Easter Sunday we will have 20 people here. We have a big house. H's "areas" that I try to let him have to his content are "hoarding rooms" and are dirty including his office, his bathroom and his rec room. (He also has the garage and sheds and rented storage buildings where he pays for his rusty dirty "valuables" to be stored until he can "sell" it all at a profit. When our extended family comes to visit I used to clean the entire house including organizing in piles and washing all his areas. I was ashamed of his dirty, getting smelly mess, believing it a reflection of me as the housekeeper.
I am not going to this year. I asked him if he was planning to do any clean-up of his areas before Sunday, and he loudly scolded me that he had been ..."cleaning up ALL DAY!!!! CAN"T YOU SEE THAT?" It was 10am and he was looking at a paper on his desk. (To sort means to read each paper from 5 years ago and then stare at it and think about it for a minute, then put it into a paper bag with a few other years old useless papers.) He believes in experiencing and enjoying each moment as it happens and is oblivious to things outside of what he is focusing on at the moment. It has been 30 minutes since and he has already started some other activity outside. Yes, just to sort out carefully the top of his desk would take a person an entire day. But there you have it. There are three large rooms in our house that are a dirty mess. I work full time. He works 3 days a week. And I am going to let it be. There you have it.
I know that by ignoring it, it will grow. Not sure if I can live with that. But right before we have a house-full of people is not the time to find a solution to a much bigger problem. I had to vent this out of me before the weekend begins. Thanks for listening.
Hope you have a happy weekend.
Submitted by adhd mama on
I can relate, but I'm the messy ADHD one. I go into a frenzy 3 days before company and just chuck it all/donate it, store it, clean it. I think thats why the desk tops and tables can be found most of the time. When I try to organize without a deadline I get lost in what I should do with each one, and the emotional attachments, or the loss of money I wasted on a useless or un-used item. It truly takes 10 times longer. I hope your husband doesn't suffer too bad from the embarrassment of his lack of housekeeping if he really is lost in the clutter, and the clutter of his mind; however I hope that this is what it takes to spark him to help keep a home you are proud of.
Happy Easter!
Guests coming
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
adhd mama, I'm glad that you're posting. I've read every one of your posts.
I really buy into what is often said, that there are no two ADHD people who are carbon copies of each other. Of course. Same for us who don't have ADHD...earlier today I visited an ADD-run board and ran across another one of those "all NTs" are X, the X being something skuzzy. I just don't have really good patience with generalizations about everyone in a group defined by biological features. We're not simple clams or undeveloped strains of wheat...we people develop our own histories and ways of doing things. I know I'm preaching to the choir here.
I think perhaps that there's no way to "defend" all "NTs" though, or for that matter all people with ADHD. I'm constantly finding comparison (similarity) & contrast in all kinds of life details that people tell about their own lives.
My husband tends to track more to what Jenna described. He doesn't duplicate your cleaning behaviors. He has his own, that don't much relate to whether or not guests come. He and I are a work in progress about his exuberant scattering of things all over the place, daily and never picking them up, and my need to have at least partial cleanness and order in the house, if I'm going to have the peace of mind I need to do my own work. I don't "reduce" this to all ADHD, all NT. But just to report to you, I smiled, ruefully, when I read Jenna's description. We're having Easter guests, too.
Jenna, it seems that my partner and I often do Russell Barkley's now/not now. If it's not now for my husband, it doesn't exist. If it's now, it does exist. So: cleaning up for guests. (Smile) OK, it's Friday & I've started my routine in the house. He's in not now. I have places that have to be in order, and that's my job to keep clean and straight (because he's in not now about them until he uses them....heh, his not now about his apartment when he was living in it was always...I don't want him to be like me, but you'll appreciate it: I don't want to be the default house slave, either....at any rate, I got a very good eyeful over time, of how he handles his possessions, and when he pays attention to them...). Jenna, I'm not confident yet of how this is going to work for the long haul for us, but like you've decided or are deciding, I decided that his spaces in the house were his spaces and have let them be. And they're a royal mess, and he never, ever puts a hand to the space he works in or stores things in. I guess it's not now to him, until it irks him...briefly.
Jenna, I don't know, 20 guests in a home are a big deal, a big party, a lot of work. I have no advice, but I'm in the identical problemw ith fewere guests. I decided to let his spaces be his spaces, and if when the guests show up, they become "now," I'll let him deal with it, and with the guests over it, and won't criticize him, especially in front of him, actively or passively. I wasn't raised that way, but then there wasn't ADHD in the house in which I was raised.
I was thinking this afternoon, that I passionately don't want to fall into being a nag or a mommy. Sanitation, the care of some spaces but not all, are my job. For years, decades, I thought guests were made welcome by a clean, fresh, orderly house, and some thoughtful preparation for giving them pleasure. I'm having to find new ways to do part of that, but to accept my partners habits with guests and himself.
Lol, we've had some pretty crazy last moments before guests arrive, and his not now turns into now, and he notices that he doesn't want all that stuff all over his areas. The only thing I can think to do now is to love him, and let him be dealing with whatever he wants to deal with a half hour before people show up.
I've had to adjust my standards of order, in preparation for guests.
All best and happy easter
Been there
Submitted by Delphine on
My grown ADHD son was living here with me in this small apartment the last 4 years. He's always been a slob but he was not diagnosed ADHD until a while after he moved in here.
Early on we made an attempt to work out some sharing of chores. He did some, sporadically. I got tired of always having to remind him so in the end it was really all up to me.
Trash, recycling and compost pickup is on Mondays here. It was several years before he was able to remember that. All too often he would just walk by the bins which had been left out for
pickup the night before and needed to be returned to the alley where they are kept. Reminders, reminders, reminders. Once in a while he did remember on his own.
Again, I came to acceptance that keeping the place decent was my job. One thing I've noticed since he moved out the first of this month, is that the rugs in the bathroom stay a lot cleaner. They would get filled with dust so fast, I was shaking them out almost daily. The other day I realized what that was about. My son rarely vaccumed or picked up the rug in his room. So, every time he went in the bathroom, he was tracking a lot of dust along with him. Heh, I have to laugh as I'm typing!
To be fair to him, he was helpful with a lot of things. He helped me get set up with aquariums, gave me advice on the fish (he used to keep fish pets himself), made repairs and helped with computer issues. He likes solving problems.
I am sharing the place with a young gay man now. He's clean and considerate. I'm used to getting into housework so it will still be my main job, but he will make a lot less work for me.
Son did do a decent job of organizing/moving stuff out of his room, and cleaning it. He had a ton of stuff and he took so long, I was in anxiety over whether the room would be ready in time. He was cleaning the room at the 11th hour, as the new roomie arrived on moving day.
All of that said, I love my son very much, we're frequently in touch by texting, and he's always in my heart. But I know it is for the best that we're no longer sharing the place.
Important to keep a sense of humor about it all. ADHD is something else. Son's dad has it too, and was undiagnosed when we lived together. Let's just say we fought a lot and I guess I don't have to go into the details. I think the experience with my son and what I've learned about ADHD, has given me a valuable perspective on all of that. And strengthened my determination to do things differently with my son...to come to understanding, and to support him, as much as possible. And let go of judgment as much as possible.
It strikes me that in a way, a child is even more of a partner than a spouse. We can't and should not separate (emotionally) from our children. This is unconditional, forever love. But love is not enmeshment.
Anyway...good to share. NowOrNever, your observations about "now/not now"--very insightful. And helpful, thanks.
Delphine
A question about raising ADHD Kids
Submitted by adhd mama on
Hi Delphine,
I've really enjoyed your comments that I have read the last few days, you bring up many points I need to ponder and make adjustments to. So as a hyperactive mom with a very very hyperactive 8 year old what would be key things I could focus on teaching her that would make her relationships with her spouse better. My husband and I have sometimes broken our nervous conversations over her by relating to the movie "Benny and June", we know she will be more high function then June, but I do pray for a very special understanding partner for her, maybe him having ADHD/ADD/SPD would create more empathy between them.
I think I'm not seeing the forest through the trees, I'm always focused on the next OT goal, or the next irritating behavior that is driving myself/dad/sister up the wall, or that I don't want littler brother to copy think it is fun! Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Don't Overthink It
Submitted by Delphine on
Hi adhd mama, welcome, glad you are here.
Don't overthink your daughter's future or who would be a suitable partner for her. Things have a way of working out. Just having loving parents who are doing their best with her is a huge plus.
I hope you read to her. Where doing chores is concerned, I'd recommend this collection of the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books. I think you would enjoy them, too. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25058.Mrs_Piggle_Wiggle_Box_Set
You mentioned in another post that you have health challenges. Getting healthy ought to be your main concern. A high-protein diet with plenty of fresh produce, both raw and cooked, is best for ADHD.
I got my son a rebounder. Seems to help tone down the "hyper" tendencies. Also, the rebounder has many health and detoxing benefits that can help anyone. Your daughter would probably love jumping on it, as my son does. You might, also. You may think you can't exercise because your energy is low, but it could be your energy is low because you don't exercise (or do it enough). I know I really start to drag if I don't move my body. Consistency is important if you are to see results.
When you are feeling healthy, you will be more motivated to make the changes you feel you don't have the energy to take care of now. And you will be a good example to your daughter. I didn't learn to clean when I was growing up, because I had no role model for it. Mom only did the bare minimum around the house. She was a spoiled "only" and didn't have chores growing up. Married, had five children in six years, and a chaotic household. I've realized she had ADHD--undiagnosed. Son's dad has it. Looks like there is a definite genetic link involved.
Oh yeah, "clean as you go" is the way to go. I did learn to clean, eventually!
Delphine
Thanks for the reply
Submitted by adhd mama on
Your comment really cheered me out of my "funk" I've been in the last few days, I must be on the right track! For Christmas I bought her Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle, I have always owned a rebounder (my mom had one back in the 60's so I grew up with one) We would never survive winter if we didn't bounce! In desperation I have allowed timed races up and down our long hallway just to get the winter wiggles out.
She dose struggle with communicating in an age appropriate way, (the theory of take away 2-3 years puts here right at ADHD target level... whatever that really means) I worry about that since I know Dad and I are weak in communication and probably don't really model much because we deal with emotional issues once they are in bed. (I get oversensitive and cry just because we are having a hard conversation, not because anything in it is truly upsetting, my kiddos then worry about me, but husband understands it is just processing through) Guess that would be something to start figuring out better control on and start modeling.
As far as her future goes I just pray for the right man for her, doesn't mean it will be easy, but hopefully he will have a heads up and compassion toward ADHD. A major theme that I am seeing through this website is that all is good/ok until children and the intense responsibility they bring to a couple. I hope she will be able to navigate that choppy water better then I did.
My health was robbed from undiagnosed food allergies, no Dairy and no Wheat (gluten is fine, it is that I am allergic to the plant itself). Every day for about 2 years I thought I had the flu and migraines. Been healing on the diet that you mentioned adding in Potatoes, Rice, and Corn. I finally start feeling well then got side swiped with plantar fasciitis in my feet so walking is so very painful. I barely get a trip to the grocery store completed without sharp pains. Then my calf muscles bunch up to being like oranges just below my knee, physical therapist taught my husband how to massage and trigger point it back down, but that is a horrible way to wake up in the morning. As a teen and early 20s I went swimming 2 times a week, hiking and mountain biking during most weekends, and did workout/weight training videos most days. I think that was how I went undiagnosed all those years, I managed with high levels of exercise for the dopamine rush. I have never been a great runner but I have always dreamed of "runners high" and still set that as a goal I want in the next few years.
Thanks for the pointers and making me realize I am doing a pretty good job for where we are at right now. :)
A few more things...
Submitted by Delphine on
adhd mama, going barefoot may help your foot woes! It helped this person, and there are many other alternative remedies here:
http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/plantar-fasciitis-treatment-alternative...
Re your allergies, this guy is convinced that taking in enough ascorbic acid (vitamin C supplement) is the real answer. From my own experience with ascorbic acid, I agree with him. http://www.doctoryourself.com/allergies.html Taking high doses of C would likely also help your plantar fascilitis.
I'm sure things will work out for your daughter in the future. The best way to prepare for the future is to live fully in the now. Yes, you are indeed doing a pretty good job. :)
Delphine
Thanks for the pointers, I'll
Submitted by adhd mama on
Thanks for the pointers, I'll look into them next week :D
Routines, routines, routines....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I believe that some aspects of ADHD can be mitigated with strong routines. We develop routines when kids are little ....get dressed, comb hair, eat breakfast, brush teeth, etc.....and they do that without thinking.
I think we've moved away from routines beyond the above and our ADHD kids have suffered. Sports still use routines which is why ADHD kids can do well with those.
My older son has ADHD inattentive. I wish I had been more aware of the importance of certain routines with him. From a young age, it was his job to fill and empty the dishwasher daily, and because of that routine, he did do that. But, some other chores were not built into the routine, and he would not remember to do them.
Now that he's out of college and fully employed, I see how he thrives because his job required strict training (almost military styled) and therefore what he needs to do has been "drilled" into his head. I can see why military drills are useful....repeated so much that the actions are done without thinking.
In my early school days, we were very "drilled". We had to practice all kinds of behaviors, including lining up properly and quietly walking into the classroom. Punishments were dislikable-enough to make an impression. The class sizes were very large, no aide in the classroom, but there was classroom control.
Thanks for the warm welcome
Submitted by adhd mama on
Hi NowOrNever,
Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't understand the abbreviation NT, could you give me the definition? I agree all of us ADHD/ or Non-ADHD really can't and shouldn't be generalized. I really like personality typing and finding our about close family and friends so I can try to remember what their strengths are and how I can relate to them best. I think a large part of my hyperactivity is my brain trying to remember all the tidbit facts and being worried I will forget, make them mad, and loose a friend.
I can think back to other adhd people I knew before I was diagnosed and yes they where all slobs! I cleaned up my act after I got married. Our first fight was over doing the dishes, every price we owned was in the sink... he wanted to get it done, a friend wanted us to go out to the movie, he was stubborn about the dishes, I promised to do them when we got back, he set his foot down to stay home, I went with friend anyway! Got home to a sparkling kitchen, and was annoyed at that... so I cleaned both bathrooms and vacuumed, HA! Totally clean apartment. (OH GOOD LORDY was that ever an ADHD and ADD fight and I didn't realize until just thinking it through!)
I finally got my cleaning act started about 3 years into our 10 year marriage. I would like to come another 50% from where we are because I think it would help him so much, but de-cluttering zaps the little energy I have between healing my health and homeschooling/ therapies for the kiddos.
My mom is a special flavor of undiagnosed-ADHD now that we trace the hereditary line.... we had a spare room and a garage you couldn't walk into/through with boxes of stuff. If we wanted to clear off the table for a holiday dinner, everything that wasn't quickly rescued was dumped in a box and shoved into the garage or "storage room". At least the bedrooms, kitchen counters, table, piano top, desks, lamp table, where sometimes cleared. Clearing out the garage after I married and parents wanted to sell the house was horrible. We found a box up on a high shelf in the back, that she filled back in the 1970's that had moved with her through 2 states and multiple places, The marking read "Good Old Junk"... it was half full and had old books of almost no interest, and a brown paisley print tie that I guessed was from her ex-husband. My dad (who separated years before but stayed married to keep the house over my head) just barked with laughter, I was confused why one would keep it. Mom just took it over to the donate pile and went back to sorting.
I've used the "box" method above a few times, still have paper work in boxes form 5 or so years ago, and it is defiantly a now/not now issue, I put a couple in my bedroom where they would irritate me and I got to them in about a week... maybe I have to just keep irritating myself?
Not sure if a Non-adhder would want to even start the box system, but it might be your spouse's middle of the road way of making it usable space for company. It also takes the least amount of actual "cleaning time" when the panic of the deadline of the doorbell ringing looms over their head.
Another cleaning tip I am thankful our friend told me when he helped me cook a fancy gourmet dinner with tons of pots, pans, cutting boards (it was more then I use on a traditional scratch Thanksgiving) was "clean as you go" have a damp rag ready to wipe up when ever the next ingredients are brought out, as you wait for a boiling something, or a baking something wipe up. I NEVER would have thought of that on my own. I'm still a sloppy cook (working on it!) but the clean up isn't near as taxing since I have my wet rag handy. (Twist of irony - this is the same friend that I ditched the dishes and went to the movie with, that gave the cleaning advice!)
Hope you all have a fun, if not sparkling clean, weekend!
Now/Not Now
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Greetings, all. Here's the Barkley video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wmV8HQUuPEk
The box solution
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I've used the box solution on myself, living alone, only its the box-into-the-closet. I've proposed it to my dear one, although it hasnt quite taken with him. He's a shut-the-door-on-it aficionado. I suppose that's a box solution, the room being the box. : ) I'm going to try to hunt up one more youtube about this, by an actor who has ADHD who made a series of videos that exteriorized in physical action what goes on in his mind when he's struggling with cleaning up.
Rick Green
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Well, I didn't turn up the video, but the actor with ADHD is Canadian comedy writer Rick Green. Here's his blog entry that tracks on the video. He's dedicated to getting the word out about what it's like inside to have ADHD...
http://totallyadd.com/tag/adhd-clutter/
adhd momma, NT is an abbreviation for Neurotypical, meaning not having the neurological features of a demographic minority group, two examples being thw ADD/ADHD group, and the AS/autistic group.
There is, of course, no "typical" in a demography (non ADHD) that is 95% of the world population. i'm not at all a fan of binarizing thinking to label behavior or capability of whole groups.
Time to tackle that cleaning here. Best to you all for the weekend.
Thanks for the definition on
Submitted by adhd mama on
Thanks for the definition on NT. I have read a theory some where on the internet that some experts think that adhd/add is actually the primal hunter/gatherer nervous system/brain development; then everyone else evolved into modern society but we didn't, we still pass on the older genetics. It was based on the fact that adhd/add does so much better on a form of paleo diet which I know is a trendy fad... I think they gathered a bit more then eating all that meat! And the high levels of exercise we need to balance our brain chemistry would have naturally been met with all the physical activity hunting and foraging would provide. I've also seen where with so many undiagnosed cases of adhd/add, and now treating it as a spectrum disorder, an expert was estimating that it could be as high as 30-35% of the population has this nervous system.
My husband and I joke; we didn't evolve right, but we can survive the apocalypse.
Julia Child
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
one last one, and off I go for awhile. Adhd momma, I first ran into that clean as you go watching Julia child's cooking show on TV. Living 'way, 'way too many years of my adult on my own life in studio and tiny apartments with insanely small so called kitchens with negligible counter space for cooking prep, clean as you go is the only defence. Julia Child was a hoot, bashing away to clear a counter of flour after she had whatever, made a pie crust on it.
Julia Child
Submitted by adhd mama on
Oh she was a hoot! I never caught the cleaning part. I should find some youtube for my kids to watch (they love cooking and cooking shows). I'll try and find the pie one!
Mom taught me to sanitize a kitchen properly, and I noticed she does the rag trick now, but she never told me that part so I never got it. There have been many messy cooking sessions I have been thankful to my dear friend who explained it!
In one of my favorite Julia
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
In one of my favorite Julia Child shows, she dropped an unbutchered, raw chicken on the floor behind the counter where things were being prepared and filmed. You heard it plop. She snatched it up and just kept going....I guess she was using the 3 second rule, taht they now say they've tested, that if you can snatch it up from the floor within three seconds, it doesn't acquire cooties and will be all right. But imagine, on camera. She'd say that loud "whoops!!"
Another time, she put a baguette breadloaf to rise by making a sling out of a tea towel, putting the towel ends together, making a trough, and shutting the ends in the kitchen door. So there, about 6' up was a sling with bread dough rising in it. Long live eccentrics..
When my partner cooks, it is an X-plosion in the kitchen. But although there are THINGS to work on in other parts of life, I'm glad that he whales away there in the kitchen. Now, if I had to tote all those dirty pots, etc on my back down to the river to clean them one by one, every day, I wouldn't be amused. I've never seen a person go through so many dishes and etc to cook. Which reminds, I either will or won't scrub the spatters off the cabinets before guests arrive tomorrow.
It's more work than usual, Adhd momma. It just is. I'm old enough to have been in other relations. There was more divvying the boring, repetitive, laborious work in those. Just mentioning a fact. Even finding tasks that suit our particular skills, the workload is noticeably uneven.
More work for the Holidays
Submitted by adhd mama on
Oh yes I remember the chicken! HA.... we did that with the turkey one Thanksgiving, but I re-washed him very well in the sink!
I can totally understand how ADHD makes more work. My husband with just ADD was totally oblivious to the fact that I began to HATE holidays, so stupid to interrupt all of the kids routings just to hype them on sugar and give them toys. Maybe it was sexist that it was all falling on Mama's shoulder to pull off a great holiday. I know it wasn't the right way to handle it, I have the ADHD temper (nice to know its not me but it still needs more and more improvement) and one holiday exploded that it sucks to do it all and struggle through my health just for sugar buzz and a gift. Once I blew my top he helps and I am starting to enjoy holidays again. I now see why I like 4th of July... it is all outdoors so no cleaning, grilled food for faster clean up, and fireworks.
I'm feeling really really blessed this Easter that my husband does try to listen and help, and that I am highly motivated to change for the better (it can ramp up way to high into anxiety, but I would rather that then the lack of motivation that has been/is so painful to those on this forum) I see how on the day to day I need to help more/ help teach the kiddos how.
Happy Easter to all!
We have Trained Guests....
Submitted by c ur self on
Our guests have finally figured it out, once she starts engaging and loving on everyone. That they should just put on an apron and help....That is if they want the table to be set, and the rolls browned...LOL....
They know I'll have the meat cooked, and be slicing it...And I will clean up after....:)
C
Mary and Martha
Submitted by jennalemone on
once she starts engaging and loving on everyone.
I get this. That's the thing that is here too. I'm going to be thinking about this phrase today. "engaging and loving on everyone."
The "now and not now" really shows up big when you are hosting together at a get-together. I want to be in a good frame of mind to be able to engage with everyone. A part of me feels like a failure because I do the preparations and work and there is some anxiety with getting it all done. Even while people are here, I will be "getting it done". I want to engage with them while they are here too.
Jena
Submitted by c ur self on
I know; I do the same...Just because time stops for some people, doesn't mean we have to be subjected to this Anal role..LOL...We should shake that demon, relax, and enjoy also....If a few things get left undone...So what :)
The worse thing that could happen here is; our adult children might meet behind our backs and say to one another....What's up w/ Dad? Is he drinking...Ha ha!
C
I will probably be venting
Submitted by jennalemone on
I will probably be venting this weekend some more. I have been getting ready for a week and cleaning for 2 days. The cleaning (other than his parts) were done yesterday. Today I spent the morning doing errands and groceries. This afternoon I will be cooking. Last night I babysat for grandchildren for 9 hours while H laid on the sofa, not feeling well. This morning at 11am when I left the house H was still laying in the same place on the sofa saying "I'm existing" when I asked how he was feeling. I just got a text from him that was meant for my grown son. H was telling our son that he was "busy getting the house cleaned for Easter" direct quote. He was really in the garage, had counted his taking 2 bags of garbage that I had set out by the door and using that small activity to grant himself the title of Mr. "Getting The House Cleaned For Easter".
WHAT???? I could not relay this story for any sympathy other than on this site. There is an audacity here that makes me feel so ...... ugh....I don't even know what I feel. I only know what I think of him. Here I am putting this whole thing together and he is laying around texting others about all the work HE is doing!!!!! It's not the disability as much as the gosh-darn-being-in-his-own-world-entitlement----who-me? - Alfred-E-Newman-attitude. I am alone in this venture. I am alone in this marriage.
I don't think I want SYMPATHY. I am just permitting myself to SEE and ACCEPT how our relationship has been going on so disfunctional for 40 years. I grieve every day that I have been trying so hard to MAKE things work out for someone who lives in an alternate universe where things get done....but not by him.
I am seeing that all the things I worked and sacrificed in this marriage, he has taken CREDIT for. He wants people to think he is "getting the house cleaned for Easter" because he took 2 bags of garbage out. "What a great guy he is for getting the housework done for his wife".
The thoughtless attitude of "Let's not and say we did......hehe." I am not laughing. I am the fool - the tool.
love yourself through the holiday
Submitted by adhd mama on
I know that feeling... and I know I have caused that feeling in my husband. Not giving credit where credit is due is a horrible thing. I would hope your son would have enough experience watching his parents to know that Mom is the one who does the holidays well.
It also sounds like husband won't say thank you to you before or after the celebration, and won't see the mess that these kinds of parties leave behind? I would prepare your heart for that sting to come, I remember having to prepare that way. I know about expected outcomes forcing that outcome to happen, but in the world of unfocused/unconcerned adhd I think having that mental preparation is a must.
Try and focus on the fact that you prepared for yourself to have a lovely time with family and friends and receive the appreciation from your other loved ones as they give thanks for your efforts.
In my experience...
Submitted by Delphine on
Jennalemone,
I've never really felt that I was in a partnership with true sharing of responsibilities, and especially with housework. Where I am at now, is that I feel it is better to be alone rather than in a quasi-partnership. No one to get mad at or to blame except myself. Yeah...for now at least, happiness is being single.
Delphine
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
things get done....but not by him.
Just wanted to look at what you said again, Jenna. Vent away, I'll know what you're saying. A lot of us will.
I like ADHD mama's take, but it doesn't address the misrepresentation that you overheard, it addresses you getting some pleasure out of being with your guests.
As far as I'm concerned, this business of work for the good of the two, but only one puts that kind of work in is one of the largest ISSUES of my relationship at present. I could see that it was going to press on me hard, because he just flat out either didn't have the habits or that plus any interior motivation to do these things, before we started to live together He does have the manual skills. I've seen him decide to use them and use them. Not the motivation, and it's going to have to come from inside my partner, because I refuse to nag him, be his mommy, turn into his ting-aling reminder on his cellphone. It's something beyond distractability and executive function, Jenna, or it is at my house. Mine does do things for us and for me...though they're not what I call the house slave work.
I have some of this figured out: my partner lives in his head about 95% of the time, so what you're doing is not specifically and concretely real, or wouldn't be to my husband, as you prep that party.
I do hope you focus on good times with your guests tomorrow.
At my end, I've had to turn loose of some embarrassment at how things are in the house. Nothing ever needs to be perfect, but I've spent an adult lifetime treating guests like they deserved the max, so I'm adjusting
Happy Easter,
Now
Happy Easter!
Submitted by c ur self on
Don't take it so hard...He just wants to feel good about himself...Besides...Your Son knows his Father, and who does the work...Your husband is super blessed to have you!
C
Don't you touch it!...LOL
Submitted by c ur self on
Jenna, I'm laughing reading this...But seriously; you would be making a huge mistake to touch it....It's not your responsibility to carry a grown man, who refuses to do it himself. And not only, not do it, but raise his voice to you just because you cared enough to inquire about his feeling toward the mess...
....(I know that by ignoring it, it will grow Not sure if I can live with that.) LOL...This is a very honest statement, that also has me rolling; sounds so familiar:)
Once I quit running behind her, and just started leaving it (unless I can't fix my own meals or use the bathroom counter) and shutting the door to the rooms. I'm so much more at peace, and she is more *aware*....Just today, when she was getting ready to leave for work she asked me...How have I been doing lately picking up behind myself? I was proud to tell her she had been doing very good...I told her she only leaves her PJ top on the bathroom counter...I told her I move it so I want get it wet, then throw it back where she left it when I'm done:)
I bought my wife a little souvenir sign....It say's...." I can't clean because I get distracted by all the Cool Stuff I find"....I was laughing and thinking of this sign when I read what you said about your husband and the stuff on his desk....It's not the way we live, but, it's the way they live....ACCEPTANCE....LOL....
I hope y'all have a wonderful Easter w/ your family....
C
Yes! Acceptance!
Submitted by Delphine on
Acceptance does make things easier, doesn't it? Your post illustrates that very well.
As I've said before, the condition of my son's room gave me the heebie-jeebies. Thankfully, the worst of it was confined there. A closed door is sometimes a wonderful thing...
:)
Delphine
Yes Delphine acceptance is on my short list:)
Submitted by c ur self on
When it comes to people, every one of us, have a reality that covers every part of us....Some of these things are fixed, some can change....A huge problem I've brought on myself in my past is (even if it was unconscious to some degree) not being at peace with this truth. About myself, and about others....
So yes, if you ask me what is the greatest gifts a person could possibly receive in this life...The top three for me would be... 1) My Eternal Salvation through The Christ... 2) Self-Awareness 3) Acceptance of reality.
C
Two teachings
Submitted by Delphine on
Two teachings of the Christ that are related to acceptance: "Resist not" and "Judge not lest ye be judged."
If we put up a fight (resist), we just create more resistance, rather than resolution. If we judge, we are judging ourselves along with the other, because it's all our creation.
A biologist weighs in on the biology of belief:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjj0xVM4x1I
Yes; The beam and the mote; and many more....
Submitted by c ur self on
There are many teachings that tell us about ourselves and about those around us....A man can only serve one master....No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, because God's seed abides in him....By this it is evident who are the children of God....1st John 3.
There is no need to judge others; we all judge ourselves by the fruit that we bare...The answer's are always found in the Gospel; it's just to many of us do not want the answer. We want something that soothes us and agree's with our victim stance....God loves us anyway!
C
Balancing
Submitted by jennalemone on
Before I started the preparations for Easter Sunday guests, I told myself, "Just take it down a few notches. Don't try so hard. Don't do so much. Just let it happen." After all was done, I had let some things go and did not knock myself out so much as I had in the past." Even so, now that I reflect, I could have trimmed the preparations down even more.
Can this same advice for myself be useful in the broader scheme of things? I guess acceptance again is the key. When you don't do it very often, planning and executing an event involves some stress. Stress happens. Change and happenings include some stress. I think that is the thing about H that bugs me the most. He does not permit himself any effort or stress. He let's me take on all the stress alone. And does not put himself out to SEE it. There I go judging again. What is this see-saw that I keep myself on with him? Why can't I accept and get on with other things? Why am I stuck on wanting things different? I don't have the answers nor do I expect anyone to know this FOR me. It is something I daily struggle with and come here to sort things out with you all. I list things to look at them and try to identify what is going on inside of ME. I judge myself just a much as I judge him.
Who H is, he IS. Who I am, IS. That is the acceptance. I DID have an open heart with the guests. I saw them as they ARE and I accepted them just as they are. Now, to accept H and myself just as we are toward some balance of acceptance and integrity.
For this occasion "good enough" was "good enough". No need to impress or WOW or feel shame or guilt.
Those of us who have difficulty with being teamed with an ADDer may have this in common: We strive to excel in performance of ourselves and share the stage and spotlight with someone who does not have the same ambition in the performance as we do (but are quick to take the shared bows). Some "acts" can be just good enough. We can shine and perform in other arenas if we allow ourselves the access to them on our own. Then come home and expect good enough is good enough.
addendum: That seems to be "settling" to me. Pushing down my vision of what "could be" for a lesser existence and community. I am willing and inclined to strive and put in effort toward growth and activity. Again, I wrestle.
addendum 2: While I know that contentment is a virtue, and that contentment is necessary #1 for happiness, contentment eludes me. This is my challenge. The people I love and respect the most are those who find contentment and gratitude in any circumstances. Here is my judge again...I have been a complaining malcontent. I am working on this.... being lovely and grateful yet true to myself and strong for my children.
Jenna, I think you got more out of Easter than company:)
Submitted by c ur self on
This is one of the most self-aware posts I've read...You know you well; and you know where you need to go...
(Pushing down my vision of what "could be" for a lesser existence and community.)
I do have one observation slash question about this statement....My vision for what could be? What drives this? I'm eat up with it in many area's of my marriage that are important to me. But at the end of the day I realize I can't change or make decisions or place importance on things for her....So my question is should I not be thankful and content with my blessings and the circumstances just like they are?? And focus more on myself??
I keep cornering myself w/ Self-awareness And Acceptance....Who knows best anyway; the one living my life or the one producing it??? OK to convicting, I'm out of here....
C
Guests in our home, other relationships and the man I love
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I'd like to just get this said, in a place where people from living with it know about ADHD in themselves or in a partner and know about ongoing relation. This is about ongoing relationship.
It's not a vent, in the sense that I'm upset and need to get something off my chest to tackle stress.
It's not a wish that my partner were other than he is, nor is it a complaint about injustice. For me it's a fact that I'm having to examine in my relation which is still in its first years, as I learn what to expect will be ongoing about it, throughout the future
Stock taking.
....this thread has brought up something that is rather big in my relation connected to the question, who does the work of the relation.
There are only so many strategies for seeking to counterbalance a heavy additional workload that drops on one partner, due to taking up shared life with someone else, whether the new partner has ADHD or not. Not all time spent on doing the managing, billpaying, physical clean up, keeping order, shopping, repair, yardword etc of a household can be regained through time management, and letting some things slide. Few of us can buy time back for ourselves by hiring out yardwork or housecleaning.
My partner and I both work FT. Like others in nonADHD/ADHD relations or ADHD/ADHD relations, the workload of our non-job, shared life has fallen to a great degree on me. I'm not a stay at home adult, with the task of running the house. I match my partner, hour for hour, in FT work outside the home. And exceed him often enough.
I think for me one of the impacts of this being the manager by default, housecleaner by default, shopper by default, due to his ADHD limitations and my willingness to pick up that slack, is that I'm isolated from relationships with other people by the extra hours of work int he week.
Before he and I began seeing each other, I was working FT and doing all the care inside and out of a house including as much physical repair of it as I could muster, to save $, which kept me running throughout the week, so I was somewhat surprised that the shared life workload increased, substantially, over what I was already doing, once we took up residence together.
But it has. Because I was already at full gallop throughout the week and weekend working, I frankly didn't think I could do more than I was doing in the week, and wow here came much more.
Now, I understand from my life experience that relationships under one roof take more time, and ought to, for all kinds of reasons, so I don't need to be convinced of that basic fact
What I'm talking about is that I'm assessing, still, what this particular relation, day in and day out is doing to my ability to maintain friendships and develop new ones, do service for someone other than my husband, and have a good, flourishing relationship with myself.
As workload, which required more hours to do went up, my opportunities for time with my friends went down, and the opportunity to serve beyond the house, except as I could funnel anything into my FT job went out the window. Plus I've had darn little time for basic self care.
I think I need to look at that square on, and name it for what it is, because that pressure to focus on his care, and taking up slack I think is going to be there, going foreward
What was food for thought, this weekend, and reading this thread, is the intersection of other friends and my partner and me in the home.
I have some ways about living that I prefer. They're grounded in values and some of them in my religion. One, is to be open and generous with friends, giving them time, attention, opening wide up and reciprocating with them. I have a partner too, who loves on guests. He has his own friends too, and loves them. He loves to have parties. He does not do the work for his friends of preparing for their arrival. He does not, as C does, clean up after. He's a grasshopper about making a whole house into a welcoming nest for people coming in it. He'd like to serve the fatted calf, and happily does so, but does not go find the fatted calf.
That appears to be what is going to be our way, with people invited into our home. I love that he loves people, but I'm going to have to manage and care for me in these situations or the work will really get me down and that's not good. Because, just like Jenna indicated she expected would happen at her event, he will be loving on people, and I will have spent part of 2-3 days before preparing for them, will be scurrying around serving them, because he doesn't think to check on what they'd like or need, nor does he think about how the food gets to the table. No complaint. Fact.
Jenna if you're reading along, my immediate decision, that I'll have to test out over time, is that I'm going to have to be quite firm about how many times we entertain. I'm working at breakneck speed as it is. Too many parties to do the extra work for will either lead to physical collapse or groom me in having a very exhausted, bad attitude. He has yet to volunteer to do anything, and because he's in not now all the way up to a half hour before the doorbell rings, is unwilling, when I'm asking him for this or that to do it...because it's not real, what he's chosen to do at the moment is real. So I'm going to have to say yes to parties when I see I have time to do the before, during and after work while he loves on the guests. He and I are working on me giving him specific tasks in the couple of day run up to the party, but at this point it seems to have to be within his knowledge from the past that he's competent at doing them. Forget clean up.
So, although it runs against my own capabilities and inclinations to love on guests myself, I'm going to hae to say no to some of the parties he wants. He always seems vexed when I say no, but then I don't think he knows from doing it how the house gets clean and things are not crazy in the kitchen, for a more complicated menu to a lot of people. He's as intelligent as they come, but I don't think he's done the management, labor & executive function to do one of these events on his own.
But my primary look it straight in the eye today, is that in order to work more, because more work is demanded of me by this relation....and that's how I see it: we can't hire it out, not doing it will be detrimental to us and to me...I've lost relationship time with other people. There is an increase in isolation from other relationships by the increased workload, which no, can't be let slide or fobbed off on someone else. I've already understood the principle that I need to relax my standards of task completion in the home, and am at work changing my own expectations and habits. What matters to me, is the isolation from other people.
I've lived alone during my adult life, and have done pretty well with it, emotionally and practically, so my issue is not loneliness per se.
This isolation through additional required work per day/week does hit me right in the middle of a religious value, which I adhere to, and have no desire to change. I think we people were put on this earth for relationship, and for generous relating, with more than one person.
There is no single person, no matter how special or high maintenance, and yes indeed I do find my partner high maintenance, often, who will do the job of all the relationships we are put on this earth to have.
Again speaking from my moral and religious grounding, I believe that I'm here to serve others, not only my husband and our domestic wellbeing.
This is a very big deal for me.
My partner is a kind man, with a sweet soul. He is dedicated and intelligent. He works hard at what he does. I tremendously admire how he tackles his life and challenges. We both end up at the end of the day, completely tired because we've been at it all day.
There's an imbalance in our lives, if you compare the two, in the amount of refreshment and down time we get. He has need of what he has need of, regarding taking breaks, and following his interests.
I'm finding that I've completely lost any time for friends, unless I delay needed work for my job or us, and cut myself a pile of woe as the workload then is staggering. I've no time, at present for volunteer work. Let alone have any time to be doing what I understand I was put on this earth to do, which is about the growth and time put in that I need to put in if I give service beyond this household. Let alone have time to really treat me like I loved me, instead of as a machine to keep working.
...and he does not see this well, and I think I see him wincing away from seeing it, too, since it likely would trigger his feeling bad about himself. His solution to these problems that I'm laying up, is to advise me let my work stack up. That's what he does, when he's taking care of his stress: he lets his own work stack up....not nowing it.
So I've got a big moral/spiritual issue that I have to work through, about being isolated from people by this domestic life and the needs of my partner.
In my book, something is spiritually very not right, if all I have time for is to work FT and do the extra care that my husband needs from a partner, and do the tasks of both of us in caring for both of us.
I have an idea that I'm not going to be let off the hook of this one, religiously. The scriptures that guide my life say, quite clearly, that wives and husbands are to serve each other, and help each other, and say quite, quite clearly that everyone, male or female, married or not, is to serve the community beyond the marital union, each individually, according to her or his gift. And to serve God. So there is something that I'll have to be tackling here about workload
For me, I don't know where I'm going to get the time back, in the day and week, to serve beyond the household and have friendships, real ones, beyond the household. I have some very long time friends who are tolerating this disappearance of me from relation, but that's not what I want to give them, or can.
Hired Help
Submitted by Delphine on
It seems to me that if you are both working fulltime, and you didn't mention there were children....you should be able to afford a housecleaner and someone to help with yardwork? This seems the path of least resistance, to me. You state that you can't hire it out, but if it's important enough, you would find the money for it?
Sad to say, in my experience, men who are not inclined to help with this stuff don't change their ways.
You may be able to find students who would fall over themselves for the chance to earn some money, and wouldn't charge that much.
Thanks for the thought,
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Thanks for the thought, Delphine. As I mentioned, that's not a financial option. Nor will it be for some time. Fortunately or unfortunately, I know the sums and subtractions of things, since I manage the financial side of our shared living, week in and out.
What you give is standard advice, and good advice, but please do accept that I've visited the possibility already, and taken a look at what we can and can't spend on this kind of thing, right now I'm telling it as it is: we're in a highly stripped down domestic economy. I'm well able emotionally to have someone do work instead of me doing it, so it's not a co dependent or perfectionist problem.
But thank you, really for wanting to lighten my load that way.
We do have a general game plan, for several years down the road, that will take some off my back, but not now. And so during this financially pinched time, I need to make it from now, until that later time, and it seems to me that some important parts of my life can't wait several years.
Again, what matters to me most, is the loss of opportunity to give to relationships outside the marriage. Not a complete loss of course, but everyone works on balancing and then rebalancing her own life as she is living it, so I wanted to write about the impact on relationships that matter to me, in addition to relationship with my husband. I'm still taking early stock of this relation, and trying and laying down ways to do things that seek balances that benefit me, as well as us and him. It will be awhile that we tinker with how we do things together.
It's my feeling taht I need to see, and name, something that I value enough that I need to make room or remake room for it in a life that has changed considerably in its details, so that's what I was up to in writing my long post.
Just guessing about my personality, I think I'll likely manage to get back some service and contact time with people other than my spouse in the immediate future by eliminating things from my life, not by paying for someone else to do them. But that's just a guess. I'm lucky that my husband has in him already an inclination to stripping down to being travel-ready, so to speak...he certainly can mess make, but is not a high order stuff accumulator. So, along my line of thought, a solution that will work for both of us is to get rid of the dang yard, for ex.
Eventually, when my eyesight goes, I can't bend down to pick up things off the floor and my rickety hands can't do things, certainly that's the time to have hired help. That, in fact, is what we need to strive hard right now to get ready to pay for. But somewhat later.
... : ) I need to go play Lotto or Powerball
Now
Yes, I see. I sure hope your
Submitted by Delphine on
Yes, I see. I sure hope your hubby comes around and pitches in with doing his fair share around your home. Hold the vision :)
In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to enter this. Free cleaning for a year!
http://www.winfreecleans.com/
Thanks, Delphine. My
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Thanks, Delphine. My husband's fair part doesn't look in all ways like the fair part of someone who doesn't have ADHD. I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that the work at my end is hard and more than would be in a situation where a couple could, and did, split work in a major way. I believe that that is something to see and accept. Not to kowtow to, to see for what it is and will be.
To me, it's a plain fact of these kinds of relations that there are executive function issues, matters of attention, perhaps hyperactivitiy, memory, and clutter. It matters all the world to me that he is striving, I'm striving and that we both want this relation to work for both of us.
Again, at the moment, today at least, I suspect that my rebalancing, so that there's more of me free for other things, will come from reducing possessions, not from paying for someone to take care of them and not from shifting what I can do that he can't well or cant do at all, onto my husband.
HI Now
Submitted by c ur self on
This is very personal, very real, and I for one don't take it as a vent...I totally understand where you are and what you are feeling...Some times we hold ourselves to an unrealistic standard. Some times we must make our worlds smaller to answer the call that is first on our lives, whether our partner does or not....Or Whether they understand completely our convictions or not....
I know based on your years of living alone and the comfort and acceptance you had of how that life was able to be managed by you. This new life of two being one has brought so much more business, so much more responsibility. You may be like me (or how I use to be) in that I will just continue to tackle everything, every request, until I find myself tattered and really not in a good place for relationships...
Many people manage their lives in a way that will most always put themselves and their needs ahead of others. I think many of us see this, but, we have convictions and we continue to push to satisfy this heart felt drive to accomplish what we feel is good, loving and a virtuous thing. We can write a post of facts about our calling as a spouse, believer, and friend and we don't question it...
I will just say this...There are many people who never leave a small village in some third world country who are hearing the spirit and following the guiding of the spirit to give and love, and never leaves their small village....So, since you have chosen a new and wonderful way, do not be to rigid or take on fears about the changes you may have to put in place to have the peace your God, Husband, and friends really want for you....As humans we only have the capacity to hold so much in our hands...Everything else runs off...So the real challenge is to make sure our spouse's and our spiritual convictions have room....
One other thing, I will say for myself is...My convictions to be a proper husband, (based on the gospel) is a large part of my spiritual convictions...
Blessings
C
Blessings to you, C.
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Blessings to you, C.
I'll reread your wisdom more than once. What you've written brings up the issue of where we get our standards and goals. From our past? From our own abstractions? From our present commitments and roles? From things beyond us as individuals, and as couples? Again there's much wisdom in what you've written about slf view and marriage.
I'll have to be brief: guides that you and I share have a lot to say about service. None of the calls to service that you and I can read set aside marriage. But simultaneously none of the calls self limit.
John 21. Peter was married.
I think you're wise to point to the understanding that marriage is a vocation to union. I certainly believe this. But religion or no, spouses have obligations to and capabilities for people and growth beyond their past, or for that matter, beyond their present understanding and state. Marriage is a relation involving more than two, always more than two. I happen to think that whole marriages can be called to serve somethng beyond themself, which when it happens, produces the need to attend to the matter of how the two yoked are themselves individually and, pulling along together doing anythng for somethng other than themselves. An instance of what I'm talking about that comes up on this board is the call to foster the growth of children.
Yet, life having these simultaneous calls in it, I want to thank you again for bringing up the issue of dealing with old expectations in new life. Thanks, bro.
Yes; more than two....
Submitted by c ur self on
My marriage doesn't limit the call on my life to love God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength and my neighbor as myself. It's just clear that to experience the presents and power of the third person I must honor both of my covenants in harmony. Or I will become (and have to many times) my own worst hindrance to that I seek.
The story in Proverbs 31 tells it all....I think your husband has a proverbs 31 wife...Ever since you came to this site, the spirit has brought your words to me with a kindness and depth of heart only he could do....
Don't be scared to take your husbands hand and share your sweet soul with him.....
C