Hello all…I have been lurking here for sometime and just want to say a BIG thank you to you all. Having access to a site like this has been very helpful in my quest to understand ADD.
I have a question about setting boundaries, I’m hoping you can help me with, but first some background details.
My partner is going thru the process of diagnosis, which is difficult because of our current location (more about that later). We have been together for 8 years, the first year and a half we lived in different towns and only saw each other infrequently, then we started living together and it didn’t take long to figure out something was not quite right. Sure he was a bit forgetful, disorganised etc but that didn’t really bother me as he has many good qualities too. What really bugged me was the issue of communication, don’t get me wrong he has no trouble in talking, in fact we gave him the nickname of “Mr have a chat” because no matter where we went he would always strike up a conversation with anybody! But I noticed between us, his conversation was always on the lighthearted or everyday subjects, never anything deep and meaningful or intimate unless I started it, he very rarely asked any questions, and sometimes seemed disinterested when I’m talking to him, which given his overall behaviour seemed out of character. Of course I talked to him about it and was given the classic “ I will have to try harder” speech, and he did, but it only lasted for so long. That set the pattern for the next few years, then we moved to a remote location, where the nearest neighbour was 40km’s away, so it was just us…. 24/7…..I thought it would be great, working together, having to rely on each other, all the things we said we wanted, peace and quiet, grow our own veggies, have time to spend on our hobbies (well my hobbies, he doesn’t have any).....it would bring us closer together….RIGHT???
I can see some of you chuckling or shaking your heads J Of course what it really did was dramatically show the ADD traits in all their glory…..the chronic forgetfulness, simple conversations have become a nightmare with the mishearing and misunderstanding, having to repeat myself to the point where I just want to scream in frustration, the avoidance and denial…I could go on but you all know the score! There was also a couple of bout’s of depression to contend with, and all the time I was trying to figure out (singlehandedly) what the problem was, until eventually I was exhausted said “you need to get some help or I’m outta here”. The night I delivered that ultimatum, I went online, found this site, spent the next few hour’s reading and going wow, yep, uh huh that’s him to a tee!
I’ve purchased a couple of books, just finished Gina Pera’s, Is it you, me or Adult ADD, learnt about enabling, so I’m conscious of that now, and he is seeing a therapist, but unfortunately she is 650km’s away, so that’s only every 8 weeks.
My question is this…how do you set boundaries when the main problem is communication and in particular for me the lack of intimate conversation, and I’m not talking sexual, I’m talking about the personal private type of conversations that couples have about everything and anything, so as the years pass you KNOW each other and thru that have formed a deep connection. But even our normal conversations are lacking, since we have been living up here, I will say something about an interesting article I read on facebook for example, and he will respond with “oh rightyho” or something similar, doesn’t ask any questions to keep the conversation going or lead on with another topic that it may have reminded him of.
In regards to communication about ADD, I have suggested that since he can only see a therapist infrequently , we need to talk about it regularly, he needs to let me know what he is thinking, feeling when an ADD related issue arises, I suggested reading an article every morning, written by someone on this site who has ADD and lists what ADDer’s need to do, including over communicating with their spouses, I’ve suggested discussing the ADD books or articles on theis website, I suggest writing lists, reminder’s etc and he agree’s with everything I’ve said…and none of it happens or happens once and is forgotten again and I’m done nagging, reminding and hoping!
Anyway…thanks for listening, hoping you might have some idea’s.
Hi, Raven,
Submitted by Standing on
You wrote: But even our normal conversations are lacking, since we have been living up here, I will say something about an interesting article I read on facebook for example, and he will respond with “oh rightyho” or something similar, doesn’t ask any questions to keep the conversation going or lead on with another topic that it may have reminded him of.
This has been my experience, too. What has helped me the most with this continual "falling flat" of opportunities to converse is - I have stopped taking offense. I know now that my husband's lack of what I might judge an appropriate response does not reflect on me; nor does it reflect on his level of care for me or commitment to me. I simply have not spoken of something that interests him and therefore wakes up his brain! In my marriage, I've decided that I must grow to become okay with this, because there's nothing he or I can do to change it. It is the way he is wired. For a long while, I had stopped communicating anything to him, because it seemed so futile! What's the use?!? He hated that. He missed the exchanges, even though he could rarely recall their content. I thought he was being phony and fake, but now I believe he is simply being himself. Regardless of whether or not his frontal lobe is stimulated enough to absorb the meaning of my words, he does indeed enjoy my sharing, so I have resumed that. His appreciation is evident.
This is a very recent development in our relationship. For many years, I was nothing but angry and disappointed over the situation. Finally, I reached the point where I could not continue that way and I have been grieving the loss of what I thought I wanted and needed, what I expected from marriage, what I felt I had been cheated out of. That is definitely a loss to be grieved, in order to step forward into acceptance. I cannot say for sure how much I will be able to accept. My husband is a wild card and he may toss something out there which causes me to draw another line in the sand, but as far as who he is? I must accept and believe, because he has shown me clearly that much of this is beyond his control.
I hope that helps!
Hi Standing
Submitted by Raven64 on
Thank you for responding and for your advise
Since discovering he has (not yet diagnosed, but I will be very very surprised if it isn’t) ADD, I have been trying not to take the seeming disinterest personally, but as we know, it is hard, and I’m still trying to find that place between, ‘not taking it personally’ to ‘ emotionally shutting off’.
I have been alternating between grieving and anger for some time now, I always thought the lack of intimate communication stemmed from the fact that he had a terrible childhood and two previous relationships where his spouses cheated on him (tho I’m sure these things have had a big impact too), so there was understandably some trust issues, and I thought when he felt comfortable enough with me, then that would improve. I can now see that I have been making excuses and enabling his behaviours, and the above fantasy is exactly that!
When I finished Gina Pera’s book, I was puzzled by my lack of enthusiasm after reading some of the success stories, but then I realised that in nearly all cases, these couples were trying to get back to how they used to be ie: “we were best friends in the beginning” and I thought, well that’s the difference, we never really had it to start with besides the initial exchange of previous relationship stories, but I never noticed the complete absence of it until we started living together.
As I said before, the everyday conversation, was never an issue until we moved up here and I wonder if the lack of outside stimulation plays a part in that, in summer when it’s very hot here, you only see the mailman once a week and maybe the boss if anything needs his attention. I have to acknowledge my role in this too, because like you did, I don’t communicate with him as much as I used to, for various reasons – the having to repeat myself constantly, the miscommunications, the why bother he won’t remember it anyway etc
You said your husband hated it when you stopped communicating with him, that he missed the exchanges and since you have resumed his appreciation is evident. Can I ask how you know these things, is it because he told you verbally or have you deduced it from his actions?
I tried not saying anything, beyond answering questions with as few words as possible and only asking him something if I really needed to know the answer….it was 3 weeks before he asked if anything was bothering me! At the moment we are living as two people who work together and share a house, this was my suggestion to basically put our relationship on pause until we move back home, he agreed, but I have no idea if this makes him happy, sad or if he really couldn’t care less, because I get no feedback from him.
I’ve come to the conclusion, that until he is able to get medication to help his memory and ability to focus, there will not be much improvement, and because of our present circumstances we won’t be heading back to civilisation until April next year. But I am not the do nothing kind of person, so in the meantime, I have read that we, non ADDer’s need to set boundaries, and that ADDer’s respond better when there are clear consequences for their actions/inactions, but how do you do this with something intangible like not communicating, it’s not like someone who spends impulsively, so you can agree on an action, that if they don’t stop, the credit card account will be closed and an agreed amount of money will be set aside each week for that person.
What are the consequences for someone who keeps promising to try harder at talking on a personal level, but never follows thru?
What are the consequences for someone who pretends to have heard you but then you find out later, they actually have no idea what you said?
What are the consequences for someone who keeps repeating themselves, and when, after the 3rd time you say, yes you have told me that twice, and they get grumpy with you?
What are the consequences for someone, who after you have discussed and agreed upon something, then does something else, not because he is being deliberately difficult, but because he has forgotten what we agreed upon?
I realise medication will help with some of these, but what do I do in the meantime….this is my dilemma!
Raven, do you receive the
Submitted by Standing on
Raven, do you receive the weekly email of Marriage Tips? I believe that I signed up for them when first joining this forum. Today's is about The Punisher. That's the role I unwittingly assumed through many years of my marriage. I'm not sure how consequences can be enacted for failure to be emotionally intimate without putting the non-add person into that Punisher role. I only know that this is most definitely not effective with my husband. The sort of boundaries I think of are more about guarding my own heart from his insufficiencies, not about teaching him to become more skilled. I can't teach that to him... but I can work toward making him desire more intimacy. And I can fill my own deeper needs by connecting with other people who don't have add... others with common interests.
You wrote: "everyday conversation was never an issue until we moved up here and I wonder if the lack of outside stimulation plays a part in that" - Yes, I think definitely so. We spent 8 years in a rural (not remote) setting, and I suspect that the lack of stimulation was a big factor in my husband's continual fight-picking/nit-picking/micro-managing of my kids, who have since grown and (mostly) gone. Or he would "check out" via video games. Or he would depress and sulk (generally when reprimanded for the above-mentioned activities). But there was never any of what I would call everyday conversation. There's more of that now, since we live in town, but it's still very one-sided.
You also wrote: "When I finished Gina Pera’s book, I was puzzled by my lack of enthusiasm after reading some of the success stories, but then I realised that in nearly all cases, these couples were trying to get back to how they used to be ie: “we were best friends in the beginning” and I thought, well that’s the difference, we never really had it to start with besides the initial exchange of previous relationship stories, but I never noticed the complete absence of it until we started living together."
Same here. I fell in love with an illusion. We met online, he hyperfocused on me, I was swept away, and we were married within 2 months. I have been in survival mode ever since and have struggled to muster any enthusiasm for success, until very recently. What I think has turned me around is my meeting with a counselor for the past several months, participation here on this forum, joining a local church group (don't feel so alone now), and - just very recently - a talk I had with my husband during which something he said finally hit my heart. This ties in with what you asked me:
" You said your husband hated it when you stopped communicating with him, that he missed the exchanges and since you have resumed his appreciation is evident. Can I ask how you know these things, is it because he told you verbally or have you deduced it from his actions?"
He told me verbally, without raging (for once) and without clubbing me over the head with my lack of sexual initiation (for once) and without any sort of other argument beneath the surface - - during a recent time when we were actually getting along much better - he simply told me. And my heart heard him. He said that when I do not seek him out, do not show him affection at ordinary moments, do not show attention by physical touch and words of affirmation, he feels that I do not love him and he figures, what's the use. To him, my attempts at setting boundaries left him feeling completely alone and isolated, This was not only in reference to sex, but the random comments and sharing of info that I had completely cut off, since he often did not appear to respond anyway. What I learned from him is that he receives alot more than he is able to respond to. Not only receives, but values. IF it is positive and calm and loving. He has often told me that he does not hear a word from me unless it's something negative. That became a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. I gave up, then he gave up. I had no idea that he sincerely valued all the bits and pieces of stuff I used to share (regardless of the fact that he did not recall 90 percent of it). It's the tone he values, the sense that we shared a moment, that for a bit we were on the same page... it's the only sense of comraderie he seems to be able to experience! I don't think I'm explaining this very well, but it's one of those things that I've heard from him for years, in varying stages of frustration and anger, but this was the first time all those emotions did not cloud the view. He wasn't taking issue with me, he was sharing. He showed me who he is and - despite all the many, many ways I do not think he and I will ever, ever connect... I felt connected to him.
I think that all those things around which you feel a need to set boundaries are more a matter of setting boundaries around your self. Will you continue to encourage him to trust you enough to share who he is and then believe him and accept him if who he is turns out to be OH so much simpler than you had ever imagined?
Will you accept that a great deal of what you say to him never makes contact with his brain, but you have a much better chance of making contact if you touch him and look into his eyes, then make it a short sentence, with very few details?
Will you turn his repetitveness into a friendly joke that the two of you can share? Write it down after the 2nd time he tells it, then hold up the paper on the third go-round? (seriously, this works)
Will you put serious agreements into writing and be prepared to let the not-so-serious ones go without angst when he does the opposite? Umm... not really sure that will help, but it's a work in progress here.
Honestly, the best medicine for a situation where you are faced with all of these conflicting feelings is - I think - set yourself a time limit for rolling around in them and grieving the loss good and hard. Then take the same amount of time and think on nothing but the things about this person that make him special and unique.
Last night, I called my husband into the room because there was a VERY large spider on the floor. I was holding the dog back from playing with this VERY large wolf spider (at least that's the excuse I used :)) and said, honey, would you please get this?
He walked over agreeably, bent down, and what did he do?
He blew on the spider, which promptly scurried beneath the frig.
I could not believe my eyes. Why in the world would you do such a thing?!? "I wanted to see if it would move."
sigh. I hope you have an excellent sense of humor, Raven :) Gonna need it!
Standing, Could you clarify.....
Submitted by Raven64 on
Could you clarify (the part in bold) what you mean by this….I think I understand what your saying, but just want to make sure
Will you continue to encourage him to trust you enough to share who he is and then believe him and accept him if who he is turns out to be OH so much simpler than you had ever imagined?
You wrote - I don't think I'm explaining this very well, but it's one of those things that I've heard from him for years, in varying stages of frustration and anger, but this was the first time all those emotions did not cloud the view. He wasn't taking issue with me, he was sharing. He showed me who he is and - despite all the many, many ways I do not think he and I will ever, ever connect... I felt connected to him.
I think you explained it very well and I’m glad you experienced that moment with him, it’s exactly what I was trying to explain is missing from our relationship, the sharing and showing me who he is. In reply to your other comments and questions: I think that all those things around which you feel a need to set boundaries are more a matter of setting boundaries around yourself. To be honest I don’t want to set boundaries, it was suggested in the book I read, and I thought it might be a start until we can see a therapist regularly, but then, I couldn’t figure how to implement it with something like communication issues.
Will you turn his repetitveness into a friendly joke that the two of you can share? Write it down after the 2nd time he tells it, then hold up the paper on the third go-round? (seriously, this works)
Been saying this for the past 2 years Also suggested he should makes jokes about my annoying habits, I love joking and bantering. Sadly most of the time he seems to think I’m picking on him…the old ADD hyper sensitiveness!
Will you put serious agreements into writing and be prepared to let the not-so-serious ones go without angst when he does the opposite? Umm... not really sure that will help, but it's a work in progress here.
Funny you should mention this….when I first started reading on this forum, one of things I quickly realised was that the ADD person needs to trust the non ADDer, because of their poor memory etc. I mentioned this to my partner and he said, what they need is a roommate agreement, like in The Big Bang Theory, I said, what a brilliant idea…….then your agreements are in writing, signed and dated by both of you, can be reviewed periodically and it takes the onus off the nonADDer.
Will you accept that a great deal of what you say to him never makes contact with his brain, but you have a much better chance of making contact if you touch him and look into his eyes, then make it a short sentence, with very few details?
Have to be honest and say, I’ve got every available digit crossed that medication is going to help with this, because the thought of having to do that for the rest of my life is unappealing.
Then take the same amount of time and think on nothing but the things about this person that make him special and unique.
That is pretty easy to do, because he is a lovely, genuine person, who is very easy to live with, and like I have said to him, we all have to make compromises in any relationship and if it was anything other than communication I would be more than willing! We really don’t argue or have problems in any other aspect of our relationship.
I had been married previously for 15 years and for many years after that I reflected on why it had failed, I came to the conclusion it was from lack of communication, not so much on my ex husbands part (he needed to learn listening skills) but on mine. He was very controlling and instead of speaking up, I said nothing, but of course resentment grew instead…maybe the relationship would have ended sooner if I had spoken up or maybe we would have been able to work it out….we’ll never know because I didn’t, so I resolved that in my next relationship, I wouldn’t do that again.
When I first met my current partner, I explained all this to him and why having good communication is very important to me, and he agreed with me and told me that “ he was the kind of guy who could talk about anything” The universe has a warped sense of humour, because this time around it’s him saying nothing instead of me, but the difference is, I do have good listening skills
So I guess the real question is …if good communication is the one thing I won’t compromise on, why have I let it go on for long?
Thinking about trying to kid
Submitted by Standing on
Thinking about trying to kid around about foibles.... He sounds very insecure. My husband was more so throughout the first years of our marriage, until he more recently has experienced some success in business and found his niche. His increased level of self- confidence has been a mixed blessing. He's had more ferocious, mean, bullying moments than ever before, but once I learned to draw boundaries around those, he's learned the limits and become more receptive to my thoughts. A bit. I do have to be cautious not to carry on too long with any teasing, or he says that he feels made-fun-of. And I have to remind myself to show him more tenderness and affection, because that part of me has withered quite alot over the years.
I don't know, Raven. Maybe I'm putting too much of my own situation into other peoples' relationships, but there are just so many things about add that are so strikingly alike! Every single behavior I've read about from other posters' on this forum, I have seen exhibited by my husband, with only a couple exceptions. Knowing my own tendencies to over-complicate matters, I've found some comfort in trying to simplify. I've always heard men say that they truly are simple creatures. I've also read that the asperger-syndrome mind is basically like having an ultra-male perspective. I've read about the autism spectrum and see alot of my husband in there, too. Also my oldest daughter, who is 32 now, never diagnosed, but I am thoroughly convinced that she is adHd. Her life and situation are extremely troubled and there is nothing I can do about it. All of that to say - - these seem to be simple people who want what they want and they want it Now. It does not get any more complex than that, because the brain wiring won't allow for that. Depression, anxiety, drugs, alcohol .... these may muddy the waters and lead down other painful paths, but at the root of it all is that constant craving. By enduring the battles and earning the trust of such a person, he or she may come to an understanding of another's needs and a desire to please the other, but one drive is always at the forefront. I see it in my husband every moment of each day. He would tell you that he is a simple creature. He wants what he wants. Period.
I do believe that medication will help with his availability to receive input and to respond more adequately. It used to help here... but the adderall is not effective anymore. Tomorrow, we will get his eval results. That's only the tip of the iceberg, since a change of medication will require ongoing appointments and monitoring. I'm talking about a guy who told me the other day that he is sure most women have to put up with a whole lot more than I do. Yep, he's fine and dandy. :)
I don't know whether your partner is like this, but as long as my husband is getting his basic needs met, he does not hold a grudge. I can speak the truth to him about anything now, as long as I do not withhold affection and fellowship from him as a consequence. So I can get it out of my system and draw a firm line when absolutely necessary (as I did about his getting evaluated), but I cannot rely on him to remember to do x, y, and z on a regular basis. I could help him to make a list, but then we'd lose the list. Why do I want to focus my life around getting him to be more of what the neurotypical portion of the population considers a "responsible adult"? That is what I ask myself. And I apologize, I am babbling :) I have told him: the only reason that he and I have stuff to discuss now is that we work together in his business. That is our commonality. I used to resent that he did not meet me where I was, cognitively or emotionally. Now I see that if there is to be a meeting, I'll have to be the one to shuffle on over, because whatever thought is lodged in his brain at the moment has him bound and gagged. Wow, I hope that does not sound hopeless, because it's not. We shall see what happens if/when he gets on another medication, but I don't expect much change in the area of putting my dreams ahead of his whims.
Here's an example from today: I would like to visit my daughter in a foreign country. I showed him some pictures of the area where she is living.
Him: I want to go to ______ (a country where he has a business contact, where he would get to dive headfirst into the area where his greatest passion lies).
No mention of trying to do both, just his typical response to the few things I ever mention that I might like = he tells me what he wants. I'm not upset about it, only firmly convinced that if I do decide to make a trip, it will be my doing, on my own, not because he joined in me the joys of anticipation or planning.
Such is life :)