Hello All.
I am a woman with ADHD, mild Aspergers and mild learning difficulties (in certain areas) and I recently got out of a relationship with a person who also has Aspergers and ADHD.
I left the relationship because it was unhealthy, toxic and bordering on abusive, in fact it was abusive as far as my family, some friends and doctors are concerned, he would yell at me when things didn't go his way, when things went wrong and when he was out of cigarettes, he would occasionally hit me for the same kind of reasons, he would accuse me of nagging and tell me to shut up when I asked about him paying his share of the bills yet he would go out and create debt after debt, his friends for the most part treated me as if I didn't exist or they were rude or plain nasty depending on the individual, he had poor personal hygiene and incontinence which he didn't bother address yet expected me to be intimate with him and complained that I wouldn't share the same bed as him (I wasn't for the most part due to the smell and what not) and when I mentioned his hygiene I would get told to shut up or f*ck off etc...the list goes on and on but I don't want to keep going, it's just too depressing.
Before I met him I was planning to move interstate to continue studies in the animal care field, I was happy and looking forward to this life I was going to set up for myself but I met him, made friends with him and gave him a chance only to find out it was to my detriment, I thought because I had been a relationship with an NT who was also abusive that this guy was a safe person because he was like me but I was sadly mistaken...very sadly mistaken. I had friends and a future and now I don't have either at this point, I am living in a homeless shelter for women while my beloved cat is with my mother until I find permanent housing.
I had two good jobs while I was with him but it was impossible to get ahead financially because he didn't want to work, he actually complained that I earned too much money because he was losing money from his social security benefits...
I have joined a group for people who have endured narcissistic abuse and my goodness every story I've read is almost identical in some way to my last relationship, there is always something in common and it's scary....really scary because there seems to be so many of these types out there and I don't want to run into another one again.
I don't know who I am anymore but I know one thing for sure I'm not the same person I was before May 2011 and some days I feel like I'm going mad....
Lost.
Narcissism Is Just a Symptom
Submitted by kellyj on
I realize this is an old thread....but I came here to pass on my own personal thoughts to the things that Carlady said. I'm here in the women's section for ADHD....but I have ADHD too coming from the mans side.
I've done so much learning about ADHD for myself....I'm now coming here for a different reason and that has to do with my wife who I suspect...not only has ADHD....but other things going on that are actually a lot more concerning. Narcissistic behavior as I've come to understand....is not necessarily a diagnosis in itself. A lot of different things can contribute to someone who is being abusive in your relationship ...but in terms of ADHD,...I've come to some conclusions base on what I know of myself...and what I have read and learned.
As I have mentioned in a number of different ways.....I was not a BAD kid growing up. I got into trouble for doing things I wasn't suppose to do....but being BAD was not a chronic problem and for the most part,....I walked the straight a narrow most of the time with some exceptions that did stand out. I did gravitate to doing things in terms of practical jokes at the expense of other sometimes but in terms of breaking the rules and getting into trouble....what got me in trouble mostly at home...was forgeting about the time and not coming home when I was supposed to. That...and generally being annoying and hyperactive which lead me to do some crazy things growing up. Crazy as in....dare devil and taking risks which could lead to hurting or injuring myself for the most part. I think I was in part lucky, but some of that was....in part skill....and in part......some what fearless and not afraid of the consequences but also.....didn't want to get hurt either. I somehow could draw the line between doing things that were crazy or hurtful to myself for the most part without actually getting hurt.
But then there was actually doing things where I broke the rules or broke the law. Again...comparing myself to my freinds of others my age.....I still have a line that I wouldn''t go over....even if I went over a little bit...and some more innocuous or harmless ways. There is such a thing...as victim-less crimes...for example: Smoking pot as a teenager. The only person I really could harm as I saw it...was me, even though...it was against the law at the time. (where I live it's legal now)
And so it goes....my personal boundary for breaking the law....always came down to this. Will I be hurting myself...or someone else....if I do this. Of course...as a kid....we (as in plural) broke the law in some petty ways...stealing candy or model paint occasionally but not as a rule. Mostly....I justified it by rationalizing that somehow....it was Okay since I didn't have any money to pay for it and if my friends did it....then I guess it's Okay?
But I did have a few times when I really screwed up...and one of them came one night after I just turned 21 and got shitty blind drunk and was driving home from a bar at 2:45am ....and looked in my rear view mirror to see lights flashing behind me. You might guess where I ended up that night and that was in the drunk tank in the county jail. I called a friend to come get me since....he had called me only a few months before...to get him out or jail for the same exact thing. At least...he didn't have an excuse to not come take me home.
This was at time....when the penalties were not as severe and my friend was the one who told me before ...."that what ever you do....don't blow the breathalyzer!!! Refuse and then all they can do is take your license from you for a few months" Which is exactly what I did....and then got an attorney who managed to get me off without a conviction. It still cost me a good deal of money and I had to go to alchohol school as the plea bargain with no admission of guilt which was really great and I learned a lot and I actually enjoyed it. I got a could head washing during those classes and they really put you right in front of why you shouldn't drink and drive. They literally...put the fear of death in you and that was probably the best thing that could have happened to me at age 21 since after that....I really paid attention and was extremely cautious and aware of anytime I drank and had to drive. To this day...I still remember the things I learned and it was...a very informative experience that probably taught me more....than being fined and being convicted.
But as I think back to my two hours sitting in the drunk tank with my fellow drinkers who had also been arrested....there was this one guy I will always remember since....he seemed rather proud of himself. While the rest of us were sitting there kind of bummed out and depressed....he stood there and bragged about how this was the last time he was getting caught. WTF??? Last time? How many were there? As he admitted openly....this was his 4th and last time. LOL Something told me...even then in that moments....that he was probably being overly optimistic as he stood there bragging since clearly.....the drinking and driving part was not a problem for him?
All of this is to say one thing and what I've learned. ODD is now considered....and highly probable side effect that goes with the territory having ADHD....but later as an adolescent....it changes to Conduct disorder if the ODD advances to the next stage.
And when it advances beyond that into adulthood....it turns into Anti Social behavior which clearly....my fellow drunk tank mate was displaying in his attitude.
So in terms of Anti Social behavior...even not as a disorder itself....that clearly, is Narcissistic behavior....just in another from...but still....the symptom and Anti Social behavior and that's exactly where I'm headed here.
Like I said....I was a pretty good kid with a few exceptions here and there...and even later as a teenager...and then as an Adult.....being totally disrespectful to authority figures and breaking the law....was never something I had to think about very hard. I'm not saying I didn't break the law....what I'm saying is hurting people (or animals) was never my problem. The one or two times I actually bullied any other kids ..(like in 2nd or 3rd grade)...I felt horrible about it later...and still to this day.
I will never forgive myself for the time I went shooting shot guns with a friend and shot a little bird who was just minding his own business just for the fun of it. I still can't get that imagine out of my head and I still feel my conscious...turning my stomach over that going back to when I was a teenager.
Hurting others or animals....is beyond me to think about. It's so reprehensible to me to hurt someone knowingly...(or the few times I have in smaller ways) that my conscience won't allow me to ever do it again after feeling that guilt and the pain for doing something so awful. I literally still feel the remorse...for nearly every time I hurt someone knowing I could have avoided it or did it out of spite or to get even. I know every time I've done that and I never forgot any of those offenses to this day.
What I'm trying to say....is not that I'm a Saint of any kind....far from it I assure you. What I am saying....that conduct disorder and Anti Social behavior is not my biggest problem or issue. Mostly....it's not a problem for me at all once I got past a certain age.....like around.....20 or 21. Going to jail for a DUI.;...pretty much sobered me up you might say? I do admit breaking the speed limit especially on my motorcycle...but as I told the story her about where I did that.....it was in the middle of the Nevada dessert and the only person I really stood a chance of hurting....was myself again. That was my criteria even there...in whether I should do it or not? It's still illegal....but the only witnesses who really saw me were some Jack Rabbits for the most part. LOl
I'm making this longer than I need to ...but getting right to the point...the behavior that I am seeing in my wife....along with what I also think is some Bi-polor as well as ADHD....is more along the lines of conduct disorder only...not overtly....but still just as callous as can be sometimes? It is very Narcissistic and it does feel abusive...and when I said...that when Mini Me comes out from hiding inside her....Mini Me....IS....a really Fucker to deal with. I'm sorry....but an oppositional child with some conduct disorder in there in terms of caring if she hurts me...or seems almost annoyed when I'm sick or feeling bad myself....was the biggest complaint I took to my T and told him so right in front of her.
As it appears......"Callous Disregard"...for the pain and suffering of others and not caring that the source is you.
Now the reason for this in my wife....I do believe has more to do with her childhood trauma, PTSD and some to do with ADHD...but as I've just now come to educate myself more with Bi-Polar and mood disorders....Conduct and Anti social behavior can go with the territory. I don't think she's a bad person or does these things on purpose either.....I think like me in my past....she wants to be good...and is good mostly....except for these times when she's not...and can't get a handle on it or is even that aware of herself during these deluded moments.
That's the difference right there between her and I but I just couldn't put my finger on it. It's these deluded moments...when Mini Me appears...and suddenly....her behavior turns from good to bad....all of a sudden.
The one that really stood out to me...was when she drinks too much. Actually ...she is super sensitive to alcohol and changes drastically right in front of my eyes.
I can tell you one thing that I don't do...is get mean and nasty and hostile when I drink all of a sudden.
Even when I was sitting in the cop station and they sat me down to take the breath test...I was cordial and polite...and told them I understood what my rights were and the consequences..,,,but I'm going to have to pass .;...in a very respectful and courteous way....with no attitude behind it.
Even at 3:30 am....half in the bag...and not feeling all that warm and friendly and being locked up with my other cell mates....who were bragging how good it was to be Me!!..... at the time. LOL
J
Dissociation - Trauma - Losing Time - Protector
Submitted by dancermom on
J- Have you talked to your T about your wife's episodes that you call Mini-me?
Since you say she loses time and has these episodes - and has childhood trauma - this seems like a thing to explore more. It might look like but not be, narcissistic or bipolar or adhd or conduct disorder.
A dissociative protector that emerges in times of stress will likely be a pretty tough customer. Have you and your T talked about this?
Yes Dancermom
Submitted by kellyj on
I actually called and left a message to him...explaining what's been going on in brief to give him the heads up. My wife and I are going in to see him....but....as I know, this is delicate situation and not something that has ever worked from me to just walk in and start downloading all of this at once in front of my wife. oooo...boy...no!!
She won't here it from me anyway. But also....my T isn't a mind reader either....he isn't getting the facts from her any more than I am but he does have the ability to pin it down once he gets more of the story. And since....that process and digging it out of her can take a long time with only 1 hour every couple of weeks....I thought if I just told him what I know and the things I've learned that he hasn't heard before.....if he knows that ahead of time with a complete story to work from....it kind of take the pressure off of me and not have to watch what I say?
Now I can just walk in with her....and let him do his thing. That is His thing anyway.....that's not my job.
But a little reconnoiter work on the side...never hurts anything. LOL
J
PS....In the Art of War....the first tenant of successful engagement....is good information, gaining allies...and the advantage of surprise. Straight up:)
Mini Me.....Outside of Your Experience
Submitted by kellyj on
Dancermom,
Thanks for mentioning this....I looked this up briefly and suddenly it did make sense to me. Kind of.
I read an article that illustrated this....but in another one it mentioned that 90% of the people who suffer from this are women. Again....this appears to make even more sense to me now. What I experience with my wife at times....is simply outside of my own experience and she cannot explain this to me other than to do what she does. And what she does in these moments....is become Mini Me. As a dissociative experience...which I am aware of and have had in my past.....I can at least empathize with that much...but at the same time....cannot put myself into my wife's shoes in these moments....because what she experiences is outside of the realm of anything that I have ever experienced and never will.....exactly.
What I have experienced in my past....I had to go back a ways to my very first girlfriend (long term) at age 19. That was the first time....I experienced the feeling of being out of control in a way...that made me feel completely disoriented and reactive without the ability to manage it.
However.....this girlfriend did do something....that triggered this reaction in me in the form of humiliating me at a party in front of some friends....or at least...I thought she did. She was actually being mean intentionally...and belittling me in front of her friends.
But what I remember...was taking that to an extreme...and thinking all kinds of things that weren't happening...and I ended up making a fool of myself by my over reaction to this distorted way I was thinking. What I did....was erupt and get angry and hostile and kind of went berserk. One of those moments of extreme raging reactive blowing up that came with those distortions that weren't happening.
While I can relate with this experience.....my wifes experience can be from me just saying the wrong word with no intention or even being mean at all. Seriously. I can be being...extremely nice and not angry at all...and suddenly...she'll go off without warning...and I can't connect it to anything I did which by this time....i realize....I really didn't do anything to cause this in these dissociative moments she has.
And saying .....I can't know what this is like or even relate to anything she says during these episodes since....they are simply outside of my own experience and one I will never have?
This article had an illustration....of who Mini Me....really is. The cat person....who's claws are really sharp and very hurtful. That part....I know without question. This does help me understand and at least....I can related to it up to a point and know what I am seeing based on what I said. I had to go back that far....to find something like this in me even though I did experience this at different times....but they were rare and few and far between as I said. I think I get it now from reading this article and others like it.
And especially related to things she's said that never made sense....but now see that 90% mostly women and not men....means....I will never truly understand it because my experience...is so much different that hers? With her....there are definitely two personalities.....Her....and then the cat person (Mini Me). If she doesn't drink or has had anything to drink.....this almost never happens. It's the alcohol that brings these movements out in her....but it takes only a one or two drinks to do it. I use to think...she was just a "light weight"....but I see...there is more to it than that.
linkhttps://discussingdissociation.com/tag/protector-parts/
J
"The Watcher"....Different Parts of Personality
Submitted by kellyj on
I don't want to get too far a field here and make any bold statements in what I see with my wife at times....but this is really it...in terms of the parts that I don't really understand well. My wife does fit this explanation pretty well..but to what degree I'm seeing....it may be more subtle and not so severe. I think this is true. It how it feels to me and think there is still something to do this. It is part of it.....that's all I'm willing to say.
But in this article I included on dissociation....there was one line that really stuck and hit me as something that I've seen and do notice....but just can't place it in myself exactly. Part of the....outside of my experience and knowing how to deal with it?
My guess is that the switching between the woman host and the others that are represented on her personhood is not as obvious as it would be between the woman and the cat-child. Some switches are much less visibly different, and I would guess that the woman and her male parts are in close communication, and switch fluidly and easy between each other. They seem to have a good balance of sharing and cooperation, and while their roles are very different, there seems to be a strong level of comfort and familiarity with each other.
One of those subtle but somewhat noticeable personality switches...is what I'm calling "The Watcher". The watcher....hold suspicion close at heart. The watcher is also the accuser of things that aren't happening or accuses me of things I didn't do...and misinterprets my actions or things I say....to mean something different than they are. The watcher is big on projecting what she see's....and interprets meaning and looks for intention where there is none. The watcher insists....that these things "mean something". Yet....it could be as little as me scratching by butt....because it itches. (putting it crudely)
"Why'd you do that?"...the watcher says.
"Because it itches?????"
"No....that's not the reason. You did that because.........."....and then comes some accusation or reason....other than the reason.
:"What ARE you talking about??? MY butt....itched....so I scratched it??? WTH??? Why are you paying such close attention to my body and why I do things.....like itching my butt. Doesn't your butt itch sometimes? And when it does....don't you scratch it??? Jeese Louise!!! Can't someones butt itch and then they scratch it...without it meaning something other than that?????"
And away we go......"The Watcher"....is now getting ready...to enlist some help. And that help comes in the form of the persecutor.....and that's a place I do not want to go!!!!"
I'm learning....to just let the Watcher....do her thing and not be offended and certainly....not question...the questioning....that makes no sense what so ever."
The "Watcher"....is very suspicious indeed...and needs to read...."intention" into everything down to the smallest detail...... Even scratching your own butt.
PS....This "Watcher" personality...is actually really uncomfortable to around sometimes. It's like...."your being watched" with suspision. I remember the same feeling I had growing up....with the strange neighbor women who live next door to us. You never saw her or she rarely came out of the house.....but I would be in my own back yard playing of just doing my thing....and I would get this funny feeling....like someone was watching me?? I turn toward this feeling....and see the curtains on the window close together....which told me...I was right. This neighbor lady....was always watching and peeking out the window....but the second you looked to see where this uncomfortable feeling like "you're being spied on" came from....you see the curtains move which meant...she was always there "Watching". It was very unnerving and made you feel like your privacy was being invaded because actually....it was.
It's the same feeling I get from my wife sometimes and it feels the same way to me. Like my privacy is being invaded and I'm being eyed with suspicion.
I realize however, in light of reading this article and beginning to see where this comes from more....that "The Watcher" is not something....that my wife is even aware of. I have to be considerate of this....as I feel uncomfortable and not react to it like I'm having a problem with the Watcher. I can say things nicely and considerately and pay respect to the watcher without being critical. That will work and has worked since...this is just part of who she is. Putting the "Watcher" down...for making me feel uncomfortable....is something I need to let go of and see it for what it is.....in these terms and from this perspective. So what...is what I say??
J
I also see the description you give as
Submitted by DiamondGoddess on
An addictive personality. You could try CODA or Al-Anon for more help/support.
I have gone through some of what you describe too.