When you converse with one of us, and in response to something you've said, we begin to work on a task, probably impulsively, it is difficult for us to shift our attention back into an ordinary kind of conversation. This raises the issue of the facets of this disorder. Paying attention involves more than zooming-in on a topic and staying fixed on it, although that's very important, obviously. To interact effectively with our world and the various demands we all face, we must be able to zoom-out at will, too. That's tricky. Even with meds, my brain doesn't like repositioning itself. I want to be all in. If I have to shift my attention constantly, that's tough. I can do it, with meds, but it is difficult.
I said all that to say if your ADHDer seems to take off in the middle of having a talk with her, that could be a factor.
Also, if we seem inclined to shut you out, remember that we get frustrated too. 1. It isn't fun for anyone to fail repeatedly nor 2. to be reminded of it. Like everyone, we can only handle so much hurt and disappointment. Without meaning to, my SO does a heck of a job bombarding me with a tone in her voice that says, "You big idiot!" We get locked into ways of relating to one another that can be annoying due to years of conditioning. You know? I have to remind myself what hooking up with me was like for her pre-dx. She needs to remember that she doesn't have to tell me the same thing 63,000 times. I occasionally say, "I heard you the first time." (What a treat that is!)
Loving Kindness Is Hip
Submitted by repeat that please on
RTP, hard to change
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Repeat that phrase, when we're you diagnosed, and did you start meds right away? If so, did you see a dramatic difference? I take it you had been married years before your diagnosis, so there's years of conditioned responses she has to change which may take time. Does she know about the ADHD, and has she learned about the symptoms? (Only if you don't mind talking about it, if you do mind, I understand.)
I am going through something similar, and an having a difficult time with myself. My H and I have been married 36 years tomorrow. He was diagnosed about 13 years ago, and has been on Concerta.
I was never the "nagging and bitchy" kind of wife that is described in the books on ADHD. I loved him, respected him, treated him as an adult and didn't put him down even though really bizarre things were happening. He also stopped wanting sex, ( which was always limited) and he wouldn't help me with my desire. (I think you know what I mean) His avoidance of dealing with his condition is a problem. But, the hardest thing was his blaming me for things that truly was from ADH D symptoms. He also had a long term affair, (which I never understood) and another one about 4 years ago. I had HAD it and left for a year, but had to come back for financial and physical problems. He still couldn't show me the love and attention I really needed, not even a little, so I changed my feelings for him. I broke away emotionally from him and stopped trying to engage with him at all. Just kept the peace, was cheerful and conversed pleasantly. But, inside I was starving and felt empty. And I became a different person. I hated who I became. My love was not returned most of those years, and I knew something died in me inside. I was not the person I used to be, and I couldn't "talk" these things over with him, I felt alone and unheard. He has trouble with switching conversation like you said you often do. I made many mistakes, but again, we couldn't work through them. His discussion level about our relationship is almost non existent.
Anyway, several months ago, he had a change of heart. I don't know why, or how, but he's been different. He's been kind, more even tempered, and happier, and treating me nicely. He's doing things for me he never would have before. And he's really trying to make me happy. He's been telling me what an idiot he's been, and that I deserved better. And he's really trying. Biggest thing is....this has gone on for several months now, and I don't know how to respond. Normally I would have welcomed this with open arms and gladness. But, I don't feel that way now. Maybe, I'm waiting for this to all end, and have him go back to "himself" again. 35 years having him being one way, and having to change myself to survive took it's toll on me. He has a difficult time EVER telling the "WHYS" of things, but there are times I need a few "why" questions answered, so that I can understand it.
Just accepting the response, "Well, that's the way it is now", is not an answer for me. It's too risky, and can change quickly. He didn't try to help me through the hurt of his affairs, and said, "That's in the past". Sorry, too risky. If he can't explain why, I have no way to understand his behaviors. I gave my marriage and family my all and my everything, and years later felt used and shameful for doing so, and because he wouldn't confront the ADHD, I had to accept that "This is the way he IS, just accept it". "Don't fight him on this, just accept it, and know I made a mistake in marrying him"...........until now.
So, now he's being different, and I don't know what the heck to say or do. I wish I could throw my arms around him and love him like I felt like before, but I just can't do that now. The trust isn't there. I don't hate him, not at all, but I did have to change how I felt about him, because it was destroying me. I got damaged in the process anyway.
He still has ADH D which he doesn't know very much about, and doesn't learn. I have read everything I can, and listen to several experts talk about it. So, can this change actually BE real, or will I be betrayed again the minute I let my guard down? I don't know.
There are still conversations we can't have, because of the things you talked about above. In conversation a non ADH D person can go from one subject to another quickly, and then tie them all together if we see a common thread. He can't, and has to process one thought at a time, one subject at a time in limited amounts. We can't cover much ground like this. But, if we talk about politics (especially) or something HE's interested in, he can talk for hours. Yes, it's frustrating. Politics don't do much for interpersonal connections.lol
Anyway, I know this is long, but it's an example of what happens when the symptoms of ADH D get left untreated and not addressed.
Who knows. It might get better, but I am still at a loss of what to do or say to him. I would love to hear him talk openly about his ADHD, like what you are doing here. It does shed light on many, many things, and I think would help. Anyway, thanks for listening.
Dede
Miracle
Submitted by repeat that please on
"Repeat that phrase, (please) when we're you diagnosed, and did you start meds right away? If so, did you see a dramatic difference?"
I was diagnosed almost 30 years ago after extensive testing and a thorough review of my medical, educational, work and personal history and they received written input from a number of people from my past. Went to a clinic 4 times before I started meds and it was truly like a miracle. For the first time in my life, I could hear! Do you know what that was like? I could function. I realized for the first time what I had missed out on all those years, too. I was in heaven and I grieved.
I also gained 3 and a half tons of confidence. My priorities got screwed up for a while, big time, as well. I thought I could have almost anything I wanted and the tension between that and doing what I believed was probably right was intense. "Why can't I do what I want? I never had a real life before! I deserve to be happy and grab whatever I can while I can."
What I really wanted was what I always wanted--to help others. What I had were people in my life who loved me, who were truly beautiful, gifted human beings and I couldn't have attracted better people into my life no matter what. I already had what I always wanted. Not in every way and not perfectly, but man I was blessed, deeply, wonderfully blessed with the loved ones who had been with me through it all.
My intention in making the next comment is not to blow you off, at all. I really wish I could provide answers and insights that would make a huge difference for you and yours. Nothing would make me feel better and be more rewarding.
Your relationship with him is complex and there is only one thing that I know of, to see if you should be trusting of these new changes: time. Since he hasn't been trustworthy for long stretches of time, (neither was I) it means it is necessary that he shows this new side of him consistently over time. He must reestablish trustworthiness.
If these changes are real and he is truly sorry for the harm he's caused, he must become willing to prove it without seeking a thing in return. Zero.
That's my opinion. If he's really interested in rebuilding a relationship with you, he needs to go to counseling and get involved with it. He needs to honor your pain and take action to stop hurting you now, whatever it takes.
I think Orlov's seminars for couples should help you two. I mean, she seems to be addressing exactly the kinds of issues you guys have had and are having, and you can ask her specific questions about your peculiar circumstances, you know? I am not aware of anyone doing the kind of ADHD relationship focused therapy that she is and from everything I have read, she knows her stuff. She's been through a ton of it and she's humble enough to acknowledge it and she burns with desire to reach out to those who are suffering as she did. I love that. Plus, being a Harvard grad speaks for itself. Also, she's associated with Hallowell and he is the best around. He has helped so many of us. He put the reality of adult ADHD on the map. I lived in Driven To Distraction. It changed my life. It was the source of guidance for me regarding my whole ADHD impacted life and I practically memorized it.
I am concerned in general about a couple of things I've found here. Are people getting properly and thoroughly diagnosed? We are brimming with comorbitities. The correct diagnoses for each and all of our bio-medical illnesses and treatment for them make all the difference. What if I can pay attention but I can't get out of bed? What if I can pay attention but I love betting on the horses?
I wonder if the thoughts and feelings shared in this setting anonymously could be brought to the SOs in writing to ensure they are fully aware of the dynamics, how tenuous their circumstances are, how much pain is felt, in black and white.
Criticism fatigue has a role in these things as well. SOs are fed up to here and nothing they say or do makes a difference. ADHDers are fed up, too. All we do is wrong, day in and day out, no matter what we do. Without strings, let your main squeeze know you appreciate him/her. My 2 cents.
You didn't write too much, Dede. You expressed what's going on and it was interesting and easy to read.
More
Submitted by repeat that please on
"I take it you had been married years before your diagnosis, so there's years of conditioned responses she has to change which may take time. Does she know about the ADHD, and has she learned about the symptoms? (Only if you don't mind talking about it, if you do mind, I understand.)"
Our roles changed. I was pretty helpless before diagnosis and dealt with my pain by running from it in various ways. As I became capable of following what was being said, I became more confident. She could pity me before. It was an adjustment to treat me on a more equal footing. She is familiar with the symptoms but she doesn't tolerate excuses. If I do stuff that reminds her of my helplessness, she gets ticked. She's had to learn the difference between legitimate reasons for struggles and excuse making, as have I. I have hurt her terribly and she refuses to subject herself to more pain for bull crap. I respect her for that. And it gets more complicated from there. I wish I had had access to someone like Orlov. It would have been really helpful, really helpful, to have someone we could look to with expertise to help us sort things out. It may still be helpful. Treatment for ADHD unraveled more disorders/addictions/deep, deep pain. I was in intensive therapy on and off for years. My life was hell growing up, literally. I don't use that term lightly. It has taken cycles of denial, terrible pain, seeking help, willingness to surrender, work, time and my God. I am not done, but have come a long way. For someone who truly had a good, big, loving heart, I sure hurt a lot of people and did many hateful things. I'm even learning to forgive myself, which is monumental. I didn't deserve forgiveness based on my upbringing. Anyway, my healing has been a process and our relationship reflects those kinds of associated ups and downs. I've been blessed beyond words to have my SO in my life even though, I too, thought she was the source of my problems at times. She cannot be everything to me, even though I've expected her to be. Growing up is tough. But it is wonderful, too. Things have never been better.
Deserves?
Submitted by c ur self on
(I didn't deserve forgiveness based on my upbringing.)
I am so thankful my God made an escape (The Christ) from what I deserve.....
c
Amazing
Submitted by repeat that please on
The Saturn 5 Rocket produced more power than 85 Hoover Dams or to put it another way, 160,000,000 horsepower. I felt like a Saturn 5 with my first med for ADHD, almost. It was, after all, the power of the human brain that made Apollo possible.
RTP, getting full diagnosis
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you for responing. I know I didn't write too much, but I didn't want it to be too long either, lol. You touched on something quite profound. Are the ones who have ADH D getting properly diagnosed? THAT'S a magnificent question, and I don't think they are. (not a full diagnosis with all the bells and whistles, I think) My H hasn't gotten one of those yet. Several doctors have said he HAS ADHD, and a psychiatrist treated him for the first couple years after being told this. He was put on Concerta, which does make a big difference in his focusing, which even he sees the improvement when taking it. But, he would stop taking it after a.while because he felt "better". (NOT a good thing to do) Then go back on it again.
He never got the full evaluation, with all the questions. Plus, no doctor has ever asked to talk to me, which I don't understand. I don't think they can make a full evaluation without speaking to the spouse or family member about all the symptoms flying around. Lol.
I 've had my suspicions about co-morbidities with him, as well, such as ODD. (Oppositional defiance disorder) or something else, but I can't diagnose any of those. His mother was diagnosed bipolar, and and passed from Alzheimer's, but she had a mental disorder before that we believe. So it is a genetic thing. His siblings had these also, but all diagnosed later in life, not as children.
I hope I didn't write myself as some sort of saint, (promise you I'm not), but I have been patient with him. It didn't seem to help, since he doesn't know enough about ADHD. What is hard is the communication styles. It's like one person speaking French and another one German, and they're trying to have a deep theological discussion. Won't work.lol.
I DO wish he could get a thorough and in-depth diagnosis, that will tell him everything. He has to be told by a professional, because he won't take my word for many things. Plus, he doesn't tell any doctor much about himself. He talks about work, jobs, what he does, etc, but not about his actions and feelings in his life. The psychiatrist did to some extent, but they were more like "buddies" instead of it being more professional. We also went to a marriage counselor who said she deals with ADHD, but obviously didn't. She never brought it up after many sessions. Hmmm.
I don't know if there are ADH D clinics or not, but there should be. There are substance abuse clinics everywhere, and ADH D is often at the heart of those. So, it would be prudent to have these types of clinics available.
Thanks again for sharing here Repeat. I learn so much from your experiences. Bless you friend. Dede
They are difficult, terrifying, beastly things
Submitted by repeat that please on
They are called "Men." And, seventy-five percent of an adult male's behavior flows from the emotional psyche of a 12 year old boy, IMO. Believe it or not. Probably not difficult to believe, but dealing with us up close and personal, it may be a challenge to remember.
"don't think they can make a full evaluation without speaking to the spouse or family member about all the symptoms flying around. Lol."
I agree. However, for many men it is a great risk and truly terrifying to be vulnerable in front of others, even professional counselors/therapists/doctors about what total boobs we are---and--- having to return and face him/her with our weaknesses/faults/failures hanging out of our guts. It is one thing to let it all out with a once and done encounter. To face the same person who just learned all about us, well that takes courage, and many of us are cowards along these lines. We'd rather march off to war with the good chance of getting shot than to bear our true insecure selves to another and go back over and over to try to make improvements in our brokenness.