This is something I wonder about. Doesn't an often distracted person somehow need to be extra affirmative of others? At work I'm constantly approached by coworkers and have to produce decisions for them in the middle of doing something else. I feel since I act confused and indecisive when my thoughts are interrupted, make mistakes and then change my mind that I need to be extra kind to the people who put up with it.
ADHD people close to me are naturally even more distracted. I find I quickly lose patience with them since they don't really try to compensate for it.
Does anybody else feel it's hard to distinguish between ADHD distraction and arrogance? There's a fine line there, and most of the time I'm not sure what I'm seeing. Sadly this disrupts several close connections for me. Possibly because decades of ADD marriage have made me extra irritable to self-centered and entitled behavior. But I remember being angry with some of these people even as a child for their unawareness.
I wish I could see the difference better and also have more compassion for ADHD behavior in my loved ones. But I suck at it at this point.
Meanwhile, these relationships grow quite cold. Despite everyone involved wishing it were different. It's sad, but I don't know what to do about it. It's also mostly up to me to initiate any change, as usual. And we need each other.
I may be able to shed some light...
Submitted by J on
on what you're asking Swedish. I'm not exactly sure what you're seeing but if I'm correct, you're seeing a connection ( specifically ) between distraction and appearing arrogant?
I remember times my parents would both get irritated or outright angry with me. What I remember in context, they'd be trying to talk with me and I'd be in my head off in another world. When they finally got my attention, they were already mad. If asked, "why do you do that!!" ...I'd say something like, " I don't know? It's just the way I am?" And I remember one time in a particularly hurtful moment them saying " well, if you continue to be that way, people are not going to like you". Which, even as a kid, you get the message they're saying " people...and WE don't like you". That part comes through loud and clear.
My best answer now, is, when I go hyper focus, or get distracted lost in my thoughts I become very quiet. As a kid, I was painfully shy and didn't engage with people unless I got to know them and felt comfortable around them. I did this because I was afraid of saying something wrong. Shyness could be misinterpret as being aloof: uninterested in a superior way as in : I'm too good for this, or what you're saying is not important enough to give you my attention because you're boring. So shyness could actually look and feel like being aloof, but actually it's done out of fear and shame ( shyness ) because you've learned you get a negative reaction from people when you open your mouth... but you don't know why? Either people can't follow you or you're taking too much.
All of that falls under the category of: "if you continue to act that way, people aren't going to like you". I believed my parents and took that to heart. From that, comes all kinds of over compensating behaviors to counter low self esteem and feelings of inferiority. I imagine, over compensating for feeling inferior could be all kinds of strategies that could come across as "superior" acting...like arogance and possibly lack of humility?
The problem comes, when, on one hand, you're trying to be or "act yourself" in a natural or authentic way ( it's just the way I am ) and you've told the way you are naturally is unacceptable and no one will like you if you act that way. So you start literally "acting" differently and trying to mask who you really are including all the defensive mechanisms you learn to employ just to cope. For me, not saying anything and being incredibly shy...was my way to cope and deal with this. If shyness is misinterpreted as being aloof or superior...then someone is completely missing the reason of why that person is being that way. Not saying anything and keeping my mouth shut, proved to be less problematic than actually talking most of the time. Based on that...not talking, or saying very little was safe.
I don't know if that's what you're experiencing but for me, that's how that all worked.
Thank you J
Submitted by Swedish coast on
You give a heartbreaking description of how an ADHD child is misinterpreted.
What I'm struggling with could be fear-driven avoidance in my adult relatives. I'd say it looks more like they don't want to participate in keeping family together. They don't seem to want to follow family traditions I grew up with, or make new ones when I've asked them what they'd like. Even though they say they want to see us, they don't reciprocate socially. It comes across rather like they can't be bothered, or that their time is so much more precious than mine. Maybe they think it's beneath them to do things for others. Or they just don't agree with my lifestyle with children and responsibilities. They continue like when we were all a bit self-centered in our twenties. This is what I mean by arrogance.
I've been sad and frustrated for years and told them I can't host every family event and plan every celebration ahead. Meanwhile they sometimes don't decide until the last moment if they will attend. They act entitled to this freedom.
They might not be interested in family (but they emphasize they are) or family gatherings (there seems to be a preference for meeting one on one, which works for these single people but is impractical and insufficient for my family of four. It's not like they ever ask to see the children one on one, or take them anywhere at all. To me it's necessary for a group of people to connect once in a while, else the sense of belonging will fade). It could be that they feel inferior for not having families or feel I'm burdening them with bourgeois expectations. It may be that they can't plan (but they can plan other things).
Whatever it is, I've come to realize extended family probably has a lot of ADHD. It's not only my marriage that has been stressful all these years, it's also close relatives who have acted like my husband - passively, and like they can't take adult responsibility.
Im hurt that during the increasingly difficult marriage, my relatives who have very few obligations did nothing to relieve me of work for extended family.
We all feel family's falling apart but everyone except me seems clueless of how to change things.
I loved to host and want to be generous. With family, it's difficult. I still had them over last weekend. I can do my part. Maybe that's as good as it gets.
Swedish
Submitted by J on
Getting into the realm of family dynamics and how this all works I am woefully uneducated. This is where, I can only offer my own experiences and what I've learned from it. Is it as good as it gets? Maybe so. Maybe accepting what is and not trying to change it will relieve your suffering? I'm taking that from Echart Tolle, someone that's helped me gain perspective and adopting many of his views to see me through things.
Along this line of thinking, I also wanted to say in relation to your thoughts about "distraction" being part of what you were initially saying. It's why I was a little confused and not exactly sure where you were going with that. All I wanted to say about that is this: from knowing myself and how distraction works in terms of ADHD. It's always "in the moment"....or as Echart Tolle would say, "in the now".It's a qlich in the system...a brain fart....and interruption or shunt in brain function....that stops the natural flow of information and thoughts from fluidly happening as it should. And it only affects the person experiencing it... but only in that moment when it happens. It really doesn't extend to anything thing else if you follow? So trying to apply that type of distraction to the things your talking about, I'm not sure if that's the reason or why these things are happening?
Here's a few things I know for sure based on my own family experience and everyone involved ( the dynamics ) If you like, it's an example of a dysfunctional dynamic for sure. This involves my mom mostly, and her part to play in this type of dynamic. With the best of intentions as well. I firmly believe she was trying her best with what she had to work with plus, bringing her own family dysfunction along with her. She was playing the same part of this play, as she did in her own family which one might expect? What else did she know? And just a reminder, I was the youngest by many years so I had my own unique perspective on all of this.
Because of the "dysfunction", my mother was trying to hold it all together. She became the gate keeper that all information passed through and distributed among all the members in the family. With that same best intention, without fully understanding what she was doing, she became the triangulator of said, information, in an effort to get everyone on the same page. Unfortunately, this is a form of manipulation because all the other parties involved never get a chance to have a meeting of minds, or get a chance to resolve things one on one? This actually prevented us to bond with each other, because she was in a real sense, interfering with that process. And as the gatekeeper, that information became filtered by her own ideas and thoughts on just how "she wanted it to be". In essence, she was in control of the narrative, and with that same best of intentions, omitting anything that she deemed as "not fitting" into the narrative she created in her mind as the way things "should be".
Unfortunately, this was all made up in her own head. Her "vision " of the ways things ought to be. The problem with that is: things were far from that ideal kind of family. The elephant in the room was it was a dysfunctional one at best and she was powerless in trying to fix that all by herself. A huge part of that was no one was talking or communicating with each other, the things that were wrong.
And then along I came, with my special talent of pointing these things out, which, if everyone is in denial, doesn't go over very well ! Lol
Which is in part, why I learned to keep my mouth shut....for my own self preservation.
Going back to Eckhart Tollle's notion that all human suffering comes from not accepting what is, in the now....and the more you resist what is, the more we suffer. Some things to think about at least?
J
Distraction
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I was guessing distraction could explain my relatives' inability to make something of our family life. Since they always seem to be caught by surprise - whoops, it's Christmas! But maybe that isn't even it at all. I don't understand them and I doubt I ever will.
The dynamic you write about is relatable too. In my opinion the mother, who seems to often get to carry the wider responsibilities for the family, has a key function, but also can't be automatically blamed when the family is dysfunctional.
I think it's everybody's responsibility to communicate and do it openly. The one on one conversation is obviously necessary as a basis of everything, and to prepare announcements in front of everyone. But one on one is not enough. There needs to be a space for everyone to speak up and be heard by all. This common space carries the story of the family. I used to have a family member who could make little speeches about us all. Like saying grace. It made us feel seen and accepted. That was so valuable. Now I don't know what's happening, nobody speaks, there is silent conflict and distance and nothing is ever resolved.
I guess if somebody hated my guts or thought I had been grossly unfair, I'd never hear it.
I would be so interested in who my relatives are today. What their values are. What they think really. And what can be done about this sad family dynamic.
Acceptance is what I'm trying. I just feel uneasy at the thought something might be done about all the bad feelings, and I'm missing the opportunity because of relatives' silence, avoidance, opacity.
Thanks J for thinking together with me.
This is why....
Submitted by J on
I've spent so much time trying to narrow down exactly what is wrong at the source. And that answer for me lies in the attachment theory especially the avoident one. I know and understand my own insecure attachment but as you said, without open communication and the ability to speak your mind without repercussions, to have a difference of opinion without a fight, to not be punished for saying how you feel that is different than everyone else or better, to see things from a different point of view and have a real conversation about it...nothing ever gets resolved and no consensus is ever made. If you aren't allowed to do this and have it be "okay"...then you learn that it's not okay to point out even the smallest thing that may be affecting you negatively.
Simply put. If something presented as constructive criticism for another's benefit, and it can only be perceived as a threat and a personal attack, and the reaction is defense from said "attack" on their person....then there's little you can say to come to some kind of compromise or way for two people to get along. And if that person is doing things that hurt you ...and everything is perceived as an attack ( on them ) you are always going to be viewed as the attacker...and there's little you can do, to come to some kind of agreement until something changes. No effective communication can be had until those defenses come down. All you can do is avoid criticizing that person ( even constructively )....in the midst of them criticizing you.
In my case...I'm already sensitive to being criticized which means, my buttons are constantly being pushed...while at the same time...I'm doing my best not to push the person's buttons who's doing it. It becomes a struggle at best sometimes.
If the answer is not to say anything to keep the peace...then nothing ever gets said....and the status quo continues on indefinitely.
This is what I'm finding unacceptable, at the same time, learning to be less sensitive to criticism myself. I do have some control of that part. And until I've done my part to my own satisfaction, then I haven't done my best yet. I still have some work to do there.
Well written
Submitted by Swedish coast on
J, this is beautifully written. It is a thoughtful reflection on pain with an open heart.
This same dynamic has played out in my family too and for my part came to closure this summer. Hurts since childhood have been put to rest.
It happened because we had a hard conversation where I asked not to be invalidated. Invalidating has been long-standing, and it's because the person in question hasn't had the skills to avoid it. Now I stated it's also easy to forgive. The problem isn't that that person has been terrible, they haven't, but rather that effects on me have been.
The person could accept this. Since my "accusations" now were already accompanied by understanding and forgiveness. We concluded all people will hurt their loved ones by mistake. We are all guilty of fault. It doesn't make us less. This is a huge relief for me. I've renewed a loving relationship with this person and lost the hurt.
I think this might make me a better parent. Since I too know I'm not faultless and don't need to defend that idea.
There's a feeling of being close to the ground. Close to accepting hurt and apologizing. It's freeing.
I only wish the rest of the family could sort things out for themselves.
Swedish, I neglected to add....
Submitted by J on
to my other comment referring to my mother and her unintentional interfering with the relationships between my sisters and even my father. Some of this is just birth order, years between, the "fixed role" you get assigned that's difficult to get out of and a communication break down between my father and I ( not seeing eye to eye on many things ).
This is all family stuff that I assume, all families deal with on some level even in the healthiest of family dynamics. There's no right or wrong in other words...it happens to all families.
When my mother died, and my sisters and I had a very long discussion about our past and relationship to my mom. My sisters told me things I never heard before. Things that my mother said to them (not me ) growing up including some hurtful things. It was a cathartic moment for sure. But what I immediately gathered from that was this: if you're hearing one version of the story ( from my mother) and then hearing a completely different one from your siblings, you quickly realize how damaging this triangulation can be when wedges are created between siblings because everyone is getting a different version of what the others are doing, feeling and their experiences if the story teller is omitting some vital information. The bias becomes very apparent when everyone gets together and compares stories.
This is getting back to your original question about ( possible) arrogance as a reason your extended family is not making efforts to get together. Its one possibility at least based on my own experience with this.
My sisters, for example, left the house when I was still quite young. The oldest was out when I was only in 3rd grade Grammer school. Everything she personally experienced and knew of me ended at age 9. The clock stopped so to speak. My next eldest sister was out 2 years later. Her clock ( of me ) stopped at age 11. This phenomenon of knowing a person only until they're gone....leaves only your imagination of what they're like as time goes on. I never got the chance to bond and get to know either sister later when I was older, or as I changed and matured because we were never that close ti begin with and I only saw then at holiday time and never talked to them on a regular basis. My two sisters did between them, but they grew up together and bonded with each other. Basically, this is because we never bonded in the first place. They were note my care givers in that respect...baby sitters baby sitting their younger brother. That was their role.
And my role ( whether I liked it or not ) was permanently stamped on me as " the little kid we loved to play with ". I was like their entertainment so to speak.
So when it came to getting together later at family gatherings. I became increasingly resentful and angry that no one was bothering to check in with the now, mature, younger brother to really get to know him if that makes sense. I didn't like my "role" in the family anymore, and less, did I like having to play that part every time we got together.
So, if you were to ask me, if I enjoyed getting together with my family on occasions? Did I like having to keep playing the same part in our family dynamic? Were these fulfilling times that made me feel close to them? The answer would be no. I really didn't look forward to playing this part in the little play they had going on. And the more I tried to break free of this role or part in the play....the more they kept trying to pull me back in line...back to the part I was permanently stamped with. All that did, was make me feel, further and further away until I realized ....they have no idea who I really am?
And a huge part of that, had to do with my mother filling in the blanks for everyone else. Again, in an effort to try and hold us all together, but, her version, a very idealistic positive version, wasn't really real. It didn't include all the problems and issues we were all facing as we went through life and grew older. She was definitely stuck in the past and kind of oblivious to what was really happening in the present moment. And my sisters ( especially one ) is also stuck in the past, and only really knew me until I was 9 years old.
Saying, all of this, made me not want to get together with family as it felt like a real disrespect to be treated the way I was being treated. It wasn't real. It was like some kind of fantasy that was created to avoid seeing any real problems or issues. Like the Stepford Wives scenario...in total denial of what is real.
And of course, my mother being the gatekeeper of information being spread.. omitted the parts, that only she knew, about my behaviors related to ADHD. She told me later, she knew something was up, but kept that a secret from the rest of my entire family including me !!
I don't know if something like this is happening, but it could explain ( in part ) why someone wouldn't want to get together with family. At least, this explains the "why" for me.
So sorry J
Submitted by Swedish coast on
It must hurt to not want to see your family and have concluded they don't know you and maybe aren't interested in getting to know you.
I'm afraid ADHD members of my family may have reached that point too.
Just so helpless in front of the ADHD-non incompatibility. I don't seem to reach over to the other side. And I'm so easily frustrated and irritated.
Thank you J for your input.
Keeping silent
Submitted by Swedish coast on
J, it must be very hard to find silence and avoidance to be the safest route.
In my experience, it's been the road to disaster.