, take a REALLY, REALLY fun, romantic trip for several days and leave the baby with a friend, family member or professional baby sitter. Try to jump start your sex life (without pressure that will have him worrying about whether or not he might perform) or, at least, jump start your intimacy. From there, sex will follow.
Melissa Orlov
He doesn't even think about it!!
Submitted by SunnyNights0909 on
I know this all too well
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I'm new to this forum, but wanted to comment on this topic. Yes, I've experienced my adhd husband pretty much turning the sex spigot off shortly after we got married. We've been married 26 years, and the past 10 years we only have sex 3 to 4 times a year. It's AWFUL. It doesn't matter how many things I've done to try to make it exciting or fun or whatever. He AVOIDS it at all costs. I've always kept myself in pretty good shape, I've tried to be understanding and patient, but me not getting ANY of my sexual needs met has been very, very frustrating. I've run out of ways to explain things to him. A counselor asked me if I had done that, and I told her I had explained things in so many different ways, that I've run out of ways TO explain what I need, what I want, and even just plain what I would LIKE.
His refusal to accomodate ANYthing sexually has become a real sore spot in our marriage. And, his REFUSAL to even discuss the subject is beyond comprehension. What do you do in THOSE cases? He has told me that sex is a "natural" thing and shouldn't be planned" out, even though our counselor told him otherwise. This is one subject he simply refuses to deal with at all. It has made me feel very unloved, unwanted and rejected as a wife and as a woman. I've looked for help and yet havent been able to find it on this subject.
dede
Refuses Sex
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Your counselor is probably the best person to give you advice on this. Sounds as if the sex issues are related to something else either with him, or with the two of you as a couple. Or, possibly a result of either depression or a side effect of meds he might be taking?
In the meantime, though it's not a great long-term substitute, I'm hoping you are pleasuring yourself, at least.
re: wit's end
Submitted by sandy (not verified) on
To Sandy
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
First, keep up the therapy, particularly if the person is familiar with ADD issues (if they aren't, then perhaps you need a therapist who is, since they seem to be playing a role here). Therapists will let him talk for a while, but then a good therapist will start to get at the issues...he/she won't be fooled by your husband's claim that it's all your fault. Every therapist KNOWS that it is NEVER just one person's fault...EVER!
Meds do work, but research shows over and over again that meds alone do not work nearly as well as medication and "behavior therapy". That is, someone needs to help your husband understand how to move forward constructively with his life now that the meds take away some of the worst ADD symptoms that have been getting in the way. (And, by the way, if he still has anger issues, then it sounds as if his treatment is not complete...) Perhaps a coach can help, or a therapist, or a professional organizer....depending upon his specific issues.
So, is he currently off the meds right now? Some meds do affect blood pressure, I believe (but I'm not a doc - I could be wrong) but there are others. Ask him to explore his options with his doctor, since his ability to control his ADD is critical to you and your relationship. They ought to be able to figure something out. Exercise and diet also play a role in blood pressure, so he may want to talk with his doc about that, too.
Your husband is just wrong when he says he has no responsibility for his ADD. He has no responsibility for having ADD, but he does have a responsibility to work to control the symptoms that get in the way of the two of you having a healthy relationship. Perhaps it's time to communicate that more clearly to him? At the same time, ask your therapist what he/she notes in how the two of you interact. You don't want to be contributing to his issues by enabling him/ mothering him/ nagging him, etc.
Let us know how it goes...and share what you learn, if you can, so others can get the benefit of your experiences.
Melissa Orlov
I need coping tips!!
Submitted by tryingtocope on
Coping with Rude Behavior
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Right now, and into the immediate future, I would focus on yourself - having the baby, and getting through the emotional ups and downs that come with birth and hormone fluctuations.
After that, I think you are allowing him to treat you in a way that shouldn't be acceptable. He may want to chew you out about why you didn't notice where he put his sunglasses, but let's face it, you aren't his slave. His sunglasses are his responsibility. If you happen to be able to help him locate them when he asks nicely for your assistance, that's great, but you are not his slave nor his wardrobe director.
You, and your children, deserve to be respected. Your husband, too, deserves respect...in other words, once you get past your pregnancy, the next step is going to be standing up for yourself...nicely but firmly. It's a little bit like kids - if you continue to let them whine and show them that that is the way to get things, they will. This isn't because they are kids, it's because they are human...
Don't fall into the trap of being mean, or angry or depressed. Conduct your business with the highest standards - the idea of "treat your neighbors as you would like to be treated yourself" also holds true in marriages. Treat your spouse as you would like him to treat you.
As for depression... if you continue to feel depressed, please go see a doctor about it and try some meds once you are no longer nursing. Anti-depressants can make turning things around easier if you tolerate them.
So, you are responsible for you...and your kids...and being the good, thoughtful, strong person you can be.
Melissa Orlov
Thank You...I will keep trying.
Submitted by tryingtocope on
I remember this phase...
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
History Just Keeps on Repeating!! Need ideas...
Submitted by tryingtocope on
Dear Melissa,
Thank you so much for your previous response (3 years ago). I am not sure exactly why I haven't been back to this site in so long. I just can't believe that when I just looked back on my old post, it might as well be as if I wrote it yesterday. Some things have changed since then - we never have sex, he maxed out my credit cards, blew through our 401ks and children's college plans due to his failing business, and instead of crying in the corner because of the way he treats me, I have become very angry. Everything is still my fault in his eyes. He says that he is 'done' with this marriage. However, he finally agreed to go to counseling - his friends had a sort of "intervention" with him because of the way he treats me. They noticed it and told him to at least try for our children's sake. So he went. I even found a male marriage counselor at his request because he said a female counselor would 'unfairly' side with me. The counselor actually did his dissertation on ADHD and reconfirmed that my husband has it. (From time to time my husband decides he doesn't have ADHD and decides to go off his meds). Husband didn't follow any of the counselor's advice and said it was a waste of time and money. So we have stopped going.
I am sad to say that I don't see how this marriage can work. I feel like I'm living with a roommate/annoying brother/3rd child that berates me in front of our kids, pushes my buttons and basically blames me for all of our problems. I feel defeated. I feel like there is no stability in my life. I feel like I put my life in the hands of someone who is unable and unwilling to care for me. I know he loves our children, but I don't like the way he treats me in front of them (and especially NOT in front of them, as things get worse after they're in bed). I am angry at myself for letting this go on.
One thing I have done for myself is to go back to school to pursue a Master's Degree. It will take a few years to get back into the work force (making decent money). I need to stay in this marriage until I am finished with school, but I need some sort of mental help to keep it together. How can I keep my sanity? I need to hold it together for my two amazing children (age 5 and 3). I am not sure how to do this.
Any ideas?
Thank you in advance.
Burnt out
Submitted by 5stargemz on
wow, hit the nail on the head whydontcha~!
Submitted by sister-red on
No Sex Drive
Submitted by Mrs. Q (not verified) on
No Sex Drive
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
It's very common that the non-ADD spouse loses interest in sex. If feeling like a parent isn't enough (who wants to have sex with a child?!) then feeling as if he ignores you every moment of the day except when he wants sex will build up a well of resentment sure to ruin your romance.
Your feelings of loneliness are actually your worst issue, I think. One can live without sex for a while (there's always masturbation) but isolation is awful, not to mention proven bad for your health.
There are a few things that you need to know, right now. First, it is likely that your husband's lack of attention towards you (which is making you lonely) is not intended to hurt you. Chances are good (unless your relationship is really, really in a bad place) that if you ask him today if he loves you his answer would be "yes" or "of course"! His lack of attention is likely due to two things - his ADD symptom of distractability (which means he's often elsewhere mentally) and, probably by now, your responses to him, which are causing him to further distance himself from you. I am going to suggest that you read some specific posts to help you start learning more about how all this works (wish I had my book ready...this is something I address in Section 1!) and see if it may help you a bit. So, try these posts:
What Lack of Focus Means
The ADHD Marriage Balancing Act
The Care and Feeding of the Non-ADD Spouse
The last will help you see that you really aren't alone...
This is a start...there are many who are dealing with this issue at the site...if you explore you will find more.
Melissa
ADD spouse response
Submitted by ecsmart (not verified) on
I find myslef in tears
Submitted by stressed out (not verified) on
wonderful post, wish I'd found it earlier
Submitted by BreadBaker on
Wonderful post, wish I'd found it earlier, but I think it's too late now.
The Care and Feeding of an ADD Spouse
Submitted by Hopeful 9009 on
Melissa,
I totally related to your article The Care and Feeding of a Non-ADD Spouse. I was hoping you had an article that related to the Care and Feeeding of an ADD Spouse. I am interested in hearing the ADD Spouses perspective in hopes that it would give me some insight to my husband.
Hopeful 9009
after reading your article
Submitted by Jelly888 on
I need to talk to the author. Please contact me by email, thank you.
Care and Feeding of ADHD Spouse
Submitted by george on
Melissa has already written on this topic. It is a chapter of her book that she completed writing and is now busily editing. It is scheduled to be published in the Fall.
thank you
Submitted by xois on
This has been enlightening. I have been with my husband for 14 years, married for 6. It has been extremely difficult from the beginning. I thought I could cope, especially with his non physical nature unless sex was included...no cuddling, kissing, we've never held hands...never really sat on the sofa together to even watch a movie. This has been very hard on me, and painful. And I have withdrawn completely. I've tried to talk about it, but this isn't something you can talk away...it is part of my essential nature...and ADD is part of his. he has recently been diagnosed. He is trying to work out his meds.
We have 2 children (4 and 15months), and I do absolutely EVERYTHING when it comes to them...When I ask for help or try to point it out, he just says...well you're the mother. It is infuriating. He says "I don't know how you survive on so little sleep"...but with no help (he does laundry, though I have to put it away and occasionally he cooks supper even though he gets home before I get home with the kids), I have to stay up late to finish everything for the household AND have a little time for myself (I knit and garden). I work full time. I am not a housewife.
He says I have a hair trigger...I see now that I am deeply angry about these 2 things in particular. As others have stated, I don't have a partner -- I am totally burnt out, and feel smothered. when I try to express how I am feeling, how I see things, i cry and he says it is a sign that I am emotionally immature...how does that create a safe place for me to express myself. it is difficult to have empathy when when I feel so lonely and isolated. I am working on the stuff I need to work on with my therapist...but I cannot take it all on me, the blame and the work.
Been there, done that
Submitted by Sueann on
Are you sure you're not married to my ex husband? He was exactly like this. He took me to a house that had no kitchen (stove, sink and refrigerator in an otherwise empty room, no counters or cupboards) and told me that was what he could afford and if I wanted a better kitchen I'd have to go back to work to pay the higher rent. My daughter was the same age as your younger child. My workday was half an hour longer than his. He wouldn't pick the child up from daycare or do anything. In the 3 months I worked there, he did one load of laundry and, I think, washed the dishes once. His argument was that I earned less, so in order to make our contributions equal I had to do all the housework too.
No affection? Check. Not even watching TV together? Check.
I don't think my ex has ADD (maybe, since one of our kids does). I think this is just male crap. I hated it, I eventually decided since I was doing all the work anyway I might as well leave him. He rejected counseling. He refused to go but let me make the appointments, then was "too busy" when the time came.
I don't know what the answer is. His behavior could be the result of ADHD or he could just be a jerk. I never found the answer for myself and spent a long time as a single mother. I am glad you are getting help for yourself.
The Role of the Non-ADHD Spouse
Submitted by Engineeral (not verified) on
I was diagnosed in January 2011 at age 55. The diagnosis helps make sense of the issues that crop up in my relationship with my wife; and help me to be more aware of when the ADHD symptoms occur. I am trying Vyvanse but it isn't helping yet, so maybe a higher dose will help. Anyway, after reading some books and seeing my counselor, my wife now seems to be saying making things better is all up to me. "It's my problem and why should she have to do all this reading and coping?" There is much truth in that concept -- that I have to take responsibility for what *actions* I do (or don't do).
But the tough-love aspect of her attitude seems harsh to me. I *have* been trying to do better. My wife says she won't do the nagging she once did, so that's a positive thing - but what role does the non-ADHD spouse have in optimally making things better. Is it all on me?
It is not all on you
Submitted by conflicted on
I appreciate your honesty. My husband was just diagnosed this spring with ADD at age 51 and has resisted changing in any way. He continues to blame everyone around him and has taken no ownership of his actions. I have read numerous books on ADD. From my perspective, your wife is part of the solution to make your marriage work and become stronger. It would be of great benefit to her to read and learn as much as she can about ADD. I continue to learn more daily. I have come to understand my husband's behaviors, although having ADD does not excuse some of them. In order to learn how to communicate effectively and understand each other needs, she has to share in the work and she needs to educate herself on ADD and she needs to look at her own behaviors. You may suggest this site as a place to start. It will give her a place to see she is not alone and it can be a great resource for answers to any of her questions. I commend you on the work you have taken on. Keep it up!
That is a tough question in
Submitted by Pjloops on
non add husband
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
Any hope?
Submitted by Andi on
I have been in a relationship with an ADHD guy for two years. He's sexy, smart, funny and kind. But I feel I rarely *see* him, he's not *there* - barely any conversation, hardly any sex, I have to beg him to show me affection - as someone here wrote, I have to schedule time for him to show me love - and I know he loves me, but it's not enough to know intellectually... I have been doubting myself for the better part of our relationship as I know I have abandonment issues. I thought, is it just me? We're just different, maybe I have to work harder on myself... And then I came upon sites for ADHD adults and realized my bf is a typical case.
My solution has been mostly to shut off to save myself (I'm already experiencing burn-out symptoms) after the tearful fight - begging - explaining phase. I am still often patient and kind, but there is this simmering hurt inside.
I showed him one of these sites two days ago and he recognized himself. Now he's coping with the fact that on one hand, he has an explanation for many difficulties in his life, and on the other, that he's "mentally ill", and there is something *wrong* with him.
The truth is, our relationship is nearing the marriage and kids stage, and I would like to take the plunge, but I feel so unsafe in this relationship emotionally. I'm also 34 and desperate for children. Can I hope that if he gets treatment things ACTUALLY GET BETTER? In a lasting way? Or shall I prepare myself for separation for my own sake?
a little hope
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
Thank you
Submitted by Andi on
Thank you for that inspiring comment. This is really the best I can hope for if I stay with him, the man I love dearly.
My instincts have screamed at me SO loud several times in the part two years to get the hell out though. While I still have the chance to be truly happy and have non-ADHD children. That actually scares me the most right now. That staying with him would mean actively deciding to bring children who will likely have ADHD into the world. Do I want that? Would they want that? And a spouse whose parenting skills would make things worse, not better?
How can I be madly in love with this man and feel utterly unsafe with him emotionally at the same time?
Thanks to all posting here – I feel so validated right down to the cabinet doors and the no sex/bad sex and the anger and the loneliness... and that I haven’t just been imagining it all, and it’s not just me being needy/difficult, thank you, THANK YOU
I would never advocate a
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
My Wifes efforts
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
I would like to change my
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
Hi Mr. Hope Not sure I agree
Submitted by MagicSandwich on
Hi Mr. Hope
Not sure I agree that ADD-ers don't know the frustration they cause? Some do and some don't and some never will. I don't think those type of "Leo Buscaglia " blanket statements apply en mass to a multifaceted disorder like ADHD.
Also your statement that, "Your ADD spouse has to be an amazing forgiver. Then you can forgive yourself for the harm you caused them." as well as "And its hard to forgive yourself." is well, weird. Do you think that the non-add spouse has something to apologize for? Why should the non-ADHD spouse struggle with self-forgiveness? Maybe you have switched the pronouns around because you are in fact the ADD spouse in this scenario writing the words you wish you could hear from your non-ADHD spouse.
It takes two
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
When we loose the ego the wonder of forgiveness becomes clear. The hardest person to forgive is always yourself. In a sense it is the last ego. Any pain even caused unwittingly is something to apologize for. In an ADD relationship the response of the non-ADD spouse can be just as detrimental to the relationship as the ADD itself. It takes two. We realized how we both caused each other pain and how how we both can respond differently to each other so that our love is not damaged. We both have asked each other for forgiveness and assured each other in order to forgive ourselves. I was tested for ADD at the same time my wife was just to be fair. The results were dramatically different. I have no evidence to support this but from your comments alone it seems you have something causing you to want to be noticed. Please be careful how strongly you state your opinions. You may harm those less strong. Dont harm what is happy. You dont have to agree because guess what your opinion, my opinion are not all that important. They are just thoughts, offerings of hope. I described how things worked out for my wife and me. It may be different for other couples. They may quantify their feelings and observations differently. It doesnt make them wrong. I would never want to hurt others by saying their honest feelings being expressed here were weird. Its from their hearts. It s just how they see it. We can all take lessons from multiple viewpoints. No one really has the final and correct words. I found that there was a piece of truth I took from many of the comments here. I did not have to agree with everything they said to benefits from a gem within. These are all voluntary expressions no one is getting paid for their words here. This is a group effort searching for what works. I came to this thread a few months ago in hopeless desperation. I read the weekly ADHD tips and the comments of others and these were a lot of help to me. I saw hope. Now my wife and I are closer than we have ever been. I am grateful that there is such a forum as this to help ADD couples. I want others to have hope where I had none. So I shared my story of success as others have. I wanted to give back to the place that helped my marriage. I look forward to so many years ahead with my dear wife. Please hear the music and sing with us.
both genders
Submitted by amoor983 on
This is almost exactly what male non-ADD spouses want as well. This is my life!
I told my wife "I feel like we are two draft horses, hooked to the same wagon (our goals and dreams), but I am trying to pull forward, and you sometimes pull forward, sometimes veer off to the side , and sometimes yank your head out of the yolk and take off in the opposite direction."
ADD & Marriage
Submitted by UnsureADDer on
Hi - I am having problems with my wife, and much of what is being described above rings home. I currently believe her to be cheating on me (with a woman), as I've come across some text messages that aren't appropriate for friends. I'm aware this woman is a lesbian, and I also suspect that my wife has been lying to me about who she is out with (i.e. saying friends from work rather than this woman). My wife does not admit it, but I just recently found out about this. I ended up texting this person asking her who she is, and some details regarding her sexual communications I read.
That being said, the root cause of this has been brewing over many years. Our early relationship was founded on long distance, where we lived about an hour apart and when we did spend time together is was very discrete with 100% attention to each other. Since we've moved in together and have jobs and lives and things, we've basically just drifted apart. I have some issues myself in the area of stressful jobs with long hours, alcohol, and video game addiction and recently anxiety. I don't technically have ADD or ADHD as far as I know, but I am highly motivated, exceptionally intelligent, and often do many things at once. I am described by co-workers as unfocused (yet effective) and by some friends a hot-mess. At the same time, I am exceptionally organized in my own way and capable of maintaining high paying professional jobs and completing exceptionally rigorous education (4.0, masters, etc). So I never had a work performance problem, but I've kind of known something is off with me for years. Recently, I have had trouble with motivation though - which is hard to explain. Either way, I'm certain my wife isn't getting what she needs out of our relationship, but I'm not sure how to give her what she needs. I somewhat get the feeling that what she wants, is for me to be available all the time, every day and her remedy is for me to not drink or play video games. I inform her that if I were to not do that, I would do other activities. I perpetually have the urge to do something, I cannot not do something. I always have to be walking, reading, playing, something - or otherwise sedated or have worn myself out to the point of I can't do anymore. I like to play video games because it makes this feeling go away; it makes me forget about the doing and the thinking all of the time.
I would also say I struggle socially, I think in part due to anxiety I really didn't understand for years. For a long time I was not very good with casual conversation, and I think I still have issues transitioning from acquaintance to friend. I find my wife often establishes friends with co-workers and others. To me, those relationships never really extend from what they are - co-workers. Perhaps it's a difference between her government job and my professional job - perhaps it's me.
I don't really know what to do with my wife. We're going to talk later. But, she's not the kind of person who is really accepting of "I have a condition, this is how I am". She's just likely to blame me and get mad and that's it. I do see a psychiatrist for my anxiety, I have thought about mentioning this to her - but didn't want to overwhelm her with saying I might have ADD/ADHD and anxiety. I dealt with the major issue at hand which was not being able to sleep due to anxiety.
Which is why I am here, because I don't really know who to talk to about this....how do I know for sure if I might have ADD/ADHD? And if so, how do I even know if knowing that will help my marriage issues?
The care and feeding of a non-ADHD spouse...
Submitted by Mr. Moo on
Being the Sun
Submitted by Leonardis on
Mr. Moo,
I guess I would like to be the Sun to my prospective. Your post give pause for self-reflection. But I am ever the skeptic, wondering how my spouse might have engineered this thing to manipulate me.
This has little to do with ADHD and much to do with how hard it is to trust someone in an intimate relationship. I see that people with ADHD share the same basic insecurity. Maybe I sometimes think that my friend has an advantage over me because of the cynicism/apathy that are a part of his coping mechanism. Maybe my desire to "break through" that is narcissistic.
L
Wow
Submitted by Toad39 on
I.m a non-add spouse, been married 18 years. Despair is the only word that describes how I feel. He was diagnosed 2 months after we married - I thought 'ok, we can do this. Lot.s to learn we.ll work together'. He is a very kind & sweet man, is good father, a really good guy. Nothing could have ever prepared me for living this way. I have read everything, tried to help, organize, plan, ignore, let natural consequences happen, I.ve been direct, I.ve been accommodating. I tried to be encouraging & patient (not good at this at all) I begged, asked, screamed for him to do something differently. To get help [more than medication alone, not enough]. The 'help' we got dismissed his Add/inattention & basically said 'You just need to lighten up, he.s a good guy. You.ve got it pretty good'. I was always very open about the fact that at some point I wouldn.t keep living this way. Then about 3.5 years ago - I. Gave. Up. The pain I feel is not because I love him or want his companionship it is because of the rage I feel for being tricked/lied to/deceived because he said 'I know I have some things to work on, I understand, I.m going to start making changes, you wait & see'. I foolishly believed him & that was sick. No more.
Reverse situation
Submitted by Pyrofyter70 on
Reverse is also true
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I wrote this with these genders specified because I feel more in touch with "what women want"...being a woman and all that! But it isn't hard to imagine men wanting exactly the same thing, and if this rang true for you then use these words.
Your wife is in denial. Ask her to take my upcoming couples seminar with you (starts Oct. 1). Seriously. It's a big denial buster (not for everyone, but for most!) It will also show you some of the things you can do better, too. If she's reluctant (many ADHD partners are) tell her that I DON'T pick on people with ADHD in the course...I'm an equal-opportunity 'picker on-er' and that I will teach you both how you can be better with each other. This course is about learning about ADHD partners and what they do AND about learning about non-ADHD partners and what they do, too. If she still doesn't want to join in, I often suggest that you simply say something such as "this is really important to me, and it's only education. Would you try it, simply because I'm asking?" Humility and a request often work.
Ask her as nicely as you can. ADHD doesn't cause divorce...denial does.
awesome words
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
yes
Submitted by doug on
thank you for reposting this, i missed it the first time. dont know how my wife will react to it but sent it to her.
i try to remember that she is trying to help and that she has good reason for her things:
1. i dont like clutter
2. why are you doing that? why didnt you do something else instead? why didnt you do it differently?
3. did you remember to ----?
Endless supply
Submitted by MrsSeeThrough on
Thank you for posting this. I like clear and straight forward practical advise.
I have to admit I just want to pull my hair out (metaphorically) when I read so much about what the Non-ADHD spouse must do.
We are people too. We have our own challenges. We are not an endless supply of ideas, fixes, energy, words, stamina, understading...We simply are not. Too many online sources just validate the idea that we just can not ever do enough. Frankly, that is dangerously close to not being good enough.
I get it, the ADHD spouse has the condition, but it does not stay caged, does it? It becomes a family burden we carry together. And too often, it is so needy an issue that those non-ADHDers find no time left for the care of our own struggles. I often watch my ADHD husband getting helped and having his life profit as mine looses much that mattered to me. And some that I desperately need: To feel safe, financially, from terrifying impulses, from the slides back into starting at what feels like zero, from loosing what is left of my youth untouched by the man with whom I was to share my own intimate self. Feels like to love him well, I must let parts of me die that I should have a right to keep. Feels like I have aged 20 years in 2.
So, I love this list, I do...and I intend to use it. I do need to see more short and simple (or he will not read them) lists for the ADHD partner to help him see his love stands right there,... dare I say? yes, starving.
Simple steps he might be able to successfully take to reclaim romance, trust after all those lies to cover up impulse mistakes and the shame that follows, and fun.
I don't have the grace to live life as a nurse, half-seen, and watch the giggling girl, the woman in me die out. I don't want to be a walking dead.
Yes, but how?
Submitted by Esrakan on
my husband tells me all of these and gets frustrated and depressed and I desperately wish that I didn't ignore him, was more aware of his feelings and could notice and show affection, not forget he had a rough day shortly after finding out, be able to empathize, but every time I hear these complaints we don't get anywhere because I cannot promise to change because I don't believe Its possible, the only thing that may help in my opinion may be medication, is there a way to change/train my brain to remember the priorities and be attentive??
Long-term marriage, spouse newly diagnosed
Submitted by acherylb on
Hubby and I have been married 27 years. He's in his early 60s and was diagnosed with ADHD about a month ago. We were both stunned, but the descriptions fit to a "T" (especially the one in Hallowell's "Delivered From Distraction" chapter 41 from a wife's perspective of what it's like to live with an ADHD spouse took my breath away, it was spot on). He's very involved, interested, and active in his treatment (meds + counseling + books + cognitive behavioral therapy exercises + open and talks to me about his discoveries about himself).
I finally have hope for our future. (I've left three times for short periods in the last two years because I couldn't take it anymore.)
I've edited my post a number of times before posting it because I have so much to get off my chest, but most of it seems to already be posted here and there.
So I'll cut to the chase---I feel like my life is still on "hold" until hubby gets a handle on learning about himself. (It's like he's meeting himself for the first time in 63 years, and the introductions are going at a snail's pace.) He's not a bad man at all, we manage to somehow enjoy each other's company and find things to laugh about, and I loved him deeply at one time. He's merely undermined every single aspect and thread of our relationship here and there over time, especially with how we raise our kids. (I describe my life with him as "death by 10,000 paper cuts.")
What do I do with myself in the meantime? What concrete steps can I take to get to a better version of myself and cope with the occasional shell shocks of realization of aspects of things such as, I didn't think he had impulsivity issues, until I looked back in retrospect and realized that I have been inundated with his impulsivity torpedos on almost a daily basis for nearly our entire relationship, even before the birth of our first daughter when I was no longer shiny and new, and which explains why I mostly feel invisible and am almost constantly tense and on guard at home. (Not at work, just at home.)
How does one who has gone through 27 years with an undiagnosed ADHD spouse start to recover, *and* regain an emotional connection?
long term lonely
Submitted by RT021172 on
45 years married to a nonADHD, ultra giving, endlessly loving wife, the love of my life, may end in failure.
I was diagnosed with ADHD only last year after uncountable visits over the years all of which ended with "your wife is not the problem, it`s you. You need to....... Grow up, be a man, get a grip, etc, etc."
Years of having the same arguments over the same things.
I never had the right tools to sort out my ADHD. I now know why my wife feels desparation, unloved, neglected and ignored. Yea, I really DO understand! Her pain runs deep. We`ve started over so many times.
With my ADHD I feel I we could finally get it right.
I only hope now that we both understand the truth about my ADHD we can connect, but I fear it may only be a dream, left behind just like the 45 years of damage to a broken heart.
Our Adhd really doesn't matter RT....It's about commitment....
Submitted by c ur self on
It's just where we place our priorities!....when I walked into the business I worked at for 39 years, I never questioned what it would take to stay employed, and in good standings....Same when I walk into the house I abide in, as my wife's husband...If my commitment to Love and do the work at home, without excuse, is on the same level that I pursued my Job for $...Then adhd or not, our marriage will be a great one, if she does the same.....
You can't pursue good times, $, hobbies with a vengeance, and then be satisfied w/ a cloud of excuses when it comes to the work at home....Our character only truly comes out, when no one is watching.....
C
brokenhearted...
Submitted by adhdlady on
Never Give Up
Submitted by Mr New Hope on
Mr New Hope...
Submitted by c ur self on
This is awesome...I almost teared up reading your post....It's so encouraging,...Thanks for sharing your feelings....
C
adhdlady...I'm the husband of an adhd wife.....
Submitted by c ur self on
Your husband is a very fortunate man indeed for the fact you were able to even write this sweet post....I'm sorry he is being so negatively impacted...I"ve been a basket case at time over the 9 years of our marriage also...But, the more I learn to accept her realities, and move on with my own life w/o judging hers, or placing expect on her to thing like I do, Or fall to those same expectations from her....We do better...And I do better, less frustration, less negative feelings and emotions....
You talked about the love and passion y'all share....That is so awesome!....I'm a romantic myself.....My wife isn't, she is more of a fun seeker LOL...The last time we made love she was elling me a story about something, sorry I can't remember what it was I'm 60, I was trying to concentrate..LOL..
Her and I have different idea's of fun....Just like right now...She headed off to Nashville after church Sunday w/ a co-worker to stay w/ a friend and watch the eclipse....(nothing wrong with it at all, but, I just had rather had a tooth pulled than to do that)...So I headed to the beach w/ my road bike to ride and hang out on the beach, and eat sea food...As a matter of fact I'm headed to dinner know and to a movie...(skipped lunch, and had a flat on my bike...been a wild day;)....
When she found out I was coming here....She said I might have went w/ you if I had known ( I never decided until she announced her plans, I get tired of setting home)....I said you never asked, and you usually never engage me like I matter, most of the time....You just announce your plans, then ask me I want to come along....I told her that not how it works:)....But, when we don't make a big deal out it....Acceptance.....We learn and grow....I hate arguments, and have decided if that just has to be our reality, I had rather live alone and peaceful....She is listening for the first time in nine years.....and to her credit she is starting to as you say "Get it"....And I am too!
I hope you husband will own his anger....just as you are owning you living of life....As long as we don't blame, and deal w/ our own stuff we have a great chance!
Blessings
C
Dual Diagnosis and An Apology w/ Ackowledgement
Submitted by kellyj on
This is an opportunity to say a couple of things I wasn't able to before. Not knowing what is "wrong"....,.is a real problem. Denial and / or a "covert" agenda is a problem as well, no doubt, But a secret agenda isn't necessarily someone intentionally acting with ill intent.....but it could be depending on the level of deception or what they are after? It's really clear to me as I read these posts, that there appears to be one thing in common and that is at least a commitment and a willingness to stay the distance and work on the symptom of what causes any one of these trouble spots or challenges and to say no one is perfect here is an understatement. I have been resistant to say things at time, and at times it's been very confusing to me since it's really muddies up the wasters......when you have ( two people ) with ADHD and they are "both" doing the same thing to each other or in part.....there is no "non" in the room?
But everyone here with ADHD....appears to have the same sentiments or thinking about this that really do coinsider together and are willing to at least admit where they go wrong or how they have hurt others in the past. My tendency...is to take on responsibility where there is none or to have someone just say so....and I automatically belief them and say "yes" first and 'no" second without questioning and being too trusting all the benefit of me in one respect only in that it does benefit me to be with someone on any level either healthy or not......having a partner or someone who's committed to you in the same way with a promise they intend to keep......is what one might expect, especially since they said those words.
What I can sincerely apologize for is still being somewhat naive or ignorant...and not seeing some things that I didn't recognize as a problem that is not going to change or be different or at least a "belief that it might" and hoping for the best and putting faith and trust forward as a best foot first as a show that you are serious and that your intentions are good or even honest. I suppose you could say, that intentions aren't that difficult to spot once you see them over a long enough period of time.
It takes two. Yes, absolutely..and a willingness to go the distance and a commitment to that singular goal. A person may say what their intentions are and what "my dream" for us is ( mine )......but if that "dream" is all they can see and there is an "agenda unspoken" or for better....and will to go in one direction.....and that direction says "I want this....and I don't care what you want........not that I don't care about you necessarily, but what I want is more important......and I want this, and I'm not getting it. What I don't want is what I'm getting........please fix this for me...so I will not have these things I don't want. I'm waiting. I'm not seeing it yet.......Where's my dinner? Where's what I want? And beyond that.......where's my dinner? This is not my beautiful house, this is not my beautiful husband, this is not my beautiful life? What are these "things" doing in my picture? It's my party, and I can cry if I want to....because this is my party, and I can cry if I want to?"
In my therapists office today....we had a very long session and session that went over time to get him up to speed on all the events.....and D didn't show even though I sent her two clear invitations encouraging her to meet as all 3 of us in a safe conflict free enviroment. This was the first conversation I've had with in a long time where I got to catch him up on a lot of things and connect them all together. We covered a tremendous amount of ground and went over a lot of things personal to my personal story from the past to fill in my thoughts and some blanks that he had proposed a long time ago ( years ) that was all coming back to me and what he said. And I was able to answer these questions he posed to me easily and simply from what I have learned.
I have to say, I share you opinion to a certain degree about driving up to Nashville to see the eclipse and pulling teeth. It was really awesome to see what I saw today, and I was in line with some folks from California at the store who came all the way here to see and drove another 45 mikes south to see the "full eclipse" and the "stars" in the sky? I didn't see the stars from where I was, but it got dark enough and twighlight" or "dimmer switch effect...for about another 20 minutes so a total of about 1/2 hour or the really good stuff? And I saw...."almost the stars" from my front porch right outside my front door just fine. I really did't miss anything and it was quite amazing. But there is no way I would have traveled from California, just to do that or just to see that or even drive another 45 miles south in traffic and snarls of people lining the roads and road closures just to handle all thw traiffic. No thanks, is what I say to that? It simply isn't worth it for me to see more than I saw 99.2% was pretty damn good if you ask me?
And in some ways that is analogous to what my T and I talked about today and I got him all caught up and my thoughts in all of this? What his thoughts were just to condense this all down really boiled down to two things that had to relate to D and what he thought about all of this. As e said it "Self righteousness"...is a major factor for anyone but especially in the case of "us" and D. A second talking point was in relationship to "I want, I don't want, and I don't care" which came out his office and while there D did blurt out....."Yes, that's right....I don't care" as incomplete or as a partial statement of any "goal" or "agenda" or "desire" any of us wants?
As I recalled a man one time....who owned a gym I belonged to and he was the owner and the entire "place" all rolled into one. He was the only empolyee, so he was the owner, employer, and wore all the hats. Any way, I walked up to him at the front desk, since I needed something to work out with or had some problem I needed to be addressed..and I said two words out of my mouth he rudely interupted me and said..."hey, I'm eating here?????" is a short tempered irritated voice. The problem was....he was open for bussiness. He was the owner and he was sitting at the front desk. During bussinss hours.. And saying the same thing as I said to my T after he retorted and rebuffed me as a customer and the fact that I needed something or I couldn't work out was ......"yes, I can see you're eating"...................................silence.....................................................It's the exact same scene from the movie Midnight Cowboy...where "Rizzo" Dustin Hoffman and John Voit are Jay Walking against the cross walk not paying attention and car who had right of way, had to slam the brakes on to avoid hitting them since they should've have been in the cross walk when it says "Don't Walk"..and he was doing it anyway. And then when the driver yells at them for almost hitting them and having to slam the breaks on "just for their specialness's".........Dustin Hoffman yells back....."Hey, I'm walking here.......I'm walking here........" "Yes, I can see that...........clearly you are?"
As my T tied that word self righteous" to a victim I mentioned the drowning victim again...and you're th one who's out there to save them " and they lunge out cna grab you by one hand and pull you down". Sorry, I didn't mean to drown you, but I had to....or I would have died otherwise?
His conclusion and advise basically said......."I see avoidant".....I see what you're saying as far as the "unsaid or unspoken agenda" whether intentional or not...and conflict avoidant on top of it. I see "self righteousness"...and not being completely upfront and an aggressive or stubbornly stance in getting what "I want.....and I don't care what you want......if it stands in the way of what I want.....then I don't want this , or things like this in my way which I told you, I don't care about that or what you want.....it's preventing me from getting what I want..........."hey, I'm eating here.......hey, I walking here......what are you doing??? It's certainly not what I want? I don't want that.....how many times do I have to tell you?
I told my T in relationship to, or my response that I never gave to the guy that owned the gym....."Yes, I can see that? I also don't see a sign that says....."when Herb is eating, he cannot be disturbed, and Herb eats when he damn well pleases, so his eating boundaries and time table will depend on Herb. Herb's "off limit eating time....goes with him,. like a movable fence or territory "claim" that any time "Herb is eating or wants to eat.....then that's the way Herb gets it. So no talking to or bugging Herb when he eating even though his entire business is open and he's the only employee, Herb does what he wants, when he wants, and no one tells Herb what to do in his own place or complains about his movable "territory" or "boundary line" that goes with him everywhere and he takes that with him so it's always surrounding him at all times.......because Herb doesn't like that when you cross his boundary line......WTF's your problem? This is 'my place, ot's mine....mine, mine mine.. and if you don't like it, the door is right there, and don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out of it. I don't care what you want......I want this...and I definitely don't like what you're doing right now!!! How many times do I have to tell you? What's your problem? Can't you see I'm eating?
"I'm eating here???????"( biting your head off, irritated with an imperious, incredulous tone with self righteous indignant tone on top of it ) Or better....."Hey, I'm walking here, don't get in my way or try and stop me.....( see ) "
"Yes, I can see that. Where are you going?" ..........................................................................................................................????
????????????????????????????????
"Hello...anyone in there?" .....waiting for a response but no other response is given or offered, just more of the same and double if you dare try and "ask Herb again"? That's it, that's all you're getting from Herb
And in respect to D........that's all your getting from her too. Except in my case when my intuition got such a "pronounced "HIT"" and something that I recognized from my childhood and other times and I said to me T..,..."well, what do you think?"
He said, "I think you ought to make sure you are protected and continue on the path you are on. The one that your "hit" was telling you to do."
And as we discussed this much more and talked about my therapy and what I was getting as just my feelings and intuition and really nothing more, but my heart did sink even more to a point, but nothing more I could say or add to it?
I am sorry for being stubborn or resisting things said here before, or even if it sounded like I was making myself out to the hero and simply ignoring or neglecting to see the impact that my ADHD has on people and the hurt it has caused? I really am sorry that it's been so difficult for me to see all of this......but when you have someone with the same disorder and disfunction.....doing a different version, of the same "kind of abuse and treatment" to you as you are doing to them.....but they won't admit it or even hear of it....."period"..as to their part to play, the same as my part towards them....( one in the same, and admitting we both do this thing and it's really hurtful so lets do something to change this and stop doing this to each other.....but then, instead gets angry if you even mention it or even bring it up and there is no discussing their part or even having qa simple conversation about it ( I don't want to talk about it..,..how many times did I hear that? 500, 1,000??? maybe more )........there is no talking to the closed mind like this.....and there is no sense in beating your head against a brick wall when you are trying...and the other person is not, and they refuse to even discuss it with you? It takes two people to have a relationship....not one sitting on the sidelines...and telling you , you aren't doing enough for me? And holding a "dagger" over your head, and it you don't do what I want, then you know what will happen here? Don't you?
Yes, that comment made by Mr New Hope and Adhdlady.....brought tears to my eyes, since it was so nice to hear someone who has the wiliness and the desire to try and improve and try and find out what they can do....and not do......so to lesson the impact of being with or just having ADHD, and what it does to others. And it does hurt, and it is really painful and I know this now more than ever before? It's not the first time by any means, I just know now, what I didn't know before. I know "what it is" that hurts and I also know why? Being on the receiving end of "Myself"....is like looking at myself in the mirror?
And all my T really gave me as his "boiled down two words" here aside from his advise to me?
"Self righteous".......and ......"Avoidant "( or conflict avoidant ).....as what he "see's". and agreeing, I should watch myself, and take precautious measures.
My intuition.....cannot tell me what anyone is thinking, it can only guide me in the moment whether it be instinct or otherwise...and compare it to what it already "knows" and what it already recognizes...and pick the one of two choices......"yes" or "no".......it is very "black and white"....when you're in "threat mode"......"live"...or "die"....as he said it........"fight or flight" ( or freeze or to fawn ).....that's what that part of our brain tells us when it perceives a threat..and has nothing else to go off of? Someone, who is always in "fight mode"...."will always be fighting"....and it doesn't really matter what you say.......until they stop fighting altogether.
"Hey, I'm walking here...see!!!"
"Yes......I can see that." ( ya neva gonna get me coppa.....see. mauh mauh lol **private joke, but I get the connection :)
https://youtu.be/c412hqucHKw I'm walking here
J
Thanks
Submitted by RT021172 on
The reply to my post yesterday was what I needed.
Should one have to "work" to have the feeling of love for their spouse? Where the heart goes the mind follows. I've been so into my own head that I thought we were OK, I feel that my ADHD brain simply failed to recognize the truth and make a priority to put more actions, kindness, affection and selfless love into our relationship.
The real "going to work" for our living with my ADHD brain is to always be aware that my behaviors affect those closest to me. It's not just about me.
Thanks again for the stating the truth.
It's time for me to go to work on self management and invest in our relationship.
RT021172
Yep RT
Submitted by c ur self on
Your post is the gospel for all of us, when it comes to appreciation of our spouse's and putting in the daily effort (energy) in our marriages....No matter what type mind we live with....
C
Opposite experiences
Submitted by ishtar7677 on
It's interesting to read this because ADHD presents in the exact opposite way in my marriage. My husband is the big "feeler" in our marriage but due to the ADHD - which wasn't diagnosed until his early 20s - he has had a poor time regulating those feelings over the years. Our marriage has been very emotionally turbulent. In the past, he often has used me to emotionally regulate his big feelings (gotten a little better lately), and it seems like all of his efforts are focused *on me*: trying to get what he wants from me, especially sex. I feel like I'm the object of the ADHD hyperfocus sometimes and it's absolutely exhausting especially when you pair it with all the other inattentive behaviors regarding life the universe and everything else that makes any marriage with a person with ADHD so difficult. Any criticism from me is immediately taken as a threat/rejection and despite numerous conversations to the contrary, he doesn't seem to understand how doing no work to manage his own ADHD affects how I view him, trust him, and ultimately want him. I've had to essentially "close for business" just to get breathing room. I have no doubt of his affection, but the man has no idea how to give space.
Anger and sexual frustration
Submitted by anne21 on
Hi I'm new here, I'm living with a man with Adhd and I'd say he's a good man he works hard if interested in what he's doing and together we have a bright future if all goes well after Covid-19.
We've been together 5 years and I have worked through the steam train effect hitting me when I realized what kind of situation I'd gotten myself into. The first two years were incredibly difficult. Before meeting him I was married to someone else for 25 years starved of love, affection and sex and he practically never spoke to me so the excitement of meeting this man that talked and talked and talked was wonderful. Because of outside issues (his parents that controlled his every movement and wanted to control mine to) we fought constantly. I left a lot, shocked at how violent he could become. He would smash the place up and verbally demolish me but never lift a hand to me.
We eventually got through all that but since then I think it's left some kind of mark on me, I probably hold back and I'm not as affectionate and certainly sex for me has become less important. My partner now calls me a fridge he says I'm cold and frigid. He gets so angry that I have no interest in sex and every few weeks his frustration irrupts. Over the last year or so he's become interested in pornography and now he wants me to do all sorts of things I'm not willing to do. He can't let it go everyday he hounds me, makes jokes about me in front of friends when he's drunk. He drinks every day and more if he's aggravated. For the last two weeks he's sat outside in the evening drinking then rolls in and sleeps on the sofa. But I never know if this is the night he's going to smash the house up or not so I don't sleep. I'm exhausted from it.
He says he's sad for me because I'm missing out on such a wonderful sex life and I should just let myself go. I like sex if in the mood but not the pressure he puts on me. I can't stand the sight of him at the moment, every conversation turns into snide remarks about how unadventurous I am. How wonderful our sex life was in the beginning, how now everything comes before him and sex.
I miss the laughter we used to share and the good times.
We work together and it was so great to be together all the time but he's killed us by these constant thoughts in his head. I can't see a way forward. I've always known he's larger than life and unpredictable and that's what I loved about him but now he's become impossible.
if anyone has any suggestions I'd be grateful thank you
Anne21
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I agree with sickandtired.
If your partner is angry, raging, abusive that's not going to change. Take it from someone who was married for 17 years to an abusive man.
And when it comes to sex I absolutely would not want to have sex with someone who criticizes me constantly treats me like garbage and has anger issues. With my ex-husband we would go months without having sex because I couldn't stand to have him touch me I couldn't stand to look at him because of the way he treated me. Also, if he's expecting you to do things sexually that go against what you want to do for any reason, that is Wrong.
Hi anne 21...
Submitted by c ur self on
Your post say's "I don't think very highly of myself"...I think God created us to be loved, and cherished by one another, just like he loves us....
You will have to believe that for yourself though...But, this man your subjecting yourself to (based on your comments) is only interested in his own pleasure....He has no respect for you (he don't even respect his self) you are just a toy for his personal satisfaction.....
I think if you freed yourself of this toxic relationship your wings could spread again...
Bless you Anne!
c
LEAVE HIM
Submitted by sickandtired on
He is not a “good man”, and you do not have a “bright future” with him. He is an abusive alcoholic. Please leave now, before his violent outbursts injure you. You deserve better than this.
Thank you for taking the time
Submitted by anne21 on
Thank you for taking the time to offer help everyone!!
I'm a little shocked as I suppose this is my normal and I forgive and accept because he has adhd.
He thinks I'm the problem and I sort of believed it. He says I put everything before him but in reality my whole live revolves around him and making a future for us. We have a business together so we're together constantly.
l feel that all I do is keep everything right, strive to build something good. It's getting so difficult though but we're tied for our business.
You have all opened my eyes though and it is unacceptable.
Yes! His behavior is unacceptable!
Submitted by sickandtired on
He abuses you emotionally by making fun of you in front of others. He tries to pressure you into sexual situations that make you feel uncomfortable. C is right, saying you must have low self esteem. YOU DESERVE BETTER. None of this is your fault. All he cares about are HIS needs. Your feelings don’t matter to him, and you will never be able to change his selfish, violent nature. Do you know that many victims of physical abuse went for years enduring nasty outbursts like you describe, never thinking he would hit them, until it inevitably happened and they were severely injured. He is violent because he’s out of control. You are just lucky he hasn’t hit you yet.... but I guarantee you..... he WILL.
Please make a plan to leave. Start saving some money for yourself. Ask a friend to keep a suitcase for you with some extra clothes, etc if you have to leave quickly. Get in touch with a local women’s shelter if you need temporary housing. Please realize he may lose it and threaten suicide if you try to leave. My ex did this to me, and it is just a huge manipulation of your kind nature to guilt you into staying.
Please love yourself and protect yourself. This is NOT normal, and you can’t just chalk it up to adhd and let this continue. If you are not married to him it will be easier because you have no legal bonds to worry about. Talk to your friends and family. Are they aware of his abuse???
What’s normal?
Submitted by anne21 on
Isn't this the norm ?
I've read a few of the posts here, all be it I haven't seen anything about violence. It's mostly emotional difficulties.
He can be extremely charming and other people wouldn't guess at all he has rages.
I expected to be given answers to learn to live together harmoniously and find ways of not provoking him without giving in but I guess its not even worth trying.
he doesn't take any medication, says it makes him feel sick. I wondered if that would change anything.
I really hate to feel naive or stupid I thought I was doing something good, helping him in some way.
No, this is not normal even for an ADHD relationship.
Submitted by adhd32 on
You are existing not living.
I expected to be given answers to learn to live together harmoniously and find ways of not provoking him
There are no answers. Understand that you will placate and soothe him while giving up yourself one compromise at a time until YOU are gone and become a shell of the person you used to be. Any chance for change would need to be his effort and commitment. Clearly he isn't interested in changing. Work on yourself. Find out why you want to be with a verbally and sexually abusive man. Find out why you are willing to accept his behavior toward you.
This is not "normal". Its
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
This is not "normal". Its codependency.
And him saying its all your fault, saying you don't put him first? GASLIGHTING. My ex husband did this to me for years. I questioned my own sanity at times. ADHD or not, there is no excuse for the way he treats you.
I expected to be given answers to learn to live together harmoniously and find ways of not provoking him.
Trying to avoid conflict and walking on eggshells, afraid to set him off is no way to live. I became a completely different person when I was married, tried to be what my husband wanted so that he would treat me better...love me again. In the end I lost myself.