He sucks the my joy of giving right out of me. I am a nurturer. My mother and my sisters are as well. We have been married 25 years and I have always had to ask for a massage or foot rub or for a favor and most times I can see a slight look of "oh God" in his face. When I ask him for a favor or a massage it's because I am in severe pain. That being said, the other day, he was complaining about how his knee and feet hurt. We were both a t a three day convetion and were both pretty tired and achey. As usual, even though I always promise myself that I won't budge and massage him, I give in since that is my nature, to make people feel good. So, I got some lotion, told him to get ready and relax since I was going to massage his feet. He was surprised. I puffed a a pillow so he could lay back. But right before I did that, I told him I understand his pain since my feet hurt too and he agreed that my ankles were so swollen. I have plantar issues and am always in pain and he usually says, "aww poor baby" and continues what he is doing. So anyway, he starts to get comfortable and I say in the cutest baby voice "maybe after I am done you can massage mine". His face changed. He looked bothered. He sat up in the bed and said, "forget it, you don't have to massage mine." I was confused and hurt. I said, "do you mean to tell me that you would rather not get massaged to avoid massaging mine?" He avoided the question. Then he said, "well, I figure, since it should be a 'one hand washes the other' you don't have to massage my feet. I put the cream down and I shut down completely. He went to shower and I went to bed with pounding feet. After he started snoring, I started crying out of anger and I went to the couch where my sister, who was staying over, was hanging out. She was concerned and I told her what happened. Of course, she grabbed the lotion asap and massaged my feet. The next day, he said he was tired and that is why he didn't massage my feet and then he said he would later that day. He didn't. I can have the worst migraine or neck pain and he won't offer a rubdown. This was so majorly painful and left me feeling angry. All these years I have done everything and anything to please him, tolerated his behaviors, his terrible temper, illogicalness, neglect of me to watch tv, play on laptop and now his Ipad, sleeping alone, etc. I have pulled back a lot and have to force myself to not jump to be at his beck and call when he complains about pain. How sad that I have to go against my grain. I don't think it loving that he can CHOOSE to not reciprocate when I offer first out of my heart. I will not force this on him since I deserve unsolicited love after 25 years of hell. Then when I seem distant, he plays this game of catering to me and sucking up and as soon as I let down my guard, he goes back to being Al Bundee. It's never consistent and I am left disappointed again, especially in myself for having expectations. His favorite line since being diagnosed with ADHD, and PTSD (by a therapist he went to ONCE because I left him for three weeks after an emotional breakdown) is "my brain is not wired like that". Let me get this straight, your wife is in pain, her swollen ankles are in your face, she offers to massage your feet even though she is tired and asks for you to help her out too, and your brain can't figure out that it would be loving to says, "of course"? How I wish that I was married to a man that was just like me. I feel duped since of course, I got 2 hr massages when I was in NO pain when we were dating. It is just so hurtful. But he says I mean the world to him and he loves me. Yeah, not the way I want to be loved. Funny how he can cater to everyone else though. I will not ask for anything again just to avoid the cutting of the eyes and the face that looks as if he just sucked on a lemon. I will pay for my massages from now on. Of course, he will tell others that I don't massage him anymore and try to make me look bad, never mentioning that he doen't do for me. My friends know how nurturing I am though so there is no need to defend myself to ANYONE. It just sucks to know you chose someone to be with forever but you get no benefits other than a paycheck. Emotional withdrawals and the short end of the stick. His "love" has changed me so much in the marriage department but it will not change who I am at the core in the other areas of my life that are absolutely fabulous. Have a wonderful day everyone. Much love.
He sucks the my joy of giving right out of me
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on 07/29/2015.
Three or four years ago,
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Three or four years ago, several years into my husband's pattern of extended unemployment, not looking for jobs, not helping around the house, and emotional withdrawal from me and our daughters (i.e., meaning that I do almost everything for family, house, and finances), I said to my husband that I felt hurt that I couldn't rely on him to help, and he said, "I can barely take care of myself." Ouch.
Ouch is right
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
It is what it is, right? We are strong and independent married women. I don't know if mine is aware but indifferent, oblivious or truly can't and is incapable. I do everything in the house and nothing is an emergency anymore. If the wash piles up, oh well. He can go commando. We have no children which for me is a fortunate thing, even though I would like one or two. I don't look forward to going home to the same ole but hey, tomorrow is Karaoke night for me. I live for the things that make me feel good, it's just not in marriage. Not my fault, not at all. If we never met, another woman would have the same issues. If he were single, he would still be a mess. These issues are pre-marriage and stem from his childhood. I am just caught up in the mess. I choose to separate my path from his and realizing somedays the paths have to cross but I find my way again.
I hear you...NGLM
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm with you; it can be difficult to keep our emotions in check, and stay encouraged when affection sharing is so one sided. It's amazing how much some spouses love being married as long they are on the receiving end of all the petting...And I want get into the rest of the list there is very little participation in...LOL...
I'm trying something new (TRYING) LOL...I expect one of two things may happen, IF I can pull this off...Either, she will be forced out of some of the denial and start getting some snap shots of herself, her responsibilities in the marriage and home... OR, our relationship (any two being one sharing) will basically die....
It's just so hard for me as a husband, and someone who wants to love his wife to not pick up the slack in the mundane and responsible things in life and initiate intimate sharing....Plus I'm a type A, happy guy, who loves to talk:)...So to withdraw even for a short to time to see how she responds is against my nature....
But, the reality is if two aren't working at this marriage thing...You don't have one anyway....Not anything that resembles anything healthy anyway....
Exactly my feelings
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
C Ur Self, it's so true. I am happy, funny, bubbly and he is miserable, unless he is center of attention. I try hard to not let it get me down but even the strong can be bent a bit. We can try all we want...I feel it will always be one sided. I started at 17 and I am almost 43. Yeah....people say that any man would want me for their wife. Wahhhhhh!
Outlook...
Submitted by c ur self on
I hear you...But even as realist we have to protect ourselves from hopelessness with our mates....God loves us and them, and he can do what we cannot do or even fathom....Since I retired, between the gym and my bike and this Alabama sunshine...I'm probably in the best shape of my life....I've even got abs again LOL...My wife walked in the bedroom while I was changing the other day and said..."You need to find a young wife to satisfy you" (that was a first for her)....I said something like...No, all I need is the one I have to appreciate it.....
Wow, C
Submitted by kellyj on
I have to chime in here C. ."You need to find a young wife to satisfy you" (that was a first for her)....I said something like...No, all I need is the one I have to appreciate it..... This is victim language all over the place! Going off you last post....what's the worst thing that can happen if you assert yourself and say this is enough. I am NOT happy and something MUST change? Either she leaves or she doesn't. She knows you won't leave and that much is clear. It's a scary proposition to think about the one alternative....I would be afraid of that myself but.....that fear is what is working against you and what she is counting on. I hate to say this but it's the truth. You already stated that this is not a marriage and I don't think she is playing by the same rules you are either. That's why it's not a marriage....know what I mean? I've been where you are and there is a likely hood that she might leave.....I have a feeling she is putting that out there or else you would not be feeling the way you do. I think this is a test and she has been testing you for a long time. Each time she does......you do what you do. Try harder and put more in. See how that works?
How about you turn that around and do the same thing with her. It sounds like you are TRYING to do this but not very well. You are still holding back and she can sense that in you. She knows you too well. If you are going to do it.....do it RIGHT! All or nothing....there is no in between. You don't have to compromise your values or beliefs and use her fear against her or threaten to leave. I wouldn't believe you anyway if you said that.....you have made that very clear. lol
But you do not have to put up with (a child) basically. This is what little children do....they test their parents to see how far they will go. Sounds more like that to me than someone who is actually going to leave? And do you think she will find anyone as forgiving and loving as you? I don't think so. I also think she knows that too.
Stand up....say no and put your foot down and do it knowing full well (and be ready on all levels) for her to pack up and leave. Be ready for it....own it....and then do it! I'll bet she will respond differently than you think. That "you need to find a young wife to satisfy you" is her rolling on her back (like a dog does) and wanting you to feel sorry for her and scratch her belly. You responding in kind "no, all I need is the one I have to appreciate it" is just that. Responding in kind.
This trying you say you are doing sounds half hearted. Something is holding you back and I think what I just said is exactly it. As Yoda said, "No try...DO. That is why you fail." :)
J
Thanks for you comment J
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm doing what you say, but w/ her verbal doesn't work, due to denial, blame, and no memory....Also it's time for no more strained emotions....Only quiet clarity!
The reality with her is she is likely to say just about anything, she's been terrible lately, if I ignore it, she apologizes in 5 minutes...It's sad really, it may be her reality, but she is wired w/ a mind that is unbelievable...She is just like a child in most everything in life....She is a smiling happy loving person, who gets up wanting something and goes to bed wanting something...Desires Co-Dependency worse than anybody I remember being around...I've named it a User:)....She lives in denial and is a severe add,, and I think has some bi-polar behaviors also....
She only knows how to focus one thing at a time....If it's just me and her, it's all about us (what she want's for us)...If she's around her grown son's, she has to put her marriage commitment on hold so she can hyper focuses on them and their activity's....She has never grown up emotionally....She carries baggage and guilt from having two boy's out of wedlock and if she had her way they would be emotional cripples...She can't see her actions....
I did put my foot down a while back, and I've been moving on with my life....I just have to be quiet and allow her space without any input from me, so she has no one to blame for the fruit of her actions....
I read a good article that describes her.....It's entitled: A person who can't control their own life, will always live to control others.....
C
I Hear You C
Submitted by kellyj on
And I feel for you too. Entitled = victim. That's a tough one to get around. Only that person has any power to change that. Unfortunately...you can only do what you can do in that case. You can't make another person change. I suppose on some level.....if a person knows deep down that they are truly dysfunctional and they believe they have done everything they can already.....there is not much hope to get them to try again ( or any harder ). If that's the case then they will feel that they can't rather than won't and become a victim. A leaf blowing in the wind. I don't know if this is ADD or not? How can they tell if someone is severe? A person might be considered severe who has it and doesn't function but doesn't try or gives up too quickly based on how dysfunctional they are.....or the same person who tries really hard and functions pretty well under the same circumstances might not be considered severe. How can they tell? From what I have read at least.....this is a difficult determination and they are not 100% in the ability to make this kind of determination? But I could be wrong because I have no idea ... but I do wonder about this myself.
One More Thing C...
Submitted by kellyj on
I had a flash back in my T's office (this is one of his favorites) I could hear him now, asking your wife " now...how long ago did you say you had those children out of wedlock? That long ago huh? Mmm....well, what else has happened between then and now that is causing you so much trouble in your life?"
Only you can make me laugh about it....
Submitted by c ur self on
No since in crying :)
I'm just going to do my best to stay aware of me, no matter how much I want to encourage or engage the independent rebellion....I've got to allow it to run it's course w/o me putting a dog in the hunt....I've been to easy of a target for her blame and denial....It's will come to a head...One way or the other....I'm just tired...
Good night friend...I appreciate you!
Oh honey--I feel your pain
Submitted by dvance on
Oh honey--I feel your pain and loneliness. The thing that scares me the most is not DHs lack of basic emotional skills, it's how much of myself has gone away. It's been YEARS since I got or gave a massage. DH does pretty physical work and often limps around or cracks his back or flinches but if I ask what hurts he says nothing. Really? I just saw you act like something is painful. Or I will hear the Aleve bottle rattle and ask him what's the matter and he says nothing. So strange. So I don't even ask any more. How sad that I don't react to another person's discomfort any more. Gift giving sucks--after 20+ years together I am not hung up on gifts for gods sake but I do like the kids to get their dad something for birthday and Christmas, but when I ask him a few weeks before an occasion what he would like, he says he doesn't need anything. Okay, thanks. So whatever I end up getting often goes unused or is forgotten about. It just happened on Father's Day--he couldn't think of anything so I got him a year membership to Birch Box, which is this service where once a month he gets a box of cool stuff--samples of men's grooming stuff, maybe sports related stuff, that kind of thing. The first box came in July and two of the three items inside are still sitting on his dresser untouched. So why did I bother? Ditto clothes, treats (like food), stuff like that. So I totally get that feeling that your joy of giving is being sucked away. It's hard to WANT to give knowing it will either be rejected or go unnoticed and certainly not reciprocated.
Wow, that is interesting!
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
My husband will take ANYTHING I give him, except if, as in this case, I would have appreciated a massage also. I used to give him things ALL the time. shirts and ties to make him look polished, a new action figure (he loves comic books and anything a child does) gifts just because.Now I think about it in the store, I even pick up the item and then I walk away. But "his brain isn't wired like that" so I get maybe one a year. I realize this is one more than many on this forum get. So I am matching his one gift (anniversary) and learning to gift to MYSELF more. Yes, I went to the MAC store Tuesday for a new luscious lipstick! Dvance, just be sure that your gift of giving doesn't bleed into your relationships with others who do know how to appreciate and at times reciprocate. There are plenty of two sided relationships you can experience and be a part of. I know that my family and friends are fabulous and amazing people. I give to them. It's not to say that I don't do anything nice for my husband anymore, but I am selective now and don't bend over backwards to do for him. If giving to him will leave ME depleted, then I CHOOSE ME. It's a shame because they could have SO MUCH if they just made the effort to think of someone other than themselves or maybe just thought of someone (even themselves). The idea of brownie points is lost it seems with him. Like yesterday it was a hard depressing day for me. I just felt blah. He was off ALL day and when I got home and he was working on one of his projects in the garage. I waved at him and kept walking to the apt. I was in no mood to do all the work to ask how his day was since he doesn't bother to call or text throughout the day anyway. I went upstairs and the stove was clean. No dinner for the wife who worked all day. But I decided to not make a big deal of it so as to not give him yet more more thing to say he is a failure at or that he sucks at. I took a bubble bath instead. He then tells me to get dressed quick and he would take me out to eat. I told him I was ok and that I was tired and would pass. Then I took a nap. All for me. He then went out and got something for himself. He can't stop an hour early from doing what HE WANTS to do to take care of me. His brain isn't wired like that, right? I am glad I chose to relax in a bath and take a nap otherwise I would have been irritable and probably made a mess of our evening. I choose me. I choose peace for myself. I choose to let him be. He has been this way all of our marriage so why do I expect a change? I won't nag anymore. All it does is get him more upset at himself for failing as a husband and it may get me malicious obedience. I don't want that. So, I dote on others, a little on him and a lot on me. :)
One common theme w most of us....
Submitted by c ur self on
I've noticed one common theme w/ most of the poster's here and it's been something I've been aware of for quiet some time....When reading many posts I here disappointment in the content based on unfulfilled expectations...This may be unavoidable for the human brain, but it is Key! or I should say is for me.....
By the time ( very little time together and very little meaningful content when we are together due to denial) my wife and I share our feelings with one another about what we would like or feel we need in life (what is a healthy marriage?) most times there is already disappointments and that has set in...And the content sharing doesn't come out as loving requests or as a need in my life...Which if someone is selfish already, any request will be assigned as selfish...We always project our own emotions, because it's our only baseline...Its were we live, our reality....
Then I start feeling like some of these posts...OK, then lets see what you get from me....I know it's the natural tendencies, but, it want fix the relationship:) It just drives us further away from each other...
It is so difficult to not get in this trap....The only way I've found to avoid it at times, is to try and share my feelings in a quiet loving moment....And then go about life, like I'm totally alone as so I don't get caught up in my mind measuring the effect of my needs against her amount of effort given to those needs....In other words, just be thankful for any amount of love and attention she produces toward me. And receive it thankfully, but never expect it.....Is this possible to sustain indefinitely?
Because like some of you just posted here....More times than not, if I can't battle off the expectations that so easily attack my mind, then even my spirit is damaged and I become less effective as a husband and provider because the next step is always....Competitive...I'll show you!...So sad, were only human...LOL....
Expectations....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I don't believe that I have unrealistic expectations. I'm not someone who expects to be doted on. However, I've had enough very close relationships with other couples, including siblings and their spouses, to see that other spouses do not behave like my H does.
Others can entertain, go to others' homes, without any fear that their spouses are going to erupt, insult someone, over-react, etc. They don't have any fear that their spouses are going to suddenly say, "I'm not going unless you apologize" (for something you didn't do). Sure, they all have their issues, but their issues are minor compared to what I have to deal with. They all wish I could divorce my H, but they know that I would be financially devasted.
It must be nice, huh?
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
It must be nice to have that type of marriage. I know I always wonder what my husband will do that will have people saying "WTH?" but that is not my issue anymore. It makes him look off, bad, unbalance and frankly, our old friends and new people he meets deduce the same. The only time I step in is when he oversteps his boundaries with me. Otherwise I just let him be his own train wreck. I don't make excuses for him anymore either. People actually expect that behavior from him now so it's a lot easier. I look like a saint.
Hi...OWW
Submitted by c ur self on
I understand completely...there are 4 key words in your post to me...."Behave like my H does"....The other stuff in your post is your feelings and fears related to these 4 words. I'm the same as you...I've got to deal with your 4 words...."Behave like my W does"....So since this behavior is fixed...It's not in my power to do anything about it. So what to do?....There is only one thing that I can see....I have to search my heart for what if any action I can take to lesson the effects of her behavior on me....So I've decided I can do two things that will help...Leave, which I'm not willing to do at this point...Or, do a better job of dealing with how she behaves....I've been the glue...I'm unsticking myself....
C
One thought OWW concerning Placing Expectations...
Submitted by c ur self on
(I don't believe that I have unrealistic expectations. )
I don't believe you do either overwhelmedwife and I would venture to say; neither does most of the married posters on this site...But, what is reality? Reality is even though you and I and many others can agree (minds that or capable and willing) or respectfully disagree on some issues concerning marriage and the simple responsibilities of day to day living, it doesn't matter because it's not reality for all minds.
The definition or the term expectation or realistic expectation means your projecting your wishes on another and seeking their compliance, agreement or at the least an effort to come to a mutually satisfying result (fulfillment of the expectation)...If the mind your dealing with is void of the ability or desire to reason, for what ever reason, then our realistic expectations may still be realistic in our minds, but, in a closed mind it becomes of non-effect....
So at this point I the expectation holder, the one who is seeking stability in reason, understanding and reasonable accommodations from the person who is void of the capability or willingness, for whatever reason...Must see this reality and not attach our own negative emotions to this impasse or we run the risk, and usually do, become our own worst enemy. We had rather press into a closed mind than look for fulfillment elsewhere, so there goes our peaceful existence.
"The light shined into Darkness; but, the Darkness Comprehended it not"
C
Is this possible to sustain indefinitely?
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
That is the question, isn't it? It will be painful, sad, disheartening but if we can vent and find support, knowing that not much will change due to lack of desire, complacency or obliviousness, we can make it. I agree about taking the little they give us and never expecting it. At the same time, I think that I will need to unlearn being over mushy and romantic since I know he is hyper-focused on all else until he is in that type of mood. That book The 5 Languages of Love is great. The only issue is that although we have loved them so much, perhaps over doing the love since they would be content with much less and we would save energy and time and money (gifts), will they ever WANT to learn our language? Do they care? When we cry and hurt and they seem untouched or moved, how is that balanced? It feels like you love a robot. But such is the definition of ADHD along with any narcissistic, bipolar and selfish tendencies swirled in the mix.
I can and will survive. How do I know? I am here, smiling, mostly happy TODAY, have a wonderful life outside my strained and unbalanced marriage. I have a strong faith in God and I know he has provided me great family and friends to encourage me and love me the way that I need to be loved. I have a measure of peace when not around my spouse and when we are together I am learning to let go and be calm and put on my music and ignore a lot since most of the rants are 10 minutes long unless I add my input or emotions to it, then it is worse. I also know that should his temper ever rear its ugly head again, I don't want to fall into a puddle of tears, but I will take my leave, go out to dinner and return when the coast is clear. I will let him deal with his demons alone since they are not mine. Lots of changes to make and follow through with.
I learned the difference between loyalty and faithfulness last night. Loyalty is being attached to someone out of love and faithfulness is staying there more due to law. Because of his behavior, I still have love but I stay due to my vow to God. If things became abusive, I would leave however, I can't say that I am loyal. Is this my fault? No. Either way I stay but the reason is different now. We are only human and our heart can't be in love with pain.
Love this post notgonnaloosemyself....
Submitted by c ur self on
Things like the 5 love language book probably shouldn't be read by Romantic's like myself.(I've read it)...It may possibly create unrealistic desires for me..;(...
Thanks for your encouragement....I'm smiling too...God is good...I just need his wisdom, of course I'm in luck because the bible say's if you lack wisdom ask God, who gives to all men liberally....
Wise as a Serpent, but, harmless as a Dove:)
C
Excellent Post C, The Grass Is NOT Greener
Submitted by kellyj on
You makes some good points here. Expectations are a real source for trouble if you are locked into only one way of thinking. I should know....I have been divorced twice. Of course.....since I am perfect and there is absolutely nothing wrong with me.....it was the expectations of my two ex-wives that were the problem and my expectations are as sound and perfect as I am. ha ha (sorry, just in that kind of mood lol)
In the real world in which I live in......I have found that my expectations were the source of most if not all of my issues from the past. Since I have been in more than one marriage (and several other long term relationships ...3-4 years) in my life. I can attest that with each new person I have been with...comes an entirely new and different set of expectations that vary dramatically from one to the next. People have their weirdness's and I am no different than anyone else. It's really easy to cherry pick the issues you are having with one person and forget that another person is going to have a different set of issues no matter who yur are with.
I have found from this expereince....that the fewer expectations I have....the fewer problems I run into on my end. Within reason of course. Just say'in:)
J
Yep J...
Submitted by c ur self on
I have found from this experience....that the fewer expectations I have....the fewer problems I run into on my end....It also forces me to be a big boy, and not get caught up blaming or using others as an excuse for my own sin....
Everyones' problems are not equal....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<
I can attest that with each new person I have been with...comes an entirely new and different set of expectations that vary dramatically from one to the next. People have their weirdness's and I am no different than anyone else. It's really easy to cherry pick the issues you are having with one person and forget that another person is going to have a different set of issues no matter who yur are with.
<<
Absolutely.
I know that other couples have "their issues". But, the difference is that their issues don't involve ABUSE.
They may say things like, "H is driving me crazy. He leaves his dirty socks all over the house." Or "H drives me crazy. He wants to go on a golfing vacation and I want to go to Hawaii." Or "W drives me nuts. She must own 60 pairs of shoes." Or "W drives me crazy. She spends an hour a day on the phone with her sister. I can't figure out what they have to talk about everyday."
Those things are simple annoyances. They aren't mental, physical or emotional abuse. Some are mildly selfish. But, they don't rise to the level of what many of us are experiencing.
I agree with Overwhelmed Wife
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I agree with Overwhelmed Wife. I'm bothered by the implication that having expectations makes me a bad person. I understand if a person chooses to lower or eliminate their expectations so that he or she can cope better with a situation in which he or she has decided to stay. But I don't think that means I'm wrong to keep my expectations of a tolerable marriage. In my case, my expectations include the following: that my spouse will have a job; that my spouse will on occasion put my interests above those of his parents and siblings and himself; that my spouse will communicate with me. He currently fulfills the first expectation; he has not fulfilled the others in many years.
Rosered I hope you didn't read me wrong...
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm not advocating we are bad for wanting our spouses to honor us and honor the vows they made to us...But, when they refuse....I learned the hard way I had to accept that....It doesn't matter how much Hell I put my nervous system through.....My pain had no power to make her see or change.....So I realized I had to find my peace again and accept that she don't care or isn't capable of caring....
So, now I'm learning how to live my life again...And just be responsibly as I can w/o focusing on what I have no power to change with her or anyone else.
Accepting her freed me, from the stress of counting on her to be a wife.....I don't expect anything different.....I may pray for her to be able to look inward, but, I try to leave it God's hands....It's a burden that I wasn't able to carry....
I wasn't a fit friend or Father...I was miserable, and the pain of it was consumming me....
I understand....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I'm still not sure what your wife does that is ADHD or "wrong". I'm sure that she does many things wrong, but what are some examples of extreme behaviors besides some messiness, etc.
Does she call you names? Does she scream at you for 30 minutes or more? Does she yell at you in public? Does she say outrageous things to others? Does she have no filter?
Do others notice that there is something seriously wrong with her?
Does she have any addictions?
It sounds like her biggest failing is that she lived alone for so long (without a mate) that she became further hard-wired into thinking as the "sole adult" in the household. But, I could be very wrong in my guesses.
Details are depressing...Had rather just count my blessings...:)
Submitted by c ur self on
I could fill this page up with what I've dealt with and deal with for 7 years....But, it wouldn't solve one thing...And it's not fair, she's not here to fill up her own page:)...I will just say most of what you listed above OWW is true...She and I had so many things stacked against us...My past was with a wife I grew up with ( married at 20- breast cancer disease took her carnal life at 50) who was a meek, loving person, who had full faith and Trust in me as a Husband and Father (most of the time:)....
My present wife whom had never been married, but, had suffered through some bad relationships came along and So I; Mr Naive ...(who had no clue of what add and denial was) who believed with Faith in God, Love, Commitment and hard work you could conquer the world;).
So with my rose colored glasses on I charged head long into this marriage...The sooner the better right? LOL...so to think she could see me as a gift of love to her really makes me laugh now...LOL....I was up early an always on time or early...She and I could not be more opposite in the Living of Life...But, we are both Christians....So that is the only reason we are still together today!...We both hate the word quit!!! It's good when we need to persevere in life...But, it's hell when we fight..:)
So my living of life has been a torch to her soul and her's to mine....She's incapable of putting me ahead of her two Son's another thorn in my flesh. So It had to end in acceptance for this man. Without Grace there would be no hope for any of us, so I choose Grace and Peace....
I know many of you who read this may not understand where I'm at in life, and that's fine:)....It's taken me Seven years to come to this place....But I will just leave you with this... God has delivered me from a deep seeded Bitterness and Anger, that I didn't want to let go of...It was my protection:(...I only desire this one thing; "His will" for myself and my wife....But, I must accept that I can only seek him for myself, And I must not think I can ever know the mind of God...So I can never allow myself to walk the road of a victim or in bitterness again....And now all my expectations are directed to the one who is able....Why should I be so disappointed when I should be living everyday in him...which is a life filled w/ Joy and all the fruits of Jesus....
This all any wise husband wants in a wife:)...An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain. She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life....
And I would guess this is what most wise women want in a husband....at least my wife quotes this to me;)....husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
Blessings C
You are a good man
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
Without making this a religious forum, we all have that "thing" that keeps us with our ADHD spouse, be it God, finances or fear of the unknown. For me, I am still with my husband due to the strength beyond what is normal from God and knowing that he is the bottler of tears and knows what we each need, even what my husband needs because I know that he wishes his life were different too. I know that when he sees me sad or depressed he knows it's his fault. All I/we can do is have reliance that God knows what we need and that life can change in an instant. Not many will feel the same since there are some that don't believe in God so this many not help everyone but it is what has kept me around. If I were an atheist, I would have no issue leaving, ok, maybe some issue since I would still be me and a nurturer, but the accountability to a higher force keeps me faithful and gives me that endurance. All we can try to do, if there is no unbearable abuse, is be that Proverbial spouse that does their best and has good qualities even though our ADHD spouse doesn't come close to those qualities for whatever reason, imagined or real. Now, if my husband's temper gets out of hand, as it was for 25 yrs until I finally left the house in March of this year, I will leave again since NO ONE deserves to deal with emotional abuse that tears them apart while they deny its emotional abuse and reject help. I get you completely though.
Right
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
You "get" it.
Once we stop having any expectations, we lose ourselves. Our children lose what a family should be. And, my H has "won". And I won't let him win.
Yes, we have to lower our expectations to some degree. Our mates are damaged, in some cases, severely damaged, but to have little or no expectations is what gets people into these situations to begin with. We see this here in this forum. People will post about their partners who are already showing horrific signs of abuse, yet these people have lowered their expectations to a level that they're still considering marrying them.
It's bad enough that those of us who were "fooled" by spouses who kept 99% of their ugliness under wraps until after the "I do's". We had expectations. We would not have married these people if they had shown their true colors while dating.
After we had been married for 4 years, and our first child was about 6 months old, we were over at some friends' home. (This was a time when we could socialize with couples...before H became too unpredictable with others). However, this was the beginning of the end. The wife, who is about 15 years older than we are, mentioned something about watching a particular TV program every night. H launched into her, attacking her for watching and enjoying that show. I had never seen him behave that way. It was truly shocking. This was in THEIR home. Not that it would have been ok in our home, but here he was, a guest in their home acting this way! Needless to say, we never saw that couple again.
I promise you, if H had displayed that behavior when we were dating, we would never have been married. I dumped guys for less than that.
It is not unreasonable for me to have an expectation that H will behave in someone's home. It got worse after that. Once in his sister's home, he totally started raging at her for NO GOOD REASON. His sister had done nothing wrong. Her husband had to order H out of their home! This was after we had been married for 6 years. Again, none of this occurred while we were dating.
As Rosered says, we aren't wrong for having modest expectations. We aren't asking for too much. Just some normalcy. Just some.
Fooled by spouse
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
That is sooooo true. We dated 1.5 years and the only thing I saw was that he was clown-like and hyper, I never saw his temper or his self-abusive behavior. Once we got married, he revealed his true self since he was comfortable. It's terrible when you think that someone can feel so comfortable with you that now they can let it all hang out and destroy someone else's peace and their idea of what they dreamed a marriage would be. I told my husband I felt duped and he didn't ask my permission to "be himself". He knew my past, that I grew up with an angry father who yelled and screamed and beat my Mom, never us kids, nonetheless I grew up anxious and when Dad left us when I was 8 yrs old, I was so happy and life was awesome. Enter my new husband, who thinks the world of me since I bring him a measure of peace, I am the voice of logic, I calm him and he is head over heels...until we married and he let me see it all. So weird, he didn't even let it out gradually, it was like a week after I realized, holy crap, this is not good. Nothing I said, no tears I cried could calm him. How can you treat me like a goddess and do everything I ask while dating then pull this machismo angry behavior our once you have me? Wild huh? But now, I assert myself and he know that I am not 17 anymore, but almost 43 and he knows that I will leave if things get out of control again.
Expectations, Boundaries, And Crazy Reality.....
Submitted by kellyj on
where nothing makes sense anymore? How about....playing by a different set of rules that are constantly changing but there never seems to be any explanation or rule book to follow in the first place? (and none given when you ask....only angry defense and projection. How dare you...right? This the part about never committing to anything so you will never know yourself and they can control any situation and never appear as wrong if questioned about) How about....in every case....there seems to be a consistent, inconsistency (and seeming hypocrisy) that the other person appears to be playing both sides of the fence (never commiting to one side or the other) to fit the situation but you are Never allowed this courtesy even if you wanted to.....which you wouldn't do anyway (and don't want to start doing just because they are in order to somehow gain SOME standard to follow even if it's not any one that you should follow in the first place?) since this is not something that most people would normally do in order to fair or even reasonable. How about (seemingly?) many expectations placed on you (and lots of boundaries, booby traps and invisible trip wires set up all over the place) that you would not expect but suddenly find you are standing in a mine field that you had no idea you walking into.
But Heaven forbid.....you try doing this with them. If you try any of these things with them......you are immediately called out for it and blamed for being the exact same person that you are trying so hard not to be but are sometimes forced or pulled into the same behavior yourself just to get a foot into the door and get what is left on the floor after this person runs rough shod over you and grabs everything in the room and then makes a mad dash for the door before you have even had a chance to stop spinning and regain your senses. By that time.....it's too late.
Sound familiar? No matter which way you slice this.....or which version or variation you want to use (each and every person like this you could choose to with and their own personal style of playing this out) it ends up being the exact same thing for you. Having too many expectations or boundaries for yourself is the least of your concerns if this is the case.
This is a very specific kind of behavior and is NOT the norm! (is not normal lol ) If this is the world you are in.....all bets are off. Applying NORMAL reasoning and normal expectations to this equation will only frustrate you and make you crazy. A person like this is not doing this on purpose (with cognizant intention)...but none the less......this is what they are doing and trying to tell them this or reason with them about these facts is not only a waste of time but will ultimately create even more problems for you at a later date. Exposing them is the worst thing you can do!!!
This is not ADHD and it is abusive! That's how I see it at the very least. If someone wants to tell me that most people with ADHD are like this then I would have to believe them because I sincerely don't know if that is absolutely true either (the % of folks with ADHD who are like this and have this tendency....or not?) I suspect however....it is not from what I know. Thinking possibly only a higher % from the mean in the general public ( I suspect )but maybe only a few % points more if that is the case?) Just one man's opinion here.
J
Only To ADD To My Last Post
Submitted by kellyj on
too many boundaries or expectations are not the problem if this is your situation. Having rock solid, impenetrable and unmovable boundaries yourself ..... and knowing exactly what they are..... (not needing more of them........) is what is required to successfully navigate this kind of situation. Again....IMHO:)
J
Making up their own reality as the need arises....
Submitted by c ur self on
There isn't enough memory recall for the amount of boundaries needed to deal with people who make it up as they go...Their sensational desire to Control everyone and every aspect of living and to have an excuse for themselves when they clearly have gotten caught with their hand in the cookie Jar....You just have to give a shit J....Sorry for the stark reality comment....
I Think We Are Saying the Same Thing......
Submitted by kellyj on
once again ....just worded differently?) YES! There are not enough boundaries and situations in a lifetime that will prepare you for all the disembodied accusations, anger, projection, magical thinking and complete and utter fabrications of reality that a person like this will come up to fit the moment or their moods. That's why it is imperative that you have rock solid boundaries yourself. They will try and put all of this on you in a tidal wave of destructive, ever changing force in volumes that equal this reference....no boundaries for their own ambiguous and amorphous behavior yet.....trying to impose a multitude of boundaries place onto you (that you are supposed to abide by.....or else) and have none of your own they have to respect or consider.
That's why you have to be like the Rock of Gibraltar and have boundaries as stead fast and immovable as that in order not to have this tidal wave wash you over and pull you out to sea with the tides.
I don't understand where giving a shit plays into this? If you mean that having well defined boundaries means walling yourself off and keeping everything and everybody out.....that's not what I am saying. It just means that if you don't have good boundaries yourself......this phenomenon will bowl you over and you will be left rather defenseless and vulnerable without being able to say " hey....you just stepped over the line." and let them know this fact. That doesn't mean they won't do it.....but at least you have said so assuming it and you are reasonable and a reasonable person. That will force, the other person to at the very least... to contend with your boundaries on some level. Without boundaries like I am saying.....a person like this (whether by intention or not)....will take advantage of the door being left wide open and walk right through (and all over the place and you) without any constraints or inhibitions to stop them in the first place.
Again....I don't understand where not caring (or giving a shit) comes into play here? This is actually about caring and giving a shit to a great deal for yourself and the other person at the same time......not just for their sake. It means you give a shit about yourself enough not to let someone else do this with you and telling them so straight to their face it they are crossing your boundaries. All I am saying is....you have to know what that they are in the first place....and be able to articulate this to another person in a very clear and unmistaken way that says "it is not Okay if you do this and here's the reason why." And once you do and they keep doing it....calling them out in the same clear and unmistakable way that says " nothing has changed from the last time I told you not to do this and it will not change the next time but I like it even less now that you know this since you repeatedly keep crossing my boundaries despite the fact that I have asked you not to."
In the sense we are talking about (not the norm..... with someone who disallows any boundaries for you) I strongly believe that this somewhat overcompensation of what you would normally not have to do with most people......it a critical requirement based of individuals of this nature.
You aren't giving up or compromising you own ability to care of shut down and withdraw....to the contrary. You retain your self and who you are and compromise nothing of your self (in this perfect scenario).....and instead of using these defensive maladaptive strategies yourself as a means to deal with a person like this.....you are meeting the head on at the gate and not letting them pass without the proper respect for what is inside them first (up front and without compromise)....so they know the rules and where YOUR boundaries are and where NOT to step. At this point.....you have done all you can do. It doesn't mean you are trying to control them and/or you are being rigid......that would only happen if you boundaries themselves create this kind of situation for them and are not reasonable.(or too many)
Call this what you will but it's letting the other person know exactly what YOUR rules are (unlike theirs) and are ones that are not going to change with each and every situations and be consistent (unlike theirs) and the lines are clearly drawn in big Neon colors that they cannot be over looked or ignored.(unlike what they do with you).
J
The comment....It was my frustrations...I opoligize....
Submitted by c ur self on
It wasn't directed at you, my wife or anyone in particular, of course I think you know that...It's just a generalization directed at people (any of us) who want to make marriage a competition instead of safe place where love abounds....But, as I was typing this, the stark truth hit me in the face....Because we all have different minds, hearts, pasts, and DNA we will always be unique in our ability to Love...And even in our ability to define Love.
I think the reason I suffer so much in my mind is because after living 30 years with the beauty of love and trust being a finished product in my life....I miss it! LOL....But, my memory isn't that bad..If I'm honest with myself, you know, the stuff we hate:) I can remember all the growing pains in the first 7 or so years with my first wife...So I guess in my naive imagination, I thought I could just wade in there and find it again....How hard could it be, I was Pro....Oh me:(...Oh, was I wrong..:)....So, it's just a little depressing at times....But, reality is teaching me again nothing in this life comes easy, and if it does, run!...Throw in; should I say it? Na...Anyway, I just have my days....Ha Ha...
So we set boundaries to protect our rights....We set boundaries in hopes our Spouses will respect them:)...We set boundaries to save our lives from the person who Vowed to love us till death we do we part....I guess this is how it works....What a wonder life!
C
No Need To Apologize
Submitted by kellyj on
As, always...I am genuinely curious. The only way to learn anything new is to have someone else tell you what you are not seeing? That is how I took it my friend. No worries:)
J
thank you
Submitted by Being_me on
Hi J
Reading your 'secret' rule book to this ever changing game feels very liberating to me.
My partner, boyfriend doesn't sound right after +20 yrs. No offence intended to those who still have faith in the getting married, but for me personally, I don't need a ring on my finger to show my loyalty and devotion to my man. Perhaps you can share me your copy and you can have mine? ;) he has these weird unwritten/unspoken rules as well.
One of his favourite lines he likes to use very often is "are you doing this deliberately to f*** with my mind?!". (Swearing is also a bad habbit to emphasize additional power to the words).
Like we (partners of ADD/ADHD people) really get up every morning with one intention only on our mind; to mess up your day. Such audacity/arrogancy also never stops to amaze me.
They often talk about the 7 yrs itch, well this itch is starting to turn into an ugly rash and I would like to have a strong cream for it. Only recently i started reading up on all the topics about being in a relationship with an ADD/ADHD but does it sound selfish to you fellow non-ADD/ADHD to not want to listen or see it from their point of view anymore? And that you want to be very selfish and for once think if your own nweds first? I often wonder how much of me is 'copy his behaviour' and which actions and interactions are truly mine.
Thank you again J for your rulebook, I feel very much supported by your words knowing am not the only one being given a 'special' gift that was not on my Santa list. ;)
M.
My h says the same thing...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<
One of his favourite lines he likes to use very often is "are you doing this deliberately to f*** with my mind?!". (Swearing is also a bad habbit to emphasize additional power to the words).
Like we (partners of ADD/ADHD people) really get up every morning with one intention only on our mind; to mess up your day. Such audacity/arrogancy also never stops to amaze me.
>>
My h will say, "You're just doing those things to frustrate me." Uh, no.
There is no way that anyone wants to try to upset him because he's too outrageous when he is upset. Our children have even told their dad that there is no way that I (or anyone) would "try to frustrate" him.
It's just that so many things DO frustrate h.
Recently, I have been leaving as soon as he starts raging. That's a boundary of mine. I do it to mentally protect myself. The fact that it upsets h is not the main goal. Yes, he is "frustrated" that he can't rage at me if I'm not there, but that's not why I leave. If I died tonight, and he was frustrated that he couldn't rage at me anymore, I didn't die just to frustrate him. lol
LOL ;)
Submitted by kellyj on
If I died tonight, and he was frustrated that he couldn't rage at me anymore, I didn't die just to frustrate him. lol
good one:)
happy
Submitted by Being_me on
I cannot express enough how happy I am to have found people who are equally 'blessed' with this gift that keeps on giving us a mental roller coaster experience. Thank you.
not to taunt faith or the gods, but if only we could have a sneak preview on those thoughts, like with Christmas carol eh eh eh wonder how H facial expression be like. He'd probably find another pity full reason for thinking the world evolves around him instead of the sun. And he is even more so the 'victim' thus in his mind you 'technically murdered' him. Would love to see this turn into a csi episode. :)
I wish for all of us partners to never loose faith nor sanity and be blessed with people like you and J, where we can find support and find light in our hearts again.
huggies
M
Rule Number One
Submitted by kellyj on
None of what you see has anything to do with you. lol That's probably the best rule you can apply to what you see in your own ability not to take these things personally because they really aren't. I know that goes contrary to everything that you feel at the time but it is closer to reality than it sounds. What you said about "how much of me is copying his behavior is also very intuitive I think. If you begin to question this or feel like you are no longer able to tell the difference in yourself....I think that's the time to regroup and think about this for a while. I want to include this in my next post since I have come to some realizations just recently that I want to share here that I think might help others too. I'm glad that some my own thoughts and ideas can be useful for you. As much as it's helpful for you....it is equally helpful for me to write these things down and collect my thoughts with some other motivation than to do it just for myself. (which I won't do otherwise....writing it down that is ha ha). Thanks for the feedback to keep me motivated.......much appreciated.
PS.....writing all of these things down has really helped me in communicating with my wife. I'm beginning to see the pay off with her as well:)
J
Can something be Truth and BS at the same time...LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
(None of what you see has anything to do with you. lol That's probably the best rule you can apply to what you see in your own ability not to take these things personally because they really aren't.)
There's still a cost to accepting this rule:))....My wife when calm would tell you she loves me....She has sent me cards that touch me deeply....She found in me a person who was disciplined, strong, and wasn't offended or distracted by the mundane things of life, something she has never mastered....All she wrote in on our first Anniversary Card was....I love you, You have Changed me Life!
So J, rule number one is correct, and I love my wife, and my wife loves me.... But, how do I separate the noun "effect "or consequences from the first part of your rule?....Has nothing to do with you?
I do like your rule though J...It's short, and a great self-awareness tool to help me separate our realities...And, on a good day, it may even lead me to walk away silently in prayer....
C
blessed the patient one
Submitted by Being_me on
Hi J, I will try and apply rule no 1. But I am a bit headstrong and I already feel a strong urge of sabotage rising from my inner core...you know the 'great now I need to be the 'smart one' again' feeling on top of the other things you keep in line whilst you try to keep the relationship from heading straight into the next emo collision. Perhaps I am not that far yet, and only just begun to walk the road of 'now what?' Plus I realized that my emotional themometer has burst so I am a bit like a captain at sea without a engine trying to keep the crew and myself from attacking each other. So, hope you will write many more 'give me strength' words until I can figure out what to do with my boat and what the direction we will be taking.
M