I've spent 2 years constantly fighting my ADHD husbands false accusations of mental illness. Beyond just yelling "You're crazy!" as soon as I express a concern or pain I've been caused by H's actions and behaviors. Here is the pattern:
Husband behaves outside of the scope of a reasonable person and or crosses boundaries.
Wife is hurt by the action and states that she feels (insert emotion) when H does (insert action).
H bristles. He denies the action even if you or anyone else bore wittiness.
W instantly feels confused. We are working in the mind set of a normal brain and normal social interactions. We can't yet grasp that H is denying action despite proof.
W tries again, maybe even redirecting the approach.
H now adds anger to denial.
W is hurt even more.
H deflect and redirects the issue back to the W as the false accuser or cause of the issue.
W defends.
H must go to last resort to win. He tells you that you are crazy. Not just in the moment emotional (yes that can look "crazy") but places his choice of mental illness labels on you and runs with it. H now needs to protect his ego and image as Mr Perfect. Mr. I Must be Respected at all time and goes public.
Enter the Smear campaign. The Sympathy plea. The careful creations of lies, omissions, redirects, facts that may be true but taken out of context, deflections to unhelpful questions that do not support his goal. If you (friend/coworker/family) will not provide input that supports my claim, I will ignore you. And add in a dash of "I am the perfect husband." and list all the things you do or don't (true or false) to make your point.
In the background, H is telling W lies about friends and family. Things that hurt her or make her choose between her husband or others. H runs everyone out of W's life. He guilt's her into isolation. He makes her believe that if the marriage fails, it is her fault. He breaks her self esteem by carefully combining insults that often look like he's joking, by comparing you to other women and giving you tips on how you could look better and be better, by denying you affection and attention and intimacy and giving it to others. In the end, he has you so focused on meeting his needs and expectations, you leave his faults alone. He will do this so passively that when you see the pattern he will have enough redirects to make you question, "I'm I really crazy?" And hello you have been Gaslighted.
He is in control now.
I truly thought I was the only one dealing with a spouse like this. I knew my H had ADD since we were in high school. I'm the one that suggested he see a doctor about it. I had no idea that there could ever be behaviors like this. He forgets all that I say. He won't help around the house and can not pick up after self. He forgets appointments and instructions. He can't pass a certification for his job to save his life. He can't sit still unless it's for computer or TV. He talks over me, interrupts, changes the subject and get angry if I'm too detailed. He will even forget you are talking and simply walk out of the room. He will not understand you unless you agree with him. These things I get. I don't love and don't need but i get it. The rest. Well, i don't want to be like my H, but I'm going to say he is the one with a mental disorder. It may be more than ADHD. But its ok to say you have that. A mental disorder isn't.
I'm so glad i found this link. It may just save what little wits I have left!
https://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/FalseAccusations.html
My H used to claim that I was crazy.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
He would insist that I was crazy SO MANY TIMES that I agreed to submit to a battery of tests administered by a clinical psychologist. I spent many hours doing these psychological tests. They all came back as "normal"....completely NORMAL. So, H had to "give up" on that label.
The way these results are is that there is a range of "normal" for each area. When the various results fall into the range of normal, then the result is normal for that particular metric. When all the metrics have results that fall into the associated "normal" range, then ...voila....you're normal.
A couple years ago, H finally did some of those same tests....and guess what.....his did NOT come back normal. His came back indicating a VARIETY of seriously things wrong....personality disorder, paranoia, depression, anxiety, OCD, ....a whole laundry list of stuff. ooops!
You're not crazy. You're not. He's the mentally unhealthy one.
You've been married for 2 years, right?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
Enter the Smear campaign. The Sympathy plea. The careful creations of lies, omissions, redirects, facts that may be true but taken out of context, deflections to unhelpful questions that do not support his goal. If you (friend/coworker/family) will not provide input that supports my claim, I will ignore you. And add in a dash of "I am the perfect husband." and list all the things you do or don't (true or false) to make your point.
In the background, H is telling W lies about friends and family. Things that hurt her or make her choose between her husband or others. H runs everyone out of W's life. He guilt's her into isolation. He makes her believe that if the marriage fails, it is her fault. He breaks her self esteem by carefully combining insults that often look like he's joking, by comparing you to other women and giving you tips on how you could look better and be better, by denying you affection and attention and intimacy and giving it to others. In the end, he has you so focused on meeting his needs and expectations, you leave his faults alone. He will do this so passively that when you see the pattern he will have enough redirects to make you question, "I'm I really crazy?" And hello you have been Gaslighted.
<<<<
If you've only been married for a couple of years, then get out. Seriously. Get out. This will only get worse....I know.
I have been thru a couple of Smear Campaigns. Both were within the last 5 years of a 30 year marriage. Prior to that, there were no smear campaigns.
The first one started 5 years ago when H convinced himself that I had had an affair when I went to my high school reunion. His "reason" for believing this was ....omg....I told him that one guy asked me out for drinks after the reunion. Of course I said, "NO.". I did NOT go. But, I made the huge mistake of TELLING H that this guy asked me out for drinks. I didn't think telling him was a big deal because he had a somewhat similar experience at his own reunion a short time earlier.
Anyway....H concluded that I had an affair and told EVERYONE that I had an affair....his co-workers, his family, his friends, etc. I held my head high because I knew that I had done nothing wrong. It was annoying, but I wasn't going to be embarrassed about a total lie.
Then the next smear campaign was after H and our son had a big fight (that H caused) and H blamed me for it. Again, he smeared me to everyone, and this time his family got the "filing for divorce" wheels in motion. Their interference costs us tens of thousands of dollars. (I will NEVER see or speak to them again. I have told H that if he dies first, I won't even bother to tell them....they will find out incidentally WAY AFTER the fact because I won't want them anywhere around me at that time.
Frankly, I secretly enjoy that fact. I have even fantasized about it. Years from now, H will likely pass before me (he has health issues) and then sometime later one of his siblings will wonder why they haven't heard from him and they'll somehow contact me and I'll say, "oh, sorry, but XXXX died 6 months ago. No, I didn't try to call you because you meddled in our marriage when you didn't know the facts and you cost me tens of thousands of dollars. The thought of having any of you at the funeral made me sick, so we didn't let you know. Have a nice life."
He was getting a divorce in
Submitted by Kansasry on
He was getting a divorce in April so he told me and the world. I was happy with that and even printed the papers, filled my part out and asked him to come to the house that night, 48 hours after he left.
He was gone at his friends for 2 weeks and I thought we would divorce. I was sad but not. He started flipping out over the credit cards, al in his name, and how he wasn't going to get stuck with it all and he wasn't going to let me mess his credit up. And we had just moved into a big house with a year lease. He didn't want that to stop him from moving in with his buddy.
He begged to come home, made promises to get his own help, he wanted to be a better man, and try marriage counseling again. I agreed to it. He came home and in a week, he said he wasnt going to counseling, he didn't need it. Right then and there I knew he was only back due to money and the lease. He also would say things that were very short sighted, no big plans and it was all about the bills. He got so focused on them he actually forgot to pay every bill but rent last month. Only if you are ADHD can you do that.
This whole time, I've asked him if he was leaving when the lease was up. He said no, he loves me. I didn't buy it.
I opened my own account and now send my check there. No more joint accounts. And I'm not going to be honest about any side money I get, it's all mine to move with once the lease is up. I had/have a plan to leave right before the lease is up. Take a day from work and move while he's at work.
Well, yesterday I found a text from that buddy "Stay strong, keep to the plan. We will be roommates in 8 months." that was sent 5 days ago.
So today i got my own family phone plan, I'll have a new number in a few days. I changed all the passwords on the bills. They are in my name and he wants to pay them. Well, no more.
I might not wait for the lease. Once I have enough for a deposit, I'm gone.
Good luck
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Let us know how it goes.
You Should Not Wait
Submitted by kellyj on
Trust your instincts.....you already got the confirmation from the intercepted text. Do not tell him anything you are thinking. Do not passive aggressively act out or let him on to what you know. Do not let him find out or clue him in on anything you are planning. Do this before he does. Do not trust him again....he already showed you why he came back. Do not pass go and do not collect $200....make your plan on your time when you are ready and then leave all in one day. Get help if you need to and don't compromise yourself and act in revenge. Don't do anything you will regret yourself. Stay clean. Don't say anything. Don't ask him anything that will tip him off. Let him think you don't know and behave as you always have.......... and then go.
J
You are very wise. He will
Submitted by Kansasry on
As These Things Go
Submitted by kellyj on
I was jumping to a lot of conclusions of course and you will again be your best judge. My advise is based on what you mentioned before and what you said again here about him having too much control and based on his lack of empathy and his deceptive behavior...that is really telling. A reasonable person would not behave in this manner and be open and honest even if they had made the decision to leave. My first choice would be to work things out if that were possible but it does appear that he has made up his mind for you.....as these things go. I think your son's best interest really should be your first priority.
The problem I see is the pattern of refusing to take responsibility and blame....as I mentioned if I am correct.....this is a very predictable pattern and there will always be a cost levied against you in all cases if you give someone like this any control at all. If nothing else......drama and simply making your life as difficult as he can is likely. What do you expect? It will be the same as you already know from the past but done in a different scenario and you son's best interest probably will not be his number one concern (I could almost count on it).
I didn't want to leave you with the impression that I advocate leaving and fleeing for anyone with marital problems.....I'm just basing what I said on what I said to you earlier about Sharks. It does sound like you have a good handle on your situation but it never hurts to hear it again from someone who has been there. At the risk of sounding a bit paranoid myself...... for me, a similar scenario went badly to have someone like this take control in a deceptive way with their only intention for being deceptive was for their only self serving gain. It does happen and I don't think most people are like this but....it is always good to go into things with your eyes wide open and I would not want you to suffer at the hands of an unscrupulous person if that is the case with your H.
I think the most important part for you is for you not to change or do anything differently than what you believe in about yourself even if you H behaves in a way that compromises his integrity. No matter what happens.....you do not have to compromise yours and that will serve you always no matter what and be setting the same consistent example for your son at the same time. I think at the end of the day.....this really should be your goal. Again....not that you don't already know this (not assuming you don't).....it is nice to hear it from other people in times like this and know you are not alone:)
J
He did make our mind up for
Submitted by Kansasry on
He did make our mind up for us. I'm not surprised he lied and manipulated me for his own needs, he actually has done this from the start so nothing new. But it still hurts.
It's funny how he only wants to focus on the fact that I invaded his privacy but getting into his phone. He sees nothing wrong with the lies and deception, it's once again my actions that are the only issue. I actually calmly told him I had been looking for the proof for awhile because his behavior pretty much told me as much. I just needed to see it for myself. I reminded him that when he left in April and he had no money yet (he just started working after 6 months of contracting and didn't do well) that I had already offered his plan as an option. I pointed out that he could have come back and do what he was doing but without the lies and deception and the pain. And he denied he had the plan. He stated it was taken out of context. He said I had no idea what was going on.
It made me laugh. I told him it didn't matter, I saw it and there isn't room for much interpretation. .I said I was fine with his plan. But I wanted him to ponder what would have happened come January when he would have just up and left me. Most likely, I would have been hurt due to the fact that I lived a lie for 8 months. And I would have been financially unprepared while he would be taken care of. I told him it was clear that my plan had left off one important part that his plan did have, he needed to devastate me. My plan was way to considerate and mature.
That's when he launched into the, Your crazy, part of our argument.
He knows it's my big button. I don't know why I can no longer ignore it when i know he says it to push my button. It's like I've been brainwashed and the brainwasher created a trigger word. It works every time. And that's always my big negative part in this merry go round. I flip out pretty much every time.
But I did pretty good, not perfect to not react but I recovered the next day and when he started in again, I just laughed.
We had a camping trip this weekend. We both wanted to go but he was just to worn out to do the planning. So, par to norm, i did all the prep and packed. He also said on Friday I'd have to pack the car because he will get home and not want to go due to work. I told him friday I didn't want to go with him. He said he was still going. He came home and got pissy that I didn't have everything ready. But somehow he found the energy to pack and go. Before I would have been hurt and angry, he clearly uses me. But I'm enjoying his messed up actions now. Seeing reality is really good.
I'm no longer going to allow myself to operate on the level that he is reasonable. Now I understand he will hurt me. This time I will protect myself. I'm going to file first so I can get a TRO to freeze our assets. It's really only the cars, but I know he will sell my car. He made the threat and now I know they are not empty. I am quietly networking with a few people I am close to incase I need a place to go on short notice. And I have a financial plan. He won't break our lease, he wants the deposits and he won't be able to lease with his buddy. We have 8 months but I will leave as soon as I have a deposit saved.
He has never hit me and I don't believe he would. He spent way too much time in jail due to his ex. He has found better ways to hurt me. The only thing that hurts him is threatening his finances. I'll calm the beast buy looking focused on getting the finances where he wants them to be in 8 months.
I'm glad i found a place I know I can go to for some direction. None of my friends and family understand, they have normal lifes!
How did he find out...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
How did he find out that you saw the text??
>>>
It's funny how he only wants to focus on the fact that I invaded his privacy but getting into his phone. He sees nothing wrong with the lies and deception, it's once again my actions that are the only issue.
>>>
this is classic. There was a TV show called, "Cheaters." The innocent spouse would contact this "spy team" who would follow the 'likely guilty spouse" to find out if he/she were cheating. Once confronted with "hard proof" or confronted "red handed," it was always funny to see how many cheaters were angry that their innocent spouse had hired this spy team to catch the cheating spouse. lol...as if "finding out" is "bad".
Be sure to have some things packed and in your car now. You may need to make a quick exit.
Once your H realizes that you're no longer going to be his "extra money," he is going to be very angry.. Clearly, he hoped to use your income to pay off his debts.
Also....I wouldn't believe his stories about how/why he went to jail because of his exwife. Very likely, he did some bad things either to her, or to the kids, or something. Very likely, he twists stories about her, just like he does about you. He's the "innocent" one....sure...right......uh, not.
I Also Concur About the Stories From His Past
Submitted by kellyj on
It can be very unsettling to think about this but many (or possibly most or even all ) of the things he has said about himself may simply not be true. You as a trusting honest person and are use to people telling you the truth about themselves and there is no reason for you not to do believe his past stories as you have, but for someone like this....the stories they tell you are mostly fabricated and manufactured to fit how they see themselves and are not based on reality.
One of the tell tale signs of the kind of issues we are talking about is that their words do not always match up with their actions. If this is what you are used to and know already.....you need to extrapolate that backwards in time and realize that many of the things you believed are probably not true either. This is a tough one to accept and it's more than disturbing but remember....you have nothing to do with this and you were just doing what anyone would do in your shoes.....trust the person you are with the same as you want them to do for you.
Nothing he does is your fault....... try not to take it personally because it really isn't as hard as it is not to let this effect you that way. (he's just a shark looking for food:)
The one thing you said earlier about this still hurting no matter what how you look at these things I think is hardest part to deal with. Of course it hurts. You would not be a normal healthy person if it didn't. But it will help you stay objective and do what you need to do if you can remove yourself from this hurt for now by seeing all the ways you can that nothing he does is personal to you in that it will be the same for everyone no matter where he goes in the future (or in the past).
J
Yes, I'm the evil one because
Submitted by Kansasry on
Yes, I'm the evil one because I invaded his privacy. It's not the first time, but like J says below, when his actions don't match his words, I know something is wrong. When my gut tells me something is wrong, I'll look. I hope each time to find nothing and just blame my insecurities. But almost every time I find the smoking gun. But the invasions are the only issue he seems to want to address.
I told him I found it. I was going to do a lot of changing around the next day and he would be alerted anyway.I didn't expect it to go well and it didn't but now when he bitches to his buddy who is saving a room for him, the buddy will know I didn't just try and rip the H off. I found out he was going to screw me over and I took control. The H can't lie to that one person that I took money or messed up the finances for no reason.
And H wouldn't let the changes go without an explanation. Now he knows why my checks don't go to the joint account. He will know why I have my own cell phone plan, not his. He will know why he can't sell or hide my car without going to jail when her gets the temp holding order freezing assets next week.
I don't know how he looked at me everyday knowing he was going to pull the rug out but I'm not like that. I think he should know he's screwed and it's all his fault.
At This Point Kansary..
Submitted by kellyj on
I would just tell him the truth by simply saying "I don't trust you" and leave that as your explanation for anything if he asks why you are doing what you are doing. It pretty much sums it up right there with no other explanation needed. What ever he comes up with as a reason for his actions after that.....it really doesn't matter what he says unless he can prove to you differently and be held accountable for his actions but I would still proceed according if I were you. Straight up.
J
That was the plan. I don't
Submitted by Kansasry on
That was the plan. I don't trust him. I already told him he basically came back on a loan of trust and hope, now he's defaulted and his credit's no good here.
It was good to have the weekend to myself to reflect and take note of things with some clarity. J, you mentioned that someone like this can't understand love, it's not their currency. Respect is the only thing they know and can offer.
When H proposed to me, he said he decided to do it that day because I had told my best friend that I didn't want to meet her boyfriend because she is married. I told her I held no ill to her or him however I don't agree with what they are doing and I can't participate. H told me he respected what I did and said so much that he knew he needed to ask me. He asked the next day.
I'm sure you are correct, respect is what he knows. It explains his motives to publicly shame me and tell lies to his friends. If they believe anything I say, he might loose some respect. He placed a higher value on keeping their respect than he did on me. He was and is willing to drag this marriage into the ground rather than tarnish his image.
I found an article where they wrote that women need love: compliments, time and attention, connecting allowing their voice to be heard and men need respect: space and time to do their thing, no nagging, fluffing their ego and noting accomplishments.
What's funny is I gave him tons of respect. I never asked him to help with house hold chores, I let him do his own thing (cars/computer games out with friends) and I always fluffed his ego and reminded him of his accomplishments and skills. But he never gave me any of that love stuff.
What he has done is behave in a disrespectfully way to me on several occasions. When I would speak up it must have hurt his ego (even if I was in the right to speak up) and I bet each time I repeated the same request he lost more and more respect for me.
He told me that when he was married he stopped opening doors for his ex because he had no respect for her. He told me if he stops that for me, that's why and at that point it's over for us. He hasn't opened my doors in a year and a half.
Focus
Submitted by kellyj on
I just watched the movie "Focus" with Will Smith and I thought of what you said "I don't know how he looked at me everyday knowing he was going to pull the rug out but I'm not like that."
I remembered sitting in my T's office trying to make sense of the same thing you are. I said to him " I wouldn't do something like this to my worst enemy" quote, unquote. My T told me that a person who fits this profile thinks like this 24/7 and are always on the make. You might even say it's a coping mechanism as screwed up as that sounds but in reality....not so far from the truth.
If you haven't seen the movie it's a pretty good one anyway if you like Will Smith. I think it does a pretty good job of depicting the mind set if you are interested. It may be disturbing to you (the movie itself isn't...it a pretty like hearted and palatable romance as it sits) only in that it might open your eyes more than you want to right now. If it were me (as I was)...I really wanted to understand and it would be helpful to see what you are dealing with.(more sharks) Keeping in mind...this is extreme and more criminal (immoral) but the thinking process itself is not that far off the mark. Extremes sometimes serve to make things less ambiguous just to get the basic idea. I'm not saying your H is like this or is capable of the same thing but more to show you or answer the question you asked specifically just for you're basic understanding. I hope I made that differentiation clear. My experience was not so far off this example so I can't speak for anyone else here.
Another movie that was definitely disturbing was "The Councilor" with Cameron Diaz, Brad Pitt, Javier Barden shows the evil side of this. Cameron Diaz plays a most disturbing profile of the female side of this (worse case scenario). Not recommended if you are faint at heart in general and probably not good for you right now...a bit scary indeed.
J
I saw that movie a few weeks
Submitted by Kansasry on
Sorry it's so nasty Kansasry...
Submitted by c ur self on
Sounds like a very unhealthy environment....I've lived in one also....it's better in many respects at this time...our desire to be normal keeps driving us back to engage one another....but, when someone is living a second life...when a spouse has things to hide and no commitment to be open and loving, when there is no commitment what do we really have? At that point doesn't wisdom warn us no matter how much we would like to work positively toward the relationship isn't it time to see reality?
I'm sorry this has come to this, but, unless you two are going to be able to trust, if all the things like $ and personal good times is going to take precedence over the marriage commitment...It isn't healthy and it's really just an illusion and no better than having a bad room mate....
I pray this all goes well for you Kansasry....