I am SO SO SO tired of hearing things come out of my husband's mouth and then 30 minutes later it's like he never said them. Below are several examples.
1) The one I've been hearing for a couple of months now is that he's going to work on the pond tomorrow or this weekend. Even didn't go into work for 4 days because he was upset with a customer. He could have worked on it and had it done well within that time as the weather was nice. It was his idea to have this pond and worked on it last year, but everything went downhill because he didn't take care of it so he had to empty it and dig it out some more. He started digging it out but that ceased after a day. He's had probably 20 nice days where he wasn't working that he could have done it. Even tells me he could finish it in a day. Yet every time I come home form work all he's done its sit and play his video game and drink beer. Tells me all he wants to do is chill out on his days off. So why do you say you'll work on the pond day after day, not to mention keep telling me you need to fix both our trucks and never do it? Then the rainy season will start soon and he'll say "Well I guess I can't work on the pond now due to the crappy weather. Thanks summer!" Like he never had the opportunity up until that point to do it and now he can't!
2) We went out 2 Wednesday's ago and didn't get home until about 11:30 that night. He goes on the computer onto Facebook and sends his daughter a message saying "Want to go to sushi?". That's it. Keep in mind that she is 3 1/2 hours away and he hasn't seen her in over 2 months. He is also somewhat drunk and probably thought this was a great thing to say. He didn't tell me he wrote her this, I just snooped on his Facebook as I often do. She responds the following morning "Sounds good. Do you want to go to the same place we did last time you came down?" He goes "Sure" and then says "I'll try and come down this weekend, but if not then definitely next weekend." He had to work that entire weekend so I don't know why he even said that. He had the following weekend off so I thought he'd go down then. Nope. Didn't go down, didn't tell me he even planned on it, and never even told her he wasn't going to come down. There hasn't been any communication since that last message about him coming down.
3) Last Thursday it was extremely hot. Too hot to cook. He got home and said "What's for dinner?" I said "Why don't we order a pizza?" He said "That sounds great!" About 20 minutes later I hop on the laptop to order it and he comes out and says "What ARE you doing?" really sarcastically. I say "I'm ordering the pizza we talked about. Is that OKAY??" He goes "I don't think pizza is going to cut it. It's too hot for that". You JUST told me pizza sounded great and now you act like I'm out of my mind for ordering it! I go "Okay what if I make some macaroni salad?" He shrugged his shoulders and said "Whatever." I said "Well what would you prefer?" He goes "Whatever you want to eat". I will eat whatever, YOU are the one who had a hissy fit about the pizza YOU previously said sounded great!"
Why on earth do they say these things? They obviously have no plans of every following through!
twilight zone - so exhausting
Submitted by dancermom on
My opinion? To answer your question:
Sort of. Kind of. Maybe? But don't HOLD them to it. That would be picky. I think sometimes they are just "having a thought" which is not the same as "thinking it through".
Well, Mapper, that's why we are here in this forum, right? Because this kind of thing happens over and over and to some of our spouses this is no big deal. They don't notice and they're not even really sure it just happened. So, then we might feel kind of crazy for even noticing. "Did that just really happen?"
The amount of face-saving and smoothing over that goes on in my husband's family is amazing to watch.
Anyway, my husband does this too. It's like when he's talking and throws something out, he just says whatever comes to mind in the moment, not as if people around him might take his statement as something to help plan their own lives or expectations. Just - his thought in the moment. Does he mean it? Did he think through what he said to make a realistic plan? Did he consider other things as he threw out that idea? Is he going to change his mind in 10 minutes or forget this conversation ever happened? How would I know?
Sigh.
Just last night my husband shows up in the bedroom doorway and starts asking about how we will jointly navigate getting several people several different places for the following night. He throws out an idea. This would be all fine (here he is thinking of the future and trying to plan!) except we already did this. We already had this conversation and we already made a plan. A different plan. So what do I do? Start from scratch and play along?
No. Too twilight zone.
I pause and look at him .. this look of "wait a minute, what?". We have years of power struggles, where I would have given him a frustrated reaction about this and he would have been defensive, and said things like "So, I'm just supposed to believe you whenever you remember it different from me?" and so right now I am working on just registering that I'm confused, but not throwing out a lot of negative about it.
Maybe someday after enough years of me not grousing about how he forgets, he will see this look and then be kind of "in reality" that he probably forgot something again? I wish for this because it would feel less like the Twilight Zone. I wish for the day he would see that confused look and then say, "Woops! What's up?" Just an acknowledgement that I am surfing this all the time.
Anyway, I said, sweetie, I'm so glad you are thinking ahead to tomorrow night. We just talked about this yesterday and here are the things you said... so I don't want to redo the conversation unless you have something different we should consider. And he said, "ok". No fight.
Maybe someday he will be even less defensive and will acknowledge my effort. But maybe never.
I am upset because one of our
Submitted by Mapper (not verified) on
I am upset because one of our cats has been missing since Saturday night. I last saw her about 8PM and then went to bed about 9:30. I thought I could hear her collar jingling in the hallway shortly after I went to bed, but she didn't come in the room like she always does and snuggle up next to me. He didn't come to bed until almost 2AM. I already had this impending sense of doom about her when I went to bed because she didn't come in the room. Then I got up in the morning and everyone else came running to the bowl, but her. Sometimes they don't come in until shortly after, but she didn't come. And she wasn't there all morning. I asked him if he saw her last night while he was up and he tells me that the last time he saw her was this morning. I said "Really? Because I haven't seen her since last night.". He goes "Oh she wasn't here this morning? I'm sure she came into the computer room a couple of times last night." He can't remember details so I have no idea if she DID go into the room with him last night or if he's just saying that! He's so focused on his stupid video game that he probably wouldn't notice if I was dancing naked in front of him. So now it's hard to pinpoint the last time anyone saw her. It could have been 8PM or it could have been 2AM!
So sorry about your kitty
Submitted by dancermom on
I hope she turns up.
Ah, the blessed video game.
Great answer's dancermom
Submitted by c ur self on
Talking our thoughts; opened ended dialog w/ self.....with no awareness of how confusing it is for the listener's....
I like the Graceful and Understanding way you handled the Bedroom Door Double Take...Many things or done with no intent to be harmful, or intrusive. If we don't recognize and be aware of executive function issues for what they are, we can respond impatiently and w/o empathy....I applaud you for this patient Victory!.....
Quiet is Good!
C
he means no harm
Submitted by dancermom on
Thanks, C.
yeah, he just lives in a fog up in the clouds and has no bad intentions. Tromps around knocking things over (and literally, too! doesn't see where he's stepping!!!!). My balance, to get out of the way, avoid predictable confrontations. But not to lie or cover up, either.
Trying to learn to say ouch better, when I need to, instead of pretending I just didn't get trampled on, again.
"Ouch," instead of "there you go again" or silence. - but I can't always be that vulnerable. So sometimes it's silence.
A low-key "ouch" from me can lead to "what's the big deal?"
(code for "there you go again" or "i'm bored with this convo already" , instead of "oops, sorry, didn't mean to" which would show some caring and awareness of me).
A big emotional melt-down from me has almost always led to tearful reconciliation and (impractical wishful thinking with no meaningful follow-through) resolutions to be noticing, etc.. That's part of how I allowed myself to be conditioned to be a big reactive mess. AAACK.
Warning:
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
Warning:
I'm going to write some things that may upset some of you. PLEASE KNOW that is NOT my intention.
In trying to UNDERSTAND the UNEXPLAINABLE things that I have been experiencing over the past 27 years, living with my husband... I have read MANY books, spent COUNTLESS HOURS RESEARCHING ADHD, have watched DOZENS of ADHD seminars on Youtube and have even researched diet and supplements to help with the 'symptoms'... and have come to a 'conclusion' that may be difficult for some to accept...
I TRULY BELIEVE that they 'CANNOT HELP IT'.
Before you get upset with me, PLEASE KNOW THAT I LIVE WITH ALL OF THIS TOO! :( It HURTS! It is FRUSTRATING AS HELL! And, at times, it reduces me to tears... :( But, if you review brain scans (SPECT scans) of ADHD people and non-ADHD people, they are VERY different...
Someone above mentioned the 'differences' in the manifestation of symptoms that many of us experience with our partners... and that is true. Of course, ALL of us are different, ADHD and non-ADHD, alike... But, I have also found some useful information from a Dr. Amen, where he 'breaks down' the 'different types' of ADHD. There are 7. (Although, often times, I also see people referring to 6 different types). I was SO GRATEFUL to find this, as my husband COULD NOT RELATE to 'some' of the ' BROAD characteristics' of ADHD. When I stumbled upon the breakdown of the 'different types' and SPECIFICALLY 'found' the type that he fell into, he could relate to EVERYTHING. More and more, my husband is moving AWAY from 'denial'... as I have done SO MUCH RESEARCH and gathered SO MUCH INFORMATION to show him... he simply cannot deny it, anymore.
Years ago, I remember seeing my precious Grandmother's brain scan... as she suffered from dementia... Her scan revealed many 'voids' in certain areas of her brain... So to, to a MUCH DIFFERENT AND LESSER DEGREE, of course, are the brain scans of those afflicted with ADHD... Of course, it was SO PAINFUL when my 'hero Grandmother' did not even know who I was... but, I could NEVER be mad at her...
DO NOT GET ME WRONG... I am BY NO MEANS STATING THAT SOME OF THESE BEHAVIORS DO NOT WARRANT ANGER AND FRUSTRATION... Some of them are simply UNACCEPTABLE... and some 'behavioral therapy' is NEEDED, to modify these patterns... But, some of the things... honestly... I think they are NOT intentionally 'malicious'... I truly believe that they just can't help it.....
As far as 'forgetting' as soon as they tell you they will do something... BELIEVE ME... I KNOW that it HURTS LIKE HELL to be FORGOTTEN, CONSTANTLY... but, I can also tell you that I KNOW my husband 'feels bad' when he forgets something that I needed or something that was important to me... I honestly BELIEVE that it is NOT 'INTENTIONAL'. My husband got a daily planner book and literally writes EVERYTHING down. This has helped. Perfectly? Of course not.
Again, PLEASE KNOW that I am NOT 'discounting' ANYTHING that any of you have written. I, personally, can relate to about 80% of it and can 'UNDERSTAND' 100% of it. But, if it has been a number of years since you have 'researched' things, PLEASE spend a little time looking into it again, as you may find some 'new' information that helps you in your particular situation.
May we all find peace...
~GMP
well put,gmp
Submitted by Zapp10 on
totally understand why and what you shared. Both sides of the story are so frustrating at times. I am not the one to see my H through this. He just can't accept this causes major communication problems among other things and apparently my behavior (reaction) through the last few years before we knew is unforgivable. To be honest I believe he is possible aspergers.There are many similarities between the 2 and often are co-morbid. The aspergers would explain a few key things that I have not mentioned here because ....I simply can't. As angry as I get about our situation I am not heartless. Trying to navigate this marriage in love and fairness to my H is taking all I have. If there IS something MORE he is not going to accept that and I have NO intention of saying anything. There is just something here that is not right..
HI GMP.....I like what you say here.....
Submitted by c ur self on
Just wanted to let you know I agree with most all of what you say here... I think many who are different by nature; didn't get what they needed from nurture to be self-aware....
Self awareness; self control, and self discipline is something we all need adhd or not....But many adhd minds have given up on all the work it takes to discipline what comes so naturally to them...So the results of that will be exactly what we all experience from them, or from anyone who takes that attitude about life....
It's just like anger....Anger has nothing to do w/ a fast mind....But if a person finds themselves dealing w/ anger, they must do the work...starting w/ awareness and then a desire to change....
If a person doesn't have something greater than themselves or another individual calling them on wrong actions, then they will just easily accept their wrong actions as who they are.....
How many times have you heard a person say....Well that's just who I am??....And they may add things like....If you don't like it, leave!....Or you knew it when you married me?? These are victim statements that are saying...I'm not willing to do the work....
This is the kind of mind that if you are married to this person and you want a peaceful life with them, you will have to do a some things right off....Accept them, set up boundaries to protect you both from placing expectations on each other that will only produce anger and frustration. And the big one for me is the acceptance of the limited ability to communicate....We speak different languages.....
C
I don't know Mapper??
Submitted by c ur self on
But, I do know, that it doesn't bode very well for my ability to "learn" and "know better", when I continue to engage a person each new day, like the results aren't going to be the same as they have been every other day, I've tried over the years...???
Soooo! who really has the problem here???
If a mind and heart is so deep in denial of their own words and actions, and feels no convictions to be responsible and accountable for themselves, except maybe only out of "Great Fear" of loosing their free meals and easy life....
Why would I continue to attempt to communicate with that kind of mind??
This is the Question I want answered???
C
C....me t
Submitted by Zapp10 on
You have stated it well......and I am near begging for an answer.
My H and I have had a couple rough days. I have NO idea what he is thinking....and I am sure not going to offer up what I AM. We had a "discussion" that he initiated that didn't take me long to see it was a "you, you,you" one. I stayed calm and listened BECAUSE in among all of it there MAY have been a point or more of validity and I wanted to take responsibility for them. He brought up a "certain" topic that several years earlier had happened where we did not agree on doing this.It involved a huge amount of money(to us).It was about needing to compromise. He went on to say that he does not believe that it is always possible to compromise. OK I personally do not believe that. Compromise is BOTH parties giving up (without pouting) for the greater good for THEM in the situation. For me COMPROMISE is a four letter word.....LOVE & LIFE for the relationship. So now I know why, after all these years, why he did what he did through the years.....as he explained in his "lecture".
I reminded him, concerning this matter of a few years ago, that we did compromise(he GOT what he wanted). I agreed to it on one condition......that no MORE money would be spent on this endeavor until it was paid for( 5 years). This meant....no equipment as it was very costly. We could NOT afford to do this to begin with but knowing no more money would be put towards this meant relief for me. He AGREED and we happily moved forward. I was really in a good place with ALL of it......And then the first piece of equipment showed up....I think I went into shock.....and the reality that he lied....blew me away. And MORE equipment followed. To say things were rough all the way around is an understatement.
Like I said....I reminded him that WE HAD compromised on that event and it was all good......until the equipment came and I realized he HAD LIED TO ME TO MY FACE. He tried to start a circular conversation and I simply interrupted and repeated.....YOU lied to me. During this WHOLE time of conversing he remained stoic, no emotion, no tenderness...nothing. He was frustrated by my sticking to the point and I could tell he was wrestling with his anger. He ended by saying flatly and sternly....I acknowledge I lied to you....THOSE were his exact words.
Will someone TELL ME......is that an apology?.....cause I sure as hell......DON"T KNOW!!!!!!!! From his side does he believe he apologized? Does anyone know? I cannot bring myself to talk to him and haven't since. Personally?........I believe my H just doesn't get it.......Dr Phil says......there are SOME people who JUST DON"T get it. While I never thought so before....I am seriously thinking THIS is the problem....forget adhd.
There is JUST too much wrong to fix here.......I'm thinking my "fixer" is broken.
and He was the one who wanted to talk?
Submitted by dancermom on
So bizarre.
The more stories I read on here, the more I think though we are NOT all the same, but there ARE patterns. I think impulsivity and impatience are huge.
There have been some financial shockers for me.. and when I would find out via a bill or a bank statement.. I can't even tell you what he was thinking. Because I would get mad and he would shut down. Was it like a little kid hoping I would just never find out? Blinders on. Just putting his head in the sand and wishful thinking? So much of this seems to boil down to "you are not the boss of me" when I am not trying to be the boss of him.
I have joked for years that I don't have a high enough security clearance and everything is on a "need to know" basis. It's not always a funny joke. You know, we signed up for this marriage thing. In the same boat together.
I do think that the power struggle element between us has been a factor. And if he thought I was unreasonable, then he could justify and rationalize telling me what would keep the peace while doing what he wanted.
But my husband's message for years was basically, "get off my back, lighten up, everything's ok" and financial reality and planning were not really his priority. He really did seem to think everything would be ok. It took a lot of adversity before he could even admit it a little that things might not be ok. His impulsive need not to feel hemmed in trumped everything. Also, I think sheer frustration with problem-solving conversations. Just say anything to get it over. Sometimes I don’t think he even REMEMBERED the things he said to get the conversation over.
Seriously, we would have the “I never said that” thing… and then we would write things down, but boyo.. the flak I’d get for suggesting we write something down.. He was mad at me for not trusting him, but not dealing with the reality that he couldn’t keep track of things.
If I hadn’t had my health crisis where all the balls dropped, I don’t know how we would have gotten out of the spiral.
My husband grew up surrounded by people who justify, rationalize, defend, deflect and smooth over a TON. I'd call it lying. I mean, you are looking right in the face of someone who said one thing and did another and to MENTION it is considered uncool. Twilight zone.
Good for you for refusing to go along with that twilight zone bs.
I wouldn't call that[...flatly and sternly....I acknowledge I lied to you] an apology, but for your guy, this might be going pretty far in the at least admitting reality direction. Your mileage may vary.
And he was the one who wanted to talk? And his point was... what? That compromising (or problem solving) is a waste of time and doesn't work? Because people just can't agree or something? So they have to lie to each other?
Ha ha dancermom,
Submitted by Zapp10 on
Oh Man!!! Your last 2 lines made me laugh!! It made me think of a new definition for compromise........lie like your ass is on fire! That will FIX everything! and NO ONE will notice.
Not bad: Zapp.....
Submitted by c ur self on
That was a good conversation and admission of guilt w/o a fight....That's good in my relationship....I want express me feelings here, because I could be misunderstood....I do that at times LOL...I will just say two things....Men make decisions, some times very difficult ones....But, with y'alls agreement, there is no way he shouldn't have shared his feelings and thoughts with you before the purchases...No matter what direction he went after the discussion....He broke your trust....
C
C, I like how...
Submitted by Zapp10 on
you said ...it was an admission of guilt w/o a fight.
I am seeing that as not an apology, therefore, it can very well happen again....but for him....it's the BEST he can do. He COULD do better BUT he is calling THAT his best. So if he is going to settle for "lower standards" I have to stay on guard to NOT do the same myself......hmmm I have to think about this some more
P.S. YES...he brought up I NEED to TRUST him period and that's what started the conversation.
It wasn't an Apology!...It was a Justification attempt.....
Submitted by c ur self on
We can never play tit for tat....Acceptance of reality!...Nobody said we have to like it.....Smile Zapp:).....
Telling people what to think of you
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Zapp, your husband said
I NEED to TRUST him period and that's what started the conversation.
...hm. That's a red flag. Not telling you what you didn't know on the spot, Zapp.
People who are not insecure about their own trustworthiness wouldn't lay down a unilateral "trust me, period" In fact people who know they're working on being trustworthy wouldn't be spending air space declaring that they were trustworthy.
I wish I understood this
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Vabeachgal,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
"Do they realize as soon as
Submitted by Saira on
"Do they realize as soon as they say they'll do something that they have no plans to ACTUALLY do it??"
In my experience as a woman who may very well have ADHD... no.
When I say things, I usually mean it. I make a vague plan of what to do. Then something pops up and then I forget it unless I wrote it down or I sacrificed most productivity in other areas to mutter/chant in my head what I've agreed to do. If I lose it for a moment, it's gone. Yes, that means, if I get a call, or someone tries to talk to me, and I haven't written down what I've agreed to do or set an alarm (if it's an appointment or an outing) it's gone. If I saw something interesting or get startled, I could very well forget what I've planned to do. If I was trying to do other things I actually have to focus on what I'm trying to remember and not stop while I do other things and knowingly sacrifice productivity/efficiency on other tasks. If I'm doing a time-killer thing like reading a book or surfing the internet, that means I have to sacrifice my enjoyment of that book or the funny video I'm watching if I want to remember. It makes everything half as enjoyable and twice as stressful. If I forget for a moment, I'm not going to remember it until something or someone reminds me of it.
If you ask why I don't write everything down, that's because at times I overestimate my ability to remember, or it's not convenient to write things down, or I can't find a piece of paper and a pen and in my search for paper and a pen, I'll probably forget there was something I wanted to remember and then when I'm trying to remember what it was I forgot, I might even forget that I was searching for a piece of paper and a pen. Then I might wonder what I'm doing in whatever room I'm in and what I was looking for. If you ask me why I don't leave a pad of paper and a bunch of pencils at my desk or carry a notebook around with me, I'd have to say because I forget I would need that until I do. Or that I'll plan to, and pause to check my email real quick in case something important came up and then before I know it, I'm browsing the internet and feeling uneasy because I feel like I was supposed to be doing something important.
I procrastinate like crazy. The things I need to do seem so overwhelming, and the things I know I shouldn't are just so alluring. If I go do things I know I shouldn't it'll make me happy for a bit. If I go do the things I need to do, I'll be stressed and struggling with them for hours.The future is a vague notion. I can't picture it, I can't imagine it. It's just something I know exists that I could never seem to grasp or even see. I can tell myself that I need to do this for my future, but it's like my heart is hearing my head speak in tongues. I can't comprehend it from the inside. I have to always force myself, which makes this a willpower thing.
I don't really get motivated easily. I don't get motivated by a future I can't imagine. So everything I do, if it isn't fun, is something I have to make myself do. I can't get motivated, if I do it doesn't last more than a minute. My willpower is finite and it feels like it runs out so much faster then everyone else's. I feel like I have to struggle to even struggle to make myself do it. I have to spend minutes to half an hour convincing myself to do something that I know I have to do, and that makes me feel even more tired, unmotivated, and stressed. Even work for me is something that makes me feel so drained. Usually by the time I've come home from work, the vast majority of my willpower has died already.
Honestly, it sucks. I can't remember things well, especially if it's positive. People hate me. People tell me I'm selfish or that I'm inconsiderate and rude. People tell me I'm not hardworking and never follow through. People say I don't have empathy or that I need to learn compassion. People tell me I often get unreasonably angry. And I don't mean to be this way or to do these things. I feel so trapped and overwhelmed. I try hard to improve, but when push comes to shove, or when the opportunity comes up, I either freeze up, or completely forget what the right course of action is. I keep trying, but I feel so tired and hopeless. I feel like I'll never be able to be a decent person in my life.
I care. I care a lot. I don't know how to show it, I forget I haven't shown it, or I forget to even show it. I don't understand human interaction once I'm in the mix. It's too confusing and overwhelming. I don't understand how people are supposed to act in these situations or how they know what to do. I want to work hard. I want to finish things. I want to succeed. I just don't know what to do or where to start or how to get there. I don't know how to remember things, I don't know how to keep forcing myself to do things. I don't know how to get myself motivated. Honestly, I feel constantly confused and lost.
I can be self-aware, but it only seems to work with hindsight. Most of the time, I don't notice I've messed up again until afterward when things are calm and I've found a nice quiet place and I'm in a reflective mood or something bad has happened. For example, an argument or being scolded, or feeling insecure, or feeling hurt. Without some sort of outside feedback or something that makes me reflect, I usually don't notice these things. That sucks too. By the time I've gotten everything sorted out and have figured out how I feel or why I felt the way I felt or why I acted the way I acted, it's usually way too late to fix.
Even when I get pointers and try to keep proper etiquette in mind, I can't judge situations well. I don't recognize facial expressions. I can't seem to control my mouth like it's just overridden my brain. I can see someone make a weird face and I can tell it's a negative expression, but I can't figure out the cause. So what do I do? I keep talking and saying things hoping I'll say the right thing and everything will get better. Usually it doesn't, but at this point, I'm so nervous and panicked it's like my brain has completely frozen in horror. So dealing with people means constant anxiety and unease and a sinking feeling I've just ruined everything again.
Talking with my ex-SO was very frustrating. I knew I was messing up all the time. I'd know and I'd forget and then I'd make things worse. Or I'd think everything was okay after a day or two had passed and it wasn't. I always felt like my attempted explanations were just hitting a wall and that he didn't want to hear it. In hindsight it makes sense because I think I often forgot to apologize out loud. I'd blame myself and cry for hours after I'd messed up and apologize in my head and regret it like crazy, but then I'd forget I hadn't told him it out loud yet whenever I tried to talk about things. Also... he could never understand it, and I could never figure out how to explain it once we were in front of each other because my mind would go blank and I'd freeze.
I may not have ADHD. I'm not sure. I'm working on getting a diagnosis, but sadly, there's only an hour or two of time for me every week where I'm getting my testing. In other words it will take anywhere from 1-3 more weeks to get a diagnosis. This is week 4, but sadly, this week had to be skipped.
I'm sorry. This attempted response got really garbled. It's really long too, and I'm not sure it was useful at all either. I can't tell which parts to cut and which parts to keep anymore. I'm really sorry if it turns out to be just a bunch of useless text that answered nothing. I think it might help to get some insight, but I can only guess.
Saira- oh gosh, I can
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Saira- oh gosh, I can imagine it has to be very frustrating to you to see all this in hindsite. You are very gracious to share your thoughts on this subject, its very enlightening for me at least. I know that we can get a bit negative on these forums (me especially as of late) - but I hope that you stick around !!!!
I think that being able to actually SEE whats going on with yourself is probably the first and hardest step to take. I commend you for the honesty both here on the post and with yourself especially. You can see clearly things you need to imrprove - and you CAN find ways to improve them with consistent steps (big or small - just keep moving!) and be able to manage the things that bother you most.
Please know that you are not alone. I am not an ADHD person - and I too feel some of the struggles you have. I might have an easier time coping with them because of my non ADHD brain wiring , but I definately do have to work on my own issues with lots of struggles you face. I am not sure if you have read Melissa's books - but it probably would be a good start as i think there is alot of good advice on interacting with others - even if you are not with an SO right now.
Keep working towards your own management and you can conqure the world! Find one thing at a time that helps you. Just one thing - dont let it all overwhelm you. One thing at a time - thats what our counselor did for us and it helped BOTH of us. :-)
Thankyou again for sharing- its brave and very kind of you! Please stay around here!!! And if there is anything I can "answer" to or provide insight to as a "non" dont hesitate to ask. Anything to return the kindness and support I have had on this forum to others! :-)
Yeah, I really wish I could
Submitted by Saira on
Yeah, I really wish I could see it when it happens. A lot of the time I get so mad at myself for not seeing it at the time. A lot of times I feel like I should have realized it when I didn't. Especially because it's usually not the first time but I never seem to make the connection to previous situations until hindsight kicks in again.
I think it's natural that other people would be negative about dealing with ADHD/ADD people. A lot of ADD/ADHD symptoms do have to do with not being able to pay attention in conversations making people feel like the other person doesn't care. Or not being able to grasp time can make things difficult and make people late for important things. Constant disorganization can be a big mental drain and if you like to keep things clean, it often means the non-ADD/non-ADHD partner has to pick up after their SO. Bad driving, impulse spending, addictions, forgetting important things or promises to your loved ones. Forgetting birthdays. All of that would be considered signs that someone just doesn't care normally and/or cause a great deal of stress/strain/anxiety. Unfortunately, it seems pretty common when it comes to undiagnosed ADHD/ADD, ADD/ADHD that isn't properly treated or when the ADHD/ADD person is in denial. Especially when it comes to adults.
ADD/ADHD people tend to look for quick rewards for that dopamine boost, and impulse spending, gambling, etc. gives ADD/ADHD people adrenaline rushes that generally make them feel really good. Addictions too can be a form of self-medication to cope with ADD/ADHD. I impulse spend too, but I manage to keep it relatively small mostly. Not that well, but I do manage to avoid emptying my bank accounts and going into debt. I always try to keep some sort of padding just in case.
I could see what was going on with myself for a long time. I just didn't know why or what to do about it for the longest time. I'd try all sorts of things but it would never seem to stick, so I spent a lot of my life feeling like a massive failure. I feel like I've finally figured out what the reason might be, and that gives me hope that change isn't actually impossible for me. (I stumbled across ADHD a few months ago, but it was only the ending of my relationship that lead to the discovery about ADHD's effect on relationships. I believe it was 50% of marriages with ADHD people end in divorce).
Not to be arguing or anything. Just wanted to kinda point out that it's not that I didn't see it, but that I would see it and forget it, see it and feel too overwhelmed by it I'd dismiss it as impossible to solve and give up, see it and then want desperately to stop it but not knowing where to start, or did see it and then tried to solve it only to fail to make a permanent change.
Yeah, from what I understand, ADHD isn't all that different from things normal people go through, the problem is that it's more exaggerated or overwhelming in an ADHD person. It's all still normal behaviors if you reduced them, but with ADHD it's like the problems are at least double the size of what normal people have to deal with. Alternatively, it's the same thing but ADHD people are either less equipped to deal with it, or find it quite a bit harder to handle it.
Also, I have not read the book before, but I might add it to my amazon shopping list or something so I don't forget it. I did add it the ADHD effect book to my amazon shopping list, but I'm thinking I may have seen it before in the library. So I might try that instead. Saving money and all that. Thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah, I'm working on this mini-habits thing, to try to get my life in order. Trying to build little habits that will become big habits that will improve my life and help me improve how I handle my life. There are plenty of things people with ADHD can do to cope without medication, though the right medication usually is a massive boost in the right direction when it works.
You're welcome, and thanks for all the encouragement. I'm just kinda the honest type, so it's nothing big. And reading some of these threads made me feel like there were times where there wasn't understanding and I could step in and maybe my experiences would help facilitate a little more understanding of what might have been going on. (Not forgiveness of course, or absolution, but just a bigger picture).
It's not garbled at all. I
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Thanks, I'm glad it wasn't
Submitted by Saira on
Thanks, I'm glad it wasn't garbled and that you found it insightful.
Yeah, for a long time, I just figured I was really forgetful, or that there was some trick to it that everyone but me had figured out. Sometimes I'd just wonder if I was really stupid or something. For me, I kinda got that other people were somehow able to remember things like that and somehow keep it in the back of their minds while doing other things, but for me it was impossible. I would have to split my focus to keep things in my memory. If I split my focus equally, the more interesting thing would quickly get all of my focus, so what would happen is that I'd have to focus the majority of my attention on what I was trying to remember rather than on what I was doing. That's where it would lessen my enjoyment of other things. I can't enjoy it as much because I have to take the majority of my focus away from whatever it is that I want to do, while constantly keeping in mind what I need to remember.
It really is, from what I understand. If it was from any normal person, it would be clear language of not caring. With an ADHD person, if they really do care about you, that's not at all what they're thinking and they may not even realize it comes across as dismissive, or may not remember that even if you tell them. Because, at least for me, if I want to remember that kind of thing, it feels like I pretty much have to not ever stop thinking about it unless I'm lucky enough that something reminds me right before I make a mistake or right after.
Of course, another part of the problem is that people with ADHD might not even be aware that this kind of thing causes those sorts of problems or feelings. A lot of people with ADHD, especially when undiagnosed, tend to be bad with self-awareness, unless they're raised in an environment that often/constantly encouraged self-awareness/self-reflection from an early age. And different people deal with ADHD issues in different ways. Some ADHD people externalize their issues, the ones who do tend to react more by lashing out/blaming it all on others. Some ADHD people, like me, internalize it and at least for me, I wind up blaming myself and beating myself up for my failures.
That's probably why, or at least partially why, I lack that defensiveness. Because I know something is wrong and I'm used to being in the wrong. I know I messed up badly, and accepted that. I can recognize it, because the way I reacted to things in the past was, perhaps initial defensiveness, followed by recognizing my responsibility for things and at the very least, knowing that it needed to be fixed.
I might actually have a higher empathy than others credit me for. I mean, it's kind of a conditional thing because when I'm really happy, panicked, or feeling attacked or defensive or upset at someone or something, I'm not usually too good at the whole empathy thing. Same as when I'm distracted too, and probably other situations I can't recall at the moment. However, when I'm calm and in a reflective mood, or when I'm reading about the pain others feel I can empathize pretty well. When it's spoken, it's a bit harder for me to empathize because I'm struggling to analyze expressions, process new information, formulate a response, trying to imagine the situation, trying to respond in a timely manner, etc. If I'm reading it, I have the time to slowly build up that emotion and focus only on the words and the meanings behind it, and I don't usually feel a need to hurry a response if a response is expected.
I'm not surprised. I find it so much harder to tell these things to people I care about. It might be an anxiety thing. I'm terrified they won't understand or that they won't want to hear it or they'll look down on me or they'll reject me or that they'll think it's just another excuse. When I care deeply about someone, I want them to think well of me, so attempted explanations usually wind up with lots of mental confusion, simulated conversations, wild thoughts, and anxiety interfering with verbal communication and a clear thought process which is already a problem for me.
The moment one thing goes in a way that doesn't match my mental simulations I did before the conversation (which, guess what? it never matches my mental simulations for more than the opening lines) my brain freezes up and I can't remember what I wanted to say. The clear idea of what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it has been disrupted, and then I'm scrambling to regather my thoughts and try to explain it and it usually comes out unclear or I've used the wrong words to say something causing a misunderstanding because what I actually meant was something else entirely.
Also, it's much easier to write these things, because I can pause and read what I've written before to try to stay on track. One less thing to juggle when trying to communicate. Actually, in this form, there are many things less to juggle. I don't have expressions to read, I don't have to remember every word I said while I'm trying to form a new sentence, I don't have to struggle with how long it takes to formulate my thoughts, and I don't have to try to judge responses/analyze body language after every few words I've said/written.
I hope I receive a diagnosis soon too. And I actually do hope it's ADHD. I know some people hope it's not because they feel like it makes them less or that they can't fix it themselves that easily, but for me if it's ADHD I have an explanation and solutions and experiences from other people dealing with similar things that I can fall back on. It also means there is medication/treatment, and that I might not have to keep blaming myself for so many things that go wrong. If it's ADHD, then everything I'm dealing with makes sense. If it's not, then everything is up in the air again and I don't know where I've gone wrong.
I could continue to post updates, but where would I do that? (Honest question). I don't mind sharing either, especially if I think it could help others (of course, this is all assuming I have ADHD). I'm also not sure what updates I'd have yet, at this time. For me I'm still working through other things while stressing over the diagnosis/possibility of not being a person dealing with ADHD. I mean, most of the other things are more related to depression and self-esteem for the time-being.
Oh, nevermind. I found the section where I would post updates.
understanding how it feels
Submitted by dancermom on
Hi Saira, I want to thank you for being so brave to say how this feels to you. I am sad for the years I spent in the dark not understanding enough (and still mostly in the dark) about how it feels to be my spouse. I really didn't understand what he was up against in how his mind functions, so it made it harder for me to empathize. I have always known he doesn't intend to hurt me.
What was harder for me to understand was how hard it was for him to "get it" even after he had been told many times about specific things. How hard it is for him to imagine the future, track anything at all, let alone translate it into actual repeatable actions that go against the grain for him. I am still struggling to "get this" at a more intuitive level. Though he was regretful and sad and really wanted things to be different whenever it was big enough and obvious enough to him, making snap resolutions for big changes has never been successful or helpful. He seriously resists any kind of little by little problem-solving approach- he is so impatient to get things over with. And it's hard for me to empathize with that, too.
If I had really known years ago, what it was like to be in my spouse's head, I would have seriously picked my battles with much higher clarity on which things were important enough to even talk about. With too many things on the table, it was less likely he could track enough to get progress.
And if I couldn't hack the rate of progress, it was on me to state what I could personally stand and stay or go. He really always has been doing all that he personally can cope to do. If I needed change from him, I had to have an approach that would productively work to add supports into his life. My approach in the first 15 years of our relationship (straightforward problem solving alternating with emotional meltdowns) only sent him farther into hiding and further convinced that I was unreasonably expecting too much...
Meanwhile, I did so way too much and felt like the unappreciated slave of the family. And that's on me for being a doormat. Not on my spouse for being unable to handle the complexity of modern parenthood/life/marriage all at the same time and an increasingly resentful spouse.
He has spent so many years covering up, rationalizing, trying to defend, deflect or get out of trouble..saying other people are unreasonable or lying to him, rather than seeing that he is missing things and not tracking. But the more I pushed on him the more he defended rather being able to see how our family was impacted when things are not done. Instead of saying "I can't" or "I forgot" he would say, "what's the big deal?" It has taken me a long time to hear "what's the big deal?" or "that's stupid" as "I can't" or "I forgot." We still don't have the collaboration or trust for better supports to be in place, but there has been an uptick in admissions and apologies lately for dropped balls.
Thank you for your bravery
I don't really feel like I
Submitted by Saira on
I don't really feel like I was being brave. More like, I don't know, like maybe there was room for a different perspective. I admit I kind of just expected to get shot down and told that I didn't understand what people like me put their partners through and I'd understand that. It wouldn't be completely wrong, but not completely right either. I do think I understand part of it. Maybe not full empathy, but I can grasp that it's extremely painful and frustrating from an objective standpoint at the very least and that there really is a problem.
I mean, everyone's experience with ADHD is different. Your husband's might be different from mine too. I'm not even sure what type of ADHD I'd be dealing with if I got diagnosed. Knowing that there wasn't any intention to hurt doesn't exactly take away the pain. In some ways, it can make it worse. Oddly enough, I know how that one is. My ex-SO sometimes did things that hurt me unintentionally, he was a good guy, with a great heart and extremely considerate, but there were things that he'd do or say that would make me feel hurt, discouraged, or ashamed of myself.
Sometimes he'd do that and he'd accidentally hit a nerve or I'd be dealing with so much stress/anxiety from something else and exhaustion that I'd just blow up in a rage. What wouldn't help was my mind trying to constantly calm myself down by telling me that he wasn't wrong or that I shouldn't be angry because he didn't mean to hurt me. I would be frustrated, because a part of me would feel like it was now two against one. My ex-SO and my head against my heart. Naturally my heart would feel like my mind was a dirty, double-crossing traitor. :P
Huh, oddly enough, that could be an explanation for the feelings of betrayal I would get at those times too. Maybe not. I always felt like the closest one to me in the world was my ex-SO so it might be the feeling that the closest person to me had just stabbed me. Et tu, Brute? I wouldn't be surprised if everyone here had to deal with that with an ADHD partner, so, sorry about that.
I mean, it's kind of hard to understand these kind of things. It's a completely different thought process that doesn't really make sense at times. It's not logical in the normal sense, it doesn't put the long-term into consideration, and it does so many stupid stupid things. To be honest, it was hard for me to grasp too and I had to live with it. I couldn't figure out why things weren't working for me, I couldn't figure out why I couldn't read expressions or why I couldn't seem to make myself pay attention when I needed to.
It's kind of hard to get. I used to ask myself all the time why I couldn't just make my life better. Why I couldn't just do these things for my future. I didn't understand it. It was so illogical. Suffer a little now to have great pay offs in the future. It's great, so why can't I do it? Just apply myself for a bit. It's not that hard, so why do I feel like someone's asked me to go bungee jumping with an old bungee cord? It just doesn't make sense logically to me either, but that's kind of how things would go.
I'd tell myself about how it'd be great and my future would be great and if I just put in some more effort now it'd spare me pain later. Then my stupid heart would be like, that's great, but the future is forever away, this will make me happy now, so let's do this now and that later! And brain would go... well... okay, but only do this fun thing for 15 minutes, and then we have to go do that other thing.
All of a sudden I'd realize that it'd been anywhere from 2-4 hours, and then get frustrated. Then heart would be like, it can't be helped, let's do it tomorrow, it's too late to do that now, a little more fun won't hurt. And that's how things go until forever away becomes tomorrow/today and only then does it seem to hit me that I have to get things done immediately. It's inefficient, and stressful, and who would want to do things that way? It just doesn't make sense.
When brain is being smarter, it starts arguing with my heart saying "No! You said we'd do it after 15 minutes last time, and guess what happened, we didn't get it done!" and then it's this big argument in my head as my logical brain is trying to explain that it has to be done now or it never will be and my heart is going, "What does an extra 5-15 minutes hurt? It'll make me more productive!" and brain will of course respond with "Yeah, it'd make you more productive if it was only 5-15 minutes, but it's never only 5-15 minutes with you!" followed by "This time it'll be different!" "You're lying and you know you are!" "I'm not! I'm serious this time!" "You said that last time too!"
It's kinda hilarious how these conversations in my head seem to play out in reality too. Kinda sad too.
Shoot, it was not my intention to make this so long, but I'll leave it in because I find it funny and maybe others will too. Okay, I'll try to make things shorter and on topic after this. (Procrastination!)
Okay, yeah, it's hard to empathize with these things, and yes, it's a struggle to get things done. Little by little approaches feel like they get nowhere, even though it's not true. With ADHD there's a lot of grand ideas in my head about how I'll fix everything fast and then I'll be amazing and people will love me and while that motivation is there, it doesn't feel impossible. The problem is, that this kind of massive motivation is hard to keep up and even harder to maintain when you're dealing with ADHD. And it really doesn't make sense.
For me, in my experiences it would be partially because I'm terrified that if I don't change ASAP, while I have this motivation, I never will. It would also be because the feeling of urgency is so strong and all the stress and guilt I'm dealing with for having messed up again that I just want to make it go away immediately and/or I'm afraid that the stress and guilt will go away if I don't do something soon and I'll be okay with doing things that hurt people again because I forgot about it again.
That's probably true. I mean, talking about it isn't a bad thing, but picking which ones to work on and prioritizing them would help. I'd actually recommend making lists and stuff, sit there, talk about it, take notes/record it if necessary, agree about it, write it down and say that it's to make it more official if you have to. Or print out the list in big bold type and post some copies around the house or something. When he does something right, praise him or give him a hug or some sort of reward like that. It'll help him associate doing good things for you with rewards/happy feelings making it easier to remember. It's like raising a dog! I should not be saying that. Sorry.
Unfortunately, it's true that direct, attention-grabbing communication works better. At least for me. Subtlety leaves uncertainty, and uncertainty means it must not be that urgent or that I'm imagining things. I don't trust my perception often. It's wrong so often that I don't trust it until things are glaringly obvious. I'd actually advise you to look into mini-habits (official site | adhdhomestead blog post) /non-zero days. Non-zero days may be more suited to your husband though. And uh.. warning, explicit language for the non-zero day thing?
Yeah, my ex-SO felt that way too, and I felt like I was taking advantage of him and I felt guilty about it but I didn't know how to fix things and all the advice I got on it from others was that he'd tell me if it bothered him, so if he hadn't said anything things must not be as bad as I felt it was. (Man they were so wrong). I actually do think that might have been kinda on both of you, not just you or anything. You did let him walk over you, and you did probably contribute to things by letting him walk over you, but in the end, he did walk over you, and he does need to take at least some responsibility for that.
At least, that's how I feel when it comes to me, because it was clear in hindsight, and I'd been crying about it and worrying about in secret on my own and didn't communicate clearly either. For me and my ex-SO, he let me walk over him, and I let myself walk over him and then continued to do so just because he didn't complain so maybe everything was okay or he actually didn't mind it. It hurt me too, because I despised myself for it, but ADHD or not, I feel like I should have put more effort into figuring out how to stop rather than giving up and crying about how hopeless it was.
Well, that's good! It's an improvement, right? It does sort of match my experiences, though I started internalizing things way earlier. I usually start out with defensiveness. The way I know I'm calming down is that my thoughts go from defensiveness and how it hurts and it's unfair to self-blame. I mean, I probably do need to work on that too, the self-blame part goes further than it probably should. There is still that defensiveness, though. I'm better at dealing with that online.
When it came to my ex-SO it usually was stuttering phrases or short sentences, repeating the same argument because I couldn't figure out how to express how I feel, and then getting so frustrated because he'd always win because he was right when it came to the arguments I tried to use and I couldn't seem to articulate how I felt and why I felt the way I did and why he shouldn't say some things.
Sadly enough, even trying to figure out how to express how I felt would foil me. It would lead me down the path of why I felt what I felt when I was trying to figure out what I felt. Sure I wanted to know why, because why could help come up with a solution, but trying to figure out why I felt the way I felt was interfering with my ability to figure out what I was feeling besides the vague words "hurt" and "angry" or "frustrated."
While I'm trying to dig deeper in the what and the why to figure out the words, time is running out and even when I grasp the what or the why, finding the words makes things harder and can even make me forget the what and the why. So then I'm chasing the what and the why again while trying to chase the right words.
Sometimes it's like it's a very windy day and I've just dropped a giant stack of paper filled with all the thoughts I'm having and I need only some of them right now. Even if I manage to grab all the papers, I have to organize them back into the right order and find the ones I need and organize those into something that makes sense while trying to keep the wind from blowing them all away again.
Story time!
For example, I told him about wanting to try to lose 30 pounds in the next year and he seemed iffy about it. And I said I probably wouldn't start today because I was tired. He then said that I "will always make excuses" in the first hour I got to spend with him one on one after being sick on an exhausting trip. The amount of sleep I had gotten by that point was less than 2 hours total of fitful dozing caught in the last 36 hours at that point.
(I'd been badly sick. Sick enough I'd wake up from my own coughing. I was constantly dealing with a sore throat. During the trip I had to do a lot of hiking and kayaking and canoeing and dealing with colder weather than I was used to. It's bad for me because I get cold easily, and for me, walking 2 miles on side walk was tiring enough so hiking 2 miles up a mountain and then 2 miles back down was kind of a strain. It was also that time of month.
I was also anxious because a a week or two before my vacation, my boss had a break down at work and she wanted to walk out and quit. I was terrified I'd have to take over for her and start going to all those one on one meetings with the vice president of our team. I was terrified because I didn't feel like I knew enough to take over her job and if she left, everyone would realize that I wasn't the competent person they thought I was and that my promotion was undeserved and then everyone would look down on me and I might even get fired.)
During those last 36 hours, I spent 6 hours touring a city without being able to take pictures because my camera died. I spent 9 hours in an airport. 1 hour on a flight where I dozed a little. Got off and spent another hour or two in an airport. Then got on a plane for 2 more hours and dozed a little on the plane. I forgot my camera on the plane, panicked like crazy over it because it wasn't cheap. Paced like crazy, worried like crazy, then headed back to the townhouse I shared with my ex-SO and our roommates so I could at least unpack my luggage before work.
I get there after an hour and find him sleeping and saying he was so tired he wanted to skip work, and I made him get up and go to work because they don't have a replacement for him there and he's teaching children whose parents paid quite a bit for these summer classes. Then I immediately went to work and worked a full day. Then I went straight back home and struggled to stay awake because I wanted to wait for him to come home so we could cuddle until I fell asleep. An hour later I found out we were eating out instead with everyone. So I went out to go eat with him and I missed him so much I wouldn't let him go for the next 15 minutes.
Since I wanted to be with him, I went home with him in his car, and that's when we had that discussion. He wasn't wrong, and experience tells me that he was probably right, but that was the last thing I wanted to hear after dealing with that little sleep, that much stress, and having finally seen him after 11 days.
Needless to say, I was very hurt when he said I "will always make excuses" after I'd just told him that I was too tired to do it right now, because I felt like he was saying my genuine exhaustion was just another excuse. I tried to argue that he shouldn't say that, and I really am tired right now, and then he used my past failures to stick to an exercise regimen as proof and I shut up because it was true and I couldn't accept "but I'm really tired, your words make me feel like you don't believe I'm actually tired. It's not just another excuse. I missed you so much. I've been so stressed. We haven't seen each other for so long. I wanted to be able to rest and relax after everything. Why did you have to say this to me right now? You're discouraging me a lot right now." as a valid argument for why he shouldn't have said that.
Admittedly, at this point I was so flustered and taken aback that I couldn't even hold those individual sentences in my head for more than moments and they weren't put together like the above. So it was more like I kept dismissing those thoughts one by one as they popped up in random order, because I felt like they weren't valid arguments for our situation. I was trying to address the cause, which was the idea that I would make excuses and not manage to lose that weight. So for me, with the way my brain was trying to organize things, addressing the reasons I felt upset didn't seem like valid arguments. I guess you could say I was trying to solve/argue over the wrong problem without even realizing it.
Then of course, I made things worse because I refused to talk to him even as he went "What? It's true!" and then changed into exercise clothes as soon as I got home because now I was so angry that if I didn't take a long walk right now, I was going to get very, very mean. A roommate cheerfully asked me if I was going to go walk the nature trail, and I was scared she'd try to accompany me so I managed to get out a terse, "Don't talk to me right now" because it was the only thing I felt like I could get out of my mouth without blowing up and ranting and breaking down into tears in front of everyone.
Naturally, she thought I was angry at her, and I ruined everyone's day, because I'd deliberately chosen to walk in a direction they would never expect so I could get some alone time to deal with my frustrations. I spent 4 hours walking as fast as possible because I was so angry and so hurt I was raging mad and crying. I only returned when I did because it was dark out and I knew people would be worried even though I was still angry and hurt. They had indeed ended up searching for me, and their evening was ruined because of me and my bad mood.
My ex-SO was also pretty upset/angry with me and had probably been pretty worried. I also didn't explain what happened to my roommates but did apologize for being brusque with my roommate and I think I tried to explain that I wasn't angry with her and that I had done what I did because I was afraid that if I said anything more, I might lash out at her in anger. I tried to stay up late to wait for my ex-SO so we could talk things out, but now he was so stressed that he was out all night, and I didn't sleep till 2am and still had to get up and go to work 5 hours from then.
I think I apologized to my ex-SO and I know I said it was all my fault and that I shouldn't have done that. I always, or maybe just often, do that. I seem to always say that I was in the wrong for being angry, and that it was my fault and that I know he didn't mean to hurt me. Then I try to explain it away as external factors like all the stress and the exhaustion and being sick and the anxiety, etc.
Ex-roommates and ex-SO held that event against me. What can I do? It certainly wasn't a well-planned or well-thought out event. I'll bet it contributed quite a bit to the final destruction of my relationship with my ex-SO.
Oh, and it's not that I blame them for that. I understand that I didn't communicate what was wrong and based on all the information they got at the time, I was definitely in the wrong and inconsiderate to everyone else. Even with the information of background, I was still in the wrong and it was inconsiderate to everyone else to make them worry and disappear so long without my cell phone, so I guess it changes nothing.
Thanks for reading my previous post. And this one too if you did. It's really long. Also filled with a lot of rambling.
Dont worry about writing long posts
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
J, a man with ADHD who posts regularly, often writes long posts. I dont have ADHD, and I often do. Any of us could very well show up with something to get off our chest that day, or something to try to name or think about, and write long. :) Rants are my favorite. The paragraphs are loooonnnnnnggg. Many of us, perhaps like you, dont have outlets off line to let it all out, or if there's some sadness to grieve it out
Anyway, we write to get it out and look at it. So dont worry ow long your posts are. How people read them is their business of course. Your last one I'm going to read topic by topic.
What you're writing about in your posts sometimes gives me insight about this or that with my husband with ADHD. You know, an ADhd Person doesnt have a sign on him or her saying, "Alert!!! My focus, lability and memory sometimes dont work like the majority of people. Be on the lookout for me acting sometimes like you, sometimes not!!!" So from the outside, it's hard to guess what's needed when, with someone like my husband. He doesnt have a Mood Ring, that I can see turn from green to purple, when something ADHD is going on in there.
Thanks for saying that you are helped by extra obvious social cues. It took me a long time to figure that one out. He's never asked me for them or thanked me for them by the way, so it was trial and error whether he would get offended at me being too explicit or need me to be more explicit. Remember I cant see inside his head. But you finally confirmed, tha he does need a bigger social signal than I start d off giving him.
Anyway, write on, and glad you're here. J, who you'll soon encounter on the site has written whole books, hahaha. And I have written things as long as the Yellow Pages
: )
Who Me? Did I Do Something Wrong? LOL
Submitted by kellyj on
Now, I think she already encountered me along with that "experience"......"J....a Man with ADHD." I kind of like that? Sound's like " Palladan...Have Gun, Will Travel." LOL I can live with that! :)
J
All right, Clint...
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
....I looked for a video clip of a lone samurai striding into town, to put things right.
But all I found on Youtube was Japanese animations.
I like that you put that cap on it Man... Who Write Long....
Best for the weekend, there.
Saira.......'In Anticipation OF..........."
Submitted by kellyj on
Hi Saira,
I first wanted to say...that reading through everything you shared was very refreshing to hear? Honestly. It was very forth coming of you to open up and share everything you said and for me.... Further, I am you here...and you are me. I understand, and I can empathize with you deeply, I've been where you are my entire life and I know what that feels like. Nothing you had to say was garbled for me and I didn't need to interpret your feelings. What I've done in your place was different from you but I'm a man and I've got my own particular brand of behaviors that I do in your place which is different than yours. What I do is different: how I do it is different, how I see things are different and what I do with it is different...but my feelings are the same as you expressed here and all the reasons why given the same set of hypothetical circumstances if that were me doing it. (since this was you in your case...and everything that goes with it) including the conclusions I might have drawn in the past...and all those speculations and assumptions that brought me to my own conclusions. This is me...putting myself in your shoes and knowing how I felt in the past about this in comparison to the way I see things now? But also saying....my feelings are not all that much different and that's really what struck me the most?
And before I say anything more about my own personal feelings and opinions on what you said.....I have to consider along with this...that my wife (now...since I've been married before ) is suspected of having ADHD along with her own brand of thinking and the ways she goes about things that really flavor what I see here with you in making a similar comparison to you and what you said here. These differences that I'm sighting are both fascinating and very telling to me.
When you were saying how much you hurt and you cry every time you reach this place and how just writing things down and journaling only with you reading it without a witness or someone there to hear what you say is so much me I can't even begin to tell you HOW MUCH? I spend so much time talking to myself in my own head....what's the point in writing it down (as my thoughts would say) if I'm the only one who hears it? I hear it everyday so why write it down only to myself so I can just read myself think? LOL It's a Catch 22 because I know it makes me feel better to write it down. And rereading it later....has everything to do with why it's so good to do. That hindsight....with all the delays in my ability to process things through is also why it's so useful. I really didn't now that...until I came here and just started reaching out and saying what I feel to anyone who might be interested? Rambling...is what I do? LOL Actually...what I've found is I just take the long way around to get there and this is also a big part of the way I've found I work....in a general sense with everything. That in itself...is also very telling to me if no one else...and it's a benefit to me...to be able to see myself do this and understand....why I do it? The why...is less important to other people....yet they have their own onions about this as well. What is more important to them....is that I do it. Plain and simple. This is where the judgments come from...and within those judgments...comes my own shame and judging myself and that in particular...is what I see happening here with you? There is really no getting around this part and there is no denying that I do this the same as you? All those voices in there screaming at me sometimes...are not my voices....but the ones that are in there that others have put there? What I do with this....is what is most important? Doing is the action that takes place....once you've come to your own conclusions? But again....as I read through this....I thought about "who's judgments" are these? Mine....or other peoples? And If I've come to my own conclusions about myself....there why are those other peoples judgments in there in the first place? I have to consider this....any time I'm judging myself? And what about all those assumptions and acting on assumption? If those other peoples judgments and conclusions about me weren't in there....would I act or behave the same way and would my actions be different? You can't take other peoples judgments or you out of there along with all those voices telling you these things....but you can separate you own judgments of yourself.....and take those out of your own judgment and conclusions you have of yourself....despite what those voices are in there telling you what to do? This has everything to do with what you will anticipate in the future and what you do about that?
Anticipation "OF"...is what you might expect and where expectations come from? As I see it....there are two types of expectations? What you expect from others...and what you expect others to do or feel about you and that right there...is a real problem in itself? If I have expectations of others that they treat me in a specific way....I'll be disappointed when they don't...or even hurt if they disappoint me? I may get angry with them for hurting me...or I may just go off and lick my wounds? This ...within it...and by itself...is a problem only for me when I do this? On the flip side of this....if I disappoint myself and not do what I expect of myself.....that just throws salt in the wound and makes me shut down and withdraw many times. Either way....this relationship between expectations, judgment, anger, and hurt...is what will drive my actions if I'm not careful and not aware enough of this in myself...to go against my intuition or instincts...and go a different direction? If I'm driven by shame....my actions with follow. If I'm driven by success and looking for ways to move towards success instead of failure....I need to stop myself...before I get a chance to go away from that direction...and go full bore in the same one I have in my past? The wrong way in other words....but without seeing this as a "black and white"....success or fail...type scenario? What I know of myself...and what I know what I'm capable of.....along with what I know I'm likely to do....is the anser to the the question that was posed in the title of this thread?
If I were to answer this question for myself ....now at this time.....I would say YES!.....instead of NO! But again...the answer is not black and white...and black and white thinking will not solve this dilemma? There is something in between.....good ...bad....success ...and failure...that defies judgment of any kind and that's how I'm approaching this as far as how I see myself and who I am as a person. I don't need to judge myself so harshly.....even if others do? That only leads to failure on my end...so I've had to see this a different way to work around it? There is no getting past this...unless you go around? For me....in that general way....it's kind of the long way around! LOL Nothing wrong with that...as long as you get there right? LOL
First off....I also wanted to 'thank you for giving me some really valuable insight into my wife because I know that so often ....I see her do what you did (exactly) and yet...she never says anything more? She gives me nothing to work from and I'm in the dark sometimes as to why she does what she does...and she will refuse to......"talk about it"...the same as you did in your story? "I don't want to talk about!!!!"...then reacts really hostilely towards me and only gets angrier if I'm upset or want and explanation to here behavior? Anything from me on my end during one of these moments...is met with such resistance and so much anger on her end....this has conditioned me to keep my mouth shut...and not say anything? This is exactly what I anticipate from her and it has formed my own conclusions to this since....she will not "talk about it"...and I have NO IDEA....."what?"...."why?".......or "how"....to do anything in the future...in order to prevent any fights we have or find any resolution to this problem? That's my problem that comes from her problem ....in "not wanting to talk about it?"....because she just completely shuts down...and then comes back later....to try and explain? Splain'in....as in...."YOU GOT some Splain'in to do Lucy"....but that just comes in the form of rationalizations and mostly sounds like excuses as I here it from her? She will start out saying....."Can "WE" Talk"...but mostly....I here her talking...and I'm just listening? And if I try and say anything to refute or counter what she say's......well that goes over like a lead balloon since she's the one talking....and I'm just there to listen. There is NO "WE" here in those moments...it's only her "splain'in"....and me listening? At the end of one these sessions.....I feel unheard...and she feels better if I say nothing at all and just listen and then go....."Okay?" That's what she wants....but that's not what she say's. What she says is....can "we" talk....but me talking or saying anything...is not what she wants to hear? In light of what I was saying about judgment and shame.....I get the impression during these moments....that it's all about her shame and her judgment of herself...and that I'm just there to sit and listen while she verbally processing this all out loud and then when she's done....wants me to say......"well...why didn't you say so....that's perfectly fine and we're all good."
Actually....."we" are not...."all good"....at the end of this for me? What would have been "all good"...if she had turned in the moment right after she shut me down and said...."I don't want to talk about it!!!!"...and instead of just walking away and leaving me there feeling bad and without any means to understand what just happened?......Now.....I'm left holding the bag....and worrying and wondering what I did...to create this in her? Now I'm judging myself...and feeling really bad about myself and thinking I must have done something to cause this...where only a few moments ago....I was feeling just fine and was hunky dory.....until she walked into the room and created this scenario.... and me going WTF just happened? And what did I do wrong?
So you see....you're not the only one who judges themselves harshly? You may think others are the only ones who may be looking at you critically....but from your reactions and the pattern you have of just "locking up" and becoming so overwhelmed with all the things that went wrong before you walked into the room (that no one else knows? ) you just brought that into the room with you (THAT ENERGY)...with a bunch of people who just woke up and are half asleep and haven't even got a single "thought"...in their head yet? The last thing...they're thinking about is you.....and the first and only thing they're probably thinking is......"where' my coffee?"....and that's about it? LOL I have to say that both....I understand you...and I understand everyone else involved? LOL
In the essence of your story.....you were overwhelmed before you even opened the door...and everyone is else....well?.....right where they are....and you just walked in and now what? Turkey's Butt? LOL They've got no idea: the context you are speaking from, where you are mentally, where you are physically, where you are in terms of what "state of mind" you are in? And they certainly could not even "guess" this....unless you sat down and told them ahead of time...to get them up to speed with you? You were so far ahead of them ( and out of context to them and what they were doing with all do respect to everyone else's "context"...that.....would required you to slow down, back up and have THAT conversation "FIRST!!"....before you did anything else?
You said this....."
I think I apologized to my ex-SO and I know I said it was all my fault and that I shouldn't have done that. I always, or maybe just often, do that. I seem to always say that I was in the wrong for being angry, and that it was my fault and that I know he didn't mean to hurt me. Then I try to explain it away as external factors like all the stress and the exhaustion and being sick and the anxiety, etc.
Ex-roommates and ex-SO held that event against me. What can I do? It certainly wasn't a well-planned or well-thought out event. I'll bet it contributed quite a bit to the final destruction of my relationship with my ex-SO.
I can tell you from experience. You did not apologize. What you did...was "splain" and took responsibility and put fault on to yourself (as in the judgment again )...but you didn't acknowledge them and what you did in terms of how that made them feel? In the story you told.....all they knew was what they knew in that moment...and they're thinking in terms of them was...." huh....I just woke up.....where's my coffee!!!" lol And then you got terse and left them there feeling bad? And they felt bad...and wondered what they did wrong or were just annoyed at you for doing that? And they had to live with that from that moment on because those feelings they had never got resolved? So when you "thoght" you apologized.....you left out the most important part in an apology....."I'm sorry I did that and made you feel bad. It must have made you feel bad to have someone do that with you? I can imagine...me coming in and just Bulldozering my way into this perfectly calm serene situation, with me being up all night in my ordeal with traveling and all...must have made you feel like I was just making everything about me and you guys were just left to pick up the pieces...with me doing this "hit and run" thing I did? BAM....like a bomb just went off out of no where? I can imagine...this might have made you feel pretty dismissed in all of this...and I sorry for doing that to you?"
Now that...would have been an apology right there. You acknowledged them....and admitted that you did something...that hurt them and made them uncomfortable? Even if all of that wasn't exactly correct....you made an effort to include that you were not thinking of them and you were too busy thinking of yourself and you know that had a negative effect on them? You admitted your "guilt".....not your "fault"..... That's the difference if this is what you might have said instead....in a true apology?
So the question is.....why did you do this? I think the answer in exactly what you said here......."Admittedly, at this point I was so flustered and taken aback that I couldn't even hold those individual sentences in my head for more than moments and they weren't put together like the above. So it was more like I kept dismissing those thoughts one by one as they popped up in random order, because I felt like they weren't valid arguments for our situation. I was trying to address the cause, which was the idea that I would make excuses and not manage to lose that weight. So for me, with the way my brain was trying to organize things, addressing the reasons I felt upset didn't seem like valid arguments. I guess you could say I was trying to solve/argue over the wrong problem without even realizing it."
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO.....RRRIPP CITY!!!! 3 POINTER......SWISH and SCORE!!!! lol To put it...oh so not mildy? That's the critical moment of no return right there? You made so many fatel or critical errors in thinking, judgements and conclusions...so fast and without stopping...slowing down....and making sure that your ex-SO or roommates...and probably many other people in your lifetime under the exact same circumstances....that you initial reactions..and things that come out of your mouth in those moments...(along with lashing out in anger....BIG TIME!! )....is what you need to try and stop. It's this lashing out in anger over what you have not come to any real thoughtful conclusions which included ALL THOSE THINGS that you dismissed, that you didn't have organized in your head, those sentences that you didn't have ready to say but should have said....and everything else that goes with it...is what you need to apologize for. And I know this...because I do this too. The only thing I know about myself enough to know...is that I do this but I don't mean to?
The answer to the question for me is "YES".....I can't speak for "they"...I only know myself well enough...to know this without hesitation? I also know myself well enough...to be aware that I do this because I know this is all about having ADHD and how "our" brains work. I know this without a second guessing myself...so in the moment I do these things....I try and catch myself red handed...and apologize "right then" and then move on because mostly....poeple will recognize your failure...and they will also recognize that you apologized and it's just not that big a deal for them? What is a BIG DEAL...for them....is the hurt they feel when you do this. That's all they really care about?
What really struck me in all of this...was what Dancermom said here in this thread.......
"Trying to learn to say ouch better, when I need to, instead of pretending I just didn't get trampled on, again.
"Ouch," instead of "there you go again" or silence. - but I can't always be that vulnerable. So sometimes it's silence.
A low-key "ouch" from me can lead to "what's the big deal?"
(code for "there you go again" or "i'm bored with this convo already" , instead of "oops, sorry, didn't mean to" which would show some caring and awareness of me).
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO....RRRRIP CITY....3 POINTS....SWISH and SCORE!!!!
Why would she need to say "ouch"? Think about it....it's exactly what I said?
And why would I say that saying...."oops"....and then not making a big deal about it and moving on? Acknowledgement and admission of guilt...not fault....right then in the moment. In the moment when if needs to be said....not later some time down the road after it's already too late? All the "splain'in" in the word...cannot take back the pain and having to live with this....where a simple admission of guilt and then even an acknowledgment of them and what they just experienced....will usually end up with forgiveness almost every time from other people....instead of......"you always make excuses". And I telling you this...for your own good as well as everyone else but mostly...for your own good since it will serve you always to do this and not second guess all the reasons and the explanations as to "why". "Just do it"....that's all you need to know?
There you go. Don't beat yourself up.....do something about it?
KNOW THY SELF. AND TO THINE OWN SELF, BE TRUE Shakespeare....was a genius, that much is clear:)
J
internal arguments
Submitted by dancermom on
Thinking through conversations in my head! I have actually done so much of that. I chalk that up to interpersonal anxiety - and then being rattled when people take me a direction I didn't anticipate and don't know what to say, now... Yes. I have my own version of racing thoughts like that.
For years I didn't have a label for my internal anxious behavior - just thought everyone was having the same experience as me. How would I know different? We can't see into each others heads.
Something I really value about my distracted spouse is that despite everything else, from the very beginning he has radiated a strong love beam toward me that allowed some of my foundational anxiety to ease. In fact, more in the beginning of our relationship, it was this sense of safety, that he was my rock, that was most compelling to me. As an anxious person, I am very grateful for my rock.
You're right, knowing that none of it is intentional does not always help, and sometimes hurts. Over and over, I've tried to explain how something feels to me, thinking that me being important to him, this would help him remember stuff that goes against the grain for him. Because he cares about me and wants to get to know me better. Then he still goes with the grain and "forgets" all that talk and so it hurts even more. "I didn't realize that would hurt you." and I say back, "but I want you to realize, I want you to know me well enough that we don't start from scratch so many times. How is it that after hearing about this one thing over and over you still don't realize?" And he doesn't know the answer, he says, "I just don't." Now I believe him. And it's up to me to make my own decisions accepting this reality - that every new counter-intuitive against the grain thing he would need to learn and change is VERY UPHILL and the pace will always be very slow.
The reason I feel you are brave is that there is a lot of very frustrated, angry overwhelmed venting going on here in this forum. And I have done some, too. You can find elsewhere my frustrations about various things my husband does or doesn't do. And each and every one of them is something I have mentioned to him in the past, but the totality of it is so overwhelming to him (I think) that he has managed to forget and screen it all out and literally doesn't even know what things he does bother me. So, I would think that all this venting and anger might be very hard to face here in this forum. Yet, for us living in what I call the "twilight zone" it is very important to be able to speak the truth and be grounded in reality. My husband literally cannot stand to hear all this stuff, but I still have a need to be heard and understood and not feel so crazy.
I think, however, just as we spouses complain about the fog of denial in our distracted partners, and feel not seen and understood - we don't all in general see and understand our partners very well. If we are not in their heads, how would we know? Your description of the tracking difficulties and the overwhelm/avoidance on tasks is very vivid. I have read other descriptions like that but it's very hard to get my husband to talk about what's going on in his head. Partly, bec ause I ask the wrong question. I'll say, "can you reconstruct for me what you were thinking when you said/did that?" and he'll say, "I wasn't thinking anything" or "I don't know" - I get this feeling it's a big blur!!!! still trying to understand but that's the main sense I get. Big Blur.
J is a big sweetie pie who is obviously trying very hard to understand himself and others - and is SO UNLIKE my husband it is amazing to me. My husband would NEVER use that many words to describe an inner state. So, we are all different. My husband and I were snuggling this morning after he had come back to bed and after we were quiet for a few minutes, I was thinking about how nice it is to hold him, but how lonely it is that I don't bother saying out loud anything I am thinking because it doesn't work out very well, usually. Then I asked him what he was thinking, if was willing to tell me what he was thinking while we had been quietly lying there for a few minutes. He said, "well, I'm thinking about taking that tent in to get new grommets and I was debating about whether your breasts are better than a pillow. But I wasn't intentionally not saying anything, it just didn't occcur to me to say anything." So there you have it!
actually the most illustrative I ever got of an example from my husband about how we misfire in our quiet thoughts and our interpretations is a Dave Barry sketch about how a woman is talking to a man about their relationship and wondering since they've been dating for a year if they are ready to take it another level. The man is silent. The silence goes on. The woman is silent. She's freaking out that she has scared the man by mentioning commitment and now she's ruined everything and finally she blurts out something like that. Meanwhile, he's been thinking, "oh shit, a year? When's the last time I got the oil changed? Did I lose track of time so badly that I forgot to change my oil for a year? Let's see, it was September, and then..... " My husband loves this sketch. He says, "yup. that's me. thinking about changing the oil."
Oh - and my husband constantly thinks he has already said something to me just because he thought it in his head. Just this am he came charging into the bedroom asking me a bunch of questions about something I had no idea what he was talking about. I said, "wait, I don't get it, Weren't we going to have brunch with so and so?" and he said, "oh, right. You don't know. They called and cancelled and guess I should have started with that. Somehow I forgot you didn't already know."
WOOHOOO happy dance - he actually figured out what was going on and even used the "I forgot" phrase!!!!!!! Makes life so much less twilight zone.
Thank You Dancermom......That was Kind for Sure!
Submitted by kellyj on
But I wasn't always the way I am now and I really have to remember this when I confront these things with my wife? I'm no different than anyone else on the receiving end and you'd think.....you'd think? (ah hem )...I'd be the most understanding about this as anyone if not more? I guess it might be easier to digest is all and get over it as soon I remember myself and all the things I have done along these lines in the past?
But being on the receiving end of a lot of things I use to do...does make me more humble and that right there is a good place to start? It may not really show here when I'm venting away like everyone else....but at least I do understand it from my own experience and this is what is so difficult to try and explain to anyone else? That splain'in thing I use to do....ad nauseum.....I found really gets you no where? My wife is not a ....splain'er though and that makes it even more difficult to know what she's really thinking about? Mostly...was I get from her is what she see's me doing and this is the only way to gage what she's thinking about in a more indirect round about way? She's more of a "shut down" and "withdraw" person and she will just disappear for a while and you have no idea where she is? That in itself has taken some getting use to but I'm beginning to see and understand this better and realize she's just trying to manage? But she is so abrupt...and will do things seemingly out of no where and then have nothing to say or no explanation as to why she did what she did? Just letting her do this is a lot better than asking her or questioning her about her motives and intentions because she simply doesn't know?
I did have an amazing moment with her not too long ago ...that was amazing for me....but I'm sure she wouldn't say or think so?
We were starting to.....just at the beginning of what was looking like another argument or fight I put immediately stopped her and said...."tell me how you feel instead of doing what you're doing?" This only got more of the same and I stopped her again and said the same thing. This kept repeating it itself over and over until she just got so frustrated that she actually started breaking down and crying but at that moment...she also got angry and just blurted out...."You want to know how I feel.... I'll tell you!!!!!" And she proceeded to tell me how she actually felt as in her "feelings".
It was like a moment of absolute clarity and everything she said immediately cause me to begin to hear her and empathize with her? Almost like a light switch and I could hear, feel, and understand everything she said in an instant and now I actually had a better understanding of everything she was saying in a very real and understandable way?
The problem with this one time instance was that to get her there and for her to do that...caused so much internal disruption and stress and anxiety to do just that much....that even though I got exactly what I wanted which was that clarity of understanding and what she really needed from me......she was now in a "state' ...and then wanting nothing to do with me or hear anything I said? What was worth my effort to get her there for me....was not worth it for her and the effect it had on her? She was so done after that...it only served her to make her more disconnected even though it made me feel MORE connected to her? That certainly wasn't my intention for this to happen but I really got a look at what happens when she is actually expressing her emotions and telling me what she feels at the same time? Like NIGHT and DAY.....let me tell you?
But was that worth it and what effect did this have on my wife to do this? She didn't appreciate it very much and that much is for sure? It did show me however....how painful and how much effort it took her to do that and my main reason or intention for doing that...was in attempt to get her to stop "complaining" as her only way of expressing her needs and doing it that way instead? Of course....complaining about me and what I was "not doing" and that is usually the case when we get into conflict? As she see's it (mainly through the lens of herself )....she wants something....and doesn't know how to get it...so she will only see what she isn't getting...and then try and connect that to me in one way or another? She is literally....not making connections in her head....and this translates in not making connections with me...that moment was really an eye opener because in just that moment for that brief time despite the circumstances....I actually felt connected to her...and then it was lost and she went back to being herself again.
What you said about asking your husband what he was thinking ( a more stereotypical female thing to do and to be sure....I'm not criticizing but more laughing at myself and your husbands response! LOL) .....you know, a penny for your thoughts??? (hint hint....) "I....I......I......was thinking.......how much I would like to know.........just how to get leaky toilet to stop leaking since it's really costing a lot of money and the sound is keeps me up all night? " LOL "I don't know".....might be a safer answer in that case even if it's not the absolute truth? lol I think this might be less about ADHD and more a male female tendency to be honest but I hear what you are saying in terms of this topic? LOL Somehow.....I'm not getting the connection between "your breasts" and "tent grommets"...if you know what I mean which I know you do...it was just funny to hear and I do see this with my wife in her own way too! lol
I've caught on to this inability she has to know what her emotions are...and that like you ( in respect to understanding it's not intentional or intentionally disrespectful to me......even if she is being disrespectful by any standard you could use to gage this....is really helpful so I don't take it so personally?
Even going back and re-thinking the title question in this thread....there is something missing in between "I'm going to do something...and it not getting done?" That are more than one reason for this to happen ...but only one is caused my ADHD and the other possibilities are still available to a person with ADHD as well? It could be any number of reasons this might happen...so to say carte blanche....that it always happens for the same reason is going to get you in trouble in you make the wrong assumption?
With my wife....I've found some of those (code words ) are extremely useful? For example....for the longest time my wife was accusing me of all manner of ridiculous things when she would see me or observe me and would finally say them to me in order to understand what she was actually saying? It was so far off the mark as she saw me to what was actually happening....that I know understand her ability to see what she can't see in herself....translates directly to what she can't see in me as well? She would get fixated on a "word" and kept accusing me of doing this "word" incorrectly applied and this not only made me frustrated but it finally made me really angry? If you told someone repeatedly ...."NO...that's not it....it's this".....but that seems to have no effect or seemingly like....she didn't believe me? Or worse...she'd pull that well documented fact that "people with ADHD don't always see themselves as others do" on me...which now in light of the fact....that she is now suspect of having ADHD her self.....this REALLY made me angry and got me into a tail spin after a while? This went on and on for a very long time until we finally got down to what she was seeing (or thought she saw) which helped explain everything?
She kept repeating and using the word "agitation" when she would throw out these accusations and start to shut down? I don't know how many times ( as if...... she had asked "what are you feeling right now" ) which my response would have been...."anxious" or "anxiety" which would have been absolutely right on the money? But no....this is "agitation"....I know "agitation" when I see it? This went on for over a year or more and we had many fights over this word and what it meant to her right?
Finally....through many attempts of getting this out of her.....it finally came to light exactly what was causing this and why she said this in connecting..."anxious"....with....."agitation"....which in my mind the whole time...."agitation" is synonymous with "irritation" and "anger" and that much....I knew I was not at all....so what give?
This is exactly what happened here. When I get "anxious" or "nervous"....I tend to pace or get up and walk around. I've done this all my life with no ill effect and generally speaking....most people have never even questioned this because I just do it and tend to stand or walk around if sitting still starts getting uncomfortable. Mainly....even just standing up instead of sitting down will do the trick and no one normally says anything right? "Here...have a seat and take a load off." "No thanks....I've been sitting all day and standing feels good right now" No big deal right. Most people have doen this at one time or another...so where is "agitation" coming into play here?
For what ever reason that is still unclear to me? When I would stand up and just move around and not SIT...like she was doing...this causes some kind of trigger or reaction in her I just don't understand or know the reason why? But it does and then my wife (use to ) start accusing me of 'things I wasn't doing?". Right? So now....I'm getting irritated with her doing this after telling her repeatedly that I do it when I'm feeling "anxious" which is pretty normal for me in small ways and I just take care of by not sitting or just moving around while I talk? Mostly just standing will do this and I don't have to pace? But now.....when my anxiety...or the anxiety of her accusing me of being "agitated"....and with her getting increasing more reactionary...... and now she's getting "REALLY AGITATED" over this.....and now I'm .....getting "agitated" over her accusing me of being agitated...and now getting really irritated at this...along with her getting agitated? This would just ramp up with her and me along with her...until I was finally getting really upset and now....I'm ANGRY!! LOL It was painfully ridiculous...the irony of this and it was just baffling to me since my wife could not simply tell me what was troubling her?
At this point...I did finally arrive at this connection issue and realizing what this is all about? It's about connection via association in lue of not being connected enough with her won feelings to know what they are? Some how....some where in wife's past I'm guessing....that moving around while talking or just standing up when you are having a heart to heart conversation with someone means "agitation" which is a prelude in her mind....to "anger" as the consistent or absolute end result of this every time?
Agitation"....means "Anger"...and is a fear response to me just being anxious about anything? It might be the weather for all that matters ...but when she's see me get up or move around ( or pace even worse )...that meant...."agitation, anger, and a fight" her mind ?
"Guilty by association"....with no "real logical connection" to anything that means anything? Actually strike that and reverse it. Anything....can "Mean"....anything? Which makes it kind of hard to know what.....anything means? After too long? lol At least once I figured this out.....I now understand it to mean exactly what it means.....she has an almost inability...to determine or know what her's or others people behaviors or intentions are and she consistently will connects the wrong behaviors....to the wrong reasons because of it? At this point....I don't have to take offense or get angry about his...but I have to remind myself in those moments....that what she accuses me of or what she see's.....is not something that I should put that much credence into and just let it slide on by.
Kind of like "breasts" and "tent grommets"? LOL Who know's where that one came from? LOL
I can sum this up with one of my favorite bastardized Confucius sayings " Accusations....like TV set on Honeymoon......Unnecessary! ":)
J
Saira,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Saira,
I wanted to dig a little deeper into one of your paragraphs, as I think it really has some insight for my personal situation. I wanted to think on it some and really take a look at how I handle things with my husband, because of what you wrote.
You said...
"Talking with my ex-SO was very frustrating. I knew I was messing up all the time. I'd know and I'd forget and then I'd make things worse. Or I'd think everything was okay after a day or two had passed and it wasn't. I always felt like my attempted explanations were just hitting a wall and that he didn't want to hear it. In hindsight it makes sense because I think I often forgot to apologize out loud. I'd blame myself and cry for hours after I'd messed up and apologize in my head and regret it like crazy, but then I'd forget I hadn't told him it out loud yet whenever I tried to talk about things. Also... he could never understand it, and I could never figure out how to explain it once we were in front of each other because my mind would go blank and I'd freeze."
If I didnt know any better, I would swear you were my husband writing this. I would say the biggest block we have in communication - you summed up quite nicely from the ADHD perspective. My husband also forgets to verbalize things to me - I have posted on several occasions about the conversations he will have in his head about and with me - but never actually open his mouth. I thought I was going crazy because he was SO insistant that he has spoken up, but he had not. I even thought I was going to have to start recording our conversations. I did notice that the times he did respond, there were several occasions where it would take him about 10 minutes before he spoke up, it was like time was on hold just waiting for his response. SO WEIRD! I actually started timing responses it was so odd. If I speak up before he responds - he gets extremely defensive and complains that I am not giving him time.. so I stopped. Its a very odd communication pattern. I have adjusted to it now - but for a long time I took it very personally, like he was actually just ignoring me.
Have you ever found yourself analyzing thoughts and responses and then figuring out you might not have verbalized your ideas or maybe didnt speak up in a timely fashion?
I can say that like V, I have felt very dismissed and ignored. And reading your post - makes me realize that maybe it really isnt intentional at all, just hard to manage racing brain syndrome? For years, I have been upset with that dismissed feeling, and though he does sometimes aknowlege the problem - he doesnt do anything to correct it solidly or consistantly. Just little baby steps bit by bit with lots of slips in between. Maybe your SO never could see that you were upset and since you didnt verbalize - there wasnt any way for him to understand your postition? Maybe keeping a journal to jot down your thoughts as you have them (not doing any analysis, just if you are upset - write down "i am upset" - if you know why - "I am upset because of blahblahblah". And maybe if you are upset because you feel like you have commited an offense, mark down - "apologize to so and so". It sounds hard, but my husband did this and it REALLY helped him connect better to his internal emotions and allowed him to experience it - then let it go since he had record and didnt have to worry about "remembering". We just would look at his book and see what we could make out of it.
Now - please understand this is coming from the opposite perspective - so take that for what you will. I imagine your SO experienced many of the things we post about here, and it became extremely hard and frustrating for him as well. I can imagine there was much hurt on both sides - but if your experience is anything like my husbands - that hurt and pain seems VERY one sided to those of us who are not ADHD. My husband doesnt verbalize either - so to me, its like he doesnt even care. He could be a boiling mess of love on the inside, but I have no idea because he doesnt tell me or show me. In fact he shows me the opposite. Maybe you could work on trying to express what you are feeling (starting with the journal and then building towards with others) to help with communication and expression of that communication?
Maybe even just having the journal to show to someone else to help you learn how to express emotion so you dont freeze up - almost like when you take notes for a speech or something. I am just trying to share some things that did seem to help my husband some when he was working on his own issues and symptom management. I hope that you have faith in yourself that you can manage these things and live a dynamic healthy expressive life. You are already in the top percentiles of those who can actually *see* the impact they are having on others. You might be shocked to know that soooo many people who have these behavior tendancies dont even see it. You are ahead of the game already!
Stacey
Submitted by Saira on
Sure, I wasn't expecting any response anytime soon so I'm definitely surprised and happy someone's talking to me. I already went through a massive in-my head conversation with some imagined person from here, but an actual conversation seems much more... well, real. Go figure.
Yeah, my ex-SO was aware that, at times, I'd forget to verbalize things, but it's one thing to hear me suddenly start talking from the middle of a conversation I was having in my own head, and another to hear me suddenly try to explain myself a couple hours after I'd messed up without having apologized. He would get angry because he'd feel like I was just making excuses for my actions. That honestly confused me until I told him I'd apologized to him for that already and he said I hadn't. I was shocked, and asked again to confirm it and he did. I already know my memory is terrible, so I trust that I really hadn't.
As for the whole 10 minute thing, I have no clue if that was something I did or not. There are times though, where I do spend a long time simulating a conversation in my head to try to figure out what to say, and sometimes I'll finish and feel like, wow that went great, only to realize I hadn't yet said it out loud a while later. I can hazard a guess about why he'd be upset though. The moment I'm interrupted, any thought processes I had going on go right out the window and then I have to try to remember it again starting from the beginning. After that, it isn't as smooth and feels more stilted and like it's an inferior copy of the first train of thought with lots of holes in it and then I get upset.
Yes, I feel like I've been in many many situations where I'd be trying to simultaneously: analyze body language, analyze facial expressions/search for their causes, figure out my own thoughts, simulate conversations, guess at his thoughts/everyone else's thoughts, try to put together a response, possibly while getting distracted by any movements I see or sounds I hear, and struggling to keep it all in order without jumbling it all up. When I think about it. It's like I'm desperately trying to juggle a bunch of randomly shaped items while holding a conversation.
Actually, I have a lot of trouble with timing. I sit there and I'm trying to pound out a response in my head and it takes so long to get it all in order that, by the time I've formulated my response and I'm about to start talking, I find it's been 5-10 minutes, maybe even half an hour at the very worst, and the conversation has already moved to another topic. It's really frustrating sometimes, especially when I feel like I just came up with something great and witty, but it's 5-10 minutes too late now and the topic is all wrong. Sometimes I'll ruminate on conversations years ago and suddenly a witty thought will come up in my mind and I'll be really frustrated I didn't think of it back then and I kinda got used to dismissing myself as exceptionally slow-witted. Not exactly stupid, but not a very fast thinker.
I know, at least, about the very dismissed and ignored things. After things ended for me in my relationship, I went looking into things my ex-SO said about me. I found a lot of ties to ADHD and selfishness and partners feeling like they were raising another child or that they were unappreciated or unloved. Some of what I read was actually on this forum, and it made me feel so much worse about myself. I also found a pretty good book "Is it you, me, or Adult ADD?" and it's for non-ADHD partners but I was looking for answers so I got it too. It's apparently very common for people, especially when dealing with partners who are undiagnosed but have ADHD to have these sorts of issues.
As for intention or not, at least for me, it was almost never intentional. Sometimes when I was extremely peeved and frustrated and anxious and stressed, I'd do things that were intentionally hurtful like refuse to communicate whatsoever. But those were rare cases, and I was always dealing with so much guilt afterward I'd wind up crying somewhere and hating myself and telling myself I was unworthy of love and that I was just a terrible person who needed to either kill herself now before she hurts anyone else, or end things between me and my ex-SO now before I hurt him more.
It's really hard to make these changes. For me, I'll realize them, but without a strong approach or very real consequences about to smack me in the face, it's really hard to remember these things or to feel like it's something I really really have to work on immediately. I mentioned not being able to imagine the future, and it's true for consequences too. It's why I do so many stupid things and regret it later, because consequences don't feel real until they're looming right there in front of me and are about to take me down a few pegs.
Also, it's really hard for me to make these changes because it's overwhelming. I can never figure out where to start or how to make a plan that will get results or what I need to do to fix things. Trying to think about what to do makes me extremely stressed and frustrated too. So it's so much easier to just go do something easy for a while, even if it's a terrible thing to do if you're looking at the long-term. Also, the context of things matter too. If the context changes sometimes it makes it seem like the rules have changed too and that of course isn't the case.
I don't know if he couldn't see that I was upset or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't. I'd run away to go cry somewhere and be angry for a while when I was angry at him. When I was upset about my actions, I would cry in front of my computer screen and I'm pretty sure he thought I was reading whatever novel was on the screen at the time, or think I was happily chit chatting with online friends when in reality I was sitting in front crying my eyes out, hating my guts, and confessing my crimes and how I was a terrible person to online friends.
I was extremely insecure, and I tried so hard to hide it from him because I thought it would hurt him to know I was so insecure with him and I knew there wasn't anything he could do to fix it. I was hiding my anxiety and my stress by absorbing myself in stuff that I used to like but no longer enjoyed. I was trying really hard to pretend everything was okay and normal in an effort to keep things going.
I actually do understand that I failed to communicate with him. I know it was and is a problem. I've had six weeks to reflect on the last 4 years, and more and more things are becoming clear to me every week.
I'm actually aware that things were rough for my SO. I really am. I know he felt frustrated, he actually told me a lot of what he'd been holding back for years on the day our relationship was pretty suddenly severed. He didn't really go into detail, but when reading "Is it You, Me, or Adult ADD" and searching through forums like this one, I was able to actually put together an idea of how badly I'd messed up. It's still hazy, and I do forget it at times, but generally I blame myself for everything that went wrong. I know it was frustrating, I know I broke his heart, and I know it felt one-sided to him.
He said that I seemed okay with things as they were, and that I never wanted to do anything with him. He said I didn't like to do the same things he did and that I never seemed to show basic consideration and I just didn't seem to share interests with him. He said he always had to make the plans and that he felt like I wasn't his girlfriend I was his child. (And to be honest, I'd cried about that too to online friends, that I wasn't an equal partner and didn't know how to be and that he was going to get tired of taking care of me eventually and then it'd end). He told me that the time he spent with me was the happiest in his life, but also the saddest, and I could feel my heart shatter when I heard him say that.
I asked him if he was willing to let me try again if I got treatment, if I could turn things around, if I could change and learn, and he wouldn't respond no matter how much I asked him. So I knew I'd lost him permanently. He's stubborn like that. I know he was hurt. I know he was hurting. He told me he'd been depressed, that he wasn't sleeping well, that he was losing his optimism, and that he didn't feel the way he used to about me.
He told me that he thought I got angry too often and that it'd negatively effect our future children if we had any. He felt that we'd argue in front of the kids and it would hurt them. He felt that the strain of being with me would be too much and he'd leave and then our future kids would get the short end of the stick. He told me he felt like I wouldn't be a good mother. That I didn't have the patience for it, and that I didn't have the consideration either. He told me that he didn't want to wait until the point where he was happy to have me gone.
He told me all that, and I didn't interrupt him, or when I did I'd quickly realize, apologize and then let him continue on. Funny how it's only when it comes to this conversation that I could control my mouth. When I asked him if he was going to end the relationship, he broke down crying and confessed that he was scared of what would happen to me if he did. He knew I had been suicidal in the past and had dealt with depression for a long time. Maybe that's why he held on so long and never told me how he felt until that day. So he told me how he felt, made it clear he didn't want to give me another chance (because he'd already given me so many and I hadn't taken them, ofc), made it clear he didn't feel the same way he used to about me, and that I would have to make the final decision.
What could I do?
I tried so badly to not choke on sobs as I told him that I understood. I told him that I know I'd messed up badly, and that my promises were worthless. I told him that this relationship would end right here, right now. That he could still use my stuff if he wanted. I told him that, it was over, and he started sobbing, and I hugged him and tried to comfort him. I told him that he shouldn't cry. This was a good thing for him. The future was open to him now and that he would find someone better for him. He would find someone so much better, and he would be so much happier, and that his future would be bright and beautiful now. I told him that I would be okay. I told him I would survive. So he didn't have to worry about me anymore. I told him that from now on, he can focus on himself, and that everything would be so much better for him. He was going to find happiness, and he would find a better girl who would deserve his love and make him feel loved. "Don't cry, because from here on out, your life will be so much better."
And I cried. I cried so hard. I said it all and believed it. He was finally free of me. I was the rock tied to his ankle, but he was free of me now. And then when his sobs calmed. I couldn't help it. I didn't mean to. But I clung to his waist crumpled down on the seat and screamed that I didn't want this. That I didn't want to let him go. That I loved him so much. That I didn't want to do this. But I had to and I knew I had to do this for him. I don't know how long I cried and screamed, not long, because I knew I shouldn't have. So I made myself let go. Then I apologized for making this harder, that I shouldn't have said that. I apologized because I hadn't been able to control myself until the end like I'd meant to. I forced myself to leave, and I stumbled away to go cry somewhere else.
In about 48 hours, the seventh week without him will begin.
What a way to realize all your friends were his friends who you hung out with. What a day to find out that your shared roommates hated you too. Ahahaha, I feel so stupid. I feel so dumb. It didn't have to be this way. I hate me so much sometimes. I only see the impact a while after the fact or when the consequences catch me. I only have empathy after the fact, because when caught up in the moment, I don't have the spare processing power to deal with empathy too.
Writing down a journal is a good idea, and it's been recommended to me so many times, but I have trouble keeping up with my thoughts when writing. When I'm typing it's easier, but I'm not always in front of a computer and it's not always convenient to journal, unfortunately. However, adding in that I need to apologize is a good idea. Actually, if I do keep it short, that might work. Rather then going for detail, just jotting down a sentence or two might be a good idea for when I don't have enough time. Thanks for that, I'll try to implement it. No promises, because I don't know if I can remember it, but I did write it down. Probably need to sticky note it all over the place too actually.
To be honest, I don't have anyone to share a journal with anymore. There isn't anyone in person around me anymore. I usually just sit there and cry on my own, because there's no one to call. Right now, I've kind of gone back to my avoiding people and therefore avoiding problems method of coping with life. I'm kinda okay with the solitude now. I was okay with it before my ex, and it's taken me six weeks, but I'm okay enough that I can handle it again now. I can't hurt anyone this way, and I don't have to be scared of being rejected or accidentally burning another friendship or relationship to the ground.
I do go to counseling stuff too. ADD testing once a week, counseling once a week, a coping skills workshop, and a group therapy thing for learning about healthy relationships.
Saira,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Saira,
I am going to digest on this some and respond more later, but I did want to say a couple of things right quick.
1. While you might feel very alone and sad right now - this will pass. You are doing the hardest thing in the world - which is working on yourself. It doesnt matter if you have ADHD or ADD or chicken pox. :-) Its gonna be a tough and hard road. I am in the same spot as you - but as the non who is being left behind. Your words could be my husbands.... they are so similar. I wish that your partner had been able to read up on ADHD, and maybe he will one day and reflect back on this.
2. If you want to journal - and you want to share - this is a good place to do it. its public, and it opens you wide up for all kinds of commentary - but maybe thats not a bad thing? And yes - keeping it super short is the idea. My husbands entries sometimes consisted of 1 or 2 words. But it helped him get in touch with a part of him that was locked up for a LONG time due to trauma. Maybe for you - just getting in the habbit with a little book or on your phone to jot a note about how you feel. "I'm angry right now - 2:30 pm" as an example. Do what ever feels right in the moment - and if you dont do it consistantly at first dont worry about it. Do it when you think about it, and even maybe set some reminder alarms on your phone to write down what you are feeling at that moment. Anything to help you learn to express yourself.
3. Never is a big word. I dont believe in "never". My husband does - he holds "never" in an almost religious sense. He will "never" be a good husband (even though he has been, more often than not). He can "never" be fixed (even though he was rising like the launch of the space shuttle when he actually put in the effort to manage his symptoms). My husband can "never" be truly loved for who he is - and the truth of the matter is he IS loved, deeply and truly. Because love isnt all happy bubbles and ice cream - love can be tough and hard, and sometimes it involves walking away. Dont put that "never" limitation on yourself.
ADHD - yes, it can cause all kinds of problems with interaction and work and friendships and relationships and house cleaning etc.... But if you can learn to manage your self (bring on those sticky notes!!! EVERYWHERE - hell I do it too and I am NOT ADHD!!!) and harness that fast past, unusual mind of yours - the sky is the limit. Because ADHD can be a gift. THink of yourself as a race car - you have the potential to go faster than anyone else. All you need to do is learn how to drive the race car - and quit trying to drive it like a truck. :-)
This forum is AMAZING... there are ADHD, non ADHD and everything in between. Many issues, many opinions. And yes, it can proabaly be hard at times to see yourself and actions in the posts of others - especially when they are negative - but take what you can from it, learn from it. And I know that I can speak for me - I will always be happy to give a supporting cheer for you, and if you want an honest opinion - I will happily give it from the perspective of a non ADHD spouse. If it wasnt for this place - I probably would have lost my mind a long time ago. I am grateful for everyone here, including you.
Your kind and open posts have enlightened me so much - and have really brought so much in perspective for me. Its helped me in ways that I am not even sure how to express in a VERY short amount of time, and I am sure that I will get more and more out of them as I re-read and absorb all that you have said.
Dont give up on yourself - you have friends here :-).
Thank you.
Submitted by Saira on
I should probably do the same on other things too.
Thanks. I honestly hope that too, because right now, no explanation will get through to him, and those explanations definitely cannot come from me either. He's not ready to hear these things so soon, from what I can tell. Too much pain and all, so his mind would be pretty closed and it would only sound like more excuses at this point in time, and I'm aware of that. But I do want him to one day understand and realize that it wasn't intentional either.
No, I don't think feedback or a different perspective is a bad thing. Not sure how I'd do the journal though. The one-line journal thing might be just for me, because it's a bunch of short sentences, but I could do something like posting journal entries that were longer or something. Thank you very much for the advice. It is good advice.
I actually have had those same thoughts as your husband. And if I was loved, I was convinced that it was due to some misunderstanding someone had about who I was, or that I'd somehow fooled people. I felt that even if I was loved, it would just be like me to ruin it all again and love would turn to hate and then I'd be miserable again. Sorry for the negativity there, it's something I'm planning to work through slowly. I've started a little through counseling, but it's going to take some time.
Yeah, I'm waiting for a diagnosis, but in the mean time, I'm trying things like mini-habits and light exercise 4-5 days a week. I don't know about the gift part. To me it seems more like a curse assuming it is ADHD of course. To me it seems like if I've got a race car, it's a race car with a foggy windshield and faulty brakes. I'd rather drive a truck with a clear windshield and good brakes.
Yeah, I'll try to learn from them. I'm also grateful to you and everyone else who responded to me as well. Thank you for being so encouraging.
I don't know about kind, but I can agree with open. I'm not sure what kindness you're talking about. I'm glad it did give you a new perspective and that it helps. That was what I was hoping for when I first posted.
Thank you.
Oops.
Submitted by Saira on
I appear to have accidentally double posted.
.
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
((( Saira )))
To them, saying that they're
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
To them, saying that they're going to do something relieves the stress. So, if they notice that a room is messy, they say, "I'm going to clean that up this weekend." Suddenly the stress is gone...even tho they're not really going to clean that weekend.
My assistant frequently says things like, "one day, I'm going to buy (some very expensive item)". It's really a joke because she lives paycheck to paycheck, and never saves anything,so she'll never have the money for those items. But saying that someday she'll buy something makes her feel better.
OWW:)
Submitted by c ur self on
(My assistant frequently says things like, "one day, I'm going to buy (some very expensive item)". It's really a joke because she lives paycheck to paycheck, and never saves anything,so she'll never have the money for those items. But saying that someday she'll buy something makes her feel better.)
I just laughed when I read this....It is so correct:).....Self Encouragement is therapy for us all; even if it is an illusion:)
Blessings
C
Yes, it's what they do!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Yes, it's what they do!
My H is also an alcoholic. He no longer drinks everyday, but he'll drink a few times a month. And when he's upset, he'll drink a LOT. The next day he'll feel bad about drinking and say, "That's it. I'm not going to drink again. I have to stop." He'll even tell others of his "decision". I'm sure his announcements make him "feel better." But, those announcements are soon forgotten the next time he justifies drinking.
My brother does the same thing....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've known some amazingly gifted people whom due to the inability to find the power of self-control and discipline their life is just one sad story after the next.....
C