Submitted by PoisonIvy on 01/28/2019.
Someone posted this in another thread, and it rings so true for me that I decided to make it a new topic.
My ex would acknowledge the ADHD when doing so suited him. Specifically, he seemed to like the "I am a victim" aspects of having a diagnosis but not the "Now you need to do something about it" aspects.
My DH has used the victim
Submitted by Libby on
My DH has used the victim thing with marriage counselors. He will tell them that he has comprehension problems so can't understand what they are saying. Really? I think it makes him look ridiculous. I have had counselors question me when my DH has left the room. They ask if they are talking in simple enough terms for him to understand.
Refusing to deal with it....just why?
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Why do they refuse to deal with their ADHD? This is the all encompassing question. DH will take the pills, but he won't go for behavioral therapy or even read about it. This is a guy who reads....in fact he read "War and Peace". But, he won't read or even listen to anything about what happens to people who have ADHD, let alone what happens to the people around them.
I know DH's career could have been much more successful than it has been, if he had some insight into relationships. But, talking about anything having to do inter-personal relationships is something he just refuses to do. I don't know why he won't even try talking about his "inner" self. Most of us know how empowering and how "freeing" this can be. It gives us understanding AND brings us closer to the ones who truly love us. But, allowing fear and denial to keep hiding behind false bravado, humor, and crass/hurtful jabs, keeps causing more hurt and distance between spouses. Again, the question is just plain.....WHY? Why keep doing it? It doesn't make anything better, it doesn't help, it doesn't get them anywhere, but they just keep on doing it. So, again, just plain Why? I would love to hear from ADHDers who have changed this dynamic, and could possibly answer this. What made them decide to open up? Why did they wait so long? Did they see the hurt the denial was causing? And of course......why put the blame on your spouse, when your spouse just wants to be closer to them and work WITH them, not against them?
It has to be embarassing to admit you have a short attention span, and get bored with things after 10 minutes. But, still.....DH has a mental condition. And most professional sites call it a mental illness. But, my thinking is, if he has a wife who loved him enough to learn about ADHD, put up with all the craziness, try many different things to deal with it, and put up with my own lack of not getting my own needs met, why not be brave enough to face it? The big question is still just...why?
It won't matter who they have for a wife or husband, because the same ADHD, denial of it, and not learning how it affects others, will affect them too. It's sad that they don't seem to love their spouses enough to want better for them, and set about to see this happen. But, the self focus is always there. Maybe, THAT is part of the illness.....an impossibility to DO that? Then why are some able to change their behavior and have better lives and relationships? Again....why? I don't know.
I believe that they honestly
Submitted by Libby on
I believe that they honestly do not see the hurt that their behaviours cause. They are so self focussed and in the moment. No ability to see the big picture which includes other people.
As far as it being embarrassing I really don't think they feel that emotion either. My DH has no shame at all.
Can't see the bigger picture
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Libby, this is so true in my case. I used to believe he could see the hurt his behaviours caused but didn't care. Maybe sometimes... but now I really think he can't see past himself most times. Case in point: a few weeks ago our daughter asked my husband to do something with her. He said he didn't want to and she got upset saying that he never wants to spend any time with her. He complained to me that she was emotional, etc. However, the reality is, that when she or I approach him to do something with us, we are always met with the same vein of reaction: "No" / "I don't want to" / "I will only do it if I have to", etc. I talked to him about this and explained how it is not about this one time for our daughter... it is that years of "no - I don't want to" add up and she feels like he doesn't care enough to do anything with her.
He honestly could not see this. He kept saying he was just busy with something on the computer at that moment. For him, it was all about this ONE moment, and he could truly not see the greater pattern and the impact it has on her (or me). "She should just get that I'm busy sometimes." (Not that it's the point, but he wasn't... he was just reading about online poker as usual and would rather do that than connect with her.)
I have tried to point out other things recently and he truly looks at me blankly. He just only sees himself and his own needs. I honestly think there is an empathy impairment of some sort.
Another anecdote: Like many ADHDers, he will lash out with cruel comments often. I did something interesting... I started writing them down. I wrote the dates, scenarios and his words verbatim down and I kept a journal for 3 years of the worst things he would say (not even the day to day barbs about my cooking or whatever... just the worst of the mean/awful things.). About 6 months ago he said something terribly cruel to our daughter and it put me over the edge. I pulled the list out and I read to him ALL the horrible things he has said to us since 2015. Honestly, he was floored. At first, he was defensive. "So what if I said those things? I was mad." But two hours later, he was contrite. It was the first time he has ever been able to see why an ADHD behavior is hurtful. He was actually embarrassed as I read him the list... asking me to keep my voice down... and I said, "What? YOU are the one that said these awful things in the first place." He's so far from perfect, but honestly, he has been a LOT more careful with his words since I read that list to him.
You found a way in!
Submitted by Brindle on
Good job, Melody. You broke through. That list was a really good idea. You found a way to get him to see one of his patterns.
Thanks!
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
It was a definite win for me and our daughter. I do wonder if I could address some of the other things in this way (by keeping a list so he can see how things add up for me/us over time). But that may just seem like nagging. I think this worked because he was genuinely shocked at the severity of his own heat-of-the-moment words - especially realizing he'd directed many of them at his own little girl.
I've kept a calender (like a dairy) of events....
Submitted by c ur self on
I track all Independent activities, (by both of us) like going out of town alone, fights and what started it, etc, I track how often we make love, and if her attitude was positive or negative, (victim) etc.. (mine is always positive LOL:)....When she found out what I was doing, she quoted me a scripture..."Love doesn't keep track of wrongs"...I told her...That's right, and that's why I keep this record...Because for 10 years you've justified your actions, and said they weren't wrong...She didn't say anything back....;)
c
Why?...Thoughts....
Submitted by c ur self on
Hi Dede...We've been asking Why? for years....You've read and posted here for many years...So have I....Maybe we aren't considering the impossibility for change for so many....Just in watching my W live, since I met her....There is no ability to not be who she is, no matter how much she wants to be different in many ways...She has opened up quiet a bit over the past several months...The only thing I have done differently is to really focus on kindness, (not pointing out the unchanging obvious) And if I speak, do it kindly (free from anxiety) or not at all....I attempt to show her how much I love her, and I tell her that most days..
Why? I think many of our spouses aren't sure Why? I think they are victims to a degree...Just like a man or women who has physical infirmities that are permanent....IF they truly didn't care about the effects of adhd on their lives, and on others, there would not be so much shame involved.... My wife has always battled her shame with selfishness....She has always tried to pretend to be fine, but, she carry's a lot of guilt from her past and present life....She tries to hide it....I heard her praying tonight, for God to help her with her tendencies....
I think most of our add/adhd spouses want happy and peaceful lives and marriages just like we do....So they do their best to ignore (denial) how hard it is (intrusive, and work creating) on their spouses...And so many spouses fall victim to staying in it, (very unhealthy situations) when they probably should not....Also many of the spouses can't get their needs met emotionally or physically, so that just snowballs into arguments and over focusing on this unhealthy situation to the point the spouse forgets to enjoy living...So these homes become a desolate place where there is no healthy attachment, communication mostly dies....Love dies...(The true acts of giving and sharing love anyway).....
When it comes to just the effects of add/adhd for many who have it at very high levels...(IMO) and experience, it is almost impossible for them to make lasting changes.... So why don't they open up more about it with a spouse and others?? Shame and the feelings of hopelessness ( they have no idea how to begin to change) are what I see....But most people will always cover over shame and hopelessness...It makes us too vulnerable...So in comes your list of how they deal with it...Denial, sarcasm, anger, every thing is a joke.....Anything to deflect from true self awareness....
Why?
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I agree with much of what has been posted on this thread. Depending on the person, some are simply not capable of recognizing how their behavior has affected others. That said, I also believe that some are unwilling to change. Its difficult to know whether your spouse is the former or the latter.
My sister first brought up the idea when I was going through my divorce. She said of my ex-husband: " Some people are incapable. He is incapable." I was dumbfounded. How could a man who seemed loving in the beginning, seemed to respect me....flip a switch? He became moody, angry at the drop of a hat, overly critical, gaslighting, verbally abusive, and controlling with money. I felt completely mislead, like the first 4 years of our marriage and the 3 years dating prior were all a lie.
Adele...What makes us incapable?
Submitted by c ur self on
(IMO) selfishness has deep roots....It also can be hidden for long periods, when a selfish person (not about add/adhd, it could be any of us humans) is getting their needs meet, and life is easy and about them...But, when the work starts, hard times come, when we need to show accountability and consider others, then the true color of a heart appears....What I get w/ selfish people is.....How can I use you? Or How can you serve me? Or what can I get from you, for my efforts?
Selfishness never just asks....How can I love and serve you, wanting nothing in return.
c
Hmmm.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
With my Ex, it was Low emotional intelligence. He was very selfish. I'm sure he had other issues as well, because no matter how great his life was going, he could be getting his way 99.9% of the time, and he was still angry, impatient, raging. Years before our divorce, he went to work for one of his clients, and doubled his salary. He was making 6 figures, nice house, devoted wife, 2 healthy children, loving family. Nothing made him happy, so I stopped trying. He had stopped treating me as a human long before that.
Boundaries do help fend off 'forced commitments'
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
C, I've always been annoyed that my ADHDer wife will allocate other people's time to accomplish something she wants. Usually she will already have a serious commitment when some other 'important' opportunity arises. Rather than say 'no' [to the new shiny thing] she'll 'cover' her existing commitment by planning 'If husband drops his plans and spends 4 hours driving people around and son 1 does this and son 2 does that and daughter 1 makes dinner, then I can do it [the new thing]'. She'll make the commitment to do the new thing BEFORE SHE ASKS ANYONE IF THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR PLANS to accommodate her [again]. This is one of the ADHD behaviors that alienate even family members. It has only been the establishment of the boundary 'If you commit me to something without asking me the answer from me as to whether I'll do it is always 'No'. This has not stopped her behavior but this 'known policy' has helped fend off the explosive rage when her expanding plans get derailed.
Planning our lives WIGB...LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
Man I feel you....I think you handled right...I don't know if it's blatant disrespect...Or just their effort to live through us, (make them feel good about themselves) because of their inability??...Any way I did like you....Early on in our marriage she did this a couple of times....I remember right where we were, when I set this boundary with her....We had just pulled out of a couples drive way (friends of ours, where she was volunteering me, lol) and I looked at her, and said "never make plans for my life, without getting my approval first...And I will be just as respectful to you!"...Most of my life, I've lived pretty much wide open ( I have just learned to relax a bit over the past 5 or 6 years) I sure didn't need someone making it worse :)...Especially someone who would never match it, and would abuse it...:)
c
You know I have a problem
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I would hear:
"You know I have a problem..." or it's cousin, "You know I have a problem with x..."
"It's how I am (so screw you or whatever, just deal with it ie. I won't change)
"You know I can't x because I have ADHD."
"I feel bad for you but that's on you." (In response to complaints about the high level of stress and poor health the situation caused.)
"No one ever told me x (or how to do xxx)"
In more introspective and honest moments, he would say something like "I want to change and be different, but I don't know what that looks like." EXCEPT, while I understood that me telling him was ineffective, he also refused to keep up with meds or go to therapy or coaching.
He loved to say he had ADHD and he couldn't help it EXCEPT he somehow managed to not let it affect him at work too much. By too much, I mean that he voluntarily moved to another company after 20 years and took a position 2 rungs below where he currently was, I think in response to pressure to perform and conform. He kept it in the box at work, but seemed to have no control at home.
Overall, one big excuse machine.
"No one ever told me"......fill in blank.
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I've heard this many times for situations DH has gotten into. I had wrote a long post about this, but my tablet died and I lost it. Arrrgh. Anyway, yes, he has always been angry about no one guiding him during his school years, and telling him what he should have done for his future.
DH has an exceptional IQ, (mensa type) and got straight A's all through school. He never had to study, and had a photographic memory. Aced every class, every test, especially math. (where he was exceptional) He was angry because no one "told him" he was a genius. He actually thought all the other kids were just being lazy and dumb because they didn't "SEE" how easy the subjects, and classes were. When THEY were the "normal" and he was different. I had to study hard to get any kind of decent grades, and Algebra was so hard for me.
I guess parents and teachers figure that if a youngster is "that" smart, he can also figure out what to be when he grows up. DH never thought about it, and never CHOSE anything. He went through school, and then 7 yrs of college for his M.A., and still didn't know what to do. He ended up teaching because that's all he was qualified to do, and didn't have anything else planned. Teaching is NOT a good choice for a person with ADHD. (But didn't know then about the ADHD)
He also finished his PhD while we were married. He does school well, so he kept on doing it. But, he didn' CHOOSE a profession for himself. I asked him about that. "You mean that during all thise years of college you never thought about what you wanted to BE"? .........." Nope" he said, " No one ever told me".......and I couldn't believe he never THOUGHT about his future. But yet, here he was in his late 20s, we were engaged, and he didn't know what to do. He didn't actually explain all this until after we were married, but this was a huge red flag. He was looking for a teaching job when I met him, and he found one, but was scared to death to actually DO it.
He does use the "No one told me", thing in other ways, but gets angry at us or others if we say that. We should already "know" whatever the situation is. It's one more example of contradictions and seemingly double standards. But, I am seeing areas where he REALLY doesn't see or "get" simple things that are just every day actions for us. I do wish he'd just finally open up and talk about it instead of ignoring these fears, thinking they'll just go away. Hates to conform also, and almost loves his "non-conformist" ways, but I see it as just another way of coping with things he can't seem to get.
Mensa IQ
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Wow, dede, I can`t even imagine the added layer this presents for him and you. He has a genius level IQ and incredible academic success, yet an executive functioning disorder that probably makes doing a simple load of laundry an impossible venture.. I can`t fathom how much harder it would be to accept an ADHD diagnosis in his case... and how much harder that makes things for you, too.
And I have great sympathy for your "non-conformist" point. Every day is filled with ways my husband insists on doing things in the strangest, most difficult ways. Changing two under-cabinet light bulbs took 6 months as he researched options that he could special order from other countries. I finally went to the store and bought two replacements for $10. He was angry because he "wasn't done researching." He will not hold a traditional job anymore because he doesn't want to pay taxes "like everyone else". He will look for any way to make money where he doesn't have to report it, no matter how strange or at what odd hours that means he has to do something. He thrives on that... feels so proud of bucking the system... but honestly, like you, I feel it may just be how he copes with things he can't seem to get (holding a 9-5 job). He puts in a load of laundry and programs it to stop before the spin cycle so he can manually choose the spin cycle when it's done. The problem is, that often takes him days to get to and by then, the laundry stinks and needs re-washing. Why??? Just... why? He bought a push mower for the lawn, when our lawn is undeniably riding-mower sized. He has to recharge the push mower 3 times to get the lawn finished (which means it never actually gets finished) and one lawn cutting now takes hours (spread over days) instead of 45 minutes in one shot on the old riding mower. Why???
I have seriously digressed. :)
1Melody1, laundry made me laugh out loud.
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I SO understand the laundry thing. I seriously laughed out loud, not at you, but at the familiarity of the situation. YES, a simple thing like pushing a button or changing a bulb always turns into major ordeal. LOL. Oh, my, I could tell you such stories.
DH believes himself to be quite a handyman, but anything and everything no matter HOW simple is always put together upsidedown, inside out, backwards, or just plain wrong. I expect everything to be done this way now, and am actually surprised when a task is done correctly the first time. This has been the cause of much frustration for himself, and me. And, it never ends.
A lot of it is his impatience while doing it. He wants to get it done as fast as possible, and.overlooks steps along the way. He KNOWS this, but it still keeps happening. And, of course many things get left undone, half finished, etc. My house currently has several half painted rooms, with many different colors. It's really odd looking because no room is finished. He just gets new paint and starts another room somewhere else. Another day in the life...lol. Hugs.
And I laughed at the half painted rooms!
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Well, now you'.ve made me laugh with the half painted rooms! :) I have taken over the painting in my house because when my husband does it, it is just as you described! Or it isn't applied evenly... a little here, there... over there... with a whole bunch of missed spots.
What you said about putting things together was very familiar to me. My husband won't admit to ADHD, but does admit he has an incredibly hard time following instructions and gets very frustrated that he can't assemble something simple (say... a small piece of IKEA furniture).
Hugs to you as well!
I can relate!
Submitted by Heart's Desire on
My husband can not caulk properly to save his life, which unfortunately made a few of the projects in our basement that he finished a mess (i.e. the shower is caulked terribly, and he caulked a cabinet he built before it was painted with silicone caulking that can't be painted over. Guess who was the painter in the project? Me. So it was a disaster to get finished in a reasonable way that didn't look like shit). Luckily we've sold the place, so it ended up ok, but he could never admit that he made a mistake or just say "shoot, that sucks. Let's find a solution", he just would turn it into a fight with me. I totally think he felt deep shame about it, but hated that feeling so he would lash out in return at me. Ex: he always said he would be using the basement shower daily once it was finished and was excited about it. But then he never did take a shower down there. I think he couldn't stand to see the terrible caulking. Of course, he would never ever admit that he made a mistake and he should leave that to people that know what they are doing (e.x. my brothers are professionals that work with caulking all the time and offered to do it). I will never do a house project with him again. It almost destroyed our marriage and caused huge unnecessary stress because everything I suggested he would turn into a reason that I didn't trust his expertise.
"Let's find a solution"
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
That's all I ever want... a willingness to work together to solve the issue. I understand my husband's limitations and have always been happy and overly supportive when he simply tries. But when things don't work out, the angry aftermath or avoidance (just as you described) makes me crazy.
Our basement had a flood two years ago that soaked our virtually brand new carpeting. We had no choice but to pull it up to dry it properly and prevent mold. My husband cut it and could not lay it back down properly. I really wanted to call insurance in the first place, but that is not the point and I didn't once mention that after he decided to pull the carpet up himself. However, once the carpeting could not go back in place, I suggested we either call a professional to see if it could be salvaged and/or get quotes on new carpeting. Two years later, neither has happened and I am embarrassed of our once-beautiful basement, still in a mess. He will not acknowledge it. There are so many things like this in our house, some big and some small. I am terrified about trying to sell this house when we split because of all of these issues. There is so much undone and our market is the type of market where everyone stages their houses to perfection in order to sell. It is overwhelming.
Sort of fulfills the cliche of 'Absent-Minded Professor'
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Sort of fulfills the cliche of 'Absent-Minded Professor' which always makes people smile (but somehow we never hear about how the spouse deals with such a person.)