Submitted by PoisonIvy on 10/07/2015.
I have noticed that in the little bit of communication my husband sends my way, he mentions how depressed he is a lot. I offer sympathy when he says this and I also recommend that he get mental health treatment. He then sometimes says that mental health treatment won't do any good. Is it appropriate for me to put up the boundary that I don't want to be the person he dumps on about being depressed? I think he's trying to use it as a free pass to his dysfunctional (with me) behavior.
Depression
Submitted by jennalemone on
H was depressed when we were young. I made all sorts of compromises and allowances and tried to support him and his emotional health for years. He took advantage of it and lived a happy go lucky life of entitlement after seeing that he could act like a child with me. It started a pattern for us that lasted a lifetime. And neither of us respect him or me now. I didn't want my children to have a depressed or mentally ill father. He was maybe a little depressed for personal things that were happening at the time.
We don't do people a favor by enabling them to be pains in the butt to us. People have to feel the pain of their own bad actions and attitudes in order to grow and learn. Going back to that time in our marriage, I should have let him fall and find his own way back up. Sometimes people won't grow until they feel the pain of remaining the way they are.
I thought I was being loving. I didn't know that sometimes love means showing up as a person with standards and expectations.... Even though we might get called names and criticized while we are doing that. If we don't stand up for our values, we end up calling ourselves bad names (weak) in the long run for NOT acting when it was necessary.
Just what I needed to hear.
Submitted by MaineMama on
I just posted a question related to setting boundaries, your response on this thread is just what I needed to hear/read in a general sense of the word. I am completely aware that my support of my husband has just enabled him and made me resent both of us. My deepest fear is that he crashes even further and the consequences of that crash hurt me and the kids even more than we are already suffering from his actions.
But, I am doing it. String and consistent boundaries where the problem sits with my husband instead of me. At least in its simplest and straight forward form.
<<We don't do people a favor
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<We don't do people a favor by enabling them to be pains in the butt to us. People have to feel the pain of their own bad actions and attitudes in order to grow and learn. <<<
Exactly. This is why "being a good parent" is different from being a loving parent. H knows that his mom was a "loving parent".....she actually overdid the "love." But in fact, it wasn't "love", it was her decision to take the "easier way." It was easier for her not to correct H or hold him accountable. When H would break a household item by being too rough, she would just say, "oh well, I wanted a new one anyway". Those were teachable moments, but she was too lazy to make the effort. There were likely times that she didn't want to risk H "getting upset", but if she had made him "do some chores" to earn the money for the replacement, that would have made an impression.
<<Going back to that time in our marriage, I should have let him fall and find his own way back up. Sometimes people won't grow until they feel the pain of remaining the way they are. <<<
Absolutely. It's one thing to occasionally prevent a fail if the consequences would be too great, but let them take the feel the pain of the rest.
However, I soon learned that getting charged for bounced checks was not "painful" to H because we had the money (in savings) and he'd just move money over to cover the fee and to put more money into the acct. So, I had to come up with another consequence.
The consequence HAS to matter to the person. I'm reminded of whn my child kept forgetting to put his name on his class work. The teacher would take a couple points off...which my son didn't care about. I told the teacher to tell him he'd lose recess.....and son started putting his name on his paper.
I'm not an authority on
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I'm not an authority on depression. However, I did go through a period of depression. I only left the house once a week for about two hours. I didn't even want to do that, but my kids needed me to leave the house. I never went outside or got fresh air. My ADHD husband ignored me. He didn't care one bit about my well being. He just didn't want to be bothered by me. I wish someone had cared enough to help me because I couldn't help myself.
My brother had a wife that was mentally ill. I always wondered why he didn't get her some help. She ended up committing suicide.
However, I also realize that it can be very difficult for mentally ill people to cooperate with treatment. It can be difficult to get them to take and stay on their prescribed medications.
Im a firm believer that nutrition and exercise can help depression and ADHD. But again, it's very hard to get them to cooperate with changes in these areas.
Does your husband show signs of depression in all areas of life, or just with you?
I feel for you. it's a very difficult situation.
Hopeful Heart, what kind of
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Hopeful Heart, what kind of help would you have accepted? I've encouraged my husband to get mental health treatment many times over the years. Sometimes he has. One of the therapists asked him if he was in therapy only to get me off his back. Damned if I don't, damned if I do.
Today, my husband told me that he has been having suicidal thoughts. I told him that I'm very concerned, that I think he should get mental health treatment, but also that I feel put into a bad position as the ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS. I think the deep depression and suicidal thoughts have a lot to do with the fact that he's the 24/7 caregiver for his mother with dementia and his emotionally abusive father, who complains every time my husband leaves them, even for less than a day. I asked my husband to come home this summer to be back up when we were having work done on the house. He refused. He did come home to see our older daughter, in town for a few weeks in the middle of a big move. He was here less than one day and his dad called and whined about needing him and he went back to his parents'. I feel trapped and manipulated by being the only person who knows but totally without power to do anything to help.
I believe that my depression
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I believe that my depression was situational. I lived with two people with untreated adhd and I think I just finally succumbed to the stress of it. My depression lasted for several years. I had suicidal thoughts many times. I prayed to God at night that I wouldn't wake up in the morning. I wish that my husband would have at least noticed that my quality of life was terrible. I wish he would have offered to go for a walk with me or take me out for a nice dinner or take me to a doctor. He just ignored me. I finally figured out on my own that it was my environment that was making me ill. I removed myself from the environment. I relocated to a much nicer place with a better climate so I could get outside and go for walks. I gradually felt better. As I felt better I was able to overhaul my nutrition and get the junk out of my diet. Then I was able to start exercising more vigorously and continued to get stronger. My family is back together now.
It sounds like your husband's depression is also situational. Yet he has the added complication of ADHD. Is there anyone that can take care of his parents to give him a break sometimes?
I completely understand how stressful it is to be the only one who knows about your husband's problems. I am the only one that knows that my husband and son have ADHD. They don't want anyone to know. We live in a very remote area where trained therapists and doctors aren't available, so I carry the burden by myself. I have learned about alternate treatments (neurofeedback) that I can administer at home and they have both made some progress. But it's not easy. They are both very reluctant to do the neurofeedback treatments. It's time consuming and boring and they fight me on it. It is a constant struggle.
I have encouraged my husband
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I have encouraged my husband to come to our family home several times over the past few years. Finding a substitute is difficult but not impossible. One of his siblings offered assistance. My husband told his brother that he (my husband) is "not welcome" at our family home. False. Meanwhile, my husband's father says that I'm mean because I'm not going to the in-laws' house (so that my husband doesn't have to ever leave).
You've obviously tried to
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
You've obviously tried to help your husband and he's just not willing or able to accept your help. His lying and extended family are making matters impossible.
This may be completely and totally irrelevant, but I feel compelled to mention it. I have observed that we pick up so much emotional baggage in our lifetime. When it becomes too heavy to carry we start dumping it on other people. My mother started dumping her emotional baggage on me when I was 14 years old. My MIL started dumping her emotional baggage on me when I was 27. And then I have my own emotional baggage and it all became too heavy for me to carry. I think it's a cycle from one generation to the next. I tried to help my mother and my MIL, but they were unreceptive, too old and set in their ways I guess. I finally decided that I had to break the cycle. I refuse to take anymore emotional abuse. I refuse to take anymore of other people's emotional baggage. I refuse to carry it anymore. I refuse to pass it on to my children. It feels very selfish of me, but at the same time it feels like the right thing to do for me and my children.
It sounds like you could be dealing with many years (generations) of emotional baggage that have been dumped on you from your husband and his family. You can't carry it all yourself. It's ok and necessary to put it down and walk away from it and break the cycle.
Thank you, Hopeful Heart.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you, Hopeful Heart. You are sweet and are conveying a message that I really need right now!
Old habits are hard to break
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Hi RoseRed,
I agree with your view. And as I am learning and reminding my own self, I can only control my side of those conversations, and unless he is a danger to himself or others, I feel comfortable saying, "Yes. You are entitled to put up that exact boundary." Put in place with love, and firmly enforced with a broken record response of something like "I love you. It hurts me to see you in such pain. I disagree with your opinion that mental health treatment will do no good."
I am doing exactly that myself. It is helping LIZ. I cannot help someone who does not want to be helped. I cannot help someone who will not say "I am miserable and I no longer want to be that way." More or less, I truly believe that my own spouse's pain has NOT been touched. He is stuck at this place of thinking he is OK and the world around him is the problem. He needs to be a HELPER. I see a wounded healer - he WANTS to help other's, however no one can give someone else what they themselves do not have.
I think I had unwittingly stood in my spouse's way, and maybe enabled him to remain just where he is.
He did indeed have a hard childhood. 3 of the main details that had a negative impact were: undiagnosed ADHD, a critical father, and a school system that told him and his parents that he was not living up to his potential.
The way Liz sees it: He in turn bucked against that. However the idea of "not good enough" got deeply engrained into his way of thinking. So, he learned to be defensive against anything that started to feel like criticism. That response grew into something that holds HIM hostage. I in turn, allowed myself to be held hostage by his "I KNEW I would never be good enough for you." My erroneous feelings of guilt then caused me to back down, and away, and change my mind, and keep him happy. I also doubted my own ideals, and my own feelings. I unwittingly took my place in line with those accusers.
Now I know better. I refuse to allow myself to be grouped together with those who hurt him. I do not accuse him. I do not think he is a bad person. I also do not agree with everything he says, nor agree with all his opinions. I just choose to agree to disagree. That sort of thing is a family trait that I married into - "If you do not agree with me, that means I am wrong and you are right, which also means you are good and I am bad." That was HARD stuff for me when I was first married. I was insecure and timid and if we chose to do anything different than how his Mom raised her 7 children, we got reprimanded because "We hurt his mother's feelings." Oiy, oiy, oiy. I SEE that same pattern in how I protected my spouse's feelings. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! That is the sound of the Light Bulb of Liz FINALLY understanding.
Liz
What a wise post, Liz.
Submitted by Bou (not verified) on
What a wise post, Liz.
"I refuse to allow myself to be grouped together with those who hurt him."
You bet.