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Hello. I feel for the both of you. It's kind of you to consider his position if you leave but perhaps it's not the healthiest. In a way it is still mothering him. He can probably get a roommate to help with the bills, which might give him an opportunity to learn how to be functional while he still has a paycheck. It won't be easy for him no matter the timing. I find it somewhat alarming that his son got so little attention in his text. Clearly he was having a rant and wasn't going to let a lack of audience get in the way. Classic impulse out of control. Good luck.
I can't tell you how unnerving it is to read this. I guess I see too much similarity in the way of promising to be better and losing that focus. Lost love as a concept just gnaws at me, and the idea that any possible thread of marital bond is gone. I really wish you the best and I think that probably includes an orderly separation (As Shelley said, perhaps as orderly as possible without playing the roommate game). It is just so close to home as a potential future (the absolute worst fear) that the instant I stop writing this I'll have to put the thoughts away and pay attention to a work project. Thinking about your situation is the emotional equivalent of the first steps out of the bomb shelter after nuclear weapons have destroyed all the world.
I am sorry, Lauren--I have seen a lot of similarities in my previous situation and many of your posts. I understand that your spouse is upset and feeling insecure, but I know there is nothing worse than needing some space and having someone kind of "on" you. His text reminds me of the communication from my STBX, who would go on long tirades and to this day leaves me extremely long phone messages without much filter.
It sounds like you have kind of made an emotional break and that's understandable. (I experienced many of the same things you have). It is laudable that you feel obligated to stay and take care of him, and if you think your marriage is salvageable, then by all means, maybe you should and see if he can get treated or work on things. Otherwise, it sounds like the situation is very painful for your spouse and he may not be able to handle it and you may be in for more of the same if you stay. You are on completely different pages.
I don't know how to handle the intrusive, emotional, long texts at work (mine decided to call me and ask if I was seriously never coming back and why and didn't I love him any more when I was at work one day--let's just say the place I work is pretty public and there are children around) because for me, ignoring them just made it worse. I finally had to tell him I could not talk to him any more at all if he didn't cool it. I am thinking of you and best of luck to you.
Poop or get off the pot. I know that's crude but it is what it is.
If you have no interest in saving your marriage, it's cruel for you to stay simply because you think he won't be able to function without you. That's not the type of life you need to live and it's not the type of life he needs to be caught in.
If he wants to go to marriage counseling, I think you should consider it. This concept of "we need to rebuild our friendship" will not happen under the current circumstances and honestly, I can't blame him for freaking out. He sounds a lot like me and I don't even have ADHD! Some people can't cope with the uncertainty of a situation. Has it ever occurred to you that he can't invest himself in improving his ADHD if he thinks you're just going to leave. They don't think like us. It sounds ludicrous, we think that they should want to change or do better for themselves, but they don't think that way. In their brains, they have learned to cope with the ADHD. It's a part of them and changing something that's a part of them is only necessary if required. At least this is what my ADHD husband has said.
I know this sounds harsh. While venting here is encouraged, there comes a moment when you have to DO something. I know where you are coming from. My hubby and I were on the brink. His ADHD ruled the roost. He said he would go to counseling, but never followed through. We lived separately but his ADHD never seemed to improve. We would fight weekly about the status of our marriage. His inability to move back in and work on things. When we did meet up, I would feel dead. I would look at him and not feel much of anything. I finally had a enough and a week before Thanksgiving I told him I was going to file for a legal separation. Even then, I still didn't want a divorce. I believed that maybe, just maybe something could change (I'm a hopeless romantic). Deep down I still loved him, and I mourned for the lost good times, and there was a part of me that still wanted a functional marriage, but it was looking impossible. He begged me to seek counseling and we did. Over a year later, we're living together again and he's managing. While not on meds, he has learned to cope with the ADHD and I've learned to be more forgiving. I used to look at him in terms of "it's the ADHD" and "if he would take his meds, he would be the man I need". After several heart rending conversations with him, I realized what the meds did to him and what my insistence that he take them conveyed to him. It said, "I can't accept you the way you are, so take some meds to make yourself better for me." What kind of relationship is that? After I figured that out, he began to work even harder to focus and do things without the aid of the meds. He's aware now when he's having a ADHD day or moment or whatever. Our biggest issues right now are trust issues (we're still rebuilding) and the fact that he can't get steady work (he tries...he gets interviews...but no one is buying) which of course leads to an issue that all couples face...money. But I love him. Most days, I love him more than ever. Some days, I question whether I truly know him (there are some other issues at play regarding his childhood) but when I come out of my funk, I don't regret being with him.
I never like to counsel anyone to leave a marriage. But if you think you've checked out permanently, that there is no hope for your marriage, then you need to go. Cut the cord and let him stand on his own two feet. You sticking around isn't doing him any favors. And honestly, maybe, just maybe, there are people out there that each of you would be better with. Everyone has a match, you know? But if there is a part of you that still loves him and wants to be with him, get some help. Don't wait. As counseling goes along, your friendship will rebuild, your love for him will be reignited. Trust me on that one.
If your husband has hurt you so much that you won't consider counselling and want him to wait it out while you withhold any kind of love and affection and refuse to actively tr to put things on better footing- it may be time to walk. You aren't doing him favours by sticking around if you don't love him at all. The way you dissected his text and trashed every single thing he said- seeing the worst in everything- is heartbreaking. I understand you are venting... But I feel for your husband too. I also understand how impossible it is for him to leave things alone in the state they are in. i would probably be similar in the face of similar treatment.
Good luck to you. I understand thing have been very hard and you've been pushed to your limits... But if things have gotten beyond repair- hanging in limbo is sure to bring out the wort in everyone. So I would think hard... Can you dig deep and go to counselling and try one more time with an open mind and heart? If not... I think it's pretty crappy to stay and keep rebuking your husband who seems to sincerely want to work on things.
I'm with you on this one. As the saying goes, "money changes everything."
Also, I know how it feels to have a spouse say, "Come to counseling," when I know that means my spouse is trying yet another way to deflect and avoid taking responsibility for his own issues.
It really hurts to be told I'm mean or selfish for staying. There is absolutely nothing mean or selfish about what I'm doing, and I know that. Mean and selfish to me would be leaving him now. Why can't I just leave him with money in the bank and a plan? He'll most likely kill himself if I go now. How is that nicer of me? This is a unique situation. If it was cut and dry, I would have left awhile back. I vent here so that I don't vent on him. I'm very far from home too, spent the last 2.5 yrs in a foreign country with an adhd husband. I think I've been a trooper to stay this long. The internet, conversing with people who understand, is the only support system I've got.
I appreciate the kind words and the truthful ones, but sometimes different situations call for different actions. I can't, with a clear conscience, leave him right now. As much as it would take a huge load off, I just can't. Now, if he told me to leave, that would make it easier. If I'm able to save up my own "leaving" money soon AND save up some money for him, I'll cut the cord early. It is just not feasible right now. It really is not. I thought I explained that in the original post, but some only see how cruel I am for not loving him anymore. Who do you think jeopardized that love? Well, it wasn't me.
... I just think that staying for 9 more months in the situation is pretty toxic. For everyone. Especially your child. I don't know if there is a better option, maybe not.
Certainly no one else can walk in your shoes... But 9 months is a very long time... If for that whole period he is holding out hope and you are hardened against any reconciliation that is a recipe for 9 terrible terrible months.
9 months is ideal. I stated that I'll leave sooner if we both have saved money to fall back on. I want out badly, but not bad enough to leave us both penniless.
I think it is quite kind of you to be trying to take his situation into consideration. I would just encourage you to think outside of the box on addressing those concerns. Theoretically you don't have to move home immediately. Could take half the money and find a cheap place to live until you save the rest to move. Paying your share of joint debts. And he get a roommate. I totally get why it's a heck of a lot simpler to stay. He probably helps reduce child care costs as well.
So I wonder if there is maybe a better way to deal with him while staying. 10 more months means 20ish more of these incidents. Ugh. Maybe write up a separation agreement with a move out date, or a roommate agreement so that he has to face reality a bit clearer. Maybe split up chores, finances so that he's learning to be more independent. Or perhaps you could even go to a counseling session with him, agreeing up front that the point of the session is to devise a way to deal with the situation of living together as roommates with the goal of an amicable split when finances make it feasible.
Just ideas. There is no ideal way to dissolve a relationship. Each is unique. Good luck.
Thanks, but the last thing I want is another house to pay rent & bills on, especially when I don't like it here. I don't speak Spanish, so jobs are harder to find and the pay isn't great either.
I'll stay with my plan until he forces me to leave or I'm better able. The more time I sit here and bear the guilt and fights, the more time passes towards his getting out and money getting saved. I'll know when the time is right. I'm not a saint. I just can't bear leaving someone broke with so much dang debt. I still have my old job back home. They are always hiring and I'm tight with the boss. Still, I'm looking to finish college too. I have friends that will take me, but I have two dogs and would prefer just grabbing my own home right away.
Appreciate the ideas from everyone. Perhaps I'll use one or more of them.
Empathizing with you I generally agree, there are practical considerations to be made. The reason I suggested leaving has more to do with the pretense of hope, but if it can be made clear that there is none I don't necessarily disagree with you.
Sympathizing with your husband I recoil from the absolute agony of that situation. I'm not even sure which is worse, going on thinking that you can work on it, or knowing it is done and you're just in a holding pattern. Even if our actions constitute a chainsaw to the bonds of the relationship, in the end our head comes out of the sand and we are left clutching the severed connections of love that was always felt but seldom expressed.
Having the false hope is definitely easier to imagine, but it is easy because of the inattention/avoidance coping mechanism. It sounds like you have done a good deal of indicating your seriousness, and the only mean or selfish thing you could do is fail to make it as perfectly clear as he can possibly bear to comprehend. If my wife came to me with that message I don't think I could accept it as an absolute. I would so want to try every hail mary possible, and I expect he will want to do the same. If I could be absolutely convinced that it was over I'd tell her to leave. 9 months of that kind of despair would probably destroy me.
I was in a 4-year relationship and we lived together in an apartment. It took us two weeks just to have the breakup discussion because neither of us really wanted to lose the bond (And I'm pretty sure we didn't physically leave the apartment that entire time). Those two weeks were some of the darkest days I can remember. Incidentally that break up was due to my untreated ADHD and untreated depression, and because my memory doesn't go back to this subject very often, I realize just now that I've done this dance before. Ton...of...bricks. I think I probably just found the reason why considering your situation ignites my lizard brain, and why I have such a strong reaction to loss of this kind.
In their brains, they have learned to cope with the ADHD. It's a part of them and changing something that's a part of them is only necessary if required.
Very astute and I believe this is correct with all the ADDers I know. They have been on a difficult road with no direction but to cope in ways they know how for them and won't go back to a place where they were before they gave themselves their own tools to cope. So our words asking them with our need (our pain) for them to change, does not outway their need to cope. so discussions toward them changing are pointless.
I'm seeing some split opinions about how to proceed for the two of you...don't know if my thoughts will help or not, but here goes -
Each of you needs to work on your parts of the relationship separately, not together. HIS job needs to be to get the ADHD issues managed so that he can be a more reliable partner (for you or anyone else in the future...but let's assume you right now). You can't do this for him, and his work on his reliability is, essentially, unrelated to any type of relationship you have with him. He alone controls it.
You have stepped away from the relationship as a survival tactic (it sounds) but I would urge you to try to find ways to not add to his pain. Some sort of admission that while you love him you need to distance yourself temporarily while he does his own work, and as empathetic and warm a stance as you can provide. In other words, without having sex or whatever goes over your boundaries, try to reach out to him in a way that helps him understand that it is not HIM that you are rejecting, but rather his actions - and those actions are changable, but only by him.
Your desire to help him keep a roof over his head is admirable...I'm more concerned about what seems to be a power imbalance - in this case you have all the power and he has none. This is in part due to his ADHD, but also to how the two of you function together. If you are more empathetic towards him you also give him back some of his power (as well as, possibly, hope that may help him move forward more productively and seek the help he needs.) It' a delicate balancing act.
If you are looking for resources, you might consider my seminar, though that would require reengagement that you may not be willing to take on right now (or may not have the energy to take on!) In any event - as you are committed to staying, I urge you to look for a way to interact which does not amount to one long-lasting rejection of him.
Several times I had said to my ADHD spouse, "If you love me let me know. If you don't, then let me go."
Now, years later, he has stated several times in the recent past weeks he wants to leave, "Because he is making me so unhappy, and he doesn't want to hurt me anymore."
That is just so confusing. I really am at the point where I do want him to be happy. I feel stronger and stronger he won't achieve that being married to me. I say that mostly because I no longer want a parent/child relationship with him. I no longer want to do everything his way and give up myself just so he can be happy.
I really have no darn clue how to resolve a conflict when he vehemently wants one thing and I want the other. I just cannot rationalize why he believes I have to give in again, just because he is getting angrier by the minute. Actually, I DO know - - because I have done it for most of our marriage.
I believe when you know better, you do better. I know a partnership/relationship is happy when both partners get their needs met. I was meeting all his, and denying all mine. I won't be nasty - nor vindictive, but I am stubborn. I'm tired of running on an empty tank.
And so what if I have great business sense? Why do I have to be timid and shy and not say anything - because it makes him feel inadequate? How much walking around on egg shells can a person do just so they don't hurt a fragile ego? It can't be both ways, I take care of all the finances, he never looks at them, and I keep my mouth shut while he does whatever whenever.
I think our lives are enmeshed way too much. I really think it would be beneficial to separate our finances, and he can find someone else to administrate his business. The Catch 22 is, I balk at the idea of thinking it is my responsibility to "fix" our 56K dollars of debt - even thought the financial decision he made were ones I voted against. So if he denied my financial wisdom, and it took the business deeper into debt, what part is my responsibility?
I do want to be a good wife. I want to be a good person, too. That is what I am doing.
P.S. I did all I could to keep our marriage together. Crazy. I have told him if he really wants to go, he probably should go. He does like to say that counselors have told him we should be divorced.
I get the idea of irreconcilable differences. He insists that is not it at all. It is becasuse the counselors feel so bad for him because he has such a harsh, inconsiderate wife. So be it. I can live with that. I know better.
Good people get divorced. Irreconcilable differences certainly apply to ADHD effected marriages. Not all, but many which you see the evidence of here. Ok I might not go around telling people the issue that split you up was loaning out the RV, though it might be a good chapter in a memoir. Unfortunately the being married thing means you get to share the bad decisions even when you vote against them. It is possible that you can negotiate that he take the debt with him. I find it odd that he says he wants to leave in order to stop your pain. Seems he could alleviate your pain by dropping the RV issue, among other things. You also say you don't want him to hurt, but you don't say whether you want to split. What is it that you want your life to look like? Can you get there with him?
Being who I am seems to hurt him. I do not want a separation nor a divorce.
I did not anticipate trying to find a career at 50+ years of age. I am in college. I am not 25 anymore. I am at peace with me, warts and all. I am so ready to enjoy life. I anticipate having grandchildren in the next 5 years or so! I can't wait!!! There is so much joy out there to be had!
Hearing that he is choosing to leave to end my pain is weird. I am actually not in pain. I am resolved. I am willing to be patient. I get frustrated beyond all means! When he tries to start an argument, I refuse to participate. The issue gets down to the fact that he does not see his negative ADHD behaviors cause any problem. Does it sound judgmental to say it sorta goes with his "Woe is me" ""Everyone is against me" "Everyone uses me" demeanor? In his opinion, the problems with our relationship all fall on me. It takes 2.
He is sad, depressed, has slowly alienated himself from most of his friends, judges people unmercifully while overlooking his own issues. His family of origin is fractured. Most of them don't get along with each other. they all want to tell each other what to do and how to live.
I really wish he would get help for HIMSELF. I really wish he valued himself enough to want to be the best he can be.
Our life was always about power-struggles. I am weary of those. As you can see with the RV, it still gets into a power struggle. I just can't get a grip on "You can't lend out the RV because I don't want you to." If I had some experiences of give-and-take, it would be different. I honestly cannot think of ONE single time - on a major issue - where he differed to me. Very sad. Causes me to feel controlled and taken advantage of.
I am happy to bless my nephew and his family by letting them us the RV for a weekend. They are camping - - - - like 5 miles from our house!!!!!! Sheesh. They are not going on a cross country trip.
You sound like you are really coming into your own. You say you are exhausted, but I tend to read so much strength and positivity from your posts. If my husband could, I bet he would leave. His unhappiness came about when I finally said "ENOUGH!"
Keep doing what you are doing and move forward with your ideas. They are good ones;)
I have no advice, and even if I tried to give any I'm probably the last person you should listen to but like many posters here I felt such a strong reaction to your post I had to put in my 2 cents....
Your husband reminds me of how I was before I knew what ADHD really was and before I got meds/help.
There is no way this is good for him. (or you) I'm not saying I think you need to leave him penniless etc. but it cannot go on like this. I know it makes no sense to a normal person but there is no way he can STOP talking or thinking about what's wrong. He's stuck in a loop of the same horror movie playing over and over. In the darkest time of my marriage I panicked at anything remotely negative my husband might say. He was cold and wouldn't look at me. Wouldn't talk to me. Said things that made me look and feel dumb. So, yes: Probably the only thing your husband heard from that conversation was the 'You're and idiot" part, and it's most likely playing over and over in his head and it gets louder and louder. For me, it got to the point where I would have panic attacks everywhere, without any notice. I could be in a grocery store, or at work... I didn't know what was happening to me, thought I was sick, thought maybe I was having a heart attack. I didn't even know what a panic attack was - I just believed with absolute certainty that I was about to die.
<<I'm always on pins and needles with you. (this is not true. I stopped making him feel bad about things months ago. It's his own guilt that causes this reaction when I gently remind him that he has forgotten something or one of his ideas isn't the smartest option)>>
You can tell someone what to do and you can tell someone how you feel. But you cannot tell another person how HE feels. There wasn't a judgement in that sentence that I can see. He was just saying how he feels. He has forgotten something, and disappointed you. Again. and again. aaaand again. And is thus still on those pins and needles. No... it's not your fault he feels this way. It's just how he feels.
I understand how angry you must be, and I have to say, if anyone forced me into sex, that would be a deal breaker.
If he could get on the meds/get counseling for himself (I agree with the other poster who said there seems to be no point in both of you seeing a counselor together) he could get the symptoms under control, he could be easier to live with and he could be made to understand there is no hope of reconciliation. Then you can both think logically and rationally about how to separate in the most cost-effective way and calmly sort out some kind of custody agreement so that he can see your son once you are on separate coasts.
However - if things get worse and are absolutely unbearable, it might be worth trying to find out if there is access to any kind of military resources for temporary housing for him or something. Dunno. Once again... I'm really the last person to offer any advice!
Thank you for that. Very well said and put into a different perspective. Now that leaving is on the table, having him move into the barracks would be an excellent idea. Our landlord is our cousin, so breaking the lease should be rather simple.
I'm cold intimately, but not in any other ways. I try to engage him in conversation, listen, and keep a positive vibe going. But, yes, I do lightly complain when he has forgotten something important. When he says "huh, what did you say?" for the 100th time, I can't easily conceal my disappointment. I often forget how he is and talk and talk, then get rudely reminded that he has no memory for most of what I say. Even though things are bad, I don't let it affect my mood anymore. Disengaging from the relationship made that possible. It's sad how that works. Maybe I should go to counseling so that adhd can be better explained to me. It would be hard now with two jobs. I work til 2am and need to nap when my son does. I honestly don't want to deal with adult adhd for the rest of my life. Fingers crossed my son doesn't have it.
We talked today. He cried some and is very forlorn, but he thanked me for staying. He does see how rough it might be if I leave right this minute. He is thinking about getting out more and going on his big bike trip. He likes to cancel that trip in his mind during pity parties, but I always encourage him to go. He brought up divorce, splitting of belongings, tattoo removal, and me going out with men. I've told him before and I told him again that I'm in no hurry to divorce, will split fairly when the time comes, don't see any reason to remove my tattoo, and most definitely won't be dating while we're under the same roof. I hope he'll eventually believe me and get it off the current "loop". He is very negative minded. That has always bothered me because I am super positive. Even through this.
The sex thing was horrific. It truly is the big reason I don't want to reconcile. Constant badgering for sex or getting him off, all through and well after a VERY difficult pregnancy that ended with nerve damage and a broken tailbone. Sex always coming before my feelings or our child. I never want sex with him again, and if I ever did it would be few and far between, and always on my terms, so any other kind of reconciliation would be pointless.
Somehow I missed the forced sex thing. While I might have some interest in rougher roleplay, that is just unacceptable. I'm surprised at your willingness to cohabitate and in that light it seems extremely charitable. Some things in my book are just unforgettable, if not unforgivable.
It wasn't exactly forced, but it was pushed mercilessly. I felt it my wifely duty to accommodate him as often as I could. Look around on the internet, there are women telling other women and of course, men telling women that it IS their duty. I'm glad to take the power over my own body back.
I complained a lot, but it fell on mostly deaf ears. It continued through my devastating 2 months of bed rest, until he deployed 6 mo later (I actually looked forward to that 11 mo hiatus), and started back as soon as he got home. I was "stuck" in Europe with him and wanted to keep my marriage. He didn't "get it" until I sat him down and told him I felt treated like a blow up doll and that all sex was ending. It was then that I offered him a one-sided open marriage, but he has refused. I stopped wanting any intimacy because he taught me that anything (hugs, kisses, anything...) always led to him pushing for sex. And to top it off, he was getting worse and worse at it.
I think now he might go out looking. He's trying to come to terms with our situation. I can only hope he meets a really nice girl or two or even just some fun ones to bring back some of his self esteem.
"I stopped wanting any intimacy because he taught me that anything (hugs, kisses, anything...) always led to him pushing for sex."
I expect this is a true statement of my wife's. Close to home. One of the things she frequently says is, "you're never just sweet." I have made real efforts in the past month or two to take it easy and enjoy lying next to each other. I think she has noticed and it has improved to the point where the comment about being sweet is usually said playfully/jokingly. Several times a day we will be moving about the house and she smacks my butt as I pass by, and I've taken to telling her she can't just be sweet. Nevertheless the quote above is totally true of our close interaction. It has usually been several weeks since the last time having sex, and we're lying there skin-on-skin. It is hard to resist. I guess it is a vicious cycle. I'm not one to just grope her and want to go at it instantly, I'm trying to start a sexual encounter with massage, kissing, and foreplay (if she'd ever go for that), but my mind is definitely in a dirty place.
Any talk of meeting my needs as a male is insulting, as if women just tithe their vaginas out of consideration/pity, going against their natural lack of sex drive. I call BS on that, and guilt tripping her into laying me would only lead to an extremely dissatisfying lay. In better years her dainty little female libido could give me a run for my money, shattering that stereotype. She denies my advance, end of attempt. Since there has been so much denial the past year or so, there are very few advances.
I think it would help you (both) tremendously to learn as much as you can about ADHD for two reasons: 1) Because you have a child together, you will never totally be 'rid' of your husband. Your dealings/negotiations with him will go much more smoothly if he has a handle on his symptoms and you can get to a place where you can truly believe that he has some value. 2) Your son has a 50% chance of being ADHD as well. If he is it would be a HUGE benefit to know as soon as possible so that he can learn how to cope. He can avoid a lifetime of underachievement, disappointment & low self-esteem. His future spouse will be spared what you're going through now.
It's annoying for you: From your perspective you can see the future, you can make plans. His talk of canceling the trip, removing a tattoo etc. isn't a 'pity party.' It's fear. He's not thinking of canceling because he's lazy or whiny. He's afraid. He cannot MAKE plans. He cannot SEE the future. He cannot see next week. I've been there. It's really ugly. And it's still a struggle to try to 'get' what everyone else is talking about most of the time. But I've been getting better and I know I've changed. The undeniable proof is the fact that I am now really irritated by the behavior of undiagnosed, untreated ADDers.
Maybe there's ADHD counseling or a support group on his base?
I know you've done enough 'mothering' and you don't like him at all right now but ironically, some research (y'know, in all that spare time you've got!) and as much empathy as you can handle would go a long way towards finally being free of him.
does this make any sense or am I just ADD-ing out (as my husband calls it)???
Nah, girl, you give really, really sound advice with a smidge of needed humor;) And it is clear you understand where we are both coming from. Thank you so much!!!
If I can add my two cents, my separated STBX and I have children and we still deal with each other on a regular basis. And he still has (untreated) ADHD. So despite the fact that this forum led me to work through what was going on and ultimately my decision was to leave, it also helped me understand his ADHD much better. And even be able to explain some things to my children, which, as they get older, I often need to do.
Congrats on the job, Lauren. Hang in there. And I agree--make sure you get some sleep!
Lauren, you sound like a pretty strong person. I know that my spouse was bewildered and couldn't believe it when the "switch" went off one day, but suddenly, as ellamenno phrases it, I just didn't like him very much any more. I cared about him as a person, but the desire to ever reconnect was gone. He accused me of "holding a grudge," but honestly, that was the moment that the anger evaporated. I wasn't mad.
We are separated now--I left about 6 months ago. Mine often brings up me getting remarried, which, trust me, is the furthest thing from my mind. I am disengaged, too. If he needs help up to a certain point, I offer, but in the way that I would be friendly or kind to another human being and the father of my children. If nothing else, my children see my example and I know this will affect them growing up.
I hope you don't mind me working something out here: The sex thing for me was about the worst thing that I have ever experienced, and at the time I couldn't imagine anyone else going through the same thing. I don't know if I could explain it, but Lauren, you did a pretty good job. Mine was unrelenting about it--talked about wanting it constantly, asked me for it around the clock. First thing in the morning, as I would be racing around to take care of our children, get ready for work, doing dishes, stressed as he sat there, "Are we going to do it tonight?" Rather than being addicted or something, it seemed just obsessive, and probably was on his part--this with what I now know is ADHD but at the time seemed like him simply acting like kind of a pig: no filter and no mechanism to interpret how I felt even though I think I was remarkably clear. I still remember the pressure I felt, all the time, the abrupt and intense language he would choose to use (I am not a prude, but anything loving or romantic went out the window after the first two years). Example: I told him twenty times that I didn't like it when he crawled into bed and immediately stuck his hand up my shirt. Literally, it had to be twenty times. I would tell him I didn't like it and it felt too rough and upset me, and to stop it, and I would hop up and leave the room. The next time he did the same thing, and kind of giggled like he was being playful and funny, I finally screamed at him and told him never, ever, ever to do it again and did he freaking hear me now? I don't know what was going on---did he not remember from time to time? Did he think he was going to get a different response and I would swoon or think it was cute?
This was probably one of the two deciding factors that contributed to me leaving. I had to shut down because it was so painful that he did not seem to hear or care how I felt. The period after giving birth was the worst. ADHD probably explains some of it, but it was not ok for me and I feel scarred by it to this day. It co-mingled with some other things, but it got to the point that I just never wanted sex with him, ever again, and just wanted him to leave me alone.
Sounds like we have a good bit in common. Wish it wasn't this lol. Thank you for showing me that I'm not alone. This forum and the yahoo group help tremendously. My retreat from my husband was slow and he had many, many warnings. When he said that "I'd go the extra mile for you", I knew he couldn't do it. Maybe with adhd meds, but even the non adhd spouses that decide to stay have a hard time of it, at times. I don't want that future.
My husband's porn/masterbation addiction led to a premature ejac problem. Not only was I constantly nagged for it, but it was incredibly unfulfilling. He started becoming awkward at foreplay too. I was like "what happened to the man I married?". I was so careful not to marry someone not right for me, then went and married HIM thinking I hit the jackpot:( I am very scarred from his behavior and he knows it. Out of all my relationships, he was the first to act like that. I always envisioned a husband that would nurture his pregnant wife. Mine was selfish, thoughtless, sometimes mean, and then openly jealous of the baby.
Mine asked me to be discreet about dating. I already told him I wasn't interested nor do I have the time. If I'm off work, I want HIM to go out. He's the one hurting over this. I got over my hurt late last year.
I love my job so far. First night and I made $60 in tips. She asked me to come tomorrow, but I already work at my other job. I can't wait to start piling money in the bank and paying off debt.
These characteristics with intimacy are so similar to my experiences, it is spooky.
**November 11, 2014 I chose to edit out this information. It would be hurtful to my spouse f he ever read it. I needed it out there last year when I posted it - today I need it back to the privacy of my own mind.**
I never thought I'd talk about this with anyone, either--I am usually pretty private and it was so upsetting, I didn't know how to handle it. It is doing me a world of good to be assured that I am not the only one. The grabbing--what was that about?!? It didn't start until we had been together for a while. Our sex life was strained, I wasn't enjoying it, I was telling him this and trying to work on it (including the ever-present urging to try couples counseling, which he refused). He would get defensive and say that if he didn't follow a script, then I wasn't happy, which wasn't true. I just wanted some sensitivity and some honest connection. At any rate, the grabbing! I actually started avoiding walking up the stairs in front of him because of the number of times he would grab my rear or put his hand up the back of my skirt. It was always so out of nowhere, and at such a level of intensity. It upset me, and I told him how much I didn't like it, how I felt a little like I was being attacked and I asked him to stop it. And it was like it didn't register or he didn't remember, or what I concluded at the time: he didn't care that I didn't like it. I am not sure what he expected to happen--like I would swoon and be swept off my feet? It was so painful to think a man would treat his wife and the mother of his children this way.
It's just that he was so incredibly disconnected from how I was feeling or reacting. I would have thought that because it was so important to him, and I told him that it would be nice to hear "I love you" or be told I was beautiful to him or something verbal, that he could make some sort of effort to hear me and try it. But he couldn't. Maybe this doesn't have anything to do with ADHD at all, I don't know...At any rate, I got so shut down after a while, I just didn't want to have anything to do with him. Pretty sad, actually.
I think the probability is your son's life will have a good outcome if he is found to have an ADHD wired brain.
When I compare the ADHD affect on our son - who was diagnosed at 8 years old - versus my spouse who was diagnosed at 53 - the difference is staggering. Even in family counseling, my son was asked to share with his Dad how he learned to deal with situations.
ADHD just 'is.' It was not a defect. It was not something wrong. It was not something that had to be fixed. Hopefully 15 years later, the public school system has evolved - and if not, you will have an important job in being your son's biggest support system.
I don't really know what the possibilities are for these people who are diagnosed so much later in life. I only am living with, and am exposed to one.
What a mess
Submitted by ShelleyNW on
Hello. I feel for the both of you. It's kind of you to consider his position if you leave but perhaps it's not the healthiest. In a way it is still mothering him. He can probably get a roommate to help with the bills, which might give him an opportunity to learn how to be functional while he still has a paycheck. It won't be easy for him no matter the timing. I find it somewhat alarming that his son got so little attention in his text. Clearly he was having a rant and wasn't going to let a lack of audience get in the way. Classic impulse out of control. Good luck.
I can't tell you how
Submitted by jackrungh on
I can't tell you how unnerving it is to read this. I guess I see too much similarity in the way of promising to be better and losing that focus. Lost love as a concept just gnaws at me, and the idea that any possible thread of marital bond is gone. I really wish you the best and I think that probably includes an orderly separation (As Shelley said, perhaps as orderly as possible without playing the roommate game). It is just so close to home as a potential future (the absolute worst fear) that the instant I stop writing this I'll have to put the thoughts away and pay attention to a work project. Thinking about your situation is the emotional equivalent of the first steps out of the bomb shelter after nuclear weapons have destroyed all the world.
If I leave now, not only do I
Submitted by lauren07 on
If I leave now, not only do I leave him stranded here alone, but I have to take all the money. I'll be getting another PT job soon.
Sorry, Jack:(
sorry
Submitted by lynninny on
I am sorry, Lauren--I have seen a lot of similarities in my previous situation and many of your posts. I understand that your spouse is upset and feeling insecure, but I know there is nothing worse than needing some space and having someone kind of "on" you. His text reminds me of the communication from my STBX, who would go on long tirades and to this day leaves me extremely long phone messages without much filter.
It sounds like you have kind of made an emotional break and that's understandable. (I experienced many of the same things you have). It is laudable that you feel obligated to stay and take care of him, and if you think your marriage is salvageable, then by all means, maybe you should and see if he can get treated or work on things. Otherwise, it sounds like the situation is very painful for your spouse and he may not be able to handle it and you may be in for more of the same if you stay. You are on completely different pages.
I don't know how to handle the intrusive, emotional, long texts at work (mine decided to call me and ask if I was seriously never coming back and why and didn't I love him any more when I was at work one day--let's just say the place I work is pretty public and there are children around) because for me, ignoring them just made it worse. I finally had to tell him I could not talk to him any more at all if he didn't cool it. I am thinking of you and best of luck to you.
Poop or get off the pot. I
Submitted by dazedandconfused on
Poop or get off the pot. I know that's crude but it is what it is.
If you have no interest in saving your marriage, it's cruel for you to stay simply because you think he won't be able to function without you. That's not the type of life you need to live and it's not the type of life he needs to be caught in.
If he wants to go to marriage counseling, I think you should consider it. This concept of "we need to rebuild our friendship" will not happen under the current circumstances and honestly, I can't blame him for freaking out. He sounds a lot like me and I don't even have ADHD! Some people can't cope with the uncertainty of a situation. Has it ever occurred to you that he can't invest himself in improving his ADHD if he thinks you're just going to leave. They don't think like us. It sounds ludicrous, we think that they should want to change or do better for themselves, but they don't think that way. In their brains, they have learned to cope with the ADHD. It's a part of them and changing something that's a part of them is only necessary if required. At least this is what my ADHD husband has said.
I know this sounds harsh. While venting here is encouraged, there comes a moment when you have to DO something. I know where you are coming from. My hubby and I were on the brink. His ADHD ruled the roost. He said he would go to counseling, but never followed through. We lived separately but his ADHD never seemed to improve. We would fight weekly about the status of our marriage. His inability to move back in and work on things. When we did meet up, I would feel dead. I would look at him and not feel much of anything. I finally had a enough and a week before Thanksgiving I told him I was going to file for a legal separation. Even then, I still didn't want a divorce. I believed that maybe, just maybe something could change (I'm a hopeless romantic). Deep down I still loved him, and I mourned for the lost good times, and there was a part of me that still wanted a functional marriage, but it was looking impossible. He begged me to seek counseling and we did. Over a year later, we're living together again and he's managing. While not on meds, he has learned to cope with the ADHD and I've learned to be more forgiving. I used to look at him in terms of "it's the ADHD" and "if he would take his meds, he would be the man I need". After several heart rending conversations with him, I realized what the meds did to him and what my insistence that he take them conveyed to him. It said, "I can't accept you the way you are, so take some meds to make yourself better for me." What kind of relationship is that? After I figured that out, he began to work even harder to focus and do things without the aid of the meds. He's aware now when he's having a ADHD day or moment or whatever. Our biggest issues right now are trust issues (we're still rebuilding) and the fact that he can't get steady work (he tries...he gets interviews...but no one is buying) which of course leads to an issue that all couples face...money. But I love him. Most days, I love him more than ever. Some days, I question whether I truly know him (there are some other issues at play regarding his childhood) but when I come out of my funk, I don't regret being with him.
I never like to counsel anyone to leave a marriage. But if you think you've checked out permanently, that there is no hope for your marriage, then you need to go. Cut the cord and let him stand on his own two feet. You sticking around isn't doing him any favors. And honestly, maybe, just maybe, there are people out there that each of you would be better with. Everyone has a match, you know? But if there is a part of you that still loves him and wants to be with him, get some help. Don't wait. As counseling goes along, your friendship will rebuild, your love for him will be reignited. Trust me on that one.
Best of luck to you.
I agree
Submitted by smilingagain on
I have to say that I agree.
If your husband has hurt you so much that you won't consider counselling and want him to wait it out while you withhold any kind of love and affection and refuse to actively tr to put things on better footing- it may be time to walk. You aren't doing him favours by sticking around if you don't love him at all. The way you dissected his text and trashed every single thing he said- seeing the worst in everything- is heartbreaking. I understand you are venting... But I feel for your husband too. I also understand how impossible it is for him to leave things alone in the state they are in. i would probably be similar in the face of similar treatment.
Good luck to you. I understand thing have been very hard and you've been pushed to your limits... But if things have gotten beyond repair- hanging in limbo is sure to bring out the wort in everyone. So I would think hard... Can you dig deep and go to counselling and try one more time with an open mind and heart? If not... I think it's pretty crappy to stay and keep rebuking your husband who seems to sincerely want to work on things.
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Submitted by lauren07 on
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I'm with you on this one. As
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I'm with you on this one. As the saying goes, "money changes everything."
Also, I know how it feels to have a spouse say, "Come to counseling," when I know that means my spouse is trying yet another way to deflect and avoid taking responsibility for his own issues.
Thanks. It really hurts to
Submitted by lauren07 on
Thanks.
It really hurts to be told I'm mean or selfish for staying. There is absolutely nothing mean or selfish about what I'm doing, and I know that. Mean and selfish to me would be leaving him now. Why can't I just leave him with money in the bank and a plan? He'll most likely kill himself if I go now. How is that nicer of me? This is a unique situation. If it was cut and dry, I would have left awhile back. I vent here so that I don't vent on him. I'm very far from home too, spent the last 2.5 yrs in a foreign country with an adhd husband. I think I've been a trooper to stay this long. The internet, conversing with people who understand, is the only support system I've got.
I appreciate the kind words and the truthful ones, but sometimes different situations call for different actions. I can't, with a clear conscience, leave him right now. As much as it would take a huge load off, I just can't. Now, if he told me to leave, that would make it easier. If I'm able to save up my own "leaving" money soon AND save up some money for him, I'll cut the cord early. It is just not feasible right now. It really is not. I thought I explained that in the original post, but some only see how cruel I am for not loving him anymore. Who do you think jeopardized that love? Well, it wasn't me.
I don't think you are mean and selfish
Submitted by smilingagain on
... I just think that staying for 9 more months in the situation is pretty toxic. For everyone. Especially your child. I don't know if there is a better option, maybe not.
Certainly no one else can walk in your shoes... But 9 months is a very long time... If for that whole period he is holding out hope and you are hardened against any reconciliation that is a recipe for 9 terrible terrible months.
I wish you the best.
9 months is ideal. I stated
Submitted by lauren07 on
9 months is ideal. I stated that I'll leave sooner if we both have saved money to fall back on. I want out badly, but not bad enough to leave us both penniless.
Advice is easier to give than to live
Submitted by ShelleyNW on
I think it is quite kind of you to be trying to take his situation into consideration. I would just encourage you to think outside of the box on addressing those concerns. Theoretically you don't have to move home immediately. Could take half the money and find a cheap place to live until you save the rest to move. Paying your share of joint debts. And he get a roommate. I totally get why it's a heck of a lot simpler to stay. He probably helps reduce child care costs as well.
So I wonder if there is maybe a better way to deal with him while staying. 10 more months means 20ish more of these incidents. Ugh. Maybe write up a separation agreement with a move out date, or a roommate agreement so that he has to face reality a bit clearer. Maybe split up chores, finances so that he's learning to be more independent. Or perhaps you could even go to a counseling session with him, agreeing up front that the point of the session is to devise a way to deal with the situation of living together as roommates with the goal of an amicable split when finances make it feasible.
Just ideas. There is no ideal way to dissolve a relationship. Each is unique. Good luck.
Thanks, but the last thing I
Submitted by lauren07 on
Thanks, but the last thing I want is another house to pay rent & bills on, especially when I don't like it here. I don't speak Spanish, so jobs are harder to find and the pay isn't great either.
I'll stay with my plan until he forces me to leave or I'm better able. The more time I sit here and bear the guilt and fights, the more time passes towards his getting out and money getting saved. I'll know when the time is right. I'm not a saint. I just can't bear leaving someone broke with so much dang debt. I still have my old job back home. They are always hiring and I'm tight with the boss. Still, I'm looking to finish college too. I have friends that will take me, but I have two dogs and would prefer just grabbing my own home right away.
Appreciate the ideas from everyone. Perhaps I'll use one or more of them.
Headed out soon to grab my 2nd part time job.
Empathizing with you I
Submitted by jackrungh on
Empathizing with you I generally agree, there are practical considerations to be made. The reason I suggested leaving has more to do with the pretense of hope, but if it can be made clear that there is none I don't necessarily disagree with you.
Sympathizing with your husband I recoil from the absolute agony of that situation. I'm not even sure which is worse, going on thinking that you can work on it, or knowing it is done and you're just in a holding pattern. Even if our actions constitute a chainsaw to the bonds of the relationship, in the end our head comes out of the sand and we are left clutching the severed connections of love that was always felt but seldom expressed.
Having the false hope is definitely easier to imagine, but it is easy because of the inattention/avoidance coping mechanism. It sounds like you have done a good deal of indicating your seriousness, and the only mean or selfish thing you could do is fail to make it as perfectly clear as he can possibly bear to comprehend. If my wife came to me with that message I don't think I could accept it as an absolute. I would so want to try every hail mary possible, and I expect he will want to do the same. If I could be absolutely convinced that it was over I'd tell her to leave. 9 months of that kind of despair would probably destroy me.
I was in a 4-year relationship and we lived together in an apartment. It took us two weeks just to have the breakup discussion because neither of us really wanted to lose the bond (And I'm pretty sure we didn't physically leave the apartment that entire time). Those two weeks were some of the darkest days I can remember. Incidentally that break up was due to my untreated ADHD and untreated depression, and because my memory doesn't go back to this subject very often, I realize just now that I've done this dance before. Ton...of...bricks. I think I probably just found the reason why considering your situation ignites my lizard brain, and why I have such a strong reaction to loss of this kind.
In their brains, they have
Submitted by jennalemon on
In their brains, they have learned to cope with the ADHD. It's a part of them and changing something that's a part of them is only necessary if required.
Very astute and I believe this is correct with all the ADDers I know. They have been on a difficult road with no direction but to cope in ways they know how for them and won't go back to a place where they were before they gave themselves their own tools to cope. So our words asking them with our need (our pain) for them to change, does not outway their need to cope. so discussions toward them changing are pointless.
Best way to address this?
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I'm seeing some split opinions about how to proceed for the two of you...don't know if my thoughts will help or not, but here goes -
Each of you needs to work on your parts of the relationship separately, not together. HIS job needs to be to get the ADHD issues managed so that he can be a more reliable partner (for you or anyone else in the future...but let's assume you right now). You can't do this for him, and his work on his reliability is, essentially, unrelated to any type of relationship you have with him. He alone controls it.
You have stepped away from the relationship as a survival tactic (it sounds) but I would urge you to try to find ways to not add to his pain. Some sort of admission that while you love him you need to distance yourself temporarily while he does his own work, and as empathetic and warm a stance as you can provide. In other words, without having sex or whatever goes over your boundaries, try to reach out to him in a way that helps him understand that it is not HIM that you are rejecting, but rather his actions - and those actions are changable, but only by him.
Your desire to help him keep a roof over his head is admirable...I'm more concerned about what seems to be a power imbalance - in this case you have all the power and he has none. This is in part due to his ADHD, but also to how the two of you function together. If you are more empathetic towards him you also give him back some of his power (as well as, possibly, hope that may help him move forward more productively and seek the help he needs.) It' a delicate balancing act.
If you are looking for resources, you might consider my seminar, though that would require reengagement that you may not be willing to take on right now (or may not have the energy to take on!) In any event - as you are committed to staying, I urge you to look for a way to interact which does not amount to one long-lasting rejection of him.
Good luck with it!
Thank you, Melissa. I think
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you, Melissa. I think your advice is good for all of us in ADHD-affected relationships.
Lauren07, I've read through
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Lauren07,
I've read through this whole thread.
I see myself, in your original post.
Several times I had said to my ADHD spouse, "If you love me let me know. If you don't, then let me go."
Now, years later, he has stated several times in the recent past weeks he wants to leave, "Because he is making me so unhappy, and he doesn't want to hurt me anymore."
That is just so confusing. I really am at the point where I do want him to be happy. I feel stronger and stronger he won't achieve that being married to me. I say that mostly because I no longer want a parent/child relationship with him. I no longer want to do everything his way and give up myself just so he can be happy.
I really have no darn clue how to resolve a conflict when he vehemently wants one thing and I want the other. I just cannot rationalize why he believes I have to give in again, just because he is getting angrier by the minute. Actually, I DO know - - because I have done it for most of our marriage.
I believe when you know better, you do better. I know a partnership/relationship is happy when both partners get their needs met. I was meeting all his, and denying all mine. I won't be nasty - nor vindictive, but I am stubborn. I'm tired of running on an empty tank.
And so what if I have great business sense? Why do I have to be timid and shy and not say anything - because it makes him feel inadequate? How much walking around on egg shells can a person do just so they don't hurt a fragile ego? It can't be both ways, I take care of all the finances, he never looks at them, and I keep my mouth shut while he does whatever whenever.
I think our lives are enmeshed way too much. I really think it would be beneficial to separate our finances, and he can find someone else to administrate his business. The Catch 22 is, I balk at the idea of thinking it is my responsibility to "fix" our 56K dollars of debt - even thought the financial decision he made were ones I voted against. So if he denied my financial wisdom, and it took the business deeper into debt, what part is my responsibility?
I do want to be a good wife. I want to be a good person, too. That is what I am doing.
P.S. I did all I could to keep our marriage together. Crazy. I have told him if he really wants to go, he probably should go. He does like to say that counselors have told him we should be divorced.
I get the idea of irreconcilable differences. He insists that is not it at all. It is becasuse the counselors feel so bad for him because he has such a harsh, inconsiderate wife. So be it. I can live with that. I know better.
Irreconcilable Differences
Submitted by ShelleyNW on
Good people get divorced. Irreconcilable differences certainly apply to ADHD effected marriages. Not all, but many which you see the evidence of here. Ok I might not go around telling people the issue that split you up was loaning out the RV, though it might be a good chapter in a memoir. Unfortunately the being married thing means you get to share the bad decisions even when you vote against them. It is possible that you can negotiate that he take the debt with him. I find it odd that he says he wants to leave in order to stop your pain. Seems he could alleviate your pain by dropping the RV issue, among other things. You also say you don't want him to hurt, but you don't say whether you want to split. What is it that you want your life to look like? Can you get there with him?
My answer is no.
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
ShelleyNW,
Being who I am seems to hurt him. I do not want a separation nor a divorce.
I did not anticipate trying to find a career at 50+ years of age. I am in college. I am not 25 anymore. I am at peace with me, warts and all. I am so ready to enjoy life. I anticipate having grandchildren in the next 5 years or so! I can't wait!!! There is so much joy out there to be had!
Hearing that he is choosing to leave to end my pain is weird. I am actually not in pain. I am resolved. I am willing to be patient. I get frustrated beyond all means! When he tries to start an argument, I refuse to participate. The issue gets down to the fact that he does not see his negative ADHD behaviors cause any problem. Does it sound judgmental to say it sorta goes with his "Woe is me" ""Everyone is against me" "Everyone uses me" demeanor? In his opinion, the problems with our relationship all fall on me. It takes 2.
He is sad, depressed, has slowly alienated himself from most of his friends, judges people unmercifully while overlooking his own issues. His family of origin is fractured. Most of them don't get along with each other. they all want to tell each other what to do and how to live.
I really wish he would get help for HIMSELF. I really wish he valued himself enough to want to be the best he can be.
Our life was always about power-struggles. I am weary of those. As you can see with the RV, it still gets into a power struggle. I just can't get a grip on "You can't lend out the RV because I don't want you to." If I had some experiences of give-and-take, it would be different. I honestly cannot think of ONE single time - on a major issue - where he differed to me. Very sad. Causes me to feel controlled and taken advantage of.
I am happy to bless my nephew and his family by letting them us the RV for a weekend. They are camping - - - - like 5 miles from our house!!!!!! Sheesh. They are not going on a cross country trip.
You sound like you are really
Submitted by lauren07 on
You sound like you are really coming into your own. You say you are exhausted, but I tend to read so much strength and positivity from your posts. If my husband could, I bet he would leave. His unhappiness came about when I finally said "ENOUGH!"
Keep doing what you are doing and move forward with your ideas. They are good ones;)
another ADHD female chiming in here...
Submitted by ellamenno on
I have no advice, and even if I tried to give any I'm probably the last person you should listen to but like many posters here I felt such a strong reaction to your post I had to put in my 2 cents....
Your husband reminds me of how I was before I knew what ADHD really was and before I got meds/help.
There is no way this is good for him. (or you) I'm not saying I think you need to leave him penniless etc. but it cannot go on like this. I know it makes no sense to a normal person but there is no way he can STOP talking or thinking about what's wrong. He's stuck in a loop of the same horror movie playing over and over. In the darkest time of my marriage I panicked at anything remotely negative my husband might say. He was cold and wouldn't look at me. Wouldn't talk to me. Said things that made me look and feel dumb. So, yes: Probably the only thing your husband heard from that conversation was the 'You're and idiot" part, and it's most likely playing over and over in his head and it gets louder and louder. For me, it got to the point where I would have panic attacks everywhere, without any notice. I could be in a grocery store, or at work... I didn't know what was happening to me, thought I was sick, thought maybe I was having a heart attack. I didn't even know what a panic attack was - I just believed with absolute certainty that I was about to die.
<<I'm always on pins and needles with you. (this is not true. I stopped making him feel bad about things months ago. It's his own guilt that causes this reaction when I gently remind him that he has forgotten something or one of his ideas isn't the smartest option)>>
You can tell someone what to do and you can tell someone how you feel. But you cannot tell another person how HE feels. There wasn't a judgement in that sentence that I can see. He was just saying how he feels. He has forgotten something, and disappointed you. Again. and again. aaaand again. And is thus still on those pins and needles. No... it's not your fault he feels this way. It's just how he feels.
I understand how angry you must be, and I have to say, if anyone forced me into sex, that would be a deal breaker.
If he could get on the meds/get counseling for himself (I agree with the other poster who said there seems to be no point in both of you seeing a counselor together) he could get the symptoms under control, he could be easier to live with and he could be made to understand there is no hope of reconciliation. Then you can both think logically and rationally about how to separate in the most cost-effective way and calmly sort out some kind of custody agreement so that he can see your son once you are on separate coasts.
However - if things get worse and are absolutely unbearable, it might be worth trying to find out if there is access to any kind of military resources for temporary housing for him or something. Dunno. Once again... I'm really the last person to offer any advice!
Really hope you both can find peace soon.
Ellamenno
Thank you for that. Very well
Submitted by lauren07 on
Thank you for that. Very well said and put into a different perspective. Now that leaving is on the table, having him move into the barracks would be an excellent idea. Our landlord is our cousin, so breaking the lease should be rather simple.
I'm cold intimately, but not in any other ways. I try to engage him in conversation, listen, and keep a positive vibe going. But, yes, I do lightly complain when he has forgotten something important. When he says "huh, what did you say?" for the 100th time, I can't easily conceal my disappointment. I often forget how he is and talk and talk, then get rudely reminded that he has no memory for most of what I say. Even though things are bad, I don't let it affect my mood anymore. Disengaging from the relationship made that possible. It's sad how that works. Maybe I should go to counseling so that adhd can be better explained to me. It would be hard now with two jobs. I work til 2am and need to nap when my son does. I honestly don't want to deal with adult adhd for the rest of my life. Fingers crossed my son doesn't have it.
We talked today. He cried some and is very forlorn, but he thanked me for staying. He does see how rough it might be if I leave right this minute. He is thinking about getting out more and going on his big bike trip. He likes to cancel that trip in his mind during pity parties, but I always encourage him to go. He brought up divorce, splitting of belongings, tattoo removal, and me going out with men. I've told him before and I told him again that I'm in no hurry to divorce, will split fairly when the time comes, don't see any reason to remove my tattoo, and most definitely won't be dating while we're under the same roof. I hope he'll eventually believe me and get it off the current "loop". He is very negative minded. That has always bothered me because I am super positive. Even through this.
The sex thing was horrific. It truly is the big reason I don't want to reconcile. Constant badgering for sex or getting him off, all through and well after a VERY difficult pregnancy that ended with nerve damage and a broken tailbone. Sex always coming before my feelings or our child. I never want sex with him again, and if I ever did it would be few and far between, and always on my terms, so any other kind of reconciliation would be pointless.
Thanks again for the useful comment;)
Somehow I missed the forced
Submitted by jackrungh on
It wasn't exactly forced, but
Submitted by lauren07 on
It wasn't exactly forced, but it was pushed mercilessly. I felt it my wifely duty to accommodate him as often as I could. Look around on the internet, there are women telling other women and of course, men telling women that it IS their duty. I'm glad to take the power over my own body back.
I complained a lot, but it fell on mostly deaf ears. It continued through my devastating 2 months of bed rest, until he deployed 6 mo later (I actually looked forward to that 11 mo hiatus), and started back as soon as he got home. I was "stuck" in Europe with him and wanted to keep my marriage. He didn't "get it" until I sat him down and told him I felt treated like a blow up doll and that all sex was ending. It was then that I offered him a one-sided open marriage, but he has refused. I stopped wanting any intimacy because he taught me that anything (hugs, kisses, anything...) always led to him pushing for sex. And to top it off, he was getting worse and worse at it.
I think now he might go out looking. He's trying to come to terms with our situation. I can only hope he meets a really nice girl or two or even just some fun ones to bring back some of his self esteem.
"I stopped wanting any
Submitted by jackrungh on
Another 2 cents...
Submitted by ellamenno on
I think it would help you (both) tremendously to learn as much as you can about ADHD for two reasons: 1) Because you have a child together, you will never totally be 'rid' of your husband. Your dealings/negotiations with him will go much more smoothly if he has a handle on his symptoms and you can get to a place where you can truly believe that he has some value. 2) Your son has a 50% chance of being ADHD as well. If he is it would be a HUGE benefit to know as soon as possible so that he can learn how to cope. He can avoid a lifetime of underachievement, disappointment & low self-esteem. His future spouse will be spared what you're going through now.
It's annoying for you: From your perspective you can see the future, you can make plans. His talk of canceling the trip, removing a tattoo etc. isn't a 'pity party.' It's fear. He's not thinking of canceling because he's lazy or whiny. He's afraid. He cannot MAKE plans. He cannot SEE the future. He cannot see next week. I've been there. It's really ugly. And it's still a struggle to try to 'get' what everyone else is talking about most of the time. But I've been getting better and I know I've changed. The undeniable proof is the fact that I am now really irritated by the behavior of undiagnosed, untreated ADDers.
Maybe there's ADHD counseling or a support group on his base?
I know you've done enough 'mothering' and you don't like him at all right now but ironically, some research (y'know, in all that spare time you've got!) and as much empathy as you can handle would go a long way towards finally being free of him.
does this make any sense or am I just ADD-ing out (as my husband calls it)???
gotta get to bed!
Ellamenno
Nah, girl, you give really,
Submitted by lauren07 on
Nah, girl, you give really, really sound advice with a smidge of needed humor;) And it is clear you understand where we are both coming from. Thank you so much!!!
and it made me smile that you get irritated too;)
testify
Submitted by lynninny on
Nicely said, ellamenno!
If I can add my two cents, my separated STBX and I have children and we still deal with each other on a regular basis. And he still has (untreated) ADHD. So despite the fact that this forum led me to work through what was going on and ultimately my decision was to leave, it also helped me understand his ADHD much better. And even be able to explain some things to my children, which, as they get older, I often need to do.
Congrats on the job, Lauren. Hang in there. And I agree--make sure you get some sleep!
hear you
Submitted by lynninny on
Lauren, you sound like a pretty strong person. I know that my spouse was bewildered and couldn't believe it when the "switch" went off one day, but suddenly, as ellamenno phrases it, I just didn't like him very much any more. I cared about him as a person, but the desire to ever reconnect was gone. He accused me of "holding a grudge," but honestly, that was the moment that the anger evaporated. I wasn't mad.
We are separated now--I left about 6 months ago. Mine often brings up me getting remarried, which, trust me, is the furthest thing from my mind. I am disengaged, too. If he needs help up to a certain point, I offer, but in the way that I would be friendly or kind to another human being and the father of my children. If nothing else, my children see my example and I know this will affect them growing up.
I hope you don't mind me working something out here: The sex thing for me was about the worst thing that I have ever experienced, and at the time I couldn't imagine anyone else going through the same thing. I don't know if I could explain it, but Lauren, you did a pretty good job. Mine was unrelenting about it--talked about wanting it constantly, asked me for it around the clock. First thing in the morning, as I would be racing around to take care of our children, get ready for work, doing dishes, stressed as he sat there, "Are we going to do it tonight?" Rather than being addicted or something, it seemed just obsessive, and probably was on his part--this with what I now know is ADHD but at the time seemed like him simply acting like kind of a pig: no filter and no mechanism to interpret how I felt even though I think I was remarkably clear. I still remember the pressure I felt, all the time, the abrupt and intense language he would choose to use (I am not a prude, but anything loving or romantic went out the window after the first two years). Example: I told him twenty times that I didn't like it when he crawled into bed and immediately stuck his hand up my shirt. Literally, it had to be twenty times. I would tell him I didn't like it and it felt too rough and upset me, and to stop it, and I would hop up and leave the room. The next time he did the same thing, and kind of giggled like he was being playful and funny, I finally screamed at him and told him never, ever, ever to do it again and did he freaking hear me now? I don't know what was going on---did he not remember from time to time? Did he think he was going to get a different response and I would swoon or think it was cute?
This was probably one of the two deciding factors that contributed to me leaving. I had to shut down because it was so painful that he did not seem to hear or care how I felt. The period after giving birth was the worst. ADHD probably explains some of it, but it was not ok for me and I feel scarred by it to this day. It co-mingled with some other things, but it got to the point that I just never wanted sex with him, ever again, and just wanted him to leave me alone.
Sounds like we have a good
Submitted by lauren07 on
Sounds like we have a good bit in common. Wish it wasn't this lol. Thank you for showing me that I'm not alone. This forum and the yahoo group help tremendously. My retreat from my husband was slow and he had many, many warnings. When he said that "I'd go the extra mile for you", I knew he couldn't do it. Maybe with adhd meds, but even the non adhd spouses that decide to stay have a hard time of it, at times. I don't want that future.
My husband's porn/masterbation addiction led to a premature ejac problem. Not only was I constantly nagged for it, but it was incredibly unfulfilling. He started becoming awkward at foreplay too. I was like "what happened to the man I married?". I was so careful not to marry someone not right for me, then went and married HIM thinking I hit the jackpot:( I am very scarred from his behavior and he knows it. Out of all my relationships, he was the first to act like that. I always envisioned a husband that would nurture his pregnant wife. Mine was selfish, thoughtless, sometimes mean, and then openly jealous of the baby.
Mine asked me to be discreet about dating. I already told him I wasn't interested nor do I have the time. If I'm off work, I want HIM to go out. He's the one hurting over this. I got over my hurt late last year.
I love my job so far. First night and I made $60 in tips. She asked me to come tomorrow, but I already work at my other job. I can't wait to start piling money in the bank and paying off debt.
The intimacy issue . . . . .
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
These characteristics with intimacy are so similar to my experiences, it is spooky.
**November 11, 2014 I chose to edit out this information. It would be hurtful to my spouse f he ever read it. I needed it out there last year when I posted it - today I need it back to the privacy of my own mind.**
Sigh. . . . . . . . . .
grabbing
Submitted by lynninny on
I never thought I'd talk about this with anyone, either--I am usually pretty private and it was so upsetting, I didn't know how to handle it. It is doing me a world of good to be assured that I am not the only one. The grabbing--what was that about?!? It didn't start until we had been together for a while. Our sex life was strained, I wasn't enjoying it, I was telling him this and trying to work on it (including the ever-present urging to try couples counseling, which he refused). He would get defensive and say that if he didn't follow a script, then I wasn't happy, which wasn't true. I just wanted some sensitivity and some honest connection. At any rate, the grabbing! I actually started avoiding walking up the stairs in front of him because of the number of times he would grab my rear or put his hand up the back of my skirt. It was always so out of nowhere, and at such a level of intensity. It upset me, and I told him how much I didn't like it, how I felt a little like I was being attacked and I asked him to stop it. And it was like it didn't register or he didn't remember, or what I concluded at the time: he didn't care that I didn't like it. I am not sure what he expected to happen--like I would swoon and be swept off my feet? It was so painful to think a man would treat his wife and the mother of his children this way.
It's just that he was so incredibly disconnected from how I was feeling or reacting. I would have thought that because it was so important to him, and I told him that it would be nice to hear "I love you" or be told I was beautiful to him or something verbal, that he could make some sort of effort to hear me and try it. But he couldn't. Maybe this doesn't have anything to do with ADHD at all, I don't know...At any rate, I got so shut down after a while, I just didn't want to have anything to do with him. Pretty sad, actually.
I found a 2nd job;)
Submitted by lauren07 on
I found a 2nd job;)
Good for you, Lauren! But
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Good for you, Lauren! But make sure you get some rest, too!
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Submitted by lauren07 on
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Submitted by lauren07 on
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The difference of Early Detection is Night and Day!
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Well Lauren07,
I think the probability is your son's life will have a good outcome if he is found to have an ADHD wired brain.
When I compare the ADHD affect on our son - who was diagnosed at 8 years old - versus my spouse who was diagnosed at 53 - the difference is staggering. Even in family counseling, my son was asked to share with his Dad how he learned to deal with situations.
ADHD just 'is.' It was not a defect. It was not something wrong. It was not something that had to be fixed. Hopefully 15 years later, the public school system has evolved - and if not, you will have an important job in being your son's biggest support system.
I don't really know what the possibilities are for these people who are diagnosed so much later in life. I only am living with, and am exposed to one.