I’m writing to describe what I went through with my ADHD wife through my serious illness. When it was finally diagnosed that I had to have heart valve replacement surgery my wife’s oblivious cruel streak came out. All this happened before we knew, at age 58, that she is very likely ADHD. Anyway, the very evening after getting home from the hospital, having undergone diagnostic angiography, she tells me that she doesn't want to deal with my ‘anxiety’ around the whole thing and that she was looking at apartments and possibly moving out. At this point I am a desperately sick man, and had been pretty ill for 4 years, very ill for 2, and extremely ill for about 5 months. My history of anxiety disorder is what she was referring to. But by the time I had faced surgery my anxieties were being dealt with quite well with medication, and I wasn’t struggling in that sense. This was one of a string of health crises of mine where she exhibited a level cruelty that I knew was not normal. I was extremely ill, possibly facing death albeit at low odds, very painful surgery and a months long recovery. The next day after my diagnosis and her abhorrent behavior in the circumstance, I was so upset and weakened that I had to call my sister to remove me from the house. I stayed two days with her. That was all 3 years ago, I am doing very well health wise, and a lot of changes have happened in our lives. Upon reading “The ADHD Effect on Marriage” in recent months, ten thousand bells and whistles were set off. In my wife’s case she simply cannot ‘read’ interpersonal situations like any normal person, and this can emerge as seeming cruelty, even though it isn’t intended that way. After my ten thousand bells and whistles moments, I did recommend, very gently, that she take a look at the book. At first read of a small part of the beginning, she said it didn’t ring with her. I didn’t push it. She spoke with her 82 year-old mother and come to find out, both of my wife’s brothers were diagnosed as ADHD when they were young, and she said simply, “I just didn’t want them to take pills.” Also, I’m like 95% sure that my wife’s deceased father was ADHD. The house was a pigsty for them growing up, no one ever cleaned up, and my wife’s sometime efforts at cleaning were futile. The house was so bad that she was embarrassed to have people over. All this said, the misreading of personal situations explained so much to me about the years of fighting and frustration, AND the ‘chore wars,’ (my wife is still a self-admitted slob). I’ve never thought that she was a bad person, despite the fact that she could treat me cruelly in many of my most desperate situations. During my heart surgery recovery she did little to care for me even though I was totally dependent on her help as my home-care person. Again, the ADHD signs reveal that she has little idea sometimes how to focus on the needs of another person through an inability to read situations. She has never had the ability to put herself “in someone else's shoes.” I was wondering what other peoples’ experiences were with an ADHD partner and with them being mentally absent, and clueless, during serious illness of the non-ADHD partner.
Illness and lack of partner support
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Hi Ardorguy - I am happy to hear you are doing quite a bit better health-wise. You have been through a lot. I can't relate to having a serious illness, but I can say that whenever I am ill, I can't count on my ADHD husband. When I am ill, everything around the house falls apart until I am better. When I was sick last year and honestly could not get out of bed, I simply asked that my husband order a pizza so our daughter could eat dinner. (I typically cook dinner every night.) He stomped around screaming, "I don't f---ing want to be doing this right now" as though I'd asked for a kidney. It was outrageous when I work full time and have a full meal prepared for the family every other night. Another example... one time when I was getting groceries, the hatch on the back of my car only lifted halfway (the hydraulic thingy stuck) I didn't know as this had never happened before and so I turned full-force to place my bags in the car. I hit my head hard on the edge, causing massive swelling of 3/4 of my forehead. I sat in the parking lot for a half hour and finally drove home, applying pressure the whole time. When I got home and went inside, I relayed what happened to him and my daughter. The swelling was huge and colorful at this point! My daughter (about 8 at the time) said, "Let's help Mommy in with the groceries because she hit her head." He replied, "I can't... now I have to worry about the cost of fixing the hatch." Unbelievable. Cruel. A stranger would have treated me better. He also watched me work myself into a nervous breakdown a few years ago while he sat in a chair on the internet for two years unemployed. Though I was working days, nights and weekends, doing all the parenting, all the cooking and all the cleaning, he did not make a move to help. I ended up on medication for depression. (I've smartened up... I only work days now. :) )
In a nutshell, I have found that my husband has a hard to almost impossible time putting himself in someone else's shoes in general. He is unable to feel someone else's feelings. In any situation, his thoughts go to how it impacts or inconveniences him and that's all he seems capable of. How he feels is honestly all that occurs to him. I don't think it's intentional, but the absence of empathy seriously damages his relationships.
Honestly, I am terrified of what you've described in your post and it is one of the reasons I want to leave before we reach our senior years. I know he will not support or care for me if I need it and I would rather be alone and pay for help or qualify for subsidized help if I get sick. A lot of times the hospitals here assume if you have someone at home (let's say if you've had a hip replacement surgery or something) that you don't need a lot of home care. That may be true with a normal spouse, but it is not true with my ADHD spouse. I digress!
I think a few other people who frequent these forums have had experiences with ADHD partners and serious illnesses, so hopefully they will be able to share their stories. I will say that if she isn't willing see herself clearly and consider treatment, you probably can't expect a lot to change for the better. All the best and once again, so happy you are doing better!
It’s a hard situation
Submitted by Ardorguy on
Thanks for sharing your story. In fact mine gets even worse. The second night I was home from the hospital my wife started in on me about what a lousy husband I was, and she had been complaining that I never took her on any trips. There I am, post op with a new scar in the middle of my chest, not allowed to drive, and she's wanting some big trip. We were not in good financial straights because of the medical bills and she decides a few weeks into my recovery and just after another procedure on my heart to stop an arrhythmia, that she's going to book a cruise with her mother! I've had NO vacation since my surgery, and a couple of weekend trips out of town. One to help my niece move, and another to see her daughter christened. That's it. I have felt distance from my wife for many years. She has improved of late. Starting a new career as a public school teacher, and going through the certification process, taught her something about her condition — In the sense of, she has had to learn more about kids with ADHD and she has realized the traits in herself, especially with the revelation that both of her brothers had been diagnosed, but went untreated. I'm the kind of person that can always blame myself first, and knowing about her condition has given me a new perspective and my new healthy body has given me more personal strength. She still isn't treated in anyway for ADHD, i.e. meds or counseling. She griped for ages about my anxiety disorder and I get treatment for that and she should take similar steps to get help. Our marriage has been a toxic combination in a big way, but we are still together but not very intimate. There's a tinge of sadness around it all for sure.
That's just... awful
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I am so sorry for what you've gone through in your marriage. You will find a lot of camaraderie and understanding on here. I am very sad as well. I can't even believe I'm spending so much of my life like this. There has not been intimacy in my marriage for 10 years and I feel your sadness on that point. Your newfound strength is sure shining through in both your posts though.
Oh wow. I am so sorry you
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Oh wow. I am so sorry you have been so unwell and in such a stressful situation while trying to heal, when the one thing needed for healing is calm and support.
No expert, but I would start wondering if beyond marriage problems, your spouse has some sort of co-morbidity going on? Perhaps more of rhe autistic spectrum, or at least something to explain this. There is nothing in ADHD that dictates that sort of behaviour - even in emotional deregulation. Perhaps a certain lack of tact, or slow to pick up you need help, but none of that brutality is justifiable by ADHD and 'unable to empathise with others' is the exact opposite of ADHD. Usually they are very good at putting themselves in others shoes, but absolutely hopeless at expressing this in ways that are helpful or recognisable. Feel everything, but can't communicate.
Good grief, I am still horrified.
My partner has been nothing but helpful, patient and considerate when I need medical care, or in dealing with my RA, and despite his parents often poor treatment of him (and his lifelong rebellion against them) he has always helped and been there for them. Likewise of my friends with ADHD they are always the first responders when people are sick. After all the endorphin payoff is big!
I think this varies
Submitted by Brindle on
Actually, I've read articles about adhd'ers and struggle with lack of empathy. It's not just because their inattentiveness can be misconstrued. It's also because they can just truly struggle with it. My husband cannot put himself in other people's shoes very well. If he has experienced something similar, then he can make the connection. If it is something he fears and you're going through it, then he can make the connection. But even If he can empathize, if it crosses his own personal "stuff," then he comes first and he would tell you to get over it.
He cannot deal with other people's emotions. Especially if they are his fault. He runs from them. Runs. The most empathy anyone ever gets is an acknowledgement that something must be hard. I've seen him look sad for brief moments on behalf of others. But that is where it ends.
He has even expressed to me before that he was worried about so-and-so, but he never once took action. He watched them struggle, would be asked to help with the very thing he said he was worried about and told them no again and again, had many opportunities to help, as he was in contact every single day, but he did absolutely nothing to help. In fact, he relaxed while they struggled in front of him. So, DID he feel sad for them? The relationship took a serious hit. Serious hit. If you ask them, they do not think he has empathy.
The only times he comes through for people is if it is a grand gesture. But if you watch him, you can tell it is less about coming through for them than it is about feeling good about himself. It shows on his face.
I know... 7... (unmedicated) adhd people in face-to-face life right now off the top of my head who are not empathetic. They are very judgemental and critical. I wonder... does the medication (or lack thereof) play a role in that??? I'm not sure, but you know the saying: "pills don't teach skills."
What I think, instead, is that adhd has some presentations on both ends of the spectrum. I've noticed the adhd folks in my life seem to fit into one of two categories for mood: cheerful or cranky; two categories for sleep: don't need much sleep and so wake early and are energetic all day or can't wake for anything and always just sitting around with no motivation; two categories for empathy: excellent friends because they because they can really empathize or poor friends because they expect you to help them but they don't feel like helping you; two categories for personal drive: want to do better and are willing to try so hard or would rather just take the easiest route even if it means they don't accomplish much; two categories for how they face their forgetfulness: very apologetic and feeling terrible or having a "get over it" attitude.
Now maybe some of the less desirable ends of the spectrum come from poor coping skills or severe adhd that significantly handicaps their ability to focus on anyone other than themselves because their mind is a prison of squirrel hunting. But either way, I see most adhd folks land in one of two ends of the spectrum. (I do have one friend who is in a middle part of the spectrum. But she is literally the only adhd person I know who doesn't fall in those two categories. ) But I really don't think we can say that adhd is the opposite of a lack of empathy.
Armchair diagnostician
Submitted by Ardorguy on
It's difficult since she hasn't gone in to get a clear diagnosis of ADHD. But, all the signs are there. I have spent my entire marriage helping her find misplaced items, reminding her to do things, arguing about housework that she promised to do but doesn't. I am now the main housekeeper, doing 95% of what needs to be done, and I still can barely get her to do the 5% she's responsible for. But she'll spend hours on the weekend watching special interest videos on YouTube! It is her way of escaping her public school teaching job which is high stress. I work 3/4 time and am the "house-husband" and it's the only way it can work for us. I'm way better at cleaning and keeping the house than she is. I also do all of our bookkeeping and financial stuff. She has in the past shown a lot of signs of ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). Learning about that has helped too! I've always said to myself 'she would argue with a fence post.' She's not really like that with other people, just me. It seems to be just her intimate relationships. Her father was the same way but 10 times worse. The problem is we'll have some disagreement about money or something, and eventually she'll admit that I was 100% right. This makes me sound 'bossy' but when it comes to our money I'm right. I've always been a high achiever with numbers (math in school, statistics, spreadsheets) and she's the total opposite — barely passed math in school, can't project numbers etc. Again it's good it falls to me, I keep our credit score high, despite all of our medical debt through the years and struggles as self-employed people (her formerly) trying to get health insurance in a very Red State. Anyway, I think it would help if she could get a proper diagnosis and possible treatment. Just the education from the ADHD in marriage book has helped me understand so much. Take this as a plug for the book if you like. Oh, and we never had kids but 100% of the care of our pets falls to me. I worry if something happened she'd forget their care, although they would make it known that they are thirsty or hungry. This is how I live. Constant contingency planning around her forgetfulness. It's about survival sometimes and very exhausting!
Yes, yes, yes!
Submitted by Robina0877 on
I've read a few of your posts this morning and am on the other end just nodding along in agreement because I feel all of this so much.
My husband is ADD but what you said about arguing with a fence post is SO darn accurate. I've told him he should have been a lawyer because he always has an answer for EVERYTHING. And yep, I too take care of 95% of the household chores. My husband thinks it's helpful to stop at the store after work to go grocery shopping, etc. and while that's fine and dandy, I work from home full-time and simultaneously take care of our 3 year and I NEED HELP WITH HER. I don't need you dilly dallying at the store taking your sweet old time buying food that realistically only HE eats.
I could write a novel on the things he does, but so much yes!
Hi Robina....
Submitted by c ur self on
The things you are dealing with, (so many of us) can be very frustrating and discouraging....But when you step back and take a good look at the behaviors you've listed, I've come to realize it's just their normal...When the thought process (ability) of a mind is so hindered by all the things that a high level add mind is hindered with, consistency in most every area will be non-existent....
It takes some of us years to realize (admit it to ourselves) our spouse's lives don't work well in a marriage relationship...If she had had an arm missing, (physical limitation) I would have accepted that right from the start.....But, when it's mental, (even though it's observable in their actions and behaviors) some how we find ourselves expecting normality (our normal) from them...LOL..This is a problem!
When you marry a man or women who suffers w/ distraction,, organization, timeliness, no communication filters, among other things....You better have good boundaries, you better know going in (no matter what they say) you can't trust them to be anything close to an equal partner in area' s of responsibility....(many of our spouse's minds want allow it) But what puts a lot of us on these forums is our frustration level, that irrupt's because we EXPECT them to be capable of managing life from the big picture...Instead of accepting they never have, and never will....The reason so many of us struggle w/ ACCEPTING the reality we are subjected to daily, is because we can't bring ourselves to face the painful truth....Who wants to be at peace with the FACTS ?? LOL....So many of us keep making our lives larger and larger in the responsibility arena (children, homes/debt, pets, businesses, etc)....I guess deep down we think we are going to fix them....But, by the time we get so hopelessly burdened down w/ responsibilities that was meant for two, all we have enough energy left for, is to get on line and vent.....Which is ok to, at least we and audience who understands our pain....The only thing I have to offer is what I tell myself...C ur self, manage your life based on the reality of the past 12 years....Don't go down blaming and miserable....Believe what you see!....
I read posts on this site, where worn out wives and mothers, have husbands begging them to have more children, and they can't even be depended on to help w/ the one or one's they have....I say keep our lives small, live like it's just one....Because for many of us when it comes being able to count on our spouse's, it is just one.....
c
Keep our lives small
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I read posts on this site, where worn out wives and mothers, have husbands begging them to have more children, and they can't even be depended on to help w/ the one or one's they have....I say keep our lives small, live like it's just one....Because for many of us when it comes being able to count on our spouse's, it is just one.....
This is really good advice, C.
Empathy
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
This is also my experience exactly, Brindle. My therapist asked me if my husband had empathy (though I go to her for myself, she has extensive experience with ADHD... invaluable) and when I said he has little to none, she told me that was very common. I have since read articles that support that as well. And on the other end of the spectrum, my daughter has empathy overload. I mention this because I have started to believe she may have inherited ADHD from my husband. That's another post emotionally I can't even begin to write yet, but truly her symptoms are so much at the opposite end of my husband's in so many ways that it's shocking. You have outlined it perfectly in your post.
Hi Ardorguy....Sorry you've dealt with so much unconcern...
Submitted by c ur self on
Welcome to the site....As I set her reading your posts, and the others posters, (no ability to count on our spouses) they are just snap shots of one another's, and my own....I found out a long time ago this was going to be the case....(Like you, painfully found it out) So, because I always want to be a positive and thankful person, I just can't allow myself to dwell on the things I can't change....(It's mental illness for the most part) I've done it in the past (over thinking her living of life, and all the dysfunction) And all it did was make me a sad victim...Something I never want to ever do again.....So, I just accept I can't depend on her, and I don't....
My job is to love her....So that needs to be my focus....
c
On my own
Submitted by adhd32 on
I had some major surgery and H was useless. He just went on with his life and was clearly irritated that I needed help. He was pissed that he had leave work to come and get me when I was discharged. He would sigh and stomp around whenever he had to do anything. He had to shop or pick up dinner because I could barely walk or stand up and it was such a big problem. Thankfully my friends brought dinner over a few nights but anything he had to help me with made him so annoyed. I knew then that I would be on my own forever after this experience. The bottom line is I had to do way too much in the beginning of my recovery and I had to involve way too many people in driving me to appointments etc when my H should have been a concerned and loving husband and done these things because cared about me. They say actions speak louder than words so based on his actions I know I am alone.
Been there
Submitted by Dagmar on
My husband is better than what you've described, but he has no empathy. None. So he was great for me when my father died, because it had happened to him, but horrible when I had pregnancy issues. For instance, I went to the hospital for a routine test when I was pregnant and was told that I was going to have to spend the night for possible pre-eclampsia. This was my second pregnancy and the second time this happened, but it was still unexpected and the first time was literally the most frightening thing I'd ever gone through (I ended up getting induced early that night). So I texted him from the hospital to say I couldn't leave, but he was working and preparing for a meeting, so his response was "who will pick up our kid from daycare?" ARGH.
What has been working for me lately is just flat-out naming the problem. I recently told him (not during an argument) that he has sympathy, but no empathy and that's hard for me. He has actually been working on it.
I posted on here a while back that he had been picking at me for a long time until I said one day that I'd done some research and I know that he's just picking on me because he has ADHD and needed stimulation, but that I really couldn't take it any more. And he has not done it since. It has been at least a year, but probably a few more.
So, maybe treating it like a different disease could help. If a diabetic was being a cranky jerk, you could easily fight with them, or you could tell them their blood sugar is low and suggest some juice. Sometimes, they're just being jerks, but sometimes it's from the disease.
Yes, naming the problem
Submitted by Ardorguy on
I agree that "naming the problem" helps. Before I read the ADHD marriage book, I could only see things in terms of "moral failings," (and "morale failings" for me!), and seeing things through the lens of a disorder has been helpful for us both. At least the arguments have calmed down somewhat. She is trying to be more self-aware, and she has proof positive that she very well may be ADHD since her brothers were diagnosed young, albeit untreated. I don't know if she will ever be willing to get evaluated or treated — probably only if I screamed enough, which I don't want to do. I still remain in a simmering state of frustration, sadness, and ENVY of other couples, thinking "what is life like outside of this box of mine?"
Sick, tired, and alone
Submitted by Ardorguy on
It is sad that those of us living with an ADHD partner need a place to vent our frustrations, but we have frustrations that need venting. At this moment I’m flustered because I’ve come down sick with a respiratory infection (allergy related). A trip to the doc should take care of it. But it also makes me sad that my wife sees me sick, won’t take over the household duties, won’t make me a meal, wont take care of our dogs, won’t help pick up things — much less would she offer to be comforting, give me a back rub, listen to my frustrations, call the doctor for me since I’ve pretty much lost my voice — they just don’t notice! We all forget how much compensatory behavior that WE fall into, how much we neglect ourselves, how much we abandon our expectations of our partner, how much we feel so alone at times. When I’m sick, those are the worst times. I have to give instructions constantly to receive care, and then it comes with complaints. This is that part which is a lot of NO fun!
I was in the same boat till I got out.
Submitted by sickandtired on
Please read my history of posts. I can relate to where you’re coming from so much.
Common Theme
Submitted by Orbital Seattlite on
I just left a similar story on another post on this very same topic, started several years ago! I wish I'd seen this one first, I'd have posted here instead. That one is worth a read as well: Absolutely no sympathy...
No Empathy
Submitted by How Long will t... on
My story isn't as bad as yours, but I can certainly empathize with you- no pun intended. In 1999 I broke my leg in two places and shattered my ankle. I was laid up in bed for 6 weeks. My husband ran an auto repair shop and his passion is motorcycle riding. He flat out told me that he was not going to give up his riding on the weekends to stay home with me. When I needed to bathe I had to call my mother over so she could help me in and out of the shower. I asked him one morning if he could please start putting out fresh underwear for me before he left and he said "why, you're not going anywhere".
In 2010 I had a motorcycle accident, I had a broken shoulder, a broken rib and a torn ACL in my left knee. I remember mopping the floor using one arm and almost falling because I slipped on the wet floor. Needless to say I gave up.
On the flip side, when my husband had a hip replacement he expected me to be home to care for him, when his hip replacement blew apart years later and I was home caring for him he was down right cruel with his communication with me. I had actually made up my mind that once he was healed I was leaving. Then I realized it was the morphine combined with his ADHD that made him so mean.
So yes, I understand not getting any empathy and the cruelness. We live in a world most will never understand.