I am not sure how to introduce myself on this board, so rather than a 'hi' post, I thought I would contribute here with brief on the progress my partner and I have been making in building our relationship. I am a thirty seven year old professional in Australia who is currently two and a half years into a long distance relationship with a lovely, forty year old American. We met on a fan board for a band that we both like and were firm friends from the first ridiculous joke. As a general rule, I do not pursue relationships with people I meet online and he is such a good friend that I did not want to risk losing that by misreading his intentions. So even a year later when I was in the US and planning on attending various concerts with him, it was still only as a friend. From that trip though, we have been as inseparable as two people can be with 9000 miles in between and one Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (impulsive, hyperactive type). Things are slow, as I can only afford that type of trip once or twice a year, and he counts relationship growth face to face. He is right though, and somethings should not be rushed even while others speed past at break neck speed. ;P
Long distance, especially that far, is hard on everyone, but it is made just that little bit more difficult because his ADHD is untreated, and will probably stay untreated unless I can persuade him to up and move across the world where health care is something affordable. I knew he had ADHD, even before he told me. I recognise the symptoms pretty readily - in my former role I would work with university students who come to me for specialised assistance, especially those with ADHD and anxiety disorders. Still, he is one of the sweetest, funniest, and kindest people I know and one of the few who can keep up with me at full tilt (I do not have ADHD, but I loathe being static and have done things like completed a phd because I was bored). I am willing to work for this. Some stress points are relatively simple - I am not a fussy person when it comes to things like timeliness (in truth, I have to organise so much at work that I do not care to when at home), am pretty zen when it comes to chores and the state of a house (I share housed for 17 years with a wide variety of people and abilities to clean), believe in partnership but also in not living out of each others pockets, and have no interest in being anyone's parent, and zero interest in wealth for wealth's sake. I won't lie though, it is not easy for either of us - especially how we both respectively handle being apart and the terrible loneliness that comes with it: I want more contact, and he needs distraction. This means that once the initial period of excitement wore off, and he began to be more erratically in contact with me with long periods of silence between intense bursts of communication, I began to struggle. After a year though, I worked out what is normal and what I can handle. That he will vanish for a week or a week and a half before cycling back around to me in a burst rapid fire story telling. Then he will gently taper off contact after a few days of intense conversation, until he needs to cycle back again. As long as he doesn't escalate over two weeks (personal reasons for me), then we are fine. I am also now prepared for him vanishing into a ball of frenetic preparation anxiety when I am coming to visit, and then again into a puddle of utter exhaustion and mental regrouping when I have left (the stress of trying to keep his plans for what we should do together nearly kills him). And I know that when he has work, I really need to find something else to do because he has to use all his reserves to hold that together (and it is good for him). In turn, he makes sure to at least use social media to signal he is not dead even if he is not up to full conversation, he is more relaxed about me arriving, and is working on being able to talk to me no matter what state he is in. Although that is still easier when I am there in person.
As long as I can manage my own anxiety about abandonment (absolutely nothing to do with him) and find the trust that it is not deliberate, then it is okay. Some weeks I am better at it than others, and I can remember that he is in fact off telling everyone he meets about me, racking up adventures to regale me with. Other days, when work is wearing me thin or the distance is killing me, it is harder to convince myself that I am worthwhile and that he isn't deliberately ignoring me. It does not help that both of us are hopeless when it comes to communicating emotions (I know, and he knows but we don't say), but I have made extra effort to make sure he knows how I feel, even if it means writing a damn letter and sending it via snail mail. In his own way, he has also done the same although it is heart breaking to witness. I mostly can remember that I am the person he most consistently makes an effort to communicate with, and am determined to be far more secure in the knowledge of his affections. Certain friends remind me I am being an idiot and that all evidence points to this, and my best friend (who has ADHD) very kindly lends me her insight when I am at my bleakest. Most days I am optimistic that if we can survive this distance we will be in with a chance. From his previous relationships, I know that he is less absent than when he has to deal with a lack of physical connection, being unsure whether he is imagining me being fine with him at less than his best. He is painfully self aware and it takes a lot to get him to stop hiding. It is reciprocal - he will draw me out into conversation, and remind me to not be dismissive of experiences. Right when I least expect it, he will surprise me by calling when I am sick and being on the phone the entire time, or ring me to share a road trip without realising he is recreating those he travelled with me; or sit with me and let me have a small breakdown about my cat dying.
I returned last week from spending a month in the US, and as it is day eight of him vanishing to regroup with Netflix, with no cessation of absence in sight. This post serves both as an introduction, and a reminder to myself of where and who we are, and most importantly - to maintain hope. :)
Hi Sollertiae....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've noticed the same...most of my posts are written to serve a few purposes....Self encouragement being one;)....9000 miles or next door....People are going to be who they are.....Being a single male at age 40 (and a single female at 37) isn't a bad thing...Not at all...Being Single for many people is a great life, because it's a life style that works! So many people's minds do not work when it comes to monogamy, and daily interaction and sharing....
Many of us on this forum understand, (have come to understand) the reality of not recognizing this truth....So the product of our relationship attempts have suffered....What you maybe viewing as a negative (9000 miles), in reality, may be your biggest asset (protection)....
I'm sure he is a great guy, and you are a great gal....But if you reread you post over and over for a few days....There might be many things that start jumping out at you (like they did me)...
C
It is okay, I don't need down
Submitted by Sollertiae on
It is okay, I don't need down time from posting to see the problems. After all, the post was reasonably carefully crafted to remind myself and to fit the topic 'problems and hope'. There was perhaps a bit too much emphasis on the problems without any context though, and not enough emphasis on the good, and that we do actually talk like adults even if it is not our natural abode. I would be interested to see what you saw, though. :)
People always are who they are - me included - I have no particular expectations beyond that for anyone, ADHD or not. Changing anyone other than yourself is a thankless task that usually backfires. The most we can do is come to a mutual accommodation that is tolerable for both, and what I was trying to convey somewhat was the process. And if there are issues with daily sharing and interaction (or the concept of traditional monogamous relationship) then it is not only him. I know I have had, and do have, a very non traditional understanding of what these things are about. I am mostly relieved when I get a weeks break from any partner - I have time to complete my research. However, if you are worried around monogamy and impulse control, both of us have been reasonably recently burned by that from others and are unwilling to experiment - you will have to trust me (and mutual friends) here as I am not willing to go into detail.
Hah! 9,000 miles is far more difficult in terms of dealing with customs agents, at the very least. Every situation has its pros and cons. If anyone needs protection, it is probably him from me and my rather ruthless approach to life.
I have no fear of being single, nor delusions of 'forever after' with anyone. Any relationship is a function of the tension between boredom, comfort and the fight to stay relevant to each other. Successful or not, I think the value lies in at least trying, and trying to enjoy that ride. When that stops then it is time to move on. Great chunks of my adult life has been spent single, and I fully expect that to continue at some point. After all statistically speaking, the odds are against me with anybody. :)
I think you SEE it pretty well.....
Submitted by c ur self on
It's not that ignorance isn't a state all humans are born with....The problem with human's is we end up cuddling up with our ignorance, because we don't know where true wisdom comes from....
You sound like a person who is ready to deal with anything, and has limited expectations....Great....
I wish you the best Sollertiae...
c
I think what Hugh meant is
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I think what Hugh meant is that we are born blind to the world and need to struggle to overcome that tendency - as you so eloquently put it, to cuddle up to what we know rather than to seek improvement and wisdom.
I am far from perfect! But I am more interested in who people are than pinning them to a pedestal that I have created for them, or some social construct. My expectations are very high, but perhaps not in the obvious areas - I only trust someone to be myself, when they do the same to me without hiding. This means they need enough self awareness to do so. And for me, that means not being blind to what is not good about them, or myself. The rest either works or doesn't.
You too :)
Sollertiae... "Advice"
Submitted by c ur self on
When it comes to getting or giving advice, it's always tainted (tainted by our past and present circumstances, our faith, and our own selfishness)...As I was reading your last post above, I couldn't help but think about the past 10+ years with my wife....I went into this marriage with what I thought was "reasonable expectations" ;)....I was a worker who desired a life of loving unity, with the same) But, I learned quickly (not quick enough;)... that those Expectations would have to be swapped for Acceptance, (The reality of the way she lives life) in order to have a peaceful life, being my wife's husband..:)
I hope your BF has the capability to give you the honesty you expect, (and deserve)....Anyway, based on your posts, I think you have the ability to see things at face value....Which is nice, not all of us get to that point....
c
Sometimes I think we (as
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Sometimes I think we (as humans) get muddled up between the process and the end result when it comes to relationships. That there is nothing wrong with aiming to have a marriage or relationship that is a loving unity (or anything else), but rather than being there from day one, it is something that needs to be built and then maintained. But there is no set architectural plan that dictates what the shape of that love and unity should be, except that it needs to suit the capacities and tolerance of those involved. Therein lies the hard work, sorting out what is is pleasing for all, and as you observe - acceptance: of oneself, of the other person, of limitations, ADHD or anything else. That is while having to cope with previous design preferences, failure of tools, exhaustion and other metaphorical tasks. Preserving the ability to admire what has been built while still working is hard.
I am presuming (hoping) that there is still something at the core of you and your wife's relationship that is compelling you to learn to accept how she is?
Thanks, brutal reality is my forte ;) I do though have a lot of trouble with the word deserve. It is as if by my very existence and participation in a relationship, then I am owed something, that I be given a reward for my being a person who is not actively horrid, which makes me uncomfortable because I've done nothing other than be, and I am most certainly not better than anyone else. He does not owe me anything, but can choose to offer himself (honesty) to me - warts and all - if he wants. And that he has so far decided (and said so) to do so is what I value, respect, and reciprocate with. Both of us need to be able to see things as they are and at face value to go from there, and to be fair to him, he is self aware if not always able to act on it. If we are unable to ... manage the process of building something that fits us, then oh well.
You put your finger exactly on why external advice (versus platitudes, which are unhelpful) drawn from another's experience are always useful, because we all have bias and someone else is at least different from yours. Please don't think that because I am clearly pursuing something that might not work out, that I am not listening. I am, but I value the experience of failing. Plus it is damned hard to find someone who is not intimidated by me, secure enough in himself to not need to conform to societal expectations of gender roles, and tolerate my love of 'noise music.' I will put up with a lot for that ;)
I have trouble with the word deserve also....
Submitted by c ur self on
But in this context, I guess I use it because I've seen, and been exposed to so much abuse....But, most of that abuse I must add, was me putting confidence in people when I knew better....Yep, when it comes to the concept of Deserving...It is horrifying to think what I truly deserve.....Thank God, for the atoning blood of Jesus is all I can say!
c
What are your expectations?
Submitted by adhd32 on
It is pretty much out of sight out of mind with ADHD folks. Sometimes even if you are in the next room.
I wonder if he has ever visited you or met you somewhere mid-way at a time that did not involve the distraction of a concert. It could be eye opening to see him on a level other than the familiar routine where things run in a predictable fashion. Did you meet any of his friends or family while visiting for a month?
It seems that when you were just friends all his upsetting behaviors were more tolerable simply because we don't expect the same dedication from friends that we expect from a partner. But now as a romantic partner, you need more than he is capable or willing to give. Does he view your relationship the same way you do? Do not assume anything, you have to ask him.
Oh, I know. Although I will
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Oh, I know. Although I will often find out later that I was not always necessarily out of mind, just out of direct engagement. I think perhaps my post is a bit misleading. I was attempting to strike a balance between my enjoyment of exploring us, and the fact that the negotiations on what that looks like are ongoing. Without any actual context.
Of course. Concerts are only a few of the things we do. We have driven across the US on a road trip to see parts of Route 66, toured museums, been lost more than once, ended up Greyhounding back from NYC due to me being an idiot. No one ended up dead, and I am seen him completely exhausted and ping ponging off every flat space, melting down, pragmatic, etc. Same goes him for me (see being an idiot). The hard part is in fact finding familiar routine. I have tried to get some time where it was entirely routine, although I can't do much about myself being the unpredictable stimulant then. The best I could do given circumstances was a month where only the first week was different, but we had begun to settle into something of a routine where he could go off and I would be fine out of sight.
I've met his family multiple times (spent Christmas with them), and most of his friends who are close by, plus at least two of his exes (still friends). He has met some of my family and friends, but that is work in progress more due to people being on holiday than anything else. We also have mutual friends who were pre-existingly so. I might have overused the word 'friends' there :P
Hmm. I have some pretty high expectations of dedication from my friends! Perhaps more so than any partner as I expect friends to be around for a lot longer. I am not necessarily upset about any behaviour he has in and of itself, so tolerable and upsetting are not really the words I would use before or after. Many I know are symptoms and I would hate to have to live with them myself, let alone function. The others well - I am not always all light and sunshine either. I am perhaps more upset by my inability to put to rest my own anxieties, most of which originate completely independently of him (my previous relationship did not end on a good note and that had more to do with the person being a horrible person). In truth, he is actually better now than when we were friends. Absent yes, but far, far more open and less deflecting.
Yes, I have asked him and we reassess every time one of us is there in person. I don't care if he has to signal it in semaphore - there are discussions one does not avoid. He is cautious about the future because of the enormity of any decision making and paper work there (sensible), and in that regard slow and cautious is only a benefit. Otherwise he game to proceed as a romantic partner for another six to twelve months, pending reassessment along the way, or change of circumstance for either party. As I said above, in another comment, any relationship is a balance between excitement, comfort and continued relevance... and I would prefer to try and fail, than not at all.
Glad you're working on this.
Submitted by adhd32 on
You situation is a little different than most of ours. Living along side an ADD spouse who will not acknowledge or work on it is depressing as I am sure you can gleen from most posts. Worse is when you have to rely on them for tasks that don't get done because the daily minutiae and chores are boring so they often fall squarely on the non partner's shoulders. You and your friend are living apart and when you are together things are light and fun with little expectation, as they should be. You can continue on like this forever and that could work.
Proceed with caution if you are aiming at a more permanent relationship where you would be sharing a household. Many ADDers present themselves as fun and charming and they are as long as they do not have anyone depending on them or telling them to be more responsible. Be aware that what you see now may not be what you get later once the shine is gone and chores have to be done and bills need to be paid.
I am pretty sure that the US
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I am pretty sure that the US immigration department will have something to say about me visiting like this long before anything got to forever. Something has to give eventually and change, and I am aware that a shared household is always more difficult, as is routine. I cannot read the future however, only past actions. I have shared with a wide range of people for over thirty years - and I can attest that anyone is prone to leaving the work up to the nearest person who is not them. Hell, more often than not, simply being male is sufficient to that cause - see my father as a case in point. I have been primary cleaner, bill payer, household manager, and know that weight. At the very least he has cohabited and shared living arrangements for most of his life, and everyone who has is still talking to him. Their feedback is that he will do some set chores (even if on a low rotation), but is finnicky about piles and things to be remembered being in sight. Task completion is also difficult, and he admits to that. Minimal, but still an improvement over some.
I don't mean to be dismissive though. Thank you, I do take the warnings seriously. There is nothing fun about living with someone who is unwilling or unable or handle behaviours that are damaging to those who they live with, not matter what the cause. And given the amount of work necessary to facilitate living together in the same country, it is not something I am going to ever take on lightly, or let him take it on lightly. Should anything go ahead, as condition of visa there is a two year trial period, which will not only be a trial period for the government but for reality.
You have not been dismissive
Submitted by adhd32 on
Many times a woman (more rarely a man) will post on this board when she first realizes her partner may have ADD and is not pulling his weight and exhibiting other typical troubling ADD symptoms. Mostly she wants some advise from the group on how to change her partner and is looking for instructions on how to get back to how things were in the beginning. How can she fix things? They fight over money, chores, and he doesn't help with the kids. Often many of the regular posters will offer advise and recount things from their own experience. The typical reaction from the new poster is denial at what someone is saying. Yes, but he isn't that bad or Yes, but he only got fired because someone else... Often, they minimize and try to explain away the bad behavior they originally posted about. It is very difficult to have to come to terms with the fact that your partner IS the ADD person standing in front of you, not the funny, charming guy you met in the beginning. It took me a long, long time to accept this and take advice from some very knowledgeable people on this forum who opened my eyes and offered advice. The thing that has made things better for me is to have boundaries. I no longer take things on that belong to my H regardless of his adolescent reactions at being forced to perform as an adult.
You have thoughtfully responded to the posts without dismissing everyone who has responded. You seem to have an overview on his deficits though I think the old roommates may not be as honest with you as they would be with each other regarding his efforts. I hope things work out for you the way you want.
You see, I didn't meet him at
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Ah. I find it hard to find a place to talk about my relationship, because it follows a slightly different trajectory. I didn't meet him at his most charming but rather at his most scattered, depressed and least directed. Then I knew he had no sense of time, was terrifyingly impulsive, non judgemental, always exhausted, funny, distracted, messy, erratic, constant talker, with a poor working memory, good at vanishing into hyper focus. Now though, I also know he is enthusiastic, intelligent, creative, talented at music, gets anxious transitioning between activities, messy, deeply frustrated by his brain, limited filter, terribly loyal and thrill seeking. I am sure there is more good and bad to come. I can only hope to be able to keep my balance as well as you.
So boundaries, yes. You are very right, and it is something that requires constant vigilance in particular finding the balance between giving responsibility and solving something for everyone. For example I am terrible with bills myself and so set up direct debit for everything, but would not want to come across as fixing, especially as I earn significantly more than him (and my last partner), and he (and they) feels (felt) it. Me swooping in an fixing financial problems that are his, would be emasculating and disastrous, and he does not want the help. As for me, I was taught not to be entirely, inextricably bound to anyone financially - it is not worth it for either party.
His approach to work is 'as needed to live' (healthier than my approach!), unless it is interesting enough to appeal to him and then it is all consuming in an effort to make sure he doesn't get fired, because his sense of time is non existent and the constant fatigue will undercut him. He does not ask for help with this, beyond both of us sharing the trials and tribulations of the workplace and me giving some insight from a managerial perspective. And well, I am the main supervisor of someone with ADHD - I know precisely how hard it can be (even something as silly as a blood nose resulting in enough blood loss to unbalance medications ending up in too much stimulant), as well as how demoralising. Mostly it saddens me to see anyone struggling so much, and pushes me to advocate for better inclusive working practices.
As long as he contributes more than that one person I lived with, who would only rinse their dishes in water and do nothing else - then I will be fine. :) It is the tendency towards hoarding that is more of an issue. Any advice on that would be gratefully received. And thank you for the reassurance (reminder?) about out of sight, out of mind. It was helpful.
Can but give it a shot.
Hoarding=Acceptance & Boundaries....
Submitted by c ur self on
I am a person who believes and lives putting things away;)....Laundry isn't done until it's hung up or folded and put in the dresser....Or where ever it goes...Same for the Kitchen, Bathroom etc...She lives dropping clothes where ever...Her laundry goes on the nearest chair...Her dresser is unrecognizable...Beside her bed is a wall of plastic bins piled w/ junk. Her Car? there is no place to set even if I want to ride w/ her somewhere....I'm not mad about any of this, any longer!....It's my place to not destroy her peace, hammering her with my expectations in this area...Because it just spills over into every other part of our marriage....I use to stare at it, turn angry, and preach at her about her life style....So she gets beat down, and of course I was the good one....NO NO, I was the un-accepting ass hole!...
Difference's takes live and let live...That takes boundaries!....I can leave, or she can leave...But, we must love each other, and that takes; accepting we are NOTHING a like, in so many ways.....Got to the focus on the important things;)
I know many people who could
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I know many people who could benefit from your current attitude, simply for their own peace of mind :) I am however, rather relieved you cannot see my laundry pile(s)! My approach to putting things away is half hearted at best, and mostly oriented around, 'oops, I nearly broke a bone sliding on a pile of books I should possibly do something about that' before walking off halfway through. He and I are not that dissimilar there. I really only care about things like cleaning floors/shower/sinks and differ in terms of quantity of 'things' owned, but you are right. Deal with my own stuff and spaces and expand my tolerances. Hire a storage space if necessary for the massive poster collection ;) I've already learned from others the fine art of hiring out or simply taking what help I can get and dealing with the fact my 'threshold of dirt' is lower. Not worth the grief and important stuff.
I have noticed...
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
It is a common thing for the ADHD partner to not go out of their comfort zone. I've been with my BF for 3 years. I have a house, and he just bought a house last May, which is about a 30 minute drive from my house. Although he does come over to my house once a week when we are not together, I stay with him every other week when my 16 y.o.daughter is with her Dad. He is comforted by his routines, they keep him grounded.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live in different countries. Out of sight is definitely out of mind. My BF would probably forget about me....
I suppose if there is one
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I suppose if there is one thing I have learned from the distance is that it is not exactly 'out of mind.' It is definitely more 'in mind somewhere but not actually directed at you right now.' An important distinction. Also means that what I thought were randomly disconnected bits he had been throwing out to the world often suddenly coalesce into a master narrative to tell me when his attention comes round again. And if it helps, I haven't been forgotten yet. :)
Makes sense. Routine helps give something solid to base things on, lessen anxiety etc. And I know I disrupted his routine with a new routine, so it will take sometime to restabilise. I rather like the sound of your accommodation (at least, it seems to be working for you?) and pattern of interaction. It is a bit like what I had with a previous (non ADHD) partner actually, the freedom was rather nice.