I've been my own worst enemy over the years, when conflict arises...In the name of seeking peace and resolution, I find my self taking a lot of abuse, because I feel as a husband I should be the aggressor in the restoration process...And that's fine and good at times (where we both took up the sword)...But it's wrong when I had no part in (took no part) her own internal anger, failed manipulation attempts, or when she disrespects boundaries and attempts to justifies it, with blame and silence....
We just spent 4 days at the LBL...(Land between the Lakes), and it was probably the best four day's we have spent together in quiet some time....We prayed together, we hiked several trails, we rode horses, we saw a fun 60's musical play...there was intimacy and love shared between us...Something we really needed as a couple....But it all ended about half way home....(Just to clarify, most of the 4 day's I allowed her to choose the activities just because it matter's more to her than to me....What matter's to me is love and peace between us)....
Because of our difference's we have...."Boundaries....(Acceptance and mutual respect for those differences)"....She thinks nothing about heading into rush hour traffic driving 50 or 60 miles in order to shop at some specialty store that isn't available in our town...I think it's ridiculous and wasteful when we have no less than 10 grocery stores with in 5 miles of home....But, it's her choice, her car, gas and money....So I just say...I love you, and drive safely,...And that's it....
She know's the only reason I would ever go to that larger city (barring an emergency) is when I absolutely couldn't find an item here, or maybe once a year to eat out...But those times would always be at low traffic times mid-morning or night....So she decided she was going to force me to abandon my boundary, and do something I hated, in order to appease her want....So when I told her, she knows I would never do that, but, that when we get home, she can do what ever she thinks in wise....So she got angry, and told me that I was going to PAY!...LOL....I told her, that is so sad...We just had four of the most beautiful day's of our marriage, and she couldn't even make it home before she turned disrespectful and evil....So it was quiet....And it's been quiet....
The mistake I've made so many times is trying to break the silence, and instigate a healthy environment of love and interaction....Which does a couple of things...One, it lets her off the hook, she needs to apologize for her actions (she needs to recognize she needs to apologize!) ....Secondly, a childish mind like she lives in ( frivolity seeking, selfish and unconcerned about others feelings, especially (me) the spouse) struggles to realize she is wrong, and I'm just being the bigger person trying to restore the peace between us.....(So blame and justification becomes her reality in these instances)
So what am I going to do about it ?? I'm going to just live happily, and thankful....(Keeping my 10 and 6 year old grandchildren tonight, fun fun :)...(be thankful for the 4 great days of closeness we had)...And live just like she doesn't exist...Because If I harbor emotions about her actions, I am being held hostage by her behaviors....I couldn't stop it, nor can I change it....
I will let her come to me, and If she takes ownership, then hopefully I will hug and kiss her and we will move on....If she doesn't take ownership, I want be drug into talking about it with her, if she is just looking to blame or justify it....I will just quietly move on....I can live with it, if she can....All it does is decrease the chance I will look to put myself out there for her....And it for sure makes us have to discuss boundaries in every little aspect of a trip...From the time we leave until the time we arrive home.....It's tiring, and doesn't seem worth it at times...LOL....
Thanks you for allowing me to see this self encouragement in writing....
c
Some of the hardest times
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
C, just wanted to say that my sympathy is with you. Reading your story had my heart pounding. I have experienced these moments with my husband where things are wonderful and peaceful and I can see the man I fell in love with versus the ADHD symptoms. Usually it is when we are away as you described and he is totally free from stressors and distractions (no responsibilities, little-no internet). My sympathy is with you because I too have weathered the crash that follows when they can't help but shatter that bliss. I am a realistic person, but always a hopeful person, and when things are up it hurts that much more when they come down again.
I think your ability to think through your reactions so clearly is admirable. I wish I could do that as quickly. I am usually a jumble for days/weeks and by the time I'm clear on what I should say or what would be best to do, it's too late.
Happy you were able to have the joy of those four days though. :)
Melody...Realist, but, hopeful...Me too:)
Submitted by c ur self on
(I am usually a jumble for days/weeks and by the time I'm clear on what I should say or what would be best to do, it's too late.)
We all are, we're not robots, we can't be ready for that kind of change in demeanor in an instant...it's hurtful and it's shocking (even though deep down we always know it's possible and probable)...I just hope someday that I truly learn to not reply at all....The only sound a person deserves ( and it might help) to hear after such a disrespectful onslaught, is the echo of their own voice...
If I can ever learn to just say to my internal self...(LOST HER)...And turn my attention completely to something else, and completely refuse to give her any justification ammunition...Maybe someday;)
c
Same here
Submitted by adhd32 on
We just came back from a 4 day trip and we were not even out of the plane after the return flight landed when Mr. Hyde returned. All the glow of the previous few days was completely washed away at the luggage carousel. I knew it was coming, it always does. Welcome home, it was only a dream. Back to reality and those damn 10 foot cement boundaries.
Had a random thought today...
Submitted by c ur self on
What would happen if a man and women who had been subjected to this type of behavior for years, ended up getting together?? Speaking for myself I wouldn't know how to deal with a wife that I could talk to, who calmly owned her thoughts and feelings...Every time I came in the door and caught her working in the house, or cooking a meal...I would run apologize...We would probably fall over one another getting in each others way...And if she actually enjoyed intimacy...I would probably cry myself to sleep at night....Thankful tears of course:)
But the reality of someone being abandoned or widowed who had endured what so many of us has endured, we probably wouldn't be able to trust enough to enter into another relationship because of fear....I've been thinking for quiet some time now, that I need an extended trip alone....I may do that some time after the holidays...Lord willing....Just time to breathe, think and pray....I'm sure I could find a place I'm interested in...
c
I think about this, too
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I wonder about this as well. I am so afraid. Afraid to trust my own judgment after this happened. Afraid to trust others almost as much. Afraid of unconsciously bringing this 20+ years of baggage into another relationship, too. But I have to say I hope I get the chance to try someday. And I hope what I fear is baggage is actually growth/learning that will serve me well somehow.
It's difficult to not wish for better days....
Submitted by c ur self on
I am much older than you...I understand your feelings though....I had a wife (30 years) who passed away from cancer at age 49...She was my high school sweetheart...I remarried a year later...Marriage is a good life....If both spouses are invested fully....It's difficult when one or both ignore their responsibilities, and only seeks personal benefits, and self gratification.....Marriage can be a wonderful life, when both parties make it about giving....But, when we are forced to fill our lives w/ boundaries to protect ourselves from a partner who is irresponsible to their vows, or who lives foolishly or selfishly...It can make for difficult days....
I personally try to keep my faith strong (my eyes on the life giver) and not look for her to be (the thing) that can cause me to be disgruntled or at peace...I (WE) must face it...Look at the record of our past...What do we see?....When without the rose colored glasses, I view my mistakes in putting trust in someone to fill a role (the work of a marriage) that they by their actions, proves they don't like, and are even offended by...I must accept that, and manage my life choices from the perspective of this lived out truth....We can all be healthy and content when we accept reality, (ours and theirs) and find peace with it....(Don't expect it to be different, no matter what words or promises pass between their lips...We must believe what we see, we will be judged by our actions....Words are just wind blowing the fall leaves around....
c
I have thought about this for
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I have thought about this for myself a lot. I don't think I will ever be in another relationship. It's a combination of lack of trust of potential romantic partners and the suspicion that there is something wrong with me that could cause another man to leave me.
I'm betting you are fine....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've read your posts for years...You write thoughtfully...I'm betting you are easy to love, and only want what was vowed to you at the alter....To be loved and respected...To be cared for....I think most of us just want to love and be loved...The way it was intended...
Even our spouses (or former spouses)...Sadly, some just don't have an ability (heart or mind) to engage with another human on such an intimate level...
Bless you...
c
Luck of the draw
Submitted by jennalemone on
So today I am invited for a grouping with 4 female relatives from various cities around the state. VERY strong personalities in 2.5 of them. So much that the 2 strongest one's cannot ride in the same care. That means that I have a 2 hour ride with a sister who I will have to try very hard to NOT roll my eyes over and over. So my question is for myself, what is more important to me...keeping my sanity or putting myself in positions of fight or flight (deer in the woods) with this person....who is my sister. It FEELS very similar to being with my husband. WHICH is the confrontations of fight or flight constantly. Getting drained of my own energy because I am by nature an empath and I WANT to connect and converse intimately. But I will start the day with boundaries and a good perspective and I know by the end of the day I will regret having gone at all...raked over the coals and covertaly "attacked" seeimingly for HER fun (or maybe she is just more of a narcissist and loud). There is no way for me to get what I want out of this outing. What I WANT is some connection, some sense of familial caring about each other, some relaxation and fun and laughs, a sense of "we are on the same page" a few times. I will get the laughs and fun, some "same page" moments, but it will end with sharp subtle barbs, covert and out and out disloyalty, some catty remarks that they don't feel any pain giving out. I have trouble ignoring the cattiness...because there is always some truth with the barbs and catty remarks and sometimes I don't realize the meaning behind the barb at the moment but later realize "She did it again."....got in another zinger. (families know each other's weaknesses so well). They laugh after shelling them out but I am not wanting to give them out back myself. We are going to a casino, which I don't care for but they seem crazy about the activity. I do want to see family and have dinner with everyone. So I will sit around in lobbies and restaurants and bars hoping to strike up a few conversations with strangers and maybe also read a book while they spend a few hours pulling on levers.
My point is, there are people and places and situations where you feel you belong, have those comfy connections, look forward to. And then there are people and places where you must steel yourself. Sometimes you let down your guard and feel a part of the group and share more than you should because you have let your boundaries down. At the end you find yourself sabotaged or trampled on AGAIN! It is disappointing and unfortunate but that is life. There is someone out there for everyone. The luck is in falling in with people who you belong with on the empath–narcissist scale.
So, I realize, to stay in the game of sisterhood, I should throw out some zingers too. I should probably take a little time this morning watching the Kardashians so that I have the attitude and vocabulary to keep up. Ugh!
A similar thing going on here right now
Submitted by Brindle on
There was also a boundary last week that I was asked to bend. I refused, and he has been angry for days. It’s a long-standing boundary, so it was no surprise. He hasn’t said “you’re going to pay!” but he might as well have.
I’m doing my best to just go about my business and be as kind to him as I would anyone else and not let his anger influence me. But it leads to a lot of second-guessing myself. “Would I do this if he wasn’t angry? If I don’t do this, will it look like I’m being petty?”
I can relate to the second
Submitted by SweetandSour on
I can relate to the second-guessing in general and the part about thinking that something will look petty in particular. It's tied into the lose-lose situations that my S.O. specializes in setting up. I can't go onto the screen room without thinking that he's thinking that I'm checking up on him (cause he's in another room that looks out onto it), but if I said, I'm out here to do "X" I'd look petty. Many things like that because he's so hostile and wants to be left alone all the time so I can't be natural anymore. He'll interpret my movements around the house as designed to get in his way or draw attention to myself, but then I think if I deliberately don't speak to him that I'm being passive-aggressive because I wouldn't act that way with anyone else and I don't want to act that way with him - but I don't want to get yelled at or ignored either. So, yeah, then you find yourself second-guessing as you say, thinking way too much about stuff you shouldn't have to think about at all.
wear a collar of Christmas bells
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Maybe you should wear a collar of Christmas bells so he'll just think you are in the holiday spirit while walking around the house. This paranoia symptom is a tough one.
Been their S&S
Submitted by c ur self on
I finally just decided I had to break that eggshell...So I just pop in any room any time, if I need to...If she wants a marriage w/ secrets, if she has things to hide from her husband...I'm not the guy for that type life style....Now I respect if she is into a tv program or on a phone call etc....When someone wants left (demands privacy in our own home) alone for long periods for their own spouse....It's really good to think about how you would feel, if that shoe was on the other foot....Yep, about the time your S.O. decides he is bored, and starts seeking you out....What would his expression be, if you decide he wasn't welcome in your presents for the next few hours....LOL...Yep....I hope you can flush that discomfort...Of course many people don't put their selves in other peoples shoes....So at that point, we have to decide if we want to subject ourselves to that behavior....
Hi again C!
Submitted by Susan2020 on
Hi again C!
So I read your comments on boundaries. When I try to maintain my boundaries I'm accused of being passive aggressive. I'm constantly being asked why I'm raising my voice or why I'm on the defensive. He will not accept the fact that he puts me on the defensive. He will question me sometimes as though I am lying to him and usually it's about something random and irrelevant. Other times he will compliment me to the hilt. Rave about me being organized and always helping him. So then i'm blind sided when he turns around and talks rudely to me but says he isnt while he's doing it! Sometimes I remain in silence because the conversation has gotten so ridiculous no normal person would continue it. I have, like you, known without a doubt that I deserved an apology. I have tried to remain cordial but never receive one. I have tried to discuss the verbal rudeness to explain why an apology is necessary and still never receive one. What I get is a day passes and the next day he acts like everything is fine. This is unacceptable behavior. I feel as though when I give in just to get some peace back, I am also enabling him to do the same the next time. If a conversation is brought up from the past he will deny the actual conversation, his version of the truth is not factual. I end up being a liar. I realize I need to look for solutions. I can only change me. I have never written about my circumstance until joining this site. It feels good to vent and know that others understand. I cannot share this with just anyone. As most people without experience with ADHD would not understand and would probably tell me to leave the relationship. I see him struggle and not wanting anyone to know he cannot keep his focus. But at a certain point, how much is the non ADHD supposed to take. There has to be a balance.
Susan
Submitted by c ur self on
Everything you've written in the two posts that are addressing me, is my life also....It's better to vent to an understanding ear,, than to someone who could never understand, even if they wanted to....The Key in all of this is acceptance...Because acceptance vs expectations is how we the spouse, stay in our best frame of mind....Lets talk ***Effect***....How we limit effect is by expecting it....If you look at your weather app tonight and it say's it's going to be 32 in the morning, you know how to best dress to handle it....If it say's 90% chance of rain, you know a raincoat and umbrella will be useful to keep you dry...If you are married to and add/adhd spouse in denial, you must keep a mental picture of all the limitations your mind and his mind produces, when communication is attempted....It effects every aspect of life....You must also be a patient person....Make boundaries on those things that are HIGH level conflict issues....Trips together are terrible (She has no ability to ask me, what do you think?? She just pumps our her opinions, her wants, and her desires LOL)....Bed time and sex is terrible, when she say's I'm coming right on in, that mean's 20 to 30 minutes, I use to get so frustrated and end up going to sleep, or ruining the mood for both of us...(mostly me, she is never in the mood) but I've learned to just keep reading my book etc)...I want go on, you may know the list, most do...LOL....We have to work in the relationship from the perspective of, what is possible? Never what do I want....
I've been married 12 years, (30 to my first wife who I lost to breast C at age 49) and the only person I should get upset with, when I trust her to think, feel and behave in any kind of predictable and sane manner is myself....You and I and so many many more who have spouses w/ high level add, and who's tendencies are to excuse their behaviors should expect all the symptoms and behaviors that follow....You have to know yourself....I'm an HSP...highly sensitive person...And that has been a curse w/ my life dealing w/ her...Because like you documented above...Little to no remorse or apologies, they act like their hard words and behaviors just vanish to netherland...If I didn't see her as hopelessly mentally unstable, I would have left her long ago.....But still, I have to walk away (boundaries) to protect my own mental and emotional state.....Because let's face it, were human, and we have feelings, so it's better to be wise and realize the broad, broad, spectrum of differing realities.....
The denying of actual conversations isn't 100% denial or defiant, w/ my wife anyway....A big part of it is her limited ability to have recall, especially when she is emotional (so many times, when she's in that death defying argumentive state, when you know they are wrong, they believe it!....Try to learn to stop pointing out unacceptable behaviors, because it keeps the past being dragged up....And to be honest between denial and no ability to remember facts (esp, about themselves, and their poor behaviors) you are just starting a bread new argument....When a person had rather cut there own throat, than to confess or even see their true reality, we who try to press them to speak about what was said or done aren't very wise...(I've been that unwise person way to often)....This truly will help you to not be defensive, but to smile and walk away, so as to stay out of that trap....But, again we are human, and it's easy to forget at times...But, we remember quickly, because it usually bites us when we drift into trying to think for them, or think they are thinking along w/ us...(They look ao normal :)
PS counseling together can be a huge mistake unless blame has died, and self-awareness is present...Which usually isn't the case where denial is present...It's not good to use a high dollar professional as a glorified referee....I suggest going to counseling separate for several sessions....IF it's effective for both, then you will know it... And then there can be real progress when you go together....Marriage Counseling is about two parties saying we are messed up, and we need help...One person with that attitude will suffer great disappointment, while the blame and deflecting is going on.....Just my thoughts and experience with it.....
c
Thank you C! I will take your
Submitted by Susan2020 on
Thank you C! I will take your advice on individual counseling. I thought if we went together he would/could begin to understand the feelings I have as well. But I see this is probably not the case. He will become the victim and feel gained up on. The ironic thing is he insist that I am ADHD! LOL because I refuse to always give 200% attention to everything he says. After a while I stop listening. This isnt ADHD it is my boundary of I don't have to listen just because you are talking/every time you speak. I also agree with you in the fact that they really don't remember what they say in an argument. It's just words spewing out from anger. nothing factual at all. I need to choose my battles but sometimes I simply retreat. The less I say the less chance of an argument. But that's not who I want to be. I'll keep working on it and somehow find time for counseling....
Your own counselor.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Individual counseling is the way to go. I was ganged up on by my ex husband and two different therapists, twice. The first time, she accused me of things that simply were not true. I was completely blindsided and broke down in tears, unable to speak. Years later, a few months before I filed for divorce, the therapist told me I had an anger issue without knowing me. (My ex abused me for over a decade, could that be the reason?) Also, she strictly went by what he told her, and believed all our marriage problems were my fault.
I'm thankful you both gave me
Submitted by Susan2020 on
I'm thankful you both gave me this advise. I was so sure couple counseling would help. So it would be ok for us both to go see the same counselor just at separate times? I want to make sure the same individual knows us both. Because as you say the ADHD person will say things that might seem true to them but, in fact, are far frrom the truth. I have been accused of being angry and defensive. And again, it's typically while he is being verbally aggressive towards me lol. Who wouldnt be angry! When someone is aggressive towards him I am supposed to stand up for him. No win situation. It's very upsetting because this person loves me very much and has done so many things for me. Little things that truely count. But it's always me ending up overlooking so that we can get back on track. After a period of years resentment builds up, and worrying about what I say or don't say is more important than just enjoying our relationship. It's hard for me to comprehend because I am NOT in that same mindset. And I realize it's hard for him because he is not in a normal mindset at all.
Thank you again.
S
Fighting back!
Submitted by c ur self on
The first counselor my wife and I went to said I needed anger management with in 30 minutes of talking to us....She stonewalled him...I spoke the emotional truth...A truth that had formed my emotional and metal state (neglect, abuse, intrusiveness, abandonment, no loving effort, no energy in the home or relationship, constant control and manipulation attempts) in bad way.....I was fighting back....I had been used, and disrespected....
So Adele's experience isn't uncommon.....I was a 51 year old man, who had no history of anger....I was considered a nice guy who was friendly and approachable.....But the truth of it is....I was the basket case of the two....I was dumping out the behaviors (reactions) that had formed me from what I had been subjected to, and he had no capacity to understand it (the behaviors I had been subjected to).....But to his credit, he was right....I was responsible for my own anger and emotions.....Not everyone is fit to be in a marriage relationship, but, that doesn't stop them from jumping in....That is the main problem, when we refuse to respect and honor our spouse, and do the work we vowed to do, only damage occurs....
Only Jesus has rescued me, from me!....I had to have his wisdom to see her mental illness, and her selfishness (self-absorbed mind)....I had to set boundaries for both of us, and allow myself to step away and experience healing for my anger and bitterness....I had to learn how to truly pray for her, and us....My heart was bitter, and the Lord had to reveal to me, that I didn't want to forfeit it....I was clinging to it, for my protection, instead of (trusting) him....
I'm not afraid to Love, but, I don't place expectations on human beings to not be selfish, (definitly me included)....As I read and learn about the life of Jesus, he never allowed himself to be to upset by what men said or did....(even the cross)...Because he know's what's in my (man's) heart, especially when his Spirit isn't given the liberty (trust him by faith) to lead me....
Mellisa recognize's the effects of living w/ add/adhd, all the negative behaviors that the spouse is subected to, in her book....She talks about how anger in the non, is something that is common much of the time....Of course, she encourges the non's to own it, and work through it.....Which of course is right on....
c
Boundaries
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Regardless of what your husband calls it, maintain those Boundaries. We place Boundaries for a reason, that's why they're called BOUNDARIES. Our boundaries aren't there to make others happy, or to please them. Stay strong, and don't allow yourself to be worn down.
--A
Adele,
Submitted by Susan2020 on
Adele,
You are absolutely correct in that I need to keep my boundaries, no matter what it is called. Of course it will be perceived as a negative action towards him. I have to remember I don't need to make him understand every situation to make it ok. It doesn't matter if he doesn't agree or understand, for my sanity I have to do what helps me. I'm slowly making changes now. I do not want to end up retired feeling defeated and allowing someone to always be argumentive and getting their way. That's not quality of life for me. I've worked to hard to be unhappy in my later years. We all have and we can only change so much.